What isn't "Speaking against God's annointed"

Is opposing a pastor or teacher, who are handling the Word of God improper, touching the Lord's annointed? If they are interputing the scripture from saying what is plainly written, to something watered down or contrary to sound doctrine, and you take a stand against this, would that be considered touching God's annointed? Where are the boundaries in this?

Yes, and amen! I want the lord's approval and valadation. To serve Jesus completely, as I sat in church, wanting so to speak out the truth, when my pastor would say "If we do not have the fruit of the Spirit, who is it affecting or hurting" in me was the loud shout "the Lord, God". He said to my dismay the people, our brothers, sisters :(. This is true BUT second to the Lord! We are to serve and live for HIm first! For His good pleasure! I'm afraid that I'm dealing with a man-pleaser, rather than seeking to please God, and yes this pastor has said many things like this before, taken the scriptures and forming it to say God wants us happy, we are all sinners, so lets understand each other,. because of our flesh-kind of rubbish! Where are the REAL Men and Women of God?? Let me know that I may have some hope..

Every one who says Lord, Lord shall not enter the Kingdom of God, but only those who do the will of God, our Father.I wrestle, and continue to wrestle with this Scripture, but I trust Almighty God to show us, all of His Children, what this Scripture truly means. He will do this according to His Holy Spirit that lives in us.Sometimes I don't want to see the error of these Pastors and Teachers, because I like them.Can only relay what God has shown me.I'd rather have Jesus!God Bless you all.Nellie :-)

Let me know that I may have some hope..If you in Fayetteville Arkansas I know a good church...but I see your not...We have been attacking humanism like a mad dog in the last month. We are trying to get all of the humanism out of us. It is a process for sure... there is sooo much of it out there.

What isn't "Speaking against God's annointed"?Answer: The Bible doesn't say anything that I know of that specifically says that you can't "speak against" God's anointed.Now it DOES say that you shouldn't "touch" them. Look at the context of David and Saul. David was in the position to KILL Saul. But then look at what he did the next day. He stood on the hill and SHOUTED his grievance before the whole camp of Saul. And stated that he refused to touch (or kill) God's annointed when given the chance. There's the context.Just remember one thing. Rebuke not an elder, but entreat him as a father and the elder women as mothers. Follow that rule and you should be just fine. Let God use you.RT

We are all the Lord's anointed. No man is beyond correction and accountability. The Scriptures teach that we are all to submit to one another in the fear of the Lord, this includes those in leadership submitting to the rest of the congregation. With that said though, we should be especially carefull of stoning people with our words, especially those in leadership positions.

Here's a good thing to think about, yes there is an unction (also called anointing) that comes upon us for service i believe that with all my heart. We have earthly authority and we should as scripture says, respect that authority. Truly though we are "in not of" so our ultimate allegience has to be to OUR king, our Anointed one. However, the anointing that we have is, in my best definition, the result of having the anointed one inside. Now if i attack the "anointed" who am i really attacking? But let me ask you this, is the action in question indeed something consistent with the character of Christ? If not then how can we call that anointed? If it does not line up with the Word and is not consisten with God's integrity and character, then it is not of Him. We called that which is not so. i agree with Krispy, if you got it you got it and you don't have to keep reaffriming that you are. Don't hear what I'm not saying, I love my pastor and there is an unction on his life, i respect what is has and is doing for God and would never dream of hurting him. However, there has to be a line and there has to abe accountability and wether it is to me or to a senior Bishop or to God alone, there has to be a space of correctablity even for those anointed--for if there is not then one of the main reasons for the word according to Timothy is lost (rebkue, reproof and instruction in righteousness)just my thought.

G'day all,This topic is such where one needs direction from the Holy Spirit. Pastors are there to lead the Church, but we are also encouraged to obey them (1 Timothy 5:17, Hebrews 13:7). What some Pastors neglect to see (and I stress the word 'some' - not all) is that this command is to the members of the Church. What I mean is that there is no command for the Pastor to dictate over the flock, but to lead them. It is up to us, as members, to obey them. Notice that in the Old Testament, the term "the Lord's anointed" is only used by Samuel and David; therefore, one wonders if a principle can indeed be taken from this term. In fact, Samuel used it of David's brother (1 Samuel 16:6 "And it came to pass, when they were come, that he looked on Eliab, and said, Surely the LORD'S anointed is before him."), and David used it of Saul AFTER David had been anointed King! (i.e. 1 Samuel 26).Last of all, the Bible does predict that some Pastors ARE going to dictate rather than lead. 1 Peter 5:1-4 says: "The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away."Notice that the Pastor is not to be a "lord" over God's heritage, but is to lead by example!All that was said to say this: As the Pastor is God's leader for the Church, his position is to be respected; however, I cannot see any Bible verse or principle that a Pastor can rely on to announce that he is God's anointed. After all, a Pastor is to be God's humble servant.If your Pastor is stepping over Scriptural boundaries, you have a responsibility to talk to him; to show him with love and God's Word what he says is wrong. He will have two choices: either change from his ways with humbleness, or will go further into his wrong teaching.Please ensure, though, that you approach him in a meek and humble spirit.In Christ,Mitchy

"But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things." [1 John 2:20]We are all the Lord's anointed. No man is beyond correction and accountability. You nailed it on the head, KingJimmy! We all should boldly declare that we have the anointing that have the Spirit of God. To say that we dont...?? Do you really want to confess that? Listen to the Word:"But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him." - 1 John 2:27Now I will remind you all that in the KJV when "you" is used, it is always plural. (Thee is always singular) This passage speaks to all Christians. We should ALL have the anointing! If you don't, then cry out to the Father and get it!The Scriptures teach that we are all to submit to one another in the fear of the Lord, this includes those in leadership submitting to the rest of the congregation.Well..No...But you were doing really good up until this statement. The Scriptures NEVER teach mutual submission. It is always "one to another". In other words, everyone has SOMEONE to submit to. Does the husband submit to the wife? Does Christ submit to the church? I hope all of you answer a resounding "God forbid!"Here is a link to a powerful article on this topic:"The Myth of Mutual Submission" by GrudemBlessings,RT

Someone like Benny Hinn tho... a babbling heretic, is not in leadership in the Body of Christ. There is good reason to believe he isnt even in the Body of Christ, but thats not the issue. When a heretic arises, it is important that they are exposed publicly because what they teach is public, and it effects many. Many are deceived by these people today... deceived straight into hell in many cases.I can agree with you in principle. But you have not stated any specific grievance against Hinn. Yet you have all but discluded him from Christ by your statements. Please include your grievance if you are going to blast a heretic.Not that I don't have my own issues with things the Hinn says and does. But I hope that I would state my grievance when talking so freely negative about him or anybody. Let's exose the error and pray for the heretic. Though we reject them after the second admonition, we should still pray that their souls will be saved on the day of judgement. If we ever feel comfortable wishing any human soul in hell, that should be a condition of heart that when exposed in us should drive us to our knees in repentance. God help us all.RT

G'day all,This topic is such where one needs direction from the Holy Spirit. ...snip...Please ensure, though, that you approach him in a meek and humble spirit.In Christ,MitchyJust had to say Amen to your post. Great stuff, Mitchy.RT

but were not all the nation of Israel "God's anointed"? Indeed they were...1Chr. 16:22 Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm. Psa. 105:15 Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm. In the incident recorded here God is the speaker and the anointed are His people. If we take a slightly wider context we find just who the speaker was speaking to...“He suffered no man to do them wrong: yea, he reproved kings for their sakes, Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.”(1Chr. 16:21-22, KJVS) This word was addressed to the enemies of Israel and relates to God's protection of His people. It was spoken directly by God to the rulers of nations and their dealings with Israel. Not only was it spoken to them but the context makes clear that it was God's protective word for Israel and that those kings were caused to obey it. It is often used as a rebuke to God's people by a preacher or leader but it was never designed so to be.It is part of the mistaken notion of 'anointings' for ministry which has made us open to this kind of misapplication. According to to the New Testament all the regenerate are anointed which is much more in line with the original context of the phrase.

Notice that the Pastor is not to be a "lord" over God's heritage, but is to lead by example!did you notice that there is not a single reference in scripture to a church having a pastor?

Now I will remind you all that in the KJV when "you" is used, it is always plural. (Thee is always singular) This passage speaks to all Christians. We should ALL have the anointing! If you don't, then cry out to the Father and get it!Of course it would depend very much on your definition of 'Christian' but this verse does not say that all such 'should have the anointing' but that all such 'do have the anointing' corporately. This truth is repeated in “For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us. Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.”(2Cor. 1:20-22, KJVS)The 'anointing' in the OT has primarily to do with the consecration to priesthood. Aaron was the 'anointed' priest and his sons received the 'anointing oil' by means of sprinkling rather than by a separate anointing experience. The 'anointing' set apart the High Priest and his sons 'unto the Lord'. The Lord's post-ascension anointing follows this pattern...“But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.”(Heb. 1:8-9, KJVS) The 'anointed priest' was the High Priest; Lev. 4:3,5,16; 6:22; Num. 35:25 and and his 'anointing' set him above his fellows. This pattern follows through into the next chapter of Hebrews where we have a consistent allusion to the 'father and his sons. The original Levitical priesthood was exclusively 'a father and his sons'...“For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee. And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.”(Heb. 2:11-13, KJVS) The pattern for the OT anointing is the priesthood where in the same day they were 'stripped of the old, bathed in the laver, clothed in garments of beauty and glory, anointed with oil and blood, and had their hands filled to serve God and each other'.

What then, would be a course of action toward the pastor at my church, who has misinterputed important verses of scripture,(Romans 7:21-25 and Romans 8:1) what is as bad , he's using the Living bible version, which is helping mislead the people. In his eyes as he teaches, what he values more than intimacy with Christ is with each other. Very humanistic theology. What do you recommend, that I can do, other believers are seeing this too. I have been waiting on the Lord, I have been praying and not moving out on this. Thanks

It's talking about Israel and prophets specifically. I believe this is exactly what Ron was saying. The passages concerning "Touch Not Mine Anointed" in Pentecostal circles have long been used to place those who have what appears to be a greater anointing or ministry than others. This elevates them into a category that other believers are below. It exalts the person beyond reproach or criticism. This is a terrible thing because no one is beyond correction. Soon the person(s) get by with doing and saying things and the people just keep going along with it even if they know it is false. My general reaction to folk who use these passages to fortify ministers in falsehood or sin is that it is Jesus Christ THE Anointed one that is being "touched" when error or sin is present. Who cares about mortal man? What about Jesus Christ being TOUCHED? When He is being misrepresented and the like? The finality of allowing just a few leaders to dictate the direction of a congregation or denomination can only ultimately be error. It is only a matter of time. When you have democratic rules voting folk into positions the will of the people is what wins in the end. And it seems that God will give them who they want. I have been in situations where there were 10-20 votes taken before a group was elected into a 'position'. I would feel better casting lots than doing that and I'm not for casting lots. What a recipe for disaster? Vote them in and then demand that they "Not be touched". I have to join with Joshua99 in wondering what the recourse of action to bring correction must be?

not to seem forward or contrversial but i would say that he needs to probably finish the entire verse of 8:1, most people don't they take the top and leave the bottom. "There is no condemnation to them which are in Christ" and we springboard from there. finish it up and it clearifies what Paul is writing about in 7:21-25. (who walk not after the flesh but after the spirit) As one member told me here ar SI, sit down with your pastor and air your grievences. You can always comprmise preference, but your can never compramise principal. I don't see having a dsagreement with leadership and discussing it with THEM, as a problem especially if there is error involved..

A lot of problems with this stuff I have discovered is that we are seriously lacking in our application of the headship of Christ in the Church. The only "senior" positions spoken of in Scriptures are all in reference to Christ. Christ is alone the Head of the Church; He alone is the Chief Priest; He alone is the Apostle (contrary to man being the Pope); He alone is the Chief Shepherd (Master Pastor, Senior Pastor, Lead Pastor, or whatever other phrase you choose).I think the reformers really understood this doctrine well when they were on trial for their lives and doctrines before a cardinal or pope, that they appealed to Christ for the final decision. When we begin to better understand that Christ alone is the head of the Church, we should have no problem with spontaneous manifestations of the Spirit in service. No man no matter how anointed has the right to dominate any Church. Likewise, elders and the like should not feel threatened if another believer calls them on something, or holds them accountable. So as a believer, if you see somebody over you in the Lord sinning, approach them in private and discuss with them whatever error you might see. If the error is in public, likewise don't be afraid to offer counsel in public. One of the elders at my church was recently teaching Sunday school. He has some word of faith/prosperity gospel leanings in his teachings. AT one point he taught that if you die of sickness, you are not going to heaven. Eventually, following the leading of the Holy Spirit, I simply raised my hand and contradicted what he taught with Scripture, in a loving, gentle, humble way, respecting him as my elder in the Lord.

I tend to think that if someone says they have "the anointing".. they probably don't.Amen, Brother :-)

by Nellie on 2005/6/29 10:33:52I tend to think that if someone says they have "the anointing".. they probably don't.Amen, Brother How can you "Amen" this statement? Having the anointing should be the normal experience of the believer. If you think that stating "I have the anointing" is a PRIDEFUL statement, you don't know your Bible. I gave the Scriptures below.All true saints should have the anointing and know it. To state that you have something that you should possess is not pride. I don't know your heart. But I think most people make this statement because they don't want men to think they are prideful.Just remember that the fear of man brings a snare.RT

did you notice that there is not a single reference in scripture to a church having a pastor?I debated addressing this issue as well, philologos. You ask a very important question. An honest look at Scripture will reveal that "pastor" is one of many gifts. Jesus is the Great Pastor/Shepherd. The office in the church that we read of is that of the bishops/elders and deacons. Both are for men only of course.RT

wow, that is actually amazing, i had never thought about the fact of "pastoring" being a gift. why do we not have a "prophet of the church" i would be intrested to see a thread started about this and have you Rt and Philogos expound on it a bit, or if you wanna pm me thats cool too.

Here is two messages that may apply very well here:A Look At Authority 1: Spiritual & False A Further Look At Authority 2: Delegated Authority by Stephen KaungDescription: This sermon looks at the nature of authority and also deals with the fact of false authority. It starts with Romans 13 and moves through many Scriptures dealing with authority, submission, and obedience. Kaung shows that only God deserves complete obedience and that he must be obeyed at all costs. The main message of the sermon can be summed up in this quote from the message: "God is the only authority in the Universe. There is no authority whatsoever except God himself -- and what God has given. … There is so much misunderstanding about authority; we mistake something that’s commonly accepted as authorities (sic) without really knowing what authority really is. … God is the one and only authority. Any professed authority that is not from God -- that is not God himself -- is not real authority, because God is the only authority in the whole universe. … The more you give, the more authority you have. The Lord Jesus said, ‘I gave myself a ransom for many.’ Because he gave himself as a ransom for many, the many come under his authority. If you want to be the first among your brothers and sisters, then you have to be a bond-slave, not only to Christ, but to your brothers and sisters.”

MikeThese two messages from Stephen Kuang are the best thing I have ever heard/read on this topic, and it has been a continual topic of interest to me for several decades! I think he really captures the true nature of biblical authority.

hi inotofwe have discussed this topic from time to time here. I will try to find the threads. Try this one...The Authenticity of Biblical Leadership for a start.or this...Church Governance.