Question for those who believe we are all being saved

I do not believe asking someone are you saved is a right question scripturaly, because Bible uses Salvation in all 3 tenses. Hence we are saved from the Penalty of our sins, being saved from the Power sin (Romans 6:14) and will be saved from the Presence sins (1 John 3:3). These are the 3 Ps of salvation. Which is scriptural. I believe there will be those who believe what I believe. I am not here to prove that I am right and rest of those who believe in only salvation in past tense are wrong. The purpose of this thread is not to argue with them.

But the question I have is for those who have the same belief as me towards salvation. If you sin and the Holy Spirit convicts you of your sins but you are unwilling to confess them, then are you on still on the way to salvation? What if you die in this unrepentant status?

My answer is no, I am not in the way of salvation if I harden my heart towards God, unwilling to repent from a sin that His Holy Spirit is convicting in me. The answer is backed by scripture,
1 John 1-9 - If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

So if I am unwilling to repent of a sin that God is convicting in my heart then I make him a liar. Only if I confess that sin then God cleanses me of all unrighteousness. 'All Unrighteousness' includes that were committed in the past and those committed out of ignorance (unconscious sins).

Personally I do not believe God will allow me to die in an unrepentant status. But that is my personal faith in God's faithfulness.

You have used two different words- repent and confess. Do you mean both, or just "confess?"

You have used two different words- repent and confess. Do you mean both, or just "confess?

I recently read this definition of repentance from David Pawson, he says a child gave this definition - "Repentance is to be sorry enough that you stop doing that sin". So confession is one of the essential step towards repentance. The prodigal son confessed his sins to his father before his father accepted him. But he decided to turn towards his father even before he confessed.

Plus there are certain besetting sins that lay hold of a person. He/she is aware of it and knows it is wrong and go through a process of confessing and perhaps repenting for a time yet stumbles and returns to that sin only to repeat the process.

A person who is not saved would not care about their sin at least to the extent of confessing and repenting.

Plus there are certain besetting sins that lay hold of a person. He/she is aware of it and knows it is wrong and go through a process of confessing and perhaps repenting for a time yet stumbles and returns to that sin only to repeat the process.

TMK, I am not concerned about the sins that a believer is battling in his spiritual life. As long as he is repenting from it each time he commits them,he is on the way to salvation.

But what if one day he decides not to repent and believe that he will continue committing such sins? I do not believe such person is anymore in the path to salvation.

A person who is not saved would not care about their sin at least to the extent of confessing and repenting.

One example is Romans 5-10:- For if, when we were enemies of God, we were reconciled to Him through the death of His Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through His life!

1 Cor 1:18 - For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

2 Cor 2:15 - For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing,

One is either saved or not saved. We are not working our way towards salvation

Apolos, like I said this thread is not for you. If you are honest, you will agree that you have to go for a twisted explanation of scriptures that I have posted about continuous salvation. There is no way you can give a straight forward explanation to them because your theology will be against those verses! But I am not restricted by any theology, I believe the Bible as it is. I can give a straightforward explanation to all these scriptures!

I do not believe in Man working his own salvation. I believe in God working on a progressive salvation. This is scriptural, that is why it is important to workout our salvation with fear and trembling as God is still working inside us His salvation.

I do not want this thread to be an argument against those who are blinded to certain scripture by man made theologies! Let those who are blind, continue being so. I have no intention to turn them.

My prayers are for any man caught up in such pride who believes that none is actually saved, meaning there is no such thing as assurance of salvation

This is your judgmental assumption that I have no assurance of salvation, just like how you call me arrogant!

I have the equal assurance of salvation if not more than any Calvinist who believes he cannot lose salvation. Like I said, if God is working his salvation in me, then why should I lack any assurance of salvation? It is only those who believe in man made theology are to be pitied because their understanding of salvation is not based on God's word.

Sree, where did you get such a teaching? Are you taken up with Catholicism?

This is the problem with you, since you derive your teaching from men and not based on scripture, you think the same about everyone else! At least try to understand that there are those who listen to the pure word of God and do not let man corrupted theology to guide them. Just because Catholics have corrupted certain belief, we cannot entirely discard a belief. Just like you even the cessionists disregard the gifts of Holy Spirit because certain Pentecostals have corrupted them. We all know who is at loss!

Brother Sree,

I confess that's exactly what I found the scriptures to teach as well- while I may not would word things the same as you do, I nonetheless have to agree with your findings on this. Having said that, it's a subject that I have found to be quite contentious (as you obviously have as well) and so I don't speak of it too often and so I appreciate your initial disclaimer and desire to avoid contentions:)

The question you pose is the same one I was/am confronted by and the current conclusion is that, no they would not "remained" saved if they died in unrepentant sin. Tho I always hold out hope for Gods mercy :)

I don't have a heart to argue either so I won't post scriptures and such but at least know you're not alone in your beliefs ~

For me the following Scripture refutes the idea that Christians are on a constant path of being saved one minute and lost the next and resaved the next and so on and so forth.

1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3And this will we do, if God permit. 4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

"If you trust to your faith and to your repentance, you will be as much lost as if you trusted to your good works or trusted to your sins. The ground of your salvation is not faith, but Christ; it is not repentance, but Christ. If I trust my trust of Christ, I am lost. My business is to trust Christ; to rest on him; to depend, not on what the Spirit has done in me, but what Christ did for me, when he did hang upon the tree. Now be it known unto you, that when Christ died, he took the sins of all his people upon his head, and there and then they all ceased to be. At the moment when Christ died, the sins of all his redeemed were blotted out." CH Spurgeon

For me the following Scripture refutes the idea that Christians are on a constant path of being saved one minute and lost the next and resaved the next and so on and so forth.

PP, you comment is oxymoron. If we are on the path of being saved then there is no question of resaved. Imagine if you are traveling somewhere with the help of a GPS which guides you in the right direction. But if you miss an exist, you are not in the path of the destination until you come back to the path that GPS directs you. If you are unwilling to comeback, then you will end up with some other destination even though you had a GPS!

Now can you please explain further how Hebrews 6 that you have quoted here supports your theory that there is no need for repentance? I see that the scripture (Heb 6) strongly supporting my argument. Just because the scripture emphasis the need for repentance, it does not mean that we put our trust on repentance. Our trust is still in the Lord who forgives us. Further even in the quote, I do not see Spurgeon telling us not to repent. He is only telling us not to put our trust in repentance.

Let God alone be true and every man a liar, no matter even if his name is Spurgeon! If Jesus himself taught us daily to ask for forgiveness (Matt 6:12) in our prayers then I will trust him rather than a preacher who teaches me otherwise! Again let God alone be true.

1 John 1:9 is very clear, there is a condition for forgiveness of our sins. If God adds a condition then let no man think that he is wise enough to remove the condition.

Having said that, it's a subject that I have found to be quite contentious (as you obviously have as well) and so I don't speak of it too often and so I appreciate your initial disclaimer and desire to avoid contentions:)

Brother Fletcher (JFW), yes it is contentious because people are so much caught up with their doctrine that the moment I bring those scriptures (that talks about salvation in continuous tense), they start to accuse us! That is why I restricted the discussion to those who are not blind towards the scriptures that talks about being saved. Rest of them can close their eyes towards this thread, just like how they close their eyes to the scriptures that I have quoted on being saved!

The question you pose is the same one I was/am confronted by and the current conclusion is that, no they would not "remained" saved if they died in unrepentant sin. Tho I always hold out hope for Gods mercy :)

One does not need to reduce God's standard to believe in security. I hold God's standard as held by scripture. I also have eternal security.

Jude - 20 But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.

After telling us to "build yourself in holy faith", "keep yourselves in God's love", Jude ends in saying it is by God's mercy we receive eternal life for which we have to wait! So our trust is in God's mercy even though we have to build ourself in faith and God's love.

That is why the elders in Revelation are given crowns to honor their work of faith, but they cast it at the Lords feat because it was His Mercy that they received eternal life.

RE : /// 1 Cor 1:18 - For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

2 Cor 2:15 - For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing,///

King James Bible :

1 Cor 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

2 Cor 2:15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

From my research the "who are being" that is in the NASB of the above Scriptures seem to not be in the Greek

http://www.biblestudytools.com/interlinear-bible/passage/?q=2+corinthians+2:15&t=nas

http://www.biblestudytools.com/interlinear-bible/passage/?q=1+corinthians+1:18&t=nas

clarity

Is Jesus our "SAVIOR" today and not our " SAVIOR" tomorrow?
Did He die such a horrible death,just for 1day ?

What did He mean when He cried out, "it is finished",... It was finished what He had to do to make ' a way' for us.He died,(Blood for us,...sacrifice,...an entrance, was made for us,....He showed us "the way",by The Words that He spoke/ preached,..and now put's His Name/Word/Spirit, within us.
We are called by "His Name", ( His Word,..the Seed) that He puts within our hearts, to draw us unto Him,... ( to Him,.(The Word,The Spirit)

Then and now,He sends back The Holy Spirit,... Power, Spirit,Word,to live,..give us 'Life' within,...and over flowing without-allowing Him to resurrect out of us.

Is there no strength in this Holy Savior?Has His arm been shortened, that He cannot save,....all day long His arm is stretched out to save.
Is He just Jesus,without His Word,Spirit,with power...,and not savior tomorrow and the next day [s] and all times ?

If I were drowning today, I would need a Savior,and if I were drowning the next and the next, would'nt we need a Savior ?

This,...our precious Savior,came to 'live',...have His Resurrected Life' in us.
(The kingdom of God,Life)..(the resurrected Lord in us) through His Spirit-

Paul said,in Rom..10:13, " For all who shall call upon "the Name"
of The Lord,shall be saved."

The Name of The Lord, ..Jesus,and His Father, God' Name,is the Whole Word of God,...the whole counsel of God,....all of His righteous judgements, truth.
If we,through the saving Grace of God, see that we are not alineing with
His Spirit / Word that is drawing us,...even if this grace has grown very weak,..THEN we can call upon the Name of The Lord,and He will save us,be Savior to us,..

This is just one Example: I had a bad case of unforgiveness in my heart,and The Lord'Spirit,...confirming it through His Word,showed me that I MUST forgive,maybe not what I did to them,but how I handled it,..my over- flow,....well, I JUST COULD NOT !

So I just cried out to The Lord, and told Him that His Word was right,and I was wrong,....His Name is to forgive,but that I just could not.
( I called upon The Name of The Lord, which is part of the Whole/One of His Name,..and He graciously "saved" me from that sin,and put love in it's place.)..and that is not the only time that I had or still have to call upon His Name,,...He wants to save,be a savior,to what He is, His Word,..His Name.(Hallow be Thy Name),..in us.

It is not my will,of my flesh to offend,..ever,

---------------
elizabeth

From my research the "who are being" that is in the NASB of the above Scriptures seem to not be in the Greek

Romans 5:10 is still reads as 'Shall be saved' in KJV as well. Also Mark 13:13.

A person who is educated in Greek research told me recently that in Greek it is always 'being saved' in all the scriptures. According to him salvation is never represented in Past tense in Greek Bible.

I go by what my Bible says.

PP, I am yet to hear your explanation of Hebrews 6 in supporting your view.

When the scriptures talk about salvation in continuous terms, it is speaking of sanctification.

I agree with this statement completely. But what I cannot agree is even after saying this, you still separate salvation and Sanctification as 2 different thing. If our sanctification is also a part of being saved. Then we are not completely saved till we are sanctified.

My own contention is that one can lose their salvation by walking away from the Lord and turning ones back on Him. This, Hebrews 6, will testify to. It does not refer to an un-confessed sin or sins, whereby if one is hit by a bus before confessing it, then dies and goes to hell. There are no Scriptures to support such a view.

In recent times, I am discussing with a fellow brother who believes in Continuous salvation (he is different from you in this point only). He believes in man losing salvation (just like you). But he also believes in what you just said, that it happens only when he totally stops believing in Jesus.

For example in my case where I came from Hindu religion, he feels that I will lose my salvation only if I go back to Hindu Gods. No sin can change me from being saved. This is his point.

I find a big hole in his logic. But I am struggling to show him this big hole.

RE : ///... I do not see Spurgeon telling us not to repent. He is only telling us not to put our trust in repentance.///

I agree.

RE : /// 1 John 1:9 is very clear, there is a condition for forgiveness of our sins. If God adds a condition then let no man think that he is wise enough to remove the condition. ///

When my children disobey me our relationship is temporarily hindered.

For the purpose of restoration of our relationship, (If there realization of my love for them does not do so first). I as A loving father will chastise them back to obedience,
When one method of chastisement does not work, I resort to a different method. They can be assured that I as a Loving Father will chastise them and Love them back to obedience and relationship.

When they disobey me though our relationship has been temporarily hindered they did not temporarily stop being my children nor did I stop loving them.

Them being my children does not switch of and on depending on rather or not they have yet to ask me for forgiveness.

RE : /// PP, I am yet to hear your explanation of Hebrews 6 in supporting your view.///

My point was : "...refutes the idea that Christians are on a constant path of being saved one minute and lost the next and resaved the next and so on and so forth."

Bro Frank understood clearly how that Scripture relates to this discussion , and how it supports my view.

When my children disobey me our relationship is temporarily hindered.

I really appreciate the illustration you have used. I use lot of illustrations as well so like it when others do the same.

But what if your Child does not ask for forgiveness at all? In prodigal son's case, the father did not go after his Son until the son turned towards the father. I am sure the father would have frequently got news about the sons struggles. But he choose not to visit him or help him until he came to his senses. If the son never turned to father then I do not see the father going after the son at any stage. Yes the father and Son relationship did not break even when the son went away willingly. But the relationship was restored only when the son choose to turn back.

To me, Hebrews 6 tells that at some stage it will be impossible for us to repent. Impossible for the prodigals to turn back to father if they kept hardening their hearts.

RE : /// I really appreciate the illustration you have used. I use lot of illustrations as well so like it when others do the same.///

Thank you for the kind words.

RE : /// But what if your Child does not ask for forgiveness at all?///

The Love that I have for my children is based on the fact that they are my children and not on there performance.

As a loving father, I desire that my love for them will motivate them to obey me.
But in those incidents that It does not I will out of Love for them chastise them back into obedience.

As far as my children are concerned, I can can say of them that :
If my children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments; If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments; Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from them ,.."

(p.s. I changed some of the pronouns to make it applicable to my personal relationship with my own children.)

RE: /// In prodigal son's case, the father did not go after his Son until the son turned towards the father. I am sure the father would have frequently got news about the sons struggles. But he choose not to visit him or help him until he came to his senses. If the son never turned to father then I do not see the father going after the son at any stage. Yes the father and Son relationship did not break even when the son went away willingly. But the relationship was restored only when the son choose to turn back.///

The struggles that the son brought on himself, led the son back to the father, sometimes the hand of protection and provision must be removed temporarily for the purpose of drawing the child back home.

RE: /// To me, Hebrews 6 tells that at some stage it will be impossible for us to repent. Impossible for the prodigals to turn back to father if they kept hardening their hearts.///

Hebrews 6 seems to me to teach that : 'it is impossible' for someone "to fall away" and than be renewed.

If I am understanding your position correctly : you are implying that Christians : depending on there current repentance/confession status are in a constant process of "falling away" from the path of salvation and must be constantly renewed to the path of salvation by asking for forgiveness.

I agree with this statement completely. But what I cannot agree is even after saying this, you still separate salvation and Sanctification as 2 different thing. If our sanctification is also a part of being saved. Then we are not completely saved till we are sanctified.

Apolos, when you find time, can you please answer this above quoute of mine? I am not trying to prove you wrong or prove myself right. I am trying to understand the fellow brother of mine, who has similar understanding of you.

I want to know what is the reasoning behind separating sanctification from salvation when the scripture itself does not do so. You also agreed that the scripture considers sanctification as a part of salvation.

Isn't there salvation with a capital "S" and salvation with a lower case "s?"

Jesus took the penalty of our sin which is a one time transaction but He is also saving us FROM our sins. After all, that is why he was named Jesus.

Add: the issue is whether the one time transaction portion can be negated. Like Frank I believe it can but it would take renunciation, not mere negligence. I believe this is exceedingly rare.

The bigger and more important question is whether the one time transaction ever occurred.

HI Sree, I think much of what we speak of is semantics and probably there is a lot of agreement but maybe lost in the translation of this two dimentional medium.

Yup, that is how it appears! Thank you for taking time to explain your stand.

I can see no Scriptural evidence for a man being in a half saved state.

I am of the same opinion regarding the three statements of salvation, Saved, Being Saved, Shall be Saved.

I believe all three are true statements at the same time.
We are saved at the moment of confession and belief.

Romans 10:9-10 KJV That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Salvation requires an endurance, continuation, and remaining in the faith.

Matthew 24:13 KJV But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

John 8:31 KJV Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

It appears everyone is in agreement that one can lose their salvation if they do not endure to the end and continue in following and obeying the word of God.

While it has been said that those who would turn away are few and far between, I truly hope that is the truth. But the scriptures speak of the word Many, which will turn away.

John 6:66 KJV From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

If people who walked with Jesus and saw the miracles could turn away I would not want to be foolish enough to think that even I myself wouldn't turn.

So for me, it is very sobering and this whole idea of losing one's salvation actually helps me to be watchful, prayerful, sober, and vigilant not thinking of myself more highly than I ought.

My understanding in no way minimizes the faithfulness of Jesus Christ and all the promises we find in the word concerning His part in the whole salvation process.

It's funny when I see two sides of a subject like this being debated and yet I agree with both sides. Both sides are saying essentially the same thing but there tends to be division and strife. At least that is how I see it, not making any accusations or trying to stir the pot.

So many times it boils down to semantics, both sides are really in agreement but approaching the truth from different perspectives.

So when we look at the 3 statements of Saved, Being Saved, and Shall Be Saved they are all true at the same time.

These are just my simple thoughts.

Unfortunately, I do not have the time to read all the responses here, but let me share an issue I am presently having to deal with. (I agree with the OP and his subsequent replies.)

Last fall a relative of mine thought she was at death's door and asked for some people to come in to make confessions for wrongs inflicted upon them by her. Forgiveness was granted.

However, as time went on she recovered. But we saw no repentance - no evidence, but she continued with her sins of anger, lying, being profane. In confronting her she will blame you for your lack of forgiveness and is a fine example of narcissism.

Personally, this evoked for me such a serious spiritual struggle the like I have never before experienced in my life. Then one day we read Ezekiel 3 in our devotions and I felt I needed to go talk to her. I did with the result in a complete disaster. Now, I felt a sense of peace of having done what the scripture tells me to do. And...I wait on the Lord - the next move is His'.

If one could see evidence of repentance, a complete change of mind, lifestyle acceptance of the past could easily be 'forgotten' but as it is you know this is her modus operandi and so one needs to be on guard at all times.

Just a story/testimony.

Sandra

Thier is a process for the one that has been set free.

I agree with most of the things you have written. I also believe that sanctification is a process. The Bible never talks about instant sanctification. If it promises that then I will be willing to say that Bible is a lie, because it is not true in my life. I would rather go back to Hindu faith than trusting a book with false promise!

We should also be careful not to get caught with reality. Both ignoring reality and totally getting caught with reality are wrong. The truth is always in the middle. No matter how many times I fall, I will still believe that when I repent and come, I am in the process of being sanctified. 1 John 3 :3 says that he who has the hope that he will become like Jesus one day will keep cleansing himself of all unrighteousness. As long as I keep repenting and cleansing myself, I am on that way with Hope. If I stop repenting, I have lost hope. That is what I interpret from that scripture.

James says that without Hope we get nothing!

I am not sure if it was a coincidence, I read about emancipation proclamation last night from DL Moody!

t's funny when I see two sides of a subject like this being debated and yet I agree with both sides. Both sides are saying essentially the same thing but there tends to be division and strife. At least that is how I see it, not making any accusations or trying to stir the pot.

dfella- I agree with what you have said. I am in total agreement with using salvation in past tense. When the scripture uses salvation in past tense, what authority do I have to say it is wrong? But I do not want to stop with that saying salvation is ONLY in past tense. Throughout my post where ever possible I was putting the word ONLY.

If someone believes that salvation is thing of past only then I am not in agreement with them.

If someone asks me if I am saved, my answer will be 'yes my sins are forgiven, I am saved from their penalty'. Personally I do not believe it is the right question to ask.

My understanding in no way minimizes the faithfulness of Jesus Christ and all the promises we find in the word concerning His part in the whole salvation process.

Exactly, that is my point in the whole arguments. Jest because I believe in being saved, it does NOT mean that I lack Eternal Security.

Eternal security comes from our confidence in God and his promises, not in believing a theology.

2 Tim 1:12-For this reason, even though I suffer as I do, I am not ashamed; for I know whom I have believed, and I am convinced that He is able to guard what I have entrusted to Him for that day.

Our confidence should be in knowing him whom we believed. Not in our theology.

I appreciate your post sister Sandra. Personally I want to apply this to my own walk with Jesus. Am I still in the process of being saved.

I wounder if this could help us in more further understanding this topic being discussed ?

"..Some people, when they use the word "salvation," understand nothing more by it than deliverance from hell and admittance into heaven. Now, that is not salvation: those two things are the effects of salvation. We are redeemed from hell because we are saved, and we enter heaven because we have been saved beforehand. Our everlasting state is the effect of salvation in this life. Salvation, it is true, includes all that, because salvation is the mother of it, and carrieth it within its bowels; but still it were wrong for us to imagine that that is all the meaning of the word. Salvation begins with us as wandering sheep; it follows us through all our mazy wanderings; it puts us on the shoulders of the shepherd; it carries us into the fold; it calls together the friends and the neighbors; it rejoices over us; it preserves us in that fold through life; and then at last it brings us to the green pastures of heaven, beside the still waters of bliss, where we lie down for ever, in the presence of the Chief Shepherd, never more to be disturbed..." - Spurgeon

...1 Cor 1:18 - For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

2 Cor 2:15 - For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing,...

Does "being saved" not indicate the process we still go through on earth? In other words, we all know that we are still going through a process of "soul restoration" or "renewing of the mind" as well as that we await our perfect glorified bodies from heaven at Christ's return.
So we have the Holy Spirit as a surety, a deposit of our full salvation to be revealed at Christ's coming.
and of course, as Peter says, our faith is tested by trials, as through fire, to prove it's enduring value.

If my salvation depended solely on me, I would be of all men most miserable, as I would be falling in and out every day. However, once having committed my life to the Savior, Jesus Christ, I rest in His faithfulness toward me and the covenant between Him and the Father, to perfect that which concerns me. Did not Jesus say He would lose not one of those the Father gave Him?

Of course, I also agree that we should conduct ourselves in reverence and respect in our time on earth, working out our salvation with fear and trembling and not neglecting so great a salvation!

Perhaps some examples from the OT would help?
As in the journey of Israel from the Passover through the desert and , at last, into the Promised land: That was a salvation process right there.
And who ended up walking into the fulfilment of the promise? Those who continued in faith and obedience...those who followed Joshua(type of Jesus)

It's interesting that you bring up the Passover and Exodus as these also speak to me on this subject:)

A couple of examples from scripture ;

\t
1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall

While they had "been saved" from captivity and bondage etc... they seemed to fail in "being saved" for various reasons and consequently never entered the promised land "future tense" .... in fact if my memory serves me correctly out of the 2.2 million (or so) that were delivered only a few (from that generation) actually entered in whereas the others perished along the way as we see here -

But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Notice the strategic placement of the "if"'s so as to promote the idea of a conditional salvation, one which requires not only our sincere participation but also our growing or maturing in and through faith. I know this is a wildly unpopular idea and most would prefer a more passive, "the devil made me do it" and "Jesus did it for me so I don't have to" ideology but without openly disregarding huge tracts of scripture this is not to be found. It's strange to me that people don't take head at the many warnings given to us in the scriptures. I mean God isn't playing, this is not a joke to Him and I sometimes feel as tho we lose sight (down here) on just how serious He takes it....I would imagine the 2.2 million He "saved" and delivered and kept. Bringing them out of Egypt only to destroy 25,000 of them in one day because He got tired of there complaining,... I imagine they very much wish they had feared Him and taken His cause more serious and I honestly believe it'll be far worse for most of us in "the church", namely because we have the whole Bible and the testimonies therein and yet we fall by the same examples of evil unbelief:(
Kinda crazy when you stop and think about it

Sree, I believe your answer could be found in Ezekiel 33. Same principle apply in NT.

Sister Fifi,

It had been quite a while since I had read that chapter, tho indeed it does speak clearly to and definitively on the question brother Sree posed. Thanks for humbly suggesting a reading of that chapter:)

You say they had "been saved" from captivity and bondage but they seemed to fail in "being saved" and never entered the promised land. Are you of the opinion that they were lost forever?

Brother Matt,

That's a good question and at the end of the day only God knows,... having said that there are many analogous situations that translate directly into the new covenant. Tho from a purely textual position citing Numbers 16,
Jude 1:11 etc... yes I do believe the scriptures teach that those whom God Himself destroyed are lost, as for those whom died apart from the Lords hand directly causing it, I cannot speak to that tho I believe Him to be full of mercy :)

Another example (for me) is when in Exodus 32 Moses (at the word of the Lord) commanded Aaron and his sons to slay all whom had bowed before the golden calf,... those also I believe are lost-

Tho I have heard it taught that when Jesus, leading captivity captive, preached to those whom were dead that it was possible some of those who responded were the same who fell in the wilderness. To this I cannot speak definitively as I haven't found enough scriptural evidence to support nor deny this claim, but again the words used in Jude 1:11 and Numbers 16:33 seem (to me) to be indicative of finality, especially when we look up the definitions to the terms "perished" in both Hebrew and Greek.

Hope that helps to clarify and am certainly open to any light you may share:)