What do you people think about E.W. Kenyon??

i was just wondering :-)my faith-life has became some kind of new as i've read his books "the blood covenant", "jesus the healer" and "the 2 kinds of faith"

hmmm, have you ever read one of his books?just by the way:Hebrews 10:23Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.Hebrews 11:1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

"What I confess, I possess,"even if some carnal people tried to abuse confession, its still important (dont you realize the way the enemy tried to steal something from the church?) but i mean its crystal clear that the confession must be on a solid biblical foundation and if you know the Lords voice, then it can be on the foundation of a rhema word too, but it still must be proofable with God's word.i recommend you to read derek prince's book "prayers and proclamations" - there he explains how to use God's Word in prayerthere is also a sermon from derek called "the power of proclamation" where he basically explains the same thingsbut many thanks for your recommendations - i know to proof is a musti'd also like to let somebody else speak who won thousands for Jesus ...http://www.kenyons.org/Testimonies.htm

thank you for the historical informations on Constantinople and Nestorius, but don't believe everything some people figure on the internet! do you really wanna know something else they forbid to teach by anathema? Salvation by grace, through faith (Ephesians 2:8)but on the actual topic, watch at this:Philippians 2:6-8 (Amplified Bible)Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [[b]possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], did not [c]think this equality with God was a thing to be eagerly grasped [d]or retained, but stripped Himself [of all privileges and [e]rightful dignity], so as to assume the guise of a servant (slave), in that He became like men and was born a human being. And after He had appeared in human form, He abased and humbled Himself [still further] and carried His obedience to the extreme of death, even the death of the cross!and on the matter of spiritual deathdo you know what this means?it means to be seperated from Godand to prove this biblicallyMatthew 27:46 (King James Version)And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Neilgin1i did some research to proove the fact that Jesus performed His works by the power of the Holy Spirit and not by virtue of being God the SonActs 10:38"How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him."and behold Luke 3:21-23Jesus began his public ministry not before he was baptized with the holy spiritother than this check Philippians 2:6-8 (mentioned detailed in the post before)

I would recomend a book entitled "Another Gospel" by D.R. McConnell. He does an excellent job in researching the roots of Kenyon's heresies. Kenyon loved Jesus I'll readily admit, but he loved another Jesus, one of his own making. Kenyon's background was one of mixing the "new thought" mysticism of his day with Christianity.In Christ,Jeremy Hulsey

jsissle,and on the matter of spiritual deathdo you know what this means?it means to be seperated from Godand to prove this biblicallyMatthew 27:46 (King James Version)And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?Actually Jesus was quoting the 22nd Psalm which if you read is quite the oposite. It ends like this:Psa 22:17-31 KJVR(17) I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.(18) They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.(19) But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.(20) Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.(21) Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.(22) I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.(23) Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.(24) For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.(25) My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.(26) The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live forever.(27) All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.(28) For the kingdom is the LORD's: and he is the governor among the nations.(29) All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.(30) A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.(31) They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.Jesus' cry from the cross was not one of desparation from separation, but rather it was one of living trust and total victory!In Christ,Jeremy Hulsey

Jesus' cry from the cross was not one of desparation from separation, but rather it was one of living trust and total victory!wait, how can you say that?if you're realy saying what i'm seeing then you're saying Jesus was lying on the cross and God didn't realy forsake him???lets get way back.It's biblically logically that Jesus had to be forsaken by God because Jesus took all curses/punishments for doing something against the will of God upon himself (for us), which are among else (such as sickness, poverty, and many more) separation from God Isaiah 59:2But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hidden His face from you, so that He will not hear.Hebrews 10:14 For by a single offering He has forever completely cleansed and perfected those who are consecrated and made holy.1 Corinthians 15:3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures2 Corinthians 5:21 For our sake He made Christ to be sin Who knew no sin, so that in and through Him we might become the righteousness of God.1 Peter 3:18For Christ died for sins once [a]for all, the Righteous for the unrighteous (the Just for the unjust, the Innocent for the guilty), that He might bring us to God. In His human body He was put to death, but He was made alive in the spirit (remember He was afterwards able to walk through closed doors, John 20:19+26) (gotcha :)(24) For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.now lets have a look at this ...Psalm 22 is a messianic Psalm, no question.But have you ever realized, that the Spirit of the Lord came upon the psalmists and then the psalmists were writing in the I-Perspective what happens to Jesus or what Jesus is seeing and so on but never in the He-Perspective, so you can't refer this one on Jesus ;-)

Jsissle, Have you listened to Kenneth Copeland's debate about the 'faith teaching' and how he came to balance with teaching on 'love'.The prosperity teaching is a false teaching in the last days. The secret is to never put the teaching of any 'man' above that of our Lord Jesus Christ.All we need for growing in the Lord is in the Scriptures and being taught by Holy Spirit.All the major cults have one thing in common. They follow the teachings of a 'man'. Who claims either to have a special prophetic teaching, or a revelation that you need to have to really understand the scriptures.These are dark times and many are being decieved.It is true that E. W. Kenyon, did shop out to Spiritism to liven up his teaching. These things are against sound doctrine and devestating to your spiritual man.This verse is just for you. (2 Cor. 11:3,4)In Jesus,Aeryck:-?

None of the verses you've given establishes that Jesus was separated from God. In fact they establish that WE are separated from God by sin, our sin, and Jesus is the perfect sacrifice for sin. He took the punishment of our sin by dying on the cross, thus the words "It is finished!".Jesus wasn't separated from the Father, instead He bridged the gap between us and God.My saying that Jesus had in mind the whole passage of the 22nd Psalm is more than acceptable considering 1st century uses of quotes. By quoting the first part of the 22nd Psalm Jesus had in mind the whole passage, not just the first part. John Wesley says in his commentary:Mat 27:46 - About the ninth hour, Jesus cried with a loud voice - Our Lord's great agony probably continued these three whole hours, at the conclusion of which be thus cried out, while he suffered from God himself what was unutterable. My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? - Our Lord hereby at once expresses his trust in God, and a most distressing sense of his letting loose the powers of darkness upon him, withdrawing the comfortable discoveries of his presence, and filling his soul with a terrible sense of the wrath due to the sins which he was bearing. Psa_22:1.2Cor 5:21 does not carry with it the meaning that Jesus became "sin" but rather a better rendering of it would be that He became a "sin offering" As Albert Barnes says:2Co 5:21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us - The Greek here is, ‘for him who knew no sin, he hath made sin, or a sin-offering for us.’ The design of this very important verse is, to urge the strongest possible reason for being reconciled to God.Now having said that, the suffering of Christ was indeed GREAT. Jesus said that this was the time of the power of darkness(Lk 22:53). Certainly the consolations of peace had left Him, but even in that time He could declare His trust in the darkest of hours to ever envelope the earth when mear men crucified the Lord of glory.The theory of suffering in Hell though is COMPLETELY unbiblical.In Christ,Jeremy Hulsey

aeryck,we are neighter speaking about kenneth copeland nor about prosperitybut anyway2 Corinthians 8:9For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, so that you through his poverty might become rich.lolsee i come with the word,it's God very will that we have what we need, and even more2 Corinthians 9:8And God is able to make all grace come to you in abundance, so that you may always and under all circumstances and whatever the need [b]be self-sufficient [possessing enough to require no aid or support and furnished in abundance for every good work and charitable donation].We have also seen in the old testament, (David, Salomon) that prosperity is God's will,BUT (!) our hearts shall not belong to these things, and this is the very point to be praying about.

jsissle,If Paul had financial prosperity in mind in 2Cor 8:9 then he was most miserable among Christians. If Paul intended to say that prosperity is provided for in the atonement, he was offering the Corinthians something that he himself did not possess at the time. Indeed in 1Cor 4:11 Paul informed these same individuals that he was "hungry and thirsty," "poorly clothed," and "homeless." He also exhorted the Corinthians to be imitators of his life and teaching (1Cor.4:16).In 2Cor. 8:9 it seems clear that Paul was speaking about spiritual prosperity, not financial prosperity. This fits both the immediate context in 2Cor. and the broader context of Paul's other writings. For example, if financial prosperity was provided for in the atonement, one must wonder why Paul informed the Phillippian Christians that he had learned to be content even when going hungry(Phil. 4:11-12). One would think he would have instead claimed the prosperity in the atonement to meet his every need.Paul also wrote this to Timothy:1Ti 6:5-10 KJVR(5) Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.(6) But godliness with contentment is great gain.(7) For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.(8) And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.(9) But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.(10) For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.It is true that God will supply us with all our needs, but according to His will and His plan, not by our childish demands:Jam 4:2-3 KJVR(2) Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.(3) Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.In Christ,Jeremy Hulsey

We have also seen in the old testament, (David, Salomon) that prosperity is God's will,Try preaching that in the third world countries. The old covenant promises were temporal, earthly. But the new covenant promises are spiritual, heavenly. Belivers are not promised monetary riches(though some may be rich in that sense), but they are given something far more valuable. They are given the riches of grace here, and glory hereafter, the truths of the gospel, and robes of righteousness.Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: (Eph 1:3)No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. (Mat 6:24)Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. (Jam 5:3)For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. (Luk 12:34)In Christ,Ron

Yo Jsissle,The first command is not to be prosperous, or to make your neighbour rich. Worshipping gold is something that man has struggled with throughout History. To view serving God as a way to riches is to completely misunderstand the teaching of Jesus.We are called to purchase a pearl of great price, we are bought with a price, we are running in a race for a prize.The prize, the pearl, the true richess is the Lord Jesus Christ.As the hippies might have said in a joke:'Hey dude you got the wrong idea about bread.'Seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you. Priorities dude....the living bread which is before you now. Jesus said, "I am the bread of life"Bless God!Aeryck.8-) edit-add...interesting at the end of the life of one of the richest men who have ever lived he said these words:'Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments; for this is the whole duty of man'

For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. (Luk 12:34)prosperity is God's will, BUT (!) our hearts shall not belong to these thingsi feel its such a problem that a lot of evangelic christians reduced the gospel in their lifes to spiritual thingsi believe we must believe that God is a good God who meets our needs and not one who likes to see his children suffering

aeryck,it is about God, it is about Love, it is about doing God's willbut money is important!how do you wanna serve thousands of people without any money and it seems like you're not even believing that God acts physically the needs are real, and so is God! (not only in your mind)

i feel its such a problem that a lot of evangelic christians reduced the gospel in their lifes to spiritual thingsDo we have "spiritual" things and "carnal" things? If so we need to rid ourselves of carnality.We should be a spiritual man and never carnal.I would say that many christians have reduced christianity to a shallow spirituality with more emphasis on temproral things. This is not a response to propserity preaching or Kenyon..

All I'm really saying is that money should not be handled in a carnal matter.. but we should be spiritual in all things... Many great men of God belived God for money.. but what was there motives? You will see that the "great" men's motives were truely for God's kingdom and the men would greatfully live in a grass hut if need be.. the money wasnt for them, but for God's work. That is the dividing line. Many in the prosperity movement are on the wrong side.

i think the following "positional paper" is the greatest article on "word-faith" and the dangers within it:http://www.ag.org/top/beliefs/position_papers/4183_confession.cfmthe entire word-faith (or hyper-faith) movement was spurred by kenyon.

the entire word-faith (or hyper-faith) movement was spurred by kenyon. This is true, but it goes even further back, E.W.Kenyon was impressed and influenced by Mary Baker Eddy, founder of the Christian Science church. His involvement around her lead him to believe what the gnostic's taught: spirit is good, flesh/body is evil. Same thing the Apostle Paul had to deal with in his day. Then you have Kenneth Hagin copying almost word for word from E.W. Kenyon's material, in writing his so-called Spirit led books, which is where for the most part the Faith movement-Prosperity movement got it start. I was seriously burned in it, kicked out of a local church that was full of it. I stood up to the leadership and defended the faith, showing the errors in what they taught, compared to the scriptures, as some of you have pointed out from the life of Paul. All is well now, all is forgiven and Jesus is Lord over my heart. Clearly the Truth speaks of riches in Heaven. Riches and wealth in Wisdom, and knowledge in truly knowing Christ, in the here and now and suffering and persecution for those who desire to live godly in this world. I will choose the narrow path that leads to life-eternal!

One must be very careful and slow to conclude in studying the life and teachings of this man. The Mary Baker Eddy, Christian Science, metaphysics connections are all prime examples. Do you have concrete proof of any of this? I have not found any. Only assumptions based on weak foundations.From my studies up to this point, I agree with Gordon Lindsay who commented along the lines of Kenyon being a genius and like many geniuses was sometimes prone to excesses and extremes in certain areas. I've found a lot of very helpful and profound revelation in what I've read of his but I've also found some things I don't agree with. But I've found this to be the case in studying the works of many men of God. I highly recommend Joe McIntyre's book about Kenyon. He brings clarity concerning many misunderstandings of Kenyon and the misunderstandings propogated by some of his critics. He also shows how Kenyon was really influenced by people like A.B. Simpson, R.A. Torrey, Moody's warriors, Andrew Murray, G. Campbell Morgan, and other well known saints. Kenyon's strengths and weaknesses are discussed. It seems very well rounded and fair.

i feel its such a problem that a lot of evangelic christians reduced the gospel in their lifes to spiritual thingsDo we have "spiritual" things and "carnal" things? If so we need to rid ourselves of carnality.PreachParsly c'mon, i'm sure you know what i meant - just some kind of mind-faith which does not expect anything to be changed by faith and yet has to do everything by own strength All I'm really saying is that money should not be handled in a carnal matter.. but we should be spiritual in all things... Many great men of God belived God for money.. but what was there motives? You will see that the "great" men's motives were truely for God's kingdom and the men would greatfully live in a grass hut if need be.. the money wasnt for them, but for God's work. That is the dividing line. finally someone i can agree with!we need to have the correct attitude to thingsand i believe that the verses Hulsey mentioned (Phil. 4:11-12) are showing Paul having learned these attitudessee i just dont like the image of God some people spread like "the life with God is hard, all is bad, and it's all getting worse" but that's a lie - the bride of Jesus is getting cleaner and cleaner and God's Glory will be spread all over the earth, there will also be shakings, which are bad for the world (as for the system) but good for the Kingdom of God - if you see only the negative things then i tell you thats a freaking demon trying to dazzle your sight and trying to take the joy away from youJohn 10:10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.Proverbs 22:4Humility and the fear of the LORD bring wealth and honor and life.Hebrews 11:6And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.Isaiah 60:5Then you will see and be radiant, and your heart will thrill and rejoice; because the abundance of the sea will be turned to you, the wealth of the nations will come to you. this time it's much harder to say that the scriptures means only spiritual wealth, isnt it?Isaiah 60:11 Your gates will be open continually; they will not be closed day or night, so that men may bring to you the wealth of the nations, with their kings led in procession.and healingwaters, i'll get at your first post :-)

InTheLight,you quoted this verse like it would have no impact into the physical realm:Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: (Eph 1:3)now look at this2 Corinthians 1:20For no matter how many promises God has made, they are "Yes" in Christ. And so through him the "Amen" is spoken by us to the glory of God.(to the glory of God)i try to explain what it means to be in HimEphesians 1:7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins (but how can we be in him? who is he? how did it start?)John 1:14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. ...1 Peter 1:23For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.2 Peter 1:3-4As his divine power has given to us all things which relate to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that has called us by glory and virtue, through which he has given to us the greatest and precious promises, that through these ye may become partakers of [the] divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.John 15:7-8If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you. This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples. (also compare to John 14:13-14) 1 John 3:21Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.1 John 5:14-15And this is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.Romans 8:1-2Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, for the law of the Spirit of life [which is] in Christ Jesus [the law of our new being] has freed me from the law of sin and of death.1 John 2:5 (Amplified Bible)But he who keeps (treasures) His Word [who bears in mind His precepts, who observes His message in its entirety], truly in him has the love of and for God been perfected (completed, reached maturity). By this we may perceive (know, recognize, and be sure) that we are in Him 2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 1 Peter 1:15-16 but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY." Acts 15:19-20 It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.1 Thessalonians 4:3It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immoralityHebrews 12:14 Strive to live in peace with everybody and pursue that consecration and holiness without which no one will see the Lord.John 13:34 I give you a new commandment: that you should love one another. Just as I have loved you, so you too should love one another.Romans 13:10Love meets all the requirements and is the fulfilling of the Law.John 15:9-10I have loved you just as My Father has loved Me. Stay in My love. If you obey My teaching, you will live in My love. In this way, I have obeyed My Father's teaching and live in His love.James 1:2-4Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.James 1:15after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sinJames 4:7 Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.Nehemiah 8:10 This day is sacred to our Lord. Do not grieve, for the joy of the LORD is your strength.2 Peter 1:3-7 (Amplified Bible)For His divine power has bestowed upon us all things that [are requisite and suited] to life and godliness, through the [[a]full, personal] knowledge of Him Who called us by and to His own glory and excellence (virtue). By means of these He has bestowed on us His precious and exceedingly great promises, so that through them you may escape [by flight] from the moral decay (rottenness and corruption) that is in the world because of covetousness (lust and greed), and become sharers (partakers) of the divine nature.For this very reason, [b]adding your diligence [to the divine promises], employ every effort in [c]exercising your faith to develop virtue (excellence, resolution, Christian energy), and in [exercising] virtue [develop] knowledge (intelligence), and in [exercising] knowledge [develop] self-control, and in [exercising] self-control [develop] steadfastness (patience, endurance), and in [exercising] steadfastness [develop] godliness (piety), and in [exercising] godliness [develop] brotherly affection, and in [exercising] brotherly affection [develop] Christian love.2 John 1:6And what this love consists in is this: that we live and walk in accordance with and guided by His commandments. This is the commandment, as you have heard from the beginning, that you continue to walk in love [guided by it and following it].1 John 4:7-8 (Amplified Bible)Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and he who loves [his fellowmen] is begotten (born) of God and is coming [progressively] to know and understand God [to perceive and recognize and get a better and clearer knowledge of Him]. He who does not love has not become acquainted with God [does not and never did know Him], for God is love.Jeremiah 29:13 (Amplified Bible)Then you will seek Me, inquire for, and require Me [as a vital necessity] and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart.Hebrews 11:6without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.Habakkuk 2:4and the righteous will live by his faithRomans 14:23and whatever is not from faith is sin. 1 John 3:8He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work.1 John 1:7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.1 John 2:9-10Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness. Whoever loves his brother lives in the light, and there is nothing in him to make him stumble.John 1:12 (Amplified Bible) But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the authority (power, privilege, right) to become the children of God, that is, to those who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) His nameRomans 8:14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.Revelation 12:11 They had power over the enemy and overcame because of the blood of the Lamb and by telling what He had done for them (for our words have power). They did not love their lives but were willing to die.John 10:27My sheep hear My voice and I know them. They follow Me. (i believe that we must be close to God, and live according to His will to hear His Voice. If a sheep is far away from its way where the shepherd is, it is unable to hear His Voice (except for its a lost sheep and its shepherd seeks it) but to begin hearing God's Voice, we must first get on the right way as in being obedient to His Word and to the shepherd, as in to start a honest relationship with Him. Also compare to Isaiah 53:6, 59:2 & 2 Timothy 1:12)John 6:63It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. 1 Peter 1:23For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.1 John 3:9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 1 John 5:4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world, our faith.Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.Hebrews 10:23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.Hebrews 11:3By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the (spoken) word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible. Mark 11:23Truly I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be taken up and cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says is going to happen, it will be granted him. Galatians 5:6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

Todd,I am humbled by the wisdom of your words, both of Kenyon's biggest copycats, Kenneth Hagin and Kenneth Copeland have come to points in their ministry , well not Kenneth Hagin, he is at home with the Lord.However, a brother who was into the whole 'positive confession, faith = prosperity part of it, explained to me that Kenneth Copeland has come to see that the LOVE of GOD is more important than the FAITH teaching. He has got a book for me by Hagin, all about Love. [Getting it on Sunday. It is also on the net.]God certainly dealt with these men's hearts, like he does with each of us.There is always a danger when we look to men, instead of looking to Jesus. We need to keep that in check.Paul says , 'Not of Cephas or Appollos but of Christ...' [excuse my airsmash quote]In the end, I realize that we need to be on our gaurd against being beguiled away from the simplicity that is in Christ.Staying focussed on Jesus,The author and finisher of the faith,Aeryck.:-P

Amen!

It's sad to see how many men cannot hear the Spirit teach and love to find fault with men of God because they listen to *powerless preachers* about whom Paul minced no words: "From such turn away" in 2 Tim 3:5.

It is so clear one has to have help to misunderstand, yet these "heresy hunters," who *are* *in fact* the real heretics, ignore Paul's words... wait... they're not only Paul's words are they? They're the very Word of the Almighty God that they mock, blaspheme and take His name in vain by way of their UNBELIEF.

After all, how obtuse is, "Having a form of godliness, but DENYING THE POWER THEREOF: FROM SUCH TURN AWAY."?

There is no mistake that these blasphemers mock, condemn, accuse, find fault and DECLARE that the power of God proclaimed by these many dozens of men of God IS NOT THE POWER OF GOD AT ALL, don't they?

Have I misunderstood? Are those who are criticizing those who preach, teach and "claim" to manifest signs, wonders, healings and miracles, acknowledging the legitimacy of the power being manifested OR ARE THEY "DENYING THE POWER THEREOF"?

Am I mistaken further? Do this critics claim that there ARE MEN OF GOD WHO ARE HEALING THE SICK, RAISING THE DEAD AND CASTING OUT DEMONS, but it's ONLY those who they are criticizing whose "bad teaching" is the problem are the ones whose "POWER" is illegitimate?

Then PLEASE, BY ALL MEANS, TELL ME THE NAMES OF THE "legitimate" preachers who DO HAVE "THE POWER OF GOD" that heals the sick, raises the dead, cast out demons and perform miracles. PLEASE!

Because I've been in this over four decades and I'VE NOT YET SEEN ONE OF THESE BLASPHEMING REPROBATES ACKNOWLEDGE ONE SINGLE MAN OF GOD who does miracles, lays hands on the sick and they recover, or performs signs and wonders.

Please, whether brethren OR heretic, POINT to the man whose ministry of POWER that Paul referred to in 2 Tim 3:5 is EVIDENCE THAT YOU ARE NOT THE MAN PAUL TOLD US TO DEPART FROM!

Jesus was our pattern example and did His works by the power of the Holy Spirit, just as the Scriptures say, regardless of what the unbelieving preachers, who PRETEND they honor God and His Word, but REFUSE to believe OR obey Mark 16:17-18 and even have the temerity, because of their unbelief, to question and challenge it.

When I chose to believe God and His Word, I DECIDED TO BELIEVE that God IS God and *preserved His Word and delivered it unto us*.

I understood this as part of orthodoxy.

Simple believing faith. This isn't hard to grasp. Yet, those who want to justify their powerlessness and unbelief would rather add pretense to their other blasphemies and claim Jesus is alive but SILENT and He's CHANGED His mind and did NOT send the Church to do "the works that I do and greater works than these..."

What utter blasphemy! Yet, they pretend to be "the faithful." How absolutely and utterly ludicrous.

Now, I do consider points 1-3 below. Does that mean I should call the heretics "brethren"? The liars "friends"?

If you'll look at the strong rebukes by the leaders of the New Testament, you'll find SEVEN men of God who spoke just as harshly as I have to rebuke hypocrisy and deceit. Search them out. Those men are John the Baptist, Jesus, Stephen, Peter, Paul, James and Jude. Look and see what they said to men whose character is so corrupt they will stand up and claim they "believe the Bible from cover to cover" yet preach unbelief, powerlessness, human reasonings and the need for cemetary... er... I mean seminary.

Forgive me brethren. How inappropriate. After all, Peter and Paul were graduates of The New Testament Seminary of Jerusalem... or was it Antioch? Who needs to learn to hear the voice of God when we have learned pastors and teachers who have an esteemed heritage of justifying why no one hears God, gets healed or experiences the miracles of the New Testament.

Shame on me for pulling back the curtain, when decorum and "love" dictate that UNBELIEF SHALL RULE.

I have this "goofy" conviction that there is a place to be a faithful witness to the truth and call the Pharisees liars and hypocrites JUST AS GOD GAVE US RECORD THAT THE SEVEN DID. Jesus, who IS love, had no problem being the "faithful witness."

Should I kowtow to unbelievers masquerading as Believing Ones who preach a powerless, deceitful, false gospel of "pie in the sky by and by" while the atheists mock us because they've never seen a man of God say, "you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord? Behold, you will be blind and not be able to see the sun for a season!"

PLEASE, let me see ONE MAN STAND UP who criticizes EW Kenyon, Ken Hagin, Oral Roberts, Reinhard Bonnke, Ken Copeland or the DOZENS AND DOZENS of other men who walk in the power of God and say, "I say all those men are heretics and I cast out demons; I heal the sick; I perform miracles in Jesus' name; I speak in tongues and Jesus is my Doctor. I believe in the power of God AND MANIFEST IT but I say all these men are heretics."

I want to see you, because I've never seen ONE such man in 42 years! All I've seen are unbelievers masquerading as Believers who have a family physician and when they get sick, they head to the doctor's office and the pharmacy.

It's no wonder this nation is so full of mocking, scorning, blaspheming atheists.

Note that when Stephen said, "You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you ALWAYS resist the Holy Ghost, just as your fathers did," instead of Jesus saying, "Shhhhh, Stephen, that's gonna get you in trouble," the Majesty on high STOOD TO HIS FEET in honor of Stephen ALSO BEING A FAITHFUL WITNESS, and also, I think, to welcome him home.

There is a place to call liars, "liars, frauds, phonies and hypocrites." They have no problem doing it to the holy and we seen plainly in God's HOLY WORD that God had no problem recording when the holy did it to the PHONIES!

Amen! Good preaching, BludBaut!

P.S. As I have fittingly pointed out, there are more Scriptures in the NT than Matthew 12:36, James 1:26, Colossians 4:6. There's also 2 Tim 4:2-3, which the blaspheming liars I've just mocked have LIED about and pretended that Paul wasn't talking about THEM(!) JUST AS HE WAS IN 2 Tim 3:5.

Those who are PRETENDING they're authorities in the Word of God are liars and are deceiving millions upon millions who will FILL UP THE PEWS of the Church of the Harlot... and you can BE CERTAIN they *won't* be laying hands on the sick!