What Do We Do About Sin?

Many people blame sin on our adamic nature. Is there another way to explain why people would do, think, and feel bad things?

The failure to resist temptation is proof to many believers that becoming a "new creature in Christ” has not yet fully taken affect. The following quote from the Words of Life website sums up the internal conflict experienced by so many believers. "All who have been born again possess the sinful nature, which they inherited from Adam, and the divine nature, which they received when they were born again.” In other words, the article says, every believer has two natures, often at war with each other. This may not help solve the temptation problem, but I guess it may help relieve some guilt.

But, what if there is another explanation for that internal conflict? What if God understands our sufferings differently? Could it be possible that He wants to give us His understanding yet we are so set on our own understanding that we reject His before we even know what it is? Could it be possible that God looks at our trials in a way totally different from the way we think?

The Apostle Paul said, "knowing this, that 'our old self' was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin.” (Roman 6:6, New American Standard Bible) What many call "the adamic” nature is what Paul called 'our old self'.

A primary theme of the New Testament is the death of the old self, the old creation, with Christ as well as our resurrection into His new life. Yet, our experiences often tell us that is not possible, except in a theoretical or spiritual sense. So, what should we do? Does God want us to live in this state of confusion?

The fact is, God does not play games with words. He has no falsehood or deceit; He cannot lie (Titus 1:2). Thus, there must be another reason for the conflict which seems like two natures warring within us.

This is a critical issue. The meaning of death is not to cease existing but to be divided or separated from life or something we hold dear. (One meaning of the Devil is the divider, the separator). When people believe that they are two different people at the same time, i.e. still the old man yet also a new creature, their minds and thoughts are split. Paul called it pulled apart, having a divided attention. James called it double-minded. The author of Psalm 119 called it vain thoughts, doubled-mindedness, divided loyalties. This divided disposition makes it impossible to trust the Lord with the whole heart because our beliefs are split in multiple, contradictory directions.

When someone cannot focus on the truth because they also believe something that is not true the result is a frustratingly inconsistent life. Every human being suffers with some inconsistent beliefs. We all are sure that all of our precious beliefs are unquestionably true, yet according to the Apostle John, some of them are wrong. The, often unrealized, embracing of wrong beliefs is the source of our inconsistencies in life. I thank God for the Holy Spirit. He is diligently, quietly, and gently working to cause us to realize His truth and repent (change our minds) once we realize that we have believed something that is not true.

We All Died With Christ

Is a person included in the crucifixion of Jesus at the moment when he believes? Does it become true for her that "I have been crucified with Christ" only if she has faith in Him? It isn't believing that makes it real. Mankind's co-crucifixion with Jesus on the cross is a reality whether we believe it or not. Here's how Watchman Nee said it:

It is the 'inclusive' death of the Lord which puts me in a position to identify myself, not that I identify myself in order to be included. It is God's inclusion of me in Christ that matters." (Watchman Nee, The Normal Christian Life, p. 46).

Nee points out that I'm not included because I believe it. I believe it because I am included and that is what matters!

Faith doesn't make it happen that we died with Jesus and that the old Adamic man was destroyed. It happened! It is a historical fact that we all died with Him. That's true whether we have faith or not.

How many ways can it be said???

The New American Standard Version says, "For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died."

The New International Version says, "For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died."

The Bible In Basic English says, "For it is the love of Christ which is moving us; because we are of the opinion that if one was put to death for all, then all have undergone death."

The New King James Version says, "For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died."

Young's Literal Translation says, "For the love of the Christ doth constrain us, having judged thus: that if one for all died, then the whole died."

Can it be clearer than this? Did Jesus die for all or not? Did Jesus die for all but only some died with Him? This verse (among others) shows that everybody for whom Jesus died died with Him. The gospel of grace that the human race needs to hear is that Jesus Christ has dealt with Adam's sin in The Garden and has now given us new life!

It's true! We have died with Christ and have been raised to walk in newness of life - His life. That is the gospel we proclaim to those still trapped in their own darkness. That is the gospel that will cause people to come alive to the truth of the finished work of the cross. That is the gospel that will cause those who are blind to finally see. That is the gospel that will cause those who are lost to finally know they have been found. That is the gospel that brings salvation to a person in a way that he/she will be forever transformed.

That is the gospel we need to proclaim. Let us join together and affirm that, by God's grace, we will never again declare a potential gospel but instead we will proclaim the finished work of Jesus Christ for every person. There is power in the preaching of the gospel. When unbelievers hear the truth about the cross, God's Holy Spirit will bring many to faith in Christ.

Our Death With Christ A Historic Fact - Watchman Nee

Romans 6:1-11 is the passage before us now. In these verses it is made clear that the death of the Lord Jesus is representative and inclusive. In His death we all died. None of us can progress spiritually without seeing this. Just as we cannot have justification if we have not seen Him bearing our sins on the Cross, so we cannot have sanctification if we have not seen Him bearing us on the Cross. Not only have our sins been laid on Him but we ourselves have been put into Him.

How did you receive forgiveness? You realized that the Lord Jesus died as your Substitute and bore your sins upon Himself, and that His Blood was shed to cleanse away your defilement. When you saw your sins all taken away on the Cross what did you do? Did you say, 'Lord Jesus, please come and die for my sins'? No, you did not pray at all; you only thanked the Lord You did not beseech Him to come and die for you, for you realized that He had already done it.

But what is true of your forgiveness is also true of your deliverance. The work is done. There is no need to pray but only to praise. God has put us all in Christ, so that when Christ was crucified we were crucified also. Thus there is no need to pray: 'I am a very wicked person; Lord, please crucify me'. That is all wrong. You did not pray about your sins; why pray now about yourself? Your sins were dealt with by His Blood, and you were dealt with by His Cross. It is an accomplished fact. All that is left for you to do is to praise the Lord that when Christ died you died also; you died in Him. Praise Him for it and live in the light of it. "Then believed they his words: they sang his praise" (Psalm 106:12). Do you believe in the death of Christ? Of course you do. Well, the same Scripture that says He died for us says also that we died with Him. Look at it again: "Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8). That is the first statement, and that is clear enough; but is this any less clear? "Our old man was crucified with him" (Romans 6:6). "We died with Christ" (Romans 6:8).

When are we crucified with Him? What is the date of our old man's crucifixion? Is it tomorrow? Yesterday? Today? In order to answer this it may help us if for a moment I turn Paul's statement round and say, 'Christ was crucified with (i.e. at the same time as) our old man'. Some of you came here in twos. You traveled to this place together. You might say, My friend came here with me', but you might just as truly say, 'I came here with my friend'. Had one of you come three days ago and the other only today you could not possibly say that; but having come together you can make either statement with equal truth, because both are statements of fact. So also in historic fact we can say, reverently but with equal accuracy, 'I was crucified when Christ was crucified' or 'Christ was crucified when I was crucified', for they are not two historical events, but one. My crucifixion was "with him". 3 Has Christ been crucified? Then can I be otherwise? And if He was crucified nearly two thousand years ago, and I with Him, can my crucifixion be said to take place tomorrow? Can His be past and mine be present or future? Praise the Lord, when He died in my stead, but He bore me with Him to the Cross, so that when He died I died. And if I believe in the death of the Lord Jesus, then I can believe in my own death just as surely as I believe in His.

Why do you believe that the Lord Jesus died? What is your ground for that belief? Is it that you feel He has died? No, you have never felt it. You believe it because the Word of God tells you so. When the Lord was crucified, two thieves were crucified at the same time. You do not doubt that they were crucified with Him, either, because the Scripture says so quite plainly.

You believe in the death of the Lord Jesus and you believe in the death of the thieves with Him. Now what about your own death? Your crucifixion is more intimate than theirs. They were crucified at the same time as the Lord but on different crosses, whereas you were crucified on the self same cross as He, for you were in Him when He died. How can you know? You can know for the one sufficient reason that God has said so. It does not depend on your feelings. If you feel that Christ has died, He has died; and if you do not feel that he died, He has died. If you feel that you have died, you have died; and if you do not feel that you have died, you have nevertheless just as surely died. These are Divine facts. That Christ has died is a fact, that the two thieves have died is a fact, and that you have died is a fact also. Let me tell you, You have died! You are done with! You are ruled out! The self you loathe is on the Cross in Christ. And "he that is dead is freed from sin" (Romans 6:7, A.V.). This is the Gospel for Christians.

From The Normal Christian Life - Watchman Nee

We continue looking into the great foundational truths of our union with Christ.

What about those areas of our daily living which appear to contradict a life which we say is not we living it, but He as us? What about what are certainly temptations, and appear often to be failures and even sins?

Paul and James speak of these aspects of life as temptations and trials (one word covers both concepts in the original Greek). Temptations are enticements to want what we should not; trials are those times when we are faced with what we don’t want, but can’t avoid!

First then, temptations, which until we have them in right focus are the most troublesome to us. They are the reason why many people say, "This Christ-in-you life is not livable or workable, because of the way we succumb to so many temptations." Yet we know that temptations are just as continuous in a perfect human life, because it is said of Jesus that He "was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin" (Heb. 4:15). Therefore temptations and their enticement are part of a perfect, not imperfect life - and are not themselves sin.

So we squarely face constant temptation on this new level of living, just as much as in the former. The question, then, is often asked, "What is it in us which is tempted and responds to temptation, if we are this new man in Christ and say we are dead to sin and have crucified the flesh with its affections and lusts?" The answer is simply that, as we have already said, we are human selves, and our oneness with Christ does not alter our two-ness in being He and I. God’s whole purpose is to express Himself through our fully human selves, just as He did with Jesus.

Temptation is not Sin

So this human self of ours is just as continually tempted as His was. James explains temptation as being related to the obvious fact that I, as a human, have all the human appetites and faculties of soul and body. In fact, it is by these that God manifests Himself through our selves. Our humanity is responsive to what we might call the "upward temptations" of producing the fruits of the Spirit (see how God "tempted" Abraham to sacrifice his son - Gen. 22:1). So also it is fully open and responsive to all the downward temptations of the flesh, world and devil. This world contains every form of solicitation to the lusts of the flesh, the lusts of the eyes and the pride of life, for "the whole world lieth in the wicked one." To these we in our humanity have responded and lived in all our unsaved days. We have been at home in them. So no wonder that we are constantly assailed by such "drawings." For James says temptation is when we are "drawn away by our own desires and enticed" (1:14); and enticement makes us really want to do it. So temptation definitely makes us want to do what we should not.

Now the vital point is to recognize that this is not sin. Scripture clearly states that Jesus was tempted at all points (and that covers a great deal) as we are, so temptation is not sin for He was "without sin." That means He was enticed to do such things and yet never sinned. Therefore, temptation is not sin. We know He was so tempted because we are given one instance when He did temporarily respond to temptation. That was after He had constantly told His disciples that His Father’s will was for Him to die and rise again. Yet when the time came, He plainly said He didn’t want to die. He was "enticed" to want to escape death and live. "Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from Me." That was temptation, and He plainly had it. Of course His victory was, "Nevertheless not as I will, but as Thou wilt," and that took three hours of bloody sweat to have it settled.

This is of great value to us. Just because we are so often tempted, just because we feel the various pulls of soul and body, we should not drag our feet under a sense of guilt and false condemnation.

Sin is only when we go a definite further step. When, as James says, "lust has conceived, it brings forth sin." Conception and birth are the results of a marriage union. In other words, we have gone beyond the "wanting" condition to a deliberate, conscious choice of doing the thing; and we don’t often go that far.

But now in our union life, a total reversal has taken place: not just a change of our spirit joined to His Spirit, but of the control of our whole personhood, including our soul emotions and body appetites. All are now His property. Our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit. Our members are "instruments of righteousness unto God." We are slaves of righteousness, whereas we used to be slaves of sin. We are "renewed in the spirit of our minds," and every thought is being "brought into subjection to the obedience of Christ." There is now this upward pull on our souls and bodies - upward temptation to respond to Him. Our bodies are living sacrifices. We delight to do His will.

Faith replaces Fear

This is a radical reversal from our fear of flesh responses and our constant guarding against them. Even though Christians, we have become so used to seeing ourselves negatively: Sex is so dangerous and so close around the corner that we are captured by illicit desires - also by greed and love of material things - and by jealousy and hate and resentment. We have been afraid of our flesh, and by no means free to fearlessly use our body faculties and soul emotions for Christ and others.

We therefore, in our new union relationship, take a further step of faith on the soul-and-body level. We are firm in faith that we are kept, and He does the keeping. "Kept by the power of God through faith," wrote Peter. "Now unto Him who is able to keep us from falling," wrote Jude. And said John, "Perfect love casts out fear." So why be fearful?

So, in this new way, we have our emotions to use to express our love and joys and interests, and our minds to be stretched in daily launches of faith in the God of the impossible; our bodies too, appetites and all, are free to express our love and care for others, without being fearful of their misuse. That is our new boldness of faith, though those appetites and emotions have formerly had such a negative hold on us. But fear not. Have faith in the Keeper.

This also gives us a radical change of outlook on temptation. It used to be something to be fearful of, avoid, and feel greatly guilty about; now we see temptation as an asset, not a liability! Why and in what sense? Because light must have darkness to shine out of. Temptations are pulls back to walk again in darkness. But if we now know who we are, we see all our temptations as what God is meaning us to have, and each exactly suitable to us. We see them all as opportunities to manifest Him through our souls and bodies. Temptation has become opportunity! We understand why James tells us to count all temptations as joy. Christ is manifested by them.

But how can we say that it is Christ who is manifested when we are tempted? Let us look at what we do when we are tempted, and then at the remedy for it.

Temptation Analyzed

What happens during temptation is that the human part of us is being drawn away by some solicitation to function just as our old flesh-self used to; and what this means is that we temporarily forget who we are. We forget we are Christ in our human form, and we are pulled to respond as if apart from Him. Instead of being in our normal daily condition of subconsciously recognizing that we are in our vinebranch union (which is what Jesus meant by "abiding," which in the Greek means "remaining", we are diverted into believing in some attractive fleshresponse of body or soul; and what we are believing in at any time holds us in its grasp.

Now in our former self-striving life, trying to combat temptation and sin in our own strength, we would try to resist it even while we responded to it and, as a result, have an inner sense of condemnation because we were even dallying with it. But usually the more we resisted and condemned ourselves, the more the thing gained its hold on us. So we lived a fighting, struggling, supposedly two-nature life - the one striving against the other.

But now, in our new understanding, we don’t deny or fight the temptation. We do not resist or struggle against it. No, we admit and accept it, because we recognize it is not sin but is the normal pull that the outer world, through the flesh, has on us - as it did on Christ - and that God means us to have it. But the importance of accepting, acknowledging, and not resisting is that this "draws the teeth" of the temptation. What you resist, resists you. What you fight, fights you. In this sense I apply Jesus’ words, "Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest - thou be cast into prison." In other words, acknowledge that he is your adversary, and that will take the bite out of him.

So the result of my accepting and agreeing is that it takes the heat out of any resistance by me, and loosens me from the grip of my diverted believing in this enticement. . . and as I free the temptation to be a temptation, I equally free myself from being bound to it by my false believing in it. And I am free to do what? To remember and recognize who I really am - Christ in me! Recognition is faith in its completed form. So I recognize that He is peace when I am tempted to worry. He is courage when fear grabs me. He is genuine love for a person I am feeling hatred for. Furthermore, He is other love who can reverse my temptation to an illicit love, and can cause me to love that one for his or her own benefit and not for my self-gratification. Since He is all these to me as me, I am the manifestation of peace, love and power. Christ is the light who uses the darkness as something which, by His swallowing it up, manifests Him as light in a new form. If I wasn’t tempted to hate, I couldn’t experience and manifest His love. If I wasn’t tempted to fear, I couldn’t experience and manifest His courage. If I wasn’t tempted to an illicit love, I couldn’t experience and manifest His other-love for the benefit of that person through me. My temptations are my assets in continually manifesting Him in new forms.

This is the way in which we totally reverse our outlook on our temptations. We used to be frightened of them because, while still thinking we were independent selves, we were afraid of ourselves and how we could be captured by sin - so we would pray the beginner’s prayer, "Lead us not into temptation." But now we see temptation as the adventure of faith! For it is this necessary negative on which the positive of Christ is built. That’s why I can say with James that I "count it all joy" (a strong, total word - count, not feel) when I have my various temptations.

James Explains

Let us look a little more closely into how James gives us the remedy for the assaults of all kinds of doublemindedness, in his strongly practical letter. Here we will see works not as antagonistic to faith, but as its fulfillment. The basic question will be, How do we add the right kind of works to our faith’?

In this epistle it looks as if we believers have a constant struggle. James speaks of us having the problem of two minds (either believing or wavering); having two standards in our brotherhood relationships (one for the rich but another for the poor); using two tongues (for blessing and cursing); holding two friendships (for the world and for God); having two motives in prayer (self-interest and for others). James mentions all these doubles and presents us as having a conflict between them, with the negative usually overwhelming the positive.

This is a two-nature struggle, all right, and it’s set forth in a letter to believing brethren! But now look more closely at the beautiful remedy James slips in for those eager enough to search it out and find it - or, shall we say, who are open to its God-given reality. In the first chapter he speaks of God’s goodness in "begetting us with the word of truth" - his expression for the new birth (1:18). But then, he continues, we get mixed up with all kinds of disturbing self-reac-tions, not yet knowing the remedy for the "self" problem. He calls this "all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness" (1:21). So what is the answer? We experience it when, by faith, the living word of truth has not only begotten us but is also engrafted into us - his way of describing the vinebranch union relationship - and we become inwardly fixed. This fixedness comes as we see ourselves in union with Christ - that we are forms by which He is manifesting Himself. James calls this blessed insight "the perfect law of liberty" (1:25).

Now he gives this subtle illustration. While we are still in the old selfeffort illusion and don’t yet know Christ in us as us, we are like a man who looks into a mirror and sees himself just as his normal, helpless self - with no hope of any means of changing himself (1:24). So he just goes away and forgets about it. But, James says, when we know the inner union, He in our form, then when we look into the mirror we no longer see our human, failing selves, we see ourselves as who we now are: human expressions of that perfect law of liberty, Christ Jesus, who is the Spirit of other-love. So now we can go out into life with confidence, because we are no longer just ourselves, we are Christ in us as us.

So now we understand the conflict of these doubles not as the contest of two natures, one pitted against the other; rather, we see the temptation as something not within us but something seeking to draw us away from who we are. So we "resist" that drawing not by denying or fighting it but by recognizing Christ in us as us. Thus He uses the temptation for a new manifestation of Himself by us.

Faith Dissolves Doubt

So, James says, life will always consist of endless trials and temptations, because they are the negatives by which He the positive can reveal Himself. Therefore, when we lack wisdom in a situation and ask for it, let us take it for granted that He is in the process of giving it to us. But along come questionings. Will He really show us what to do? Now if we were in the old two-nature conflict, we should be swinging between faith and doubt; but we, knowing we are He in us, dissolve the temptation by saying, "I’m not taking that temptation to doubt. That is an external assault on me. I’m not double - I’m single. And Christ is my wisdom." The stand of faith dissolves the doubt.

The same is true with our new tongues, says James (3:1-18). Our old tongue is a filthy one; our new tongue glorifies God and blesses man. So what then when our tongue slips back into some negative speaking? - if instead of blessing God we curse men, who are made after the similitude of God? Have we then two tongues, and must we always swing from the one to the other? No, says James, for we are like a fountain of water which can’t produce "both salt water and fresh" (NIV). We know we are a fountain of fresh water. Therefore, the salt was just something which got mixed up with the water as it flowed out of the fountain. The defect cannot be within the fountain itself, nor can it be in us. So we recognize the wrong things we said as a slip into temptation - not affecting the purity of the fountain in our union reality - and remedied by a word of repentance and cleansing. We no longer live in a struggle between two kinds of speaking, good and evil discourse. We speak positively and lovingly from our love source with what James calls "the wisdom that is from above," rather than from beneath.

Then he raises the question of our motives in prayer (4:1-4). Are they sometimes double, and mainly for our own self-interest? Once that was so, and it caused us to question what we were asking for, as if we lived with double motives. But now we don’t. Our motives are pure from their pure center, and we go boldly forward in our prayer requests, asking, as Jesus said, "whatsoever we desire." So we have become established in this glorious fixed reality wherein we see ourselves as the expression of the perfect law of liberty, that law which James also calls "the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." And we are that!

And we remain unchanged through all the temptations. "I am single, not double." The assaults of doubleness are only attempts to divert me from my basic singleness. That is why temptations are always such an adventure of faith, and the means of perfecting my faith so that I "count them all joy." Finally, James calls on the brethren to move into this faith union in Christ, and out from that apparent double-mindedness. "Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double-minded" (4:8).

"Do We Still Commit Sin?"

There is one further question which is always being asked about the temptation issue - a favorite question. "But what about sin? Do we still commit sins?" Why do people always bring that up? Because, until we have found a way out, we are so congenitally sinminded. We have become so used to our struggles and failures and guilt - and perhaps we also want some excuse for our continuance in sin!

The usual scripture on which people base that question is 1 John 1:8-9, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves - . If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins - ." But our anxious concern about sin is what gives us away, for the whole point of this summit letter of John’s on the union is not about sinning, but our union reality. We are in the light as He is in the light (for He is the light in us). We walk as He walked (for He is walking in us). We know all truth (for the Spirit is the knower in us). We live the right life, as He does (for the sin spirit in us has been replaced by the Holy Spirit). We love as He loves (because He is love and dwells in us). We believe as He believes (with the world-overcoming faith of the Son of God). We are as He is ("for as He is, so are we in this world")1 John 4:17). It is the total union level. The totally positive level. We are! We know we are! Yes, I am.

But because we have our real, temptable humanity, John started his letter with these sin statements. He declares that there is sin, and that if we sin there is this immediate remedy in Christ’s blood. If it is quick sinning, it is quick cleansing. Indeed, we add sin to sin if we don’t immediately replace the sin and guilt-consciousness with a total forgetting of it in Him of whom it is stated that "our sins and iniquities He remembers no more." We go right ahead praising, and indeed use a sin "slip" once again to magnify the grace of God. The loss turned to gain! But then John also adds, "These things I write unto you that ye sin not." That is all that John has to say in his whole five chapters about the possibility of our sinning. It is a detail to him. We are Christ-minded, not sin-minded. We walk so confidently in our new union-relationship that John says, "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin - he cannot sin, because he is born of God" (3:9). We cannot return to sin as a principle, but if we do slip into a sin there is the immediate remedy. Confess it and forget it; don’t rehash it or ask sin questions. Talk Christ union and live it - because we can’t help it.

If you are struggling with any sin in your Christian experience your problem is really very simple. Your sin "bondage" is to "force" you to see that you are still holding on to a false self-image in which you think you are a defendant self who shouldn't sin; and so you struggle against self condemnation in your sinning, and then pray and "believe", and nothing happens!

You see this is the final form of the self-affirming self we got tricked into believing in at the Fall by the Enemy Deceiver. We there partook of the "tree" of "knowledge of good and evil", and not just what we usually call evil. So really the worst evil (to which we were blinded) is that we can and should be "good" selves - just a final form of self-loving and self-affirming self. This is the final struggling "self" of Romans 7. In our spirit centers we are the redeemed who "delight in the law of God in the inward man," but we still don't recognize that our human self was never an independent, self-relying self, but only a slave and vessel and branch of Satan, that "spirit of error". But he "kidded" (deceived) us into thinking we were independent selves who could be good selves; though in that bondage to him our "good" self was just another Satanic form of self-loving self (which can take all kinds of forms of good works).

Because of this Romans 7 deceit, we are still blind to the fact that the moment we were delivered from Satan indwelling us and expressing his self-loving self by us, at the time of our faith union with Christ in his death (Paul's "I am crucified with Christ" of Galatians 2:20), we were immediately in that same faith-union "married" to our Other Husband (Romans 7:1-6). Instead of the Romans 7 lie of apparent independent self, we have become slaves, branches, vessels of and in Him.

The law was given to expose this lie of self-relying self and expose us to ourselves as slaves and expressers of Satan (John 8:44). We first saw that in our committed sins, and found our deliverance from guilt and wrath in His shed blood. But then, as redeemed ones, we have to move on to recognize the final lie of an apparent independent, self-relying self which holds on to its supposed goodness.

This is the final form of Satan deceiving us, because the lie of in­dependent self really means we are still in self-bondage to the god of self-loving self (that is Paul's "I am carnal, sold under sin" of Romans 7:14). There the law still says to us, "you ought"; and of course that independent self can't stop doing its self-loving things, as with your sin. So the law has its final Romans 7 use in exposing to us this lie of being independent selves who "ought" to be good and do good, and resist any forms of self-indulgences or self-reactions, including self-esteem.

And so, at last, we are brought to the final discovery of Romans 7, that we are "dead to the law" in the dead body of Christ (7:4). Finally we see that there is no such thing as an independent self on which the law can lay its demands; for that lie of independent self was really my self enslaved to Satan, (Mr. Self-loving Self), and just fulfilling his "lusts". But now my same self has changed husbands and "bosses'', and instead of believing this lie of independence, I see that I am the vessel, branch, and wife of Christ, the Spirit of truth. and when I know that, and cease to respond to life by fussing about my own self-improvements and self-bondages, not only do we cease to listen to the laws of "you ought, you ought not" to which we are "dead", but we settle by this same faith into the fixed consciousness of we being Christ in our redeemed human forms (the second phrase of Galatians 2:20 - "I live, no not I - but Christ lives in me").

Knowing this we recognize the former temptations to try to improve ourselves or to take guilt and condemnation for our failures. And instead of resisting such temptations, we now accept them as mere temptations, and replace them by affirming and knowing Christ in us as us. We recognize deliverances can only be HE expressing His delivering Self by us in any way he pleases.

Thus, with your sin you recognize and accept (without resisting) your desire and enjoyment of your sin. You don't try to change yourself or to stop from doing this sin. You simply say, "Christ, you in me, will do the stopping in your own way and time. I take that for granted by faith.'' If then, the habit grabs you again and you sin, you don't take condemnation (Romans 8:1), but again just reaffirm that He is the real you, and that He will easily and naturally cut off the sin in HIS own way and time. Then go ahead with your daily living - without condemnation, but with faith. It looks daring, and looks like license, but turns out to be the only permanent liberty - HIS freeing HIS temple in the way HE pleases and does it.

So, now you see your problem is not the sin at all, but the false Romans 7 concept that you should not sin like this and you should be rid of it. So it is God's good way of the final exposure of the lie of the self-affirming self of Romans 7 - the final form of sin which still gives Satan his ways of a temporary grab on us.

How do you handle temptation and failure?" I was recently asked this question by a pastor anxious to have the right answer for himself and for his people; I found it both profitable and confirming to discuss it with him.

It is the big question of the vast majority of born-again Christians. We want to be Christ-like, but we are caught in the same syndrome of which Paul wrote in Romans 7: "I delight in the law of God after the inward man... to will is present with me, but how to perform that which is good I find not."

What is the answer? First and essentially, I must know who I am in Christ, and be consciously, freely, and happily that person. And who I am is most perfectly expressed and defined in Paul’s great Galatians 2:20: I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me."

First Paul says, and I must say with him, "I am crucified with Christ." That means in actual fact - not just doctrinally and positionally. My previous fallen I, independent of Christ and in the dominion of Satan and sin, is now cut off from sin as the reigning principle of my life. I am in fact dead to sin and to the indwelling satanic spirit of error.

Regardless of how I feel, I have to say it and confess it with my mouth: "I am crucified with Christ." I must say, "I am dead sin" as boldly as when I got saved. Then I said I was no longer lost sinner, but was now justified in Christ as though I had never sinned. All we born-again people have said just that in our own terms haven’t we? And we had to say it by looking away from our lost sin condition and the bondages of which we had become so vividly conscious, and transferring our believing and inner seeing to God’s written word, which tells us God sees us as though we had never sinned. We have been justified by faith and so have peace with God. God sees us in Christ as perfect and sinless as Christ Himself.

So now we have to go a step further. In the face of our flesh weaknesses, our temptations, and our lapses into sins, we now boldly say: "I am dead to sin in Christ. I am crucified with Christ." And then further still. Just as I once said, "not only am I no longer a lost sinner, but now righteous in Christ as He is righteous," so now I say, "not only am I no longer a separated self in an old marriage under sin control, but I am now a newly married self (Rom. 7:4) joined to Christ." I carry Paul’s Galatians statement through to its completion - that now I live, yet it is not I living, but Christ living in me.

Christ is the Real Person expressed through my human I, totally replacing the spirit of error who previously expressed his sin-self through me. I am not saying Christ lives in me as though side by side with me; rather, He replaces the independent me as my real inner self. I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me. That is replacement, and not just a partnership or relationship between two. It is two having become one, for "he that is joined to the Lord is one spirit." It is He and I as Vine and branch. We operate together as one vine. The vine expresses and reproduces itself in its branch forms, the sap always flowing through the branch and producing the fruit. So now I am Christ being Himself through my human self. I am not just I, Norman Grubb, but Christ expressed in His Norman Grubb form.

In the same way, a body is the head expressing itself in its body form. A body is a head in outer action. When we enter a dark room, we should say, "Turn on the lamp," not "Turn on the light," for it is a light manifested through its lamp form. But we don’t even remember that it’s a lamp; we just call it a light! So are we in our redeemed form, being called by Jesus the light of the world. For He is not only the One who died for me and is now my Savior; He is also my Indweller - not as a separate one in me, but as my replacement. "I live, yet not I, but He." Christ is my Permanent Identity, and I am His means of manifesting Himself.

Now these are two radical statements: 1) that I am crucified with Christ and thus actually dead to sin and the spirit of error, and 2) that I am no longer just my Norman Grubb I, but Christ is in such an eternal inner union with me that it is He expressed in my human form. It is difficult to make that confessed word of faith which says straight out, "I am not I, but Christ in me," because for so many years as a born-again Christian I have been such a flesh-conscious, oppressed, failing, guilty, and self-condemning I. How then can I honestly say that this I - so tempted, so often stressed and strained, hurt and angry, resentful and lustful - is not only dead to sin, but is Christ Himself?

First let’s get it clear: the human self is always a tempted self, and temptation is not sin. We know that because Adam and Eve were tempted before they sinned, and Jesus, the one sinless man, was tempted so totally that He is the only one ever named in the Bible as tempted in every way in which we are tempted, and that is saying a big thing. So I can be as perfect as Christ is perfect, yet constantly tempted in every channel of temptation through my bodily desires or soul emotions or feelings or re­actions, or through mental doubts or questionings.

What then is temptation? It is the drawing and pulling of a world which in its fallen condition is totally geared to self-interest and self-gratification (John’s "lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and pride of life"), continually pulling at me to respond to some independent self-reaction or self-desire. James describes it as being "drawn away by our own lusts and enticed." (Jas.1:18)

Temptation is a subtle attempt to make my human me forget who I really am (Christ in my human form), and act as if I am back off the cross as an independent human being responding to some drawing of my human desires or appetites. In other words, it is the presence of sin (self-loving desires) enticing me back to the illusion of being my old independent self (not joined to Christ), enticing me to commit spiritual adultery. (Jas. 4:4) It is the pull back to that illusory, independent, struggling self that Paul so completely describes in Romans 7:14-24, and from which he says in verses 1-4 we have been delivered by Christ’s death cutting us off from the old control of the law. For the law held us in its tight grip while we were independent of God, presented us with impossible demands, and thus exposed us to the realization of our captivity to sin. But now we have died in Christ to being those independent selves in the power of sin, and instead have become united selves to Christ, so that there remains no independent self. "Dead to the law" must mean that there is no separate self on which law can make its demands.

To put it another way, my old marriage to sin and the law of "ought to," which gave sin its control over my independent self, is dissolved eternally in Christ’s death, and is replaced in His resurrection by the new marriage in which my Husband has taken over my redeemed human self. This human self is God’s beautiful creation in His own likeness, which for a time had been stolen and made captive in a false independence by sin and Satan. But God graciously gave the law to expose our blinded selves to the fact that we were captives in our false independence, so that now we are released to be our true selves.

Therefore, temptation is the agency by which sin would deceive me (Rom. 7:11) and pull me back to the illusion of responding as my old independent self, which was subject to the laws of "you ought" and "you ought not." Then sin, "taking occasion by the commandment," makes me react as an independent self. I temporarily forget that I am Christ in my human self, and thus in my illusory independence once again I become a slave to sin, doing what I ought not, for the independent I can never fulfill the law.

So there lies the snare. If by temptation I can be tricked and deceived into responding as if separate from who I truly am, I am caught, enslaved, and defeated, and guilt and condemnation then follow. The full implication of Paul’s insistence that I am dead to the law is that this apparently independent I is an illusion, because that "I" comes under the law. Being dead to the law means there remains no independent I for the law to give commands to! The new I - Christ in me and as me - is the law; and thus in my union relationship "the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in me".

So what do I do when temptation pulls at me as though I am an independent self? I act as quickly as I can. I can always be who I am. To be competent in a profession means that I have a settled know-how in the use of my tools. It is perfectly easy and spontaneous for a carpenter to use his tools and make his measurements, because he operates by his inner know-how of how to do his job, and not by the outer tools. His years of apprenticeship and training transferred his outer learning into inner know-how. He now enjoys practicing his profession. Recently when I was admiring the paneling of a friend’s new house, he happened to say, "Yes, I have a good carpenter. But he would be insulted if you were to tell him how to do his job. You only tell him what to do, not how to do it."

We operate happily, freely, and spontaneously when we know our profession by inner know-how. That knowing is being (just as the Bible word for knowing always means being mixed with a thing or person), and so we are the carpenter, cook, or doctor. And that is precisely how I know I am not I, but Christ, the real me in my human form. The faith that changed the apprentice with his outer learning into the professional with his inner know-how is the same faith by which I possess my possessions (as crucified with Christ, and now Christ replacing me in my resurrected I). Faith, being substance (Heb. 11:1), has become my fixed inner consciousness that this union and replacement is the eternal fact, so that I now live freely, spontaneously, and happily by my permanent know-how.

So when temptation draws me and would grab me, it is now easy for me to transfer my initial tendency to respond as if I’m an independent self back to who I really am. I don’t have to seek and pray and try to find a Christ who will deliver me. I simply recognize myself as crucified with Him. Now He is the real me, and I recognize Him as me. He, the love or purity or power or peace or whatever virtue, swallows up the pull of the attraction. We can’t see two ways at once. When I am drawn to see and respond to some negative temptation, I take the place of faith by denying the existence of this false self with its negative seeing and affirm it as now crucified with Christ. I replace it by the positive seeing of Him as my true self. Then where is the temptation or pull? The positive swallows the negative!

In other words, I don’t fight against darkness in a room, or Stop to condemn it, or struggle against it. I just turn on the light, and where is the darkness? And when we inwardly know we are that light (He in us), it is quite easy to recognize Him in us, and that is how we inwardly turn on the light. Life swallows up death, Paul says, and likewise light swallows up darkness.

Temptation is really a means of temporarily diverting my believing into some flesh attraction, for what the Bible calls un­belief is really negative believing. I am temporarily grabbed by that thing - some fear, depression, tension, lust, resentment, sense of inability, or weakness - and sometimes the hold may last for a long time. As soon as I awake to the hold that a thing has on me through my negative believing in it, then I can always exercise my freedom of will (which is not soul-emotion but spirit-action) and affirm who I am, Christ in me. I do this by the word of faith, quite apart from feeling or reasoning, and I am restored and free.

Above all else, I must rely on Romans 8:1 - no condemnation! James says we are to count temptations all joy (count in spirit, not feel in soul!) because they provide practice in becoming established in faith - in faith of Christ as the real me. So when I am tempted and snap back from illusory self to Him, my true self, then I give thanks and enjoy that little bit of good practice, but I never take condemnation. When His own disciples remained in negative believing - fearing a storm, not having food for the multitude, or no fish, or not believing the resurrection - Christ did not condemn them as sinners, but He did call them "fools and slow of heart to believe," and He did chide them for their lack of faith. So I don’t mind being often a fool and a slow believer, but I don’t mistake foolishness for sinning. No condemnation!

And if I go beyond temptation and indulge in the thing tempting me, then I have sinned and will undoubtedly feel guilty. But I must not remain in that guilt, for God does not see the sin, but only the blood which cleanses from all sin. So I see the same. I confess (a word in 1 John 1:9 which means "say with," so I am inwardly saying with God, "Yes, I did sin"), then immediately the sin is no longer there. Since He remembers it nor more, neither do I. I immediately change from guilt to praise. That is why it says in Hebrews 9:14 that the blood cleanses the conscience from the dead works. It is adding sin to sin, if I choose to remain guilty instead of replacing it by positive believing that I am righteous as He is righteous.

And I refuse to step into the added false bondage of that illusory self which says, "I’m sure I’ll do it again. How can I be delivered from this wrong habit?" I am not there to be delivered! I am now Christ in one of His human forms, and all I am told again and again is to walk, walk, walk. And "walk" means that I take one step at a time. So I don’t say, "What about that habit grabbing me tomorrow?" Take no thought for the morrow, Jesus said. I only say, "I am my freed self now. As for tomorrow, He is my keeper. He has taken on the keeping of me. I’ll surely do it again unless You keep me, but You are my keeper." So I only live in the present.

In order to live the "Not I, but He" life, I must have that inner consciousness. That is the faith being substance. When I was saved as a sinner, I had to transfer my negative believing in my sinful condition to my positive believing that Christ is my substitute who bore my sins in His own body on the tree. As I said that word of faith, the Spirit witnessed with my spirit that I am a redeemed child of God, and I live in that consciousness.

In the same way, I now turn my attention (my negative believing) away from my flesh-consciousness as "the wretched man; who shall deliver me from this body of death," and I say the word of faith (positive believing) that I have been crucified with Christ and now I do not live, but He lives in me and as me. Then what happens? Into my inner consciousness (my know-how) comes the inner witness, "Yes, you are no longer your old lonely you. You are Christ in you, the real you." And now, with Paul, in place of saying "I’m a wretched man," I am saying, "I thank God through Jesus Christ my Lord that I am a delivered man, and that He who is the Spirit of life is my real inner self." (Rom. 8:2)

And the outcome is significant, for it changes my attitude - not just toward Christ, but toward myself. I no longer regard my human self as a wretched liability, always bugging and tormenting me. I now see and accept myself as Christ’s precious asset. My human ego is His holy temple, His branch form of Himself the Vine for reproducing fruit, His body agency by which He the Head operates in every phase of saving love activity. So I accept myself and love myself as He accepts and loves me! This is precisely what Paul said when He knew he was Christ in His Paul form. He came out boldly to be himself in all freedom; "the life I now live in the flesh I live I not Christ lives by faith," the inner substantial consciousness of the fact that He loves me; and He gave Himself for me, so I can now give myself for others.

I live spontaneously, for I say with St. Augustine, "Love God and do as you like!" I think, I will, I choose, I plan - It looks like it, but it is really He. I live with a kind of wink. I, yes I, yet actually He!

In that freedom and spontaneity, temptation is less bother­some, for I am no longer living in suspicious fears and anxious watchfulness lest some temptation grab me again. Job said what we greatly fear comes on us, so that a lot of our temptations come because we are temptation and sin-minded, and fearful of our illusory selves. As we become self-accepting in place of self-fearing, temptations will be all the fewer.

Finally, there is a sense in which we forget God and live. For when I have an inner know-how of my profession, I forget about the know-how and just do my job. I don’t keep reminding myself, "I’m a cook, I’m a teacher, I’m an engineer." I just cook, teach, design. I don’t keep saying or remembering, "I am Christ in me, I am His human form." I just immerse my human self in my thinking, speaking, and acting - and that is Christ.

Actually all this is only the background for living. It helps me find out who I really am in God’s eternal predestination of us as sons. It helps me to be who I am, and when I am that person, what am I? I am in my God-union. I am a co-lover, co-savior, and co-worker with Christ in God’s eternal outgoing love-purposes and love-action. I move with Paul from knowing Christ in me for my liberation to knowing this same Christ as "mighty in me towards the Gentiles." (Gal. 2:8) That is, I know Christ not for my own benefits, but for the sake of others. The inner fountain is now an out flowing river. But that is altogether another aspect of things. It is the third stage - from infancy, through adolescence, to adulthood; from co-crucifixion in Galatians, through co-resurrection in Colossians, to co-ascension in Ephesians; from Christ as our Moses, to Christ as our Joshua, to Christ as our Melchisedek. Daniel puts it simply: "The people that do know their God shall be strong and do exploits." That is the final reality of our Christ-union.

I believe the following quotation below is worth considering. This is from Jerry Bridges book, The Pursuit Of holiness.
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Too often, we say we are defeated by this or that sin. No, we are not defeated. We are simply disobedient. It might be good if we stop using the terms victory and defeat to describe our progress in holiness. Rather, we should use the terms obedience and disobedience. When I say I am defeated by some sin, I am unconsciously slipping out from under my responsibility. I am saying something outside of me has defeated me. But when I say I am disobedient, that places the responsibility for my sin squarely on me. We may in fact be defeated, but the reason we are defeated is because we have chosen to disobey.

We need to brace ourselves up and to realize that we are responsible for thoughts, attitudes, and actions. We need to reckon on the fact that we died to sin's reign, that it no longer has any dominion over us, that God has united us with the risen Christ in all His power and has given us the Holy Spirit to work in us. Only as we accept our responsibility and appropriate God's provisions will we make any progress in our pursuit of holiness.

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What do we do with our sin? If I read the above quotation right. We confess our sins according to 1 John 1:9. We turn away from our sins. And set Jesus before us. And run after Him according to Hebrews 12:1-3.

I like brother Bridges. For he deals more in practical obedience then in abstract theology.

Simply my thoughts.

Bro Blaine

It is obvious that we are speaking the same language. Unfortunately, it is also obvious, to me, that we have different definitions for the same words, which means that while you may be thinking one thing, the reader is understanding something else, simply because the words you use don’t mean to them what they mean to you.

Since the main word in this discussion is "sin,” here is the First Century understanding, in brief, of the word "sin.”

Though today "sin” is understood as something a person does, feels, or thinks that is wrong, First Century Christians understood more. To early believers it included the same meaning, but it’s primary meaning was error. Sin was first and foremost believing what God considers lies.

This is critical. If we think that God’s primary concern is what we do that is wrong, then we are constantly looking for how to change what we do. But, God created mankind to live what we believe. We can’t choose to live what we believer because God created us to automatically live what we believe. We have no choice.

So, what does God expect us to do? Hear His truth and believe it!

"Well, I DO believe it!”

Really? Are you certain? Or, do you simply agree that His truth is true but deep down you know something else? "Really, God, I know that what you say is a good idea, but it doesn’t work in this world, so what you say is truth is really for the future. I can’t expect your truth in my present reality because it isn’t my present reality.”

If you will substitute the word "error” for "sin,” it may turn your understanding of the scriptures upside down, which will, actually, then be right side up.

Rom. 14:23, "And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin."

Now do you REALLY believe these Gospel facts about your self?

Eph. 2:10; "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

These good works are the RESULT of believing.

Phil. 2:13; "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."

We can live out (work out) and express His LIFE because it is HIM - He works within us both to will and to do of His good pleasure.

It is HIS Love that constrains us
It is HIS Faith that we have
It is HIS Righteousness
He is our Life
He is our Power
He is our Hope
He is our Strength
He is your Peace
He is the source of your love
He is our trust and confidence
We have His mind
We are Holy
He is our Obedience
We are Saints
WE are a new creation and are a partaker of God's Divine Nature.
We are s Child of God
He is our Victory
We are Complete in Him
He will not remember our sins and inequities any longer

Acts 17:28; "For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring."

IT IS ALL HIM!!!!!

John 8:32, "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

Please realize that I have no power to open your eyes to this glorious truth concerning your freedom in Christ. Only the Holy Spirit of God can do that so now just ask God and expect that by His Holy Spirit to take the things of Christ and then show them to you. As he does this your eyes will be opened and you will see these truths in a greater detail than you ever have before.

If you are having problems or issues in walking and experiencing Christ's victory or if you have been struggling to be freed from sin then this article is for you.

Most of us have no problem in believing the fact that Christ was crucified and died on the cross for us. This was an unchangeable and irrevocable historical and Spiritual act of God. Even if you chose not to believe in this fact, it still remains a fact.

Now was Christ's death real or potential? It was real in every possible way. He really died and He did shed his blood. There was absolutely nothing potential about it.

Now what did you have to do concerning this act of God?
Did you agree with it or even consent to it?
Did you even get to vote for it?

NO!

You had absolutely nothing with to do with it all!

This act was all of God's doing because of His supreme love for you.

Do you know that when Christ was crucified that you were crucified with Him?
Do you know that when Christ was buried you were buried with Him?
Do you know that when Christ rose from the dead you were raised with Him in newness of life?

Now I went to many churches and some completely different denominations for many years without even hearing this truth. The places that I did hear this truth they only taught it as some potential or a positional truth that somehow I had to attain to or acquire by my efforts.

Let us see what God's word says concerning this truth.

Rom 6:3-7; "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him."

Rom. 6:18; "Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness."

Rom. 6:22; "But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life."

Rom. 8:2-3; "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh"

2 Cor. 5:14-15; "For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again."

Gal. 2:20; "I am crucified with Christ: neverthless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

Look at what Watchman Nee wrote in his book "The Normal Christian Life."

"In these verses it is made clear that the death of the Lord Jesus is representative and inclusive. In His death we all died. None of us can progress spiritually without seeing this. Just as we cannot have justification if we have not seen Him bearing our sins on the Cross, so we cannot have sanctification if we have not seen Him bearing us on the Cross. Not only have our sins been laid on Him but we ourselves have been put into Him.

How did you receive forgiveness? You realized that the Lord Jesus died as your Substitute and bore your sins upon Himself, and that His Blood was shed to cleanse away your defilement. When you saw your sins all taken away on the Cross what did you do? Did you say, 'Lord Jesus, please come and die for my sins'? No, you did not pray at all; you only thanked the Lord You did not beseech Him to come and die for you, for you realized that He had already done it.

But what is true of your forgiveness is also true of your deliverance. The work is done. There is no need to pray but only to praise. God has put us all in Christ, so that when Christ was crucified we were crucified also. Thus there is no need to pray: 'I am a very wicked person; Lord, please crucify me'. That is all wrong. You did not pray about your sins; why pray now about yourself? Your sins were dealt with by His Blood, and you were dealt with by His Cross. It is an accomplished fact. All that is left for you to do is to praise the Lord that when Christ died you died also; you died in Him. Praise Him for it and live in the light of it. "Then believed they his words: they sang his praise" (Psalm 106:12). Do you believe in the death of Christ? Of course you do. Well, the same Scripture that says He died for us says also that we died with Him. Look at it again: "Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8). That is the first statement, and that is clear enough; but is this any less clear? "Our old man was crucified with him" (Romans 6:6). "We died with Christ" (Romans 6:8).

When are we crucified with Him? What is the date of our old man's crucifixion? Is it tomorrow? Yesterday? Today? In order to answer this it may help us if for a moment I turn Paul's statement round and say, 'Christ was crucified with (i.e. at the same time as) our old man'. Some of you came here in twos. You traveled to this place together. You might say, My friend came here with me', but you might just as truly say, 'I came here with my friend'. Had one of you come three days ago and the other only today you could not possibly say that; but having come together you can make either statement with equal truth, because both are statements of fact. So also in historic fact we can say, reverently but with equal accuracy, 'I was crucified when Christ was crucified' or 'Christ was crucified when I was crucified', for they are not two historical events, but one. My crucifixion was "with him". Has Christ been crucified? Then can I be otherwise? And if He was crucified nearly two thousand years ago, and I with Him, can my crucifixion be said to take place tomorrow? Can His be past and mine be present or future? Praise the Lord, when He died in my stead, but He bore me with Him to the Cross, so that when He died I died. And if I believe in the death of the Lord Jesus, then I can believe in my own death just as surely as I believe in His.

Why do you believe that the Lord Jesus died? What is your ground for that belief? Is it that you feel He has died? No, you have never felt it. You believe it because the Word of God tells you so. When the Lord was crucified, two thieves were crucified at the same time. You do not doubt that they were crucified with Him, either, because the Scripture says so quite plainly.

You believe in the death of the Lord Jesus and you believe in the death of the thieves with Him. Now what about your own death? Your crucifixion is more intimate than theirs. They were crucified at the same time as the Lord but on different crosses, whereas you were crucified on the self same cross as He, for you were in Him when He died. How can you know? You can know for the one sufficient reason that God has said so. It does not depend on your feelings. If you feel that Christ has died, He has died; and if you do not feel that he died, He has died. If you feel that you have died, you have died; and if you do not feel that you have died, you have nevertheless just as surely died. These are Divine facts. That Christ has died is a fact, that the two thieves have died is a fact, and that you have died is a fact also. Let me tell you, You have died! You are done with! You are ruled out! The self you loathe is on the Cross in Christ. And "he that is dead is freed from sin" (Romans 6:7, A.V.)."

Just look at some things God has already done for you and in you.
This is the truth that sets you free.

1. You have deliverance from sin and its spiritual consequences.
2. You are attached to the body of Christ.
3. You have Jesus Christ actually dwelling, abiding and living within you.
4. You have been set free from the law of sin and death.
5. You have deliverance from the pollution of sin itself.
6. You are now one with Christ and in union with Him.
7. You are now a totally NEW creation.
8. You have been reconciled to God.
9. You have entered into a new spiritual life of righteousness, peace and joy
10. You are now seated in the heavily places in Christ.
11. You have been delivered from eternal death, sin, punishment and misery.
12. Jesus Christ Himself is now your Life. You are now a partaker of His divine nature.
13. You have been freed from the power and domain of sin.
14. You have now been justified by his blood,
15 You have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace "
16. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made you free from the law of sin and death
17. You have been crucified with Christ.
18. Your body is now the Temple of God and you are holy.
19. You have been made the righteousness of God in Christ.
20. He is your Sabbath rest.
21. And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
22. God has taken away your stony hard heart and REPLACED with a new heart that is full of His love, desires and faith. Please note that this was an exchange. He took away the old heart and then replaced it with a new one. You do NOT have two hearts!
23. Jesus has delivered us from the power of darkness, and has translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: (Col 1:13)
24. Jesus has opened our eyes, and turned us from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that we may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith... (Act 26:18)
25. Jesus has delivered us from the snare of the Devil (2 Tim 2:26)
26. Jesus has delivered us from the god of this world who had blinded our minds that we believe not... (2 Cor 4:4)
27. Through Him and by Him we wrestle with principalities, and powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places AND OVERCOME ALL THE POWER OF THE ENEMY. (Eph 6:12 and Luke 10:19)

Psa 98:1 A Psalm. O sing unto the LORD a new song; for he hath done marvellous things: his right hand, and his holy arm, hath gotten him the VICTORY.

The person of Christ Himself is OUR VICTORY.

1 Cor. 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the VICTORY through our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the VICTORY that overcometh the world, even our faith. The person of Christ Himself is OUR VICTORY

Tuc, part of the problem you are running into is that, in fact, people have missed the foundation which early believers had. Though I haven't notice you mention the Lie by name, you definitely understand its affects and reject it. Thus, what you are saying makes sense to you, me, and a few others. But, when someone doesn't understand what causes "sin" it is not possible for them to understand the simplicity of what you are saying. Truth is simple, but not if the key foundational words and concepts you are using mean something different today than they did 2000 years ago. Thankfully, the Holy Spirit is persistent and not upset at someone who doesn't yet understand how they can already be free in Christ when they are so aware of their "sin." Just keep saying what you are saying. You don't cause people to realize their reality, the Holy Spirit does. But, He does use the words you speak with such love to accomplish His objective.

Gal 5:1, "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage."

This is the key - Christ hath made us free and we have liberty!!!

Now many people just do not believe that they are really free from the domain and power of sin. Many people think that they still have the old Adamic nature within them but no person can have two natures at the same time.

Unless people realize their reality, they can not ever enjoy the finished work of God in Christ.

balder-dashy? Word of Faith?

Just take God at his word. Does God lie?

Did Christ want to sin as a human man on the earth?

Is Jesus Christ a true and living reality within you?

What is real?

You were crucified with Him - dead and buried with Him and now risen with Him. He now abides, lives and dwells with in you.

You are one with HIM!

Stand on the truth and enjoy HIS LIFE, VICTORY AND RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Mr. Nee goes on to say about deliverance...

For God’s way of deliverance is altogether different from man’s way. Man’s way is to try to suppress sin by seeking to overcome it; God’s way is to remove the sinner. Many Christians mourn over their weakness, thinking that if only they were stronger all would be well. The idea that, because failure to lead a holy life is due to our impotence, something more is therefore demanded of us, leads naturally to this false conception of the way of deliverance... we naturally conclude that to gain the victory over sin we must have more power. ‘If only I were stronger’, we say, ‘I could overcome my violent outbursts of temper’, and so we plead with the Lord to strengthen us that we may exercise more self-control.

But this is altogether wrong; this is not Christianity. God’s means of delivering us from sin is not by making us stronger and stronger, but by making us weaker and weaker. That is surely rather a peculiar way of victory, you say; but it is the Divine way. God sets us free from the dominion of sin, not by strengthening our old man but by crucifying him; not by helping him to do anything but by removing him from the scene of action.

For years, maybe, you have tried fruitlessly to exercise control over yourself, and perhaps this is still your experience; but when once you see the truth you will recognize that you are indeed powerless to do anything, but that in setting you aside altogether God has done it all. Such a revelation brings human self-effort to an end.

JamesECampbellJr wrote

"This is critical. If we think that God’s primary concern is what we do that is wrong, then we are constantly looking for how to change what we do. But, God created mankind to live what we believe. We can’t choose to live what we believer because God created us to automatically live what we believe. We have no choice."

Many people focus on attempting doing good and avoiding evil or some kind of sin maintenance for victory. This will NEVER work. In fact there is law that will prevent you even from being successful in doing that.

Very true. The victory is hidden in your words, tuc. Yet, it isn't hidden. God will show all who are willing to cease being adults and admit they just don't understand how what He says can be true. They can tell him that their experiences say to them that what He says isn't true. God loves that kind of honesty. He'll never say anything but, "Come sit on my knee on the throne of grace and I'll teach you all about it." We simply tell Abba, "Father, what you say IS true even though it seems impossible."