10 Ways the Word of Faith Movement Went Wrong

10 Ways the Word of Faith Movement Went Wrong by Joseph Mattera

https://www.charismanews.com/opinion/41054-10-ways-the-word-of-faith-movement-went-wrong

I think what Joseph said was great, but its the abridged version, 10 is for starters. He left out the ( or maybe he considered this under another heading) A cross-less Christianity and a distortion of the person of Jesus Christ in the varied ways Copeland and others have portrayed him.

To this very day, I have family members who are enamored with K.Copeland, but because of their doctrines his view of Jesus is distorted, his understanding of God' sovereignty is small, his temptations to engage with charlatans and fakes is manifold.

Our relationship is terribly strained because I consider Copeland an exploiter of Christians and an errant teacher. So after being thrown out of his house I realized just how far this error had gone. That error is so deep it cannot abide the slightest criticism or scrutiny so it fabricates erroneous notions to hide behind.

I can relate perfectly to what Joseph Mattera shared in this article having come from the same Word of Faith background as he did, and I am also thankful for the teachings that are in line with the Word of God, but also discerning of the errors within the movement.

Kenneth Copeland taught us much on who we are in Christ and the principles of faith in which I am thankful for. He also taught much on the Name and the Blood of Jesus. However, while teaching our legal position with Christ, that we have already been crucified with Him, the part of our dying daily and taking up our cross was neglected. Also the warnings of seeking after money and material possessions were not being taught. The give to get teaching was a primary error that Kenneth Copeland taught along with many of the Word of Faith teachers.

The Lord had me along with many other believers go through this school in the Word of Faith movement primarily for the purpose of teaching us how to appropriate the promises of God so that we would have all of our needs met. The overemphasis on what God has done for us in Christ, and the lack of teaching on the dying to self was one of the major weaknesses of the Word of Faith Movement. The Lord delivered many of us from much of the error that was taught by some of the Word of Faith teachers because we believed in being good Bereans, allowing the Holy Spirit to be our teacher, and we were taught by may godly men that were outside of the Word of Faith camp.

Kenneth Hagin in his later years called for a meeting with some of the most well known Word of Faith teachers in which turned out to be a rebuke on much of the teaching that was out of balance. Unfortunately most of the teachers at this meeting neglected Brother Hagin's council.

May we prove all things and hold fast to that which is good.

To summarize why I cannot abide such men:

https://youtu.be/9gbpec1jJnk

So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
1 Corinthians 10:31

Todd, and we wonder why the Church membership is dropping. Could you imagine for someone seeking Christ, what this video would do to them. What these pastors like Hagen don't realize is, not everyone that's looking for Christ, is looking for money, wellness, materialistic things, they're some just looking for a relationship. I cannot even begin to comment on that video, or where Hagin might be today, hopefully got down on his knees and cried out to God and repented before he left earth.

Doctrine of demons personified.

So Todd, you are going to try to use a video in an attempt to to discredit the ministry of Kenneth Hagin. Did you ever sit under the teaching of Kenneth Hagin?

I know exactly what Kenneth Hagin taught and I know that He taught the Word of God and was led by the Spirit of God. He acknowledged the errors of many in the Word of Faith movement and did his best to correct them.

Todd, you are like many that criticize men like Kenneth Hagin because you have watched a few videos, and have probably read some of the heresy hunter articles, but you really do not know the man or what he taught. Kenneth Hagin made mistakes, and I don't agree with everything that he taught, but he was a man of moral character and integrity.

I thank God for Kenneth Hagin and for what I learned from him through his many years of ministry.

Joseph Mattera knew what Kenneth Hagin taught and the man of God that he was, and yet he also knew the errors that many Word of Faith teachers got into by going to the extreme with some of the teachings such as much of the prosperity teaching.

"As a product of the Word of Faith movement in the early 1980s, I will forever be indebted to the books and teachings of Kenneth Hagin Sr., Smith Wigglesworth, John G. Lake, T.L. Osborn and the like. These were holy men of integrity who turned the world upside down with their faith and teaching.

I learned how to pray for the sick by reading Osborn’s book Healing the Sick, and I learned how to resist the devil by reading Hagin’s The Believer’s Authority. In reading many biographies of Smith Wigglesworth, I have always been challenged by his utter consecration to Christ and to walk in the light of His Word whether in or out of the pulpit. I shudder to think where I would be right now if not for being influenced by these men and this movement." (Joseph Mattera).

Mike- I understand where you are coming from. I have been very influenced by guys out of the Charismatic Movement (Mike Brown immediately comes to mind).

But to call what is seen on that video a "mistake” or an "error” stretches the bounds of credulity.

How can men grounded in the word and filled with the HS as you say Ken H was participate in such nonsense as shown in that video and others? He should be thundering over the demonic nature of the manifestations instead of encouraging and participating and "causing” by a quick touch.

I attended a church for a short time period that was pretty deep in the charismatic stream and it seemed like at every service red flags went up constantly over all sorts of things, which is why we ultimately left.

I have found more peace in churches that err too far the other way because to me strong teaching of the word is more vital than manifestations.

I have never personally found a church that could strike a good balance. Charismania always seems to take precedence.

I didn’t know that much about Kenneth Hagen, I remember when I sat under Pastor John Osteen he use to praise him a lot. I’m not saying this is fact, but personally I’ve just always thought that when ministers get to the point we’re they’re carrying on like Kenneth Hagen it that video, they must be bored with Gods word, and have taken their eyes off the cross. Not trying to start and argument, it’s just my simple limited minds opinion.

Mike: I was born-again in 1976; I too grew up in the faith while listening and reading Kenneth Hagin Sr. I bought his study bible back in 1980, I attended K.Copelands believers conventions in Anaheim Ca when I lived there. I had dozens of tapes by K Copeland and listened to years of sermons by both of these men. Around 1982 I ran into difficulty with K Copeland and his born-again Jesus teachings. I thought it was false and a bad exegesis of Acts texts. I had difficulty with their lack of preaching on Hell, judgment, repentance; they were big on 3 main topics Faith, Miracles and Giving. Over the next few years I realized their ministries were out of control. They felt fine with soliciting money from the whole body of Christ, but wouldn't listen of any of the men seeking to correct their erroneous doctrine. The first was Walter Martin...who was gracious to them but didn't mince words that they were teaching heresy. Along came Hank Hanagraff to write a book on the subject and the excess of the Charismatics.
The word of Faith crew just kept to themselves, building their empires, expanding their TV and radio broadcasts during the 80's. In the 90's the gig was up, the general body of Christ knew they were exploiting their supporters...but were too naïve to really take a strong stand against them.
It was not until the excesses of Various TV ministers who fell into adultery that things started down hill. But in certain sections of the Christian community others like Creflo Dollar, Frederick KC Price had sunday am TV spots teaching the same errors. With these came the parrot preachers, Charles Capps, Jerry Sevelle and others. All of these seemed to have no more discerning than a dead fish to the flow of error they were engaging in.
During this time I came against W.O.F. teachings because at their core they were corrupting the essentials of the faith, they were exploiting the body of Christ and were completely unwilling to submit to any correction outside their own camp. Those three things told one clear message, they were unrepentant, were not going to listen and what was important was not the flock but their own kingdoms and reputations.

What should have been corrected was never corrected. The reformed Churches at that time were as dead as the bones in Eze 37, the Baptists wanted the W.O.F to be true but denominational traditions killed Charismatic experience therefore they had to break camp to move. The assemblies of God and Pentacostals were all about the Holy Ghost experience but lacked any strong leaders to shut down the excesses and errors that were beginning to emerge. These denominations were hurt by the W.O.F. because God's displeasure at their duplicity, false teachings and blatant cross-less Christianity that bred a Christian that was far removed from biblical faith and truth.

Doctrinal powerhouses as we see today in various leaders were absent in the 80's when W.O.F were on the upswing.
The Charismatic ruled the TV and Radio broadcast because they borrowed the same schtick used by Copeland and others. Become prayer partners and give, become special givers and get this or that and so on.

We see the judgment of God beginning to fall, the absence of power in their meetings, the excesses of emotionalism, fakery, contrived and false healings. What they were in heart came out, they didn't do what they preached, they didn't live in obedience as they taught, they were living examples of falsehood known and read of all men.

To this day, Christianity is lampooned because of them, God's name is blasphemed because of them, Christianity is suffering from its love of the world by reason of their love of the world...not so much as expressed but caught by reason of their own love for houses, lands, planes, cars, excesses of all kinds with an extravagant living as the icing on their cake.

Emerging from the Charismatics was a lack of discerning and literal resistance to learning sound theology...depending upon experience, feelings and the next great preacher to make them feel good. Add to this the prevalence of the rapture teaching that added the eschatological escape from suffering that their doctrine of health and wealth offered them in the now.

Where were the reformed? They were still dead, with a few beginning to emerge but as yet had no large audience to the masses in America.

You see, I grew up in this movement, I know their leaders, I watched their shows and so wanted what they said to be true. But what I found out...and here's the shocker...I had what they wanted but could not get by their falsity. I had a living, loving glorious relationship with Jesus, I was filled with the Spirit and God manifested healing, miracles prophecy and other wonderful manifestations...with authenticity, no fakery, no grandstanding, no offerings taken, not publicity stunts. I was blessed of God because faith, gifts, miracles and the power of the Spirit were all true...but these used those things as come-ons for their own purposes and turned what God intended for the blessing and building of his Church into publicity getting acts designed to increase giving and notoriety.

In the end, what I have as real and true, they have muddied and as the prophets of old who muddied the waters, took the wool for themselves, didn't bind up what was injured or healed what was sick...but used the flock for their own purposes...they are judged and will be judged unless they repent.

Mr. Bill,

I know that in revival meetings as far back as the first Great Awakening where there has been a heavy outpouring of the Holy Spirit that there are sometimes strange manifestations that occur including drunkenness and laughter. However, a lot of this can turn out to be more flesh than Spirit and it appears this was the case in the You Tube video. I want to freely admit that I have experienced these manifestations, but no one should seek these things. I can understand why saints that have viewed this video would tend to believe that Kenneth Hagin is not in his right mind.

John Osteen was an anointed pastor of Lakewood Church in Houston, that received the left foot of fellowship from the Deacons in the Baptist church that he was pastoring after receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. John Osteen preached the Word of God and had a heart for missions. His son Joel has been a big disappointment, and he basically preaches feel good sermons with no conviction of sin.

"You see, I grew up in this movement, I know their leaders, I watched their shows and so wanted what they said to be true. But what I found out...and here's the shocker...I had what they wanted but could not get by their falsity. I had a living, loving glorious relationship with Jesus, I was filled with the Spirit and God manifested healing, miracles prophecy and other wonderful manifestations...with authenticity, no fakery, no grandstanding, no offerings taken, not publicity stunts. I was blessed of God because faith, gifts, miracles and the power of the Spirit were all true...but these used those things as come-ons for their own purposes and turned what God intended for the blessing and building of his Church into publicity getting acts designed to increase giving and notoriety."

Thank you for sharing brother, and I don't disagree with you. I strongly believe that as believers that we are going have to know how to live by faith. We should not have to worry about the things of this life, but should be seeking first the Kingdom of God, and the promise of God is that all of these things would be added to us.

If the faith teachers would have taught what the Holy Spirit was revealing about faith and embraced the teaching of the cross, and had understood that the main reason that God wants us to prosper is to expand the Kingdom of God on the earth and to have our needs met, then there would have been balance to their teaching which would have greatly benefited the Body of Christ. The over emphasis of any truth without teaching the whole council of God can be a detriment to our growth to spiritual maturity.

I have known men of God that got it right and are balanced in their teaching of faith and discipleship and Derek Prince was one of those men.

I won't comment on some of the ministers listed, such as Copeland, as I have not heard some them speak in probably 20 years.

However, I will comment on one only because I know things first hand.

The author of the article does have a couple valid points concerning the WOF but is also hideously wrong on a great many others. In particular I would take issue with his assessments and statements about Ken Hagin Sr. Much of of the authors assertions concerning Hagin are flat out wrong and patently untrue.

I know this for a certain and absolute fact.

Read Hagins book, "The Midas Touch". Until you do you will have absolutely nothing correct about his teaching on that issue. Nothing. Don't write another sentence concerning it unless you have read it or you will almost certainly wrong in your thoughts.

I was one of his personal ushers while a student at Rhema, I sat for many hours hearing him teach in class, and actually carried credentials with RMAI for several years when he was still alive. I know whereof I speak.

I don't know about all the guys mentioned ... but with Hagin I am 100% sure the accusations and assumptions are a total crock.

I would dissect them one by one and prove the point .. but few will want the truth on that ... that doesn't drive web traffic.

Those who actually heard Hagin day in and day out know these type accusations are bogus. I heard him preach holiness, the sovereignty of God, etc. A full balance of Gods Word. Not a few hobby horses.

A single example from the article. The author said that Hagin said he didn't read the old covenant. He just read the new. REALLY?!?! I have personally heard the man stand and quote literally entire chapters of the old testament at a time without ever turning to it. I have heard him teach and preach from it literally hundreds of times. What he often DID say is that we are now under a better covenant based on better promises .. and continue to quote that very verse from Hebrews. I have no way to know if the author of the article knows that verse from Hebrews or not. However, I am certain sure Hagin not only read but memorized massive portions of the Old Testament as well as the new.

Again, I can't speak to everyone named in the article .. I simply have not heard them in perhaps decades .... but as for Hagin I would tremble to be the false accuser of the a brother that some portions of the article and certainly a couple of the posts here are.

Carry on the verbal crucifixions... but those who do so are speaking in utter and complete blindness and ignorance of the truth.

Par for the course.

Mike, I sat under Pastor John for 4 solid years from 95 till he passed in 99, he taught me all the word of God I know today, and I’m so grateful I was able to be involved with his ministry. Yes, Pastor Joel definitely took a new direction, I tried the new Lakewood for a bit, but just could never catch on, no word being taught, I had to go. You see Mike, I have a lot of trouble reading my Bible or any book period, I get really tired very quickly when reading.

When I started at Lakewood under Pastor John, I knew I was in the right place to learn the word, and I was hungry I wanted to learn so much. I can remember when we would spend 3 months in one book of the word, then move on to another book, he had a way of teaching, that made it so easy for me to learn, I loved that man. I’ve been home churching for a while now, and sometimes I’m the only one that shows up, but I’m ok with that, my life with Christ is to valuable to waste my time in Church’s that are not teaching the word.

Finding a Church these days in the big city, that’s teaching the Word of God, has become very difficult, at 66 I don’t get around like I used to so driving a distance has become difficult. I know the Lord wants me to be in church, but he doesn’t want me to be in just any old church, he knows my hunger for the word. I just saw the other day they’re building a new church probably about a mile from me, it will be completed in January, I’m excited about it, maybe God is doing this just for me, "just kidding” but maybe he is doing it for me, just not for me alone.

I’ve learned today, to just keep my eyes on Jesus, and listen to the Holy Spirit the best I can, so I can be in his will for my life, and remember I’m just an old sinner to keep myself humble, and I’m loving the relationship I have with the lord. I’ve been through a lot of tragedies in the past 5 years, and I’ve learned God and time are my two best friends.

Solomon101...I don't know about all the guys mentioned ... but with Hagin I am 100% sure the accusations and assumptions are a total crock. Carry on the verbal crucifixions... but those who do so are speaking in utter and complete blindness and ignorance of the truth.

Par for the course.

"I’ve learned today, to just keep my eyes on Jesus, and listen to the Holy Spirit the best I can, so I can be in his will for my life, and remember I’m just an old sinner to keep my humble, and I’m loving the relationship I have with the lord. I’ve been through a lot of tragedies in the past 5 years, and I’ve learned God and time are my two best friends."

Thank you so much Bill for sharing your relationship with John Osteen and Lakewood Church.

Back in the 80's I would drive to Houston during the Thanksgiving holidays to get in the meetings at Lakewood. Kenneth Hagin ministered at some of these meetings, and you probably remember R.W. Shambach who would also preach on occasion. T.L. Osborne also ministered at some of these camp meetings.

Pastor Osteen had a heart as big as Texas, and he would bring missionaries from other nations to Houston for these meetings.

Back in the 70's I attended a Full Gospel Businessmen's Meeting in my hometown of Lake Charles La. John Osteen was the guest speaker. At that time I was having some severe stomach cramps, and Brother Osteen had a Word of knowledge concerning this and picked me out at the back of the crowd and had my wife and I come up front. He told me what was causing the pain in my stomach, prayed for me, and I was healed.

If God told me today to give up all the ministry work that we are doing, it would not be hard for me to do. As long as I am abiding in Him and His presence is with me, my heart is content.

God bless you Brother Bill. We are very close to the same age. I turned 67 years old in July, but we don't retire, we just refire!!!

Hi Solomon: It gives me no pleasure to assess the errors and failings of W.O.F. I have no axe to grind with these men. As I said I have read their books, listened to their tapes and attended their meetings.

By the same token I have no hobby horse to ride in beating them up, but without a right and clear assessment of what has taken place over the last 40 years of this kind of ministry, error, exploitation and fakery have marred their ministry by the work of their own hands.

If you have good things to say about Kenneth Hagin fine, I am surely not driving the thread to denigrate these men. But these men are responsible for their teachings and the body of Christ has needed to depart from their teachings in order to center themselves properly on Christ. If they had received correction as they should, their names would not be tarnished with their disobedience to God.

Even now there prodigy preach even more excessive errors than their spiritual fathers and their folly is known among the believers, their own errors demonstrate their willing departure from biblical truth by propagating doctrines suitable to the fleshly mind.
No one man is responsible for it all and the undiscerning pastors ignorant of truth and gospel light permitted their flocks to listen to and emulate these men. These same pastors emulated their meetings and parroted their doctrines hoping for a grander and greater ministry for themselves.

The spirit of that time was the 'mega-ministry' and what doctrines, practices and pastors who brought advantage to the regular preacher endorsed these men.

I am grieved to say these things, saddened that such misuse of billions of dollars given 'for the gospel' never made it past the building projects, fancy cars, extravagant houses, luxury lifestyles and huge promotional campaigns.

We learned a hard lesson when departing from our Lord in self seeking via using God's word as was given to Jesus when tempted in the desert.
"If thou be the son of God, command these stones to become bread". It is written thou shalt live by every word of God".
But we commanded the stones, we used the power of God for personal power, pleasure and gain. We took what was for our life with God and turned it for a life using God as means to our end. We took the bait.
We went so far as to jump from the temple, we wanted God to show everyone we were special, we were the 'man of God', remember angels will catch us. But Jesus said not to tempt God. We tempted God and were let to drop.
...I can hear it now...yea well we didn't make any deals with the devil to worship him!. Yes we did, we got into our expensive suits and had board meetings with men of depraved minds, eager to gain from the riches of big Church pastors and power house evangelistic ministries. We invested in their stocks, bought their sales pitch and signed a deal with the devil. One Church organization lost 15 million dollars from junk bonds.

Yes its ugly and some of my money was wasted by ungodly men serving themselves. But I will not condemn them without saying...I too at one time wanted what they offered and sought to emulate their teachings and desire their audience. To my shame and my own reproach I bought some of their fools gold. God exposed it for what it was and I had no one to blame but me.

It was the Holy Spirit that gave men like Kenneth Hagin the revelation of faith and confession, and two key elements of faith is to believe the Word of God in our hearts and confess them with our mouth.

Kenneth Hagin taught much on who we are in Christ, and how to appropriate these promises through confessing the Word of God. This had nothing to do with the false prosperity teaching that later became common within the Faith movement.

When I was saved and filled with the Holy Spirit there were still areas of my life where I was continually defeated. Defeat turned into victory as I believed and confessed the promises of God.

Below is a typical teaching by Kenneth Hagin entitled "In Him". Brother Hagin did a whole series on "who we are in Christ."

I ask you to judge if this teaching is scriptural or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6OAhUzC6lc

Brother Mike, I enjoyed Brother Hagin's message, thanks for posting it. I've always wondered why human nature is usually to look for and find the small percentage of wrong folks have done throughout their life, but leave out the huge percentage of right. Can anyone here shed some light on why most folks look for the bad a person has done vs the good, I've always wondered why.

Bill I suppose it’s because the "bad” birthed abominations that continue to this day in perhaps a more deteriorated state and many souls are being led down a false path.

Why won’t Copeland, for example, humble himself and repent and admit he has been grossly wrong for years and at least try to repair some of the damage he has done?

"Can anyone here shed some light on why most folks look for the bad a person has done vs the good, I've always wondered why."

Brother Bill,

This is an excellent question, and I believe that I have at least part of the answer.

There are ministries and Christians within the Body of Christ that are not seeking for truth, but are attempting to justify their own position, their religious views and doctrines. In other words, they have an agenda, and that is to villify all that stand in opposition to their agenda. If we are not searching for the truth by the Spirit and in the Word, then what happens is that we are blinded in certain areas. This is what happened to the Pharisees who contended for the law, but rejected the truth. (Jesus). This is not much different from the Republicans and Democrats which for the most part are interested in supporting their party platform instead of doing what is best for the American people. Many of them have an agenda, and they are not interested in the truth when it threatens their political views, and they will slander anyone that is in opposition to them.

There are teachings and revelations that the Lord has given to men throughout the history of the Church that have been hijacked by the enemy through abuse and misuse. The Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, who has come to lead us into all truth will rightly divide the Word of truth, so that we can discern the counterfeit from what is reality.

Todd, I don't even recall any of the WOF, are maybe I should say the "name it and claim it" pastors ever repenting, and coming out of that movement, if I'm wrong please correct me. Maybe we should thank God for the internet, that we can go and search for the ministries we want to support, and get a little feedback on them first. The biggest problem I see in the church today is, there is to little God and to much man, how on earth this continues to happen boggles my mind. Todd, you said "Why won’t Copeland, for example, humble himself and repent and admit he has been grossly wrong for years and at least try to repair some of the damage he has done?" My best guess is when ministries become a business, it becomes very hard to backup, you have many folks to answer to thats part of that business, that can't/won't support you, and telling you your're doing the right thing, and of course the money thing.

You know many lost sheep, depend on TV ministries to receive the knowledge of Jesus Christ, sad thing is not much, if any of the real truth is being preached by most TV ministers. The lost and maybe some of the saved, just watch these ministers and say, Wow! look what God has done for his ministry, if I partake maybe I can have this one day. Small churches where pastors that are preaching the truth, just are not able to afford the TV spots, and most likely don't want to be on TV anyway, they probably just pray that God will bring in the lost sheep. We with the spirit can be lead, but the folks that have not received the holy spirit, most depend on man to lead them. I hope to see a day when a real spirit filled, truth preaching Pastors, start taking over the TV spots, "and they're are a few out there now I think Charles Stanley is for example.

Problem is with TV it cost money, lots of money, so most even good Pastors would have to lower their standards, to bring in the lost sheep, even if it meant watering down the word. I don't have the answer, maybe taxing the church might be part of the answer, thats just a wild guess, but something has to happen to humble the false teachers and make them accountable for the ALL the money they take in.

If you have fresh clean water but then someone puts a small drop of poison in it and you know it, Are you still going to drink it?

That would be why we focus on the bad, because the bad is dangerous and damaging, no matter the good.

Matthew, many big TV ministries are poisoning the word of God and many are still supporting them everyday. So yes! I guess many would drink the poison water even if they knew. Unless every single soul supporting these ministries are completely lost, if that is the case that's why these ministries continue prosper preaching a false gospel.

Hi Mike: maybe this will shed some light on my intent.

Jesus said this...
To the Church in Pergamum

12 "And to the angel of the church in Pergamum write: ‘The words of him who has the sharp two-edged sword.

13 "‘I know where you dwell, where Satan's throne is. Yet you hold fast my name, and you did not deny my faith2 even in the days of Antipas my faithful witness, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. 14 But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality. 15 So also you have some who hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans. 16 Therefore repent. If not, I will come to you soon and war against them with the sword of my mouth. 17 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

Take above as an example of correction, The issue I am making is not the 'exact' sin of Pergamum, but the way in which Jesus understand we have both good and bad, but the bad being emphasized was because he desires a holiness, a perfection in us that cannot be accomplished if the bad is let to stand.

My intent as Jesus spoke so I am speaking in like manner that such error needs to be repented of and the overcoming of it will be to God's glory and our blessing.

The scripture teach us to consider one another better than ourselves...and that does not exclude Kenneth Hagin or anyone else. Yet the apostles were never shy about confronting error and addressing it.
You know all of this, my intent is simply to bring to your remembrance my harsh criticism of W.O.F. is not because I want judgment, I want repentance and life for them.
If they would weep, I would weep, if they would turn I would turn, if they would return I will return to them.

Sometimes I wonder if deep down, some of these W.O.F. Pastors feel the need to repent, but feel stuck because of all the money they have taken in, and the way they have used the money on self. Maybe they feel they would let down all their supporters over the many years of preaching a false gospel. I guess we would like to think Satan has brought them into this bondage, and is keeping them in this bondage, he would be easy to blame. Does Satan always have to be the blame, or is it possible that the person can be the blame? I used to watch a couple of these tv ministers, but you can’t even hardly turn one on anymore, and not hear them asking for money. I turned on John Hagee yesterday for 5 minutes, and he was already talking about the reason you’re not prospering in your life is, you’re giving God your last and not your first. I would like to ask John Hagee, is your ministry giving the needy your first or your last, well if you’re paying all your tv time and all the bills first, you’re giving your last Mr. Hagee. It’s become a sad day, when you can’t even turn on hardly any tv ministry period, and not hear all the scriptures on why you’re not prospering. Maybe I’m ok Financially, maybe if you taught the truth of God’s word, that would help me know God better, and prosper in my relationship with the Lord, prosperity is not always about money, except in the W.O.F. ministries. That way you can have the big Home, vacation homes, nice cars, clothes, etc. I would like to ask these pastors, how many homes did Jesus own, that answer would be none.

//Sometimes I wonder if deep down, some of these W.O.F. Pastors feel the need to repent, but feel stuck because of all the money they have taken in///

Unfortunately I think this likely applies to even non-WOF ministers. For example, let’s say John MacArthur started being convicted that his strong cessationism stance is wrong. He would be very tempted to quash that conviction because of the perceived damage that a confession of this conviction would do to his ministry.

"My intent as Jesus spoke so I am speaking in like manner that such error needs to be repented of and the overcoming of it will be to God's glory and our blessing."

I agree with you Brother Marvin. I believe that God is going to deal with those in the Body of Christ that are teaching error, because judgment must begin first in the household of God. I haven't listened much to Copeland in a good while, so I am not sure if his message has changed much, but what I see is a mixture, because God's primary purpose for His people is not to bless us so that we would be a success in this life, but it is to conform us to the image and likeness of Christ.

I have never been a fan of Creflo Dollar, but I did watch him for a little bit the other night, and he was preaching on the grace of God, and there was no prosperity message in that particular sermon.

I can say this that there are teachers on Christian television that are not preaching the gospel any more. It is all about planting a seed in their ministry, and God will prosper them. My prayer is that these false teachers would either come to repentance or be exposed like Robert Tilton was years ago.

Mike, speaking of planting a seed, you never know someone that is involved with some of these ministries might read this thread, and begin to do some self examining. Can we all believe that this can happen in Jesus name! Maybe God might work on the flock first, and allow these pastors ministries die a slow death, but who am I to know what God may do, but I do believe something could happen soon, it’s just way to out of control in every way.

David said, "There is but a step between me and death." 1st Sam 20:3...Life in this world is uncertain but death is inevitable. It is strange that men treat this fact so lightly, and are so careless in preparing to meet their Creator.

Todd,

That video is absolutely nuts! I mean the people are .... Some folks must be terrible gullible. Sorry...I cannot even think of any nice adjective to describe their shenanigans.

Sandra

"I cannot even think of any nice adjective to describe their shenanigans."

Shenanigans is a pretty good way of describing it!

The devil is not fighting religion. He’s too smart for that. He is producing a counterfeit Christianity, so much like the real one that good Christians are afraid to speak out against it. We are plainly told in the Scriptures that in the last days men will not endure sound doctrine and will depart from the faith and heap to themselves teachers to tickle their ears. We live in an epidemic of this itch, and popular preachers have developed "ear-tickling” into a fine art.
-Vance Havner, Playing Marbles With Diamonds

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.-
(2 Cor:11:13-14)

Looking at Todd's you tube you can recognize Rodney Howard Brown, and towards the back K Hagin touched a black man who is a W.O.F preacher now, I think he's the one that likes it when folk throw money on the stage so he can dance in it, but I'm not sure...he did a jig for a few seconds but sat back down calmly.

What part of enduring sound doctrine do you mean?
The part where someone with sound teaching and the fear of God would tell them flatly they were at best creating emotionalism, at worst inviting a false anointing that mimics the joy of the Lord but in fact is a reaction to validating K Hagin's touch. So many do it that the sheer number of reactions validates the response regardless whether God is even in their universe.

The very thing Paul warned the Christians in Corinth about, these men disobey and then validate it because it's a "believers conference".

What part of heap to themselves teachers?
The part where anyone not conforming to the laughing anointing is 'grieving and resisting the Spirit of God'. But the gifts and manifestations of the Spirit have NOTHING to do with these manifestations. But because they are taught that anyone teaching contrary to these manifestations are wrong. It's important to note that even though Copeland, Hagin, Brown, Capps, Sevelle, Dollar and others use the name of Jesus, read from the bible, quote scripture, pray great prayers of faith, sing worship songs, declare covenant promises, encourage church attendance, encourage faith and obedience to God's word all of it is done with a dramatic shift.
What is the shift? The shift is...all of these things I listed are for you to learn how to obtain the 'blessings' of life. Messages that speak of sanctification deal with being of the right mindset in order to exercise faith to obtain the blessing. Messages on giving deal with creating the life you believe God wants for you. Messages on forgiveness and mercies deal with being in covenant now where the abundant life, promises of health and wealth are available to Abrahams seed.

You find that even in Mikes video of Kenneth Hagin speaking of confession is not cross centered but principally centered on learning about what God has made you. This is true on the surface...but the spin takes it from what God has made you ( in order to walk, speak, live and learn from God who is now you Lord and Master) to we are little gods who can command God, command things into existence by faith, use our faith to obtain the blessing and set forth the path of blessing our hearts have craved.
Jesus is a means to their ends. Jesus is taught as a means to our ends, Jesus is declared a means to our ends, Jesus is not Lord to direct all our lives, he is Lord and King where we go to obtain the riches we believe are waiting for us in his store house.
Why Laugh? because the 'man of God is in the house'. Why attend meetings where little scripture is taught but the anointing is so powerful? Because its not the God of scripture that has caught our interest, its the god manufactured and promoted by men who are using the Word, covenant and anointing of God as the means to build and obtain all their hearts desire.

Wonder why no preaching on repentance...unless of course its to repent of not tithing, or repent of unbelief of their teachings, or repent of going to that dead church and get hooked up with their meetings and churches.

What we see in that video is not some symptom of problems in the Church, this video is a plague, a virus that distorts the person of Jesus, distorts the purpose of God's manifestations and uses the cross of Christ as nothing more than a credit card to obtain whatsoever the carnal mind desires.

This sort of thing causes my heart to ache, its terrifying to me because the distortion of manifestations are only the surface of what errors are present.

Marvin, this guys sermon will take you back to when God was in the church. I promise you if you have some time to listen to Vance Havner in this sermon, it will Bless you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppIZ6FHRJwo