Have we become so immune???

When I read the story I wept, I prayed, I was shocked. Yesterday was another day of infamy where a murderer found his easy victims.

Is God saying anything? To me yes, I see it as a billboard.
"Because you have forsaken me, I have forsaken your children". Murder sprees, LGBT propaganda, sexual perversions and distortion of identity, drugs, lostness and nihilism all pour in and what we see in these murder sprees are just the visible part of sins destructive workings in our youth.

But there is more...Millions suffering in Burundi, Etreia, Mali, The Congo, Peru; millions starving, millions displaced, millions without God and without hope. Ravaged by false religious systems, manipulated and exploited by humanist and communist governments, denied basic human rights by greed and corruption in their own governments.

Yes, there is a great deal of prayer to be done, yes there is a great deal of horrific suffering while not minimizing the terrifying and tragic events in Florida, this doesn't even bump the needle in comparison to the vast devastation found in Africa and the middle east.

I'm surely not telling you anything you don't already know, I want you to know, I know and God knows.

A discussion on 'raising of hands' or the Lord's supper is appropriate for discussion. How do you begin to discuss world events that defy expression in words? How do you opaquely view the starving millions and blurt out a few scriptures? I'm not sure I can. I do pray, I do hope in God. Thousands of words can be spent on a discussion over worship styles, but the subject of a national disaster? Words of prayer seem like the only fitting words.

Not immune, not ignorant just overcome with so much suffering 'discussion' treats it as trite.

Blaine,

You are probably the only one on this forum affected by this!

As for me and my church, we're still celebrating the victory of the Boston Eaglets in the Worldly Series.

But hey...thanks for the reminder!

Bear I appreciate you but when you get on your high horse about things like this it is extremely condescending and uncalled for.

As if those of us here are unaware of what happened in FL. You make it sound like we could care less. Why do you feel compelled to seemingly call out everyone else on the forum? Do you not think we are struck by this tragedy for which there seems to be no solution?? Our nation is broken to the core and like Marvin says a few platitudes expressed in this forum mean nothing.

But if it makes you feel better by making out that you are the only one who gives a rip about this tragedy, please continue on.

What are we supposed to say? I did the most anyone can possibly do, I prayed.

Immune Or are we just selective...?

What about the 71 that died in Russian plane crash? (News this week)
What about those that died in recent train crashes? (News this week)
What about the children who were raped and murdered on video for elite UK politicians to watch before they dissolved their bodies in acid baths? (News this week)
What about the three month old who was raped nine times while being videotaped to sell in Texas? (News last week)
What about the three girls aged 6,8,10 who were repeatedly raped for 10 weeks while their family was staying with a "friend” while their house was being repaired only for the assailant to claim he was a 9yr old trapped in a 36yr olds body? (News last week)
What about the 3,542,000 abortions in the past 12 years by Planned Parenthood? (More than twice the number of American casualties in WWI,WWII, and Vietnam combined! - also in the news last week)
And on and on......
You see Brothers and Sisters we are in a war against evil incarnate, even so I’m not sure that bringing attention to it all here on SI is the best idea- having said that, it’s far far worse than any of us imagines and most people don’t have the stomach for it.... But our God knows and He burdens those whom He will to do battle in prayer.
But that’s up to Greg if he wants to create a place for this type of thing to be addressed-

Very good posts by Marvin and Fletcher.
I don't think discussing scriptures in a positive way to encourage and enlighten each other is wrong or means we don't care or are moved by the evil around us.
Do we imagine that the Apostolic church spent all their time discussing the evils of the Roman society around them, or did they not in fact encouraage one another in the 'word'?

On a practical point of the latest tragic shooting (one of too many in the USA), why oh why cannot folk there see the obvious connection between easy access to assault weapons and these killings. I'm not saying banning these types of weapons will stop all gun crimes or that the guns are responsible in themselves for murderous acts, BUT removing the access to easily obtain them will prevent and restrict these events occurring in the frequency and scale they have been. As was stated recently "Nowhere else in the developed world do you see this happening, only in the USA.

There are many other things that you cannot buy to protect yourself or others. Why not assault and semi automatic guns??

Voices that condemn and brow beat seldom achieve the intentions they want.

I was deeply moved by the events in Fla and it was sort of the straw that broke the camel's back for me. If the good Lord doesn't help this nation it isn't going to be helped even if economic prosperity etc. returns. I was going to perhaps say something but was pondering whether I should or not. I can say with 100% certainty though that I don't believe that those who participate here were unmoved by these events. Just the opposite. You folks are good saints and do not need blanket condemnation hurled over you. Being moved into deeper compassion and intercession for this country and the world comes from hearing the word of God and the voice of the Holy Spirit. We prayed diligently in our home prayer group for the people in Fla and it's likely also that many of you have already been moved and have prayed accordingly.

Blessings.

Dear brother Dave,

There has always been easy access to guns in America and yet these things are a relatively new occurrence, starting first around ‘98 .....

At the end of the day it’s our fault in large part, I mean we can’t really act surprised when unsaved, unregenerate people act like unsaved, unregenerate people but we saints know better, yet we don’t as a whole (body) seem to respond to the problem.... instead we debate and address various symptoms. We saints have become too political in our methods.

When I grew up there was strong preaching on Sunday and virtually everyone had a gun at school in their trucks and no one was ever hurt by a gun... yet now all we hear from the pulpit is "Jesus loves you” and "Christians” everywhere applaud, sending money and social supports. Actually, guns are harder now than then to obtain and even tho it’s against the law to have a gun at school now- yet these things happen with increasing frequency.... see the correlation? guns are simply the symptom or means of an unregenerate person, who themselves are also "weaponized” by the true enemy-

RESPONSIBILITY: Brethren, our preaching will bear its legitimate fruits. If immorality prevails in the land, the fault is ours in a great degree. If there is a decay of conscience, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the public press lacks moral discrimination, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the church is degenerate and worldly, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the world loses its interest in religion, the pulpit is responsible for it. If Satan rules in our halls of legislation, the pulpit is responsible for it. If our politics become so corrupt that the very foundations of our government are ready to fall away, the pulpit is responsible for it. Let us not ignore this fact, my dear brethren; but let us lay it to heart, and be thoroughly awake to our responsibility in respect to the morals of this nation. --Charles G. Finney, December 4, 1873

If you cannot see that society as a whole is decaying then you are part of the problem. It has nothing to do with guns, homophobia, bigotry, or oppression. The world is not "evolving" it is devolving, and human carnality is the cause-Unknown

Bears quote

I'm surprised that no one has posted about the recent shooting that took place at a high school in Parkland Florida. Or am I the only one that is aware of this.

Bears Thread "sufferings thread"

But then I can only hope that somebody who reads this as well as the "sufferings thread" will have a heart to pray for those who are in affliction and suffering.

Okay back to your theological discussions.

One word on the quotes above....Narcissism

I have been so moved and troubled since this happened that I am speechless. I tried to post before most of you did and kept clicking "submit” but it wouldn’t go through. I am just groaning and asking God what it is that He is trying to say to those of us believers who are in continual prayer over the state of this nation.

PLEASE can everyone stop with the sarcasm and jabs. People are watching this forum to see what Christ looks like.

Mama sometimes Jesus called it as he saw it. In fact he always did.

Yes, He did....but sarcasm is not love

Who made up that hard and fast rule?

Bears entire post was sarcasm but that is not what bothered me.

I was speaking to more than one person. It is a tone that is exhibited sometimes on this forum. I have no more to say....

Kids these days are bombarded at home with violence and pornographic filth on television and internet, they watch movies where violence is glorified, then they go to school where they are told (when they can be torn away from their cellphones for 2 minutes) that they evolved from stardust and have a common ancestry with earthworms, and that they have no purpose in the universe. What we are seeing is the logical outcome of a worldview pushed on them by ungodly men (and ultimately Satan).

"By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." Let's remember that the only way we can reach people to prevent these kinds of things from happening is to have a radical love for one another, love that "covers a multitude of sins", a love that is "patient and longsuffering".

"Mama sometimes Jesus called it as he saw it. In fact he always did."

Exactly! And in my own personal opinion, I feel the timid/milk toast Christians are partially responsible for the shape the Church is in now. Jesus spoke very loud for all of us on the cross, what you going to keep silent for him now? Matter fact, I hope I'm one of those Mama is talking about, if so that would be a Blessing for me. If Christians become immune to calling out wrong, well we may as well just throw away our Bibles. I'm not sure if the OP started this thread to put folks under condemnation or for self gratification, but his approach was terrible. By the way, tone and heart is two different things, if you don't know someones heart, you can be completely wrong judging their tone.

Luke 13:1-5 Read
The thief comes not but to steal kill and destroy, but Jesus is come to give us life and life to the full.

This was an unfortunate event, I as well as any Christian would be hard presses not to sorrow with them that sorrow. I wish it was going to get better in society but as we all know it will not. The only safe place to be is hid in Christ in Heavenly places, where we can overcome Satan by the Bloodof the Lamb, and the Word of our testimony and love not our lives unto death..

Have we become immune? Maybe, or maybe not. What can one do about it? We can wring our hands in distress but all that does is give our fingers a good workout.

American culture has been until recent times one that had a sense of right and wrong. We respected others - most of the time. At least it was frowned on that one resorts to violence in the event of disagreements.

In recent times people have been entertained by depictions of violence in the visual media and thus their conscience has become dulled - so we say and we know it is true. However...how do you explain the lament God shared with in Hosea 4:1-2: "Listen to the word of the LORD, O sons of Israel,For the LORD has a case against the inhabitants of the land, Because there is no faithfulness or kindness Or knowledge of God in the land.

2 There is swearing, deception, murder, stealing and adultery.They employ violence, so that bloodshed follows bloodshed." NASB

OPPS! God is talking to people who used to be his children. Israelites did not have tv, movies to dull their consciences so what happened?

Maybe there is something worse coming down the pike: church people killing each other? They already are committing adultery with impunity, aborting their unwanted babies....

Sandra

The only thing a Christ follower should do is pray.......and forgive.Its called the way of the cross. Any time I get caught up in outrage the Lord smites my heart with shame. We are to be known by our love, for one another, for the lost, for our enemies. When I was an enemy Jesus died for me.

So, who here would be willing to offer this young man a cup of water in Jesus name?

Brother David, It would be hard for me to answer that truthfully, since I didn’t lose a child at the school. It’s easy for some folks, even Christians to give hypothetical answers to hypothetical questions, just not easy for me.

Bearmaster,

It's through prayer also that we can our hearts tender and in check so as to avoid becoming so aggravated in the flesh that we throw blanket condemnation toward others in a wholesale fashion when they don't do things or react to things the way we think they should. I'm not trying to be a thorn but go back now and read your original post.

I haven't met a Christian yet who was unmoved or callous to the events in Fla. Our entire congregation took time in the service this morning to fervently pray for those people and their families and we have been praying even before the serviced this morning. I don't know these Christians who are supposedly unmoved just because they haven't posted about it.

"The American church does not want to hear about suffering or tragedy”.

Mr. Bear, do your have some statistics to back up that? Why do you always have to paint with such a broad brush? Why don’t you just come out and say how much you hate the Christians/Church in America, you’ve done everything you can to say this, just go ahead and say it, we will forgive your Ignorance.

/David, Sermonindex is simply a microcosm of the American church. Sermonindex does not want to hear about suffering and tragedy. The American church does not want to hear about suffering and tragedy./

I disagree.

Those are your thoughts bear. I just would encourage you to not throw out such blanket one size fits all condemnation as you do at times good bro. Having a chip on one's shoulder and an axe to grind toward the American church can be the result of your own fleshly aggravation that manifests itself in words of condemnation and guilt rather than godly edifying toward the goal of deeper intercession. No one is against your calling and burden. Just because you don't see it happening as you feel it should happens in most if not all ministries.

Blessings.

Thanks Brother David, I wish I could have responded with that much grace, but I’m a part of that church that Bear seems to always stereotype, so I guess my flesh gets the best of me at times.

The reason some of us are struggling with our walk with Christ, is because we’re trying to be perfect through our own human efforts, and not allowing the Holy Spirit to work in us.

I’m going to stop responding to you in this thread after this. Bear you’re from one extreme to the other, please point out where anyone here said the American church is perfect. Look I don’t know what you’re trying to prove, but something is wrong with someone spiritually, that just "continues” to degrade the church. Just remember this, they’re some of us here that are saved, and according to my Bible, it says the spirit comes to reside in us, so go ahead and cut the church which is the people, but remember you’re also cutting the spirit in us. Have a wonderful evening, unless you have other plans.

"We have had prophetic warnings from men such as David Wilkerson, Paul Washer, A W Tozer and others."

Here's one of those warnings from AWT -

The only power God recognizes in His Church, is the power of His Spirit. Whereas the only power actually recognized today by the majority of evangelicals, is the power of man. God does His work by the operation of the Spirit--while Christian leaders attempt to do theirs by the power of trained intellect. Bright personality, has taken the place of the divine influence. But only what is done through the Eternal Spirit, will abide eternally.

For centuries the Church stood solidly against every form of worldly entertainment, recognizing it for what it was:
a device for wasting time,
a refuge from the disturbing voice of conscience,
a scheme to divert attention from moral accountability.
But of late she appears to have decided that if she cannot conquer the great god entertainment--she may as well join forces with him and make what use she can of his power.

Christianity is so entangled with the world, that millions never guess how radically they have missed the New Testament pattern. Compromise is everywhere!

Evangelical Christianity is now tragically below the New Testament standard.
Worldliness is an accepted part of our way of life.
Our religious mood is social, instead of spiritual.
We have lost the art of worship.
We are not producing saints.
Our models are successful business men, celebrated athletes and theatrical personalities.
We carry on our religious activities after the methods of the modern advertiser.
Our homes have been turned into theaters.
Our literature is shallow, and our hymnody borders on sacrilege.
And scarcely anyone appears to care!

Again bear,

No one opposes your calling and your ministry to call the church to deeper intercession for the persecuted church. Yet one of the stumbling blocks in specific ministries saints feel called to is that they begin to see everything through the eyes of their calling only. Their view can become that if other members of the body are not doing exactly what I am doing something is wrong with them and they are missing it. Some pastors experience seasons where they become aggravated in their flesh at their congregation because it is not progressing to deeper maturity like they think it should be. Then, like Moses striking the rock out of aggravation at his congregation in the wilderness, they begin to lash out and condemn the very people they are called to shepherd. As nice as I can say it, the issue that has been raised here is how you berate, brow beat and condemn those who don't see or do things the very same way you see and do things when it comes to intercession for the persecuted brethren. In spite of all the good it has done and is doing, your calling seems to have effected you in a negative way and put a hostile chip on your shoulder. It can be seen in the way you address others at times. Your OP was way rude and full of untrue assumptions. It's too bad that at times spiritual warriors can become wounded warriors. I think you are so aggravated and have become so ready to condemn the American church that you have become wounded in a way. Your ministry is working against you to a degree. I remember When Pres Trump was elected you said that the American church had forfeited its right to heaven because it voted for him over the other candidate. These type of accusations and others like them need to stop bro. These very things that aggravate you so much should be taken to the Lord in prayer and intercession also. Wisdom and the calling of the Holy Spirit to depend on His ability dictates a higher way. You yourself and your all important calling in the body of Christ are far too important for your ministry to get the best of you. I would consider examining myself and see if there be any hurtful way in you. A brother I esteem not so long ago pointed out to me a negative way in which I was treating others though I was doing it inadvertently. It ended up being painful for me to have to examine myself but he was right and his pointing this out to me has since borne good fruit. Striking the rock misrepresented God and cost Moses. Continual striking the rock shows a area in people that has got them instead of them having it. Just consider some of these things because if the American church has become your enemy then your ministry has wounded you. There is a danger of sorts when one carries the true burden of the Lord and it becomes a source of aggravation toward everyone when they don't respond quickly and automatically the way we think they should as it relates to what we carry and how we see things. Ministry can build but ministry can wound good bro. It's my opinion if you get rid of your apparent woundedness you will be much better and better able to build. He which began a good work in the American church is well able to complete it. You are very valuable to the good Lord above.

Blessings, peace and may the good Lord above anoint you afresh.

My comments were not mainly about whether one is a prophet or not and able to see what is happening in the world and America.

My comments were directed at the attitude and untrue assumptions you have displayed many times toward others.

God bless.

Bear it is obvious that you are the only one who cannot see the things about yourself that David has outlined.

As to your point about the eclipse, is it necessary for me to go back through history and enumerate every tragedy, weather event, war, catastrophe, explosion etc?

There is nothing new under the sun.

I wholeheartedly agree that America is in crisis but it has nothing to do with the eclipse. It has to do with what Tozer said that was recently quoted by Savannah.

//And how many more tragedies will it take before this forum wakes up//

What would you have the forum do, and how do you know they are not doing it, or how will you know if they are?

I could write panicky posts with the best of them if I was so inclined.

Agreed, something is in fact "going down” and the Lord has His people in key positions to bring about His will. Just because we don’t see it doesn’t mean it’s not happening. All it takes to see is the proper narrative, the mind of Christ provides this:)
There is quite a movement behind the scenes, as it were, that will come into full view of the public- each person will have the choice to know the truth, but the end is not for everyone ~

The decisions to bring the truth into full view are based on containment of the enemy’s desperate attempts to create diversions through attacks. It’s like diffusing a bomb. The safety and well being of others is of great concern. This is not game, and when the dust settles it will be known that the events leading up to and involving this movement were not a coincidence.

While America may be the stage upon which this plays out it is certainly not the only location involved or at stake.

Pray for our leaders:)

\t
1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Cynicism does the heavy lifting for unbelief.
When unbelief is in the heart it shows up in various ways.
Unbelief leaves Jesus out of the equation, circumstance or situation. It cannot involve Jesus because it does not know Jesus.

How does this translate into Christian-prophetic calling?
I share this as I see it and I only see bits and pieces.

The prophetic calling points out the errors and sins of God's people and the unbelieving community. It discerns the events, spirit, attitudes, reactions from God's point of view. We might well see victory from the prophet in the face of tragedy. We might see defeat from the prophet in the face of sure victory. The prophetic spirit is called upon to discern, bring into focus a meaning, a pattern or a working of God in seeming unrelated and unintelligible events. The people of God for the most part live facing their circumstances from the 3 foot level, they are face to face and hand to hand with the difficulties, trials or blessings they meet with.

The prophetic man see it from the 10,000 foot level, noting that God's working is involving what appears to be defeat and what appears to be victory in ways we cannot discern in hand-to-hand situations. The prophetic man with this anointing is called upon to direct the Lord's people away from Satanic attack, or in some cases to direct them straight into the battle. But this must be done by a man who is focused upon the God of the battle, our God who is able to battle and able to comfort in all situations.

In contradistinction, the cynic has no 10,000 foot view, his view is contrived from a survey of the land, he sees giants and sees sin, therefore he preaches doom. But his doom is not from the Lord, it is from his own unbelief.
The cynic cannot take the people of God forward because unbelief has more sway, more credibility in his mind than Jesus who can and will direct his people. Jesus is in no way panicked, the prophet may fret, he may grow weary and he may stumble in a race with the footmen. But the prophetic man will recognize his cynicism has no prophetic power, it has no unction to motive the people to fear or to bless God, it can only predict what is in the heart...more unbelief. The prophetic man will hate cynicism in himself and recognize it to be false, a counterfeit anointing that is purely self-derived. Cynicism is a coping method, it is afraid of what will occur an what may happen to him/her so instead of true hope rising to the surface it remains depressed, despairing of true victory.
Why? Because unbelief is at the heart of cynicism. God is not revealing himself to that man. He may well be saved and have God's spirit for sure, but he/she cannot lift the burdens of others because unbelief cripples strength.

Cynicism projects itself upon others. It fears, therefore all fear, it has unbelief, therefore all are unbelieving. It cannot see God, therefore others do not and will not see God either. God is removed from the equation in practice while in word he may be in every sentence.

If the prophets and the priests cannot hear God, cannot see God working, cannot offer the people of God a true vision of God..."who has been in my presence" they are utterly incapable of giving hope and courage where the time has come for hope and courage.

I am guilty of all of the above and I repent of it, I confess it and I pray God have mercy upon me. God have mercy upon all of us for cynicism seeks to demolish any hope of God's revival and God's victory among his people.

Perhaps this topic should be entitled:

"A Christian Response to Media".

I say that because the Media can put a heavy weight on us; and this thread raises that very issue.

We so easily allow Media to shape our reactions and determine our mental focus. The media leaves us in a perpetual "crisis" mode - and that's bad for us.

A scripture comes to mind: "Love your neighbour". It may be that I know less about the grief and pain of my own neighbours and loved ones than about those from a "far land" presented to me by the Media - those I cannot ever touch tangibly with love... because, after all, I am not the omnipotent God.

Diane, I agree! social media is some of the worst media. I personally don't watch any TV news, I'm on Twitter but not Facebook, and only a member of a couple forums, this being one of them. I have personally witnessed some of my good friends, that used to have wonderful attitudes, become hateful people after joining Facebook and other social media sites. I'm not condoning or condemning Facebook, it's just not for me. Personally I feel, the greatest tragedy this country has ever suffered since it's conception, is that we have set idle and let our Government and MSM and Social Media turn Americans against each other right before our eyes, this is real terrorism, just read the definition of terrorism. Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee, because he trust in thee. Isaiah 26:3

I have followed this thread with a degree of interest. On one hand there seems to be voices who are speaking judgement without hope as a means for a wake up call, really not a good idea and not at all the biblical pattern. I like wha Diane posted because that hits the target, love your neighbor as yourself, for how can we love those afar off,those we have not seen, if we can’t love those we have seen. I will say it again, there is fresh oil for the ones who are willing to reach across the street, to a neighbor, to a neighborhood,to a city,for the sake of Christ. I appreciate people here like Mr Bill who use his business to show Christ, in essence that is Jesus Christ, a Savior better felt than telt as the saying goes.

There is a great deal of wisdom on this board, this is the only one I have ever followed and or participated in. I would caution against blanket statements because a brother offended is harder to win than a walled city. As for the judgements coming to America, I have lived with them burning in my soul for more than 30 years, I see them in my sleep watch them when I wake. I have spent a lifetime praying for this country as have many on this forum, some like Ginny. There are no easy answers and to say we need revival is to really say the obvious, no prophetic insite there. It’s time to be Christ where we are in doing the next thing The Lords about..

Blaine said: "I find it too coincidental to say that the above tragedies are merely random events. God is speaking to us through His judgments. The question is are we listening?"

Brother, have you ever read the Book of Daniel and/or Ezekiel/Jeremiah at the same time?

Take notice of the fact that Daniel through out the book gives us the 10,000 foot view, seeing kingdoms coming and going, kings rising and falling, God's people saved and vindicated, God's coming Messiah making an end of Sin and the sacrifice for sin. Judgment upon Kings, decrees of God made against some pagan kings; and other pagan kings declaring the might, power, dominion and mercies of God. Some pagan kings humbled and then put to death, others humbled like and animal and yet restored.

Jeremiah, face to face with sinful kings, a sinful nation, false prophets, false priests, leaders who are corrupt.
The power of falsehood to corrupt a nation and all the dirt and pain suffered by God's people. Idols named and condemned, kings named and condemned, great pagan nations named and judged, yet, new covenants promised, new life prophesied, new hope and new beginnings decreed.

You see one prophet in the thick of the sins of God's people and another prophet in the thick of the foolishness and vanity of pagan kings. You see God's grace upon the obedient man, you see God's kindness toward the worst of sinners who are also God's people.

Here are two yea three books that show God working simultaneously with God's people to redeem them yet judge them for their sins. God's sending prophets to warn and to welcome the repentant, and yet promises made that God's people will know him obey him and serve him forevermore.

We are no different, we are not so much as a millimeter away from the sovereign hand of God and yet the lost feel a million miles away from God. Jesus Christ dwells in his people and yet so many of his people are affected with the worldly attitudes and sinful desires of the pagans around all of us.
God is this moment, I believe with all my heart making a pure spotless bride, making his people holy, separating unto himself a holy people desirous of God's presence and willing to lay down their lives for the lost.

When they killed John the Baptist what did Jesus do? He continued to show compassion on a blind and foolish people because his demonstration of who the Father is and who the Son is was not finished. We are not finished no matter how bad things get. In fact, looking at the persecuted Church, I see how serious they are about Jesus Christ, we too have no less the Spirit of God to demonstrate the love and power of God through us.

I can prophecy the wages of sin is death and I would be 100% right, I can prophecy the blessings and promises of God and the loving fatherliness of our God and I would be 100% right.

There are 7 cited events where people were killed or died due to the extremes of this present world. There were probably a 1000 such events the world over and God attended everyone of them. What matters is not that we can repeat the horrible news of calamity, what matter is "What is God saying"? Well, I do want to know what God is saying in these calamities. If you were to say judgment, I would say I agree, but is judgment God's last word in those events? Not according to any prophet I read in scripture.

The end of an event maybe pain, death and calamity. But the end of God's lesson is more than the event itself, it must be the wisdom of God revealed in his word rightly applied to the events of life to give sense and meaning to extremely painful tragedy. I want to know the meaning in some small way to build where God has judged and torn down.
I am not in contradiction, What God destroyed by Babylon, God had rebuilt under Cyrus, God is never finished with his work in the world merely because an event shocked us in its degree of suffering. God is everyday working toward the final redemption work through Jesus Christ.

Everyday is a day of God's continued working in his own beloved Church, even one so tainted by its culture. God has a way of fixing the problems we make for ourselves. Humanism, capitalism, communism or any other ism will not impeded what we both desire deep in our hearts...God's glory and love expressed in the world through God's people.

All of this has happened since the eclipse.

One asks Blaine,

"What would you have the forum do..."

I think Blaine's answer would be this WORD from his post;

"Go, my people, enter your rooms and shut the doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until his wrath has passed by. Is. 26:20"

https://youtu.be/Yrxabl6_MV0

33 Verses to Remind Us - We Do Not Have to Fear:

1. "So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.” Isaiah 41:10

2. "When I am afraid, I put my trust in you.” Psalm 56:3

3. "Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.” Philippians 4:6-7

4. "Peace is what I leave with you; it is my own peace that I give you. I do not give it as the world does. Do not be worried and upset; do not be afraid.” John 14:27

5. "For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.” 2 Timothy 1:7

6. "There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.” 1 John 4:18

7. "When anxiety was great within me, your consolation brought joy to my soul.” Psalm 94:19

8. "But now, this is what the Lord says…Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have summoned you by name; you are mine.” Isaiah 43:1

9. "An anxious heart weighs a man down, but a kind word cheers him up.” Proverbs 12:25

10. "Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.” Psalm 23:4

11. "Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be terrified; do not be discouraged, for the Lord your God will be with you wherever you go.” Joshua 1:9

12. "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.” Matthew 6:34

13. "Humble yourselves, then, under God’s mighty hand, so that he will lift you up in his own good time. Leave all your worries with him, because he cares for you.” 1 Peter 5:6-7

14. "Tell everyone who is discouraged, Be strong and don’t be afraid! God is coming to your rescue…” Isaiah 35:4

15. "Do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear. Life is more than food, and the body more than clothes. Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds! Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life? Since you cannot do this very little thing, why do you worry about the rest?” Luke 12:22-26

16. "The Lord is my light and my salvation””whom shall I fear? The Lord is the stronghold of my life””of whom shall I be afraid?” Psalm 27:1

17. "Cast your cares on the Lord and he will sustain you; he will never let the righteous fall.” Psalm 55:22

18. "Immediately he spoke to them and said, 'Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.'” Mark 6:50

19. "Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid or terrified because of them, for the Lord your God goes with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you.” Deuteronomy 31:6

20. "'For I am the Lord, your God, who takes hold of your right hand and says to you, Do not fear; I will help you. Do not be afraid, for I myself will help you,' declares the Lord, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.” Isaiah 41:13-14

21. "God is our refuge and strength, an ever-present help in trouble.” Psalm 46:1

22. "The Lord is with me; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me? The Lord is with me; he is my helper.” Psalm 118:6-7

23. "Fear of man will prove to be a snare, but whoever trusts in the Lord is kept safe.” Proverbs 29:25

24. "He got up, rebuked the wind and said to the waves, "Quiet! Be still!” Then the wind died down and it was completely calm. He said to his disciples, "Why are you so afraid? Do you still have no faith?” Mark 4:39-40

25. "The angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear him, and he delivers them.” Psalm 34:7

26. "But even if you suffer for doing what is right, God will reward you for it. So don’t worry or be afraid of their threats.” 1 Peter 3:14

27. "I prayed to the Lord, and he answered me. He freed me from all my fears.” Psalm 34:4

28. "Do not be afraid of them; the Lord your God himself will fight for you.” Deuteronomy 3:22

29. "Then he placed his right hand on me and said: 'Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.'” Revelation 1:17

30. "Jesus told him, ‘Don’t be afraid; just believe.’” Mark 5:36

31. "And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God’s love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow””not even the powers of hell can separate us from God’s love.” Romans 8:38-39

32. "The Lord your God is in your midst, A victorious warrior. He will exult over you with joy, He will be quiet in His love, He will rejoice over you with shouts of joy.” Zephaniah 3:17

33. "He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty. I will say of the Lord, "He is my refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust.”…He will cover you with his feathers, and under his wings you will find refuge; his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart. You will not fear the terror of night, nor the arrow that flies by day, nor the pestilence that stalks in the darkness, nor the plague that destroys at midday. A thousand may fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, but it will not come near you…For he will command his angels concerning you, to guard you in all your ways…"Because he loves me,” says the Lord, "I will rescue him; I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name. He will call upon me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble, I will deliver him and honor him…” from Psalm 91:1-16

Be assured, He is with you in whatever you face, in the turmoil and struggles, amidst the anxious thoughts and the worries of life. He is there, strengthening, helping, and He holds you in His hands.

God is greater. He gives us the power to live courageously, boldly, fearlessly in this life, when many things that surround us would tell us to be afraid. His truth whispers strong and sure to the deepest core of our spirits.

"Do not fear.”

All of that stuff on your mind? Give it to Him ”“ again. Replace those fearful thoughts with His words of truth. And sleep in peace tonight. He knows what concerns you, He’s got you covered.

33x thanks for the reminder Mr. Bill. It is certainly a comfort!

One more though, which ought not be ignored, lest wicked men and the lukewarm in the pew become more and more at ease in zion;

"But I'll tell you whom to fear. Fear God, who has the power to kill you and then throw you into hell. Yes, He's the one to fear." Luke 12:5

We all know that, "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction."
Proverbs 1:7

Brethren,

Instead of tackling each other why do we not make a proper study of God's judgement and share the findings on a separate thread (especially those who are experienced in the Scriptures) Surely one cannot willy nilly quote scriptures from the OT and broadly apply them to us now, in the NT dispensation?

Questions to be answered: What is God's judgement?
When does He judge? Who does He judge? Difference between historic judgement on His people Israel in the OT and judgement now and of course the judgement to come?

Does He judge the world now or only the church?

Often the scriptures speak of bringing judgement on ourselves (as in the homosexual lifestyle etc)

Eg. the scriptures say Jesus will return and then judge the nations in righteousness

What about the statement: " Mercy triumphs over judgement"?

Jesus said the Holy Spirit will convict of righteousness, sin and judgement...because they believe not. This IS the judgement, not believing...?

Dive in, beloved brethren, and let the wisdom of the Spirit prevail!

Blessings,

Satan's primary weapon against humanity is guilt. Be very careful against anyone or anything that makes you feel guilty; it does not come from God. The Holy Spirit [convicts] the world of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment" (John 16:8) - but that is different from guilt.

With guilt, you never know if you have done quite enough. This is not the Holy Spirit working; that is another, evil power, coming from a different source.

Be on your guard then, against anything that makes you feel guilty. This is a denial of the work of the cross - very different from the specific conviction of the Holy Spirit.

(From "Bought With Blood" - by Derek Prince)

Meanwhile, the voice of Christ BECKONS ands LEADS His flock while Satan CONDEMNS and DRIVES as if with a whip.

Brother William, do you believe the 10 commandments are still relevant today? Or do you believe they’re not, because they were under the law? Some of the final words of the Bible and this revelation of Jesus Christ likewise state "Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city” (Revelation 22:14).

A poster writes,

"Surely one cannot willy nilly quote scriptures from the OT and broadly apply them to us now, in the NT dispensation?"

Surely not, "willy nilly" but apply them nevertheless!
Surely the NT writers were not quoting them in a "nilly willy" manner, yet they were applying them.

The writers of the New Testament directly quote the Psalms 68 times, Isaiah 55 times, Deuteronomy 44 times, Genesis 35 times, Exodus 31 times, Leviticus 13 times, Proverbs 8 times, Zechariah 7 times, Jeremiah 5 times, Hosea 5 times, for a total of 271 times. And there are, in the NT, many other references made to the OT Scriptures as well.

Remember, it was the Finger of Jesus which wrote The Ten Commandments on those Tablets!

Dear brothers,
Of course I believe all of scripture is profitable, for reproof, training in righteousness etc
The OT however must be used correctly though, especially in God's church, more so the prophetic scripture concerning Jesus Christ.
He is, after all, the supreme revelation, the very Word of God.
To properly apply the Ten Commandments they must be applied to us as those in Christ, in whom the Spirit dwells, He Himself writing these on our hearts and minds.
We are not Israel, we are the church of God, a New Creation...

" A New commandment I give to you, that you love one another as I have loved you"

All things have been made new through the death and resurrection of our Lord.
When interpreting scripture now,we should do so with New Covenant glasses on, lest we become like the Judaizers.

Therefore my plea for the use of OT scripture in context, as NT saints, and a correct view of judgement

Blessings,