A Thought Provoking Statement

Surely the Bible is holy, as everything written by the Holy One is holy.

By sheer definition, the Bible is Holy. Holy means to be set-apart. The content within is just that, set-apart. Now, the means and methods for creating a Bible (book, scrolls, .pdf file, etc) those are not holy in and of themselves; the entirety of the contents are.

Twice the scriptures refer to themselves as holy scriptures (thanks, Greg!), and 2 different words are used for holy. One is hagios, which means holy and also is the word we use for saints (we are literally THE Holy). And Heiros, which means sacred or of divinity. Either way, scriptures themselves are holy.

We have to be careful, because if we travel down the road of saying, "The scriptures are not holy, but God is"), then we move toward idolatry. Here's how it'll play out:

1) Bible isn't holy
2) Bible isn't holy, because it was written in part by man.
3) Bible was written in part by man, so there are some places that are erroneous or simply opinion.
4) Since the bible is no longer a completely trustable authority, I can rely on my feelings to guide me where I feel like the Bible errs.
5) I worship God in the way that feels right, as long as it doesn't color too far outside the lines.
6) I define the lines.

And boom! You have post-modernism/post-truth Christianity, where we have successfully diminished our view of scripture, and now are doing what is right in our own eyes, and worshipping a "god" of our own making.

Welcome to the USA.

That will be a YES from me for the record! I am guilty, I am an idolator from which I will not repent! LOL!

Considering that Gutenberg didn't invent the printing press until 1450 and the actually Holy Bible is only 567 yrs old compared to following the Lord for 4450 yrs before that, how can we say the paper is all that holy?

Come on, friends! "God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth." ~ John 4:24

God bless,
Lisa

The ONLY ways to make the Bible an idle is to elevate It above God or to believe that I must use the Bible as a charm to grant me access to God.

I agree with what God has decided regarding His own words:

Psa 138:2 I will worship toward Your holy temple, And praise Your name For Your lovingkindness and Your truth; For You have magnified Your word above all Your name.

Lysa, I most certainly agree that we must worship in spirit and truth, so my question to you is this: what is truth, what is it's source, and how has the Lord chosen to convey that truth?

Yes, you have answered the first two questions, brother. The third question, though, you have answered without realizing. You know those things about Jesus because of His word.

Faith comes by hearing. Hearing comes by the Word of God. The Pharisees didn't get that. They stopped at hearing and believed that just by having and knowing the scriptures that they had eternal life. THAT, my friend, is Bible idolatry.

Also, the Spirit works in tandem with the Scriptures. Remember: the Spirit works in our lives to bring to mind the Words of Jesus. We don't know those without the scripures.

by havok20x
Lysa, I most certainly agree that we must worship in spirit and truth, so my question to you is this: what is truth, what is it's source, and how has the Lord chosen to convey that truth?

and later...

Also, the Spirit works in tandem with the Scriptures. Remember: the Spirit works in our lives to bring to mind the Words of Jesus. We don't know those without the scripures.

Jesus commanded them: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift the Father promised, which you have heard Me discuss. (Acts 1:4) and that gift wasn't the Bible either.

When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. ~ John 16.13

When the Advocate comes, whom I will send you from the Father--the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father--He will testify about Me. ~ John 15:26

I love Scripture, as you can see from what I have posted!! If we do not walk with Holy Spirit, no matter what we read will get twisted.

God bless,
Lisa

Bro Bear,
My thoughts on what this man, mentioned
We know that Jesus' death was to be before hand,and was meant to be.

But 'The Words' that He spoke / preached,was also what He came to do.
(He is 'ONE' with The Word of God.) ....He came preaching 'The kingdom of God / heaven is at hand.'...( it is in His hand,...it is His good pleasure to give it to us.

He was persecuted / hated / and killed, because of The Word, that He spoke../ and the Life that He Lived, ...a life that goes w/ The Word...He Lived in a kingdom, not of this worlds kingdom.

That true Life and Word brings an offense.

I have seen many times,..that there are ones that want to have a Jesus without The Word,...could it be, because with The Word, comes a responsibility to that Word ?
We no,that if we have a Jesus without The Word,...then we have another Jesus,..

The Holy Spirit that The Lord has placed within us is Word / Spirit-
A fountain of Living Water,that rises up within us,unto Life.,..guides us,
(leading us by His Spirit)...
And when He teaches / speaks to us,through His Spirit, we can go to the written Word, to confirm ,what He has spoken to us about.

(So we thank God for the written Word.)

----------------
elizabeth

Bro.Bear,
I really do not know if I am understanding you rightfully,...forgive me if I am not,...please except my continuing thoughts:

...the same words that are written down, is the testimony of Jesus,..the testimony of God,..Words that came out of His mouth and life. (Life)
He said, His Word is One.

That God' Word is very Pure,.. whether I am reading it or The Lord is speaking to me through The Spirit. ...every Word of God is very Pure.

Doesn't it just quicken our spirit, while we are reading it ?
Yes,it is the written Word,...it alines with the quicken Word that is within.

The testimonies of Jesus-
For Instructions in righteousness-
To confirm what He says / instructions-
The comfort of the scriptures-

Rom.15:4,
"For whatsoever things were written aforetiime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of scripture might have hope."

(in most gentleness I speak),..why should we not just worship
His Word ?...it is One...it is Truth.
I hold The written Word ,my dearest possession of material things,although I know that I have His Spirit / Word within,should His written Word be taken away.

Lovingly,
-------------
elizabeth

Could that statement simple mean not to superstitiously think this printed and bound word of God is an object to actually hold up to ward off evil?

Some do this similar thing with a crucifix. One I know actually thought the Bible protected their home.~ eileen

by Elibeth
(in most gentleness I speak),..why should we not just worship
His Word ?...it is One...it is Truth.

I live in the buckle of the bible belt and I've known too many people who have worshiped the paper more than they worshiped the Son of the Living God. They will kill people over a verse rather than give life to someone and they run more people away from God than they draw to Him. That is my reason, be that as it may.

2 Cor 3:5-6
Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for THE LETTER KILLS, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE. (emphasis Lisa's)

I do love my Bible and have several and I teach at my local jail for the girls to read it, and no, they do not know my feelings. But I also teach them to take their problems to the shower (their only private place) and cry out unto the One who can cleanse them and make them whole.

God bless,
Lisa

The fact is that churches have made mistakes as well as individual men, and have fallen into grievous errors both in practice and doctrine. Look at the churches of Galatia, Corinth, Laodicea, Hardis, and so on; nay, we find that the first disciples of our Lord, who made up the truly primitive and apostolic church, were not infallible, they made a great mistake about a simple saying of our Lord. He said concerning John, "If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?” "Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?” Even the apostles themselves could blunder, and did blunder. They were infallible in what they wrote when they were under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, but at no other time. Yet, brethren, I marvel not that in the sore distress to which the mind is often brought, it is found better to believe in an infallible church than to be left to mere reason, to be tossed to and fro, a desolate waif, driven by ever changeful winds over the awful leagues of questionings which are found in the restless ocean of unbelief. Longing as I do for a sure foundation, and rejecting both popes and councils, where shall I look?

We have a more sure word of testimony, a rock of truth upon which we rest, for our infallible standard lies in, "It is written.” The Bible, the whole Bible, and nothing but the Bible, is our religion. It is said that it is hard to be understood, but it is not so to those who seek the guidance of the Spirit of God. There are in it great truths which are above our comprehension, placed there on purpose to let us see how shallow are our finite minds, but concerning vital and fundamental points the Bible is not hard to be understood, neither is there any excuse for the multitudes of errors which men pretend to have gathered from it. A babe in grace taught by the Spirit of God may know the mind of the Lord concerning salvation, and find its way to heaven by the guidance of the word alone. But be it profound or simple, that is not the question; it is the word of God, and is pure, unerring truth. Here is infallibility, and nowhere else.

"Again, I have no visions or angelic revelations, neither do I seek or desire such, lest I be thereby deceived. For Christ's Word alone is sufficient for me. If I do not follow His testimony, then verily all is lost. And even if I had such revelations, which is not the case, they could not deviate from the Word and spirit of Christ, or else they would be only imagination, seduction and satanic deception." - Menno Simons

add :

"Inasmuch as I daily see these terrible dangers, and from the beginning many an unwise soul has been misled, and many are yet misled by false prophecies, smooth words, seeming holiness, lying wonders, boasting and false promises of the antichrists and false prophets who under the cloak of God's Word have ever sought their own honor and advantage, as was the case with the Romish popes, with John of Leyden at Münster and with others, - therefore I deem it needful and well sincerely to warn and admonish my beloved readers, not to accept my doctrine as the Gospel of Jesus Christ until they have investigated for themselves and found it to agree with the Spirit and Word of the Lord, that their faith may not be founded on me nor on any other teacher or writer, but solely on Jesus Christ." - Menno Simons

The Holy Spirit through Peter speaks it plainly. It is the Word of God that saves us, "spoken by the Holy Spirit to the heart".

1 Peter 1:22-25 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

By the "Word" of God, this "Word" is Logos.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again , not of corruptible seed , but of incorruptible , by the word of God , which liveth and abideth for ever .

Logos; this is "the divine expression of Jesus Christ" as in John 1; "the Word was God". This is the living Word which the Holy Spirit seal and birthing by the Father, the incorruptible Seed birthed in each of us who believe, this living word is the Words of Life, and can be used to preach Christ in any language, This I believe is what tongues is all about.

The "word" in verse 25 is hray-mah which is the written word preached by what cannot be preached without a Preacher.

Holy Spirit preached or man preached, it is all Holy, including the words on the page which is for our learning and remembering the Holiness of Jesus Christ, the Father and the Holy Spirit.

In Christ: Phillip

Psalms 138:2
2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise -- thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

This will be my one and only post on this thread because I would never consider such a statement as thought provoking but very unprofitable as this thread is doing no good for people who are suppose to believe that God's Word is Holy and the only way for salvation and for us to be presented Holy unto the Lord.

The Holy Spirit always exalts Jesus who is the Word and would never inspire such a statement but it only could have come from the fleshly nature of man. Not accusing the man of not being saved but we must understand our flesh can sometimes get in the way.

The Bible is a Holy library of 66 Holy Books inspired by a Holy God. I cringe at the thought of even suggesting that God's Word is not Holy. We do not say that the books of the Bible contain the Word of God but that it is the Word of God and never should we even suggest it is unholy. We should perish the thought and even consider it close to blasphemy when the Holy Spirit and the Word are One.

Blessings to all...and I do hope that you will give this thread a sudden death...and don't even give it a proper funeral because it is not even worthy to be consider of any profitability to anyone or worthy of Him who is a consuming fire of all that is unholy.

Bearmaster wrote: "Simply my thoughts. Thoughts that would have gotten me burned at the stake and probably still will. But my confession is Jesus is Lord. My confession is He the Living Word. And my confession is the scriptures are that which give wisdom in how one is to have faith and life in His name. But my confession is it is the Living Word Jesus Himself who is to be worshipped and not the written word."
___________________________________________________________

You err in you knowledge of church history. Those who were burnt at the stake, were because they upheld the 'Word of God' as the ultimate authority for truth. Your low view of scripture would be in line with the Roman Catholic persecutors, so I think you will be OK when it comes to having to deny the authority of scripture.

RE : /// Dave they were burned at the stake not that they worship the Bible. They were burned at the stake because they worshipped Him who was the author of The Bible.///

They where Burned at the stake because of there stance on the Authority of Scripture and There realization that True Spirituality and Faith comes from reading/hearing and than believing Gods Word.

Lets not speculate.
Read the writings of men whom where burned at the stake such as Tyndale and what they Believed about the authority of Scriptures :

'THE OBEDIENCE OF A CHRISTIAN MAN' by William Tyndale :

https://www.richard-2782.net/obediencechristianman.pdf

"God is a Spirit, and all his words are spiritual,
His literal sense is spiritual, and all his words are
spiritual. When you read (Mat 1.21) "She shall bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus; for he shall save his people from their sins:” this literal sense
is spiritual, and everlasting life to as many as believe it. And the literal sense of these words, (Mat 5.7) "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall have mercy;” these words are spiritual and life, by which those who are merciful may rightfully, by the truth and promise of God, challenge for mercy. It is like these words, Mat 6.15, "If you forgive other men their sins, your heavenly Father shall forgive you yours.” And so it is
with all the promises of God. Finally, all God’s words are spiritual, if you have the eyes of God to see the right meaning of the text, and what the Scripture pertains to, and the final end and cause of it. All Scripture contains the promises and testament of God in Christ, and the stories pertaining to that testament are to strengthen your faith; or else the law and the stories pertaining to it are to frighten you from doing evil. There is no story or tale in Scripture, however simple or vile to the world, that you will not find spirit and life in it, and edification in the literal sense. For it is God’s Scripture, written for your learning and comfort. There is no cloth or rag there that does not have precious relics wrapped in it of faith, hope, patience and long suffering, and of the truth of God, and also
of his righteousness." - William Tyndale

I wanted to add something, I love the precious word of God and the Word of God. Many of you who say we should worship the written word of God, and I'm wondering if you pray that word of God?

I only ask because people have posted threads on SI about "claiming" the word of God in their life and believe what the Bible says about healing and other topics but man o man, do they shot down in this forum and branded as "word of faith."

I see a tremendous gulf in how you allow yourselves freedom to worship or love your Bible but not another. Can you explain to me and others the difference between you worshiping your Bible and them worshiping theirs?

I ready, willing and able to read your responses.

Quote bearmaster: "If we say the Bible is holy then is this not opening up bibliolatry? Is this not opening up worship of the Bible?"

NO. This statement you made early on in this thread is a completely wrong conclusion and shows what you really wanted to address. However it is a false connection. In trying to expose an error (that we don't see much of) of folk actually worshiping the bible, you make an equally dangerous error of denigrating the scriptures. Of course the bible is Holy, if you undertstand what 'Holy' means, i.e seperate, unique and not like any other. In the same way (as Greg previously pointed out) God is Holy and His people are Holy.

In your zeal to be controversial you are in danger of reducing the bible to just another book that points us to Christ. So is Pilgrims Progress or Tozer's The pursuit of God on an equal level as the Bible? If not why not?

This is just another pointless thread that ends up undermining the truth.

The higher critics view that the Scriptures only purpose is to point us to Jesus is the root of liberal christian thinking.

read this artical by the huffington post and you will find the exact same arguments, misrepresentations that has been used in this thread :

Worshiping God, Not the Bible :
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-idom/the-bible-vital-tool-or-m_b_814058.html

1.) The Bibles Purpose is simply to point us to God

RE : /// He remarked that the Bible is not a holy book. But the Bible is a book about One who is holy.///

huffington post :

"But, I must always remember, it is not through the bible that I am found. No, that is more about the one God I understand the bible to be revealing."

2.) Accusing those whom disagree of (bibliolatry):

RE : /// If we say the Bible is holy then is this not opening up bibliolatry? Is this not opening up worship of the Bible? ///

huffington post :

"It was, I believe, Robert Schuler who warned Christians to beware of "bibliolatry”."

3.) KJV strawman

RE : /// Yet even in this forum there have been fierce debates over which is the one pure translation. There have been those who have tried to convince us that the KJV is the only translation to use. Thus relegating the Bible to nothing more than just a book of rules as to which rule book is the better one to use. I've often seen that those who contend for the KJV are often the most legalistic in their approach to a walk with faith with Christ.///

huffington post :

"I will never forget standing up to read the scripture from the bible my bishop had given me when a member of the church stood up and shouted at me: "That’s what’s wrong with you seminary boys. You don’t read from the real bible!” He got up and left in an angry huff. Of course, the "real” bible was the King James bible."

4.) The misleading accusation that those whom disagree : would imply a new meaning of the Trinity

RE : /// If I did not know any better it would seem the above statement would imply worship of the written Bible. This almost would imply a new meaning of the Trinity which is Holy Father, Holy Son, Holy Bible.///

huffington post :

"It was, I believe, Robert Schuler who warned Christians to beware of "bibliolatry”. That is, worshipping the bible to the same degree that we worship the God the bible reveals. To be consistent, that means remembering the Trinity only has three sides, not four."

RE : /// We have the same thing in modern-day Christendom. There is so much focus on the written word, the Bible. That one fails to see Jesus as the fulfillment of the scriptures. One fails to see Jesus as the Living Word of whom the scriptures testify.///

No!

Modern Christendom's view about the Scriptures is exactly what the huffington post artical put forth :

Worshiping God, Not the Bible :
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-idom/the-bible-vital-tool-or-m_b_814058.html

Robert Schuler would be an excellant example of one whom sought to be spiritual apart from the Scriptures,
If need be we can look at him and others everything from Norman Peal to H. E. Fosdick to loyola etc. on those whom relied on there own personal spiritual experiences apart from the Scripture

and we can compare those to those whom Spiritual experiences originated and revolved around believing the Scripture to be Gods Word and believing the promises contained in it. such as Tyndale, Bunyan, Spurgeon etc.

Blain,

Please can you answer this previous question.

"So is Pilgrims Progress or Tozer's The pursuit of God on an equal level as the Bible? If not why not?"

Brother Bear, quote " One fails to see Jesus as the Living Word of whom the scriptures testify."

Surely this is not the fault of the Scriptures and do not make them any less "God breathed" ?
You yourself are continually quoting from those very scriptures to back up your argument, which I am sure we all grasp.

Our lack of spiritual perception and faith and Pharisaical pride and hard heartedness do not negate the purity of the Scriptures.

I can also say that I was not saved by the Scriptures but rather by a Mighty working of the Spirit of God revealing Christ in me, however now that I am saved I understand what the scriptures are about and can spiritually discern their value. Now I see clearly I understand they are the very Words of the Living God.

God bless,

Scriptures are the very words of the living God. Amen! Just as He intended. What will God say to you that is not in Scripture?

"...This shows us a great Truth of God which we might not otherwise have so clearly noted. How much that can be said of the Lord Jesus may be also said of the inspired volume! How closely are these two allied! How certainly do those who despise the one reject the other! How intimately are the Word made flesh and the Word uttered by inspired men, joined together!

It may be most accurate to interpret this passage as relating both to the Word of God Incarnate and the Word of God Inspired. Weave the two into one thought, for God has joined them together, and you will then see fresh lights and new meanings in the text. The Word of God, namely, this Revelation of Himself in Holy Scripture, is all it is here described to be, because Jesus, the Incarnate Word of God, is in it. He does, as it were, incarnate Himself as the Divine Truth in this visible and manifest Revelation. And thus it becomes living and powerful, dividing and discerning.

As the Christ reveals God, so this Book reveals Christ, and therefore it partakes, as the Word of God, in all the attributes of the Incarnate Word. And we may say many of the same things of the written Word as of the embodied Word. In fact, they are now so linked together that it would be impossible to divide them. This I like to think of, because there are some nowadays who deny every doctrine of Revelation and yet, indeed, they praise the Christ. The Teacher is spoken of in the most flattering style and then His teaching is rejected, except so far as it may coincide with the philosophy of the moment.

They talk much about Jesus, while that which is the real Jesus, namely, His Gospel and His inspired Word, they cast away. I believe I do but correctly describe them when I say that, like Judas, they betray the Son of Man with a kiss. They even go so far as to cry up the names of the doctrines, though they use them in a different sense that they may deceive. They talk of loyalty to Christ and reverence for the Sermon on the Mount””but they use vain words. I am charged with sowing suspicion. I do sow it and desire to sow it. Too many Christian people are content to hear anything so long as it is put forth by a clever man, in a taking manner.

I want them to try the spirits, whether they are of God, for many false prophets have gone forth into the world. What God has joined together, these modern thinkers willfully put asunder and separate the Revealer from His own Revelation. I believe the Savior thinks their homage to be more insulting than their scorn would be. Well may He do so, for they bow before Him and say, "Hail, Master!” while their foot is on the blood of His Covenant and their souls abhor the doctrine of His substitutionary sacrifice.

They are crucifying the Lord afresh and putting Him to an open shame by denying the Lord that bought them, by daring to deride His purchase of His people as a "mercantile transaction,” and I know not what of blasphemy beside. Christ and His Word must go together. What is true of the Christ is here predicated both of Him and of His Word. Behold this day the everlasting Gospel has Christ within it. He rides in it as in a chariot. He rides in it as, of old, Jehovah "did ride upon a cherub and did fly””yes, He did fly upon the wings of the wind.” It is only because Jesus is not dead that the Word becomes living and effectual, "and sharper than any two-edged sword.”

If you leave Christ out of it, you have left out its vitality and power. As I have told you that we will not have Christ without the Word, so neither will we have the Word without Christ. If you leave Christ out of Scripture, you have left out the essential Truth of God which it is written to declare. Yes, if you leave out of it Christ as a Substitute, Christ in His death, Christ in His garments dyed in blood, you have left out of it all that is living and powerful. How often have we reminded you that as concerning the Gospel, even as concerning every man, "the blood is the life thereof”””a bloodless Gospel is a lifeless Gospel!"

Dear sister,

I, for one, did not think any of you were disparaging the Scriptures.

I do understand where bro Bear was coming from.

I was just wanting to give a balanced view, my two cents...

Blessings,