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Christmas - Why December 25?

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sermonindex

It's very tough for us North Americans to imagine Mary and Joseph trudging to Bethlehem in anything but, as Christina Rosetti memorably described it, "the bleak mid-winter," surrounded by "snow on snow on snow." To us, Christmas and December are inseparable. But for the first three centuries of Christianity, Christmas wasn't in December””or on the calendar anywhere.

If observed at all, the celebration of Christ's birth was usually lumped in with Epiphany (January 6), one of the church's earliest established feasts. Some church leaders even opposed the idea of a birth celebration. Origen (c.185-c.254) preached that it would be wrong to honor Christ in the same way Pharaoh and Herod were honored. Birthdays were for pagan gods.

Not all of Origen's contemporaries agreed that Christ's birthday shouldn't be celebrated, and some began to speculate on the date (actual records were apparently long lost). Clement of Alexandria (c.150-c.215) favored May 20 but noted that others had argued for April 18, April 19, and May 28. Hippolytus (c.170-c.236) championed January 2. November 17, November 20, and March 25 all had backers as well. A Latin treatise written around 243 pegged March 21, because that was believed to be the date on which God created the sun. Polycarp (c.69-c.155) had followed the same line of reasoning to conclude that Christ's birth and baptism most likely occurred on Wednesday, because the sun was created on the fourth day.

The eventual choice of December 25, made perhaps as early as 273, reflects a convergence of Origen's concern about pagan gods and the church's identification of God's son with the celestial sun. December 25 already hosted two other related festivals: natalis solis invicti (the Roman "birth of the unconquered sun"), and the birthday of Mithras, the Iranian "Sun of Righteousness" whose worship was popular with Roman soldiers. The winter solstice, another celebration of the sun, fell just a few days earlier. Seeing that pagans were already exalting deities with some parallels to the true deity, church leaders decided to commandeer the date and introduce a new festival.

Western Christians first celebrated Christmas on December 25 in 336, after Emperor Constantine had declared Christianity the empire's favored religion. Eastern churches, however, held on to January 6 as the date for Christ's birth and his baptism. Most easterners eventually adopted December 25, celebrating Christ's birth on the earlier date and his baptism on the latter, but the Armenian church celebrates his birth on January 6. Incidentally, the Western church does celebrate Epiphany on January 6, but as the arrival date of the Magi rather than as the date of Christ's baptism.

Another wrinkle was added in the sixteenth century when Pope Gregory devised a new calendar, which was unevenly adopted. The Eastern Orthodox and some Protestants retained the Julian calendar, which meant they celebrated Christmas 13 days later than their Gregorian counterparts. Most””but not all””of the Christian world now agrees on the Gregorian calendar and the December 25 date.

The pagan origins of the Christmas date, as well as pagan origins for many Christmas customs (gift-giving and merrymaking from Roman Saturnalia; greenery, lights, and charity from the Roman New Year; Yule logs and various foods from Teutonic feasts), have always fueled arguments against the holiday. "It's just paganism wrapped with a Christian bow," naysayers argue. But while kowtowing to worldliness must always be a concern for Christians, the church has generally viewed efforts to reshape culture””including holidays””positively. As a theologian asserted in 320, "We hold this day holy, not like the pagans because of the birth of the sun, but because of him who made it."

from: http://www.christianitytoday.com/history/2008/august/why-december-25.html

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TMK

I for one like Christmas right where it is.

I will be the first to admit that I am a Christmas fanatic. There is very little I don’t like about the Christmas season- except blow-up lawn décor (no offense intended). I will watch about every type of Christmas program unless Muppets are in it (except for Emmett Otter’s Jug Band Christmas- a classic which really isn’t Muppets). I have every Christmas song ever recorded, unless it’s by some modern pop person like Katie Perry or Bruno Mars. I like everything to do with holiday baking and cooking, and every year I say I will make the old-fashioned steamed Christmas pudding (like in The Christmas Carol) that will actually taste good. Miracles do happen.

But I have to be careful, because Christmas is not a thing about itself; it is about a Person. So I need to ask myself””why am I making this peanut brittle? Why am I buying this gift? Why am I watching "A Charlie Brown Christmas” for the 50th time (at least?). Why am I hanging these lights on my house?

I think we can do these things and keep it about a Person””but we have to be intentional about it. We have to be thinking about The Person””a lot. I mean all the time, way more that we usually do. If we think about this Person, and let Him permeate our being, everything we do””including making that 10th batch of cookies- can be done for His glory.

Have you ever been so very excited about something- perhaps good news, perhaps an awesome answer to prayer, when you are so overjoyed that you feel like getting up and running around the house? Sometimes it is hard to contain our joy within ourselves. Christmas should be like that. We should be so overjoyed about this Person who was born in Bethlehem so long ago that the joy just has to pour out of us in many different ways””whether it’s buying someone a crockpot for a gift or building a snowman. But we have to MAKE these things be about a Person””not just "something to do.” Like the Grinch realized””"Maybe Christmas doesn’t come from a store. Maybe Christmas… perhaps… means a little bit more.” It does indeed. But if we are going to the store BECAUSE of the "little bit more,” (Dr. Seuss was a master at understatement) then we can truly experience the peace and the joy that this season so often promises but often, sadly, fails to deliver.

So, this Christmas season, let’s be intentional about keeping this Person, who is, after all, what this season is all about, in the forefront of our minds. Don’t feel guilty about spending a tad too much on gifts, or for eating way too much fruitcake, or watching a sappy, sentimental Hallmark Christmas movie. Just remember why you are doing it””or perhaps why you SHOULD be doing it!

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SugarRun

Why has Christmas become what it is today?


David Pawson begins to answer this question at the 14 minute mark, telling of the origins of the tree, Santa, Saint Nickolas, gift giving etc.


He will return to the spiritual side and prove by scripture and mathematics with certainty the month of Jesus birth.


As usual Pastor Pawson is very informative and extremely interesting. He gives details that we may just brush aside without a thought. Worth your time to listen. eileen


https://youtu.be/HNbJoihr5gM

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savannah


David Pawson on Christmas -

Part 1 -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqwxP4hJSzE

Part 2 -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pJZnDamlnk

Part 3 -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkPhDaH7IJM

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TMK

"If I could work my will," said Scrooge indignantly, "every idiot who goes about with 'Merry Christmas' on his lips, should be boiled with his own pudding, and buried with a stake of holly through his heart." ~Charles Dickens, A Christmas Carol

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savannah


To say "Merry Christmas" is equal to saying "Happy Hanukkah."

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TMK

If the quote fits...

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jstrang

I too, both personally and as our family, have convictions that we do and do not do as "traditional holidays" come and go. For us, we try to always remember (and trust me it has been a sanctifying process to think and act in such ways) that we must be obedient to God personally (James 4:17). We must always remember, I do not know who truly is born again, who is not; I do not know where some is in their sanctification with God; I do not know what someones knowledge level and experiences have been.

With this said, it is always best regarding specifics of worship, celebration, etc., to keep these things afresh in the mind, and then ask myself, "Do I really, I mean really, love others?" For if I do, I will pray, seek God's will in how, when and where I may be able to share with those of the church, those I am in daily community and those who I do not know in the public. Then specifics not pertaining directly with salvation can be rightly discussed with those who have yet to hear and understand just how far from the centrality of Christ we have become. May we all be the witness God has called us to be, in humility, love and a contrite heart.

I must not leave the "simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ. (2 Corinthians 11:3) Amen.

Jeremy

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savannah


If December 25th came around twice or thrice each year, debt and suicide would double or triple every year.

But...at least many others would get what they really didn't need, and others would get what they wanted, and there would also be lots of money made entertaining the masses!

It's the most wonderfully indulgent time... Of the year!

Tis the season to be indulgent!

And it's that good, acceptable and pleasing will of God... according to many, who'd like us to be convinced of the same.

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TMK

"There are many things from which I might have derived good by which I have not profited, I dare say," returned the nephew, "Christmas among the rest. But I am sure I have always thought of Christmas-time, when it has come round-apart from the veneration due to its sacred name and origin, if anything belonging to it can be apart from that-as a good time; a kind, forgiving, charitable, pleasant time; the only time I know of, in the long calendar of the year, when men and women seem by one consent to open their shut-up hearts freely, and to think of people below them as if they really were fellow-passengers to the grave, and not another race of creatures bound on other journeys. And therefore, uncle, though it has never put a scrap of gold or silver in my pocket, I believe that it has done me good, and will do me good; and I say, God bless it!"

- Charles Dickens, A Christmas Carol. Speech by Scrooge's nephew, Fred.

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savannah

Re: Dickens' quote


"There are many things from which I might have derived good by which I have not profited,...Christmas among the rest...I believe that it has done me good, and will do me good;"

No Gospel! No God! No Lord Jesus Christ! No repentance! No faith! No salvation!

Just an entertaining movie about me, myself and I!

Just more evidence of the truth of what I wrote in my last post.

But, like the commercial used to say about some "I want my MTV!", so, many others will continue to say, "I want my Christmas!"

But Jesus is still saying, "Unless you deny your Self, take up your cross daily, and follow Me, you cannot be My disciple."

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TMK

You are hilarious!

Now if you excuse me I have to water the Christmas tree. It's still drinking away.

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Lysa

by savannah
But Jesus is still saying, "Unless you deny your Self, take up your cross daily, and follow Me, you cannot be My disciple."

Are you alluding that if a Christian celebrates (what you called) the most 'indulgent' time of the year that they cannot be Christ's disciple?

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MrBillPro

No one knows the real birthday of Jesus! No date is given in the Bible. Back many, many years ago, someone decided to celebrate Christ's birth on December 25. Some folks get to carried away and have to dissect everything, it's just a day that most choose to celebrate the birth of Christ. If we found a new born child somehow, maybe during war, or someone just left somewhere, because they did not want the child. Maybe we were able to adopt that child, but we did not know the birth date of that child, would we still set a day we would celebrate the child's birthday? I know I would, and I would not have to spend thousands of dollars, to find any scientific proof of the day the child was born, I would set a date, and be done with it. I celebrate Christ's birthday on December 25, and celebrate Christ everyday, no one is making anyone do the same, so what's the problem?

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savannah

Who can be His disciple? Jesus already answered! No need to add to His Word. His sheep hear His Voice/Spirit speaking.

His Word and His Spirit speaks again,

1 Corinthians 9:24-27

Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. And everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; but I buffet my body and make it my slave, lest possibly, after I have preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.

Jesus put these following words in my mind as I meditated upon Him in prayer and in His Word,

Therefore, let those who are watering their Christmas trees, water their Christmas trees, but you follow me.

1 Corinthians 3:6-9

"I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth. So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth. Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor. For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building."

Put on the whole armor of God!

J
jochbaptist

Why December 25?

To cellebrate a manmade tradition on a day coinciding with a pagan festival, incorporating most of its pagan symbolism and objects. In order to cloud divine mysteries such as God's incarnation, virgin birth and humility, constraining them to a debauched, dying world's consideration for one single day of the year. While thinking they are doing God a favour, some of His less discerning sheep join in, and create more confusion.

That is why.

Mark 7:13 NIV
Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that."

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MrBillPro

jochbaptist In order to cloud divine mysteries such as God's incarnation, virgin birth and humility, constraining them to a debauched, dying world's consideration for one single day of the year. While thinking they are doing God a favour, some of His less discerning sheep join in, and create more confusion.

Guess you're speaking for yourself, I'm not clouded at all. Christmas does none of the above in my life. I will say your attempt at stereotyping, was a fairly good attempt, but not good enough to confuse REAL believers. Have a wonderful day unless you have other plans.

"some of His less discerning sheep join in"
You might want to read:
Ephesians 4 29-32

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savannah


"To cellebrate a manmade tradition on a day..."

Some christians battle for a day, December 25. When we all know that the incarnation is not a day but rather a life.

Christ in us, the hope of glory!

This day will in time, be buried by the syncretism which it began with, and end on the 26th as quickly as it began.

But when Christ was buried, He arose and is alive forevermore.

So, celebrate life Who is our life, not just a day which has no life in it, which men have named Christ-mass.

Q. What will christians in North Korea and other persecuted countries be doing on December 25?

A. The exact same thing they're doing all year!

T
TMK

"Charlie Brown, you're the only person I know who can take a wonderful season like Christmas and turn it into a problem. Maybe Lucy's right. Of all the Charlie Browns in the world, you're the Charlie Browniest." ~Linus Van Pelt

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savannah


Charlie, Linus, and Lucy are the new prophets of the American Church. And the people love it so!


Matthew 20:20-22

and he saith to them, ‘Whose [is] this image and the inscription?’ they say to him, ‘Caesar’s;’ then saith he to them, ‘Render therefore the things of Caesar to Caesar, and the things of God to God;’ and having heard they wondered, and having left him they went away.

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jochbaptist

MrBillPro;, are you disputing the fact that Christmass is a manmade tradition? Please show me any scriptural evidence.

"constraining them to a debauched, dying world's consideration for one single day of the year"
As you can see, I was mentioning the effect on the world, not Christians, who should know better.

Ps. You might want to read the scripture I quoted. And search scripture to see how the Lord dealt with anyone who took the liberty to start observing anyhing not authorized by Him.

As they say: The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Please celebrate Christmas as much as you want. But don't try and squeeze Jesus into it.

S
sermonindex

Charlie, Linus, and Lucy are the new prophets of the American Church. And the people love it so!


Brethren,

We are all entitled to our views on this subject of Christmas as a valid time of celebration of the incarnation of Jesus Christ. The very day of the 25th being good or bad to celebrate.

But one thing is clear, using sarcasm will not help build constructive dialogue and help serve God's people in this area. So we would ask that conversations forward would be serious, loving and share something constructive to help gently guide or give your opinion.

I personally have been of the mind of not celebrating Christmas for many years and even practiced for a few years not to celebrate any special day including holidays, thus I would simply ignore all national and religious holidays and treat each day exactly the same. As a single brother I saw the value in this as focusing on serving the Lord, doing the task I was called to required discipline and obedience. Yet I have noticed clearly there was certainly no boasting in my practice as at times it left me estranged from many brothers and sisters in the Lord and also did not give me time to contemplate seriously the incarnation, crucfixion, ascension of our Lord.

Of course I believe these three things and have thought deeply at times on them, but to be honest with myself I have not spend week long periods deeply mediating on these 3 very important events in human history. We can be so busy in our obeying the Lord that we do not stop and consider again the great cost it was for God to condensed to men and die for our sins. Heaven itself will be focused on the Lamb of God and His wounds and to not deeply think and worship God for this now makes our christian life here on earth seem somewhat incomplete.

Observing many different types of believers, different denominations and groups that gather in Jesus Name, I have noticed a great value in those that practice the tradition of spending concentered time to mediate upon the Lord's passion. Paul Washer has stated that we should give our lifetime to study the cross of Jesus Christ. I concur with this brother and believe it would not be time wasted as it seems that is what our pre-occupation will be in heaven.

It is clear from reading Church history that early believers set apart time to remember the birth, death and ascension of our Lord. And there was healthy discussion amongst the Church fathers on what exact day the Lord was born. Whether your viewpoint on this issue are you willing to spend considerable time to know our Lord better in understanding the incarnation of the Son of God?

L
Lysa

by TMK
"Charlie Brown, you're the only person I know who can take a wonderful season like Christmas and turn it into a problem. Maybe Lucy's right. Of all the Charlie Browns in the world, you're the Charlie Browniest." ~Linus Van Pelt

Thank you for my morning chuckle!!

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MrBillPro

We all have our on personal opinions on Christmas, and I respect the folks that don't celebrate Christmas, and I respect the folks that do. What I don't respect from anyone is someone trying to put me under condemnation, for celebrating Christmas the way I choose. If anyone here feels it's a sin to celebrate Christmas, I'll tell you like Christ would, he without sin, please go ahead and cast the first stone. As usual this thread has gone beyond what the original poster asked, why Christmas on December 25. We have this same debate every Christmas, and it always ends the same, Merry Christmas to those that celebrate Christmas, and Merry Christmas to those that don't.

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sermonindex

I never have to wonder where the term "religious nutcase" comes from. Just go on facebook or come to Christian forums like this one:-)

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TMK

I was cracking some nuts last night. It's a family Christmas tradition.

The actual date is a non-issue for me. Who cares? Presumably if an orphaned child was found and there was no documentation for its actual date of birth, and the child was adopted, it would not go through life without a birthday. The adoptive parents would come up with a birthday.

Further, I know of no Christian family that gives a speck of a nod to any "pagan" origins of any of the holiday traditions. It is just something that has been celebrated in a certain way for years and years. No one is praying to their Christmas tree or performing fertility rights under the mistletoe. A Christmas tree is simply a beautiful fun thing where a family can reminisce and hang ornaments that in many cases have been passed down through several generations. No, I can't find a bible verse to support that practice. Nor can I find one supporting what we made for dinner last night.

In fact, I do not personally know any Christian that does not celebrate Christmas in a traditional fashion, with some variations here and there because each family has different traditions.

R
rbanks

Luke 2:10-14 (KJV)
10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

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TMK

What great news!! I have an idea- let's celebrate it!

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sermonindex

Sorry I should not have said nutcase...I believe the correct term is "crackpot". Religious crackpots:-)

It seems there is something new and controversial everyday for Christians to fight and complain about.

Somehow I figure that if Jesus showed up to my house on December 25th he would have a joyful celebration with his friends and family and be a blessing to all and sundry in whatever form that took. And that would be the end of it for Him. But I am sure we can all disagree on this lol.

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