remarriage

Sherri-

Read this and see if it addresses your scenario (he lists a bunch of typical scenarios at the end of the article: http://thenarrowpath.com/ta_divorce.php

If it does not address your specific scenario, email Steve directly (there is a link for this on the home page of the site) and explain your scenario and he can provide some guidance.

My DEAR Sister,

There are some things that NO ONE can help us with,...and the risk of asking man, for our answers,.....although there 'may be one' out there ,....that 'might' stir us in the right direction,......I might say when we/ you need instruction in something that dire, ...and especially when you may feel like The Lord is dealing with you about this,...then I must say seek His Word,...and Him alone.

(and I am sure that is what you are doing,) ....I would say, ...fast and pray,...get your answers from Him alone.

You already know that I love you,
❤️🙏

---------------
elizabeth

sherri2...If it's Gods will for me to remain with my second husband, then why do I keep feeling conviction as if I'm sinning?

..and may I add, do not silence the voice of your conscience until you have peace with God and yourself.

Phil 4
6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

by MrBillPro

sherri2...If it's Gods will for me to remain with my second husband, then why do I keep feeling conviction as if I'm sinning?

Maybe because you come here to often and read to many of some of the self righteous posts, and allow them to convict you.

Sherri,

I have always told the Lord, "If I don't know what to do, I'm not doing anything." And the Holy Spirit has NEVER failed to speak to me when my crooked ways needed straightening, never. So please do not do anything until you hear from God, not what man wants you to do.

God bless you,
Lisa

Hi Sherri:

A few things.
1. What little bit of info you shared here is not enough for anyone to help you properly.
2. Its important to discuss these kinds of things with your pastor and elders so they can advise you, pray for you and love you forward into obedience.
3. Do not pay much heed to "don't listen to man" advice, because the minute you do, you have listened to a man/woman advise you. You came here expecting to be advised on some level and it would be poor counsel to send you out alone without godly men or women to aid you in this life-changing decision.
4. The BIG danger is your own heart, because when the will of God is known...and it will become apparent to you; you will need the faith and courage to obey, that my dear sister is where the real temptation lay. The small danger is the various counsels you can get from various schools of thought on divorce and remarriage. For this reason, this venue is the WORST place to obtain loving, careful counseling that addresses you. Why? Because we cannot discuss in depth here what needs to be addressed in private and with face to face prayer and discernment. (I'm not saying there are no good counselors here, I am saying God will advise you and you will need the face to face witness of others who are godly before taking any step).

So, whether you regard my counsel or not, I do advise you to discuss this "with man", those who are faithful leaders who will care for your soul.

1Jn.2:26-29,

¶ These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

28 ¶ And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

❤️
-------------------
elizabeth

"...I love the man Im with, and do not want him to be found an adulterer because he married me. I have so many regrets, but I can't change the past. Since the door of sin was opened years ago, the man I'm currently married to has been unfaithful to me twice."

The man you're currently married to is an adulterer already. And it's not because he married you years ago. He "has been unfaithful...twice!"

I have no more to say than that.

I will not advise you regarding any decision. I will just say, do not let your feelings guide your decision. Emotions have taken you to the place you are now.

STOP FEELING SO GUILTY! Because the feeling of guilt will cause you to make another bad decision.

If you've truly and sincerely repented as you say you have, believe God that you are forgiven. Live in that state of mind, and you will be able to pray and hear from God, what that good, pleasing and acceptable will of your Lord is. Amen.

My friends, red letter edition:

Matt 12:31 - And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

Every sin, every single sin is forgiven (except blasphemy), when we ask, every single one.

Jesus himself said this but it sure seems I'm reading that some are saying that they are not forgiven, am I wrong?

Hi Lisa: I do hope I am not conveying the error that adultery cannot be forgiven.

But again, this venue is the wrong venue, we don't have all the facts, we don't know the back story, we have not heard his side of the story. This is not to impugn Sherri at all, its just that "reading between the lines" should not be how Sherri understands our positions or accepts or rejects our counsel.

Naw Lisa, you’re correct, you know how I know, I’m reading out of the same bible as you are, mine says the same thing. Some folks just like to pour out that bucket of condemnation upon our heads, do I need to read you what my bible says about condemnation, O I forgot we’re reading out of the same one. You know if we all reminded ourselves just how big of an old sinner we are when we post, I bet the posts here would be more along the lines of forgiveness, grace and mercy. Personally if you have not been divorced, you can’t preach to me, how could you. If I’m in a plane and the pilot just died, I’m going to be looking for someone that’s flown a plane, not someone that’s just read the instructions. :-)

by Gloryandgrace
Hi Lisa: I do hope I am not conveying the error that adultery cannot be forgiven.

But again, this venue is the wrong venue, we don't have all the facts, we don't know the back story, we have not heard his side of the story. This is not to impugn Sherri at all, its just that "reading between the lines" should not be how Sherri understands our positions or accepts or rejects our counsel.

I never thought you conveyed that the error of adultery could not be forgiven. Nothing I said was toward you.

God bless,
Lisa

Grace:: (1)"The Devine influnce upon the heart, and (2) It's reflection in the life."

(1)'The hearing of the Word ,..(2) The doing of that Word.

Grace,that drawing of us to the will of God, and the ability to obey that Word, whatever that Word is.

Art Katz once said that Grace was God, Himself.

----------------❤️
elizabeth

Brother Greg said......There is no verse that speaks of God forgiving remarriage and allowing the couple to stay together.

Is there a verse that speaks of God not forgiving remarriage? What does God not forgive? If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9).

If someone remarries and confesses their sin, would they have to divorce to truly repent? I personally believe that God forgives all sin, so if someone continues in that marriage, are they now living in sin? And can that sin be forgiven?

(Edited)

I do agree that the blasphemy/ speaking evil of the Holy Spirit is the one unforgivable sin. One thought though. If there a person who has been living as a homosexual, but then they repent and ask the Lord sincerely for forgiveness....but then continue in the homosexual relationship, does God's grace now cover their sin?

Sis. Sherri, only after posting did I see your post on this page where you said:

"If I steal someone’s car and choose to make it mine, then years later I repent for stealing it, and choose to keep it because I’ve had it for so long already, would God bless that...honestly? I would have to say no. I took what was not mine."

May God bless you and continue to guide you by His Holy Spirit and His Spirit-Breathed word. And may we all have grace for eachother as we grow in Him and His truth.

Maybe I just think a little more logically, but comparing a thief to a marriage someone is bound to, is different in my world. A thief is not bound to stealing, he can quit at anytime without hurting anyone, most likely if he quit he would be helping many he might have stole from. I don't see how any divorce, regardless of how the circumstances were before the marriage helps anyone. What I do believe is, that we humans like to structure scripture to where is tastes best to them, just because it fits best into the lifestyle they live.

If we all would go look in the mirror every morning and say, just look at this old dirty rag, this old sinner, my righteous acts are like filthy rags, even God said.. "Listen to Me, you stubborn-minded, Who are far from righteousness". If we did this every morning, I bet there would be a lot more Jesus talked about around here, and less condemnation type threads. I said this in another thread, When a person can take grace as serious as sin, I personally believe they're on their way to living the life Christ wants us to live.

Sherri,

Sound's like you've already made up your mind to leave your current husband. So why the question and why bring up the debate?
But maybe you should discuss with a mature leader in your church as suggested.

Dave, it's call looking for justification, this is the last place I would come to looking for justification, especially when it comes to marriage and divorce. like you said, go to a mature leader of the church, someone that knows you and more about your life. We only know you as Sherri, how can we even begin to judge or minister to someone we don't know anything about? or very little only what you've shared with us. A lot of times the answer is right there in front of us, we just fail to ask God for Wisdom.

You see you have been given all sorts of advice here.

The guy I shared about earlier who left his wife because of post natal depression had followed a "prophesy" that it was okay to divorce his wife and marry another.

Be careful with man's advice, I will pray for you nonetheless.

Sherri:

Thank you for sharing your testimony I will be praying that the Holy Spirit will continue to lead you and guide you.

Here are several additional ministries committed to upholding Gods word concerning the marriage covenant should anyone so be led or find a need for further counsel from Godly leaders and ministries.

http://cpr-ministries.com/

http://www.praisepowerprayertemplect.org/

http://www.marriagedivorce.com/

https://www.christquestministries.com/

http://cadz.net/

Thank you for sharing dear sister...will remember you in my prayers..

Sherri,

I heard you and wish you well.

To the rest who agree with divorcing your current spouse and going back to the first spouse... can you explain the following verses?.....

What about the verses in Deut 24:1-4

1"When a man takes a wife and marries her, and it happens that she finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some indecency in her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out from his house,
2 and she leaves his house and goes and becomes another man's wife,
3 and if the latter husband turns against her and writes her a certificate of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house, or if the latter husband dies who took her to be his wife,
4 then her former husband who sent her away IS NOT ALLOWED TO TAKE HER AGAIN TO BE HIS WIFE SINCE SHE HAS BEEN DEFILED; for that is an abomination before the LORD, and you shall not bring sin on the land which the LORD your God gives you as an inheritance.

In the thread, "til death do us part" dfella said,

"...marrying and marriage does not make two people one flesh no matter how many timnes they do it."

No,it does not!

According to the Scriptures what does?

What do these 4 Scriptures have in common?

Genesis 2:24
Mathew 19:5
1 Corinthians 6:16
Ephesians 5:31

Just as the many know not what makes "two...one flesh", or what marriage is, many know not what divorce is or what it does.

I'd recommend reading John Owen's article "On Remarriage After Divorce", it explains it well.

Something I read years ago...
and I do agree with!
https://heartholiness.wordpress.com/2010/05/09/what-god%E2%80%99s-word-teaches-about-divorce-and-remarriage-by-missionary-ma-daoud/

Sherri,

Just sent you an email.

God bless you.

I sure am glad that MA Daoud fellow wasn't my father. And if I were a woman, I'd certainly not want him as a husband. His law goes beyond Christ's, and our Father in heaven.

Even Zac Poonen has grace to offer those who have been remarried.

He writes,

Jesus forbade remarriage after divorce. But He did not tell us what to do about cases where people are already remarried and have children before they are converted. SO such cases must be dealt with individually with compassion, considering the fate of the innocent children. There is no standard answer.
In the Old Testament, divorce was permitted. So that is the standard for those who have not come under
the new covenant (all unbelievers).
Zac

Savannah, I love the forum, but it’s surely not known for its grace and compassion. I don’t understand this, but I guess if you live a near perfect life, you don’t need to speak much about grace. Some here are very hard people, well I’m going on the words they type, I’m more of a grace and love person, because God has shown me a lot of grace and love in my life. I guess it’s easy to be a Sunday morning armchair pastor on a forum, because no one sees the lifestyle you really lead, well God does.

Lisa asked:
"What about the verses in Deut 24:1-4

Sister,

Before I give you some things to prayerfully ponder and consider on the topic of marriage, its creation, Designer, permanency, and dissolution, etc. I want to mention a couple things and do my best to keep it brief.

This topic is never going to go away and most likely will never be brought into complete agreement amongst professing Christians. It is an issue that I believe is in the top three deceptions plaguing Christianity today and you can be rest assured that God is the One who will bring His bride into full understanding, revelation, and agreement to the seriousness of this issue before He returns.

In answering your question on Deuteronomy 24:1-4 there is a need to understand things before and after this law was written and allowed. When we look at these following verses first we find who the author of marriage is and whether what Moses allowed, and why he allowed it, if it negates what God designed in the beginning and desires for believers today.

Mat 19:3-9 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? (4) And he answered and said unto them, HAVE YOU NOT READ, that HE which made them at the BEGINNING made them male and female, (5) And HE said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall BE one flesh? (6) Wherefore they are no more twain, but ONE flesh. What therefore GOD HATH JOINED together, let NOT MAN put asunder. (7) They say unto him, WHY DID MOSES then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? (8) He saith unto them, Moses BECAUSE OF THE HARDNESS OF YOUR HEARTS suffered (allowed) you to put away your wives: BUT FROM THE BEGINNING IT WAS NOT SO. (9) AND I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

If you are led to study this topic in any depth you will find that there were two prevailing schools of thought during the time of Jesus, one was more liberal and the other more conservative, as to the reasons why a man could divorce his wife. This is why when the Pharisees came to Jesus their attempt was to trap Him in siding with either the liberal or conservative sides but Jesus sided with neither.

Moses allowed divorce because of the hardness of mens hearts and was NEVER Gods intention from the beginning. Also in the OT God winked at sin and permitted certain sins that He no longer permits in the NT but commands men everywhere to repent.

This portion in Deuteronomy is addressed by God in Jeremiah 3.

Jeremiah 3:1 THEY SAY, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? BUT thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; YET RETURN AGAIN TO ME, saith the LORD.

It is important to note that "They say” Is not what God says, and as you read through this portion of scripture God is trying to drive home the point of repentance and the word for return, returned, and turn is the Hebrew word Shub H7725 and is used several times in Jeremiah 3 alone. Even though Israel had turned and committed adultery and God gave her a bill of divorcement He said they were still married and He wanted her back in spite of her playing the whore, and her adultery. Read verse 3:1 again.

Jeremiah 3:7-8 And I said after she had done all these things, TURN THOU UNTO ME. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it. (8) And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I HAD PUT HER AWAY, and given her a BILL OF DIVORCE; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

As you read further you will now see Gods true heart not only for Israel but also for His church, families, couples, etc. in the NT that many skip over. You must understand that God desires to see forgiveness, repentance, healing, restoration, and reconciliation.

Jeremiah 3:13-15 Only ACKNOWLEDGE THINE INIQUITY, that thou hast TRANSGRESSED against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed My voice, saith the LORD. (14) TURN, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; FOR I AM MARRIED UNTO YOU: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion: (15) And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

Proverbs 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

We should know that God is not willing that any should perish but that all would come to repentance and that He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked but that they would TURN (Shub) from their sin. And look at the promise in verse 15. When we are broken, contrite, and repentant confessing and forsaking our sin God WILL provide Godly anointed teachers and Pastors to come along side to lead, shepherd, and guide.

The majority of Christianity however does not accept the whole counsel of God and the permanency of the marriage covenant because of the hardness of their hearts (Jesus words). But where do you ever see God siding with the majority anywhere in the bible?

God works with the minority, remnant, and narrow road minded people not the majority. While I have said there are scores of people who are coming to the truth of the permanency of marriage until death they still fall under the minority. I will also say it is the difference between the Many and the Chosen for Many are called, BUT, Few are chosen.

Lisa, I have listed numerous ministries who are holding up and declaring the truth on MDR. The foundation on the truth of marriage is founded upon very simple and clear passages in scripture. If anyone desires to know Gods heart on the matter I would encourage you to start there.

Print them out and you will find that all the clear plain scriptures come into full agreement with one another. THEN, look at the unclear scriptures that appear to contradict the clear scriptures.

God is NOT the author of confusion, God does not change, God does not contradict Himself. Everyone wants to start the hunt on portions such as in Matthew 5 & 19, and Deuteronomy 24 and build a doctrine. That is exactly what I did and that is why it took me three years to come to a divine conclusion as I had fully surrendered and submitted to not doing MY will but Gods.

I had NO preachers sharing the truth with me but the absolute contrary of which were primarily Pastors and leadership within the church. Most people who are coming to the truth on this topic are coming to it in their prayer closets, dreams, night watches, and consciences. God is faithfully coming to His remnant and declaring His heart and truth on what marriage truly is and when He does, He promises to lead us to Godly men who will confirm what the Holy Spirit has been showing.

I know of one Pastor who pastored a church of 400 and God began to deal with him on this very topic. He was so convicted and dared not tell anyone, even his own wife, what God was showing him but he submitted and studied it out for a couple of years. When he finally concluded the truth he then went to his wife and shared with her what God had been showing him and asked her to study and pray.

When she finally came into agreement and saw the truth they then went to the elders in the church and shared and asked them to pray and seek the Lord and His word if these things were so. Amazingly, the elders also concluded that marriage is for life but the real test was yet to follow.

Next, they took it to the church congregation and that church went from 400 to less than 40 before you could blink an eye. The church put the Pastor and elders out.

I need to close and while it is not my desire to bring contention, strife, division, debate, or argument I must be obedient to what God would have me to do.

Lisa, consider reading also the book of Hosea and his marriage to Gomer and if you would like to further study and ponder something outside of the scriptures on Deuteronomy 24 you can go here and follow a Q&A/debate on the topic.

http://cadz.net/deuteronomy-moses/

Dr. Joseph Webb has a number of resources, videos, books, newsletter, etc. He gives a very balanced teaching on this topic. I have met him personally, been to his home, and a number of meetings he has held around the country.
I would encourage you to watch his video teaching series and he will help to bring the Big picture into perspective.

http://cpr-ministries.com/

Savanah wrote:

"Just as the many know not what makes "two...one flesh", or what marriage is, many know not what divorce is or what it does.”

Savanah,

It’s not "What” makes "two….one flesh” but "WHO”. Scripture is plain and clear WHO makes two, one.

Matthew 19:5-6 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? (6) Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore GOD HATH JOINED, let not man put asunder.

MarK 10:7-9 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; (8) And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. (9) What therefore GOD HATH JOINED together, let not man put asunder.

Malachi 2:14-15 Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: YET is she thy companion, and the wife of thy COVENANT. (15) AND DID HE NOT MAKE ONE? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.

Good post David, what we all need to do is keep the divorce and remarriage in prospective. Sin is sin is sin, does God actually have a level of sin, like 1-10? If so I’ve never seen it. Yes he says he hates divorce, but my guess is he hates all sin, there will be many, many sinners in Heaven, thanks to his son Jesus Christ. For the record I have no dog in the fight in the divorce and remarriage debate, I was married almost 40 years and my wife passed, and I chose to stay single. What I don’t understand is why is it we show grace for some sins, but not others? People will dig through the scriptures for weeks to find scriptures to condemn divorce and remarriage, but show grace for other certain other sins. It’s a good thing that we go before God on our last day, and not man, if we went before man, Heaven would be empty. I’m not condoning divorce and remarriage, but I’m not condoning any sin. Is there a scripture that says, if you don’t totally abide by every scripture, that you’re bound for hell? Or is there a covering for our sins? Just asking

Sherri, I also sent you an email...hope you will find it.

God's blessings to you as you work through this trying situation.

Sandra

I have read this and will respond but it will take time. I have to do a PowerPoint for work this weekend and then present it. It may be Tue or Wed before I can get back to you.

Thank you for understanding,
Lisa

Bill asks,

"Sin is sin is sin, does God actually have a level of sin, like 1-10? What I don’t understand is why is it we show grace for some sins, but not others? Is there a scripture that says, if you don’t totally abide by every scripture, that you’re bound for hell? Or is there a covering for our sins?"

Bill,

I appreciate your questions and will do my best to share some things to prayerfully consider as to my understanding.

You are right sin is sin and if we offend in one area we are guilty of breaking all the commandments.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

We must not only be quick to point out sin I totally agree we must do it with love and grace.

2Timothy 4:1-5 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; (2) Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. (3) For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; (4) And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. (5) But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

No matter what the sin is we have a responsibility as believers to encourage, edify, and build one another up in the faith and the foundation for doing such is found in 1 Corinthians 13. The motivation should be out of love for the brethren NOT to condemn but to deliver and set free.

Bill, I trust you will see these next verses as not meant to condemn and leave a brother or sister who is caught up in any kind of sin whether it be willful, ignorant, or besetting.

Galatians 6:1-4 Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. (2) Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. (3) For if anyone thinks he is something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. (4) But let each one test his own work, and then his reason to boast will be in himself alone and not in his neighbor.
2Timothy 2:24-26 And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, (25) correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, (26) and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

James 5:19-20 My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, (20) let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

Now listen to Pauls testimony as he tells it to King Agrippa.

Act 26:14-17 And when we had all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice saying to me in the Hebrew language, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’ (15) And I said, ‘Who are you, Lord?’ And the Lord said, ‘I am Jesus whom you are persecuting. (16) But rise and stand upon your feet, for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to appoint you as a servant and witness to the things in which you have seen Me and to those in which I will appear to you, (17) delivering you from your people and from the Gentiles””to whom I am sending you.

And this is the whole motivation for God appearing to Paul and choosing him as a minister of Gods word.

Act 26:18-20 to OPEN THEIR EYES, so that they may TURN from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they MAY receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’ (19) "Therefore, O King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, (20) but declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, PERFORMING DEEDS IN KEEPING WITH THEIR REPENTANCE.

As for extending grace for some sins and not others I will say that grace is never meant to be a covering for any sin of any kind. Grace is what enables us to overcome sin, not cover it. The blood of Jesus Christ is our covering for sin because without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. Paul said "should we continue in sin that grace may abound? He said God forbid".

As I pondered your honest and thoughtful questions I considered two people who attend a church, one is a sweet kind elderly woman and the other is a middle aged professional man who is a Doctor and both are very active within the church.

The woman is known as a prayer warrior and intercessor and many younger women go to her to share prayer requests, counsel, and encouragement. However this women happens to be a gossip and shares things that are entrusted to her in confidence. She would be considered a tale bearer, whisperer, and a back biter.

The Doctor happens to work at the local planned parenthood clinic and performs numerous abortions everyday. He believes he is doing good for the young women that come to him and is doing them a favor as well as the baby he is killing because the mother is not in the position of providing a good home for the child.

Now which of the two would we consider the greater sinner? The gossip or the Doctor? One is destroying lives with their tongue and the other with a scalpel.

What should our response be to either of these individuals? Do we condemn them? Pray for them? Extend them grace and tell them it’s okay what they do because God understands?

Suppose one day these individuals come to you and begin to share that God has been speaking to them in their dreams and their conscience and that they are now becoming convicted for their sins. Are we going to talk them out of it and tell them don’t feel condemned Gods grace is sufficient?

No, these sins, as well as all sin no matter how trivial or serious they may seem to us, must be forsaken, confessed, and repented from (Turn, Stop).

Bill any and all sin that we continue in, practice as a lifestyle, abide in will not be forgiven just because we go to church, tithe, pray, lead bible study, lead worship, etc.

1John 3:4-10 Everyone who sins breaks God's law, because sin is the same as breaking God's law. (5) You know that Christ came to take away sins. He isn't sinful, (6) and people who stay one in their hearts with him WON’T KEEP ON SINNING. If they do keep on sinning, THEY DON’T KNOW CHRIST, and they have NEVER seen Him. (7) Children, DON’T BE FOOLED. Anyone who does right is good, just like Christ himself. (8) ANYONE who keeps on sinning belongs to the devil. He has sinned from the beginning, but the Son of God came to destroy all that he has done. (9) God's children cannot keep on BEING sinful. His life-giving power lives in them and makes them his children, so that they cannot KEEP ON sinning. (10) You can tell God's children from the devil's children, because those who belong to the devil REFUSE to do right or to love each other.

One individual came on this forum and asked for prayer and shared and confessed a sin that is very serious. It is a sin that has plagued many in Christendom. The motivation in sharing their sin was to seek prayer, encouragement, and counsel. That particular thread did not receive a lot of responses and thankfully did not spiral out of control through debate and division. The responses and counsel however were in the right spirit and gave this individual no hope or comfort in being able to continue in their sin and that it must be forsaken.

I think we have a tendency to measure the severity of our own sins based on others. Meaning we don’t see our sins as bad as the next guy. Take the two men that went up to the temple to pray, one boasted within himself and what he does for God and even looked down his nose at that sinner next to him.

God and Gods word needs to be the standard that we measure ours and others sins by.

This topic on MDR comes to the forefront not because of man but because of God. The reason we are even in this thread right now is because God has been working within this sisters heart for some time now. The scriptures tell us the only way anyone will ever come to Christ is if the Father draws him/her FIRST.

When people are convicted over their sin we need to be careful not to confuse conviction with condemnation. It is the Holy Spirit that is bringing that sin to the forefront because that sin needs to be confessed, forsaken, and repented from.

I just don’t understand how the angels in heaven can rejoice over one sinner that repents and we can’t even provide an "Amen, praise God”?

In Sherri sharing her testimony which she should be able to come into a body of believers and do so was accused of causing debate. Bill, that ought not to be.

It is sad when people say this is not the right forum to share such things, can you imagine Sherri going into the upper room in Jerusalem where the 120 were gathered and she shared what God had been dealing with her about? I tell you that the record would have shown that there were 121 like minded believers gathered in that room and not 120.

Brother, I don’t have all the answers and I know multitudes of people whom are coming to the conclusion on this topic of MDR are not arriving at it over night. But as I said, it is not going away because God is not going to allow it to go away.

I appreciate you sharing your testimony Bill, I am sorry that your wife is gone but I trust you are at peace and she is with the Lord and you have the blessed hope of seeing her again one day. Like you, when my wife was gone, I was very content in just being with Christ. I missed my wife but was at peace.

You however are free to marry in the Lord should the Lord so lead but again I would encourage you to marry a widow as that is what I believe the scriptures teach.

Again my only motivation is to offer things to ponder and take before the Lord. We are encouraged to search the scriptures if these things are so. My heart is not to cause division or strife but if preaching the cross causes offense that is between others and God.

I cannot speak for Sherri but I can say that I know not a few whom have come to the conclusion and conviction that they were in sin and removed themselves from it. In her case, if she confessed that her second marriage started out as adultery when does it cease to be adultery?

When she says she is sorry? As I said before, why would the sin of adultery be the exception to the rule of repentance? If all other sins MUST be forsaken, why not the adulterous union?

Like you said, you have no dog in the hunt. But are you not to be ready to give an answer of the reason of the hope that is within you to others? If you don’t agree, are you certain or comfortable in giving wrong counsel or defending a sin that can take your brother/neighbor to hell? Are you absolutely 100% certain that divorce and remarriage is always right in the sight of God?

Like you I am just asking, and you owe me no answers whatsoever, it is between you and God.

One final thought is you said that there will be a lot of sinners in heaven. Are these sinners, sinners who are continuing in their sin and not turning from them?

Where in the NT do you find any of the NT writers address one another as sinners? I see where they write and greet the Saints but not sinners. I think making statements that we are all sinners and that heaven is filled with sinners gives people the impression that we don’t need to turn from our sins and that God is love and He understands why one does not have to repent and turn from their sin.

I say this because I know people within my own family who believe this.

God Bless you Bill.

David, awesome "in depth” post, thank you very much for taking the time to explain all this to me in layman’s terms. Brother, unless God has other plans, like you, I’m very content in my relationship with God. As I look back at being married, I could never have had the relationship that I have with God today, just way to many distractions. I often wonder how on earth do married folks have an intimate relationship with God being married, I know some do, I just never could, not like the relationship I have with him now. For me to get into another relationship and know it’s the right person, I would have to see God drop her down from Heaven, and land right in front of me. :-)

Isn't it amazing how God works, although this thread would not be intended for me personally, it's Blessed me more than any thread in a long time I've seen here. Just the sincerity of people's hearts, and the love shown has just amazed me. What's really sad is the folks here that feel the need to make another thread of their own, just to make sure their remarks are known to everyone, and don't get missed in the mix. To me this is really some sort of narcissistic issue with a person that does this. It's so good to see a good healthy thread where we can all come together in Love, I'm really burnt out on all the sky is falling threads. :-)

Sherri, that remark had nothing to do with you at all, please don't let any guilt you may be dealing with eat at you, you're doing just fine. I sent you a mail....

I'll keep you in my Prayers Mr. Bear, they don't let you out yet for the weekends? :-)

Bro. David

I appreciate Godly counsel,..and thanking God.

--------------
elizabeth

David: Clarification.

You said..."It is sad when people say this is not the right forum to share such things, can you imagine Sherri going into the upper room in Jerusalem where the 120 were gathered and she shared what God had been dealing with her about? I tell you that the record would have shown that there were 121 like minded believers gathered in that room and not 120."

David;
I want to say this to you and any others who might have drawn inaccurate conclusions from my posting.

I was and am the strongest proponent of Sherri seeking godly counsel from her pastors and leaders. What came from it later was a misunderstanding or some kind of speed-reading that took what I said about getting the right counsel from her own leaders outside of this forum and turned it into "don't bring that stuff up in here". That is not what I said and there is no verbiage from me to that effect.

I've been on dozens of websites over the years and Ive read many in like-situation where they bravely and candidly expressed their sins and need to repent, they asked for wisdom and help to obey...just as Sherri did.
In most every forum it went from godly counsel to silly bickering about one thing or another bringing confusion and devilish maliciousness to the person seeking for help.
Anyone who has done any real counseling with people in this kind of situation knows this venue is the wrong one. I do not care if various ones pray for, counsel or seek to help Sherri...all that is good and kind, but seeking "only" this venue without the face to face witness and hearing from both husband and wife and getting to the heart of the matter...that is what needs to be done.
It cannot happen here, it is lopsided information, these few postings cannot be trusted as "all the facts".
Again for those who feel the need for defensiveness about Sherri, my statements are not to impugn or question her motives, accounts, or rightness of her actions, my intent is to bring to bear upon her precious life and the marriage godly men with godly counsel who can go deeper and ask better questions that are asked here, from that can come God-given direction whereby her actions are understood as the wisdom of God and not merely the opinions of a discussion forum. 1 year, or maybe 5 years from now the temptations will come " did I do the right thing?" and if the actions taken were based on "yea I listened to people on a website I really didnt know, and they kinda had an idea about my situation so they said "trust God" and "obey God" and "do what the bible says" but all of that left Sherri still outside of biblical pastoral care, outside of godly leaders to pray with her and her husband and get God's wisdom with a witness that what is being done is right and scriptural. She can step into a bigger mess and be hurt even further...let alone hurting others and affecting the witness of her testimony among others.

Please understand this is merely a clarification for Sherri's sake that it is not the subject matter I questioned, it is the wisdom of depending upon this venue to obtain the wisdom of God concerning life-altering decisions such as Sherri is talking about.

I hope this better clarifies what I said and why I said it.

Sherri, God told you to leave your husband? Or was it mans feedback from the forum, or some other place? Anyway if God told you to leave your husband, I don’t understand the need for prayer, sounds like your prayers have already been answered, if God spoke to you and told you to leave. I will be glad to pray for you, but what specifically should I be praying for?

I will pray for you and the man you are leaving.
May God be with you as you seek to do His will and obey what He revealed to you.

Dear Sister
I have been following this thread.. I am not here to cause any division however I do not agree with alot of the answers here.
I am a born again spirit filled Daughter of the KING.
I have been set free from many things of the world for over 33 years. I am thankful for my freedeom in JESUS.
I ask you as a sister in the LORD and a retired counselor and free in CHRIST.
Is your husband in agreement with u leaving?
Have you forgiven yourself? Jesus told the women at the well to leave the man who was not her husband perhaps the 6th???

I know according to my knowledge of JESUS He forgives us.. when we confess our faults. Jas 5 :
WE ALL SIN AND FALL SHORT.. ALL ROM 3:23
The only unforgiveable sin I see in the WORD is blasphemy against the holy SPirit. rELIGION WILL KEEP US IN BONDAGE RELATIONSHIP FREES US.. lUKE 4:18
DId JEsus not take your place and mine and everyone on this forums place ON THE CROSS?? WHAT ABOUT HIS SHED BLOOD FOR US?? doES IT NOT CLEANSE US FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.?? tHIS IS A SHAME BASED THOUGHT PROCESS IM SORRY TO SAY THSI IS WHAT i see..

Im not here to debate. I m here to offer prayer for your hurting soul. May the LORD Bless u.. May the LORD heal you and May you forgive yourself as JESUS has..
Just my thoughts.. and interpretation on HIS Mercy.
Psa 103..

John 4:9 Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.

10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?

12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?

13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:

14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

15 The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw.

16 Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither.

17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband:

18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.

19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

27 And upon this came his disciples, and marvelled that he talked with the woman: yet no man said, What seekest thou? or, Why talkest thou with her?

28 The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men,

29 Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?

In Christ
a Sister
Frannie

Good word Brother Frank! My guess is if Jesus was at your parents home witnessing all this going on, with your mom getting beat, I don't think he would say, woman get back in there and let him beat you some more, you will come around to his ways. No, I think the Jesus I know, would tell your mom to pack up lets get you to somewhere safe, until we can find a way to get you away from that man.

Jesus stated the purpose of His coming in Luke 4: 18,19. The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised.

Jesus came for the purpose of healing the brokenhearted, delivering captives, and liberating those who are bruised. That perfectly describes the condition of someone who is being abused in their marriage. Jesus came to rescue people from abusive relationships.

I must agree with Frank. I wonder why a second divorce would somehow make atonement for the sin of the first divorce? We find forgiveness through the blood of Christ, not through our own actions.

I have many friends who were divorced and remarried, and then became believers. I wonder what the toll would be on their spouses, children, and families would be if they were to divorce their current spouse? God has forgiven them for all of their past sins, not for all their sins except for divorce. They now walk totally clean before Him, and are joined as one with their spouses. They are serving God faithfully, and great fruit is coming from their lives.

I cannot tell you what to do. You have to listen to God. I would say this though. Be sure that you are hearing from God and not from man or from a defiled conscience that is not free from the guilt of the past. But I totally disagree with anyone who would try to say that the way to make up for a previous divorce is to end the current marriage. The Bible teaches us no such thing, not even remotely.

Good word Travis! My guess is she had already made up her mind on leaving before she even come here. She probably come here looking to man for justification, but now she's heard from God, and he told her to leave, she just needs to leave, which I'm guessing she's already done. Hopefully, it was God that spoke to her, and not old slue-foot. What I don't understand is, even if she leaves the second marriage, she's still married, why not just stay, maybe it would have given God a chance to work it out. Don't folks realize just because they've walked out, doesn't change anything, they're still married, so in their world they're still living in sin, the sin didn't just go away because you left. Leaving only opens the door for both people to fall into other relationships, and on and on and on....I just don’t understand why God would tell her to leave, knowing she’s still will be living in sin, because she’s still married, but I’m not going to second guess what God has told anyone.

by twayneb
I would say this though. Be sure that you are hearing from God and not from man OR FROM A DEFILED CONSCIENCE THAT IS NOT FREE FROM THE GUILT OF THE PAST. (emphasis by Lisa)

Reminds me of what Jesus said in Luke 11:46, "Woe to you as well, experts in the law! He replied. You weigh men down with heavy burdens, but you yourselves will not lift a finger to lighten their load."

My two cents... again!
Lisa

Brothers and sisters,
As as a member of this forum and the extended body of Christ.As I said earlier in my post I am not here to debate I am not here to argue over doctrinal differences nor interpretations.. Some of the responses in this post have upset my spirit.. So.. Im accountable to the Holy Spirit for what He tells me to do as HIS DAUGHTER..
I will not apologize for the length of this post because I need to get this out of my spirit..

I have been born again since 92 I was set free from a very religious denomination among other things. These people judged me and looked down on me when I told them what u struggled with.
Since then and even now Im selective who I share with and am thankful My IDENTITY COMES FROM JESUS.
JESUS LOVES US ALL.. LIKE THE SONG.
JESUS LOVES ME THIS I KNOW FOR THE BIBLE TELLS ME SO..
I DID NOT SEE ALOT OF LOVE IN SOME OF THESE POSTS..
.
My first pastor as a born again Christian taught me..
1. There are no rooms in heaven for the Baptists, Methodists Presbyterians or Pentecostals.. We are saved because of His grace. Some of us may just slide in. Some of us may not make it like JESUS said you prophesied in my name and cast out demons in my name but I never knew u..
I Never Knew You..
Matt 7:21-23 "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

I still carry a stone.. My first pastors recommendation.
Heres the point..
John 8:1-11New International Version (NIV)

8 1 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.

2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

11 "No one, sir,” she said.

"Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin.”
I still carry a stone.. I am a retired counselor. I had the privilege to pour into people who were just set free from prison. Many had shirts of tattoos and earrings, nose rings most drug addicted.. Im reminded of David Wilkersons obedience to come to NYC and minister to Nicky Cruz who was the leader of the Mau Maus in the bronx. Steve Hill was a former drug addict and before the Lord called him home he ministered to thousands of thousands..
What I learned they were covering up the pain...
So.. Brothers and sisters. I still carry a stone.
I choose to this day to stop and pour in the oil and wine. I have not arrived and believe we all should be like the good Samaritan who took the time to pour in the oil and wine when the man/women was in the ditch.
Luke 10:25-37New International Version (NIV)

The Parable of the Good Samaritan
25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher,” he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 "What is written in the Law?” he replied. "How do you read it?”

27 He answered, "‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b]”

28 "You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live.”

29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?”

30 In reply Jesus said: "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii[c] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

36 "Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

37 The expert in the law replied, "The one who had mercy on him.”

Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise.”

I pray that this sister is healed and selective of who she shares her pains with. Unfortunately not everyone will love u unconditionally as I believe Jesus wants us to..
I am blessed to keep the stone with me at all times wherever I am.. I am blessed someone stopped many years ago to pour in the oil and wine to me.. Now I can pour the oil and wine in others who are hurting and it is a privilege...
May you all be Blessed and be on the other side.
in Christ
Sister
Frannie

I had this finished around 5:30 but my computer rebooted itself!! And to preface this, this is in no way directed at Sherri. Dfella directed a reply to me and this is my commenting back to him.

David, you are correct that this topic will never be settled between our two camps but I am going to let the Scriptures settle it, in my heart anyway. :) I’m glad we both know that God doesn't contradict Himself. Just to get this out of the way but God did endorse divorce in the Bible, in Ezra 9 & 10, God commanded it actually.

by dfella
Lisa, consider reading also the book of Hosea and his marriage to Gomer

Deut 24:2 states, "And when she is departed out of his house, she may go AND BE another man’s wife." She was the innocent party, it is plainly written that as she can be another man's wife. Moses didn't use present tense as in "her husband” in verse 4, he used the past tense "former husband” since divorce terminated that relationship, it made her legally free to remarry.

We have to understand that Moses would have NEVER made a regulation to cause a person to commit adultery and my debate from hence forth will be talking about the innocent party (male or female) and having the legal right to divorce and with that right the freedom to remarry.

From BibleStudyTools
Porneia ”“ The Greek word which means any illicit sexual relations, adultery, homosexuality (male & female), incest and bestiality,

Matt 5:32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason EXCEPT SEXUAL IMMORALITY (porneia quoted above) causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a her (the woman who is divorced), commits adultery.
Matt 19: 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality (porneia), and marries another commits adultery.

Let me say that any divorce is devastating for all involved and it would be wonderful if everyone lived according to the laws of God but the fact of the matter is that there are many not living according to the laws of God. This is why we have the ability to repent, praise God.

If in the marriage, porneia, has occurred, the innocent party has a legal right to divorce (and get remarried if they so choose). Are we in agreement with that statement?

If the divorce is not scripturally legal, then I think we agree that they cannot get remarried OR they need to be reconciled to the spouse (they just divorced, not the first one!). :) I hate to keep saying this over and over but so many religious people overlook this.... if it is a scriptural divorce, they ARE ALLOWED to remarry.

These settle it for me, brother. I live, breathe and walk in the forgiveness of God and will not let any "tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people’s (my) shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger.” Matt 23:4.

I don't think we are going to agree but it is good to come and reason together. I will post a continuation because this one is long enough. :)

God bless,
Lisa