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Disaster Upon Disaster

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Exekiel 7:5 NLT

This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Disaster after disaster is coming your way! 

ӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢ

These two articles just in today September 5th 2017

From CBS News...

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico -- Tropical Storm Jose has formed in the open Atlantic far from land. 

Jose is located to the east of Hurricane Irma, which is a powerful and dangerous storm heading toward Antigua and perhaps the United States.

Irma formed on the heels of Hurricane Harvey, which displaced thousands of residents in Texas. 

Jose is the 10th tropical storm of the season. It has maximum sustained winds of 40 mph and is about 1,505 miles east of the Lesser Antilles.

Also from the National Hurticane Center...

A tropical depression formed Tuesday afternoon (Sept. 5) in the southwest Gulf of Mexico, roughly 80 miles off Mexico's east-central coast. The system is expected to move very little and remain offshore Mexico through Thursday.

The National Hurricane Center said around 4 p.m. Tuesday that the unnamed depression was located about 80 miles east of the coastal city of Tampico, Mexico. The storm is moving east at 2 miles per hour with maximum sustained winds of 35 miles per hour.

Forecasted paths show the center of the depression is expected to get caught in an area of light winds and remain offshore Mexico at least through Thursday.

By Friday, forecasters expect a region of high pressure to build over Texas and the northwestern Gulf of Mexico, steering the system toward the southwest. Five-day models show the storm strengthening into a tropical storm before drifting back over the Mexican coast and inland by Saturday afternoon. ( Another article suggested that Texas coast could be targeted again.)

Forecasters are already watching two storms approaching the Caribbean and the Gulf of Mexico -- Hurricane Irma, which strengthened into a Category 5 on Tuesday and became the strongest hurricane recorded in the Atlantic as it approached the northeast Caribbean, and Tropical Storm Jose , which formed Tuesday in the Atlantic Ocean.

Irma is forecast to hit the Leeward Islands sometime Tuesday night or early Wednesday. The Leeward Islands stretch from the Puerto Rican island of Vieques in the northwest to Dominica at the southeast end of the chain.

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Hurricane Harvey has already hit the Texas coast. The above storms are coming after Hurricane Harvey.


Isaiah 26:20-21 NASB

20Come, my people, enter into your rooms
            And close your doors behind you;
            Hide for a little while
            Until indignation runs its course.

      21For behold, the LORD is about to come out from His place
            To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;
            And the earth will reveal her bloodshed
            And will no longer cover her slain.

Revelation 16:7 NASB

And I heard the altar saying, "Yes, O Lord God, the Almighty, true and righteous are Your judgments."

1 Peter 4:7 NASB

The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer.

May we be on our faces before the holy God and cry out for mercy and repentance. For sure the Judge is standing at the door

Posted with fear and trembling.

Bro Blaine 

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sermonindex

This dear saint nails it...

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It's not nature attacking us ... rather, it is God's holy and righteous judgment being poured out upon us because we have become such a rebellious, godless, deviant people.  If He did not spare His own people from judgment what arrogance and pride we have to think He will overlook our heinous sins against Him, His creation, and each other. 

I have been repeatedly amazed by His restraint; Yet He has repeatedly been true to His Word that He doesnt desire for any to perish but there comes a point in time that His righteousness can no longer tolerate the blatant shaking of the fist in His face. 

I knew before the eclipse that it was the "sign" that His judgment will no longer be delayed.  If you think what has happened to Houston was bad, you need to prepare yourselves for what is coming because tnings are going to become worse ... MUCH worse.

It has come to the point where He has instructed me to STOP praying for His grace and mercy. He said that His grace and mercy have been so badly treated that His full wrath will NOT be appeased.  I have asked Him ..."then what can I pray?".  His response is for me to pray for those whose faith is weak and needs strengthening, because what is coming is designed to be as a refining fire, purging away everything that would offend His Holiness and Righteousness; He says to pray for those who will fall on their faces before him in total brokenness and repentance of their sins ... For his Word still holds true today ..."... a broken and contrite spirit I will not despise".  Pslm 51.

If we, as a nation, do not fall on our faces before Him in true brokenness and repentance, there will be no place to run to; no place to hide or "bug out" to. 

To the one who has received much, much is required.  America has been weighed in the balance and she has been found egregiously lacking.

This message is not one I have wanted to speak, but when I read this statement, I was compelled to respond.  Its been breaking my heart to even have to bring it.

Father God, help us today humble ourselves before You in utter brokenness and repentance!  Perhaps You may then postpone our deserved judgment for a bit longer.  Yet I clearly hear You say "Nay!!! My Judgment will not be delayed any longer!! 

ӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢ

Bro Blaine

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TMK

Who wrote it?

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sermonindex

ӢӢӢWho wrote it?ӢӢӢ

They did not give their real name. But it makes no difference. The saint is nameless. Known only to God. But the word that they give is valid.

For the record I did not write it. I simply copied and pasted with this saint shared.

Bro Blaine

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proudpapa

It can be found here :

https://www.conspiracyoutpost.com/topic/43227-wildfires-rage-in-8-western-states-over-a-million-acres-burnt/

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proudpapa

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_hurricane_season

from 1850 till present it tells : Year,\tNumber of
tropical storms, Number of
hurricanes, Number of
major hurricanes, Deaths, Damage
USD , Strongest storm, retired names.

The Great Galveston Hurricane was a Category 4 storm, with winds of up to 145 mph (233 km/h), which made landfall on September 8, 1900, in Galveston, Texas, in the United States, leaving about 6,000 to 12,000 dead. It remains to the present day the deadliest natural disaster in U.S. history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1900_Galveston_hurricane

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sermonindex

Link to Fox News Article

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/09/05/fear-grips-florida-that-monster-hurricane-irma-could-be-worse-than-harvey.html

Bro Blaine

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sermonindex

I grew up along the Gulf Coast. We had Hurricanes Audrew, Carla, Camile. But these ocvurred every few years. I cannot renember 3 cat plus hurricanes forming in rapid succession and tracking toward the US. Probabky 4 if the tropicsl depression forns in the Gulf of Mexico.

And against the hurricanes there are over 70 wildfires out west.

Judgement of God is on this nation.

Bro Blaine

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proudpapa

1886 : 12 tropical storms 10 hurricanes : Seven hurricanes struck the United States 4 where major

1887 : 19 tropical storms 11 hurricanes 2 major

1893 : 12 tropical storms 10 hurricanes 5 major : Two hurricanes caused more than 2,000 deaths in the United States
Four simultaneous hurricanes on August 22, one of two times on record

etc. etc.

Information and history of Wild fires in North America can be found here :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wildfires

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savannah

My birthday is just around the corner.

Do you think I'll be able to celebrate just one more birthday before the end?

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StirItUp

"Let those celebrating birthdays be as those who have no more birthdays..."

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TMK

It seems sort of unfair that the coastal states have to take the beating for all the other states.

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Lysa


What is this is not judgment against America (Cuba may get hit worse) but a judgment against trusting in the things of this world. We are not laying our treasures up in heavenly realms.

California is burning and Montana has something like a half million or more acres burning at once. Bangladesh has lost 1200 people or more due to floods and India is flooding, it's just not America.

People everywhere are losing, literally, the little they own to the much they own.

God bless,
Lisa

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savannah

Oh No!...no more birthdays!

"Let those celebrating birthdays be as those who have no more birthdays..."

StirItUp,

Were you instructed as Bear says he was in this quote from his post,


"It has come to the point where He has instructed me to STOP praying for His grace and mercy."

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sermonindex

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Job 28:23-25. NASB 

23 "God understands its way,
            And He knows its place.

      24 "For He looks to the ends of the earth
            And sees everything under the heavens.

      25 "When He imparted weight to the wind
            And meted out the waters by measure,

      26 When He set a limit for the rain
            And a course for the thunderbolt,

      27 Then He saw it and declared it;
            He established it and also searched it out.

      28 "And to man He said, ‘Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom;
            And to depart from evil is understanding.’”

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Nahum 1:3  ESV

The LORD is slow to anger and great in power, and the LORD will by no means clear the guilty. ӢӢӢ His way is in whirlwind and storm,ӢӢӢ and the clouds are the dust of his feet... Dots added for emphasis.

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Jeremiah 2:19.  NASB 

"Your own wickedness will correct you, And your apostasies will reprove you; Know therefore and see that it is evil and bitter For you to forsake the LORD your God, And the dread of Me is not in you," declares the Lord GOD of hosts.

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Hebrews 10:31.  NASB 

It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

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Hurricane Harvey was desscribed as a once in a 500-year storm. Others have said it is a once-in-a-lifetime storm. Estimates were that over 30 trillion gallons of water fell in the Houston area.  That is a hard thing to wrap one's mind around.  To record hurricane Harvey is considered the most destructive storm to make landfall in the US. Dwarfing even Katrina.

Now Irma, spinning around in the Atlantic, is considered the most powerful storm ever recorded in history. The storm is so powerful that it is set off seismic detectors. Seismic detectors that register earthquake activity.

Is God speaking in the whirlwind.  I believe the scriptures above answer that question. The question is. Are we fearing God for who He is and what He is about to do?

For those who would scoff at this notion then please consider the scripture below.

BEHOLD, YOU SCOFFERS, AND MARVEL, AND PERISH; FOR I AM ACCOMPLISHING A WORK IN YOUR DAYS, A WORK WHICH YOU WILL NEVER BELIEVE, THOUGH SOMEONE SHOULD DESCRIBE IT TO YOU.'"

Acts 13:41.  NASB

God is indeed speaking in the whirlwind.  But will we in fear and trembling with humility receive His word which can save our souls?

Do we fear the Lord?

Poated with utmost sobreity.

Bro Blaine 

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sermonindex

I just watched a video of Hurricane Irma in Sint Maarten, it is like a monster storm... We had a same strength supertyphoon in my native country years ago, and many people died... My location was not affected but if it were, our house's roof will not stand it...

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TMK

"His way is in the whirlwind and the storm" is a poetic way of saying "God is in control."

He is even in the great majority of tropical storms and hurricanes that never touch land.

I am curious where you see hurricanes and wildfires as judgments in scripture.

Wildfires exist because dry stuff burns, and either idiots light them for kicks or lightning ignites them

You realize that God created certain seeds cones that can only be propagated by forest fire? Why would He do such a thing?

ADD: my mom and dads home in FL is in the path of Irma so I do not take it lightly. Nor do I believe that it is a judgment from God.

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MrBillPro

The greatest disaster I see, is the folks spreading this fear...
Jesus said about the ones who needed to see signs and wonders in order to believe on Him. He said, and I will quote, "Only a wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign.” This was spoken to the pharisees who demanded to see a sign. Jesus sharply rebuked them and then told them that the only "sign” that would be given for people to believe is the sign of Jonah…in other words…the only "sign” that would be given for people to believe was the death, burial, and resurrection of the living God! Basically, Jesus was saying to the pharisees, as He still says to us today, that if you don’t believe based on the death, burial, and resurrection, then nothing else will make you truly believe. And that’s the way it still stands today. Yet many still get lured in to seeking after the supernatural signs and wonders and much of their faith is based upon such seeking. Dangerous.

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RogerB

Amazing to think of it. Hosea writes about Ephraim. God doesn't know what to do with him.

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sermonindex

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Like to article below by John Piper. He discusses will God judge America.

http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/will-america-be-judged

Bro Blaine

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Christinyou

"It has come to the point where He has instructed me to STOP praying for His grace and mercy."

WHAT>? Sorry if I am being nosey.

In Christ: Phillip

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TMK

It's a symptom of spending too much time on conspiracy websites. If you read the comments on those sites it is evident that those folks have some serious issues with balance.

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docs

Israel back in the land after almost 2,000 years. If one is looking for signs, besides Christ's resurrection and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, this is one of the most dramatic and telling signs ever! But things are the same as they always have been they say. No they aren't the same. Why? Because Israel is back in the land. If they have been brought back largely in unbelief any beefs about this should be taken up with the Lord. There is no lack of wisdom and there is no unrighteousness in Him.

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mguldner

This God's judgment talk kind of reminds me of the part in John when Jesus heals the blind man from birth.

John 9:1-5 "As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2 His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

3 "Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, "but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him. 4 As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5 While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

We should probably just heed the words of Christ and focus on doing the work given to us.

Perhaps we should also heed the words of the Angel at the beginning of Acts as well...

Acts 1:10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 "Men of Galilee,” they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

We are not called to interpret the signs of the sky but called to focus our attention on those on the ground and bring them the Gospel which if I remember correctly still means Good News.

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savannah

A poster said,

"Israel back in the land after almost 2,000 years. If one is looking for signs, besides Christ's resurrection and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, this is one of the most dramatic and telling signs ever! But things are the same as they always have been they say. No they aren't the same. Why? Because Israel is back in the land."

But...

Geography and blood have nought to do with Christ's Kingdom!

Life and death may be related in some way, but the one nullifies the other. And for that I'm eternally grateful.

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docs

/Geography and blood have nothing to for with Christ's kingdom./

Well, that same ole I'll informed misrepresentation again. It comes from the same view that told the church for generations there never ever under any circumstances would there be a return of Jews to the land.

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savannah


re: "...a return of Jews to the land."


Question: What makes one a Jew according to God?

God Himself has the answer to this question, and the Holy Spirit has inspired a written record of such answer. God has not hidden it from us, but has given us a plain and simple answer. Search the Scriptures!

A good starting place may be Galatians 4,

22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman. 23But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise. 24This is allegorically speaking: for these women are two covenants, one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar. 25Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother. 27For it is written,
            "REJOICE, BARREN WOMAN WHO DOES NOT BEAR;
            BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR;
            FOR MORE ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE DESOLATE
            THAN OF THE ONE WHO HAS A HUSBAND.”

28And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also. 30But what does the Scripture say?
            "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON,
            FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN.”

31So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.

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docs

Yes, Jews have returned to the land. There are unbelieving Jews and there are believing Jews. In places scripture refers to unbelieving Jews as Israel.

So the Jews who perished during WW II were not Jews either? Hitler just made a mistake I guess and those he rounded up was just really a case of mistaken identity.

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leyoung

Folks, we live in troubled times. No doubt about it.
Blaine's OP is just as valid as all prophetic warnings throughout the ages.
I know Blaine to be a ceaseless and tireless man of prayer whose hope and faith alone is in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Here is another believer who is from the Houston area and also runs a truthful website reporting the news in a godly way. He is also acquainted with our President and prays with others for him in DC.

His message is to believers and how in all this disaster we are reaching out to our neighbors in love and practical help.

He addresses Kim Jun Un and the threat of nuclear warfare and how to pray. I know personally that Brother Blaine has prayed with other faithful prayer warriors for years over believers in North Korea and for God's will to be done there. So Blaine has a reason for what he posted here. The only thing I would say is that we must never ever ever stop praying for God's mercy and kindness in all situations.

We must pray for our enemies and those who persecute us. That is s mandate from God and a command to love our neighbors as ourselves.
We need to pray for burned out Hollywood folks who are deceived. We must pray for our Muslim neighbors who are in our midst. We must pray for the criminals and even the MS 14's and the deluded Antifa crowd, as well as the deceived leftist reporters and politicians.

It is God's call on who will be saved. Our message never stops.
Jesus Christ saves sinners from death.

Here is James Robinson' s message today. God bless you all here who cling to Jesus, the cross, His Word and whose hope will not be disappointed.

https://stream.org/god-is-speaking-to-us-through-these-storms/

Sister L


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dolfan

Houston had a disaster. Other locales are facing disaster. It is not in any sense yet global. Widespread? Sure. Global? No.

Disaster shows us that we have no resource in this world that compares to the abundant grace, mercy, truth, provision and love that we have in Christ and among the believers. These wholesale scrapes across our infrastructure leave debris in their wake with little left of life as people knew it. But these are not yet judgment. They are important reminders of the transience and corruption of this fallen world. They call us to Christ.

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TMK

Great point Tim-

My mom and dads house in FL may be rubble on Saturday, but this morning she told me that she is thankful for His mercies every day.

My feeling is that when and if God uses nature as a judgment, it will be unprecedented, global and unmistakable.

Multiple hurricanes are not unprecedented; what we have now is 24/7 Weather channel and social media.

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sermonindex

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For one thing the blood of 60 million innocent children sacrificed on the altar of Mordock requires the Judgment of God.  

Gen.4:10

He said, "What have you done? The voice of your brother's blood is crying to Me from the ground.

God heard the blood of righteous Abel crying out to Him from the ground.  Does he not hear the cries of 60 million babies that also cry out to Him? 

Jesus said,

"See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels in heaven continually see the face of My Father who is in heaven."...Mat. 18:10

If for no other sin in this nation the murder of 60 million babies will certainly invite the wrath of God's judgement.

Jesus said unless you repent you will likewise perish.

Bro Blaine

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RogerB

In Matthew 24 Jesus tells us that ethnic against ethnic, kingdom against kingdom, wars, rumor of wars, Pestilence, Diseases, earthquakes, and all those things mean much death and destruction on the earth. Even sounds like the four horsemen riding.

However Jesus says something interesting right after;
"all these are the beginning of sorrows"

The beginning... Wow! What could be next?

Then he continues on "They will deliver you up.."

Next comes the battle for your soul. The Christians are going to be tested. No easy believe-ism here. Satan wants you, God wants you. Job was tested. Jesus was tested. All the Christians for the past 2000 years have been tested. Even the ones in Syria, Iraq and elsewhere.

All of the things Jesus mentioned in the first part were to bring about the anti-christ, his one world religion, and one world government. Now comes the great deception, the battle for your mind. Everything kind of looks like what Jesus said, but...

It looks like Jesus restored Israel, and those witnesses that the A/C will have will look the part. Then he will look the part sitting in the temple. And then there are those pesky signs and wonders he's able to do. yes the greatest event is later.

We're moving toward the great event.

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proudpapa

RE : /// If for no other sin in this nation the murder of 60 million babies will certainly invite the wrath of God's judgement.///

Who is responsible for this ?

The voters ?

If God is judging this nation with death and destruction because of its current abortion laws, Laws that can be changed by Christians voting than it would reason that Christians ought to vote ?

What have you said in the past concerning Christians whom vote ?

edit change : "must be a sin not to vote ?" to "would reason that Christians ought to vote ?"

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dolfan

All I know to do is pray.

Blaine's heart is, IMHO, right to be so burdened, frustrated and crying out for something in the heavenlies to just give already. I think I know his heart well enough to say of him he doesn't want the destruction of this judgment he honestly sees as imminent and ongoing. He wants the redemption of God's people, the conversion of the masses, and the glory of God's name to be lived out by all. His yearning matches that of the whole creation as it groans. Don't we all groan, too? I do!

Destruction is intertwined with judgment like grace is intertwined with love. In a way. Point is that when we yearn for the expected, promised revelation of Christ at His coming we also necessarily yearn for the revelation of those who are His at His coming. That means --- as much as my flesh and humanity would want otherwise -- destruction of all that is not to be redeemed. I don't want destruction BUT I DO want God's fulfillment of His plan! I want that. I long for Him. I want to see His goodness in the land of the living. AND, I must behold the goodness AND severity of God. We cannot escape the unity of these truths.

Yet, we must rest in the suspension of the culmination of God's redemption. There remains a sabbath rest for the people of God. We enter IT now. Yes, creation groans. But, it groans in hope. We groan in hope, not in bitterness.

The tunes to songs of bitterness may often sound to us like the tunes to songs of groaning, but the lyrics are not the same. We can and do conflate groaning as grumbling because we are not perfect judges of the sounds of one another's hearts. But, we could stand to clarify ourselves to make it easier on each other when we speak.

Does America DESERVE judgment? By all accounts of anyone with ears to hear, yes. But, God yet RESERVES judgment until the appointed time. I fear we may go too far in pronouncing further and faster than God performs.

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sermonindex

PP, would you acknowledge that all of Germany suffered horrendously because of the sins of the Nazi party which they either voted for or looked the other way? They allowed it to happen and there was no meaningful attempts to stop the horrors of the camps and the slaughter of the people in east.

I guess my point is, that if men (the west) can rain down judgment on every German citizen whether they had actively participated in the atrocities or not, leveling cities and killing men, women and children, then what would be the problem of America or any other nation reaping what they had collectively sown? When Israel was judged and taken into captivity by the Babylonians, all Israel suffered. Its the nature of judgement. Is this hurricane a judgment from God? You may acknowledge that you do not know any more than bro Blaine does?

Frank Bartleman handed out thousand of leaflets in which he told the people of San Francisco that the earthquake that occurred at the turn of the 20th Century was judgement from God. He was hated and even physically attacked. Shortly after that he was mightily used in the Azusa St revival............bro Frank

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rbanks

One thing we do know brethren is that God has destroyed nations and people before because of there wickedness.

But there was Abraham interceding for Sodom and the reason of Lot getting out before destruction.

There was Moses interceding for the children of Israel when God was angry over the golden calf and they corrupting themselves.

Then we know God was going to destroy Nineveh and called on the prophet Jonah to go and cry against it, but God was ready to pardon when they repented.

So what do we learn from all this, that judgment is from the Lord because of sin, but God is looking for his people not to delight in judgment but in mercy. God is looking for His people to stand in the gap and make up the hedge.

We have all sinned and if it wasn't for the grace of God would be children of wrath just like others. What does the Lord require of us but to do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with our God.

Although we should warn people and pray for people, we should never want judgment to fall, but should be interceding for others to be saved. We should never want calamity to come.

Even though God was angry and going to destroy the people, He is still looking for Christians to be humble like Moses and pray for the people. Moses had to also pray for Aaron, so we must have the Spirit of Jesus who didn't come to destroy men's lives but to save them.

Blessings....rbanks

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ccchhhrrriiisss

Jonah 3

Then the word of the Lord came to Jonah a second time: 2 "Go to the great city of Nineveh and proclaim to it the message I give you.”

3 Jonah obeyed the word of the Lord and went to Nineveh. Now Nineveh was a very large city; it took three days to go through it. 4 Jonah began by going a day’s journey into the city, proclaiming, "Forty more days and Nineveh will be overthrown.” 5 The Ninevites believed God. A fast was proclaimed, and all of them, from the greatest to the least, put on sackcloth.

6 When Jonah’s warning reached the king of Nineveh, he rose from his throne, took off his royal robes, covered himself with sackcloth and sat down in the dust. 7 This is the proclamation he issued in Nineveh:

"By the decree of the king and his nobles:

Do not let people or animals, herds or flocks, taste anything; do not let them eat or drink. 8 But let people and animals be covered with sackcloth. Let everyone call urgently on God. Let them give up their evil ways and their violence. 9 Who knows? God may yet relent and with compassion turn from his fierce anger so that we will not perish.”

10 When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he relented and did not bring on them the destruction he had threatened.

Jonah 4

But to Jonah this seemed very wrong, and he became angry. 2 He prayed to the Lord, "Isn’t this what I said, Lord, when I was still at home? That is what I tried to forestall by fleeing to Tarshish. I knew that you are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity. 3 Now, Lord, take away my life, for it is better for me to die than to live.”

4 But the Lord replied, "Is it right for you to be angry?”

5 Jonah had gone out and sat down at a place east of the city. There he made himself a shelter, sat in its shade and waited to see what would happen to the city. 6 Then the Lord God provided a leafy plant[a] and made it grow up over Jonah to give shade for his head to ease his discomfort, and Jonah was very happy about the plant. 7 But at dawn the next day God provided a worm, which chewed the plant so that it withered. 8 When the sun rose, God provided a scorching east wind, and the sun blazed on Jonah’s head so that he grew faint. He wanted to die, and said, "It would be better for me to die than to live.”

9 But God said to Jonah, "Is it right for you to be angry about the plant?”

"It is,” he said. "And I’m so angry I wish I were dead.”

10 But the Lord said, "You have been concerned about this plant, though you did not tend it or make it grow. It sprang up overnight and died overnight. 11 And should I not have concern for the great city of Nineveh, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left””and also many animals?”

(Jonah 3, 4 NIV)

* * * * * * *

* * * * * * *

I am praying for the Church to wake up.

I am praying for those who falsely consider themselves a part of the "Church" to fall in love with Christ.

I am praying for the American church.

I am praying for America.

I am praying for believers.

I am praying for unbelievers.

God doesn't want ANYONE to perish.

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sermonindex

It was only after Nineveh went through a series of plagues, famines, civil war, and a solar eclipse that they were ready for the message of repentance by Jonah.

It will only be when the church in America is completely humbled and stripped of everything other than Christ will she receive the message of repentance. And even then. Only a few will be saved. This is the terrible doctrine of the remnant that aw Tozer speaks of.

Bro Blaine

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sermonindex

I appreciate the thoughts and Scriptures that I have read that God is a God of mercy and love and His desire is that none would perish and all would come to a saving knowledge of our Lord. I am pretty sure that no one who has commented on this thread would in any way disagree with that. Looks like bro Blaine was just pointing out the very real possibility that this and other calamities could be judgement from God.

Lets say America, or the west or the world for that matter was Ninevah. Has God not been merciful to us? Has not His great love been demonstrated to us? Can we not, as the peoples of the world acknowledge that God is indeed a merciful and loving and patient God? In the 20th century it is reckoned that there was at least 600 million souls saved and it all started with the Welsh revival. 600 million saved, think about that brothers and sisters. Is this not the mercy God, saving 600 million souls in the midst of two world wars, children being shoveled into furnaces by the million, almost 60 million precious children sacrificed to the God of Moloch, and that is just in America.

There did come a point where Abraham stepped aside. There did come a point where Ninevah returned to their wickedness like the dog returning to his vomit. As far as bro Blaine is concerned, I personally do not know anyone who prays more than he does, for the world, for the persecuted, for America for Israel and so on. Ninevah was brought a strong message and they relented and repented and at some point relatively shortly after that were destroyed. Israel was brought a strong message by Jesus and the apostles ( read the first 6 chapters of Acts and see the content of the Apostles message to the crowds. It was strong and direct and to the point, they had crucified the Lord and they were guilty)

Love,is our guiding light and when the Truth is shared in love it is no less devastating, yet we live in a time when only milk will do. So many generations have had their ears tickled that their bellies cannot handle strong meat. Any strong meat given is immediately castigated as unloving. God help us..................bro Frank

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proudpapa

Bro Frank

RE : /// I guess my point is, that if men (the west) can rain down judgment on every German citizen whether they had actively participated in the atrocities or not, leveling cities and killing men, women and children, then what would be the problem of America or any other nation reaping what they had collectively sown? When Israel was judged and taken into captivity by the Babylonians, all Israel suffered. Its the nature of judgement.///

I do not disagree , I am not sure if you understood my point.

My point was that there is a hole in the logic of those whom believe all Christians should never vote, yet claim that God Judges us for the rulings/laws of our nation.

RE : /// You may acknowledge that you do not know any more than bro Blaine does? ///

That is true.
I have been meditating on this subject the last few days,
my conclusion thus far was articulated very well in Tim's post.

"Disaster shows us that we have no resource in this world that compares to the abundant grace, mercy, truth, provision and love that we have in Christ and among the believers. These wholesale scrapes across our infrastructure leave debris in their wake with little left of life as people knew it. But these are not yet judgment. They are important reminders of the transience and corruption of this fallen world. They call us to Christ." - Tim

Suppose ye that those in Florida and Texas are sinners above those in other states, because they are suffering such things ?

How about when men get cancer and other disease's ? is that always a punishment for unrepentant sin ?

Is God in control of the hurricane and the disease ?
I believe that the Scripture is very clear that He is.
But also in the Life of Job and man born blind etc. we see that we need to be very careful in attributing catastrophe and disease that others experience as punishment.

clarity

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TMK

Indeed- the southeastern US unfortunately appears to be the rear end that routinely gets paddled for the sins of the nation.

Or maybe it's just weather? Shocking thought.

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rbanks

I appreciate your love for the Lord and His people brother Bill!

My wife's brother/family lives in Goliad, Texas and he had some damage and was without power a few days but overall they are ok.

I think you still live in Houston, Texas, I was just thinking...that I hope you and yours are ok brother. We have given offerings to help out in Texas and are praying for everybody. We also have christian friends in Florida and praying for them as well.

Blessings to you...rbanks

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StirItUp

Brothers,

I do not think there is a person alive today who could claim the status of a prophet who can interpret the natural disasters that are occurring and pronounce them as the judgements of God.

We know that judgement is coming, yes, and need to be alert in how we walk and conduct ourselves.
Indeed, there are many things in this world deserving of judgement and which cause great distress to righteous souls everywhere.
Judgement, however, belongs to God and the world has never been a pleasant place in any case.

The Lord is, indeed, longsuffering toward us, if by any means His kindness can still lead some to repentance.

Every generation has had its horrors, including natural disasters. Whether they were judgements from God or not, He will not reveal to us.

It certainly is a sign of the groanings of earth, longing to be saved from corruption and to be made new, just like we long to be delivered from decay and corruption and to be clothed in glory.

Let us hear the admonitions of Peter:


1 Peter 4 verse 7 "The end of all things is near. Therefore be
alert and of sober mind so that you may pray.
8Above all, love each other deeply, because love
covers over a multitude of sins.”

1 Peter 5 verse 6 to 9:” 6Humble yourselves, therefore, under God’s
mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time.
7Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for
you.
8Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the
devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking
for someone to devour. 9Resist him, standing firm
in the faith, because you know that your fellow
believers throughout the world are undergoing
the same kind of sufferings.”

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RogerB

We need to remember that a great multitude of repentant souls will come out of the great tribulation, will have made their robes white. Surely there must be someone of the body of Christ around to help them either through their witness, be it martyrdom or their testimony.

We tend to think only of ourselves, how I am going to escape all this. Perhaps it's not God who causes these things, Man's very capable of self destruction. God's eyes are on his body and the witness that we are. Heaven rejoices when another makes the right choice.

As I mentioned earlier, the Matt 24 quote about wars, rumors of war, earthquakes, famines and pestilences, these things are just the beginning of sorrows. It's the next event, the Beast, the false prophet, the mark of the beast that will try men's souls. Your allegiance is what the powers of darkness want. They want to take you up on the high mountain and show you what can be yours if...

Our leaders seem to have all been upon that high mountain.

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docs

God will never judge His true church as He will judge the world. He may discipline, chasten and straiten it but for true believers judgment was borne by Christ. He bore sin itself, all the evil consequences that come because of sin and all the punishment due sin. Beware of voices speaking of coming judgment on the church that bring condemnation and guilt. That is not from God.

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mama27

I so very much wish that followers of Jesus could discuss issues in a more kind way on this forum. The spirit of having to prove one's point is the reason I don't post opinions here anymore. There are godly followers of Christ who believe we are under God's judgment, and there are godly followers of Christ who have the opposite viewpoint. Why can't this be discussed without sarcasm and putting down of another's views? It has been mentioned a number of times over the years that unbelievers are watching us as we take on these issues....Please can't we be kind???

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TMK

Bear is used to taking heat on this issue and he won't stay out of the kitchen. I respect him for that. He knows that he will take heat but he is stating what he believes. But nonetheless he is going to take heat.

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mama27

But can't it be "kind" heat??

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mama27

Brother Dan Biser did a session the other night on this subject...
Dan Biser: "An Appreal to the Church-Remedial Judgements & Our Response - 9/6/17"
(Sorry, I am not good at copying links)

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sermonindex

Church Remedial Judgments and the Church's response by Dan Biser

https://youtu.be/p2RYAONRvyY

Bro Blaine

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TMK

Nothing unkind has been said. There have been no personal attacks on Bear or his character. Only disagreement.

If a person expects 100% agreement with their view they should not post on a forum.

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sermonindex

A Biblical Response to Hurricane Harvey
Video is about 6 minutes long.

https://youtu.be/AL7AEiOnTdc

Bro Blaine

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mama27

It's not WHAT has been said. Of course there is room for disagreement. It is the TONE in which it is said that doesn't seem Christlike to me....

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mguldner

Tone is a very difficult thing to convey via text, often times it is lost altogether.

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sermonindex

Brethren Dan Biser is a respected member of this forum. Has anyone seen his video that was posted earlier regarding the remedial judgments and the church's response?

Also there are messages by Tim Conway and John Piper on SI. Has anyone seen that video link that was posted earlier featuring these 2 brothers.

Both videos address the judgments of God.

Bro Blaine

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TMK

I watched both.

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mama27

I realize tone is difficult to discern. Forgive me if I took it wrong.

http://danbiser.blogspot.com/2017/09/proclamation-for-day-of-fasting-prayer.html

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sermonindex

Hi PP. I think you may have missed my point. I said nothing about Houston or Florida specifically, my example was Germany, the whole nation punished for the sins of the Nazis. Not sure what voting has to do with the sins of this nation, it is just my opinion that if you vote for these politicians you only encourage them :) I do fear for the saints who put their trust in Washington DC. I think President Trump should be a good enough example of what your average politician looks like on the inside, (he does not seem to have sense enough or a control button on his tongue like the others) proud,vain arrogant men and women who only truly seek to serve themselves and their parties and not the folks.

As for cancer, disease is part and parcel of a dying world, nothing to do with judgment, although there have been men "eaten up with worms," in the Scriptures. You last point is clear enough, God is sovereign but not the author of sin. The vast majority of tornadoes and hurricanes and floods are simply the natural elements of this earth, but God created this earth and the God that created storms, calmed storms can also cause storms. A tad bit arrogant to suggest that He would not dont you think :) Lets say you have no idea if this storm is judgment or not, God has not spoken to about the matter, if that was the case, might be better not to come against those who are speaking about it and leave that to God? Just my thoughts, lest we become naysayers and those who say God is never coming back and all things remain as they always have been ................bro Frank

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ccchhhrrriiisss

I want to add that I do believe that judgment is coming. However, we should never confuse weather, eclipses, famine, starvation or disease with the supernatural "judgment of God" to punish evildoers or even as "supernatural signs" -- particularly if they are mere instances of nature that was set in motion by God from the creation of this world (or the fall of man).

When Egypt was hit by the plagues, they weren't "normal" events. They were supernatural -- something that didn't normally happen in Egypt. When God gave a sign to Gideon, it wasn't "normal." It wasn't a flip of a coin, a casting of lots or the result of something that would happen on any given day. God proved to Gideon TWICE by making something supernatural happen with a fleece.

I think that some believers are too quick to assign blame to God for something that is attributed to weather or the course of this universe and world that God created. We need to use wisdom in order to rightly divide the word of truth.

Otherwise, people might not take us seriously if we point to every natural event or tragedy that happens in this world and assign it a place alongside the plagues of Egypt. We risk becoming the "boy who cried wolf" (or worse) when we call something as a "supernatural sign" or "judgment" when it is merely a storm. Sometimes, the wind is just the wind.

If we perpetually do this with every natural phenomenon, the world may begin to ignore us.

The judgments that will come (as mentioned in Revelation) are undoubtedly supernatural signs -- and things that will baffle scientists and historians.

That said: Everything can and should be a reminder to us all to set our hearts toward God. This includes storms, earthquakes, natural solar events, sickness and tragedies. We should ALWAYS have a repentant heart. Times of calamity often have the habit of turning hearts toward God that might otherwise be distracted by other things in life.

I read a message by David Wilkerson some years back when describing people who suffer from sickness. In a way, such things can be a blessing by keeping such individuals and their family members beholden and reliant upon the Lord.

Luke 13:1-9 (NIV)

Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2 Jesus answered, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4 Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them””do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”

6 Then he told this parable: "A man had a fig tree growing in his vineyard, and he went to look for fruit on it but did not find any. 7 So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, ‘For three years now I’ve been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven’t found any. Cut it down! Why should it use up the soil?’

8 "‘Sir,’ the man replied, ‘leave it alone for one more year, and I’ll dig around it and fertilize it. 9 If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not, then cut it down.’”

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sermonindex

From CBS News...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hurricane-irma-5-6-million-asked-to-evacuate-florida/

This is considered the largest evacuation in US history. Does anybody still think that these hurricanes are normal?

Forum wake up and smell the Spirit?

Bro Blaine

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sermonindex

Some examples of what modern day scoffers might say

"And suddenly there came a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison house were shaken; and immediately all the doors were opened and everyone's chains were unfastened."

Hey, God caused an earthquake so that all our doors were opened as Paul and Silas sang.

Scoffer-No he did not, we have had earthquakes forever, it was a mere coincidence and if you keep saying stuff like that people will laugh at you.

The prophet says "2 Samuel 22:8

"Then the earth shook and quaked, The foundations of heaven were trembling And were shaken, because He was angry.

Scoffer says- it was just an earthquake, you cannot possibly say God is angry, you dont know.

Matthew 28:2
And behold, a severe earthquake had occurred, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled away the stone and sat upon it.

Scoffer- again with the earthquakes, another coincidence, God would never use earthquakes, they are simply naturally occurring.

Mark 13:8

"For nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there will be earthquakes in various places; there will also be famines. These things are merely the beginning of birth pangs."

Scoffer- Nonsense, there has always been earthquakes and famines in various places, how do you know that this is the beginning of sorrows or birth pangs? We cannot know.

The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven. He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red. And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times? A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.
(Mat 16:1-4)

Luke 21:11

And there will be great earthquakes, and in various places plagues and famines; and there will be terrors and great signs from heaven.

Scoffer- that's way to vague, that could mean anything!

2 Peter 3:3-4

Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation."

Acts 13:41

'BEHOLD, YOU SCOFFERS, AND MARVEL, AND PERISH; FOR I AM ACCOMPLISHING A WORK IN YOUR DAYS, A WORK WHICH YOU WILL NEVER BELIEVE, THOUGH SOMEONE SHOULD DESCRIBE IT TO YOU.'"

Jude 1:18

that they were saying to you, "In the last time there will be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts;

It seems equally as possibly that mockers are as dangerous as people who see every storm as God sent. What we have seen in the last 17 years with tsunamis and now hurricanes and floods is that these are even described by secular people as biblical. In the last 17 years we also saw a 9.3 that actually moved the earth slightly of its axis. This hurricane right now is the largest ever recorded coming out of the Atlantic, it comes back to back with Harvey and has one following close behind. For a Christian it would be right and proper to discern the signs of the times. I already described how more people in the last century than all other centuries combined through war and genocide. Add the genocide of unborn babies, homosexuality and homosexual marriage and transgenderism being taught to five and six year old, one denomination after another marrying homosexuals and ordaining them. You would really have to be going out in some strange scoffing limb to say we were not, at the very least, entering into the birth pangs.....bro Frank

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ccchhhrrriiisss

Hi Frank,

I'm sorry if I haven't been clear. I hope that no one believes that I -- or any of the other brethren here on SermonIndex -- are "scoffing" at the idea of judgment or the fact that signs will precede the coming of Christ. Rather, I think that we are all fully aware that the Lord is coming soon, his return is imminent and, of course, we uphold an understanding of judgment beginning in the house of God.

I do think that there is a world of difference between the examples from the Word of God that you mentioned and a typical hurricane, tornado, earthquake, etc. All of those things that are mentioned in Scripture are explicit in their purpose and undoubtedly supernatural events.

1.) The earthquake mentioned in Acts 16 was no ordinary earthquake and certainly not an act of judgment by God. Rather, it opened prison doors, loosened shackles and allowed Paul and Silas to reach the jailer for Christ.

2.) The earthquake mentioned in 2 Samuel 22:8 is somewhat ambiguous as included in this psalm by David. However, it is literally speaking of the Lord's anger causing the earthquake and not the pressure released from faults or adjacent tectonic plates.

3.) The earthquake mentioned in Matthew 28:2 was explicitly related to Christ in the tomb and the stone rolling away.

4.) The events mentioned in Mark 13:5-8 are certainly indicative of events preceding "these things" (the destruction of the Temple buildings mentioned in verse 1-4), but they certainly HAVE taken place throughout history. However, there was no statement that these were acts of God's judgment but, rather, a list of things that would precede "these things" (verse 4-5). The key phrase in this passage is in verse 7: "DO NOT BE ALARMED. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come."

5.) Luke 21:11 is similar to Mark 13:5-8.

6.) The scoffers mentioned in 2 Peter 3:3-4 are scoffing "the promise of his coming" and not whether or not an earthquake in Los Angeles, tornado in Missouri or a hurricane in Florida is an act of God's judgment or wrath upon America or the Church.

7.) Acts 13:41 is referring to people scoffing at the idea that salvation and forgiveness of sins could come through the blood of Christ (and, again, not about acts of nature).

8.) Jude 1:18 refers to scoffers following their own lusts rather than after the truths of Christ Jesus.

None of these things were attributed to the "judgment of God" upon a nation, people, individuals or the Church.

Now, when it comes to recent events:

- This Atlantic hurricane season has been the first active one with major storms to hit the U.S. in 12 years. Due to weather patterns, meteorologists predicted an above-average season early this year.
- Eclipses mentioned in previous threads as seemingly divine signs are easily calculated events that happen so often that it is almost mundane (except when it happens in areas where we live).
- There are an average of about 14,000 earthquakes of magnitude 4.0 or greater every year. Major earthquakes (7.0 or higher) happen an average of once per month. Great earthquakes (8.0 or higher) happen an average of once per year. According to the USGS, geologists and physicists believe that the frequency of major or great earthquakes are cyclical but have actually decreased over the last few centuries (despite the aforementioned averages).
- Deaths from disasters and famines can be counted in sheer numbers or rates. The numbers can be somewhat of an "apples-to-oranges" comparison because the world is vastly more populated today than it was even a decade ago. When SermonIndex started, the population of the Earth was 6.2 Billion. Today, the population is estimated to be more than 7.5 Billion.

For a sense of scope: If the entire population of China -- the world's most populous nation -- were to suddenly and collectively die today, the world would be about the same population as it was when SermonIndex began. There are more people living in China today than there was throughout every continent and country in the entire world at the time of the American Civil War. There are more than three times as many people currently living in India right now than lived on the entire Earth when Columbus set sail to the New World.

Consequently, more people die from disease, famine, pestilence, disasters, etc. However, the rates of such things have declined drastically. The Black Death killed approximately 22.5% of the entire world's population between 1346-1353 A.D. That number is shocking and almost Biblical in nature (hearkening to the "third of the earth" deaths mentioned in Revelation).

Often, there is a sense of sensationalism with media outlets when it comes to things like temperature, weather or disasters. When you hear about "largest ever recorded," it is often a product of the relatively young "recording" systems used by scientists. The modern method of uniform temperature gathering only began in about 1979 -- and a less-uniform method was used back to about 1950. The accuracy of non-uniform methods means that such temperatures aren't used when determining "records." What was the temperature on September 8 in the year 82 A.D.? No one knows. How strong was the Atlantic hurricane season that year? No one knows.

When media outlets mention that the 20 largest measured earthquakes have happened since 1900, they usually don't point out that the "Richter scale" used to measure the strength of earthquakes wasn't developed until the 1930's and the one prior to that, the "Mercalli scale," was less reliable and sparingly implemented after 1884. Prior to that, we only descriptions in writing or some geological record -- both of which lack precision for comparisons' sake.

Now, I definitely think that we can clearly assert that most of us certainly believe that God can and does use such things (e.g., disasters, famines, diseases, weather phenomenon, tragedies, etc.) to draw people back to him or wake them up from a spiritual slumber. Difficulties have a habit of making people look to the Lord. While the "birth pangs" mentioned by our Lord as preceding his return may very well be products of nature that happen often, I do believe that this is a stark contrast to a divine act of God's judgment.

In Revelation, the judgment of God will happen in a way that will be inexplicable to scientists. How will they explain the judgments associated with the seals and trumpets?

This world is plunging into the darkness of immorality and sin faster than many people thought could happen just a decade ago. The things that you mentioned are vile and the hubris of this world is getting to the point where audio/visual/print media outlets, big internet corporations and left-wing politicians are calling anyone who disagrees with their assessments "evil" and censuring their ability to speak out publicly against sin. I do think that this is a sign of the times and the approaching coming of our Lord. We are truly being despised by this world -- increasingly so -- because we believe the Word of the Lord.

Yet, at the same time, I also think that it can be dangerous to assign a status of a hurricane as a "sign" or attribute it as an act of "God's judgment" when it might simply be nothing more than a powerful weather event. I fear that saying such things assign blame to God -- almost like those mentioned in the Bible who (in error) insinuated that the collapse of the Tower of Siloam was an act of God's judgment. After all, the sun rises on the evil and the good and it rains on the just and the unjust. The Texas and Florida coasts are hit with a hurricane while places like Hollywood and San Francisco bask in the sun.

By the end of November, the hurricane season will end. The "Harvey is God's judgment" cries will fade as quickly as the "Katrina is God's judgment" cries faded. I believe that when God really does pour out his judgment upon the Earth, there will be a consensus among the true Body of Christ. Unfortunately, I have seen a trend in which certain believers who feel that they are "watchmen" speak as though their proclamations and beliefs are so certain that anyone who disagrees with their particular assessments are either mistaken, scoffing or worse.

I have been praying for those who were affected by the hurricane that hit Texas. I am praying for those who face a hurricane in Florida (and wherever else Hurricane Irma goes before it loses strength).

*EDIT - As I read what I posted, I want to make clear that I agree with much of what you've written here, Frank. I especially agree with the last part of your post. This world is truly racing toward the end.

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sermonindex

HI Chris, your only hammering home what I wrote about, by taking each point, and of course there are hundreds more examples, and applying what I would suggest is a higher criticism of them, much like the higher critics of the late 19th century and early 20 th century. They were essentially saying that there really was no supernatural events and that they all had natural explanations/ My point was that if such higher critics were around when Jesus was alive or shortly thereafter, they would make essentially the same arguments against the Apostles.

Now, let me agree with some of the spirit of what you wrote. Yes there are any number of charlatans in Christendom, even the apostle Paul wrote about those in his time who preached the Gospel for reputation or for money's sake, but of course that in no way diminished the true followers of Jesus. And so it is with the discernment of actually knowing the times in which we live and having eyes to see what the Spirit is trying to say to a lost and dying world that is literally on its last legs. If much of Christendom has fallen away in what I would strongly suggest is the great falling away ( another sign of the times) then they would truly not have eyes to see and if they could not see it, not much chance of the world being able to see it either. We know that in the end times everything that can be shaken will be shaken, literally and figuratively. We see that around the world, not just with the biggest earthquakes the world has ever saw or the biggest tsunami in all of world history or with right becoming wrong ( can you show me a time in history where much of the church has embraced homosexuality and every foul perversion?)

Can you imagine what the likes of Ravenhill and Wilkerson and Tozer would make of the times we are living in? And rapidly we, as a society has truly given itself over to perversions not performed in the dark but openly celebrated and normalized. I would suggest, and ultimately we can agree to disagree Chris, that one would literally have to close their eyes and refuse to see what times we are living in. And if Christ's return is very close, as you acknowleged, and the birth pangs have truly begin then why would it surprise anyone that we are seeing the biggest hurricane the world has every seen, or the biggest earthquakes the world has ever seen or the biggest tsunami that the world has ever seen. All of these have taken place since the beginning of the new millenium. So brother, lets agree to disagree. You say they are all very natural, nothing to see here, and I would say that much of it is very supernatural and just a part of the growing darkness, the gross darkness that is overtaking the world which we knew would happen just prior to the return of Christ..............bro Frank

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dfella

Chris said, (I do not mean to single you out Chris)

"I want to add that I do believe that judgment is coming. However, we should never confuse weather, eclipses, famine, starvation or disease with the supernatural "judgment of God" to punish evildoers or even as "supernatural signs" -- particularly if they are mere instances of nature that was set in motion by God from the creation of this world (or the fall of man).”

"I think that some believers are too quick to assign blame to God for something that is attributed to weather or the course of this universe and world that God created. We need to use wisdom in order to rightly divide the word of truth.”

Saints, In the name of God I do not mean for this to sound harsh but please quit making what is happening in these natural disasters as normal!

Please read and meditate upon the words of the prophet Ezekiel for there is great danger in minimizing or excusing what is taking place upon the earth and what the bible is replete in warning us about in the end times as well as in the past.

Ezekiel 13:1-16
(1) The LORD said:
(2) Ezekiel, son of man, condemn the prophets of Israel who say they speak in my name, but who preach messages that come from their own imagination. Tell them it's time to hear my message.
(3) I, the LORD God, say those lying prophets are doomed! They don't see visions--they make up their own messages!
(4) Israel's prophets are no better than jackals that hunt for food among the ruins of a city.
(5) They don't warn the people about coming trouble or tell them how dangerous it is to sin against me.
(6) Those prophets lie by claiming they speak for me, but I have not even chosen them to be my prophets. And they still think their words will come true.
(7) They say they're preaching my messages, but they are full of lies--I did not speak to them!
(8) So I am going to punish those lying prophets for deceiving the people of Israel with false messages.
(9) I will turn against them and no longer let them belong to my people. They will not be allowed to call themselves Israelites or even to set foot in Israel. Then they will realize that I am the LORD God.
(10) Those prophets refuse to be honest. They tell my people there will be peace, even though there's no peace to be found. They are like workers who think they can fix a shaky wall by covering it with paint.
(11) But when I send rainstorms, hailstones, and strong winds, the wall will surely collapse.
(12) People will then ask the workers why the paint didn't hold it up.
(13) That wall is the city of Jerusalem. And I, the LORD God, am so angry that I will send strong winds, rainstorms, and hailstones to destroy it.
(14) The lying prophets have tried to cover up the evil in Jerusalem, but I will tear down the city, all the way to its foundations. And when it collapses, those prophets will be killed, and everyone will know that I have done these things.
(15) The city of Jerusalem and its lying prophets will feel my fierce anger. Then I will announce that the city has fallen and that the lying prophets are dead,
(16) because they promised my people peace, when there was no peace. I, the LORD God, have spoken.

It has been mentioned that why is it that only certain parts of the country have to carry the brunt of Gods judgement upon a Nation. For me to see suffering on the part of others (Saints and Sinners)for whatever reason being that of Gods judgement, trials, testing, sowing and reaping, etc. is not easy. It is very sobering and we are to share in one another’s burdens.

1 Corinthians 12:24-26 (24) For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: (25) That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. (26) And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

We are to love one another as we love ourselves and if we do we will partake both of one another’s sufferings and comfort.

2 Corinthians 1:2-7 (2) I pray that God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ will be kind to you and will bless you with peace! (3) Praise God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! The Father is a merciful God, who always gives us comfort. (4) He comforts us when we are in trouble, so that we can share that same comfort with others in trouble. (5) We share in the terrible sufferings of Christ, but also in the wonderful comfort he gives. (6) We suffer in the hope that you will be comforted and saved. And because we are comforted, you will also be comforted, as you patiently endure suffering like ours. (7) You never disappoint us. You suffered as much as we did, and we know that you will be comforted as we were.

I do believe and whole heartedly seek to strike a balance between being wise, watchful, sober, vigilant, warning, and admonishing to stay the course versus fear mongering and peddling fear.

If our own hearts are clear there will be peace even in the midst of the storm. But for me it does not minimize the suffering on the part of others which I believe at the same time will cause us to be burdened and weighted down.

I think that is the very essence of love.

I personally believe Brother Blaine is fulfilling his role of that of a watchman and we would be wise to take heed to make sure our hearts are pure before the Lord and intercede, pray, and supplicate for one another and reach the lost.

I spoke to a young lady just yesterday gave her a tract and told her God loves her. This opened the door to share the gospel and speak about the days we are now living in.

We touched on the weather as well as the racial divide in our country and the world. After speaking with her tears were in her eyes and she thanked me for speaking to her and said she needed to hear what I said.

She said she can see what is happening all around us that something is up, something is not right and that she is not at peace. What she is seeing are signs of the end.

So I engage daily, there are no arguments, rejection, strife, division, or debates people are open, hungry, and thirsty for the truth especially amongst young people.

It might be wise for us to abandon the forum and head for the fields.

T
TMK

I and others have been praying for the complete disintegration of Irma prior to FL landfall that cannot be explained away by the weather pundits and in a manner that is clearly supernatural. It is not too late to pray for God's mercy and goodness to be evidenced to the nations.

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sermonindex

ӢӢӢ I and others have been praying for the complete disintegration of Irma prior to FL landfall that cannot be explained away by the weather pundits and in a manner that is clearly supernatural. It is not too late to pray for God's mercy and goodness to be evidenced to the nations.
ӢӢӢ

What God has decreed as judgment cannot be prayed against.

Bro Blaine

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sermonindex

As has been said, why would a particular coastal region have to pay for the sins of the whole country? What's more, it would seem as if countries in areas prone to natural disasters are especially under the wrath of God. That means that the UK (where I live and where natural disasters basically don't happen) must be in God's good books. I doubt it some how.

Also, who tends to suffer the most during natural disasters? Is it not the poor and vulnerable? It would imply that if you're rich enough, you can escape judgement. How is that at all fair and just, for a God who's judgments we are told are perfect? (Deuteronomy 32:4)

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sermonindex

2 Peter 2:3

ӢӢӢ Know this first of all, but in the last days mockers will come with their mocking,ӢӢӢ

2 Corithians 2:14

ӢӢӢ But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, for he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.ӢӢӢ

Many of the mockers who will come in the last days will be from our own ranks. They will be professing evangelical Christians who do not have the Spirit of God. The evangelical mockers will not be able to discern what the Spirit is saying to the churches. For they cannot see into the spiritual realm.  They will only see into the natural realm. They will only see with their five senses. They will have no spiritual discernment. For they will not have the Holy Spirit.  But then such do not belong to the Lord Jesus Christ as Paul says in Romans,

ӢӢӢ But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ he does not belong to Him.ӢӢӢ Romans 8:9

God has a warning to the mockers.

”¢”¢”¢ Look, you scoffers, be astounded and perish; for I am doing a work in your days, a work that you will not believe, even if one tells it to you.’””¢”¢”¢Acts 13:41 ESV

Let us be careful that we do not mock what God is doing through judgement. Let us not be the scoffers that are astounded and will ultimately perrish.  Rather let us worship God on our faces and give glory to the God of Heaven.

Bro Blaine 

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RogerB

I don't think that the tribulation is judgement from God. Jesus returns and cuts it off less there be no flesh left alive. He comes and smashes that image Nebuchadnezzar saw that has been an abomination for ever. That's the cause of all the world's problems.

The four horsemen are caused by the working of men. The false Christ, the wars, the famine and death. We could probably place names for each one.

Looking back at Daniels prophecy about the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place; The Strength that was killed was Messiah and that ended the sacrifice. But in his place has been placed this substitute, this abomination. And because of this substitute we see wars and abominations of desolation following until he is put away. He is the shadow figure behind all the worlds problems. Why do you think Russia is surrounded? His flag and authority isn't there. it must be conquered.

Esau broke Jacob's stranglehold when the Messiah was killed. Now he has his foot on Jacob's neck (Believers). Jacob's trouble. This Esau hates Jews and Chrisitans because they represent Jacob. Esau represents Baal. In Hosea we see where Ephraim chose Baal and died; spiritually. America is really deep doo. God please help us is my cry.

C
ccchhhrrriiisss

Hi Bro Blaine,

I do want to touch one last thing (I think) before I depart from this thread.

I don't think that anyone here among "our own ranks" is mocking anyone. I don't think that anyone is scoffing at the events that transpire that you or others may equate to "judgment." Natural disasters are real. I know people who were in the path of Hurricane Harvey. Many of the people that I knew are sincere believers and some of them suffered great financial loss.

One of the individuals who suffered such loss is a missionary (an evangelist) who travels mostly to third world nations preaching the Gospel. He lives upon meager means and in what many Americans would describe as "poverty." He doesn't see this as "judgment" either. Even with such loss, he is of the mindset that it is just "stuff" that belongs to God anyway. After all, he believes that God wants us to be so attached to Christ and detached from the things of this world that we are ready to depart from this life at any moment anyway.

I am grateful for such a testimony even through a storm and a disaster.

Again: No one is scoffing at a storm. No one is mocking a storm. There are some who question your apparent interpretation of that hurricane and this hurricane as a divine act of judgment or a cyclical solar eclipse as a "sign."

When someone makes such a proclamation -- leaving no room for doubt -- that such natural events are indeed the supernatural judgment of God, it seems like they treat anyone with a different outlook as "scoffers" or "mockers." We are simply trying to reason together.

There is a great danger in making a proclamation that you think to be true and then issuing a warning that anyone who might disagree with all or part of your assessment (let me quote your words) "do not have the Spirit of God," "cannot see in the spiritual realm," or that they have "no spiritual discernment."

If you're pointing the finger -- mocking others who may disagree with you -- and proclaiming that they "will not have the Holy Spirit" or "do not belong to the Lord Jesus Christ," then you're in danger of doing something that is far more horrendous than a hurricane.

Let me ask you simply: Do you believe this about those who do not agree with your view of the recent eclipse?

If so, who is doing the scoffing and mocking?

That is the point that I am trying to make. You wrote, "Let us be careful that we do not mock WHAT GOD IS DOING THROUGH JUDGMENT."

There is great difference between disagreeing with your assessment about an event and whether it may or may not be judgment and "scoffing" or "mocking."

My issue is with two things:
1.) Making such proclamations with absolute certainty (i.e., "what God is doing through judgment" as though your opinion of the matter isn't open for consideration).
2.) The public dismissal of those who might disagree with your opinion.

Brother, I totally agree with the need for a message in this day and age to "flee from the wrath to come." The Lord IS coming again. The earth itself with experience birth pangs before the end and the planet will soon experience the wrath of God. The world is sinking into levels of depravity that would have shocked people just a few decades ago. Yet, those signs are largely seen in the people of this world and what they do.

I truly appreciate your sincerity. I do think that we should be less dismissive of the sincerity of others though. If someone doesn't agree in part or in full with something that we say, we shouldn't make the public assumption that they "do not have the Spirit of God." We already receive scoffing and mockery from this world. It would be unfortunate to receive it from others in the Body of Christ too.

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sermonindex

Luke 18:8

However, when the son of man comes will he find faith on the Earth?

Jesus asks a very penetrating question. We know that when He does return many will have taken the mark of the beast and rejected Christ. So why would Jesus be asking will He find faith on the Earth.

Can it be that Jesus is asking those who profess to follow Him will He find faith in them? Will he find faith in in their hearts? Will he find a faith that will look forward to His soon return? Will He find a faith that believes He is acting in the signs of judgement? Will He find a faith to believe that He is bringing them to repentance?

Or will he find within our own ranks scoffing and unbelief? I say it again the biggest scoffers who reject the coming of Jesus Christ are evangelical Christians. The biggest scoffers who reject the idea that God is judging through hurricanes and earthquakes are evangelical Christians.

It is easy to excuse the secular atheist in their unbelief. For they simply do not believe that God exists. But there is no excuse within our own ranks of the unbelief and scoffing. We are the ones that are supposed to have the truth of Jesus Christ in our hearts. We are the ones that are supposed to believe in the scriptures. Yet the biggest unbelief comes within our own ranks of those who reject the notion that Christ will soon return. The biggest unbelief comes within our own ranks that reject the notion that God is judging the Earth through hurricanes, earthquakes, plagues, famines, Etc.

In essence many Evangelical Christians are Evangelical atheist. They simply do not believe. It has been said that God's controversy with his church is unbelief. Just as it was in the Old Testament with Israel that they did not believe. So it is with the church in America on the New Testanent that she does not believe. Perhaps even in this forum there are those who do not believe in the return of Jesus Christ. I know there are some in this forum who did not acknowledge God's judgments through the hurricanes and earthquakes.

To go back to the question of Jesus will he find faith on the Earth. I would say yes but only to the few who are entering through the narrow way. There are a few who will believe that Jesus will return and will acknowledge the signs that point to his return. But to the many in our ranks who will not acknowledge the return of Jesus. To the men in our ranks who will not see God working in the signs that bring His judgments. I can only shudder. My heart cry to those who scoff at the return of Jesus and his signs would be repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Bro Blaine

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RogerB

amen

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sermonindex

I post some simple, genuine questions and in response I get implicitly accused of being a scoffer, a mocker and an evangelical atheist. This forum has indeed become a harsh place.

T
TMK

Bear, you have officially lost it I am very sorry to say.

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MrBillPro

I went back and edited all my comments, I'm sorry old sluefoot ever was able to lure me into this thread, may God forgive me.......

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proudpapa

RE : /// As for cancer, disease is part and parcel of a dying world, nothing to do with judgment, although there have been men "eaten up with worms,"///

Disease as a judgement seems to be the context of the majority of the verses I find in the Old Testament concerning disease : Exodus 15:26 Deuteronomy 7:15 Deuteronomy 28:60 2 Chronicles 21:18 etc.

Now in the New Testament the context of disease seems to be used in a different context and that is of healing in the majority if not all of the verses I looked at :
Matthew 4:24 ,Matthew 9:20, Matthew 9:35 ,
Matthew 14:35 , Acts 19:12 , Acts 28:9

I wounder if something has changed between the Old Testament dispensation and that of the New ?

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rbanks

Yes proudpapa...you bring up a good point.

The Old Testament was the dispensation of the Law.

The New Testament is Jesus coming to bring grace and truth.

Jesus even told Peter, when he was asking to command fire to fall on the people like Elijah did, that he didn't realize what Spirit he was of, because the Son of Man didn't come to destroy men's lives but to save them.

We must not desire judgment but mercy, because we are still in the day of grace. We must desire people to be saved from the wrath to come.

Blessings....rbanks

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rbanks

Continuing from last post...

The Bible tells us that the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness...it even tell us that those that do not believe in Jesus, that the wrath of God abides on them. We must understand that at one time the wrath of God was abiding on us as well.

It is dangerous to desire judgment because we are to love our neighbor as ourself. What does the Lord require of us but to do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with our God.

Blessings...rbanks

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sermonindex

”¢”¢”¢Â For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?”¢”¢”¢ 1 Peter 4:17

”¢”¢”¢Â For we know Him who said, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY." And again, "THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE."”¢”¢”¢ Hebrews 10:30

The verses above tell us that God will judge His church. God will judge His people.  This is in the New Testament.  But someone will argue was not judgement taken care of at the cross. Why is God going to judge His people.

The Lord Jesus Christ is seeking a pure bride to take home to be with Him.  He is desiring a holy bride.  If anything the American church is far from being pure and holy in the eyes of Christ.

Thus God will send judgment upon the American Church to purify her and refine her.  These judgments may be in the form of persecution, an economic collapse, natural disasters in the form of hurricanes and earthquakes, perhaps even an invading army.

Yet many will argue this is preposterous. God would never judge His American church.  We are covered by the blood of the cross and we are under grace. To say that an economic collapse or an invading army or a hurricane or an earthquake is a judgment on the American churche is of Satan. Those who would dare to speak such are of Satan. 

Then please explain the versus above.  The hearers of 1st Peter and Hebrews were all under grace and covered by the blood of Christ. Yet the writers of those letter said that God would judge the people who follow Christ. If they were judged particular in the persecutions they endured. Are we so arrogant to think that we too will escape the Judgment of God.  Do we think that we as an American Church in our self-centeredness and our sin are pleasing to Christ.  If we think such then we are surely deceiving ourselves. That deception will surely lead to the eternal destruction of our souls.

God must judge the American Church to bring forth a holy remnant.  Judgement in America will begin with the American evangelical church. To deny this reality is to deny the very word of God itself. God must judge the American Church to bring forth a holy remnant to himself.  And that judgment could very well be in the form of hurricanes, earthquakes, an economic collapse, or an invading army Whatever it takes for God to purify for Himself a holy remnant.

If anything can be said about these storms God is wanting His people to repent. He is wanting His people to turn back to Him.  He is wanting His people to be holy as He is Holy. He will do this through whatever means He deems necessary to purify His church.

Let us not despise the judgments of God as He judges us. Let us be on our faces before him repenting of our sinful life. Let us ask him to help us to live a holy Life as unto Him.  For God is purifying His bride in America through judgments.


Bro Blaine 

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rbanks

1 Peter 4:17-18
17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

James 2:12-13
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath showed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.


Brother Blaine,

You talk about one that fears God...brother you have no way of knowing how much I fear God. I fear God more than most people I know. The fear of the Lord is to depart from evil. There are many things that other so called Christians do that I want do, because I have been saved, baptized in the Holy Ghost, and sanctified unto God. I could give you a list of the things God has done miraculously in my life but I want because I am nothing. He is everything to me and His Word is my delight but I hunger for more. I feel so inadequate at times and desire to be formed to Christ completely.

I witness to people, I preach repentance, the altar, the blood. and the Cross of Christ. I believe that the majority of the churches in the USA is full of tares instead of wheat. I believe that one must be born again to enter the Kingdom of God and many are not born again. I want to see people saved and filled with the Spirit to live a victorious life in Christ.

It does not thrill me that many in the churches of the US as well as the world are no truly saved. It does not make me happy that many are going to experience the wrath of God, if they do not turn to Christ with all their heart. I must preached the truth in love and I must warn others in love. This world is already condemn but yet Jesus did not come to condemn but He came to save.

We must not condemn others but leave that to God to do in His time. It is not his desire for any to perish but that all would come to repentance. We are not to take the place of God, he said vengeance is mine says the Lord. We must desire mercy because it rejoices over judgment. If we judge then we will be judged on how we judge others. We are to judge righteously in order to help a person come to repentance. We must treat others the way we would have them to treat us.

We must love our neighbor as ourselves. When women, children, sickly, elderly people are suffering, some even to death because of a hurricane or other disasters, we must not be approving of it unless we want this to happen to us. We must understand that we were once children of wrath ourselves. We must lay down our lives for others as Jesus did. We love Him because He first loved us. He suffered on the Cross for the ungodly. God gets no pleasure out of the death of the wicked. You know he gets no pleasure out of the death of babies or children. Why should we as Christians claim that we should not pray that people would be safe from disaster.

Blaine, would you beat up one of your children to within an inch of their Life and killed the other one. Then go to the funeral and cry over the one you killed and then the one you almost killed, spend all your energy and money to nurse the one back to health. Does this make sense to you? Many Christians are praying and spending money working hard to help their neighbor recover from these disasters because it is the Christin thing to do because we are to show God's love.

I don't know where you live Blaine, but if it was somewhere that a tornado was going right toward your house that would tear up everything you owned and would leave you paralyzed from your neck down, even though you had fell into a temptation that you where now living in sin and I knew it. I would still pray for you that the tornado would not go there, I would pray that you wouldn't be harmed because of God's love. I would pray that the goodness of God would lead you to repentance. I would pray that you would get a vision of Calvary and the love of Jesus for you. I believe it's the goodness of God in offering His Son to suffer and die for your sins that bring people to repentance, not bringing disasters on people.

Blessings...rbanks

S
savannah


Amos 3:6

Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD has not done it?

Evil here is not the commission of iniquity, but the pressure of distress. Consider the Lord's agency in the infliction of evil, in contradistinction to ””

I. CHANCE. The truth is, chance is a mere term of human ignorance. The only rational meaning of the word is that we are in ignorance of the cause or causes of the event. There is an atheism which denies the existence of a God altogether. And there is an atheism which admits the existence, but denies all superintendence of human or created beings," and of their respective concerns. We might as well have no God as no providence. The sentiment of the text is the reverse of this. It is, that there is a God, and that He directs and governs all things. In what strong and delightful terms is the doctrine of a universal and particular providence expressed by Him who " spake as never man spake" (Matthew 10:29-31).

II. DISTINGUISH THE AGENCY OF JEHOVAH FROM THAT OF IDOLS. There is a tendency in man to two opposite extremes, atheism and superstition. Superstition is the offspring of guilty fears; and the general character of the gods of the heathen, in many cases indicated by their very forms, accords with the nature of their origin. Again, there has discovered itself, wherever the knowledge of the true God has been imparted, a mournfully consistent propensity to forget Him, to overlook His superintendence, to leave Him out of our thoughts.

III. DIVINE AGENCY MAY BE REGARDED IN CONTRADISTINCTION TO AN EXCLUSIVE ATTENTION TO SECOND CAUSES. How frequently is something called Nature deified! And second and subordinate causes are so contemplated and insisted on, as to indicate an exclusion from the mind of the great originating cause of all being, and the supreme uncontrolled Director of all events! In accounting for our calamities we are in imminent danger of this kind of atheism. All second causes are under the unceasing and sovereign control of the First. Thus it is with the elements of nature. There are laws; we forget that they are His laws. We have not done enough when we have accounted for disease from the state of the atmosphere, for the desolations of the storm from the theory of the winds, for deficient crops from blight and grub and mildew. We must go higher. We must rise to Him by whom all these, with every other power of mischief, are commissioned to work their respective effects. The same great general truth applies to men and to the events of history, in which men are the agents. Learn that the existing national evils or calamities, though inflicted by a power which we cannot resist, are not inflicted in caprice. It is painful to hear the inconsiderate manner in which many speak of the Divine "sovereignty." While God may retain in His own mind the special causes of particular visitations, He has not left us in ignorance of the great general cause of all suffering. Natural evil is the offspring of moral evil. All good is from God; all evil is from the sinner himself. All evil is of the nature of punitive, righteous retribution.

Ralph Wardlaw

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TMK

Savannah-

I have read this post carefully. It is obvious the writer holds to an idea of meticulous sovereignty which would make God directly responsible for the most horrid evils such as the sexual abuse of infants.

I am not sure if the point of this article in regard to the discussion at hand. It seems to be that while God is directly responsible for this hurricane it may not actually be a "judgment." But I am just guessing.

T
TMK

Duplicate post

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sermonindex

I was asked why am I preaching the message of judgment and repentance to the saved. That is if my posts can be construed as preaching. The answer is that the so-called professing saved in America need to repent. Judgment begins with the household of God and God will judge his people. I've put the verses supporting this in a previous post.

The church in America is under judgement. That is because we have failed to judge ourselves and come to repentance before God. Paul writes in 1st Corinthians 11:10-11,

ӢӢӢ But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.ӢӢӢ

God has judged his church in America and she has been found lacking. The hurricanes that are striking the mainland of this country and the other judgments that will soon follow are ordained by God. They have one goal in mind and that is to bring His people to repentance. These judgments cannot be prayed away. Maybe repented away but not prayed away. These judgments are decreed by God and they are designed to bring the church to repentance.

Repentance means turning away from our sins and turning toward the Lord Jesus Christ. Repentance means living apart from this world through the cross of Jesus Christ.

Many of you in this forum think that I am of a callous heart and do not care for the people in Houston or in Florida. I have intercessors in both of those cities and my heart goes out for them as well as for their families. I have friends in Houston. A lot of our Persecution Watch calls have been taken up praying for those in Houston and Florida that God would protect them and meet their needs. So others and myself care very much what is happening to those who are in Houston and Florida.

But the most sobering thing we have to pray about in the midst of these judgments is that God will bring his church to repentance. In a forum that promotes genuine Christ-centered biblical revival. in a forum that has messages on repentance by men such as David Wilkerson and A. W. Tozer. This should not be a difficult topic to bring up on this board. Yet this is a topic that is despised by many. By many who profess to be saved in the Lord Jesus Christ.

I came on sermon index around 2010. I was not involved in the forum when Greg first started it. But I go back and look at some of those earlier threads and there was more serious discussion on repentance that would lead to revival. But this forum is a microcosm of the American Church. Has he church has left the sobriety of the things of Christ so has this forum.

If a poster wants to open up a thread on his testimony of a flat Earth. Then so be it as this seems to be the superficiality of where many in this forum are going

But personally I do not have time to play games given the urgency of the hour. I will speak on those matters that concern heaven and hell and the eternal state of one's soul. And this will not be popular with many. But then popularity is something I take to the cross and crucify.

Therefore I would rather stand with God and be judged by this forum than stand with this forum and be judged by God.

The hurricanes that are coming up on this nation are ordained by God. They are ordained by God to bring his church in America to repentance. The solar eclipse was ordained by God as his means of judgment upon the nation. I cannot help but think that we are already entering the tribulation. As such things are not going to get better but they're going to get increasingly worse until the time of the return of Jesus. Grace has run out for this nation. Even a revival will not turn back the hand of God's judgment upon the American church.

Yes America has been judged. But more importantly the church in America has been judged and she has been found wanting. Unless we repent the church in America will be cut off. Though God will always have a faithful remnant. The sobering question we need to ask ourself is are we of that remnant. The solution to the disasters is for us to repent. For his Jesus said in Luke 13 unless you repent you will likewise perish. I will put myself in that and say unless we repent we will likewise perish.

Jesus teaches in Matthew and Luke that only a few are going to be saved. We are described to enter through the narrow gate. For many will try to enter and will not be able to. This is not a salvation of works but these are the words of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. We must cry out to God and ask him for the grace and the help of the Holy Spirit to enable us to live a repentant lifestyle. And that can only come through camping at the foot of the cross of Jesus.

Again let us take the words of Jesus too heart. Unless we repent we will likewise perish.

Bro Blaine

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savannah

Bear,

Please elaborate on the following,

"The hurricanes that are striking the mainland of this country and the other judgments that will soon follow are ordained by God."

(specifically, if you would please, elaborate on this, "...the other judgments that will soon follow...") - What other judgments and how soon will they follow?


You also said,

"I cannot help but think that we are already entering the tribulation."

Are you saying, we are entering the tribulation?

I would just like to have some clarity as to what you are, and what you are not saying.

Thanks

S
savannah


Todd,

You began your post with these words,

"I have read this post carefully."

You then went on to accuse the man of believing about God that which he does not. You must have missed what he said toward the end of what he wrote. It is very clearly stated what he believes. Read it for yourself,

"All good is from God; all evil is from the sinner himself."

Maybe in the future you should read posts even more carefully.

T
TMK

It is this statement that I cannot reconcile:

"All second causes are under the unceasing and sovereign control of the First. "

By First I assume he means God since it is capitalized.

G
Gloryandgrace

I agree these storms, earthquakes, fires are all part of God's judgments and messaging the Church and our Country.
That message needs some filtering through the Church who mixes the judgments of God with the offer of the gospel.

It's also important (as another brother has already eloquently spoke) that differences of opinion do not constitute rebellions, arrogance or mocking. Its does mean that there are more things to consider than the strong assertions made by some who conclude some disagreement is tantamount to God-resistance.

The Church can be guilty of a great deal of sins and failures and those faithful watchmen who warn of corrections and punishments do rightly to the Church. Yet, do not think for a moment those who are born of God are somehow cast off merely because they do not see something as clearly as a watchman does. (Granting they are being a faithful watchman). It takes some humility, care and concern for the Church in the form of gentleness to those who do not discern what a watchman sees and do not understand all that an experienced and obedient believer knows. If you are going to be a watchman do not forget your first duty to love the believers as you love yourself. This means patience not even stronger and bolder claims. This means carefully resisting the temptation to condemn others who on the surface resist what you're saying. This also means consider their fearfulness, their perplexity...and remember you too must submit yourself to them as you require them to submit to you.
We have a great opportunity to show what watchman are and what benefit they can be to others. Do not spoil it with what you think is a prophetic action when its very doubtful such actions represent Christ.
There are some who love to represent Christ with the whip and cord driving out the money changers...just as there are some who tenderly forgive the adulteress and let them go without a rebuke.
Concentrate on what it means to bear the cross to your brothers and sisters, not just bearing the "burden of the Lord" where you have a woeful message to give.

Old testament prophets are gone, and I mean gone never to return. There are new testament prophets who function in accordance with new testament revelation and realization that the people they are charged to speak too are also loved, treasured, called, justified and delivered.
If you mistakenly venture into old testament prophetic imitation...believe me it will be simply an imitation of what is true without being true.
Guard your spirit, set a watch over your own mouth and do not think that because you can string together some woeful passages seemly corresponding to our current events that you are hearing the spirit of God and have a message for the Church. There is far more to being a prophet of God than merely attacking falsehood and naming some way-ward preachers; God's character is a part of God's message in a prophet or a watchman remember that Character is illustrated by Christ and its Him we are following.

M
MrBillPro

Brother Greg locked the flat earth thread, can we all just pray this one will be next, in Jesus name!

S
savannah

Todd,

Please tell me what or who is NOT under God's control. I know from the book of Job that Satan is under His control. Again, is there anything or anyone that is NOT under God's control?

And also,

Re:  sinners and circumstances; can God,

1)Kill
2)Prevent
3)Turn
4)Change
5)Control

I ask, if your child were drowning, and I stood by the pool and watched, and your child drowned, when I, a good swimmer was very capable of rescuing your child, what would you think of me?

Many such scenarios might be brought forward to negate your logic in assuming that one makes God to be "directly responsible for the most horrid evils..." if He does not intervene when He is very capable of doing so. Your only answer could be one of two, or both;

1) God is not all loving
2) God is not all powerful

I await your reply.

S
sermonindex

Ӣ
”¢”¢”¢Â Now on the same occasion there were some present who reported to Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices.  And Jesus said to them, "Do you suppose that these Galileans were greater sinners than all other Galileans because they suffered this fate?  "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.  "Or do you suppose that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem?  "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish." ”¢”¢”¢Luke 13:1-5

Above Jesus describes two events where lives were lost. In both of these events Jesus said do you think that these were greater sinners because they suffered this fate. He says "no" but unless you repent you will likewise perish. 

Two events that happened during the time of Jesus resulted in a loss of life. But because lives were lost they were not greater sinners than those whose lives were not lost. The message that Jesus is communicating... Unless you repent you will likewise perish.

Both Houston and Florida were hit by nassive Category 5 hurricanes. Why were these areas singled out by God for this devastation?  Were these areas worst sinners than all of the other areas that God could have chosen?  Why were not Los Angelas or Las Vegas, or New York City, singled out for devastation.  I cannot understand why God chose Florida and Texas for hurricane devastation as opposed to other cities that were worst sinners. But the message of God is clear... Unless you repent you will likewise perish.

Given the massive strength of these storms, particularly hurricane Irma. It is a wonder that there was not a greater loss of life. And for that we praise God.  And grieve and pray for those that did lose loved ones in these storms.

But there is a mercy here. God could have easily used these storms to bring about a greater casualty in human fatalities. But in these two storms God was being merciful in communicating His message to the American evangelical church. The message is...Unless you repent you will likewise perish.

The fact that the storms moved slowly on Florida is indicative of God being slow to anger. This is indicative of God's mercy that there was not a greater loss of human life. Certainly one life taken in the storms is one life too many. But the fact God in His mercy did not have a higher body count should be indicative of His nercy to the church.  And in His mercy He wants the church to repent. That is He wants the American church to turn to Him in repentance and forsake their sins. And come back to faith in Jesus Christ.

I stand amazed that truly this is God remembering mercy in the midst of His wrath.  This is God in His nercy triumphing over judgement.

But how will the American church respond.  Will it be going back to business as usual. Once the cleanup starts. Will it be hitting the snooze alarm and going back to sleep. Will it be going back to the same old same old.

Or will it be that the church wIll awaken and go to deeper prayer and repenting and returning to the Lord Jesus Christ.

Right now Hurricane Jose is looping in the Atlantic.  It is not expected to do anything until this coming Friday. Could it be that for a time God is sparing this hurricane from hitting the mainland to see what the response of the church will be? Could it be that God is waiting for the response of the American church to see if she will repent and forsake her sin?

Will the church in America repent and turn back to the Lord Jesus Christ? Or will the American church and those in this forum continue to mock and scoff at what God is doing? That is what God is doing in His judgments through the storms.

God has spoken. Are we listening? And how will we respond?

Posted with utmost sobriety.

Bro Blaine 

M
MrBillPro

bearmaster said...Will the church in America repent and turn back to the Lord Jesus Christ? Or will the American church and those in this forum continue to mock and scoff at what God is doing? That is what God is doing in His judgments through the storms.

God has spoken. Are we listening? And how will we respond?

Bear, I'm guessing you to are a member of that same American Church, unless God has put you on a throne of some kind. You're also included in this forum, so are you also mocking and scoffing at what God is doing? this is the way I'm receiving your message since you've painted your thoughts with such a wide brush. God has spoken? spoken to who, you? He hasn't spoken to me about this at all, why would he not tell me the same? do you have some sort of dedicated hot line to God, by the way if God spoke to all of us the same, he would just put you in charge of delivering the message to all the rest of us, has he spoken to you and given you that authority?

God has a will for all of his children,this is probably why he hasn't spoken to me about all this, he wants me to focus on him rather than these common disasters, that old slue foot wants to use to take my focus off God. Mr. Bear, maybe you need to get yourself a narrower brush, unless God told you to call us members of SI mockers and scoffers, I don't know about the rest, but if God told you specifically to tell you to call me this, please let me know, so I can be in prayer about this.

S
savannah

Hurricane Hurricane
The child shouted
Quiet quiet
The parent touted

Listen listen
He cried again
Sleep sleep
It's after ten

But I hear a trumpet
And its o so loud
But I'm wide awake
And I don't see a cloud

Dream on dream on
All will be well
No fear no fear
There's no heaven or hell

No big deal
No big deal
But it all seems
So very real

Many years ago
The same was said
O Please be quiet
And go to bed

I just can't sleep
I can only weep
It's like a secret
You just can't keep

I'll just go away now
And sing a song
All the while hoping
That you were wrong

See you in the morning
When the night is through
We'll have a celebration
Cause it wasn't true

R
rbanks

Blessings brother Blaine...(BTW Savanah always feeds off of things like this from other people's post) from one who is crucified to the world and the world crucified unto me.

This post is written from one who has repented of their sins, from one who is dead to sin and alive unto God, from one who walks in the Holy Spirit daily, From one who denies himself, takes up his cross, and is following Jesus.

I do not believe that God is specifically using hurricane Hosea or any other, as a threat to a people, that if they don't repent,...because there are plenty of places and people that Hosea will not even come near.

I would like to say Blaine, that I do appreciate your tone of more mercy in your last post, than the judgments you have been lashing out to your brethren on SI, accusing them...and I mean being so judgmental toward others.

I do hope you will read on this thread and the "judgments of God" thread the posts that Marvin (Gloryandgrace) wrote. There is a lot wisdom to be gain concerning how we relate to others. I believe as he does concerning the crucified life. I believe we are missing something of vital importance that can only be displayed in us having been crucified ourselves.

There must also be a brokenness in us that would not allow us to lash out at people with judgment. But we must be poured out as an offering unto God.

Ephesians 5:1-2
1 Be ye therefore followers of God as dear children:
2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savor.

A new commandment Jesus said....that we are to love one another as he loved us. He laid down his life for us, and we should lay down our lives for one another. There is no greater love! Jesus didn't save people or win people to himself by threading judgment upon them...no...he became the sacrifice for them. He took the judgments of God for them upon himself in His death upon the Cross.

Yes...he did say that if we don't repent we will all perish, but we must keep in mine that he was already headed to the Cross to suffer for their sins. Man cannot repent without God leading him to repentance. Mankind cannot be saved without Christ being revealed to their heart.

When Peter preached on the day of Pentecost where 3000 souls were saved, He preached Jesus Christ unto them and how they crucified Him. He preached Jesus Christ and him crucified, and this was what Paul and the others also preached. They never threatened the people with disasters. They urged the people to repent of their sins and believe on Jesus Christ who died for their sins. They preached that the people would perish in their sins if they didn't believe in Jesus Christ. They also stated how they also have believed in Jesus Christ to save them from their sins.

People die everyday from so many different things, so many different disasters. People will perish without Christ period. We must preach Christ, his death and resurrection for us. We must preach it with a passion before it is eternally to late. The man who has never felt threatened by a hurricane must repent and believe in Christ before it is too late.

We love Him because He first loved us. We must see that Christ was crucified for us. We must see that it is the goodness of God displayed in Christ Jesus dying for our sins that reconciles us to God. We must see that we are save from wrath through him, and that we are to live by His life.

Also, this will be my last post on this thread.

Love in Christ,
Blessings...rbanks

D
docs

Guilt and condemnation toward the true church and true believers is not from God. Many castigating the church today have a axe to grind against the church in the first place and now they have found a convenient way and time to grind that axe.

A true call of conviction from the Holy Spirit motivates to true repentance and godliness and doesn't come with carnal bucketfulls of guilt and condemnation.

G
Gloryandgrace

The specifics of this prophecy are simply errant biblically.

God's people must and do repent, but to say God's people the Church is in danger of perishing everlastingly is a false testimony of the New Covenant Jesus has made with us.
The wicked and unrepentant man are called to repent for they will perish as Luke 13 tells us; but those who have repented and given their lives to Jesus are safe in his care. Their repentance is for their sanctification not because they are in the same danger of perishing as the lost.
Good scripture students know God does warn his people and in some cases in terrifying terms, but those terrible threats do not undo the grace of God given to them, for those who are born of God remain so because they are the good tree, the fruitful vine, the lover of men, the obedient of God. Despite their failures and sin and inward corruptions God's grace brings sanctification without the continual threat of damnation.

Since this word carries no distinction between the righteous who do repent and the unrighteous who are in need of their first repentance words like this say too much and say too little. In short, if this is a prophetic word to us at SI ( or at least including us) then It should be judged false on the basis it condemns what
God has justified and assumes God's promise to his Children are nullified.
If It would have been confined to the ungodly then the Luke text and its explanation would fit, or if the people from SI were identified as those (who worship another god and Jesus too) it could fit, but since this word came to us without such clarifications the call to repentance in the face of perishing is false and should be regarded as Not From God.

I warned in previous postings that such words are submitted to the hearers, those who are born of God are to check the scriptures first, submit themselves to the Lord and discern whether such a one speaks from God or from himself. It is this very act of submission to God, discerning and presenting prophetic words like this back to God that denote a true and right repentance has occurred and those who do so were in no danger of perishing eternally. Because of this act of faith to examine the word and weigh it against scripture the broad-brush used to inveigh a condemnation against the true believers here in SI must be false.
With little explanation, those who know the Lord Jesus know his promises to be Yea and Amen ever since they knew the grace of God in truth.

There are false Christians, we all know this, but this prophetic word says too little, it has no identifying markers to pinpoint its audience and bring to bear the convicting power of the text to those who any Christian could rightfully discern as lost and in need of such a warning.

From this, I would admonish Brother Blaine to carefully reconsider giving words like this. I would counsel him to be careful to hear what God has to say, for God is not confused about who belong to Him, nor attempting to confuse his people about their need to repent and follow him.

M
MrBillPro

Brother David, you're exactly right!

S
sermonindex

Let me first of all state that I do not believe that there are any prophets here on SI. So the following excerpts from Ravenhill as to what a prophet is and looks like does not apply to any of us. But I do contend that many, if not the majority on SI and in Christendom in general would totally reject the prophetic. Here is just a partial list of what the prophet is and what he looks like from Ravenhill.

He is unquestionably controversial and unpardonably hostile (he would be certainly be castigated for that here on SI)

He marches to another drummer

He is a "seer," who comes to lead the blind.

(people never see their blindness and hate the very notion that their is a possibility that they are indeed blind to the workings of God)

He shares some of the foreknowledge of God and so is aware of impending judgement (This would always be rejected by almost all on SI and in Christendom)

He lives in splendid isolation (he would be castigated for this)

He is forthright and outright and claims no birthright ( oh boy, you can hear the criticism now that he is unloving)

He brings torment but his voice is never void ( what!he isn't loving all the time!)

His message is, repent and be reconciled to God ...or else ( people will hate the or else part)

He is the villain of today and the hero of tomorrow

He is excommunicated while alive and exalted when dead

He is friendless while living and famous when dead

He is against the establishment in ministry ( oh boy, you can hear the howls now)

He announces, pronounces and denounces

He has a heart like a volcano and his words are like fire

He is naturally sensitive but supernaturally spiritual

He is ordained by God but disdained by men.

So, there is just some of Ravenhill's thoughts about what a prophet is and how he is treated. Now, an interesting exercise for those on SI would be to go through this list and see how you would react to someone who had the chracteristics of the prophet. Would you accept it or would you be part of the crowd and tear him to pieces?........bro Frank

S
sermonindex

.
Peter writes...

”¢”¢”¢ For it is time for JUDGMENT  to begin with the HOUSEHOLD OF GOD and if it begins with US first, what will be the outcome for THOSE who do NOT OBEY the gospel of God? ”¢”¢”¢ 1 Peter 4:17 ( Caps for emohasis only )

Hebrews tells us...

ӢӢӢ For we know Him who said, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY." And again, "THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE." ӢӢӢ Hebrews 10:30

John the Revelator tells us...

”¢”¢”¢ He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will NOT ERASE HIS NAME from the BOOK OF LIFE and I will CONFESS  HIS NAME before MY FATHER and before HIS ANGELS.”¢”¢”¢ Revelation 3:5 (Caps for emphasis only)

Jesus teaches...

ӢӢӢ Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are MANY who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are FEW who find it.ӢӢӢ Mathew 7:13-14 (Caps for emohasis only)

Bottom line is we in the American church are going to be judged.  If we do not judge ourselves under the direction of the Holy Spirit then God will judge us by His acts.  If we do not listen to what God is saying through his acts of judgement. That is listen and repent for sins. That is listen and turn to the Lord Jesus Christ. Then our names will be blotted out from The Book of Life.

The terrible doctrine of the remnant is that only a few will listen and enter through the narrow way which is the cross. The question is are we the few who are listening?

Bro Blaine 


S
sermonindex

Saints,

I believe this thread has run its course. The forums main purpose is encouragement, learning and humbly growing in godliness together with others in the body of Christ. Believers are free to share their concerns or ideas but let us not use the forums for a personal platform for our own ministry, whether prophetic or not.

What is more important I believe to the Lord is that we in the body of Christ treat each other rightly and seek peace.

I wrote this short devotional recently with this in mind:

---

Disagreements in Christian Life
If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. - Galatians 5:15

It is unbelievable at times to see how even believers can disagree. One side sticks their feet in and the other side does also. No one is budging or willing to say they are wrong, both are right! Or so they think. Disagreements also happen in marriages, Churches and ministries.

The world is helplessly divided as people have strong opinions on so many different topics and choices in life. These strong beliefs people have even come to the place where hurtful actions are taken against each other because of our desires to be right and have our own way (James 4:1).

Many people are divided and hurt over differences in the body of Christ also as the Apostle James wrote to believers who were "warring" against each other. All these differences result in hurt lives, divided believers and the world looking on in shock and amazement at this scene. When we can claim to believe in the greatest news in the world that men can be freed from their sins and point to this life-giving Saviour but in the same breath speak evil of our other brethren that have been redeemed we bring a reproach to the world.

The beautiful opposite of disagreements is agreement and unity. Our Lord says: That all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. (John 17:21). St. Clement of Rome in AD 90 said, ""Love admits no schisms: love gives rise to no seditions: love does all things in harmony.”

Christ is not divided neither is his body should be divided. When we humble ourselves and pick up our crosses we choose the low way below disagreements. It takes 2 brothers to argue and debate, but a humble brother will not answer back. Choose today to be an agent of peace and humility, this is pleasing to the Lord and allows His body to be beautiful to Him and the on looking world.

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