I was wrong
I am sorry
Please forgive me
I made a mistake in judgement
I am not infallible
I need God to help me as much as you do
Please pray for me
I was deceived
I was unforgiving
I rarely pray and my heart is cold
I love money
What strength is in never admitting wrong or even sin?
Christian leaders are just as susceptible to the same weaknesses as ordinary Christians.
So how are you ministering to the minister?
That's because they never are wrong Frank! :)
Seriously though, I have heard a few and have seen some humble leaders.
I wonder if this is not also one of the symptoms of our current church system and the Man of God syndrome?
William
Of course there are some humble leaders. Met one once many years ago
in a far, far away place. He was almost invisible.
And absolutely we are in the mighty man of religion phase or has it aways been that way. Perhaps we could enquire of Hymenaeus and Alexander.
Perhaps it would be better to pray fervently for these leaders than to undermine their standing before others.
In Christ,
Psalm 127: 1
Unless the LORD builds the house, those who build it labor in vain. Unless the LORD watches over the city, the watchman stays awake in vain.
Frank,
Have you considered becoming a christian leader, that way you can teach us all how it ought to be done!
Whadaya say?
no satan
I was wrong
I am sorry
Please forgive me
I made a mistake in judgement
I am not infallible
I need God to help me as much as you do
Please pray for me
I was deceived
I was unforgiving
I rarely pray and my heart is cold
I love money
Of course I could easily put myself in all these categories and have admitted my failures many times. I was actually thinking of writing a short devotional thought on the area of "I was wrong" stating that many times I have thought myself right in a situation when I found out I was wrong. Also at times doctrines I held or traditions in a Church that I found where not Biblical or an over-emphasis.
It does take humility and in the end the grace of God for anyone, perhaps especially a Christian leader of any type to change and admit failure in areas of leadership.
One thing I have also learned and hear from brothers is that it is impossible to please everyone all the time and in the end the Lord Himself must be the One we seek to please. That does not excuse hurting anyone on purpose, something I never desire to do.
i am no leader except in my own home.
I can work through these a lot more than I do.
I was wrong---so many times today.
I am sorry---I wish sorrow was more of a work in my heart than a word in my mouth.
Please forgive me---if anyone knew my heart and mind like they do my outward self, they would want me dead. I am an abject sinner and I take advantage of people on a daily basis.
I made a mistake in judgement---those usually start 3 minutes after I wake up.
I am not infallible --- I am not even "ible".
I need God to help me as much as you do --- more, probably. Why would you even listen to me?
Please pray for me --- I need Him.
I was deceived --- by my own heart.
I was unforgiving --- and petted my peeves and stroked my ego at someone else's expense.
I rarely pray and my heart is cold --- and too often I am rote and dishonest before God on many levels and like to pretend I am sincere.
I love money --- and sometimes I know I hate those who do not pull of faking their holiness about it as well as me.
Lord, help.
Why pick on leaders instead of examine ourselves first, especially on this forum?
Will those without sin alone please stand up !
....so we can cast that lying spirit out of you!... :)
Leaders in the body of Christ are held to a much higher standard.
--
1 Timothy 3:1-13 New International Version (NIV)
Qualifications for Overseers and Deacons
3 Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. 2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full[a] respect. 5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?) 6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7 He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap.
8 In the same way, deacons[b] are to be worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. 9 They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons.
11 In the same way, the women[c] are to be worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything.
12 A deacon must be faithful to his wife and must manage his children and his household well. 13 Those who have served well gain an excellent standing and great assurance in their faith in Christ Jesus.
Tim/Dolfan
Those are good, well thought out add ons you added. Maybe we could write a book!
Frank, it would be a confession the likes of which I don't think anyone would be helped by it. :)
I recently asked a rep of a famous, well regarded church group regarding a speaker they had in their pulpit who was of a dubious character. I did point out some of the issues regarding the speaker on their Facebook page,
Instead of dealing with the issue (they did not disagree with me) they pulled the comments after 5 days and the post disappeared.
So I emailed them regarding this.
The response was: What would the congregants think of the leadership if they had admitted having this man speak was a mistake . So instead of dealing with the mistake they simply removed the post. Humility would of done them good rather than coverup.
Quote: "Leaders in the body of Christ are held to a much higher standard."
Yes but Why do we look at the speck in our leader's eye, but fail to notice the beam in our own eyes?
Maybe because some of us do not pretend to be the mighty and untouchable , infallible "special" servants of the Lord .
EDIT: I have been shown the log of bitterness in my own eye. Frank, I ask you to pray for me.
Frank,
Your tone is very accusative. In other people who speak about leaders with a similar tone, I have found that they are harboring unforgiveness or jealousy. A recent example continually harps on a brother who has faithfully served for decades but has acknowledged error he has fallen into over the years and repented. The harper himself is backslidden and full of jealousy because no one has acknowledged him in addition to all the theological error he holds. I'm not saying this is you. The reason I brought this up is because they way your writing comes across is very bitter. As it is written in Hebrews:
Hebrews 12:14-15 KJV
[14] Follow peace with all men , and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: [15] Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you , and thereby many be defiled;
If this is not your condition, let's clarify it and set it aside.
Jeremy221 wrote,
"Frank,
Your tone is very accusative. In other people who speak about leaders with a similar tone, I have found that they are harboring unforgiveness or jealousy."
Jeremy221,
You've discerned correctly! This is not an isolated post from him, some of his other posts are similar.
Take note, he never did reply to clarify, as you requested.
Jeremy221
I do forgive you and you have always been a good one in my books.
Regarding the post.
Greg and a few others correctly led by the Holy Spirit discerned my motivation and replied accordingly to this post. Greg himself published his own new post a few days later primarily mirroring what I wrote initially. Good on him for hearing from the Lord and admitting what he felt was what the Lord was correcting him with, Now that is rare leader indeed and only increased his standing with many.
Humility always elevates, pride always denigrates.
The very religious void of understanding also replied accordingly using the accusatory methodologies their commander teaches them.
Do you know Carmine ?
Who is/was Carmine? Was he a member on SI who went by Rev____
Note that Frank edited his last post to lessen the directness and sharpness of his accusatory dagger.
But his other post in this thread he hasn't edited. That dagger still has his name on it as evidence against him.
RE : /// Who is/was Carmine? Was he a member on SI who went by Rev____///
Yes,
Carmine (Rev_Enue) from Toronto is the one that I am asking about.
add : for clarity
Are you thinking that maybe Frank is Carmine's middle name?
After all, he's only been a member for about 2 months, and he says that Jeremy221 has always been a good one in his book.
Hmmmmm...sounds like he may have been around for a bit longer than just 2 months.
Greg wrote:
"It does take humility and in the end the grace of God for anyone, perhaps especially a Christian leader of any type to change and admit failure in areas of leadership. "
If it's not pride that stops christians from admitting fault then what is it?
FrankLira
Could you please answer this simple question : Do you know Carmine ?
///Saved and born from above by the grace of God\t
Name is Frank I am a Christian saved and born from above by the grace of God, Jesus Christ is the Son of God and he is my Lord and Saviour. Hope to fellowship with the saints here.
Psalm 84: 11 For the Lord God is a sun and shield; he bestows favour and honour.
No good thing does the Lord withhold from those who walk uprightly.///
Brothers does the above intro post from Frank sound like Carmon? I read Frank's post and they sound like they come from a heart of grace. Those of us who remember Carmen in this forum.......well you remember what his posts were like. I dont't pick that up with this brother.
-bbs-
Lets leave all accusations out and allow frank to answer my question.
I will explain the reasons for my question after he answers.
"...well you remember what his posts were like. I dont't pick that up with this brother."
Blaine, have you read every post (64 in all) he's written?
Brother there was no accusation in my post. Merely an observation. But I am courious as to your hostility toward this brother.
-bbs-
I looked for hostility toward Frank from PP, but found none.
Tell me Blaine, have you seen hostility toward anyone in any of Frank's posts?
RE : ///Brother there was no accusation in my post.///
I was implying that as a whole group lets not bring accusations against frank, lets simply wait for his response to my question.
Brother Blaine
Thank you for you kindness, God bless you. The Lord knows those who are his and it's obvious you are one of them. Read quite of few of your posts regarding the persecuted brethren and it is an encouragement to see your heartfelt concern and the much needed reminder to bring them before the Lord regularly.
///I was implying that as a whole group lets not bring accusations against frank, lets simply wait for his response to my question.///
Brother I sincerely and humbly apologize for inferring hostility in your post. I did not understand the intent of your question. Again I posted too hastily and I apologize.
And no I have not detected any hostility in Frank's post. Those I have read of brother Frank have always been conciliatory. At least from my from my perspective.
Bro Blaine
///Brother Blaine
Thank you for you kindness, God bless you. The Lord knows those who are his and it's obvious you are one of them. Read quite of few of your posts regarding the persecuted brethren and it is an encouragement to see your heartfelt concern and the much needed reminder to bring them before the Lord regularly.///
You are most welcome my brother.
-bbs-
Brothers personally I do not believe that brother Frank is Carmine. At least not the Carmine we remember from this forum. I read Frank's posts and see that they are conciliatory and full of grace. If this is Carmine then he has undergone a heart change.
At this point I will accept the brother as brother Frank. And leave it at that.
Thus I will exit this thread.
-bbs-
Blaine,
You say,
"I read Frank's posts and see that they are conciliatory and full of grace."
All you'd have to do is read all of his posts in this thread alone, and when you do, tell me if you still stand by your statement above.
Brother Greg These individuals are out of order in this forum with their incessant inquisition speculating about my name when they do not even disclose their real names as I have, What hypocrisy. The accusatory venom they are spouting in this very public forum proves the content of what I originally posted. Surely this not the typical behaviour that genuine christians model in online communities.
It's quite apparent that a serious mental (or demonic) disorder being manifested here. Thank you for your consideration.
Brother Greg These individuals are out of order in this forum with their incessant inquisition speculating about my name when they do not even disclose their real names as I have, What hypocrisy. The accusatory venom they are spouting in this very public forum proves the content of what I originally posted. Surely this not the typical behaviour that genuine christians model in online communities.
Saints,
We have allowed this thread to continue and it has showed a lack of restraint in many cases of believers communications. These forums are not in-person and we cannot assume or try others motives, we just need to see to "edify" as that is Paul the Apostles cry in 1 Corinthians chapter 12. And the next chapter is having "love". Even if we are doctrinally right but do not have love in the midst of it we can be very wrong.
If you disagree with a brother or sister it is better you pray to the Lord about it instead of accusing by name. We can gracefully share our position or a scripture verse but to use words to hurt is a mis-use of our ability the Lord gives to communicate.
In the guidelines for the forums:
5. SPEAKING WITH GENTLENESS - Having mercy, gentleness, and meekness in our posts on the forums is not only good it is needful. Especially when there is not a face to face conversation one cannot understand a person's tone well so be extra careful to show forth your tone to people in the posts and try to ensure you are not accusing, or speaking angrily against another but adding positive affirmations and kindness into your posts. This will help to not give the devil any opportunity to bring division (Ephesians 4:27). For division, backbiting and sectarianism is carnality and we are not walking in the Spirit when doing so (Jude 1:19).
7. SLANDERING OTHERS - We have a zero tolerance on slander, evil-speaking and speaking against a person's character without warrant. 'Slander no one.' / 'to malign no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing every consideration for all men.' NASB (Titus 3:2). This is a very important biblical principle and we ask that you would especially respect the biblical method of approaching a brother privately (Matthew 18:15). Also there are hundreds of websites in the internet that exclusively post wrong teachings, errors and question the character of Christians, we do not want SermonIndex to be seen as such a ministry and ask that all forum members do not participate in posting in what is wrong. We believe simply that truth dispels errors and to focus on the truth will shine a light into all the darkness.
Let us go forward with meekness towards each other and having in mind the larger picture of the entire body of Christ. "I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought." (1 Corinthians 1:10).
this thread is locked.
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