A Flat Earth Testimony

Caleb- in your model are the stars embedded in the "firmament" and therefore essentially all the same distance away? And what is outside the dome?

https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/earth/flat-earth-prediction-falls-flat/

If I stand on a mesa or the edge of a bluff, I can see what lies beyond where the ground no longer is. If the earth is flat, ships would sail off it, planes would fly over the edge so that nothing would be under them AND you could see the end of the planet -- literally -- where space begins. People would book trips to the end of the earth because it would be all the rage--thrill seekers for the ultimate bungee jump.

The whole idea is just --- well. Mmm.

Caleb: As one who is trained in Physics and Mathematics and who is also an ardent believer, I would make a few comments.

First, I DO believe that the Earth is at the center of the universe. God desired to know us and fellowship with us so much that He created this planet for us to live on and then He created the Sun, Moon, and stars. The heavens declare the glory of God.

However, I do not believe that the earth is flat nor do I believe that everything orbits around the earth. Here are a few things we might ask consider if we have not already.

1. Satellites regularly orbit the earth. Some orbits are geostationary, and some wrap around both poles, mapping "stripes" of the globe with each passage. You can regularly see these satellites moving on a north and south plane early in the night. The laws of mathematics and physics that make orbit possible are well established and rely totally on the planet being a sphere. If the earth were flat, making satellites "stick" up there would be impossible. They must move around a spherical object with such speed that their freefall rate is offset by their speed so that they fall around the earth rather than falling into it. For geostationary satellites, this can only happen at a very precise altitude above the center of the earth.

2. We regularly video and photograph the earth from space. The curvature of the earth and its spherical nature are unmistakeable.

3. We experience eclipses. The very fact that this happens is reliant upon spherical bodies that all orbit the sun. The shadows themselves show the spherical nature of the moon and of the earth as these shadows are circular.

4. Eratosthenes in about 300 BC used shadow angles from the sun to calculate to within 1% of the modern, accepted value the radius and circumference of the earth. His observations were totally predicate upon a spherical earth. His observations are not even possible on a flat earth.

5. The arctic circle, the tropics, and the antarctic circle and the position of the sun at these locations during different times of the year are only possible on a spherical earth.

6. Pilots of long distance flights do not fly direct map paths to their destinations. They fly what are called great circle routes. On a flat map, these routes appear to be great arcs and make absolutely no sense since the shortest distance between two points on a flat map is a straight line. But the shortest distance between two points on a sphere is an arc, or a great circle route.

These are just a few of the things that came to mind immediately. I realize that the shape of the earth is not a heaven or hell issue. We could just as easily believe it to be a cube or a sausage for that matter. I know that there are a lost of websites now that advocate for a flat earth. But, unfortunately, I think they are really bad science.

Good grief, Caleb. What a useless distraction from Christ in this day and age! Praying that you will move on to maturity.
L

It's OK Caleb. I tend to see the earth as flat myself.

Job 38:4 Earth is rolled out like clay under a signet ring.

Rev 20:7-9 The four corners of the earth.. and also they marched across the breadth of the earth.

I don't pay attention to Science as a whole because it can be used as a two edged sword. Unless I experience it I tend to take a wait and see attitude. In Genesis God divided the water with a firmament. Sun and moon in the firmament as well as the birds. Maybe we should remove Genesis and Job.

Then we must ask why do we need drones if satellites can see everything, yet failed to see where all the missing planes went down in the ocean.

I really don't like to talk about the subject on this board Caleb. I try not to let these things be the main focus in my life. Focus on the things of deception instead because Satan is really into deception. He will have his kiss (Judas), he will have his two witnesses..perhaps he even has a fake son, the coming fake messiah. These are things I look at today.

I don't think the apostles would ever "dream" of bringing this topic up.

"For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus’ sake.” 2 Corinthians 4:5

The sad truth is... this "wisdom" is presented from the pulpits.

I knew a young man once who at the age of eight decided that he was not sure that God was real. When my wife asked him why he replied that what he learned at church about creation and what he learned at school did not agree and that what he learned at school sounded more credible than what he heard at church. I once taught on creation and evolution at or church and the result was two young people being wonderfully saved.

I guess I am trying to say that discussions about science are not always unfruitful. Early scientists believed it was a way of thinking gods thoughts after him. Who knows.

The topic of creation IS in Scripture...
"flat earth"... not so much...

TMK, that AIG article exemplifies what we want science to do and be. It uses methods that are observational, experimental, testable, repeatable and quantifiable by known mathematical laws.

Not jumping on flat earth theory here, just saying that when Christians want good science, this is the kind of thing we should applaud, wherever it leads.

In many ways,I see todays believers only have one doctrine; the rapture. How can I get out of here... Most don't really believe anything else.

Bill Nye the science guy said we should give up religion. And in many ways science can be the enemy of God. We all trust in what science can do first, then ask God. Science explains how the Red sea parted and why it turned red. That's the whole problem. I have nothing against science but I know that deep inside there is a move to dethrone the one who should be sitting in your temple.

There are questions NASA hasn't answered; like why doesn't the vacuum of space suck the atmosphere off the earth. I know it's not gravity because vacuum's work on earth. And then there is the question of heat. What kind of heat do they use in that International Space Station. It's terribly cold that far up and at the speed they are moving it becomes that much harder to maintain. They are all running around in tee shirts. And then there is the question of their earth photos released every year. I see an owl in the clouds every year. I have often wondered why. Plus cut and paste can easily be seen in the clouds. I won't write anymore on this topic.

Joel Richardson discusses this issue on his video blog.
To check it out go to the 'Joels Trumpet' website and the 'Underground' section and scroll down to episode 72.

Thank you Caleb for your original post. I may not agree, but I can appreciate your courage to say something different than the masses. Your post was obviously thought out and bathed in humility. I don't say this to increase your ego, but to bring attention to what some have missed and immediately have tried to belittle you and make themselves look spiritually more mature than you. Are we to honestly believe that some ONLY think, say, write about saving souls and have no other thoughts? If so, I am honestly impressed and thank God for your dedication. I am always, always amazed how the very people that would consider themselves a thinker are so quick to belittle someone that is trying to think and investigate on their own...truly mind boggling. Some of the rebuttals truly make me sad at what the body looks like.....when someone says something different than your belief are YOU reflecting life or the law with your words? I will always be celebrate someone that is trying to flesh out their beliefs that tells me they are not content being a sheep living in the grammar stage of their convictions. Hallelujah!

Does it matter if the earth is flat or round? This topic seems a bit silly to me.

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"Does it matter if the earth is flat or round? This topic seems a bit silly to me."

Matthew do you like it when someone tells you that your own thoughts are a "bit silly?" It may not matter to you. Words of life or law?

My apologies this is the first time I have ever heard of anyone in this century that believes the earth is flat. It is a bizarre notion to me.

Greg, may I ask you to lock this thread?

Some hungry souls come here for spiritual food and get confused when they see what we are discussing here.

Sister Tina,

I share the sentiments of your observations on both sides.... firstly on Caleb and secondly on some of the responses.

Last night I laid awake and pondered why saints respond in such a way, and it occurred to me that they can't help it.... not to make an excuse for this behavior, tho we are all slaves to our perspective and like you say that will be reflected in our actions/words as either life or law.
Again this is not to provide an "out" for anyone or preclude a rebuke, it simply comes down to wether what we say/do is being actively done/said in faith towards God,.... if not it's sin, plain n simple.

Brother Caleb, don't mean to derail your thread-
Personally I'm still researching this and it indeed does get more interesting.
But I've found most people have their minds fixed on one side or the other and are all too easily convinced of what they want to be true,... perhaps a type of cognitive dissonance?

"all the way up to 30,000 plus feet! I believe this can only happen on a flat plane. Yet based on the reported size of our globe, we should be able to see a curve at much shorter distances (such as when ships disappear over the horizon due to the curve, right?). For those who might say "you just have not gotten high enough to see the curve", I ask "how high do you have to go?"

According to science 35,000 feet and conditions have to be just right i.e. cloudless day. There are pictures of the Earth from much further away and the curve is clearly seen.

I apologize Matthew if my type written words sounded rude to you. I do not want to be guilty of the very thing I wrote. Blessings to you, may you live in the Fathers love today!

Science can't prove the Globe, but science will prove to you that the earth is flat. :-(

If you love science and truth you will know that the earth is flat. Flat earthers are clearly from the northern hemisphere and have never spent any time in Antarctica in December when the sun doesn't sink below the horizon because this would show their model of the sun's movements to be at best unworkable.

Tina-

I appreciate your sentiment but christians lose any credibility they may have if we are viewed as persons who believe the earth is exactly like a snow globe.

There is evidence beyond evidence that disproves this notion.

The only way flat earthers get around this is to say that the evidence is faked as part of a grand conspiracy to disprove flat earthism.

If the earth was truly flat why would there be a conspiracy to prove that it is a sphere?

Someone asked how the space station is heated- it took me two seconds to google this and find out that all it's systems are powered by its solar panels.

I don't believe this idea is an irrelevance that we can just take or leave. I believe this idea of a flat earth is a deception from the enemy to discredit Christians and thereby the gospel. Some sincere and good folk have been deceived into taking on board this nonsense, but the world will use this to discredit any Christian who upholds to biblical righteousness as being a 'flat earth' ignoramus!

It is just another deception, that seems to have originated within the Christiananity of the USA. Already Americans are known for the lack of knowledge outside of anything USA, but this really takes the biscuit as being insular and lacking knowledge of the world we live in.

I don't mean to be rude, but this is the reality.

I just want to put visiting the Dam that's holding the sea from falling off the earth on my bucket list.

Well put, Dave.
They will think that Christians, who believe in creation also believe in a flat earth. Since flat earth is nonsense, creation must also be nonsense.

There is nothing wrong with giving credit to scientific facts as long as they do not negate biblical truth. The earth is a sphere and rotates around the sun, man landed on the moon, full stop. We are no longer in the 16th century.

I am appalled by this lack of sense here. There is nothing to discuss or to defend. Please stop this shameful nonsense, stop bringing this forum into disrepute with these post.

Paul urged Timothy not to entertain these sort of teachings at length in 1.Tim 6.

Brothers and sisters,

If we are truly honest, none of us actually knows with certainty one way or the other. The fact is our belief is an act of faith based on the testimony of others we don't know nor have ever met...

History bares out that the established church balked at the idea that we weren't the center of the universe and that the earth was spherical just as today's mainstream church will at the proposition of it being flat and in the center of the universe. The point being is that we would do well to not speak before we know, except to inquire. For in doing so we are placing our faith in men whom either wear tin foil hats or on the other side can "prove" we came from apes or star dust... and Caleb is simply giving his statement of faith (which is far more agreeable with scripture) and if we don't share the same conviction then it would be far easier to inquire of him why he holds to this or even prayerfully take it up with the Lord. But I can find no scriptures that license us to mistreat another brother or sister.
Two more quick points;
If persecution broke out and the only Christians around were a group that sincerely believed the earth was flat, would that matter to you if they needed help or were the only ones who could provide it for you?

And I disagree that our belief in the shape of the earth in any way is a measure of our credibility as a Christian,... that is exclusively based on wether we love our brothers and our testimony of Christ in us-
It's important to note that as far as we know, all the apostles believed it to be flat as that was the prevailing understanding of the time and was never "corrected" in or by scriptures and if anything was reinforced by them...

The Earth is not "flat." It's a GLOBE. Most of the world's communication capabilities work on GLOBAL relay systems. Intercontinental telephone calls can be made as a result of satellites relaying to other satellites at various positions around the globe.

There are real-time webcams that show the world spinning (via rotation) on its axis. If you watch them long enough, you'll see the entire planet rotate several times.

If you still don't believe me, take a boat and sail east. Eventually, you'll arrive in the west. If you fly in a plane to the west, you'll eventually arrive to the west.

There is no magic here. There is no grand conspiracy. The Earth is simply a globe -- a sphere. The moon is a globe too. The Sun is a globe. Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto are globes too.

High school students routinely attach GoPro cameras to high altitude balloons (without the "fishbowl" setting) and record the curvature of the planet's horizon (in spherical position as it turns).

There is nothing really to argue about and debate here. Unfortunately, the world will look at this and mock such notions as foolishness. There is a difference between being a "fool for Christ" and simply being given to folly.

*EDIT - I would add that I agree that we can be a distraction or obstacle to the world through such theories (and not because of the Cross but because of intrinsic folly). Christ is our pursuit and not worldly ponderings.

"O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called."
- I Timothy 6:20