Has America Passed the Point of No Return?

By Michael Brown

Is it too late for America? Are the nation’s best days behind us? Can our sickly country be saved?

On July 1, 2016, conservative author and filmmaker Dinesh D’Souza sent out an email titled, "On The Brink Of Losing America Forever,” and it certainly feels that we are that close. But have we passed the point of no return?

We could all point to a virtual mountain of sins and crimes that are rampant in our country, including the killing of more than 55 million babies in the womb. We could all indict America on many fronts. That is easy to do. But has Almighty God written us off forever?

As we celebrate the 241st anniversary of our nation this July 4th, this is the most important question we can ask. Everything else is secondary. Can America be saved?

In my first book on revival, written in 1989, I asked, "Is God through with America? Is He ready to spew us out of His mouth? Is it too late for revival? Is our country ready to die?”

Now, almost 40 years later, these questions are much more urgent. Do we realize how much farther we have fallen?

We Need a Great Awakening
I have asked these questions again in my newest book, Saving a Sick America: A Prescription for Moral and Cultural Reformation, due out in September. It is a book filled with great hope for our future. But it is a hope based in realism, since we will never get healthy unless we realize just how sick we are.

To use a physical analogy, America has cancer, and without radical treatment, that cancer will soon be terminal. But with major medical intervention and a total change of lifestyle, the prognosis is promising. How will we respond? Taking a pill and taking a nap will not cure our condition. Trying to eat a little better won’t reverse a mortal disease.

In the same way, a nice church service won’t turn the tide, a lovely sermon won’t awaken us, and a casual prayer meeting won’t stir us from our stupor. We need a sense of desperation and urgency. Do we have it? Are we praying and crying out and making changes in our own lives as if America hung in the balance?

We should recognize that this is the perfect opportunity for the church of Jesus to rise up in the truth and power of the Spirit.

We need another great awakening ”” a massive, spiritual revival ”” but a national awakening will not come up without national desperation. How hungry are we? How urgent are our prayers? How intense is our desire for God to visit our nation? Do we realize how sick we are?

In the introductory chapter to Saving a Sick America, I wanted to paint a picture of just how far we had fallen, and do so in just a few pages. How could I drive this home? While giving this prayerful consideration one day, everything became clear. I would tell the story of an all-American dad who fell asleep while watching Leave It to Beaver with his family in 1961, only to wake up in 2017. The changes are stark and shocking and disturbing. How did we get from there to here?

But my goal in that chapter (and in the book as a whole) was not to depress us or discourage us. Instead, my goal was to awaken us to the urgency of the hour so that we will turn to God with urgency and make urgent changes in our lives.

It’s Not Too Late
It is not too late for America unless we make it too late by our complacency and carnality and indifference. But if we will turn to God with all our heart and soul, our best days could be ahead, as preposterous as that may sound.

That’s why the last chapter of the book is called, "The Church’s Great Opportunity.” There I tell the story of an American shoe company that decided to expand overseas, sending their best salesman to start a new branch in Africa. Before he arrived, the company spent years in strategic planning, targeting this particular region as ideal for their global expansion and shipping thousands of boxes of shoes to their huge new warehouse. But within hours of the salesman’s arrival, he called the company headquarters in a panic. "Get me out of here!” he exclaimed. "No one here wears shoes!”

They flew him home immediately, temporarily halting their plans, then met as leaders to reevaluate their strategy. After lengthy discussion, they decided that their plan was sound, sending their second-best salesman.

Once again, within hours of his arrival, the salesman called headquarters with an urgent message, but this time his tone was very different. "We need thousands more boxes of shoes!” he exclaimed. "Nobody here has any shoes!” That is the mentality we must embrace here in the USA today in the midst of massive societal decline.Everyone needs what we have to offer.

Don’t Minimize the Urgency
As I wrote in Saving a Sick America:

Without a doubt, our nation is desperately sick, on the edge of spiraling into moral and cultural chaos. And without a doubt, much of the church is backslidden, having been seduced into apathy, lethargy, and carnality by a compromised, watered down ‘gospel’ and by the endless temptations of the age. In many ways, these are dark days for our country spiritually and morally, and we must not minimize the urgency of the hour. But rather than throw our hands up in despair, we should recognize that this is the perfect opportunity for the church of Jesus to rise up in the truth and power of the Spirit, bringing the message of life and transformation to our very sick country. This is the church’s great opportunity. This is our time to stand.

By God’s grace, I’m determined to stand strong, to speak the truth and live the truth, regardless of cost or consequence, and to turn to God will all my heart. Can we stand together? Do we really have a choice?

I truly believe that America can still be saved, but only if we do not minimize the urgency of the hour.

In every generation, the Lord has always had a praying remnant of believers who keep the testimony of Jesus. I am posting a clip that I recently heard from David Wilkerson about God raising up a holy remnant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJYHHXb5puU&t=7s

There are still many souls that need Jesus in this nation, countless people who are desperate for deliverance from their bondages. The question is, are we willing to pay to the price to be a part of the end-time army that will enforce the Lordship of Jesus Christ, that which He obtained by His own precious blood?

Psalm 4:3 But know that the Lord has set apart for Himself him who is godly; the Lord will hear when I call to Him.

"The question is, are we willing to pay to the price to be a part of the end-time army that will enforce the Lordship of Jesus Christ, that which He obtained by His own precious blood?"

Amen Renee! You stated clearly the real
Issue.

I truly believe that America can still be saved, but only if we do not minimize the urgency of the hour.

Can someone give me a scripture from New Covenant that says an entire country has to be saved?

Can someone give me a scripture from New Covenant that says an entire country has to be saved?

Brother, a nation can be saved in the sense that through intercession and repentance judgment can be averted. We are not talking about the salvation of all that is in the nation or that even the majority of the people would be saved. God has always moved and worked through a remnant, and those that intercede and that are on the wall of intercession are a remnant of Christians.

There are many examples in the bible where God did not destroy a nation because of men of God standing in the gap and making up the hedge.

God told Moses that he would wipe out the people because of their rebellion, and Moses interceded, and God changed his mind and cancelled the judgment.

God would have spared Sodom and Gomorrah for the sake of 10 righteous people.

God had Jonah preach to the people of Nineveh, so that that nation would be saved or spared.

God promises us in His Word that He would heal our land if we would fulfill the conditions in 2 Chronicles 7:14.

God would rather show mercy than judgment. It is not the will of God for men to perish, but to come to salvation. It is not the will of the Lord to destroy any nation, if God's people in that nation will humble themselves and pray, seek the face of the Lord, and turn from their wicked ways. (repent).

Brother, a nation can be saved in the sense that through intercession and repentance judgment can be averted.

My question is who in the nation should repent? I do not believe there is a single example of a nation repenting or even asked to repent in New Covenant.

It is the churches in the nation that should repent. Why will the gays, aborting mothers, etc repent in USA just because some Christian leader is asking America to Repent? They will not.

But if the Church that is corrupted with all the sins practiced in USA, if they repent and turn to God, then through the pure testimony of the Church, people will repent. Hence all these letters should be addressed to Churches. Jesus himself did not write any letter to any region (nation) in the book of Revelation. He only wrote to Churches, but today all the modern day pastors, just address the whole nation!

America is nothing special compared to any heathen nation in this world. I am happy about the religious freedom I have in USA which I do not get in my heathen nation. But other than that, I do not think America is in anyway special to God. It is not a nation of God's chosen people. I believe every preacher who writes about these 'America should repent', deep in their heart, they think America is God's chosen nation or in someway special to God.

Agreeing with Daniel (Daniel 12:1), Jesus prophesied this evil age would end in a time of trouble such as has never occurred and never will again. I always wonder how the pleas and admonitions for revival in America fit into the final scenario for the end of the age Jesus presented. If we have a revival, and certainly we do need one, it's almost as if the thinking is this will get us around a final time of trouble. In the end of this age apostasy will dramatically increase and the line between the righteous and the wicked will become more pronounced. If we have revival will the church still be willing to stand with Israel while the world is going to increasingly turn against and sanction that nation? I'm all for revival but then what? Will America supposedly being a shining beacon on a hill again change the course of prophecy? This world and the kingdom of God are on a collision course beginning to run headlong into each other more and more each day. So America has revival and becomes great again. Then what?

"My question is who in the nation should repent? I do not believe there is a single example of a nation repenting or even asked to repent in New Covenant."

The sinners are not going to repent. Revival is not going to come from the government, and men's hearts will not change even if we outlaw abortion and same sex marriage.

It is up to the Church to repent. Judgment must begin in the House of God. We must first judge ourselves. Revival begins with a revived Church. I don't know how much repentance is required to hold back God's hand of judgment.

Some of you need to hear the revival teaching by Brother Orr. Many of the greatest revivals in history have occurred when there seemed to be no hope but certain judgment from God. During these times of darkness and moral depravity that we are seeing in this nation today, the Holy Spirit is always moving on the hearts of intercessors to stand in the gap, and repent on behalf of the people so that He can spare them. It doesn't always come from large numbers either.

It is a total lack of faith and not understanding the responsibility of the Church to be salt and light, and to stand for righteousness and stand against evil, that causes many saints, just like some of you, to have the attitude that says, why pray, judgment is coming anyway. We are in a warfare and the call is going out to get engaged. We can choose to be part of the answer or part of the problem. Jesus has already won the victory. He has given His Church authority and power to bind and to loose. God is not going to do anything on the earth apart from His Church (Body of Christ). If we die, we die fighting, and not giving up in unbelief. So the ultimate responsibility of the destiny of this nation has been given to the Church.

Isa 1:4
Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.
Isa 1:5
Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.
Isa 1:6
From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.
Isa 1:7
Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers.
Isa 1:8
And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city.
Isa 1:9
Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.
Isa 1:10
Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
Isa 1:11
To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
Isa 1:12
When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
Isa 1:13
Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
Isa 1:14
Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
Isa 1:15
And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.
Isa 1:16
Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
Isa 1:17
Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
Isa 1:18
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
Isa 1:19
If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
Isa 1:20
But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

I do not believe that there will be a "national" revival in a political sense. DC is to far gone and to corrupt. I do believe that there will be an in gathering of repentant blood bought believers in Jesus Christ which make up the remnant. If just 10% of the current church woke up in America and did what they were called to do, it would be like heaven on earth, but as for this country? Judgement.

This seems to me to be a very 'US-Cenntric' question and view.

The question should be 'Has the world (of which the USA is a part) passed the point of no return'?
Answer: Yes it always has since the fall according to scripture and God's plan of redemption. This world is on course for final judgement and there is a new world coming.

Quote "The question is, are we willing to pay to the price to be a part of the end-time army that will enforce the Lordship of Jesus Christ, that which He obtained by His own precious blood?"

Where do you get this theology from?? It is not biblical at all. There will be no 'end time army that will enforce the Lordship of Christ'!! This is the dominionism /Joel's army / NAR heresy.

Jesus will return in judgement against this world and HE will set up His kingdom and rule. Until that time His 'church' will always be a remnant minority people in this world who are looking for and hastening the coming of their King and His kingdom.

21 For then there will be great tribulation, such ad had not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened. (Matt 24:21-22)

My question has been for a while that if America experiences revival and becomes a spiritual beacon again as they say then is that somehow going to steer us past the scenario and events prophesied to end this present age? Wouldn't true revival bring also a true assessment of what the end of the age is going to bring?

I don't believe there are any NT/NC scriptures. Also, nobody has shown it in their answers. I have my ideas of where this originated. Way....after time of Acts/Revelation. Church will always be the beacon to attract people to come out...of the nations, world, kingdoms of the earth, etc. Thats where the HS is present and resides.

That problem disappears if you do not insist on a literal future great tribulation. Not wanting to go down that road- just throwing it out there

Jesus ended His words here describing His second coming after the tribulation of those days. Maybe He meant His second coming was to be taken non literally also.

It seems a real sleight of hand to go from non literal in Matt 24:21,29 yet jump back to literal in Matt 24:31.

I hear you but you have to look at the verses before v 21. He was warning THEM about the coming great tribulation.

I think we can all agree the world is going to hell in a hand basket and unless the Church steps up its game like 300% ain't nothing stopping it.

The problem is that there is no prophetic voice calling the church to step it up, at least none who people are paying any attention to.

I don't want to be defeatist and I love Dr browns message but I really have a hard time seeing it happen.

Maybe if the Yellowstone volcano goes people will wake up, but that's a huge maybe (both the volcano and the waking up)

RE : /// I hear you but you have to look at the verses before v 21. He was warning THEM about the coming great tribulation. ///

and a warning they listened to and that most commentaries agree with the following regarding vs 16 :

Ellicott's Commentary

The words were acted on when the time came. Eusebius (Hist. Eccl. iii. 5) records that the Christians of Juda, acting "on a certain oracle," fled, in A.D. 68, to Pella, a town on the northern boundary of Pera. So Josephus (Wars, iv. 9, 1; v. 10, 1) more generally relates that many of the more conspicuous citizens fled from the city, as men abandon a sinking ship.

concerning vs 21 :

People's Bible Notes for Matthew 24:21

Mt 24:21 Great tribulation. The account given by Josephus, the Jewish historian who witnessed and recorded the war, is almost an echo of the predictions of Christ. Women ate their own children from starvation; the Jews within the city fought each other as well as the Roman army; on August 10, A.D. 70, the city was stormed and there was a universal massacre; 1,100,00 persons perished, and 100,000 survivors were sold into slavery.

Jesus' words end in His physical second coming after the tribulation of those days. The blessed hope of the church has always coincided the second coming with the last trumpet signaling the resurrection of the righteous dead. Josephus and the others must have missed that.

RE :///... Josephus and the others must have missed that.///

Josephus and others only recorded what those of that generation believed applied to them and they flee'd the destruction of Jerusalem because of what was spoken and the destruction happened almost exactly 40 years of it being spoken.

vs 34 "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Most commentaries that I am aware of are in agreement with this concerning verse 34 :

Wesley's Notes for Matthew 24:34

24:34 This generation of men now living shall not pass till all these things be done - The expression implies, that great part of that generation would be passed away, but not the whole. Just so it was. For the city and temple were destroyed thirty - nine or forty years after.

clarity

//David Wilkerson and Art Katz//

True they were prophetic voices but not national voices. Joel Osteen and TD Jakes and Joseph Prince are the only national voice we have, which is enough to gag the proverbial maggot.

When John the Baptist came people rushed out to see him and believe me he did not preach a message for itchy ears.

Because of the huge population of the US I am not sure, practically speaking, how a true prophet would get any air time. Even if he did it is not clear at all if the church would want to hear the message.

Resurrection day and the coming of the Messiah always associated together and coinciding in the Jewish mind. All roads leading to the Day of the Lord in the message of the prophets. Now we know the coming of this Messiah will be the second coming of Christ at the Day of the Lord - resurrection day.

No resurrection no all things were fulfilled in 70 AD.

The idea of a final time of trouble lasting approx seven years is not something that someone made up or is fabricated. The words of Christ regarding a final great tribulation have to be compared also with Daniel's prophecies (Dan 9:24-27 etc.) and much of what is found in Revelation. A strong case can be made for a final time of trouble falling within a final seven years. I think what has been fabricated is the view that there will be no final time of trouble and that Jesus spoken in non literal terms in Matt 24:21. If He spoke in literal terms of His second coming a few verses later why would He have spoken in non literal terms of the time leading up to His return.

I appreciate your admonitions though and your comments on the perplexity to come. I still wonder if America has a revival does that perhaps inadvertently carry with it the idea that this revival would somehow save us from this coming time of perpexity among the nations. I think not.

Thank you.

"Perhaps the thread should be retitled Has the Church in America Reached the Point of No Return. Peter reminds us that judgment does begin with the household of God."

I agree with you Brother Blaine. I sent out this post so that the saints would see that without fervent prayer, repentance, and intercession it is too late for America. However, we don't give up, we continue to pray, intercede, and stand in the gap knowing that the Lord is merciful, longsuffering, and not willing that any would perish, but that all would come to true repentance and the knowledge of the truth.

However, the sons of thunder immediately come out of the wood works wanted to call fire down from heaven and burn up this ungodly nation.

True intercessors have the heart of God and are grieved by the condition of the Church in America, crying out for mercy.

Judgment does indeed begin in the House of God, and some of the biggest critics ought to be allowing the Lord to tenderize their hearts. Praise God that He had mercy on us, and by the grace of God we are saved, but in our flesh there dwells no good thing, and there is much in us that the Lord is wanting to deal with that is not like Him.

Lord, have mercy on us! The Apostle Paul saw himself as the chief of sinners. We must repent of our pride and judgmentalism.

RE : /// I think what has been fabricated is the view that there will be no final time of trouble and that Jesus spoken in non literal terms in Matt 24:21....////

Whom said anything about Matt 24:21 not being Literal ?

The Christians of that generation understood that it literally applied to them and because of that understanding they fled the destruction of Jerusalem.

So the question has to be asked If we believe the end of verse 21 that says : "nor ever shall be" is literal or not ?

If we believe in a dual fulfillment as I believe is possible and as many people teach, what do we do than with : "nor ever shall be"

The commentaries that I checked are in agreement that verse 21 was speaking of the destruction of Jerusalem.

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers :

(21) Such as was not since the beginning . . .--The words come from Daniel 12:1. One who reads the narrative of Josephus will hardly hesitate to adopt his language, "that all miseries that had been known from the beginning of the world fell short" of those of the siege of the Holy City (Wars, v. 13, 4, 5). Other sieges may have witnessed, before and since, scenes of physical wretchedness equally appalling, but nothing that history records offers anything parallel to the alternations of fanatic hope and frenzied despair that attended the breaking up of the faith and polity of Israel.

Pulpit Commentary :

Verse 21. - Nor then. Jesus gives the reason why this precipitate flight (vers. 16-20) was rendered necessary at the moment spoken of in ver. 15. Great tribulation. The miseries suffered in the siege of Jerusalem were stupendous To the skilful and fierce attacks of the Romans from without were added from within dire famine and pestilence, dissensions, violence, and continual bloodshed and murder. Josephus estimates the number of those who fell in the siege and capture of Jerusalem at 1,000,000, the usual population being largely increased by the influx of pilgrims attending the Feast of the Passover, and by thousands of fugitives who had flocked in from the country (Josephus. 'Bell. Jud.,' 6:09, 3). He adds that 97,000 were carried away captive during and after the war. Such as was not...nor ever shall be (Daniel 12:1). This is not mere hyperbole, but sober fact. Josephus ('Bell. Jud.,' Prom. 4) himself bears similar testimony: "Of all the cities under the dominion of Rome, ours was once the most happy, and afterwards the most utterly miserable. For the misfortunes of all the nations upon earth that have ever happened, if they are compared with the calamities to which the Jews were exposed, will, in my opinion, fall far short." Chrysostom sums up the matter thus: "Whence came there thus upon them wrath from God intolerable, and more sore than all that had befallen aforetime, not in Judaea only, but in any part of the world? Is it not quite clear that it was for the deed of the cross and for this rejection? Mark, I pray thee, the exceeding greatness of the ills, when not only compared with the time before, they appear more grievous, but also with all the time to come. For not in all the world, neither in all time that is past, and that is to come, shall any one be able to say such ills have been. And very naturally; for neither had any man perpetrated, not of these that ever have been, nor those to come hereafter, a deed so wicked and horrible" ('Hom.,' in loc.). The "affliction" spoken of refers not only to bodily sufferings, but to that anguish of mind occasioned by acute apprehension and. expectation of danger, such as was felt in the days before the Flood, and at the time of the oppression of Antiochus Epiphanes.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible :

For then shall be great tribulation,.... This is urged as a reason for their speedy flight; since the calamity that would come upon those who should remain in the city, what through the sword, famine, pestilence, murders, robberies, &c. would
be such as was not since the beginning of the world, to this time, no, nor ever shall be. The burning of Sodom and Gomorrha, the bondage of the children of Israel in Egypt, their captivity in Babylon, and all their distresses and afflictions in the times of the Maccabees, are nothing to be compared with the calamities which befell the Jews in the siege and destruction of Jerusalem. Great desolations have been made in the besieging and at the taking of many famous cities, as Troy, Babylon, Carthage, &c. but none of them are to be mentioned with the deplorable case of this city. Whoever reads Josephus's account will be fully convinced of this; and readily join with him, who was an eyewitness of it, when he says (m), that
"never did any city suffer such things, nor was there ever any generation that more abounded in malice or wickedness.''
And indeed, all this came upon them for their impenitence and infidelity, and for their rejection and murdering of the Son of God; for as never any before, or since, committed the sin they did, or ever will, so there never did, or will, the same calamity befall a nation, as did them.

Matthew Henry Commentary

24:4-28 The disciples had asked concerning the times, When these things should be? Christ gave them no answer to that; but they had also asked, What shall be the sign? This question he answers fully. The prophecy first respects events near at hand, the destruction of Jerusalem, the end of the Jewish church and state, the calling of the Gentiles, and the setting up of Christ's kingdom in the world; but it also looks to the general judgment; and toward the close, points more particularly to the latter. What Christ here said to his disciples, tended more to promote caution than to satisfy their curiosity; more to prepare them for the events that should happen, than to give a distinct idea of the events. This is that good understanding of the times which all should covet, thence to infer what Israel ought to do. Our Saviour cautions his disciples to stand on their guard against false teachers. And he foretells wars and great commotions among nations. From the time that the Jews rejected Christ, and he left their house desolate, the sword never departed from them.

Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges

21. great tribulation] "Jerusalem, a city that had been liable to so many miseries during the siege, that had it enjoyed as much happiness from its first foundation, it would certainly have been the envy of the world.” Josephus, B. J. vii. 6. 5.
No words can describe the unequalled horrors of this siege. It was the Passover season, and Jews from all parts were crowded within the walls. Three factions, at desperate feud with each other, were posted on the heights of Sion and on the Temple Mount. These only united to fling themselves at intervals upon the Roman entrenchments, and then resumed their hate. The Temple-courts swam with the blood of civil discord, which was literally mingled with the blood of the sacrifices. Jewish prisoners were crucified by hundreds in view of their friends, while within the city the wretched inhabitants were reduced by famine to the most loathsome of food and to deeds of unspeakable cruelty. Jerusalem was taken on the 10th August, a. d. 70. 1,100,000 Jews perished in the siege, 100,000 were sold into slavery. With the fall of Jerusalem Israel ceased to exist as a nation.

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
CHAPTER 24
Mt 24:1-51. Christ's Prophecy of the Destruction of Jerusalem, and Warnings Suggested by It to Prepare for His Second Coming. ( = Mr 13:1-37; Lu 21:5-36).

clarity

To me the Churches in America have passed beyond the point of return. They are institutional in nature and are government by board instead of God. They seek to please people and change their stand based on the culture.

Only hope we have in America is to find local churches that are true representation of the body of Christ and to join them. If you cannot find them in your locality the pray that God should lead you to brothers of similar burden to form one.

I am part of a local church in my locality that I believe is seeking to be a true representation of the Body of Christ. Being a true local Church is not easy. One has to pay a price for it. I do not believe even the so called posters here in SI are willing to pay the price. How do we expect a nominal Christian to repent and pay the price to be part of a local body of Christ?

//However, the sons of thunder immediately come out of the wood works wanted to call fire down from heaven and burn up this ungodly nation. //

Mike I read back through the thread and I don't see this anywhere. I see some skepticism but I don't see anyone wishing for a great judgment. Of course I may have missed it.

What is needed for Dr Browns dream to come true is something different. What is currently being done is obviously not working. If God wants revival of this nation or anywhere He will need to do something, be it via a prophet or something big that will grab attention. I would love it if TRUE revival w/o all the charismatic nonsense would breakout in Church A and that it would rapidly spread from church to church across the nation. But what is needed to make that happen?? People have been praying for revival for years but for whatever reason it does not seem to be working. Why?

Brethren,

Please forgive me if this may appear to come out the wrong way. I am finding it very hard to even read threads like this let alone want to throw my two cents into the ring lest what I want to say be misinterpreted.

Why are Christians so consumed with Gods judgement? If we are truly saved we have absolutely zero to fear. The church is obsessed with God wanting to pour out judgement, end times, tribulation, rapture, self righteousness, debate, and pride.

All while God is waiting for us to GO out and fulfill the great commission. It was mentioned that God is going to have to do something because what is being done so far is not working.

God already DID something. He spoke, created, commanded; was patient, took on human flesh, loved, beaten, tortured, crucified, forgave, rose from the dead, ascended, and sent His Holy Spirit.

Does God have to DO anything else? He has already proclaimed deliverance, freedom, and salvation for all Christians.

At this point I do not bear witness with preaching Gods judgement but rather preaching and DEMONSTRATING Gods love.

I am guilty of riding the wave of preaching Gods judgement and it is a wave I no longer feel led to minister, it is simply NOT Gods heart.

I am no longer consumed with the church, the churches judgement, or revival in the church. We must be consumed with the great commission and the fields of lost souls that are already ripe for the pickin.

The burden no longer rests with God, He has already provided what we need and the burden is now upon Christians, Believers, the Faithful.

My only hope, encouragement, and admonition to the body is this:

Mark 16:14-20 Afterward He appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen Him after He was risen. (15) And He said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. (16) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (17) And these signs shall follow them that believe; In My name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; (18) They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. (19) So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, He was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. (20) And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Before fornicators, liars, adulterers, thieves, etc. are cast into the lake of fire, the fearful and unbelieving are mentioned.

The great commission as God has laid out in Mark 16 works. Anything and everything else man wants to add to it are filthy rags.

David- I appreciate what you wrote.

Would you therefore say that praying for revival (which is asking for God to do something) is a unworthy cause? It may be-- there has been no revival and maybe we aren't taking the hint.

Weren't the great "revivals" of the past the result of the preaching of Gods Judgment ?

Not to say there isn't/wasn't a balance, but wasn't there an emphasis put on the coming Judgment by Edwards, Finney, Booth, etc...?

Not trying to be contentious, just asking-

"Weren't the great "revivals" of the past the result of the preaching of Gods Judgment ?"

Amen! The sinner must know that he is not just a little misguided, and with a change in his thinking and a little counseling that he can become a better person, but he must be convicted by the Holy Spirit that he is lost, undone, miserable, and wretched. When a sinner is under true conviction he will cry out: "what must I do to be saved?" Then the good news of the mercy and grace of Jesus Christ can be preached and he can find peace with God.

All of the great revival preachers preached a true gospel of both the judgment and mercy of the Lord. Men often fell down on their faces in deep agony under the conviction of sin. Then when they heard the good news of salvation and forgiveness of Jesus Christ, they called out upon His name and were saved, justified, and filled with the peace and joy of the Lord.

What we are lacking in most of our churches today is the preaching of the whole word of God, the true gospel of Jesus Christ that brings sinners under conviction. We all were sinners, lost, and on our way to hell, and that is where we deserved to go, but praise God for redemption and salvation through faith in the blood of Jesus Christ, that washes all of our sins away.

I believe Brown's assumption that America AS America means something to God is a flawed premise. America is not to be saved. It never was. Like all nations, so is America, a speck of dust and a drop in the bucket before Him, nothing to offer Him, all our righteousness being filthy rags.