Selling out to the Catholic Church

It breaks my heart to think that a lot of Christians just think Catholics are another denomination
When the celebration of the reformation is just about to come up.
How many lost Catholics have gone to hell because of the compromise of the Protestant church

You probably won't like my thoughts, but.

I don't trust the Protestant for any Catholics. I do trust God, He will see to it that the Catholics that are supposed to be given to Christ will be in His Body the Church.

If I mess up and don't speak to a Catholic about their lost soul, God will see to it that someone who loves Him enough and hears His voice will speak to that Catholic about His Son and their trust that is supposed to be in Him.,

That old Hymn "Trust and obey" comes to mind. "There is no other way"

The word pistis in Greek is usually faith or believe, but it also is very strong when it comes to TRUST.

In Christ: My Trust is in Him, I mess up a lot in this department. I believe, help my unbelief. I trust, but not always-HELP!!!!: Phillip

by appolus on 2017/9/21 6:55:52

The delusion is almost complete in America, Dominic ...........bro Frank

I have had Catholics that married into my family at times and they were very hard to talk to about Jesus, just in general conversation. They wouldn't listen to anything except what came from their priests mouth. But there was one who listened and loved to be prayed for in the Spirit but she never left the Catholic church.

Let me share that I believe whatever a child of God is sold out to that is not Jesus Christ, THAT can be or is their delusion. The Republican Party / the Democrat Party just to name non-Christian organizations.

God bless,
Lisa

The Catholic Church is in error on it's teachings concerning salvation, nevertheless there are many born again Christians that are still in the Catholic Church. The Charismatic Movement within the Church placed great emphasis on a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and having a knowledge of the Word of God.

There is also much error among non Catholics even in those denominations that have the right doctrine concerning salvation. Many within these churches believe that coming to the front of a church for an altar call, repeating a salvation prayer led by a pastor assures one that they are truly saved.

It is only through the work of the Holy Spirit that a Catholic or non Catholic can be saved. No man can come to Jesus unless the Father has drawn them. A person that is truly saved will repent of their sins and bring forth the fruit of being saved.

I am addressing this question to Frank and the brothers and sisters that know that Catholics are not taught in the true way of salvation, and unless they have a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, they are lost.

So my question is this: What is your method of witnessing to these lost Catholics?

It is on the bases that Frank has described that I believe the RCC fits the bill for most end times prophecies be it the whore church or the beast or "doctrine if demons" etc etc.

The Puritans believed it, commentators like Matthew Henry and Gill believed it and there is no good basis to say they are mistaken

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Do Catholics go to heaven? If their faith is genuine then yes they do despite their wrong beliefs. Paul worked in and among people far more entrenched in paganism then the catholics. I find a protestant to be judging a catholic partly humerous considering the complete mess and chaos of modern evangelical denominations/non-denominations. We should not be so quick to assume our beliefs our right and theirs our wrong considering we are not much better off.

I would like to add that if we judge them as "unsaved" because they are catholic we are mimicing their notiom of salvation through the church that we ourselves criticize.

They have the seed of life in them through their belief in Christ, lets focus on bringing out that life and the truth will follow.

Just to be clear I am not judging catholic persons but rather the institutional RCC. Sadly most Catholics do not know any better. My wife grew up in a catholic home and she came out of the RCC. I do not doubt that many Catholics love Jesus but this is dangerously tainted by the evils of the RCC.

From Martyr:

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Do Catholics go to heaven? If their faith is genuine then yes they do despite their wrong beliefs.

Can someone be saved by believing another gospel?

The scriptures state that belief in Jesus as Lord and in His resurrection you will be saved.

We are saved by faith in the living Christ, not by our knowledge. Do you think you are fully correct and complete in your knowledge of the gospel? And if so do you think it is this knowledge and understanding that saves you?

When a person believes on Christ, the life of Christ enters into them and they are saved. Every vessel is different. Some believe unto a deeper understanding, some have hearts so full of sin they only have a little bit of their heart left to give unto belief in Christ. Both are saved by their faith. One has less work to be done, in Christ, than the other regarding "santification" and coming to a complete knowledge but both are saved.

Time has revealed that i knew very little of the gospel when i was saved even though at the time i thought i knew it. Profession and heed to modern evangelical interpretations is not how one is saved. Christ is life to all those who put their faith in Him.

Sorry but we protestants are not the right ones. Christ is.

Jesus says, "If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine..." (John 7:17)

One way to look at this verse is that the longer you walk with God, the more apparent it would be as to which doctrines are true and which aren't.

On the flip side, those who remain ignorant or resist important doctrines is because they simply do not want to do God's will.

Martyr,

I agree that we are saved not by knowledge or doctrine, but through Jesus Christ. This means that salvation has to be ALL of Jesus Christ - trusting all in Him, and not in our works or anything else.

To trust Christ is to trust the true gospel. If you trust is elsewhere, you are simply not trusting in Christ. You cannot simultaneously believe Christ and another gospel.

To claim that one can believe in another gospel and be saved is dangerous. Only the true gospel is the power of God unto salvation, all the other fake variants will lead to damnation. Paul fought tooth and nail to preserve the integrity of the gospel - c.f. Galatians. We must do likewise, otherwise we would be nullifying both the power and the grace of God.

Brother why did you not quote the full verse?

Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.

So if you look at the whole verse and the context a more accurate interpretation would be anyone who chooses to do the will of God (and this is the will of God, to believe in the one he sent) will come to know the validity of Christs teachings (doctrine=teaching) and that they are from God.

So looking at the full verse it does not prove your point. Catholics both affirm Christ and that His words are true. However, i am in agreement that these things are not interpreted properly by them in many cases. This does not mean they are not saved, only that they will be saved by fire (by the skin of their teeth, as it were). Theyre adherence to false catholic beliefs hinders them from being complete in Christ but it does not mean they are not saved.

As to believing in the gospel the word gospel means good news. It is the good news that Christ, the only begotten of God, came into this world, died for our sins and was resurrected. Do not catholics believe this?

The issue is whether Jesus plus anything else is still the gospel.

If I believe that Jesus died for my sins and was resurrected, but was the brother of Michael the archangel am I saved?

Martyr,

The full John 7:17 verse you quoted asserts the same implication - if a person does not eventually arrive at the gospel of grace, then it shows that he does not want to do the will of God.

If you believe that a person can believe in a false gospel and still be saved, I cannot agree with you.

Paul extensively addresses this in Galatians - he calls this "fallen from grace". We must allow Scripture to shape our views, rather than our own preconceptions of who is "saved" or "unsaved".

Catholics have a different gospel , a different way of salvation they do not believe in sola scriptura and they place the doctrines of the church above scriptures

I have the catholic cataclysms on my iPad and computer and want to show you directly this is what as a Christian we believe and this is where it goes directly against scripture

To think about the many Martyrs that gave there lives for the scriptures so we could read them and read things like Tyndale up to spurgeon and others decrying the abomination of the Catholic Church even someone like tozer

Are all those that died in the reformation in vain, we have forgotten and it is has cost us dearly , Martin Luther nailing the 99 thesis to the wall.

There is either two paths we can either accept the ecumenical movement and interfaith movements and go down the path to a one world religion or we can follow Christ , which will it be , your choice

I agree with Frank regarding the serious, damnable errors of the RCC. That said, I do believe that some Catholics (much fewer than within Protestant Evangelicalism) are born again. I believe the main issue is who and/or what are they trusting in for salvation and with whom or what do they have a relationship? Are they trusting in their works, in their church, in the pope, in their bishops or priests? Do they have a supposed relationship with the false Mary or the false saints (idols/demons) to whom they pray (instead of praying to the Father through Christ as we're instructed in the Bible)? Or are they trusting in Christ alone and do they have a living relationship with Him?

That said, I would definitely exhort all Catholics to leave the RCC due to its serious, damnable doctrinal errors officially taught by their leaders.

"Wilkerson was best remembered for his book The Cross and the Switchblade and for founding Teen Challenge, which now has centers around the world (including one a few miles from our office). Dr. Wood says there are currently 24,000 men and women with life-altering addictions being helped on any given day. In the late 1980s, Wilkerson founded Times Square Church, which has had a great impact in New York City.

What hasn’t been highlighted as often””until now””are the ways Wilkerson’s life influenced others in ways he probably never knew. For example, the young Roman Catholics at Duquesne who received the baptism in the Holy Spirit, which sparked the Catholic charismatic renewal, had read The Cross and the Switchblade, as well as They Speak With Other Tongues by John Sherrill. Along with his wife Elizabeth, Sherrill co-authored Wilkerson’s book.

There is a chapter in The Cross and the Switchblade in which Wilkerson tells a Catholic priest that the former drug addicts who received the baptism in the Holy Spirit had more power to live for God. In the book he described what the Bible says in Acts about the Holy Spirit. My longtime friend Bert Ghezzi, who was among the first leaders in the Catholic charismatic movement, told me that reading those books certainly made the students (which included him) more open to the Spirit in those fateful days in early 1967. That movement today is said to now include 120 million around the world." From Charisma Magazine

I formerly was very anti-catholic, but now I believe there are some of God's children in the catholic church. Please don't misunderstand me, I don't agree with catholic doctrinal errors (much as I don't agree with Protestant doctrinal errors).

I think its important to understand two facts when we address Roman Catholics. 1. Doctrinally they are in error, so those of you who maintain a firm stance on salvation by grace through faith, through Christ alone have taken a good first step. 2. The condition of the person is important to know, some with little to no knowledge of scripture can truly be born of God and I've met them and ministered to them. Some with a great deal of RCC indoctrination can talk up a storm about the bible and Jesus yet they are not born of God and resist the idea that salvation by grace through faith through Christ alone is going to save them.
Two errors that we who are born of God should avoid.
1. Making a doctrinal statement concerning their salvation is as good as knowing them personally, therefore accepting them or anathematizing them are equally valid. This is false. 2. Judging them based upon their demeanor, kindness, gentleness and concluding they must be born of God is false.
Distinction in Ministry.
Many in the RCC are equally biased in favor of their Church and beliefs as we are in Protestant doctrine and tradition. When the Catholic anathematizes us because we refuse allegiance to papal decree or authority we need to recognize what they are doing. Namely its just an easy categorizing of people with dissimilar beliefs so that the real work of Jesus can be avoided. What work is that? Investing in them...that is the work. In order to demonstrate our doctrines are part of what it means to be the body through which the Living Lord Jesus reveals himself we must in the same attitude as Jesus lay down our lives for them. In order for them to understand new testament doctrine as a protestant speaks, it must be lived out in front of them. Yet, we very conscientiously speak of Christ living through us, and not as the RCC speak of Christ rewarding us for our good deeds. They need to know our love and care for them are not good deeds done in order to earn or acquire a salvation to come. We rather are living out our salvation and their differences in doctrine and practice will be made more evident to them by linking what we say with why we do what we do.
It's right to draw the line and refuse compromise with RCC doctrine yet, its right to love and show compassion on them, living out the doctrines we know and speak boldly those doctrines make all the difference in what motivates us. God's love toward me and God's love coming from me are what it means to be saved, they cannot earn what I am able to do and I cannot earn the life I am freely living in front of them.
Mean ole protestants kicking everyone out because they do not hold the same understanding of the bible is a false and corrupted view. This is what Satan wants to portray us as being. Compromising protestants relaxing every doctrine for the sake of a pretended unity and peace only makes both protestant and catholic deniers of the true faith.
Love and truth work together in the Spirit led mans life. Love and compassion, love and agreeableness, love and consideration, love and respect will give you an audience with the catholic. If it does not, move on and witness to someone else.
Any new believer can find some bible truth tangential to RCC teachings and go on a rant...I know I have many a time. Yet, it pretty much accomplishes nothing. What does accomplish something is the investment we make into peoples lives who can see what we live and what we believe point to a Lord and Savior Jesus Christ...and how approachable, lovable, receptive, caring, forgiving and merciful he is.
We have good news for them, we have Jesus to offer, let us not bury it in anathemas or blind acceptance whereby the gospel is never expressed in love and deed.

I am fully aware of what the Catholic Church teaches. I attended a Catholic school through the 6th grade, and was still a practicing Catholic, though not a very good one, until I got saved.

What concerns me is that it is much easier to witness to those Catholics that were not strong in their faith than to witness to what I would call a devout Catholic.

It is much better to share the love of Jesus with strong Catholics, and then as the Lord leads to share the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ with them. If we attack the Catholic faith, you have lost them, they will never be open to anything else that you have to say.

The main object ought to be to share Jesus with them as the Lord leads. They need to be saved so that the light of God will shine upon the false doctrine that is taught in the Catholic church. A born again Catholic that reads the Word of God has a much better chance of seeing the light concerning the Catholic church and actually leaving the church.

Many on these forums are very critical of the Charismatic movement, and I can fully understand why. But what they don't understand is that back in the late 60's and 70's there was a tremendous move of the Holy Spirit in most all the denominations, and many Catholics were saved and baptized in the Holy Spirit. Priests were being saved and sharing the gospel and the necessity of having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. The Lord used a Catholic Priest that would teach the truth of Jesus Christ in a Charismatic prayer meeting, which resulted in my salvation. There were a good many priests and a lot of Spirit filled Catholics that were getting into the Word of God and ended up leaving the Catholic church, and I was one of them. There were also many saved, Spirit filled believers that stayed in the Catholic church in an attempt to help others come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. I believe that their intentions were noble, but in many cases while not abandoning their love for Jesus, they fell back into many of the old Catholic traditions.

Back in the early 80's a big Charismatic conference was held in Anaheim Ca. I went outside to talk with the Charismatic Catholics that were there. I spoke with Several of them for a considerable time, others I asked directly about being born of God. I came away very disappointed in what I heard. From those I spoke with, some told me they didn't believe or know what being born again was. Others told me they were born again every time they took the Eucharist, others were ambiguous about their understanding of salvation by grace.
For me, at that time, with those people, I came away with a very low opinion of the Charismatic Catholics because they were still being introduced to a salvation and Christianity that did not have Christ as the only means of obtaining a salvation, they were still being taught to add their church attendance, their taking of the mass and their adherence to rule as part of what it means to obtain salvation from Jesus. For them, Jesus had em workin for it.

They boasted of great things in the conference and a wonderful worship time, but I couldn't get past the inability of any of them I met to offer back to me a biblical reason for claiming they were saved.

Mike-

I do agree that attacking the tenets of RCC is not the way to win over Catholics. That must come later and exceedingly gently. If you come out with guns blazing you will get nowhere, at least not in my experience.

The number one identifying factor was that they supposedly spoke in tongues. It turns out that the vast majority were "taught," how to speak in tongues. They were to take some vowels and repeat them rapidly and do it with "faith." Kinda fake it till you make it."

Frank, this might have happened in Scotland, but the vast majority of Catholics that were being saved during this great outpouring of the Spirit in the late 60's and early 70's had a true baptism of the Holy Spirit.

There are Catholics that are in the Catholic church that are saved, not because they believe on what the Catholic church teaches about salvation, but because they believe in their hearts that God raised Jesus Christ from the dead, and confess Him with their mouths. The Catholic church does confess the Apostles Creed at every mass.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (Romans 10:9,10)

Hi Frank: My purpose in any discussion that effects how others believe and how the gospel I know has been subverted I aim straight at how I am going to approach them. Speaking in the abstract about doctrinal differences in this group is preaching to the choir, it would be hard to find a dissenter on this subject. You see I am already sold on the idea a corruption of the gospel was delivered to these Charismatic Catholics...at least the ones I met, so for me the necessity is how I should deliver the true gospel to them. I consider sharing that as the required biblical component when noting falsehood has been preached.

yuehan,

The verse simply does not say that. Jesus is talking to the Jews. They don't believe Him to be speaking the Truth. He says anyone who chooses to do the will of God will come to know that Jesus is speaking Truth, even the very words of God. I'm afraid your interpretation is neither stated nor implied anywhere in the verse or context.

I think you should take your own advice and stop reading the scriptures through a pre-formed lens and see them openly, outside of your own thoughts or the things you have been taught as true. It is not an easy thing to do.

To the forum at large. The criticism of the catholic church from what I have seen is they do not believe in sola scriptura, they worship mary and they only do what the priest tells them to. (I'm sure there are others but this is what I have seen)

My question is, any of these necessary for salvation? Where does it say you can't be saved if you don't believe in sola scriptura? Do they worship Mary? We know from Joshua 24:2 that the patriarchs worshipped idols too! They follow the priest? How many times did Paul exhort the church members he was addressing to mimic him and to believe his words (he even called it HIS gospel!)

This is going to be sidestepped but I'll say it anyways. We are not defending Christ we are defending the beliefs and traditions we have regarding Christ. Christ is Life! And He has made this life available to all through FAITH in His son.

The doctrines and teachings of the catholic church are in many ways wrong. But we are not saved by doctrines and teachings. If you believe Jesus is the son of God, died for our sins and rose again then you are saved. (Obviously I am talking about truly believing, faith means to be convinced of something)
Who among us had a full comprehension of the gospel upon salvation? Who among us knows everything thats true and rejects everything that's false? I still don't! But because I have had an open heart God has led me into more and more revelation of what that means. I say "revelation" you understand not that I know more about it but I SEE more of it, in my spirit and, praise God, sometimes in my mind.

A recurring statement that has come up is if a catholic truly believes the gospel they will not stay in the catholic church. This is wrong. You grow as you allow God to grow you. You can choose to hold on to things you've been taught and see God through it thus inhibiting the growth God had in store for you, as many of the people on this forum do. It's the same thing. Yet I would not say the people on this forum are unsaved because they believe in things I consider flat out wrong. It is by faith we are saved. God knows the heart. I will not judge that but I WILL love and do what I can to take that spark of faith in Christ (however small) and bring it out more and more unto the fulness of knowledge.

It's not ecumenism, I do not compromise the truth but I do realize the truth does not come from believing in correct doctrine but by walking deeper and deeper into truth. We learned our doctrine by words, great is the man who learned it by revelation. And for the record that man will have very different beliefs then the ones on this forum.

Brother Tyler: I am not going to sidestep you, I believe you bring out an excellent point. In my travels as an Evangelist to Catholic countries ( Philippines and Mexico) there are many Catholics just waiting to hear the gospel, if you were to give them a series of denunciations and anathemas concerning their doctrines you would find yourself preaching to the trees. But, if you approach them on common ground Jesus Christ...I get an audience and I am able to bring the scriptures to the front and offer what I believe to be a more accurate representation of the gospel. Because of that, God has brought many to saving knowledge, healings and to churches preaching sound doctrine.
I find in those countries they have been exposed to terrible teachings, stuff that's just ignorant superstition. So, what is called for? Compassion, care, patience and a willingness to bring truth to bear upon their hearts. The Holy Spirit has done wonderful works in bringing the light of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ...because the face of Jesus Christ was preached.
Yes there were some who resisted our message, but we do not consider them enemies because not everyone gets saved on the first or second entreaty.
I appreciate your candor, doctrinal exactness has it's place and that exactness is demonstrated first, when you have a religion that parallels Christianity via its vernacular, redefining Christianity must be more than long distance rejection of their doctrines. God has given the increase by reason of the Spirit of God giving them revelation too just as we have received and believe me, our genuine Christ-likeness conveys a powerful message that God's Spirit uses in bringing many sons to saving faith.
Well said brother and do well to love them.

The RCC is dangerous because it makes it very difficult for those in it to come to true saving faith. If they do, it is in spite of and not because of RCC ways and means.

Catholics that I have known make fun of "those born agains." They do not even realize that the origin of that term is Jesus himself. When you show them this they are amazed! Of course I am not saying EVERY catholic does not know this but many many do not.

Brother/s, I know of at least two movements prior to the 1500s that were persecuted and many martyred by the RCC (the Waldenses of the 1100s and the Lollards of the 1300s).

I have not read the book The Pilgrim Church by E.H. Broadbent but I understand it seeks to give a history of Christians outside the RCC from the 4th century onward. I think Frank and maybe others have read that book. Maybe they can comment on it if they’re led.

Thanks Frank. I really want to read that book soon now Lord willing. It has many good reviews on Amazon.

Oracio ,

The
THE PILGRIM CHURCH is online : http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks10/1000351h.html

John W. Kennedy : " The Torch of the Testimony" is another book that is about "The 2000 year history of those Christians - and churches- that have stood outside the Protesent - Catholic Tradition.

MARTYRS MIRROR is also online :
http://homecomers.org/mirror/

Thanks Greg and proudpapa. May God lead us to His truth and a right balance in this matter.

RE : /// So we can look at a group like the "Bogomils" which are one of the groups labeled as the "remnant" in the Pilgrim Church book, but a look at their beliefs draws some large question marks.///

The catholic line is filled with bloodshed.

And those whom have sought to piece togather a remnant line have done so by ignoring the lack of continuity amoung the varity of sects that they link togather

Where does that leave us ? :
That Truth is found in the Scriptures and not in traditions.

2181 The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor. [119] Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.

The Catholic Church. The Catechism Of The Catholic Church (Kindle Locations 10436-10439). Unknown. Kindle Edition.

In the Catholic Church you have mortal and venal sin, missing mass is a mortal sin according to the Catholic Church.

A thing that made me so upset is recently a Youtube channel called how to be a christian
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_cZXWB6T4WRXyTZiyH_LDw
This is from a catholic perspective it teaches that tradition is higher than scripture that the pope is the supreme head of the church and praying to the saints

"If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone, so that thus he understands nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is not in any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema.” ”“ Canon 9, Trent’s Decree on Justification

There is a good site called Berean beacon a guy called Richard bennet in which he details Christian Priests who have come out of the Catholic Church

http://bereanbeacon.org/

It is amazing if you read alot of Christian literature you find that we have only sold out to the Catholics recently

Charles Spurgeon had so many Sermons on this, he deals with Priestcraft
http://www.spurgeongems.org/vols19-21/chs1250.pdf

Most of the famous preachers such as Whitfield and others preached against the Catholic Church. William Tyndale

neither know they of any more than that they read at mass, matins, and evensong, which yet they understand not: neither care they, but even to mumble up so much every day, as the pie and popinjay speak, they wot not what, to fill their bellies withal. If they will not let the lay-man have the word of God in his mother tongue, yet let the priests have it; which for a great part of them do understand no Latin at all, but sing, and say, and patter all day, with the lips only, that which the heart understandeth not.

Tyndale, William. The Obedience of a Christian man (Kindle Locations 243-246). Kindle Edition.

This books should be on every Christians reading list

Now while I was gazing upon all these things, I turned my head to look back, and saw Ignorance come up to the river side; but he soon got over, and that without half that difficulty which the other two men met with.[330] For it happened that there was then in that place, one Vain-hope,[331] a ferryman, that with his boat helped him over; so he, as the other I saw, did ascend the hill, to come up to the gate, only he came alone; neither did any man meet him with the least encouragement. When he was come up to the gate, he looked up to the writing that was above, and then began to knock, supposing that entrance should have been quickly administered to him; but he was asked by the men that looked over the top of the gate, Whence came you? and what would you have? He answered, I have eat and drank in the presence of the King, and He has taught in our streets. Then they asked him for his certificate, that they might go in and show it to the King; so he fumbled in his bosom for one, and found none. Then said they, Have you none? But the man answered never a word. So they told the King, but He would not come down to see him, but commanded the two Shining Ones that conducted Christian and Hopeful to the City, to go out and take Ignorance, and bind him hand and foot, and have him away. Then they took him up, and carried him through the air, to the door that I saw in the side of the hill, and put him in there. Then I saw that there was a way to hell, even from the gates of Heaven,

Bunyan, Bunyan. The Works of John Bunyan, complete, including 58 books (Kindle Locations 75731-75741). B&R Samizdat Express. Kindle Edition.

Then I saw that there was a way to hell, even from the gates of Heaven

This quote always stands out to me at the moment my life is a real mess.

Catholism vs Biblical Faith
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLRHkaLG48Q

My conclusion of Church History thus far,

Men have at various times recognized and took off the head covering of priestcraft and hierarchical rule and recognized that there true Head is not to be covered by the conscience of other men.
At which time revival breaks out and they rightly become leaders
but they so often seem to fail to understand Biblical leadership which simply leads and guides other men to there true Head as clearly taught in 1st Cor.
and instead often seems to rebuild the hierarchical rule that sets itself up and covers over the conscience of other men.

My scary thing about church history is that many Christians do not know there bibles so if the antichrist is sat in the third temple or a world religion was set up they would buy into it
If there was a fake return of Jesus as he bible talks that the antichrist will bring fire down from heaven would they follow the antichrist because of miracles. As the whole point of the antichrist is to deceive.

Only knowing the bible and the Jesus of scripture will you be able to conquer the deceptions that will appear.

One thing that I realised is that it does not matter what I think as the bible is a historical book and we are all going to stand before god on judgement day , we may not like doctrines such as hell but it exists.
As Christians we tend to skip over the scriptures that do not adhere to our own morality such as the wrath of god is on the sons of disobedience.
We tend to adhere things we like in scripture not things we do not like.

God is not going to have no personal preference when we stand with him on judgement day , he wrote scripture to be ignorant of it is not an excuse.

I find it crazy when people use the term born again catholic it is almost using the term born again jehovah witness as you cannot adhere to the watchtower society and follow the bible at the same time.

I think the Catholics use the phrase as a form of deception. In Thessalonians in talks about a great deception before the antichrist is revealed.

People were ignorant of Jesus first coming, how about his second coming. I know I am a mess and I need Jesus

proudpapa:
Where does that leave us ? :
That Truth is found in the Scriptures and not in traditions.

From that perspective, our views on church history and denominations are of secondary importance. What really matters is the truth as revealed in the Scriptures.

May God open our eyes to a fuller revelation of Jesus and the Gospel of Grace which He died to give us.

Deltadom.

You say you are a mess and you need Jesus. Are you saved? If yes, how can you be a mess AND saved but Catholics who have faith in the Son of God and are a mess are NOT saved? Are you born again and a mess?? How can they not be so as well?

If you're answer is no, you are not saved or born again, then you have no right to judge the 1.5 billion catholics in this world.

Todd said,

"If I believe that Jesus died for my sins and was resurrected, but was the brother of Michael the archangel am I saved?"

These two men believed, not that Michael the archangel was the brother of Jesus, but that He was Jesus.

Revelation 12:7

Michael and his angels fought against the dragon: by whom is meant not a created angel, with whom his name does not agree, it signifying "who is as God"; nor does it appear that there is anyone created angel that presides over the rest, and has them at his command; though the Jews seem to imagine as if the angels were ranged under several heads and governors, of whom they make Michael to be one;...but it seems best to interpret it of Jesus Christ, who is equal with God, is his fellow, is one with the Father, and in whom the fulness of the Godhead dwells bodily: he is the Archangel, the first of the chief princes, the head of all principality and power, who is on the side of the Lord's people, pleads their cause, defends their persons, and saves them; see Jde 1:9; John Gill

The attempts of the dragon proved unsuccessful against the church, and fatal to his own interests. The seat of this war was in heaven; in the church of Christ, the kingdom of heaven on earth. The parties were Christ, the great Angel of the covenant, and his faithful followers; and Satan and his instruments. The strength of the church is in having the Lord Jesus for the Captain of their salvation. Matthew Henry

Todd also said,

"It is on the bases that Frank has described that I believe the RCC fits the bill for most end times prophecies be it the whore church or the beast or "doctrine if demons" etc etc.

The Puritans believed it, commentators like Matthew Henry and Gill believed it and there is no good basis to say they are mistaken"

So Todd, my question is, is there good basis to say they are mistaken about Michael?

If you're answer is no, you are not saved or born again, then you have no right to judge the 1.5 billion catholics in this world.

The bible judges them as they have a different gospel!

Galatians 1

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Catholics believe in a Gospel that good works get yourself to heaven.

Essentially if you are presenting a different gospel which the Catholics do then Paul says let you be anathema! you are outside the faith !

As I was reflecting before the Lord sometime ago the Spirit spoke to me. He said the cross is a narrow way. Only a few will find it.

Amen !

Dom

i wish more christian would read Pilgrims Progress!

You did not answer the question. Why can you be a mess but saved yet they cannot? Many catholics are raised in the faith. They have accepted Christ but a lifetime of bad teaching is hard to break, their view is contorted. You expect them to snap out of it and instantly be made right upon salvation yet by your own admission you arent able to do that either.

Paul reprimanded the BELIEVERS who had departed from faith unto works. He did not say they were not saved. He does not call them anathema, he calls the derilict teachers who teach works over faith and not faith unto works. Therr is a difference. He does not condemn the "lay person"

My dear brothers and sisters,

I would beseech the Lord for a Spirit of peace and understanding to reign in this conversation. I think often it is very easy to react in fear, rather than in understanding. I must admit, I do not agree with every stance of the Roman Catholic Church. However, to be fair - in this SermonIndex website, there are some writings in here that were written by Catholic Mystics. Madame Guyon, Brother Lawrence - both of whom the evangelical world has owed much to. These two authors influenced Watchman Nee, who in the end became a martyr in a Chinese prison. Guyon influenced Leonard Ravenhill as well. A.W. Tozer read some of the Catholic Mystics in history. Should we write off these men because they read Catholic material? Of course not!

And let us not forget the Early Church Fathers - Irenaeus, Augustine, Tertullian, Barnabas, Cyril of Jerusalem - these men were part of the Catholic (Universal) Church/Body. Augustine venerated Mary, but do we write off our brother? Of course not!

I only write this to try to be fair and balanced for all of us so that there will be some clarity on the matter. My purpose is not to win an argument, but to bring about a peaceful resolve. Some of the theologians we look up to have strange beliefs, but we dare not write them off for we know not the extent of the grace of God. Let's take a few moments to look at the theologians that are close to home. John Stott believed in annihilationism - which is no hell and a ceasing of existence. C.S. Lewis believed in praying for the dead. Lewis also believed that an unbeliever in hell may perhaps find grace if he repents. "Lewis believed that????" you may ask. Yes, he did. Yet he was one of the greats in the 20th Century for Christianity.

The point is this: God has the same amount of grace for those who are on the right side of history, and also for those who are on the wrong side of history. And most of the time, we are usually wrong about something. My hope is that we would not write off people too quickly and that we would not react out of fear. May we show the love of Christ to those with whom we may disagree with. Judgment is in the hands of God. It's not in the hands of mere mortal men. For we know not the heart of man as He does.

Your Servant in Jesus' Name,

- Michael Barnabas Hoy-Kuen Liao

Great post MichaelLiao!

The Catholic Christian music artist Matt Maher came to mind. His song "Lord, I Need You" is currently one of my favorite contemporary Christian songs (though I prefer listening to the Chris Tomlin rendition of it so as not to stumble others). Many Evangelicals love that song and sing in their churches (Btw the same goes for Hillsong songs though I'm sure many of us here highly disagree with that church's teachings).

Matt Maher has 104 songs and I browsed through the lyrics of many of them out of curiosity. I noticed only one song wherein he asks the saints to pray for us, and another one wherein he mentions Transubstantiation. All the other songs I looked at had lyrics that any Evangelical would agree with, songs that glorified the Triune God through Christ.

So what's my point? Should we write off Matt Maher as an unsaved apostate heretic? Or should there be room for grace and mercy toward him and for accepting him as a brother in Christ despite our differences in some of those areas? Personally, it's a bit of a tough call for me at this stage and it's something I'd have to wrestle with more, though I lean toward accepting him as a brother.

Thoughts?

Matt 7
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

What I find so hard is that we are dealing with scripture we tend to think God is swayed by the emotional ideas of men.

Acts 4
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Why do we think that God has to be swayed by man's feelings , Paul proclaims in Galatians if any man preach any other gospel , the Catholics proclaim another gospel therefore it puts them outside the aspect of salvation same with people like the Jehovah's witnesses and any other so called church group that does not preach the gospel.

god wrote a book the Bible and by that book he is going to judge the world and those that reject him will spend eternity in hell.

Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off

what we have today is people making God in there own image and idolatry which is forbidden in scripture that goes on in the Catholic church and in christiandom which is palletable to there own tastes and preferences

in the 3rd century the arian heresy got spread through music , it essentially denied the deity of the lord Jesus Christ. it became so popular.

what I find is that we cannot ignore scripture when we are talking about Jesus or God because of our synchronisation with a society that has gone against him.

Noah preached and he was the only one saved with his family

people like Rob bell and John stott deny the existence of hell yet it exists if you have to deny hell you also have to deny the existence of heaven.

people in the world say God is the only who will judge me , yet not understanding that God wrote a book called the Bible and that God has only one way to be saved through his son dying on the cross for our sin not through baptism , it is by grace alone, through faith alone , through Christ alone

There are many in the Protestant church who have not heard the gospel who are not saved, we forget the god we served wiped out an entire planet during the time of Noah's day except for eight people , the Bible talks about as in the days of Noah so shall it be in the days of the sons of men

god has provided an ark through the gospel and groups like the Catholic church reject it

as Christians do we follow Christ and his word or something else

Because we tend to not read the Old Testament that same God that wiped out the World during Noahs day, came down to die for our sin and that same God that destroyed Jerusalem during Jeremiahs time.

Why is it we tend to play fast and loose with God and God is only a loving God if he can tend to destroy wickedness and evil.

If you read the stories of "Our Lady of Fatima" or the visions of Bernadette the focus is all on Mary. At Fatima she allegedly appeared holding a rosary which I thought was a tad odd.

Once again the issue is not individual Catholics who do know any better but rather the RCC that has pushed blasphemous beliefs for centuries.

I can agree that perhaps protestants have overreacted and under- respect Mary. But Mariolatry is alive and well in the RCC. The "blessed virgin" is mentioned incessantly in mass and prayer books etc etc. it goes far beyond mere respect and honor.

When talking about catholicism as a religion yes there is much wrong. But keep in mind the catholic church is made up of 1.5 billion people. These people are flesh and blood, they are alive, they have been through things we havent and have had their own distinct experiences that shape who they are. They are nuanced, as all people are, and youre attempt to label them all as collectively bad is pathetic and shows much lack of wisdom. God will certainly not be dealing with them collectively, for we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ. And please remember it is Christ who sits on that throne.

Get Christ out of your box. Your judgements are not His. He sees the hurting and the broken and those who are hungry and thirsty. The way i see it both protestants and catholics are in the exact same boat, they have both been taught certain doctrines and teachings, taught how to see the bible, taught what is okay to believe and what is heretical and because of that both of them see God through a very distorted, limited and untrue lens.

Because of this God is robbed of His power and only allowed to act through their lens. Not that He really is but in their minds He is. Let me explain. If you took a protestant and a catholic in a room and an act of God was performed in there that contradicted their established view of God BOTH of them would find a way to interpret it according to what they believe is true rather then forming their beliefs around it. How can they do otherwise if to contradict what they have been taught is heresy? And do you see how neither are loving the TRUTH? You are both in the same room.

Does anyone have ears to hear? Eyes to see? Or is this going to be heard by protestant ears and seen by protestant eyes and readily dismissed?

By the beginning of the 1980s over 120,000,000 Catholics worldwide had become Pentecostal and spoke in tongues and manifested other gifts of the Spirit. How did that happen? I'm not such sure God allows one to have this experience if they don't believe in Christ. The baggage of wrong doctrine is another matter than Christ coming into one's heart with spiritual gifts resulting. Can't Christ Himself save at any time in any place in any denomination?

Tyler- I appreciate what you are saying- I really do. Those who know me well on this forum will know that I am not dogmatic about most things and in fact I am something of a crusader against dogmatism.

But there is some danger in "excusing" the very bad doctrines of the RCC. I have said at least 3 times that I don't blame individual Catholics for the mess of the RCC.

But when you start saying "God will meet them where they are" you are only about .5 inches from saying it really doesn't matter what is taught by the RCC because God will "meet the practitioners where they are."

There may be true believers in the LDS or JWs but we would not then say that the LDS or JWs are ok.

There seems to be much more leniency shown to the RCC and I am not sure why, as they do more damage in a year than the LDS and JWs have done in their entire history.

Maryolotry is definitely prevalent among multitudes of Catholics and it's definitely something we cannot compromise with. Sadly, many worship Mary as the queen of heaven and I'm convinced it cuts them off from salvation.

TMK- I understand your concern. Youre worried such a thinking will excuse error and cover everything with an "Its okay God sees the heart" attitude. There are those who hold such a view, but i will not let their doctrine which has been born out of fear to mar the truth of Christ.

I would like to ask, are all your doctrines correct in every way and form? If no (i dont think any of us would say yes) should I think of you the same way I think of the catholics who also have faith but hold to false teachings?

We are talking about men who have believed on Christ (catholics, and of course i speak generally because I have to.) They believe that they are saved by faith and by works. Is this false? Well, they are missing the mark. It is works through faith that saves a man. Are they in a damnable heresy? It seems to me to be more confusion then anything, at least they have some of the concepts down including having faith in Christ, which is salvation and it is a starting point for us seeking to help them towards truth.

They are saved by their faith but they are unable to grow in Christ because of the false things they have accepted. They cant move forward, its blocking their way. Does that make you mad at them? Or does it make you love and pity them and seek to help? They know not what they do. Do you see sin is not excused? Its effects are real and will be felt but we were talking about salvation, and that is brought about by faith in Christ.

As for LDS and JW I do not know much about them but I do know that anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved, even if it is by fire.

I have not said catholics are "ok". I believe many who have faith in Christ are saved but like i said they are unable to grow in truth because of what they accepted. If being saved is the goal then I suppose many are okay, I however am not content with the bare minimum for myself or anyone else. Id rather we all come to the completion of understanding in Him.

//should I think of you the same way I think of the catholics who also have faith but hold to false teachings?//

Well there are false teachings and then there are false teachings.

My wife came out of RCC after she met me; her whole family both sides were all RCC from way back. I believe her mother came to true faith in the months prior to her death. Whether she already had true faith is open to question. I just don't know.

Of course I am not mad at catholic persons. Already said that. All the blame lies in the institution and of course those who are culpable will answer to God alone.

This quote from Leonard Ravenhill stood out from a message I recently heard by him. Speaking of Paul in Athens, Ravenhill said,

"He went down the street and when he saw the street it was lined with churches as we would say. It was lined with places of worship. Oh this doesn’t stagger too many of us, does it? We just go down the street and say, "There’s a Roman Catholic church, that’s Jehovah’s Witnesses, that’s the Mormons, there the Hare Krishnas meet…and so what?” Does it stir you that those people have been teaching false gods and they rape people’s minds just as a man rapes a girl’s body?...when he saw all these people tricked, seduced by deceiving spirits, he was angry about it! Do you ever feel a holy anger?”

I used to drive by a certain street corner where there was a white statue of Mary, and on some occasions, I saw people gathered around it, gazing upon it in awe. They would bring flowers and leave them right by it on the ground. I would get upset within every time. Again, sadly this is the case with multitudes upon multitudes of Catholics. They do not worship Christ but instead worship a false god named Mary, a Mary that is not the Mary we read about in the Gospels.

As Godly believers we address people on a human level, as humans and as sinners living in a fallen world. We also address them as recipients of grace and mercy, we have been given the opportunity to know and believe Christ according to knowledge and experience.
Who would treat a person face to face as they are spoken of here? When we love people we learn to temper our responses according to the working of the Holy Spirit. Speaking abstractly to invisible people about abstract doctrines and various philosophical viewpoints doesn't do much to improve your love for Catholics or point them to Christ.
Hint: When you are confident in your faith and the love of Jesus is yours and yours to give you need not fear your gestures of love and respect are compromising your witness.
For some believers their sole pursuit is to declare RCC teachings false. Ok, but what fruit is gained? Is there any measurable difference between anti RCC rants here where no one comes forward to announce so and so helped me to understand the error of my ways, therefore I repented and believed; and those who spend the time to know personally Catholics and offer to them a biblical gospel? I say there is a great difference. For some it's too hard; Its far easier to sound spiritual in RCC denunciations than it is to love someone in patience and with much prayer. True spiritual fruit is the outworking of obedient encounters bringing the gospel to the forefront where in times past the religious-lost person was merely anathematized.
If we are going to imitate Jesus Christ, continued denunciations are no better than the pharisaical denunciations which hardened the peoples hearts and left them with nothing attractive about Jesus Christ. Their lack of true love for the flock and their law-keeping was revealed by Jesus to be totally inert, incapable of actually demonstrating the truth about God. The truth about God was seen vividly...not just in a whip or in Matt 25 judgments but by his feedings, his miracles, his engagement with children, his patience with is disciples. The Catholics need to see those sermons in us as well.
You see, those who exhibit a strict doctrinal pursuit of showing the difference between a godly man and a religious-fake do put on a good show for those already sold on anti-Catholic rhetoric, but for those who want to learn to reach out to them, care for them, seek them out and minister to them, that show does not display the grace and love of God we are to freely offer them without rebuke, without reproach, without an argumentative spirit. You see for me, knowing truth from error is Christianity 101, its where we start. Maybe some of you are just starting so all this is necessary. But there will come a day and I hope soon where rhetoric is replaced with compassion and dogmatic assertion is replaced with prayful gospel witness.
Yes, I know some of you want to continue in a display of anti-RCC tradition and teaching but what good is it if all that comes of it is a sour and frustrated spirit that cannot believe God to save the 'religiously inoculated'. The way I see it, you have the problem not them.

When I was born
Rome was my birthplace
As I grew up
The catechism would embrace

From baptismal regeneration
To Pope veneration
From worshiping Mary
To Transubstantiation

It all seemed so innocent
Just going to mass
Not much of a difference
From taking out the trash

I'd go to confession
To get absolution
But all I would find
Was more convolution

I called up the priest
To help me one day
His counsel to me
Was the rosary pray

Indulgence Indulgence
I heard the priest say
But all it could do
Was keep my conscience at bay

If I were to die
What would happen to me
No worry no worry
You'd soon be set free

You see there's this place
Its called purg-a-tory
Just light some candles
And pay a small fee

I began to get nervous
As I pondered all this
And thought to myself
Could I be amiss

Born Roman Catholic
Birthed in a lie
For sure this ain't how
I wanna come to die

So I cried out like Mary
And the jailer as well
That my lot would not be
A fiery hell

Jesus my Savior
My God and my King
For all eternity
Your praises I'll sing

He has redeemed me
And purchased my soul
With His own blood
He's made me whole

Never to perish
Never to leave
I have His promise
And this I believe

Come out of her my people
She cannot give salvation
Promising you liberty
But you'll only get damnation

Really appolus every single person in the Roman church was born into it? What an ignorant statement!! I can't even fathom how you or anyone could make such a ludicrous claim. And even those who were, so what? Millions of people were born into protestantism. Their faith is fake too?

As someone born into protestantism I know the struggle of finding a real genuine faith in Christ apart from having been born into it. I know what it is like to have to ask yourself if you really believe it and to start from scratch, so to speak.

Catholics are taught they must endure to the very end (in faith and in deed) to be saved. They do not fully trust or comprehend the saving grace of Christ. But brother you are living in willful ignorance if you cant see millions of protestants with this same mentality even if they consider that doctrine "heretical." Working for salvation is HUGE in the hearts of men and it takes getting to a place of trusting Christ to fully accept it. It doesn't always just happen.

I know christians who were raised in households where to gain the love of the parent you had to "do good". Very abusive households/relationships. It is very sad to see. Are they not saved because they haven't yet been able to conquer this their hearts? These catholics that have faith in Christ yet are taught lies and are ensnared by them, do you really think they are going to hell because of this? Jesus took pity on those who were led astray by false teachers (As sheep gone astray). It was the shepherds who preached error and led them astray that he reserved his harsh words for.

You are not mimicking the heart of Christ. And I do not need to tell you my authority or my relation to the catholic church. It's my relation to Christ and my freedom in Him that enables me to love them.

I think a lot of this "catholics are going to hell" is like the parable of the workers who were hired for a days wage. Then more were hired, then more. At the end of the day those who had worked all day were paid the same as those who worked only a little while. They were jealous. How can they get the same reward as us? We believed more, we didn't accept the false teachings that they did! But it is faith in the Son of God that justifies us and saves us in the eyes of the Father and that is open to all who call upon it.

My holy anger is demonstrated against you who are so eager to uphold the teachings you have accepted and to justify yourself (by your works) that you are willing to write off 25% of the worlds population because they do not have the understanding you do. There is my anger, it is against your lack of love, sympathy and knowledge.

I simply don't care what Ravenhill said, he is not my authority. I care what Jesus said and taught.

I have no connection to the catholic church, and I really don't care if you believe that or not because my points (which you don't actually address) are true regardless.

We should be angry at the derelict priests who corrupt peoples mind and not (as you do) write off the enormous amount of people who have been trapped by it. You paint them all the same color and say they are all the same. Are all protestants the same? Obviously not. Judging from the amount of dissonance on this forum at least the catholics have unity in their error.

Where is my holy anger? It is directed against you. Now I ask: Where is your love?? Where is the heart of the Son of Man who came to seek and save that which is hurt? Where is the Spirit who seeks the better of others? Where is Christ who did not come to condemn but to save?

Greg, let appolus get the last word in and then I think it would be wise to lock this thread. It's been well established that anyone who does not subscribe to what we believe or hasn't been able to yet see the Truth above what they have been taught are all heretics deserving of eternal torment. We are so right in everything! Praise be to us!

Brethren, as a half Mexican/half Salvadorean I grew up in a predominantly Catholic culture, knowing many Catholics and being fairly acquainted with certain aspects of Catholicism. My mom took my sister and I to both Catholic and Protestant churches as kids. I used to profess to be a Catholic and wore a rosary because it was the cool traditional thing to do in the culture I grew up in. I've known several Catholics that seemed pretty devout in their religious practices. My aunt made sure all my cousins went through all their first communion rituals (my mom was less "devout" and much more lax with us so we didn't get as far as my cousins). My aunt also practiced "white magic" heavily, which is also prevalent among many Hispanic Catholics.

Before coming to Christ I noticed a big difference between Catholic and Protestant churches. In the Catholic churches the people did not seem to be that serious about their faith in terms of seeking to obey God on a daily basis and not just during the Mass, whereas in the Protestant churches it seemed that many, though not all, were indeed serious about daily obeying the Lord.

So when it came time for me to get serious and right with God at the age of 22, and when I felt I had to choose between Catholic and Protestant churches, the choice was obvious to me.

Looking back I cannot recall ever knowing any Catholics that seemed to be born again growing up as a kid. Granted, as a Christian I have met some that seemed to be born again but very few and far between. That's why I stated earlier that I'm convinced that the vast majority of Catholics are not born again, myriads more than within Protestant Evangelicalism. There are huge barriers that keep Catholics from coming to know Christ savingly, and the blame is on them not on God. God knows our hearts.

On another note, from the little research I've done, it seems that their traditions and false teachings got worse over time, kind of similar to how the Pharisees' traditions and false teachings worsened over time up to the time of Christ. Our Lord said that those traditions and false teachings played a roll in keeping the common people from coming to know God, and it's the same with Roman Catholicism, and Greek Orthodoxy.

Frank wrote- ps the ex-catholics on this site know the true nature of catholicism much more than someone who admits that they have abosolutely no connection to the catholic church. They also know what it is to be very patient and loving with their catholic family and continue to witness to them the truth. It is sad that they also have to contend with folks who have no connection with catholicism what-so-ever, intimate or directly tell those very loved ones that they are already Christians.

_______________

Greetings Frank

I was going to stay well clear of this thread as sadly I have learned the hard way no matter what you say people are just unwilling to hear what you are saying. That we love all those lost in the RCC, what we do not love is the institution that deceives them. I am no longer surprised by it just sadden really. However I had to write to you and say that I am here with you brother. What you shared here speaks so much to my heart right now. As you know my mother who is nearing the end of her days is devoted Catholic and will not hear the truth. She prays to mary, she prays to dead saints, she is faithful to the RCC and can't see anything wrong in that. As Art Katz said how can you profess to love someone and yet refuse to tell them the truth, that JESUS alone is the Way the Truth and the Light...

God Bless
mj

I’d like to share about my mom’s testimony for encouragement. She grew up in El Salvador, a predominantly Catholic country, much like Mexico is. Her immediate family was Catholic and she also professed to be Catholic growing up and into adulthood, attending Mass occasionally. When her first husband (with whom she had a little baby girl at the time-my half sister) was threatening to divorce her, she prayed to some saint, asking for his "divine assistance” to restore her marriage. About a week later her husband filed for divorce and he ended up getting legal custody of her little girl by paying a large sum of money, not even allowing my mom any visits with her little girl. That totally devastated her and she fled to the US and later on had my sister and I out of wedlock. While here in the US she got into dealing tarot cards (something also prevalent among Hispanic Catholics).

Fast forward to when I was 14 and I got into a gang and started going in and out of jail. Needless to say she started being very worried for my welfare. So she began to feel convicted about her tarot cards and gave them up. She also gave up drinking out of conviction in the midst of her trials with me and the hell I put her through. And she began asking for prayer from Christians who attended an Evangelical church nearby (her conscience told her that that’s where the truth and power of God were as opposed to within Catholic churches).

One time, in the morning after I didn’t come home to sleep and she was worried, she went to a pastor asking for prayer. The pastor told her she need not worry and that I’d be home at noon, and I came home at that time just like he said. She ended up getting baptized in that church but remained unconverted.

When I got out of prison at the age of 23 and she saw the transformation of my heart and life, she was amazed at the power of God and felt convicted about her lack of true repentance. So she surrendered to the Lord and was transformed. She began to tell everyone about the one true and living God, her Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and His saving grace.

Though she cannot read her Bible that much due to poor eyesight and difficulty in comprehension when she reads, she is a powerful prayer warrior who puts me to shame in that area. She carries tracts when she has some and distributes them often as she walks around and takes the bus to places. She is a bold witness for the Lord and on many occasions, she has faithfully told Catholics that saints and/or statues made by human hands have absolutely no power to deliver and that there is only one true and Living God to whom we must pray and cry out to in true repentance and faith. Some Catholics have appreciated her sharing the truth with them, while some have gotten uncomfortable and upset.

I believe there is a time and place for reasoning with others and for boldly, yet lovingly warning them about their false idols that have no power to deliver. We see Peter and Paul doing just that in the book of Acts.

Amen praying in agreement.

Btw, one of my cousins (son of my aunt who’s been heavily into white magic/witchcraft along with being a somewhat devout and staunch Catholic) came to the Lord in prison about a year and a half ago (he’s still in prison). He says he now has a burning desire to reach his family with the gospel and see them saved. He understands now that his family has been caught up in dead religion for many years. He asked me to send him Bible study resources as I'm able, and so far I’ve sent him an NKJV Bible, a Matthew Henry Study Bible, a Bible Dictionary, a Strong’s Concordance and a few Christian books, and he’s been excited to receive them and is feasting upon the Word in there. May the Lord use him as an instrument of truth and life in his family’s life (he's supposed to get out next year Lord willing).

A short observation...

Yes, I agree the Catholic church as an organisation is far from biblical and ought to be avoided and even resisted as far as official doctrine and practice are concerned.

So must all other extra biblical organisations and movements which move away from sound doctrine and living as delivered to us in the bible, especially the writings of our Lord and His apostles.

No denomination is from God.....they are all man made.

Shocked by that statement? Most of you know it is true. Our Lord never gave birth to a denomination, He gave birth to a living body called the church.

I will fellowship with all brethren everywhere who love the Lord Jesus as He is revealed in the bible and by the Holy Spirit.
I will strive for the purity of our faith and teaching and its simplicity and stand against all man made teachings that burden the people of God, no matter in which denomination it is found.

Beware, Christian, how you identify yourself: I am a Baptist? a Methodist? an Anglican?
Are we divided? Did one of the above die for you?

Blessings,

Is it more important that we are know what are beliefs are so we can defend them

amen you need to love jesus alot, you cannot love jesus without not knowing what the Bible says