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On Healing

H
HeartSong

"If we would be as faithful to God as we have been faithful to doctors, we would all have been healed. But we have been unfaithful and there is need of repentance."
- Smith Wigglesworth

H
HeartSong

"Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord." - Jeremiah 17:5

S
sermonindex

amen sister, I emailed a brother about a sickness and said;

1 Corinthians 5:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone
who claims to be a brother or sister[a] but is sexually immoral or
greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even
eat with such people.

If you get on your knees and confess to the Lord about this and
"agree" with him this is true, healing could come. I see 80% of the
time sickness is related to sin or spiritual matters of some type.

James 5:15 New International Version (NIV)
15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the
Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven.

H
havok20x

I have seen God do some miraculous healing in the lives of people--without doctors. But I still struggle in this area.

How do I discern when sickness is judgment form the Lord, as in the case with the Corinthians? How do I make that call? If I took anyone, I could find SOMETHING that I could pin the blame on, but I know that isn't the way we should practice discernment.

I know that there are men, such as Epaphroditus in Philippians 2 who were sick, but it was not from judgment. The man nearly died, but was healed by the Lord. Paul told the Philippians to hold him in honor because he nearly died for the sake of the Gospel. How does on discern that as well?

I am asking this legitimately, not to prove any points.

T
TMK

Why not just pray for healing and leave the result to the Lord?

H
HeartSong

Repentance is powerful - and to think, all it costs us is our pride.

___________________

p.s. immediately after posting the above, I went to another site and an ad appeared for a "prescription drug" - funny how that happened even when I have ads being blocked . . .

A
ADisciple

Greg said, "I see 80% of the time sickness is related to sin or spiritual matters of some type."

I am interested to know where you derive your statistic from, Greg.

H
HeartSong

When we do things that are not in accordance with the Word, we pick up parasites. Parasites live off their host and are responsible for a great deal of sickness. They are also quite contagious. If one member of the family has parasites, it is likely that the whole family is infected because they are spread so easily. The best way to get rid of parasites is to consume things that they don't like - particularly God's Word.

G
Gloryandgrace


Observation: First hand witness.

Faithful Pentecostal woman.
Weighs an easy 400 lbs
Diabetes, heart trouble, high blood pressure, dizziness, food cravings, lack of concentration. Unable to move or walk easily. Hip problems.

Pentecostal solution:
1. Rebuke generational curses, breaking them in the name of Jesus.
2. Rebuking demonic strongholds.
3. Praying for a miraculous healing for blood pressure and dizziness.

Elephant in the room: The woman eats plenty of icecream, burgers, gravies, breads, cakes, soda.

Sin in the room: Gluttony pure and simple.

Repentance is needed from gluttony.
Repentances consists of
Eating good and proper food.
Refusing bad hi calorie, high carb, fatty, junk food.
Eating proper portions.

When this is the counsel the prayer is for repentance of heart toward eating for pleasure, eating because of boredom, eating because of TV watching, eating because its always involved in fellowship, eating to curb food cravings.

The result, might well be a reversal of the health issues.

Christianity lesson 1 section 1.
1. Do not substitute repentance and new action with prayers, rebuking and looking for devils when you alone are the agent of your own demise.

Just something to consider, Im not a health food nut or pushing a new diet, just saying sometimes there is obvious sin and when you see that, go straight to it and deal with that first.

T
TMK

Good example Marvin!

H
HeartSong

"Bless the Lord, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name. Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits: Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases; Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies; Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle's." - Psalm 103:1-5

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twayneb

How do I discern when sickness is judgment form the Lord, as in the case with the Corinthians? How do I make that call? If I took anyone, I could find SOMETHING that I could pin the blame on, but I know that isn't the way we should practice discernment.

I know that there are men, such as Epaphroditus in Philippians 2 who were sick, but it was not from judgment. The man nearly died, but was healed by the Lord. Paul told the Philippians to hold him in honor because he nearly died for the sake of the Gospel. How does on discern that as well?

I am asking this legitimately, not to prove any points.

Havok: I do not find sickness in the NT as judgement from the Lord. I do see death in two cases, namely Herod and Anannias and Saphira. I am not sure I totally understand all that is going on with these two cases, but I see them in scripture.

I do see sickness, many times, as a result of spiritual causes and not simply physiological causes. But I don't think sickness due to spiritual causes is judgement from God. It is surrender to or yielding to the law of sin and death. In other words, the person has opened himself up to the corruption of sin by being disobedient, rebellious, etc.. If this goes too far, one could even invite demonic activity in his life.

This is why Wigglesworth, I believe, said what he said. If we would die to self, surrender to God, and live lives of obedience, we would close the door to the enemy who comes to steal, kill, and destroy.

Discerning this is also something that comes through intimacy with God and the working of the Holy Spirit. We cannot discern this psychologically or intellectually or emotionally. It comes as we learn to hear the voice of the Holy Spirit. I guess you migth call it the exercise of the gifts of the Spirit, word of knowledge or discerning of spirits.

T
twayneb

Observation: First hand witness.

Faithful Pentecostal woman.
Weighs an easy 400 lbs
Diabetes, heart trouble, high blood pressure, dizziness, food cravings, lack of concentration. Unable to move or walk easily. Hip problems.

Pentecostal solution:
1. Rebuke generational curses, breaking them in the name of Jesus.
2. Rebuking demonic strongholds.
3. Praying for a miraculous healing for blood pressure and dizziness.

Elephant in the room: The woman eats plenty of icecream, burgers, gravies, breads, cakes, soda.

Marvin: So true brother...So true.

H
HeartSong

I do not find sickness in the NT as judgement from the Lord

"For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world." - 1 Corinthians 11:30-32

H
HeartSong

Quote:
Observation: First hand witness.

Faithful Pentecostal woman.
Weighs an easy 400 lbs
Diabetes, heart trouble, high blood pressure, dizziness, food cravings, lack of concentration. Unable to move or walk easily. Hip problems.

Pentecostal solution:
1. Rebuke generational curses, breaking them in the name of Jesus.
2. Rebuking demonic strongholds.
3. Praying for a miraculous healing for blood pressure and dizziness.

Elephant in the room: The woman eats plenty of icecream, burgers, gravies, breads, cakes, soda.


Marvin: So true brother...So true.

Be careful of "elephants" for we do not truly know the cause and effect of that which is happening in the life of another. Only God knows. It may be her problems are the result of her trusting the doctors instead of God.

G
Gloryandgrace


HeartSong:

My post was not intended to be harsh or without compassion.

What I am expressing is the very clear and obvious signs are meant to be considered first. The 'why' as to her eating is another matter, but the 'what's she is eating and the quantity of her eating made her gluttonous in character and obese in appearance. The resulting poor health is the effect.

If you over-spiritualize people such as this, you do them no favors at all and in fact you give place to the devil and give place to sin by the mere fact when it is clearly recognizable it is ignored.

I've seen this in regards to weight, in regards to pornography, in regards to worldliness, in regards to gossip.
Each of those sins have their manifestations, ignoring the obvious when it is clearly seen says something about ourselves too, we dare not reproach them because in doing so we reproach ourselves who are doing the same things.

In terms of healing, when sin is the causation, what would Jesus have us to do? Would he not have us judge righteously and seek to help remove the specks from our brothers eye? Of course he would.

But back to your 'why' = cause and effect, the why could be addressed too, but to leave the 'bad eating habits' out of good counsel seems pseudo-spiritual not truly godly.

Im not saying "Well sister glutton here needs to repent and get out those celery sticks instead of licorice sticks".
I hope you recognize I am not asserting embarrassment or crass speaking to someone who is in a bad spot.
Gal 6 "ye which are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of meekness". So I counsel the manner as well as the content to help.

H
HeartSong

But there is no meekness in your words . . .

T
TMK

Marvin said he would not use harsh or crass language if speaking face to face with the person. Don’t you believe him?

G
Gloryandgrace


Hi Heartsong: We are speaking in terms of discussion, counsel, observation and past experiences. I am not attempting to relate in terms of compassionate counsel.

I've been guilty of so many things in my own life, the last thing I wanted was for someone to slap the snot out of me because I got caught with my sins showing.

I want to be told the truth, but I don't need a spanking. I would not deliver to others what I do not want myself.

Discussion boards are so 1 dimensional so when I speak I may come across clinical or harsh, but my heart is not that way towards a sinful brother...because I am that sinful brother more often than I should be.

Someone that has truly had to remove a log from his own eye knows what it's like to own that log as my own sinning. Those who have helped me most have been kind in delivering the ugly truth of my sinning and the good counsel to repent and remove it.

G
Gloryandgrace


I fully believe sickness and afflictions come by way of sins. Whether you answer in terms of cause and effect or in terms of spiritual obedience/disobedience there is one great reason to hope.

Jesus heals and delivers even when we have not fully repented, or didn't even understand what we were doing.
He heals even when we are ignorant of the most blatant sins and failures and he delivers even when we deserve every bit of our suffering.

Jesus mercy and kindness trumps our sins and his grace abounds where sin is present. We call upon a great Savior and a Great Deliverer. If I were to restrict healing to when "you have fully and totally repented" the hospitals and cemeteries would be filled with millions in a single day. God's kindness is poured out everyday and his love and mercies are new every morning.

I don't count on those I pray for to 'perform' in such a way that they now are candidates for healing. I count on the grace and kindness of Jesus Christ to minister lovingkindness and mercies regardless of past sins.

It's right that we clear away the stumbling blocks that will do us and others harm, that is a righteous and Christian thing to do. But I don't put my faith in human responses, I put my faith God who loves mercy and will bestow it in answer to faith in Him.

For me, it's important to minister in truth and bring light where darkness has prevailed, but this is only part of walking as Jesus walked. He served and was not served in return, he gave and received nothing in return, he fed and in the end the crowds called for his death. The grace of Jesus demonstrated to us is not only to show us he grace toward us, but to demonstrate how we must minister and serve
knowing the human heart is fickle and full of spite. We pray for those who very clearly do not deserve any prayers, we care for those who do not deserve any help. Worthiness in us is never to be associated with God's kind acts toward us. Worthiness is the quality that Jesus owns himself and our prayers and service are based on his worthiness not ours or those we pray for.

T
TMK

Agreed-

It would be a tad difficult to pray in faith if we are second guessing everyone who needs it.

H
HeartSong

"And Asa in the thirty and ninth year of his reign was diseased in his feet, until his disease was exceeding great: yet in his disease he sought not to the Lord, but to the physicians. And Asa slept with his fathers, and died in the one and fortieth year of his reign." - 2 Chronicles 16:12-13

D
drifter

"And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him." John 9:1-3

H
HeartSong

"And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents:

but that the works of God should be made manifest in him. I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay, And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.)

He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing."

- John 9:1-7

A
AbideinHim

A large crowd followed and pressed around him. And a woman was there who had been subject to bleeding for twelve years. She had suffered a great deal under the care of many doctors and had spent all she had, yet instead of getting better she grew worse. When she heard about Jesus, she came up behind him in the crowd and touched his cloak, because she thought, "If I just touch his clothes, I will be healed.” Immediately her bleeding stopped and she felt in her body that she was freed from her suffering.

At once Jesus realized that power had gone out from him. He turned around in the crowd and asked, "Who touched my clothes?”

"You see the people crowding against you,” his disciples answered, "and yet you can ask, ‘Who touched me?’ ”

But Jesus kept looking around to see who had done it. Then the woman, knowing what had happened to her, came and fell at his feet and, trembling with fear, told him the whole truth. He said to her, "Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be freed from your suffering.”

Mark 5: 24-34

W
wijnand

How are you guys dealing with people that come for prayer for healing that don't get healed?

- Do you blame there faith?
- Do you blame your faith?
- Do you speak about 'God is souvereign and does what He pleases'
- Do you get frustrated?
- Do you seek the Lord why not? (and if so, does He replies)?
- Do you help the person to still trust in the Lord
- Do you say to the people you pray for that they should go to a doctor?


A second question:
Do you guys see doctors as 'bad' and medicenes as 'bad'? It seems like some would believe this.

H
HeartSong

Has the LORD ever healed you?

T
TMK

//A second question:
Do you guys see doctors as 'bad' and medicenes as 'bad'? It seems like some would believe this.//

Not me!

G
Gloryandgrace


Hi Wijnand:

1. Unbelief is a plague to faith, when we have unbelief we cannot please God by it nor receive from God what he promises.
2. If Unbelief is in my own heart I am to blame for it's presence and for acting in accordance with unbelief rather than faith.
3. God is always Sovereign and therefore he does act in accordance with his own wisdom and plans.
4. Doesn't everybody at some time or another?
5. Yes I seek the Lord, yes God replies.
6. Prayer is not magic, it's not mental-kinetics, its not assertion of human will over situations or conditions; prayer is our connecting with our Father in Heaven to receive from Him his promises and blessings for ourselves and others.
7. God made the body to repair itself, this repair is improved by a skilled physician who can help the body repair itself as God designed.

The second question can be answered with a hundred different nuances, in general No, medicine is not bad nor are doctors.

A
AbideinHim

One of the main reasons why Christians are not receiving healing from the Lord is that they are not convinced that healing is the will of God. They do not know or believe that healing is in the atonement. If we would study the word of God on the subject of healing, and pray according to the scriptures then we would be experiencing much more healing than what we do. The problem is never with God or His willingness to heal, but the problem is always with us, and in some way we are not hearing what the Spirit of God is telling us regarding our situation.

Many doctors are doing all that they know to do in helping people, but we have to realize that they are practicing physicians. They are not God and they don't know everything. I have a Christian doctor, and I don't believe that it is a sin to go to a doctor if we have prayed about it and are being led by the Holy Spirit to do so. If we are putting more trust in doctors and medicine than in God then it does become sin, and that can be in any area that we trust in man more than in God.

There are many godly people that believe in healing that have struggled for years to be healed, and I would never tell one of these saints that it is because of a lack of faith that they are not being healed.

Sometimes sickness can be used by God as a chastisement, but if we would rightly judge ourselves, repent of our sins then we are in a position to receive healing from the Lord.

Many Christians are often sick because they are eating unhealthy foods, not getting enough exercise or allowing things like fear and stress to dominate them.

There are spirits that attack Christians from time to time such as a spirit of infirmity, and if this is the case, a doctor will never be able to figure out what is going on.

The scripture says that Jesus went about doing good and healing all that were oppressed of the devil. Christians can be healed by claiming the promises of God for healing with believing faith. Christians can be healed by the laying on of hands, calling for the elders of the Church, availing themselves to the gifts of healing, and from spending time in the presence of God. The Spirit of God that lives within us gives life to our mortal bodies. The Word of God believed and received is medicine to all of our flesh. It is the will of God that we would prosper and be in health even as our soul prospers.

Psalm 103 says that we are to bless the Lord and forget not all of His benefits.

He forgives us for all of our iniquities.

He heals us from all of our diseases.

He redeems our life from destruction.

H
HeartSong

Amen, and amen. Thank you Mike.

H
HeartSong

One day, about a year after I was saved, I was baking cookies. The last batch of cookies filled only about 1/4 of the cookie sheet and when I finished removing the the cookies, I grabbed the pan and put it in the dishwater. It was when the pan stuck slightly to my hand as I released it that I realized my mistake - I had forgotten to use the pot holder. Afraid to look, I clutched my hand, wondering how I could have made such a mistake. When I finally opened my hand to look, my worst fears were confirmed as an angry red welt ran diagonally the entire length of my hand. I moaned for the LORD to help me and immediately thought to put ice on my hand. As I applied the ice, I noticed that a blister was beginning to form.

Hours later, as I was praying, I remembered that I had burned my hand. I looked down at my closed fist and slowly opened it - to my amazement, the burn was gone. There was no mark whatsoever, only a slight tenderness where the burn had been. Oh how I praised the LORD! For days afterward, whenever I thought of it, I would stare wonderingly at my hand and praise Him all over again.

I do not remember removing the ice, and I do not know how it is that it took me so long to look at my hand, but I do remember the event every time doubt starts to enter my mind as I call upon the LORD for healing. He is faithful and He is loving and He cares about every little thing - and the big things too!

G
Gloryandgrace


It is a funny thing how someone who is sick can get judged for not having the faith to be healed. Now, Ive already said unbelief ruins faith and stops the answer from God.

Yet...while some might judge you for going to the doctor and criticizing you over your lack of faith to use a doctor...ask that same person do you apply your faith to getting your oil changed or your car fixed? The same God that designed the body surely knows a little about auto mechanics right? Why are you running to the mechanic when your faith could obtain a repaired car? But, to some degree it just exposes our hypocrisies and the compartmentalizing of our faith.

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TakeUptheCross

Luke was a physician! :) Well, we don't see particularly in the Bible that he treated somebody (except perhaps the wounds of his fellow believers) but the disciples were not ashamed to call him 'Luke, the beloved physician'.

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twayneb

Please don't think that by saying what I am about to say that I am implying anything at all about anyone commenting here. I am not.

We get ourselves intro trouble when we try to maintain principle apart from or even in place of relationship. Suppose one believer has a powerful, deep, and intimate relationship with God. As a result of that relationship, he comes to know very well the heart and love of God for him, and his faith grows. His faith is based upon intimate knowledge that is obtained through intimacy. This man's faith is very fruitful, because it is genuine, genuine in the sense that its source is intimacy with God. His motive was relationship, and his fruit was faith and healing.

A second man sees the faith of the first man and marvels. He desires the same results and begins to listen to the first man to try to figure out how to obtain this faith. He hears the first man expound from the word things that He has obtained by revelation through intimacy. But the second man lacks the same level of intimacy. His motive is to have the faith and the healing, but he never dove into intimacy like the first man. In fact, he has a pride in his knowledge that always comes when that knowledge is found apart from revelation through intimacy. He might have experienced some fruit of faith, but primarily he is living off the stories of the first man and his own pride in what he knows. He concludes that it is lack of applying certain principles that is causing a third person not to be healed. He chides that person for not applying the principles. After all, if you only lived by the same principles as I am living by, you would have been healed.

I hope that story helps in this discussion. We are not healed because we applied certain faith principles in the proper way. We are healed because God loves us and desires to pour upon us all of the benefits of the atonement, and of being intimate with Him. But we must receive by faith, we know that from scripture. But faith in what? Not in principle, in Him, by Him, and through Him.

I have some ailments in my body that I seem not to have victory over yet. I am still believing for that victory, though I don't see it yet. But in all of it, I know that God is good. I am growing in intimacy with Him, and my healing or lack of it does not in any way cast a shadow or light on God. He is good no matter what. He desires to heal me according to His word. This is all I need to know. I cannot blame Him any more than I can blame another man's lack for his own sickness.

I am simply committed to knowing Him in a deeper way. I am growing like everyone else. My faith is being perfected...not there yet for sure. In fact, it never will be totally. But I am growing and seeing greater victory and greater manifestation all the time.

Hope this perspective helps.

T
TMK

For every anecdotal report of a healing (I have my own) there are thousands where healing does not occur, at least in a way that would seem sudden or "miraculous.”

That does not dissuade me in the least in praying for my own or others’ healing.

My default position is that healing is God’s will and just leave results to Him.

My default method is to command healing by Jesus’ authority vs simply praying for healing. It’s ok to pray as well but I think we need to rebuke disease and sickness.

That being said I don’t think I’ve ever rebuked my age and computer related hyperopia. Better get on that.

A
ADisciple

With regard to what Greg said at the beginning of this thread: "I see 80% of the time sickness is related to sin or spiritual matters of some type."

I wondered where that 80 per cent figure came from, but I got no response.

My concern is that it is a very heavy yoke to be told that the reason you are sick is because of sin in your life. I've been sick for a long time, and have had this yoke put on me, and had to seek God earnestly to put it off. What those brothers implied concerning me was wrong. I have God's testimony in my heart that I am right with Him, yet these brothers tried to put on me what Job's comforters tried to put on Job.

Besides myself, I also know several other true-hearted Christians who have, or had, very serious diseases. Some of them have died. There was no sin in their lives.

So I am asking those of you who believe and teach this-- that when someone is sick it is because of sin in their life-- to be very careful, lest you find yourself learning a very hard lesson.

Yes, there may be instances in which someone is sick because of sin in his or her life. But the great majority of sick people are sick not because of some specific sin in their life, but because of the sin that entered into the family of man by Adam's disobedience.


T
TMK

Agreed Allan.

I believe reading Greg's post again that he was referencing a specific case known to him where a known unrepented sin was at work in the individual and he was not making a general statement.

H
HeartSong

There have been times in my life that the LORD has not healed me until I have prayed for another - particularly if it was someone that I had judged either in thought or deed.

J
Jasmine

@ADisciple

Thank you for your post

H
HeartSong

Dear Allan and Jasmine,

I am not sure if I should be writing this, but I feel that if I don't, I will leave you both bloody and lying on the side of the road. Allan, there are things you have written that could be keys to what is hindering your healing.

This: "I wondered where that 80 per cent figure came from, but I got no response."
Sounds like bitterness.

This: "Besides myself, I also know several other true-hearted Christians who have, or had, very serious diseases. Some of them have died. There was no sin in their lives."
Is a lie.

There is bonafide sin in all of our lives. I could be sinning in writing this, even though I prayed, and feel so burdened to do it. But if I feel convicted later, I will go before the LORD and ask His forgiveness. And I will come to you and ask for yours as well.

Our problem is that our ways are not God's ways and we get stuck because we have determined something to be Truth when it is not, and therefore do not ask for forgiveness when we should. It is essential that we do not refrain from calling sin sin and that we remain open to the LORD showing us whatever He wants to bring forth.

God bless you, and keep you. I pray in Jesus name that He heals you both completely so that you would be totally free in His love.

D
deltadom

I was actually healed when I was younger when no one was in the room, god does not need people.
Even thou I have been healed myself I have never seen people walk from wheelchairs or blind eyes open
I believe in miracles
I think the hardest person I struggle with is miracles on a personal level , I can believe god can heal everyone else but me and that he cares about everyone else but me

I hate it when churches focus on miracles rather than the bible.
The bible talks about the antichrist calling fire down from heaven and some cults do miracles.

As a Christian I do not like any of my Christian brethren suffering, pray that god heals u

H
HeartSong

Many, many years ago, my mother in law came to live with us. She had gone to the hospital - for a tumor I think - and they would not let her return to her home. It was not long before we could no longer hold her because she had developed shingles from a particular medication. New medication was prescribed. Not too long after that she became paranoid - again from medication - and thought we were trying to harm her. Her life became reduced to trying to sort the pills that she was no longer able to sort because of what they were doing to her. At some point she stopped taking the pills because she realized that they were not making her better - only worse.

When she died, she was being heavily medicated with morphine. Upon the recommendation of another I went in to view her body before they took it away, and I am so sorry that I did for the image of the terrible struggle that took place has been imbedded upon my mind all these years.

I was not saved at that time - even though I thought I was. I did not know how to share Jesus, for I did not have Him in my heart to share. Maybe if she had not been on the morphine someone might have been able to get through. Oh how I loved her - and no one can convince me that "she went to a better place" for the terror that I saw upon her face.

A
ADisciple

Heartsong:

Thanks for your concern, but no, what I wrote was not out of bitterness. I seek to keep my heart free from all bitterness. I was just perplexed as to why I received no response to my inquiry.

As to what I said about my Christian friends who died because of serious diseases, even though "there was no sin in their lives," this is not "a lie." I simply meant that there was no known or unconfessed sin in their lives. They lived clean lives before the Lord. If they happened to sin, they confessed it before the Lord and received His forgiveness.

I do the same.


H
HeartSong

Allan, I am sorry if I misunderstood, and pray that you would forgive me if I caused you any due concern.

H
HeartSong

"Pleasant words are as an honeycomb, sweet to the soul, and health to the bones." - Proverbs 16:24

A
ADisciple

Heartsong, that's okay, I wasn't offended. All is well.

P
passerby

Divine healing is a difficult topic to discuss especially in a diverse group like SI. We can be grateful however, to the provisions available for any healing needs we have, acknowledging that all good things come from the Lord.

By then, we do not need to be obsessed with guilt or doubt for whatever healing avenues we pursue. For us who have pentecostal backround, the decision whether we seek the help of a physician or not can be a really distressful situation which I guess should not be treated with judgmental attitude.

Regarding, the eighty percent Greg had said, I think he was talking of the sick people he actually came across.

G
Gloryandgrace

Ministering to the sick:

One of the pitfall of zealous praying for the sick is "God did it this way before" pit. It's a pit because our intellects and soul get in the way of genuineness. Instead of initiating prayer with faith toward God and compassion toward the hurting, (those of us who have had our prayers answered and people healed) we start to analyze and formulate how God healed so-and-so. Unfortunately we come up with certain prayer 'statements' or moods, or specific verses we use. Now, the situation, the person is generally overlooked. Our spiritual discerning is turned-off, our focus on Jesus speaking and dealing with us and with those we are praying for has been misplaced by the strange idea that "This is the way Jesus always answers my prayers"

The failure lay in the idea that God must do things in a certain way from now on because he did them in a specific way in the past.
Since we are learning to be led of God and walk in the Spirit, God changes how he wants to do a healing, unless we are available to that shift/change we get a no answer.
Someone might ask..."Isnt God being picky, I thought he answered faith and all of this 'technical' introspection is really no answer"?
God is not being picky nor are we being 'technical' because we are learning how the Spirit of God ministers through us.
It's important to note that when we fall into routine, or a formula for our prayers in the area of healing we are in fact not putting our faith in Jesus but in the formula or our own precise wording or our mood and sense.

If God wants to tell someone "dip 7 times in the Jordan", he can do it that way. In our minds...the number 7 and Jordan combine to get the healing we desire. But upon easy scrutiny we find out 7 and Jordan were for reasons other than the healing itself.
how about Jesus putting mud on the eyes of the blind man? Shall we seek out the exact 'holy' mud? Since we have no access to Jesus spittle...I suppose no one can be healed of blindness?
I hope you can see what I am saying, to pursue mud, the Jordan or dipping 7 times is a waste of time and so likewise using some precise wording in our prayers, the right anointing oil, the right worship songs, the right situation and mood for yourself all steals the heart away from a direct dependence and listening to the Holy Spirit minister through you at that moment.

This and much more can be said as to how to minister by the Spirit of God. The quicker we recognize that God's method with this person may not in anyway be his method with the next. But we learn this errant teaching...not by the pastor per-se but by watching the healing lines on TV or in some Church and 'learn' that the Evangelist used the same words, the same slap of hands and the same sha ma ma ma tongue was used...so we conclude 'we too' can and should do the same thing. Well, God may honor it God may not, but I can assure you from my own failures in this area God's intention was never to care more for a 'methodology' than for the person being ministered to.

A great deal more healing would occur if a great deal more Christians would jettison all formulas and ask God to make us all available to exactly how he wants to minister then be obedient to that.

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