Why has Tuc been removed from the forum?

Hi moderators,

I noted that Tuc has been removed from the forum.

Did he request for his account to be removed from the website?

Otherwise, why has he been banned?

I also noticed that Tuc's recent thread, "I was wrong - I repent!", has been removed. It was originally located at: https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=58852&forum=34

While I had yet to read the removed thread in detail, what were the concerns that you had about Tuc's post? Scripture references would be appreciated.

Tuc has been a longstanding member of this forum for more than seven years. While I did not always agree with his views, he was a valued contributor to the forum. I have also enjoyed some personal correspondence with him in the past.

His removal is of great concern to me, and I trust there are other forum members who share the same concerns.

Can you elaborate specifically the concerns that you had about Tuc, and the rationale for his removal?

Hi Greg,

It is wrong of you to accuse me of having taken offense at your past decisions to remove forum members. I have always been civil and polite in asking for your perspective, and wanted to understand the specific reasons behind their removal.

Never have I publicly challenged the decision of the moderators in such instances. Even when I had reservations about the moderators' decisions, I have not once openly stated them on these forums.

In asking for the reasons behind Tuc's removal, my desire was for accountability, not to undermine the authority of the moderators. If Tuc had erred, it would benefit the community to know why and how he has erred.

The refusal to provide reasons for Tuc's removal feels like a silent execution. It feels cultish, and is not befitting of a Christian community.

I am disappointed by your responses.

For as long as I can remember I have sensed something "off" in Tuc's posts that is difficult to explain exactly. I have asked him to clarify many times but the queasy feeling has never left me.

It is entirely possible that I am simply too dense to understand exactly what he was saying.

That being said, I am not glad to see he is gone, but I do trust Greg's judgment. He is not required to go into great detail for the reasons he stated.

RE : /// Tuc's post were a bit lengthy to read. But I saw no heresy or error in them. His heart was always on one's identity in Jesus.///

I agree,

I observed him for years as I have all of the forum members. I am always searching for those whom are more sincere and more real than myself to learn from and grow from.

There was another member in the past that was attacked by the same crowd and that was jimp , and just the same his conduct was always far superior to his attackers.

Tuc's conduct was Superior to that of every member that ever attacked him, he did not attack back and seldom defended himself.

His main subject was as Bro Bear pointed out : "one's identity in Jesus."

He posted many articles from David Wilkerson, Charles Spurgeon, Watchman Nee, and Norman Grubb concerning that issue.

He also held to some views of Norman Grubb that are questionable.
But Norman Grubb is featured on SI.

PP-

How do you define "attacked?"

I ask because I don't recall anyone attacking Tuc, at least recently. There have been requests for clarification and some concern he was espousing hyper grace but I would not call that attacking.

In the great majority of cases I believe the dialogue had been respectful. I agree Tuc was never nasty.

"...We see the moderators take serious action against people who come with some dangerous ideology and keep posting in SI. Why is the same step not taken here?.."

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"..... Show me how your life is. If Tuc can post so much why not post his personal testimony? How about inviting others to come and see his family life, personal purity etc. If a life of Come and see is not there, then all the theology is total rubbish."

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"Tuc is dancing with Joseph Prince down a primrose path of deceit.

I wish someone would take each of Prince's books and write a page by page refutation. The man is evil. Tuc is a victim and many others are."

Tucs response :

"I do NOT listen to Joseph Prince nor do I read his books.

I really do not know that much about him and I have never recommended him to anyone.

Not sure why you said that."

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From all my readings and study of contemporary christianity, it seems you are either quoting or re-packaging Joseph Prince and others like him who are preaching what some are terming: Hyper Grace.

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It was not Joseph Prince it was Norman Grubb !

Ok PP I see what you mean.

But I still maintain there was subtle error in Tuc's posts.

Subtle is the key and perhaps most significant word to describe it. Don't ask me to explain it.

RE: /// But I still maintain there was subtle error in Tuc's posts.///

Bro Todd,

You of all people know what it is to be misconstrued and branded a heretic.

add : You have proposed some very questionable doctrines in the past yourself

edit clarity

I don't think tuc is a heretic- not by any means. I have never said any such thing.

I think Calvinism is major, not subtle, error and I don't think a Calvinist is a heretic.

Just because I disagree with someone does not mean I think they are a heretic.

The crazy thing is that I am not even sure I disagree with Tuc. I just never understood what he was saying, and I am a reasonably intelligent person.

I stopped reading tuc's posts a long time ago.

In my view, he was a hyper-grace promoter.

I never read anything worthy of the time it took, and if he did happen onto untainted truth from time to time I don't know it would have been recognizable.

He didn't bother me because I ignored him. Good habit. I am sure lots of folks develop it on my posts and probably should.

I personally welcome this move. I am sure there was a solid reason. I have always found some deception hidden in his post, something that normal eyes do not see. His posts always were on one topic and one agenda, which suggests that he comes to the forum with an agenda to spread some kind of teaching rather than to discuss and encourage others. The teachable spirit is something that most people in this forum lack.

The posts that were copied here as accusing Tuc were taken from my posts. I am totally fine with what I have posted. I do not believe the teachings that he promotes makes one holly. I am 100% sure the people who promote them are themselves living in open sin but hide everything with some imaginary doctrine.

Sree - Reading Tuc posts through the years you could see that he had been hurt by a particular doctrine.

His posting on here was an expression of what was going on in his life; the confusion and burden that a false doctrine brings; while seeking the truth on the matter that God does sanctify you wholly and also keeps you blameless.

We should all pray for Tuc that during this current sifting his faith doesn't fail.

Sree - Reading Tuc posts through the years you could see that he had been hurt by a particular doctrine.

His posting on here was an expression of what was going on in his life; the confusion and burden that a false doctrine brings; while seeking the truth on the matter that God does sanctify you wholly and also keeps you blameless.

We should all pray for Tuc that during this current sifting his faith doesn't fail.

I felt that Tuc understood that sanctification is not by trying harder, but that our sanctification is a gift from God. Our part was to reach out and grab this gift of sanctification by faith.

I believe that this was drawn from his own experiences, and he was trying to find the language to describe it. Many of his posts were drafts-in-progress, drawn from various sources - as Tuc tried to iron out the creases in his theological understanding, and put to words his own experiences.

As has been briefly alluded to by Proudpapa, Tuc enjoyed the writings of: A.B. Simpson, Andrew Murray, Hudson Taylor, Watchman Nee, David Wilkerson, Dan Stone, and many more.

I wasn't always in perfect agreement with his posts. But if you believe - as I do - that the gospel is about justification by faith, as well as sanctification by faith, then Tuc's enthusiasm was for the gospel (perhaps sometimes expressed in imperfect words, or with imperfect understanding).

I will miss Tuc.

One of Tuc's favorite sermons was :

Beware Of Dogs by David Wilkerson

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=3569&commentView=itemComments

I would highly recommend it to everyone.

With the exception of some exclusive views of Norman Grubb that Tuc held, the above sermon by David Wilkerson represents what Tuc was trying to convey.

The exact same sermon, can also be found on SI under the title : "The Key to understanding righteosness."

add : Tuc also posted a thread with the transcript of the above sermon : https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=55997&forum=34

by appolus on 2017/2/12 8:09:20

I find the posts that are somewhat gleeful and uncaring of the fact that TUC was removed quite sad.

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I felt exactly the same way. Very sad.

I'm just a bit concerned for his well being after being asked not to post. I'm not blaming anyone by the way. Its just the way we are as humans, and what happens in life. We are all buffeted in this world. We dont want to agree we are doing anything wrong or we are not in the right place, as its really difficult to deal with. But when we realise something bad is happening to us only then can we see things from the other side. Its like a revelation to us.
This happens to us in life.

I'm sure its done in a good way when people are asked not to post here and I think maybe people try to not agree that they have done anything out of order when asked to look at things from another point of view.

But its the day after and maybe for weeks after that people are probably feeling terrible about it. And will be asking the Lord for reconciliation.

I'm sure they would come back to this forum to see if anything is being written concerning it and they will see what people have been saying here. It can be crushing. So think about that.

I never agreed with the grace message to the point where the message of hard repentance is done away with. Taking the hard road the road that leads to life is important as well.

So if he comes back to read this thread I just want to say he is still loved for being somebody who wanted to share his faith and being determined for others to see a Christian way of living concerning the revelation of grace that he felt was the primary motivator for him.

I could fully understand what he was saying. I have walked in that life and have to regularly back down from too much of my own works. I just felt there were other things the Lord wants from our response to live the Christian life as expressed in the many sermons on here.

This portion of scripture really ministered to me this morning...and we all go through this at times...and should be grateful:

"Therefore let us also, seeing we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, lay aside every weight and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. For consider him who has endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, that you don`t grow weary, fainting in your souls.
You have not yet resisted to blood, striving against sin; and you have forgotten the exhortation which reasons with you as with sons, "My son, don`t take lightly the chastening of the Lord, Nor faint when you are reproved by him; For whom the Lord loves, he chastens, And scourges every son whom he receives." It is for discipline that you endure. God deals with you as with sons, for what son is there whom his father doesn`t discipline? But if you are without discipline, whereof all have been made partakers, then are you illegitimate, and not sons. Furthermore, we had the fathers of our flesh to chasten us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much rather be in subjection to the Father of spirits, and live? For they indeed, for a few days, punished us as seemed good to them; but he for our profit, that we may be partakers of his holiness. All chastening seems for the present to be not joyous but grievous; yet afterward it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been exercised thereby. Therefore, lift up the hands that hang down and the feeble knees, and make straight paths for your feet, that that which is lame may not be dislocated, but rather be healed. Follow after peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no man will see the Lord, looking carefully lest there be any man who falls short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby the many be defiled; lest there be any sexually immoral person, or profane person, as Esau, who sold his birthright for one meal. For you know that even when he afterward desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for a change of mind though he sought it diligently with tears."

Quote: I felt that Tuc understood that sanctification is not by trying harder, but that our sanctification is a gift from God. Our part was to reach out and grab this gift of sanctification by faith.

I believe that this was drawn from his own experiences, and he was trying to find the language to describe it.

I agree with you 100%; my post is more about when when I first started the journey on this forum; when I first came across Tuc.

My heart goes out to Tuc....

Greg has indicated twice now that there are reasons he does not feel comfortable disclosing.

Can we not trust him and just move on.

If some of you strongly agree with what Tuc was posting, start a thread about it so it can be discussed.

I agree with Todd.

Far too many opinions floating around here.

This is just an online forum. We don't even know much of any significance about any of us here and not anything at all about said 'tuc', such as name, location, gender, etc, so why get so bent up and dramatic as if it really is such a crisis! Surely if our whole spiritual world is in danger of falling apart because of not participating in the SI forum we need to ask what sort of spiritual life we have in the real world.

"My advice to Todd and Dave is just to relax, it was merely a comment, no need for hysteria or melo-drama."

Exactly Frank, I'm glad you agree! :)

Peter asked Jesus, "What about him, Lord?”

Jesus replied, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? As for you, follow me.”

John 21:21,22