A Credible Witness Before the End

Hi Brothers And Sisters,
I just want to say to you that God will send a credible witness to the world before the end.
What is Credible for me?
It will be a witness that has grace and holiness
It will be witness that has power and insight
It will be world wide
It will be sucessful.

It honestly worries me when Christians arent ready to accept good things.
We have to understand this scripture the way scripture understands it not the way the world understands it.
"A Voice Crying In The Wilderness"
Its a biblical term funnily enough used by the world often.
The world sees this as a person who tells the truth about a subject but is not listened too at the time of the telling and afterwards in reflection or hindsight it is decided he/she/they were right.Sometimes its about a heroic whistleblower type either.

Scripture looks at differently,The voice crying in the wilderness is total success in time of the voice not in hindsight.The couple of isntances we see of this "Voice" in the bible is success total.
Their is a Voice coming of total success which is hard for SI members to process I know but I am worried that because of your narrative you wont want accept this Voice.
I think its a time to stop using trends to make predictions and start relying on the Holy Spirit to speak accurate prophesy.These Prophesies may be in line with trends or they may not.
If all you are relying on to predict the future is trends then their will be no room for God raising up a "King That does right in the sight of the Lord"
He couldnt be from the Lord all the other kings were evil,no he has to be evil too.I say that not about an individual but about a message.Their couldnt be good coming all the trends are saying down and down and down how could we have success?
Oh yeah I hear you say but we can have a personal success,a success in the sense of sticking close to the Lord and being Holy well I am not talking about that type.
Im talking about the type that confronts the world and says this is evil this good and God is on our side,
Yours Hugh

As our brother Greg has cited, so it is.

Rev. 11:15 points to a time when it will be said, and true, that the kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and Christ.

It comes by force. It comes as a vanquishing force opposed to all that which has opposed Him. God vindicates Himself in Christ. No one vindicates Him.

I pray, too, that we may live peaceable, godly lives here. The window, though, is closing swiftly on the uneasy peace. We have no judge to rescue us from among men. We have no ruler, leader or king who remains to come and speak gospel from a position of earthly power. Nor do we need one. Jesus alone now must come.

We must have Him as our king and desire no other between now and His enthronement on the earth.

Rev 11:3
And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

If the Christian Church were to operate the way it should and her prophets speak what they are supposed to in the public forum we would presently be seeing a great many things that would not only please the Christian community but also bring even more of the Worlds scorn I am sure...in all likelihood The Church would do exactly like Samson's brethren did in trying to bind the very one who was bringing their deliverance from the Philistines. But there will be witnesses that God will raise up with authority even before the two in rev 11, the real question is who is willing to be that witness that God can use?

But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. (Acts 1:8)

And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
(Acts 2:17-21)

Hi Greg
What you have said is a given but it in no way negates what I have said.
Also the majority of that has already happened and is happening.The end to me is the 7 fat cows and the 7 skinny cows, the 7 years of plenty and the 7 years of famine
So their is room for what I am saying and what you are saying.
My complaint which is probably too strong a word is that alot of people can just see the 7 skinny cows.They cant except that before the time of lean, the time of feast comes.They pray for revival,they pray for social change,they hope that the hearts of the children will turn towards the father but leave no room for it to happen.Its straight to the skinny cows......
We have to leave room for the possiblity that God will do something amazing before the time of the Anti Christs rule,
Yours Staff

Hi Dohman
Another way of putting it as I see it is that we have these two witnesses they are definitely two actual men but perhaps they are the head of a bigger organisation we do not know for sure.They get killed in the end but while they are prophesying they are almost untouchable and certainly cant be killed.
They witness for 3 1/2 years before marthydom so the marthydom isnt the be all and end all they had an untouchable ministry before their death.A ministry that was fully successful no doubt about that,A ministry that was immune from any lasting effects of persecution until their ministry was complete.Their ministry doesnt negate Greg's Scripture does it?On the face of it it does here are two men immune fro m persecution and if any attempt is made to persecute them then it falls back on their own heads and they dont succeed in persecuting them.What I am saying is that alot of people will find it to accept this time of success because it doesnt seem to follow their timeline of everything going from bad to worse to worse .The way I see it is that it will go from bad to worse to the best time in Christian History to the worst time ever in human history,
Yours Staff

"We have to leave room for the possiblity that God will do something amazing before the time of the Anti Christs rule."

I believe He will. I know in my heart, Jesus told me, that He is coming back very, very soon. There will be a worldwide awakening before that happens, I'm sure of that.

Hi Drifter

Thats all Im saying too

"I believe He will. I know in my heart, Jesus told me, that He is coming back very, very soon. There will be a worldwide awakening before that happens, I'm sure of that."

I think the good news is that even those who are skeptical of this happening will change their minds the same way John The Baptist in Prison did
John sent his disciples to ask are you the Christ or should we look for another?(he was confused has he only understood one coming and was waiting for the "winnowing fork is in his hand " Messiah)
Then Jesus told Johns disciples to tell him that the blind see and lame can walk and the deaf can hear.
When the most sure of Christians see these things happen they will accept the Good ......
Its easy to bring to attention scriptures that only tell of the downward nature of the world but we have to temper that with good news of the coming worldwide awakening,both can happen after all the darker it gets the brighter our witness shines
Yours Staff

Absolutely Staff. Sometimes all we can see is negativity, dark days coming. Horrible darkness is surely coming, but God is reviving His people like never before. I like how Leonard Ravenhill puts it, "A super Pentecost; a Pentecost that will out-Pentecost Pentecost."

The revivalists where postmillennialists.

Those like Edwards and Finney where motivated by there postmillinnial views , It is part of what motivated them to seek revival.

Finney believed that if the church would do her duty, that the Millennium would be ushered in, he also believed that if the church turned towards premillinalism that positive course would be jepordized.

I would say some revivalists were postmillenialist. Finney was wrong on a number of things. I know Finney was greatly used of God; however, sometimes people think that because he was used by God then all of his theological views must be correct. Did you know he was a vegetarian?

Leonard Ravenhill also saw revival. He was premillenialist (and I'm pretty sure he was pre trib too!) So was Wilkerson. He also saw revival.

(And let's please not get into another boring, fruitless debate about the rapture.)

Hi Drifter
The message that will cause this revival(awakening) is simple
Its the same message that was brought before Jesus Christ came the first time.Its a message that was so powerful everyone heard ,it was a message that sent 12 people out to look for the Messiah and then they found him.
The first thing Andrew did was to find his brother Simon and tell him, "We have found the Messiah" (that is, the Christ).
It was message heard by everyone in Judeah and the surrounds.
The message "Jesus is coming again,His winnowing fork is really in his hands this time its Judgement in the physical sense"
Once God infuses the Church with that message then the end.
God never brought Judgement without a warning and the last time God resolved to end the world he sent "Noah".So how can we then continue to believe that he wont send a "Noah" type warning when he is going to bring even a greater distruction upon mankind this time round.
God is the same today and forever so unless God has double standards then he will send a credible witness that will say clearly and in power "Judgement is Coming and it coming soon" ,
Yours Staff

Honest questions:

What gospel message happened before Jesus Christ's birth and ministry?

How many of the 12 disciples of Jesus went looking for Him?

Is it wrong to understand the proclamation of John the Baptist that Christ's winnowing fork is in His hand as applying to the gospel preached to Israel from then until now?

Has God not already "infused the church" with the message and the warning? If not, what was Jesus' commission and what was Pentecost?

Are not the warnings of the New Testament the warnings of judgment to come? Is Scripture not sufficient in this regard? Is the proclamation of the gospel not sufficient to warn over all the centuries and even more so now with communications technology being what it is? Is the warning ineffective for lack of content or for lack of messengers or for some other reason?
Is the gospel that we have head for 2,000 years, the commission of Jesus we have had for 2,000 years and the baptism of the Holy Spirit we have had for 2,000 years and the calling of men to proclaim it --- and the fact that they have done so all over the Earth --- not the "credible witness" you describe?

My Point is that there is absolutely no continuity in Church history concerning eschatology.

Yet everyone seems very dogmatic and assured that there view is correct.

From my research, not some, but most of the great awakening preachers where postmillennialist.

The lack of continuity in eschatology in the church coincided with the growing notion that Israel as a nation had been replaced in the redemptive plan of God. By the end of the first century after Christ's death, it was not uncommon for the church to refer to itself as the 12 tribes of Israel. More and more belivers began to follow the belief propogated by Justin Martyr that the church was now Israel and the central key to understaning eschatology, the nation of Israel and events surrounding it at the end of the age, began to diminsh from the church's understanding. Therefore every form of eschatological belief became acceptable as the prophecies regarding Israel became more and more to be seen as metaphorical and allegorical. All the curses toward Israel were seen as "literal" yet the blessings to finally overtake Israel at the end of the age were and still are seen by many as allegorical and not related to Israel and the Jewish people at all. It has basically led to the absurd notion that though every part of the Bible was inspired and recorded to help us understand God and His ways and His salvation the same can't be said for eschatology. Eschatology is said to be non understandable so just be ready. That's a illogical as well as unscriptural view nowhere advocated in the Bible. If the key nation has been replaced how can the church present a credible and unified end time witness as to events that will transpire?

A credible end time witness can be presented to the world through the examination and employment of prophetic scripture already fulfilled in Israel's history and the life of Jesus. By this, past prophecies already literally fulfilled in Israel's history and in the life of Jesus, hearers can be encouraged to consider the divine inspiration and inerrancy of the Bible and a confident harbinger for the future. If this credibility can be established, then the Jewish or Gentile believer can be asked to consider those messianic prophecies already fullfilled in the history of Israel and the life of Jesus as a basis of faith unto salvation!

"Yet everyone seems very dogmatic and assured that there view is correct."

Agreed. I personally am pre trib. I really don't care about other believers opinions on this subject; it doesn't affect your standing before the throne of God. Were most of the great awakening preachers postmillenialist? Okay. The revivals they had were not because they were postmillenialist; the same with, for example, Whitefield and Wesley. One was calvinist, the other arminian. They both were powerful preachers. Look through history, and you will find powerful, effective christians in every denomination, of every eschatological persuasion. You can have a mighty outpouring of the Spirit and still be wrong in some areas.

It seems the only prophetic scripture needed is Ps 22 and perhaps Is 53. You don't need any supposed end times prophecies to reach people with the gospel. If Ps 22 does not convince them from a prophetic standpoint, I don't know what will.

/It seems the only prophetic scripture needed is Ps 22 and perhaps Is 53. You don't need any supposed end times prophecies to reach people with the gospel. If Ps 22 does not convince them from a proohetic standpoint, I don't know what will./

So why go out with a half full quiver when the Bible is overflowing with fulfilled prophecies regarding Israel and Jesus? If Psalm 22 came to be literally fulfilled as well as Isaiah 53 then why can't people be convinced that the rest of the prophecies concerning Christ will also be literally fulfilled? If the Bible's totally accurate prophetic credibility can be established then it can open doors in the hearts of people to believe in Christ for salvation. The prophetic credibility asnd proven track record of the Bible and its prophecies are an untapped gold mine in evangelism. Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 are magnificent and perhaps central to a degree but why leave out prophecies regarding Christ's second advent? It's a great effort for the church to become unified around so as to present a credible witness.

Quote: "...but why leave out prophecies regarding Christ's second advent?"

I am not saying to leave them out but they should be way way way yonder down the list.

Hi Dolfan
Honest Answers:

Before Jesus Ministry came John The Baptist to make way for him.

John clearly didnt understand that Jesus didnt come to Judge.
Jesus said I didnt come to Judge but if I had My Judgement would be correct.John didnt understand that but he knew the Messiah was coming so he preached what he understood was going to happen and he put the prophesies about his first coming and second coming together.

Scripture is just words on a book unless it read out and proclaimed .So it isnt sufficient unless you have an Isiah or Jeremiah or Daniel or A Paul behind it.So lack of Messengers is the answer to your question.
The message of the gospel we have had is sufficient but the calling of the men to proclaim it is not sufficient.None of them have been called preach that Jesus is coming back "right now" only the Church in the very end will have that calling and be correct.So their witness is not credible because they were wrong if they preached he was coming back soon(as in right now) as he clearly didnt and it is not credible because it wasnt world wide at the same time .

What was Pentecost?
Ok unfortunately the biggest problem with Pentecostal believers is that they dont understand only half off whats going on at Pentecost.
Most importantly Pentecost comes from John The Baptist Not Jesus.Look at these verses the last few from ACTS 1 and The First verse From ACTS 2 but look at them together without the unfortunate chaper break that was put in.

21 Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus was living among us, 22 BEGINNING from JOHN'S BAPTISM to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection.”

1:23 So they nominated two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias. 24 Then they prayed, "Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen 25 to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs.” 26 Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.

2:1When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting

We can see that their could be no Pentecost unless their were a Full Twelve Apostles which had all come under Johns Baptism.So the last thing that happened before Pentecost is that the Apostles number was made back up to Twelve.This had to happen for an outpouring.

What I am saying is that that Outpouring has to happen again before the Church will be infused with the Message that Jesus is Coming back not just soon but almost Right Now.The difference however is that once infused with this message they will be correct unlike the generations of Christians over the last 2000 years.
Yours Staff
Extra Piece I would say all Apostle were looking for Jesus because the Apostles all came under Johns Ministry that they all were looking for him not just the obvious 3 guys mentioned.Look how easily they followed him they were all anxious waiting to see him,they were all made ready and prepared by John to be Jesus's Apostles.

Hi All
Earlier I Said This.....

God never brought Judgement without a warning and the last time God resolved to end the world he sent "Noah".So how can we then continue to believe that he wont send a "Noah" type warning when he is going to bring even a greater distruction upon mankind this time round

I see this wasnt commented on and I think its very hard to argue against

The New Testament is full of warnings that anyone could read or Preach out over the last 2000yrs,all of the scripture would be correct but their has to be a warning to the whole Earth right before its going to happen.In Noah's Case the People were warned over a relatively long period of time because they all lived longer.
Our God will go the extra mile to get one sheep.
Yours Staff

How will you distinguish between the specific type warning you are talking about and warnings in general that have been given since NT times? And why will people listen to this new "John the Baptist" type person?

Please note I am not trying to discredit your hypothesis but rather just wondering what will make this new preacher/prophet different than the many many very solid preachers/prophets over the last couple hundred years? Do you think he will be a miracle worker? What will grab peoples' attention?

Hi TMK
Thats an interesting question
The best way to answer is Why did anyone listen to the original John The Baptist?Why did the go a days journey out to hear him preach?Why did they consider him a Prophet or Holy Man when he did no miracles?
The answer must have something to do with him being Annointed and was clearly speaking with Authority that transmitted through him by the Holy Spirit.
Where did I get this is a question you may ask?Is it even a Hypothesis?Well I got saved in 1989 and in the early nineties I think aproximately I began to study intently binge studying you may say.God I believe started opening these scriptures up to me.I kept saying to myself what is this all about but each time it began to make great scriptural sense and great common sense as well.I have a very unusual end times view on a particular issue.I believe that both the Two Witnesses in Revelation have in some way "the Spirit of Elijah"So I dont hold to the view that its Elijah and Enoch or Elijah and Moses.
Its quite an easy subject in ways to study because the scripture involved is all quite logical and it makes common sense out of certain issues.
For isnstance Elijah,Elisha nd John The Baptist all have one thing in common /They all have the "Spirit of Elijah"
Thats the door in to studying the subject.Once you know that then you just look at all three men and you will see all the things they have in common and what it tells you about the future.
So I think I have answered you in a way .They will grab peoples attention and you have to remember both Elijah and Elisha were head of schools of Prophets so it was a big operation not just one or two.
Hey I know its a hard thing to accept but just study it yourself dont take my word for it...
Ask yourself Questions Like?
Why did Jesus say John was fulfilling something when he baptised him?What was he fulfilling?
Ask yourself Why did Peter insist on having Twelve Apostles in place that had come under Johns Ministry before Pentecost?
Study the subject of Restoration and The Spirit Of Elijah
Finally Write down everything Elijah and Mount Carmel and John The Baptist and Pentecost Have in Common.Just two columns side by side ,simple exercize .Its very revealing
You have to admit Elijah and John are two credible witnesses that we just dont have today.... If they were walking the Earth we would know about it
Yours Staff

What you are describing sounds like a Trump- but from a spiritual standpoint. Trump rocked both the establishment politicos and also the populace because he didn't couch his words.

John the Baptist did the same thing but he rocked the religious not political establishment and the people loved him because he was not afraid to slam the Pharisees who they despised.

So does that mean this person you are describing will be despised by mainstream religious leaders- even evangelical leaders- but loved by christians and sinners alike. I wonder what his message will be?

Hi TMK
I dont know the complete attraction to John The Baptist but I can hear a person give a message really articulatly and in fluent way and well prepared and listen to another give the same message but under annointing and thats the difference.
The Holy Spirit is with the message or ministry.and the timing will be right.Both Elijah and John spoke against the political establishment in Ahab and Herod so id probably say yes to that.

As for the message that will rock the world its simple
"Jesus is Coming back and hes coming right soon" the only difference is it will be right soon..
The message will be repent and be saved a whole lot of bad is around the corner(whether we go through the bad or not is irrelevant as I would rather go through the bad saved than not saved but id prefer to be saved and not go through the bad)
Whether the person is despised is answered I believe in Revelation
When the time of the Two Witnesses prophesy was over and they were killed the world rejoiced and gave presents to each other.
That begs three questions 1.What were they Prophesying?
Why were they partying?
How did the world have the resources to Party when it supposedly had gone through 3 1/2 years of hell?

The answers are I believe. They were prophesying the Second Coming or/and/either the rapture and the hell on Earth to come in the form of Gods Wrath
The World Partied because they thought with the Prophets dead nothing was going to happen and they were safe.
The Time of the Two witnesses is the time of 7 fat cows and resourses were plentiful...
Id be interested if anyone did try to do those two side by side comparison lists would it change their minds...
One last interesting question What was the trigger for Elijah the Tishbite to appear in the first place?Their was a specific trigger.
Yours Staff

The Early Writers where non Judeo-Centric chiliast though Justin Martyr acknowledges in his dialogue with trypho that the Church had members at that time that where Amillinalist.

Non Judeo-Centric Chiliasm was the main opinion of those whom wrote on the subject up untill around Augustine's time in which Amillinalism took over.

The Reformers as well as the Early Anabaptist where Amillinalist.

The revivalist where postmillinalist.

Than you have Darby Scofield dispensationalism

And now we have Judeo-Centric Chiliasm that rejects Darby and Scolfields rapture theory.

Absolutely no continuity.

clarity

One nite while we were preaching on the streets a brother spoke prophetically to some guy and told him that this was his last opportunity to repent and literally begged him to receive Jesus, his plea was turned down. That man jumped on his motor cycle rode less than 2 miles down Cleveland ave to his death.

The Spirit of The Church is The Spirit of Prophesy. Historically right before the fall of Jerusalem God raised up prophets to warn the people. He will be faithful to do the same. I like many here believe we will witness a great harvest of souls. I also believe believe we are headed for very troubling times. As I have stated before, I do not believe America will be here like we are today when the catching away happens. We will have been reduced to a loaf of bread, maybe like one of the poorest of nations. By than most of us will likely already be with Jesus.

Amen! Beautiful word, Frank.

" it pleased God to reveal His Son IN me, that I might preach Him"

Frank man that melted me. I am chewing on that for the next few days. Lord make me an eyewitness. Make it clear IN me so people may know FROM me that You are God.

Yes! Amen!!!

Timely word dear brother-
and I enjoyed the video as well:)

Hi
I think what Im saying their is room for all views here,
In the sense we can have the our personal witness shine out and save souls that way and we can accept that the world is on a downward spiral but we also have to accept that we need a "Noah" so that it is made clear that the end is coming and you need to get in the Ark before the judgement comes.
Again at the least we have to at this stage leave the possibility open that God will do something amazing before the Anti Christ has dominion.
We think and quite rightly that we are in the end times but the word has not gone out through the Spirit yet which will be anointed and authoritve and correct that Judgement is about to fall upon the Earth.
It may happen that as with Noah they wont listen and we wont see a huge influx of souls into the Kingdom but if Noah's Generation got a warning and if Nineveh(about Nineveh Only) got a warning that Judgement (Not in an individual personal sense)is about to come on the whole Earth then its safe to presume that this Generation will too.
We have not seen this date..
Jesus Said" as it was in the days of Noah..."
Yours Staff

Hi Frank
I agree with alot of what your saying,in the last 100 years voices have been saying this including most people on SI.
Nineveh got a second chance yes I agree in so much as it was delayed.Noah's Generation ran out of chances.
Tozer,Ravenhill and Wilkerson are great men used of God alongside others like Billy Graham have said and preached the time is near.The world has had wars and abortions I agree amd sin has been rampant along with anti semitism.
We havent however seen what I am talking about which is time similar to the six months or so John The Baptist preached before Jesus's Arrival.
Daniel's,Isaiahs and the Haggai's similar to the Tozers,Ravenhills and Wilkersons preached and prophesied the Messiah was coming but it was John The Baptist not them that created an expectancy through his annointing to do so and saw the Messiahs arrival.
I think we are going to see that time again,
Yours Staff

On my computer it starts on the last page...page 4.

Just check next to the post the date and time will reflect as well :)

When Israel began in earnest to return to the ancient land a prophetic sea change began to take place that is an undeniable witness to the total reliability of Biblical prophecy. No, things are not as they always have been while people and even large portions of the church mock and ridicule proclaim things are as they always have been so where is the promise of His return? The re-emergence of Israel is an incredible against all odds miracle that only. The end time scenario is impossible without a Jewish presence in the land and for the first time in almost two thousand years the church and the nations can gaze on such a scenario thus leaving them without excuse. How can we proclaim a credible witness? By pointing to the most credible and undenaible prophetic sign of fuflilled prophecy since the resurrection of Christ ans the events of 70 AD. It can be proclaimed in the most prophetically credible manner that the one whose atonement is at he heart of the redemptive plan will return to the nation He came to and ascended from and promised to return to. How can I know this will happen? In large part because this nation had to be there first and against all odds and opposition there it is! It lends great and undeniable credibility to our prophetic witness of what is to come and from which Jesus is the only safety. A very large and relevant miracle is staring us right in the face and it leaves us without excuse to deny it.