about Pastor John MacArthur

At the 1:35 min mark John said, "No, it's not sinful for a cake maker to make a cake for a gay wedding anymore than it's sinful for a guy that owns a restaurant... I actually think that we need to show love to everyone and do good to all those outside the kingdom as well as inside..."

John MacArthur moved up a couple notches in my estimation over this comment.

Thank you so much for sharing it!!!

I agree Lisa.

"People are people so why should it be--you and I should get along so awfully."

Since I can not see Jesus as a carpenter carving a statue of two men or two women standing hand in hand in Holy Matrimony nor can I see Him attending such an event there by giving homage to such an occasion I have to agree with the personal conscience choice that the christian bakery took. As I understand this specific cake done the exact way requested would have been a stark violation of these bakery owners conscience. If the matter was just a plain cake stacked with the typical piers 3 or 4 high there probably would not have been a problem, add the other "stuff" on the cake and there in lies the subtle compromise. You can love the sinner but hate the sin.

No kingdom divided against itself can stand, this issue is a divisive issue which can never lead to love and unity of The Holy Spirit and so I see its very nature with in the church as one that weakens the churches leadership role and causes harmful divides among evangelicals to the extant that we lose the real issue here and that is how best to win the "gay" community to Jesus Christ.

I agree that a Christian baker should not HAVE to bake a cake for anybody he doesn't want to. A heathen baker should not have to bake for a Christian couple if he doesn't want to. But if the Christian baker doesn't have a problem with it he/she is not sinning.

John MacArthur only matters to me when he says something right and even then only when it is a remarkable right. He has had a select one or two of those IMO. In other words I don't care what he thinks.

But I do believe it is no sin to make a cake for a gay couple's wedding IF you can do it while walking in earnest honesty with Christ, living in the word, and no pause from the Holy Spirit is given. That can happen. Whether it does or will is anyone's guess. If a person IS given pause or if for conscience's sake they cannot bake that cake, don't. But there is no objective, definitive word from the Bible not to bake that cake in every instance.

Yet I cannot imagine it being a small thing in the conscience of any intentional and serious believer of Jesus.

MacArthur is beside the point.

In John MacArthur's line of reasoning it would be okay for a Christian baker to bake a cake for a homosexual couple, as long as he isn't praying in tongues while doing so.

IT appears that his logic in the edited OP clip provided, contradicts, his clear logic in this clip : https://www.gty.org/library/blog/B140605/john-macarthur-on-christians-business-and-gay-marriage

add : Does anyone know where we can find an unedited full version of the statements in the OP clip ?

clarity

"I think the better thing to do as a radical follower christian is to focus on devotion to Jesus Christ and stick to listen to preachers men of God who is very firm in their faith and beliefs.."

I agree with you, and there is nothing wrong with questioning and examining something that a well known teacher like John MacArthur has said. The Holy Spirit dwells within us so that we would know the difference of what is of the truth and what is not.

Where many are missing it is that they take phrases from articles or sermons of something that a minister has said and use that to condemn the man's ministry.

Jesus said that we would know them by their fruits.

by AdideinHim
In John MacArthur's line of reasoning it would be okay for a Christian baker to bake a cake for a homosexual couple, as long as he isn't praying in tongues while doing so.

Thank you so much!!!
Lisa

I know a lot of people on here disagree with me, but if I were a baker, I personally wouldn't have a problem baking a cake for homosexual wedding. If some or most Christians cannot do that, I judge them not.

And know that I would pray over that cake (speaking in tongues as well) but it would be made in love for them; love to see them walk in the fullness of Christ that God has for them... as I would a half-hearted Christian too!!

God bless us all!!
Lisa

Is this the place in the forum where we bash our brothers and sisters in Christ?

How many of you would stand in the spotlight under the meticulous eye of every single believer and start saying doctrine?

I don't agree with everything MacArthur says, but who are you to judge a fellow servant. When he denies Christ, then we can talk.

Hi Evangeline,

Thank you for sharing. Please continue to share on SermonIndex. While there is a plethora of different opinions among those who participate in discussions on SI forums, I think that the pursuit of Biblical truth is the motivation of each person.

This isn't anything new. After all, Paul and Barnabas had a disagreement that was so sharp that they even parted company over it (Acts 15:36-41). How's that for "early church unity?" It is an unfortunate part of our flawed human nature and being confined to this side of that "glass darkly" (I Corinthians 13:12).

Please don't allow this to discourage you from sharing or participating in discussions (unless you're following the Lord's leading). Conversations can sometimes become one-sided when people are discouraged from sharing their own insight. Believers certainly will never agree on every matter under the sun, but we can love and encourage one another despite any disagreements or squabbles.

Personally, I haven't listened to many sermons by John MacArthur. Thus, I can't readily compare and contrast his current sermons and teaching messages with older ones. I have enjoyed some of his teaching messages in the past (even if I disagree with a few of the things that he has taught).

That said: I strongly support the Colorado baker who faced a loss of his business if he didn't open up his bakery to decorate cakes for homosexual "weddings."

Unfortunately, there is quite a bit of misinformation about the infamous case that is currently being considered by the United States Supreme Court. This family-owned bakery did offer to sell a cake to the homosexual couple. However, they declined to participate by creating a cake for the sole purpose of celebrating a homosexual marriage.

Here is a good explanation of that particular case:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

https://www.adflegal.org/detailspages/case-details/masterpiece-cakeshop-v.-craig

Masterpiece Cakeshop is also a family business. Among his other employees, one of Jack’s sisters decorates cakes at the bakery, another sister volunteers to keep the shop clean, and his elderly mother takes care of accounting needs a few hours each week.

As a Christian, Jack knows that God can work as He chooses, including using small bakeries like Masterpiece Cakeshop to do His work. "[God] has chosen this bakery to do a lot of different things that we had never planned and that we would never want to stop,” he said. Jack’s faith motivates how he operates his business, but he would one day find out that the State of Colorado could force him to strip every ounce of his faith out of his business.

In July 2012, two men came into Jack’s bakery requesting a wedding cake for their same-sex ceremony. In an exchange lasting only a few seconds, Jack declined the request, saying he could not design cakes for same-sex wedding ceremonies. Jack offered to make the couple any other type of baked good or sell them a pre-made cake, but, because of his faith, he could not design a cake promoting a same-sex wedding ceremony.

Infuriated, the two men stormed out of the store. Shortly after, Jack started to receive phone calls from people threatening and harassing him because of his decision to not use his artistic talents to design a cake celebrating the couple’s same-sex marriage. Instead of responding in anger, Jack saw the calls as an invitation to prayer: "[The phone calls] give me an opportunity to pray for people I wouldn’t know.”

https://www.adflegal.org/detailspages/case-details/masterpiece-cakeshop-v.-craig

I can only admire these brethren and sisters for the stand they took. It could not have been easy.

" having done all to stand, stand"

May we all have the courage to stand for what we deep down know to be true

Blessings,

It is easy to say you would bake a cake for a homosexual couple to show love to them even though another Christian brother /sister is going through great suffering and loss because of their love for the Lord in not compromising their faith.

Baking a cake for a person who is living in gross sin is not a sin against God because God demonstrates his love for the sinners by sending his own Son to die for sinners even though he hates all sin.

That being said, it should be clearly understood that he would never participate nor approve of those who sin. So if the baker was asked to decorate the cake in an ungodly way then that goes beyond just baking a cake for someone. So if someone asks you as a Christian to participate in their sin you must be as a Christian walking with God in the light and reprove the evil deeds of those who are walking in darkness.

Ephesians 5:11-12
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather -- reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

If we truly love people we will speak the truth to them in love. This is the very reason Jesus said tarry until you are endure with power from on high in order to be an effective witness unto him.

Acts 1:8
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Blessings to all!

"These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.” Proverbs 6:16-19, KJV.

emestiu,

Here is something the Lord has taught me. Whenever there is something that I am unsure about that another brother has said, I don't use their name. I just describe the situation and leave the names out. That way I don't unintentionally malign their integrity if I am the one who is confused. Or, if the brother/sister is wrong in what they said, I can confidently go to them one-on-one, as Matthew 18 shows, without have already opened the issue to the public.

The topic of whether or not a Christian baker can/should bake cakes for homosexual events is a worthy topic to be discussed--and it should be discussed.

As a hairdresser, I perform services on people of all walks without exception but to participate in an open celebration of sin would violate my conscience and could not participate. When I have an unbeliever in my chair it affords me an opportunity to share the gospel but in a celebration of sin it would not and for me to participate is (for me) tantamount to approving of it and as a representative of Jesus then by extension I'm saying He would too-

I was blessed by this discussion. Thank you for posting the topic. It is relevant, and on our minds. I appreciate the amicable tone here - something that has not always been the case on SI. Is this an indication of growth in the Body of Christ?
It is not easy to judge a person's decision, because we do not know all the facts. I am reminded of 2 Corinthians 9:7
"Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver."
and: Romans 15:23 "... everything that does not come from faith is sin."

How much of our own giving is the outwork of pressure on our conscience - so we'll keep the peace, not make waves, get them off our back, do what's expected? This would not be giving by faith - and would come under the category of sin. Yes, even our good deeds can fall under the radar of sin! This could be a rather large "log" in our own eye - which makes it especially difficult to see the "speck" in the other's eye - especially someone we only know from the media!!

The only thing I would have liked differently in this thread is the title - as that points to a particular person who is not really the focus of this discussion. As they say, discuss ideas, not the person.

Bless you all!!!
Diane