Holy Hip-Hop Music

Does anyone know of any Christian Hip-Hop groups that are honoring God? No unequally yoked artists please. The Cross Movement was strong but they have severely compromised by signing a distribution deal with Provident Music which is owned by major label giant BMG. From 1984 until 1995 I idolized the artists that made up the Hip-Hop industry. It shaped my life and Satan used the Hip-Hop culture to lead me astray. I even thought about becoming a member of the Nation of Islam because many of my rap heroes followed Louis Farrakhan. In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 2Corinthians 4:4, ESV Praise be to God! For he snatched my soul away from Satan. I still love the sounds of boom-bap but not the worldly compromise that is part of the Contemporary Christian Music Industry. I would love to see a Christian Emcee exposing the false teachings of these wolves that are everywhere in the inner cities of America. I see that The Cross Movement is coming to a Portland, Oregon church where the husband and wife pastor. :cry: NO COMPROMISE! Des

Hi DesKJ-52 is a rapper, you might want to check that out.www.kj-52.comand here is an e-cardwww.behindthemusik.comand there is also a christian hip hop radiowww.christian-hiphop.netstay close!William

hey des could you email me - repentcanada@gmail.com or send me yours?bless the LORD,ricky earle

Unfortunately, KJ-52 and Grits are both signed to secular labels. :-( I just know that there has to be a hip-hop artist standing firm for Jesus Christ. NO COMPROMISE! I will keep searching....It took me three years to find a church in my area where God's Word is not compromised. I will be patient in this matter also. God bless, Des

The Temple of the Living God Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord,and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you, and I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to me,says the Lord Almighty." 2 Corinthians 6:14, ESV NO COMPROMISE! True men of God never win popularity contests. Living In Laodicea, Des

Krispy,NASB Original, NASB Update, NKJV and KJV are the Bible translations I use. I had a KJV only elder from a neighborhood church come to my house recently. I was polite but I don't waste my time engaging in worthless debates. I have done my homework and you can do nothing to change my mind about the ESV. As far as standards I look to the Bible. Man's wisdom is worthless and it has led this country on a highway to hell. I'm not perfect but I have little time for Christians who desire to get in bed with the world to do the work of the Lord. The Bible clearly warns us in 2 Corinthians 6:14, Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? Have you read Steve Camp's'The 107 Theses - A Call for Reformation for Contemporary Christian Music'? The contemporary Christian? music industry ignored this call that was birthed out of much prayer, fasting and study of God's Word. Men who stand for God's truth are never popular. Give it a read. God bless, Des

Krispy, As a young Christian I briefly attended a Willow Creek based church that used Zondervan's Not Inspired Version. I quickly found out about secular owned publishing companies and the NIV. You are preaching to the choir. I buy my books from Pilgrim Discount. They're an independent store. Now, understand... I agree with you. I do not like the fact that most CCM is secular controlled. But I can and will not judge a Christian musician's motives or walk with the Lord. I dont know them. I can judge what they say and preach and sing about... and draw conclusions from that... but I can not simply say they are compromised based on who they signed a contract with. Not even Steve Camp or Keith Green did that. Did you read 2 Corinthians 6:14-15 and Steve Camp's 107 Theses: A Call for Reformation for the CCM? The Bible is crystal clear about being unequally yoked with unbelievers. I will stand on the truth of God's Word, not the wisdom of man. Hell Is Burning While The Church Sleeps, Des

Krispy, This will be my last post concerning this subject. We are ambassadors of Jesus Christ. We represent Him to this dying world. Unfortunately the CCMI believes that by partnering with the world they will reach the lost. That is completely wrong! 2 Corinithians 6:14-15 I have seen the bitter fruit that it has produced. God's Word clearly warns us against being unequaly yoked. Read about Samson and Delilah. Phillistines equal the world today. You never see our Lord being sponsored by the world in His three years of earthly ministry. No servant is greater than his master. Matthew 4 1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. 2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred. 3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. 5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, 6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. 7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. 8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. 10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Some people want to live Within the sound of chapel bells But I want to run a mission A yard from the gates of HellAnd with everyone you meet I'll take them the gospel and share it wellAnd look around you as you hesitateFor another soul just fell Let's run to the battleRun to the battle Run To The Battle, Steve Camp God bless, Des

Great thread!Hmm...Working for a secular label is no crime, but is wrought with dangers. Like preaching from a streetcorner?Women Pastors are fine with me if they submit to their husbands spiritually and biblically. At our ELCA church, as much as she is able, our Pastor ministers to us as all the women did for Christ; notice how Christ was ministered to by women mainly, and had to straighten out the men much more often? But I do dislike women with real short hair, so some of Paul's teachings resound with me! :-P Seriously, music and women are something all male beleivers better take real seriously, and it sounds like y'all do...

Are we trying to sanctify something that is unholy!!!

i'm experienceing deja' vu. i have not been on in a while and it seemed like this debate was rolling when i left. at any rate. i'm for ccm to some degree but i also see the product of tkaing it too far. don't believe me look at xx-church (not sure if that is the correct website so don;t go there) but a bunch of pastors are trying to reach the porn addict with porn, it is a very terribile web site. it just goes to show you that ccm CAN be, though not always, a very dangerous "tool" for the gospel. here's the real question. if the intent is to reach the lost, then why do we listen to it? are we listening to the gospel presented in a culturally relvant format or is it we b flippin' the wax to some phat beats that are the equivelent to the secular so that we look or feel relevant or cool? just one of those things that make you go hmmmmmm. . 8-)

:-( like i said...It's very sad but very true as well. makes me wonder what further steps will be taken to make the message of taking up your cross, denying yourself and following Jesus more culturally relvant. used to sing a song in sunday school (anyone remember that??) Be careful little ears what you hear. . . .

There is a growing trend influencing many of our churches today that we need to be cultural exegetes, rather than bible exegetes. For instance, C. Peter Wagner, who heads the Department for Church Growth at Fuller Theological Seminary writes plainly in his best selling book "ChurchQuake"..."Bible exegetes, and theologians in the church should be replaced by visionaries, cultural exegetes, and entrepreneurs...Interesting... In the last century evangelicals have been resistant to formal assaults on the bible from so-called higher criticism...but we seem to have little resistance to the informal assaults coming from cultural criticism. In light of this trend I shall no longer be called MC, but MC Hammer in an attempt to increase my cultural appeal.MC (Hammer)

Zeal - Love Ablaze! By Leonard Ravenhill Enoch had prophesied, saying, "Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones." If Jesus had entered history like that, or had come on a dark night over Jerusalem in a blazing chariot of fire (like Elijah went up to heaven), then the clamoring crowds would have accepted and adored Him. But as the poet once said, "They were looking for a king, to bring salvation nigh, He came a little infant thing, that made a woman cry." CLEANSING THE TEMPLE The local folk knew Jesus well. He was the best carpenter in the nation. But now He had stepped out of bounds. He accepted the nomination of that wild preacher John the Baptist as the Lamb of God. He had agreed to let the people mount Him on an ass and enter the city amid cries of "Hosanna." Now He had stirred the city by routing the moneychangers and cattle dealers from the temple. For almost thirty years He had watched men desecrate the place. He was outraged at their insolence and greed. He was disgusted that they had carpeted the temple courts with animal excrement and polluted the place with the stench of urine. Each of the Gospels tells of the whipping Christ. But Luke makes a very valuable difference as he records the events in the life of Jesus. He says that before Jesus had entered the temple, while He was still entering Jerusalem, He had stopped to weep over the great city. So we have the weeping Christ before we had the whipping Christ. Since He was about His Father's business at twelve years of age, Jesus had trod the temple courts and had always been grieved and outraged that they were defiled not just with animal dung, but with red-eyed extortioners, cheating moneychangers, and cattle dealers. For thirty years He had been growing in grace and in the knowledge of His Father -- now He knew His mission! And His explanation for this one-man attack on the sacrilege and defilement of the house of God is summed up in these words: "Zeal for thy house will consume me." Zeal! What a baptism of this same zeal the weak and wilting Church of this day needs. Zeal in this context is love ablaze. Zeal without reason becomes fanaticism. Jesus was not a fanatic. Yes, His love was blind to all the possible dangers of His mission. This love ignores personal safety, disregards the odds against it, drops "sacrifice" from its vocabulary, requires no crutches, ignores all danger, is intolerant of sin, but not fanatical. His was no sudden burst of anger; He had contemplated it all His life, but now the hour had come and men fled before His whip and holy anger. SPIRITUAL ECOLOGY "Pollution! Pollution!" cry the ecologists about our food, air, waters, and our auto emissions. But where, O where are the preachers crying out against the pollution in the churches? The heart of Jesus was broken over a nation that had the elect prophets of the Lord as its advisors. But who had heeded these prophets? They had not dined at kings' tables; they, like their Master, were despised and rejected of men. Some were men with scorching tongues; but they were also men with weeping eyes. Ah! but tell me if you can, where are the weeping preachers today? The cattle dealers in the temple were more interested in selling sacrifices than in offering them. And so today there are Christians at this very hour fighting feverishly for some political cause, and yet they are never heated over the wretched filth in their own church. Will we crusade against uncleanness in the "Church"? If not, better tell the sleepy saints again to eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we shall be raptured. But Jesus will not rapture a ruptured Church! THE WORST THING IN THE WORLD There are some frightful tragedies in the world at this moment. When "wise" men swept aside the Bible, they told us that we would move into a new freedom for men. These wise men have proved that they are otherwise. Other smart men put their brains together to make a bomb so that we can turn a living city crisp in seconds. Then think of the implication of Afghanistan and Iran, the daily bleeding of millions in Kampuchea, and the masses waiting to leave Cuba. These are horrible things to contemplate, and yet I think there is one thing infinitely worse. It is a sick Church in a dying world. Never has the great U.S. ever been more broken than today. Broken marriages, leaving millions of broken homes. Thousands and thousands of teenagers whose minds are broken with drugs. The people's confidence and trust in the government is broken. The economy is broken -- the once-mighty dollar is broken. All is broken except the hearts of the believers. We need broken hearts to face this colossal mess. Weeping is not only in order in the pulpit; it is commanded! "Let the priests weep between the porch and the altar...let them howl" (Joel 2:17; 1:13). Jeremiah wept over the sin of Israel. David wept. Paul wept. John wept. Shall we remain dry-eyed in the most crucial chapter in world history and in our own? COUNTERFEIT ZEAL The present lethargy in the Church is almost unpardonable. The Jehovah's Witnesses have zeal. The Mormons claim they are gaining more people from the evangelicals than we are gaining from them. The cultists zealously persist in getting a hearing in the streets. Saul of Tarsus had fanatical zeal. He threw men and women in prison and broke up their families, persecuting them from city to city. Miraculously God cleansed him, baptized him with fire, and made him a model zealot for His Kingdom. It is not enough in these days of such vast worldliness in the Church to say that we are fundamental or uncompromising in "doctrine." We must be ablaze with Holy Spirit-born anger. ("Be angry, and yet do not sin" (Eph. 4:26). We must feel the hurt of God over the devil's domination of this age. We must apologize to the Almighty that we have turned to our own way, and have been more loyal to a man-made theology than to the exceedingly sober words of our Master. Like Paul, we must be able to say in His holy presence, "This one thing I do...." I bear a broken heart over the coldness in the Church (including my own!). True, the zealous man of God lives for one thing only: to please God. He is impervious to the opinions of others about his zeal. He cares not what it costs him to burn out for God. In sickness or in health, in poverty or in wealth, whether he is esteemed or despised, flattered or flattened, considered a fool or a philosopher, through evil report or good report, kisses or curses, he is set to do the will of God! This man sees the Church today fouled with showmanship, bingo and bake sales, dances, tinsel and trivia, "holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power" (2 Tim. 3:5). He sees the ministers condoning divorce in high places. Maybe his minister is divorced and remarried himself. Jesus today sees His Church unclean with disobedience by a watered-down gospel. We do not obey His commandments to "love one another," or rejoice to act out Matthew 23:11 - "But the greatest among you shall be your servant." If there comes a man into the assembly with a gold ring, we do give him honor (James 2:2). If he has great wealth but little spirituality, he is still welcomed as a member of the board. We do not insist that our young preacher boys tarry (until they get a seminary diploma? No!) until they are endued with power from on high! THE PHARISEE'S PRAYER The Pharisee who prayed in the temple said, "God, I thank Thee that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers." There are many so-called Spirit-filled men today, who cannot even pray that prayer! Unjust they are for sure; they pay low wages and tell their workers that they are "doing this sacrifice for Jesus." Adulterers - there are famous preachers in this awful category. They, of course, have an explanation for their infidelity, yet many are accepted at conferences as keynote speakers. Extortioners - the radio preachers almost have this as a monopoly. A $25 Bible (God's Holy Word) is offered for a $100 gift! Other books are offered at five times their cost. "You are judging!" someone will say. Correct, I am told to judge (John 7:24). Jesus says, "Judge with righteous judgment." Also I, along with other true preachers of the Gospel, am a watchman and so have to warn others. Also, "judgment must begin at the house of the Lord." This bait to get money is an abomination. Preachers whine for money over the radio and television. "For this ministry" they say, and yet much of it is to sustain their extravagant lifestyle, costly airplanes, and fixing up luxury Bible conference grounds. And now they have joined the Pharisees who "rob widows' houses." After emptying your pockets while you live, they ask for your house and estate after you die. What next? STEALING THE GLORY This is a day of the personality cult. Men on T V. gospel shows are presented as having given up so much for the Lord. All they gave up with their retirement from stardom was hell and eternal punishment. Let it be shouted from the housetops that no man does God a favor. Elegant living, etc. for the rich evangelists proves nothing except that they have not left all to follow Him. The Spirit-filled need no status symbols. The flattering introduction for gospel preachers is another great piece of blockage to revival. John 5:41 and 44 need soul-searching consideration. My heart is burdened and burning. God's house is polluted. The sinners scoff and say of the rich preachers, "Their creed is greed and their god is gold." We need a baptism of holy zeal to get us back to holy indignation that the money grabbers are back in the temple, and that God's heart is hurting. The Church began in the Spirit; now She is operating in the flesh. There is no pillar of fire over the sanctuary. There are no preachers who can hold the hell-bound spell-bound. I am not sure that it can be proved that Nero fiddled while Rome burned. It can be proved that the Church is fiddling while the world is burning! The one reason that we do not have revival today is that we are content to live without it. O for a generation of believers who can honestly say, "The Zeal of Thine house hath eaten me up."

Thanks for resharing this with us Des. I have experienced personally a growing trend towards rewording secular songs and passing them off as Gospel. The latest I heard only had a few words changed. I have seen it follow this pattern:1) They were used as "theme" songs for special events.2) They were used as 'praise' songs during services.3) They were used as 'worship' songs during the service.4) They were used during the 'altar' service.Could the progression be:5) All songs are modified secular tunes??6) Secular tunes are modified with < 4 words?7) Completely secular tunes used throughout?I cannot help but grieve over the "mixture" that is dominating in so many circles. What ever happened to sanctifying the Lord before the people? What ever happened to sanctifying the Lord in our own hearts? Do we really believe that God is just like everyone else and can be treated as "commonplace"? What is wrong here? There is NO fear of God before their eyes. Who was it that said that they would take America without ever firing a shot? Was it the Soviets? It seems to me that we are loosing this battle and the enemy is not even firing a shot. Where did it begin? I see a huge step in compromise when the whole 'Youth' demographic was created. Suddenly they became their own culture and had to be 'hip' with 'new' things all the time. This was the late 1940's. They had their own music and clothes- their own language and mindset. A division came about between the young and the old. Suddenly the older folks within the church saw this seperation and wanted to span the breach. How did they do it? They did it by making compromises with the 'youth' (music, dress code, conduct, etc.). And as one writer said, "compromise carries within itself the seeds of its own distruction." When you sow compromise you are sowing the seeds of distruction. Did it work? Did we win over that youth culture? Latest stats say that 85% of young people leave the church when they are old enough to leave. So we have 15% retention and have given away the farm? Hmmmmm? So as the compromises were made to accomodate the NEW so called "Youth Culture" they made their way into the Church and the enemy is wreaking havoc now from within as the youth grew up and took control. Compromise is now the accepted norm. Always remember that any compromise of a rule becomes the NEW RULE. I have seen it as a manager for years. The standard will serve the compromise- not the other way around.And we wonder why God does not show up in our meetings?

Hi guys,was reading through this thread and caught this (of all things :)You can't touch this and MC(Hammer)Just had to laugh! Thank you, I needed that. :-) In Him, Chanin

Pro 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring. I agree with Krispy here. It is not that I am trying to be judgmental either. Are we jealous for God's glory? Notice that I am not building a case against any one form of music- it is its use during services to enter into praise and worship that has me sorely alarmed.

some excellent points. I agree with Robert on the previous post, There was no "generation gap" in the 40 and 50's. it was something created by a lack of intervention on the part of the Body of Christ, I'm not throwing stones, but the fact is that we have become a subculture. As i have stated in previous posts, we have "christianized" everything, hip hop (which was never a musical form until the late 80's)to rock and roll (which is a term orginating in the 50's and was code for having sex in a car) to dances to raves to the xxchurch i mentioned before. we have a cotton candy gospel with a nice cushiony cavlvary and a bling bling cross with a Jesus that is ery'body's "homeboy". What is going on? When bands like "UnderOath" (which you can barely even understand) and "Haste the Day" are touted as champions of Christian youth. Christian Agnst music? Come on. You want to reach kids today? Be real. The artists that play CCM trad a fine line between reaching out to the world with inspirition and reaching into the world FOR it. It is time for the Church to get well, we can ill afford as Ravenhill calls it "A Sick church is dying world". We cannot afford to sacrfice principal--in order to be relevant. This gospel is for our chridren and our children's children. Sin and the forgiveness thereof will always be relevant for we will always be in need of a Saviour. Let us rise to the challenges facing our youth toady by being not a subculture and offering them mere subsitiutions,stale water from the same well at Sychar, for the things they are leaving behind, but rather give them a drink of living water from the well spring of life-. Let us become a Counter Culture and cease to be a subculture. We are to be transformed not try to fit the gospel into a something relvant. It is an offense. It will cause division. Come OUT from among the world and be a separate people and I’ll receive you. Think about this passage from ‘Zeke the prophet–“And lo, thou art unto them as a very lovely song of one that hath a plesant voice and can play well on the instrument for they hear thy words but they will not do them. And when this is come to pass(and it will come to pass) they will know that there hath been a prophet among them.” Ezk. 33:32 Just food for thought. Let us not seek to be so relvevant that we lose sight of being righteous.

So as the compromises were made to accomodate the NEW so called "Youth Culture" they made their way into the Church and the enemy is wreaking havoc now from within as the youth grew up and took control.What I experience here in my little country, is not necessarily the youth (which I am apart of) taking over the Church, compromising and trying to get the world into the Church. It are the youthleaders, the 30-40 year old guys, who say: "If we don't do something, we will lose our youth" and "We have to make the service attractive to the youth". It even got so far that someone once said, while preaching, something like: "I'm only going to read a few verses with you from the Bible. I know it's difficult to follow, but I'll keep it short."...and afterwards, he told his own story. It even got so far that during the "welcome" at the beginning of the service, someone usually says: "A warm welcome to all and especially to the children this morning", or "A warm welcome to all the brothers and sisters in our Lord and the youth (since when are young people no longer considered to be "brothers" or "sisters"??), or when there's being preached: "I direct myself mainly to the youth right now".I don't know how you guys experience it, but I consider the youth as sheep, being led astray by their leaders. They're not "kicking down" on everything that's of God, they're simply not being fed (yeah...only some pizza and candybars). I think most of all the people in these age-group (30-40) are responsible for the spiritual immaturity of the youth right now. I try to stick close to the Lord and be a light to my fellow aged friends. I really pray that God sends out labourers to encourage these younger people and build them up in the faith.A wonderful example of this, I will never forget was this:In our Church we're introducing "new" songs, just to make it more attractive for the youth. You know what happened? A guy (a real "youth"-model kind of a person) walked up to the pulpit and requested a song that's considered as being "out-dated" and "old". Yeah man...let's show those people we want to know God as a reality and we don't want newer beamers, newer songs or whatever! :-P(I am aware that this hasn't got much to do with this thread, but thought I could bring it up anyway)Paul

You are so right, Paul.The same thing is happening in our Church, and the Youth are not growing in the Lord, in fact,it is so sad, because they are looking for the truth of Jesus Christ.They come to Church to get away from the World, and find the same type of music in the Church.Our Youth are being led by Leaders that need to be led.There are people some people over our Youth that are leading them totally in the wrong directin, and if anyone says anything, they say you are causing division in the body of Christ.The Youth know the Truth from the false.The false is a stench in their nostrils, also.Praise God for people who will stand for the Truth of Jesus Christ.Jesus doesn't need Rock and Roll so called Gospel Music.He doesn't want anything false.If we want the Truth, He will give us the Truth.In His NameNellie :-)

Our Youth are being led by Leaders that need to be led.Amen.

Krispy wrote:Anyone who has been around homeschooling will attest to the fact that most homeschoolers can actually carry on mature, intelligent conversations with the older generations.I can attest to this, having for nearly 15 years managed teens predominately aged 15-19 I can tell you the brightest, most intelligent, hardest working with the greatest work-ethic hands down were kids from a home-school background.I know this thread is not concerning home-schooling, and I have no children (well…. 2 cats) but I have been very impressed by the caliber of kids/teens who are and were home-schooled. You can just about pick out these kids when you walk into any group. Understand this is just simple observation on my part, again having no children I offer no advice on raising children but I do someday want to be a great Father and raise my children to be strong productive Christians and citizens. I admire and listen to Parents when I see they have well-behaved and courteous children because I know for certain this does not happen by accident.God Bless,tonys

I do someday want to be a great Father and raise my children to be strong productive Christians and citizens.i would say that you're on the right track man. I applud you for including citizenship. I forget who said it first but "Christians should be the best citizens" is a wake up call to some. I thnink the age seperation is due to, i feel like a parrot, an attempt to be more relvanet.I'm not opposed to Sunday School either or VBS but Krispy brings up an intresting point about the fact that the book of the law was rehearsed in the ears of all the people. I'm not sure, but i don't think that the Church of Corinth had a nursery nor did Timothy have a puppet stage. (please note my tongue is firmly planted in my cheek)

Here is a good web-site that has great holy Hip-Hop music. www.redeemedthought.com . I actually used to be in this crew they are fresh.

Krispy,I'm a new member and havent really got all this posting stuff down but as I was reading what you posted on 6/28/2005 I couldnt believe what I was reading and had to try and post this in hopes of getting some clarification on this. What exactly are these "Christians" doing to reach porn stars and addicts?

Just a quick "technical note" :PM is an acronym for "private message" - when you are logged in you can see in the left margin the "menu for XXXXX" beneath which will be three links - "View Account" and "Logout" will be directly beneath it - then your private messages links. If you have a new private message it will show up as a link there.Dan/\\/\\/\\

I now remember why I dont care for rap music...Krispy, see if this is more to your liking...Kickin' It Andy Taylor StyleWelcome back bro. :-P It's good to have your smile around.MC

well i shore enuff i didntnot know they was cuntry folks on ths hare mash ene. sumbuddy say oppie? we luv sum cuntry muzack down hare in the bluegrass!

Forevidence, Redeemed Thought looks very promising. Thank you! God bless, Des "Many books can inform; Only the Bible can transform." (unknown)

John 15:1-8 1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples

I think you are right on to check lyrics of the performers your kids listen to. It's part of the job of a watchman and shepherd. However, I would ask you to extend a little grace on the secular record label issue. To put it into context, I work for a secular company, does that mean I'm "compromised." Christian athletes may play for pro teams, does that mean they're "compromised?" I doubt it.You probably would find it difficult to find a book to read because many of the Christian publishers are owned by bigger secular companies.We all can't work for a church or a parachurch organization. But sometimes we can make an impact in the secular companies where we ply our trades.Go with God!

Hey guys,Not to get off the subject of the discussion, and back onto the subject of the thread...But there's a group that I enjoy immensly, K2S. They are a holy hip-hop group that makes GOD the focus of their ministry, and entertainment is secondary. They don't try to conform God into rap lyrics, but instead they conform their raps to GOD. I can honestly say that this group has had more influence on me coming back to Christ than perhaps any church or person. God used them and their soul-changing lyrics to change me and bring me back to Christ. They aren't a group like "Gospel Gangstas" that say stuff like "shoot the antichrist with an ak[47]", they are the kind of group that speaks truth and wisdom, they tell it with no fear and are honest about it. They actually quote scripture in their raps, and a lot of it. In my humble opinion, their first cd "Welcome to the new era" was the best, followed by their second "Better Dayz" and then their third, "the way it is". In their first CD they actually have a song called "Operation Rescue" that speaks out (in fairly graphic terms) about abortion and how wrong it is. While some people might be offended at that, I think it's the TRUTH that needs to be HEARD. Just FYI, I'd check them out. They aren't a group that's interested in entertainment, so much as a group that's real and wants to get closer to God. JarrodPS That is K2S... stands for "Key to Salvation".

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 The Word of God is what I listen to. Man's ways have always led to compromise. Attempting to be a music minister while being in bed with the world is sin! Listen to those powerless songs that are played on KLOVE, Air1 and other so called Christian radio stations. They treat God like a girlfriend. There is no fire, passion or unction in these songs. The artists have bowed to the pressures of the secular record labels and no longer refer to Jesus as Lord. It's sickening! We have turned from Your Law to try to find a better way Each man does today what is right in his own eyes We will pay the price for our sinning We can never know true living, we've exchanged His truth for lies It is no small of a thing that He's done for you By shutting the gates of hell upon the crossWe were sentenced once but now we are pardonedAnd He chooses to use us though we fallSo while we're living in LaodiceaKeep the fire burning bright, don't let it grow dimFor the very Word we swore that we would die for, it must not be forgottenFear the world become a friendFor the very Word we swore that we would die for, it must not be forgottenFear the world become a friendLiving In Laodicea, Steve Camp

Now this may seem unspiritual. But let's just be honest here. Style of music is important to most of us. Usually you don't find folks who like the SOUND of Kirk Franklin listening to Point of Grace. On a positive note, Christian music has grown so much in quality. So praise the Lord for that. To be honest with you, if Steve Camp was still the rage I wouldn't listen to him. Because I don't like him personally or his message? No. Because I don't really enjoy his style. Same goes with Keith Green. Now I'm not so worked up about Gangsta Rap "style" (we're talking about style here folks). But Hip Hop? Fa sho. (Pray for the interpretation if you don't talk like that ever) :-P Now I just have to say that the non-sensual hip hop music and beat is just plain cool. It has an "up" to it. (As opposed to death metal that has a definite "down") It makes me happy. In the words of Kirk Franklin's song "Stomp": "Makes me clap my hands, makes me want to dance..."Now I don't approve of worldly sensuous gestures and club style dancing. I'm against that. But the music is great. Does anybody agree?Before I quit, please don't respond to this with some pious attitude about the negatives of hip hop (That is if you are responding to what I have written). You can save it. I already agree with you. You're preachin' to the choir.But anyone else love hip hop gospel music?RT

personally speaking, i used to be very into rap music. i was a rapper. i have preformed in churches and even in Compton's home town of Coloumbus---(can't remeer the name of the Park but it was next the childrens hospital)i'm coming out of it though. in fact i've kind of baced away from alot of CCCM. i work in a Christian bookstrore (believe me it is harder here somedays spiritually thanit was all the years in the factories) I see this CCM insdustry and every other Christian industry from behind the scenes. like anyting there are some things that are real and some that are not. it is a fact that secular bands that cannot cut it in the main stream START in the christian relam and then end up in the world after creating a fan base, when they start playing in bars and Ozzfest, there are christians that go to support thier "minisrty" in these places. (POD, Dashboard Confessional, Ghoti Hook, ReliantK, Slick Shoes, Evanesence, Amy Grant, and the list goes on)My question to this debate is...why do we even listen to music, is it to worship God or to inspire us or is it so we can dig the beat and be entertained. I refer back to Ezk. 33:31-33. Holy Hip Hop? Christain Punk Rock? Church Punks? WE are reaching into the world for inspiration instead of reaching out to the world in desperation. Maybe I'm off base maybe this is just what God is speaking to me. I'm not totally trahshing rap or hip hop, again this is just me personally, i think that there's a fine line. as for the whole "secular record label thing" that is a fine line too. even if a band or person stays away from secular record monguls, even if they never sign with a label like Word, EMI, or Provident (which sometiems when buyhouts occur, they but thier contracts)--all the stuff get shipped either UPS or FedEx-->not trying to be smart----> which are secular.

Des, I agree with what you said. Passionless, hypocritical music for the purpose of "entertainment" is pointless and degrading to the life of a true believer. This is one reason why I advocate K2S (as I spoke about before) so much. They truly have a passion for God, and their lyrics inspire and challenge. I don't know if they have any "pointless" songs that are meant as entertainment, all of them have wisdom and scripture in them, and make you think... make you want revival. Just my .02 cents...

Des, I agree with what you said. Passionless, hypocritical music for the purpose of "entertainment" is pointless and degrading to the life of a true believer. This is one reason why I advocate K2S (as I spoke about before) so much. They truly have a passion for God, and their lyrics inspire and challenge. I don't know if they have any "pointless" songs that are meant as entertainment, all of them have wisdom and scripture in them, and make you think... make you want revival. Just my .02 cents...

Sad to say that because they DO advocate more than entertainment--they've probably been neglected by many retailers as well as listeners.

freecd wrote:"Holy Hip-Hop Music", I thought this was something that Robin said to Batman.heheheh....."holy Hip Hop Music Batman! The Joker's got a 2 turntables and a mic-ra-phone"

KrispyKrittr wrote:The Bible is culturally relevent on it's own. Sorry to drag this up from such a long time ago.What is a bible culture?What practises do we accept as christian that do not belong in church at all?Where do we draw the line?What battles are worth fighting and which are not?How do we recognise a Holy Cow and when do we shoot it?

I once heard a story of a christian band who play in africa in there usual style the africans completly ignorant said "This music we use it to call up demons" I do not know who it was but sometimes are ignorance can be our downfall, music has an effect on our whole being !!I also heard another story of a christian band playing in a jail and the prisoner said and talked about the music the conversation went like this. Do you like the music, I just like the beat!! I reckon if we seek christ in music as well as other things are life will be different earlier I refered to the passage in John about jesus's word making us clean!! There is also the quote in roman because they did not worship god nor where thankful. Essentially every type of music is worship, 6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.Hosea 4:6Is it not are ignorance that has led us this far yet god uses the foolish things to confound the wiseImagine paul or silas deciding they want to join and be relevant to the world rather than saving it !! Paul did not try I preach christ and christ cruscified to the greek it is but foolishness. Is it not always a battle for are minds and are hearts!! Do not be decieved whatever a man sows that he will also reap!! What are we sowing into our selves by the music we listen and take in!!The mouth is like a rudder of a great ship with words of good it can do evil or good says james!!I think personally if it is as it says in corinthians true or lovely or noble and does it draw us closer to god !! By listening to music does it glorify our maker!!! In whom all thing and by all things into all things are brought into existence!! does in glorify our saviour because if it doesnt !! Our culture needs Jesus it is desperatly needing people to take a stamnd on what they believe because who will. Whos pockets are we sowing!! and what harvest are we reaping!!David says " I will set the Lord always before my face I shall not be moved" is the music we listening to set the Lord always before are face. He also says I will put no unclean thing before my eyes" I am personally decided to listen to just christian music It says lovfe not the world nor the things in the world because the love of the father is not in you!! I love my father so I chose to do this!! I have personally chosen to listen to praise and worship music knowing the roots of where this kind of music came from because it shocked me!!As I quoted from Hosea, The beatles who were hindus brought a non christian element which the church and I have swallowed because we are ignorant. I am not perfect, Jesus has grace!!The berian people searched the scriptures to find if something is true should not we do this with every aspect of our life!! whether music or cricket!!I have found my praise and worship music to be a fantastic witnessBe Blessed DOmjesus will fight the battles for us !! We love himWhether we eat or drink as it says in corinthians do it unto the lord and a quote from deutronmy to finish!!18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes. 19 And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. 20 And thou shalt write them upon the door posts of thine house, and upon thy gates: 21 That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon the earth. 22 For if ye shall diligently keep all these commandments which I command you, to do them, to love the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, and to cleave unto him; god bless you and keep you and may his face shine upon you Dom

I should always look it up!! sorry!! Wouldnt it also to be wise to look about the history of where are music comes from!!!

I think there is more chance that Big Foot is real.He is. . .he's a part of the New Gopel Hip Hop Group "Notorious F-o-o-t an the Good News Ghouls" . . . :-P Seriously though. I too have head that story. For a real story about how some view CCM, David Wilkerson once gave a review of a concert the went to, i think i heard him speak on it on one of the sermons here, not sure which one, but ill find the quote for you.

Wouldnt it also to be wise to look about the history of where our music comes from!!! Deltadom,You're right, it is worth knowing a bit of the geaneology of contemporary music. I think it is important to be aware of these things...to help us understand how our cultural taste may influence our perception of what we hear. Basically hip hop, rock'n'roll, pop, funk, swing ect. were descended from jazz, which of course was descended from blues. Blues evolved from generations of north and south american slaves singing field hollers and church music. (The banjo is an African instrument.) The african music scale was simply different then the european scale...when the africans attempted to take hold of the western scales...they created those distinctive blue notes. (Horribly oversimplified history but essentially accurate)After the American Civil war, after the emancipation, during the reconstruction period, blues was shaped by segregation (like the Jim Crow laws.) Of note, in New Orleans, there was an established tradition of Creole African Americans who were European trained musicians, playing in upscale racially mixed environments. (Some of their brass band music descended from Napoleonic military marches!)These Creole musicians were forced by the new segregation laws out of white venues where they found work and fellowship in jukejoints with "lowerbrow" blues players. This african american fusion of classical training and delta blues was the birth of jazz. (And the beginnings of that undefinable but highly prized cultural description known as "cool."8-))The rest, as they say, is history!MC

KrispyKrittr wrote:Again, truth is what is important, not perceptions.The saying goes that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, is it not true for 'perceived truth'. On a secular forum one of the members of the forum had as a signature 'your truth is not my truth' that has always stuck with me, don't know why. :-? Maybe, in this world, what is truth as dear old pontius exclaimed is really, at an individual level, a matter of perception.That is why I asked all those questions earlier, the bible is ablsolute truth, the next step is how is that absolute truth outworked in our cultures? As a South African there are particular things that make me a South african, but how much of what I do is against a New testament bible culture?Thinking, ;-)

KrispyKrittr wrote:Thats a fact. And churches that rage against forms of music dont usually rage against Classic, country, bluegrass, etc... as a form of music. Only music that has black roots. Think about it and you'll see that I'm right about this.Krispythat is the truth. i moved from Dayton, Oh down to KY and most all the churches down here do your more traditional "appalachian" style hymns and southern Gospel songs. They do vehemetly oppose (most of them) any form of music other than that (to bad the hebrews played hewbrewic music)I was once railed for my admiration of john Coltrane's music, simply beacuse he's black. It leads me to wonder, Praise and Worship, is this considered a little CCM? After all did not it start as "Jesus Music"? Not trying to hijack this thread, but just curious.

dorcas wrote:I really hope this doesn't sound 'cocky', ZekeO.huh! :-? That flew over my head and crashed into the wall behind me.