??? Grace a 2010 yr article ????

I thought I just noticed a 2010 article/discussion about ‘grace’,
that was just put back up here,... and now I cannot find it.
It did not say who brought it back up.

Did anyone else see this.
May have been took down for a reason?

Does anyone know?
””””””””””-
elibeth

was it this?

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=20518&forum=35

Thank you Ron,
I appreciate you, but this is not it.
It is the one that was on,... I know yesterday and this morning.
I’ve looked diligently and can’t seem to find it.
I really don’t know who it was that was bringing up the subject of ‘grace’.
it was in the year 2010.
Names were deleted in some of the responses.
Thank you for your kindness,

””””””-
elizabeth

It was here for a couple of days and did not look like anyone "bumped” it. I couldn’t figure out why it showed up.

Thanks Tod,
I couldn’t figure it out either,.. because it would usually show a name who put it up and a comment.
””””””””””””-
elizabeth

Can you remember any of the words or phrases in the article ? As you can Google search with those words and it could show up ?
Type something like :

'Sermon Index + Grace + (any words you remember from the article)'

Thank you David,
I will try that.
There were not many comments on the subject,.. maybe 5-6.

””””””””””””
elizabeth

II have failed to find it,
Thank you for the efforts to help.
I appreciate you,
God bless,
””””””””””””-
elizabeth

Good morning Elizabeth :)

The thread was entitled "The wonders of GodÂ’s grace" and it was bumped the other day by a spammer. Their post was deleted and finally the thread was returned to its archived status :)

Here is the link to that thread:

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=35561&forum=35

Oh,! Thank you Brandi ,

And good morning to you,

I have been considering what you said and thought , surely someone out there is desiring to hear more on this subject.

And, as you know, I consider ‘grace’ a dire subject.

If we get the true, ..(God’ defining / meaning / work) of ‘the kingdom of God’,.. and ‘Grace’ true/truth,.. then the whole of God’ counsel,...Jesus’s teachings, all come together,.. leaving nothing out.( that is our basic learning of Him)

But,.. I must say, .. It is the ‘narrow way’ ..just as Jesus says.

God bless,
🙏♥️
””””””””””
elizabeth

Hi Elizabeth

There must have been something very powerful drawing you to this Grace post. That is the power we all need, please give us some sense of what gave you such a need to find this post.

Your loving brother: Phillip

Yes, Dear Brother,
Don’t we believe that The Lord’ Grace ,.. (the true grace),..this gift that He has given us, holds the most importance of anything or everything to/for us ?... The greatest importance!
We could not have even came to The Lord without This Grace drawing us
to Him.
(Jn. 6:44,)
(Jesus speaking), "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: ",... so He draws us by His Grace.
( The Spirit of Grace)

Remembering Paul,.. he sought The Lord thrice to help him, with some type of infirmity that he was having, and The Lord told him, ‘My Grace is sufficient for thee’.
(The strength, the power, of this /His Grace),.. nothing greater to help,.. the ultimate, that God has for us.
... that ‘ Devine effluence/drawing of God’ Spirit upon our lives’
It starts when He / His Grace first draws us to Him,.. to His Word,..
If we continue in this Grace.

Let us not grow weary,or complacent , in that His Grace hath no effect.
... that we receive not this Grace in vain.

Acts 13:43,
43, "Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.”

Through time and tradition, have we lost the true meaning of this Word ?
Has Satan distorted the word, Grace, to deceive in order to gain his purpose ?,... would he do such a thing to farther his kingdom ?... ( strong words, I know)
...but you asked.,.. and thank you, brother,.. I can think of no greater subject at this time.

So,
I must,
””””””””””””♥️
elizabeth

Acts 16:14,
"And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul."

Note: ...’whose heart The Lord opened’ ...

Lord !! ...Please open our hearts , always to receive this / your grace, .. the greatest power on the face of the earth, that you have for us,.. and let us not get dull of hearing !

In Him,
♥️””””””
elizabeth

God's grace shows me that I have to repent. I don't hold to it being a gift of the spirit which can never be taken away. Grace seems to reflect to me as God's personality in action.

His love manifesting in His grace for mankind, is something I believe. We don't want to walk out of that place of spiritual grace after we have received Him

Thank you David,from so far away.
It amazes me of how God’ Word,.. our communion (communing ) together of Him,is spread so far now in these later days. A blessing!

Yes, Grace,... God’ gift to us ,...we did not / do not deserve it,.. unmerited favor,...a gift that keeps on giving.
....drawing us to God, ... drawing us to His judgements,.. how He judges in matters.

Grace,( 2 phases )
* ‘His Devine effluence upon our hearts’,... ( the hearing (drawing of The Word (God) though The Spirit)
* ‘And it’s reflection in the life’,... (the doing of that given Word/ that effluence upon my heart ,....

Isn’t that what made a change in us from the beginning ?

Paul, and others said continually, ‘Grace be unto you , and peace from The Father ‘.... it was always, Grace,.. then peace,..in that order.
They put great emphasis on Grace,... I believe, it was in order to have peace w/ God.... it was not ‘just a phase’ to be passed over,.. but was / is significant.
God bless, ... I appreciate your response David,
””””””””””-
elizabeth

Heb.4:16,
" Let us therefore come boldly unto ‘the throne of grace,’that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need”

Heb.12:14-15,
"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:”
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of ‘the grace of God;’ lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;”

Heb.12:28-29,
" ¶ Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, ‘let us have grace,’ whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:”
29 "For our God is a consuming fire.”

Heb.13:9,
"Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that ‘the heart be established with grace;’ not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.”

ICor.15:10,
(Paul )
" But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me."

2Pet3:18,
" But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever.”

♥️””””””””-
elizabeth

What is this Grace? Given to the Church by the power of God which is the mystery of Jesus Christ and the Gospel of Grace.

Ephesians 3:2-9 (KJV) If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

This mystery revealed to Paul by Grace Himself Jesus Christ given Paul for us/"to youward".

Knowing this Grace of of God in truth given to Paul which he calls "MY Gospel".

Colossians 1:6 (KJV) Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

Let us hear it plainly and by Faith that we are fellow heirs with Christ who we are also seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus who is now our spirit.

Colossians 1:26-29 (KJV) Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

You speak of Power; this is the absolute power that we posses by the Spirit of Christ being born again in us to the Truth of God the Father which draws us unto Him.

This is the absolute and workings of our salvation in Him;

Galatians 2:20 (KJV) I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

What has God made Jesus Christ to us?

1 Corinthians 1:30 (KJV) But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Let us Glory in this great power of the Gospel.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (KJV) Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

This is the Gospel of Grace through Faith which Jesus Christ and The Holy Spirit given by the Father brings us into the Length, breadth, depth and height of what God Has done by the Son in His Glorious plan for you and me in Christ. Amen!!!!

In the Glorious Grace of Jesus Christ: Phillip

Philip wrote:
"This is the Gospel of Grace through Faith which Jesus Christ and The Holy Spirit given by the Father brings us into the Length, breadth, depth and height of what God Has done by the Son in His Glorious plan for you and me in Christ. Amen!!!!”

------------------------------

SCRIPTURE:

Eph. 2:4-10 ”“
But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

2 Thess. 2:13-14 ”“
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thess. 1:12 ”“
so that the name of our Lord Jesus will be glorified in you, and you in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Bro David,
The words wrote/spoke , I believe ,are really in need of being said again.
Good words!

Re:
"God's grace shows me that I have to repent. I don't hold to it being a gift of the spirit which can never be taken away. Grace seems to reflect to me as God's personality in action.”

It is so true,we must be in a continuous state of repentance with The Lord.
His Grace continues to do it ‘s work in us, if we don’t turn aside, and become dull of hearing... and ‘repentance’ is a continuous turning from our way unto (Life) ,. His Way.

Thank you again,..
””””””-
elizabeth

Yes I got those words from a well known book (smile) ...

Titus 2:11-13 King James Version (KJV)

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

..............
My failing in my early years as a born again believer was to wait upon a special dispensation of Gods grace before I could change and turn from my sin.
But the truth was it has already appeared and teaches us to live as these verses say.

Brother,
Great Book !! 😊
Thank you ,

Working on something on this subject this morning,.. but did not get to finish .
””””””””””
elizabeth

Dear bro Philip,and Jade,

Re:
Philip, you ask,...
"What is this Grace? Given to the Church by the power of God which is the mystery of Jesus Christ and the Gospel of Grace.”

You ask, ...and we share in that The Word ‘Grace’ holds such
GREAT IMPORTANCE !!

We know that The Word says there is only (1) Spirit,..
And The Spirit of Grace is a part of that One Spirit of God.
There is only (1) Gospel,.. and that it is The whole counsel of God.
Guiding us into His/ the king [dom] Way.

Col1:13,
13 " Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: "

Christ IN US, is the Alive wisdom and moving of His Grace in us.
It is such a great gift,.. the greatest !!
The hope of glory,.. glorifying The Father,whose Name, He has given us.

"And His Name is called, The Word of God”

””””””””””-♥️
elizabeth

I love this song:
"My God and King”
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T1G3Iqhv7CQ

Dear Elizabeth,

(1)

Just to clarify:

Is grace to you something that God gives "me” i.e. "I” i.e. "self” to conform to the image of Christ and shine forth the glory of Jesus’ name?

The Lord Jesus says:

Mark 8:34 ”“
And He summoned the crowd with His disciples, and said to them, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.

Comment: A spiritual self is still self.

Or, do you agree that by grace through faith I have been crucified with Christ and now Christ lives in my heart as my wisdom and righteousness and sanctification and redemption (Eph. 3:14-19, 1 Cor. 1:30)?

Gal. 2:2 (KJV) ”“
I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

2 Cor. 13:5 ”“
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oro_TcjYbfU

(2)

"And His Name is called, The Word of God”

Amen.

John 1:1 -
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

But Jesus is the LIVING WORD. The written word testifies about Him.

John 5:39-40 ”“
You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

Christ Himself must live in us as the Living Word in us. The written word illuminates our minds about Christ but the day must dawn when the morning star arises in our hearts (2 Pet. 1:19, Rev. 22:16).

Let me elaborate.

The Bible says:

Rom. 1:20 (KJV) ”“
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

As the DNA is the WORD of our physical life, so Christ is the WORD of our spiritual life.

We can read all the books about the DNA and have great understanding about it. But our knowledge and understanding and mental assent to the written word about the DNA cannot produce the physical life of the DNA in us. The DNA can only be our word of life by our physical BIRTH into that life.

So we can know all about the written Word of God and have great knowledge and understanding of it and even diligently try to live by it. But it cannot produce the life of Christ in us. We can only have a new spiritual life in Christ by a spiritual BIRTH into that life.

John 3:3,7 ”“
Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God……………You must be born again.”

Blessings.

Galatians 2:16 (KJV) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Philippians 3:9 (KJV) And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Galatians 2:20 (KJV) I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Romans 3:22 (KJV) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Galatians 3:22 (KJV) But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Revelation 14:12 (KJV) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Romans 3:3 (KJVSL) For what if some did not believe ? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect ?

Titus 1:1 (KJVSL) Paul , a servant of God , and an apostle of Jesus Christ , according to the faith of God's elect , and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness ;

Ephesians 6:23-24 (KJVSL) Peace be to the brethren , and love with faith , from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ . Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity . Amen . Written from Rome unto the Ephesians by Tychicus .

Peace and Love by The faith of God and of Jesus Christ. This Grace is give by the previous sentence, by the Faith of God and Jesus Christ given to us brings forth the Word of God, Jesus Christ in us. Amen

Jesus is our all in all, all of all, all there is in Christ whose Spirit now lives in us who believe by His Grace by His Faith by which we are saved.

(Pistis) Faith; Total reliance upon Christ for Salvation.

In Christ: Phillip

Jade, you ask,
Re:
" Is grace to you something that God gives "me” i.e. "I” i.e. "self” to conform to the image of Christ and shine forth the glory of Jesus’ name?”

Jade, this is what I see God’ , ‘Grace’ is tto us all, ..and also ‘Faith’ that you mentioned.
Please bear with me -it will be a step by step,..

We are called by His Grace,... and we did not even know that it was called ‘Grace’,.. or the Spirit of Grace. We just knew, that there was something happening to us,.. drawing us to a different way,..causing us to repent and desire God, and turn to Him. One’s around us knew there had been a change.

*”For by ‘Grace’ are ye ‘saved’ through ‘Faith’

Grace:(2) phases,..
*This same Devine effluence upon our hearts, that we just mentioned,
(The hearing of the Word)
(2)And it’s reflection in the life,... the doing of the revealed Word..... the hearing and the doing of that Word,... ‘Faith’

Examples:
Noah, Abraham, Moses, Paul, and many, many more, that heard The Lord’ Voice and obeyed ,... (Faith in hearing.) "Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.”

Faith to ‘believe’ His Word, that He is drawing / speaking to us.

And this Grace through faith, brings glory,... God, who is The Word is glorified.

We know we did not deserve this Grace,.. it was and is unmerited,..
That it is the goodness and the pure mercies of God,.. the good news,. Because He has made a Way for us, ... a prevision through His precious blood, to save us from eternal hell.

He offers us a fountain of Living Water.

We see in The Word in Jesus’ day, many example ‘s / reflection’s of Jesus ‘life work in the natural, but He wanted us to have ‘eyes to see’ in the Spiritual after His death and resurrection.

Examples:
He healed

Natural Spiritual

Blinded eyes /. Eyes to see
Deaf ears. /. Ears to hear
Lame,Crippled. / Walk
Hungry / Fed Spiritually
Dead. (Lazarus,dead and bound from head to foot) weren’t we? / Life

And now another example on ‘grace’,..

* The Samaritan woman at the well,
"Jn.4:10,u
"Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water."

13-14,
" ¶ Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life”

It says, She left her water pot and went HER WAY,into the city and she asked, was this the Christ.....

Can you see the natural. / Spiritual aspect in that?
Jesus beckons, .. does she Repent / turn,.. to follow
Faith / believe,.. she goes her way and ask, is ‘this the Christ?’
Is she demonstrating ‘Believe / Faith’ ?

So, thank you Jade for asking.

””””””””””-♥️
elizabeth

Brother Philip,
No, we are not /no longer under the law now,.. we no longer read the law, and try to do it.
No more natural circumcision .

But We are called into The Spirit now,.. we get our leading by The Spirit of God now,... the cutting away,... circumcising of the heart.

Kind of tired now,
””””””””””””
In Him,
elizabeth

Hello my sister

You wrote this; """Brother Philip,
No, we are not /no longer under the law now,.. we no longer read the law, and try to do it.
No more natural circumcision """

Where did this come from, is this an answer to a question you perceive that I asked? Is this a statement of fact that you think I believe we are under the law still?

Please, I am confused (which isn't hard for me) ha! Help me understand your last post.

Love you sis, In Christ: Phillip

Brother Philip,
Please forgive me for taking so long to get back to you.

There has been sooo many things that I needed to get done,as of late.

And, also I thought you may have read into my posts that I believed we are to follow the law now.... which we are not under now, but under The Spirit now.

So if I read you wrong, again, please forgive me.

Now, I would like to know about this statement, that you wrote,...

Re:
"Jesus is our all in all, all of all, all there is in Christ whose Spirit now lives in us who believe by His Grace by His Faith by which we are saved.”

in this are you saying,
By the Grace, that lived within Jesus,...?
Or, are you saying,.. the Grace that He gives unto us ?

And likewise:
By The Faith, that lived inside of Jesus, or
The Faith that Is growing in us, by hearing ? .. and acting on that hearing ?

I am hearing so many, from soo many sources discussing ‘Grace ‘, now,.. wondering,.. why is this ?
””””””””
elizabeth

Ephesians 1:6-7 (KJV) To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

This is what the Grace of God has given us. It is Christ the beloved who Himself has become our Grace given us by the Father for our redemption.

Ephesians 1:17-18 (KJV) That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

In this is the Glory of all our hope in Christ for all that is, was and will be the Glory of the Father in our knowledge of Jesus Christ, our understanding being enlightened as we become all that the Father has given us in Christ.

Ephesians One is the epitome of all that God has done in Christ for The Body of Christ His Church. We read and read and read it and more and more the Grace in, of and all that Grace has become is there and more enlightened every time we read it.

Ephesians 1:23 (KJV) Which is his body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all.

What do we have? We have it all in Him our beloved savior, of whom I am crucified with and it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. He is our all in all of all and everything else we need and have unto the Glory we could ever want. Gal 2: 20

This is He in us; 1 Corinthians 1:27-31 (KJV) But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

I am the foolish thing of the world, a base thing, despised a thing which is not, weak, unwise, lost and destined for hell. Yet Here I am by the Christ that lives in me a fellow heir in Christ of the Heavenly things Christ brings me into, made a heavenly creature seated already in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

He is my all in all, of all, all in Him; wisdom, righteousness, redemption and sanctification, there is none else of myself that attains to nothing but naught. He is my all.

The Law is dead. I am alive in Christ Jesus by the Grace of God and the Grace of God in Christ Jesus who bring into my rebirth all the Grace and Glory that is Christ in me now.

Wow!your question lit me up. Amen

Quote; """in this are you saying,
By the Grace, that lived within Jesus,...?(lives in Him)
Or, are you saying,.. the Grace that He gives unto us ?

(now live in us)

And likewise:
By The Faith, that lived inside of Jesus, or
The Faith that Is growing in us, by hearing ? .. and acting on that hearing ?"""

Yes!

1 Corinthians 2:5 (KJV) That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

In Christ: Phillip

All of this is the faith (((of)))Christ in us. Not my faith in Christ, but His Faith in me that I might believe.

Galatians 2:16 (KJV) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the (((faith of Jesus Christ)))

faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ,
given us by the Father at our rebirth and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Philippians 3:9 (KJV) And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the (((faith of Christ)))
of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Galatians 2:20 (KJV) I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith (((of the)))
Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Romans 3:22 (KJV) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Galatians 3:22 (KJV) But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Revelation 14:12 (KJV) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Romans 3:3 (KJVSL) For what if some did not believe ? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect ?

Titus 1:1 (KJVSL) Paul , a servant of God , and an apostle of Jesus Christ , according to the faith of God's elect , and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness ;

Ephesians 6:23-24 (KJVSL) Peace be to the brethren , and love with faith , from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ . Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity . Amen . Written from Rome unto the Ephesians by Tychicus .

Peace and Love by The faith of God and of Jesus Christ. This Grace is give by the previous sentence, by the Faith of God and Jesus Christ given to us brings forth the Word of God, Jesus Christ in us. Amen

Jesus is our all in all, all of all, all there is in Christ whose Spirit now lives in us who believe by His Grace by His Faith by which we are saved.

(Pistis) Faith; Total reliance upon Christ for Salvation.

The Faith of Jesus Christ in me.

In Christ: Phillip

The better translation is "in," not "of."

ADD: In reference to KJV use of "of," Matthew Henry describes it as the faith that has Jesus as its object, which of course is the same thing as saying faith IN Jesus.

Brother Todd,
Good to hear from you.

You said,
Re:
The better translation is "in," not "of."

Though, would’nt the changing of that one little word, constitute an awful mistake ?

Because "of” could mean,the SAME "faith” that Jesus had / has,...and Abraham had,.. and that was in "hearing God, ..( who is the Word, gives them the Word ), speak to them, and the doing / obeying "(the faith that they had),..ie....their type of faith.(this is how I believe)...... He speaks the Word / Spirit to us, and we are to be led to "do”/obey,..(faith),.. hearing/ obeying-
Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by The Word of God.
That is the "faith of Jesus ",... the faith that Jesus had.

Wherein "in” could be carried into a different meaning,.. and could be completely wrong, carrying one down a wrong path altogether.
...a path of the wrong meaning of "grace”

There are several words that are of dire need of getting the meaning, according to the way God see’s it.,... it is a must.

Looking at the word "Church”, from its original meaning, with time and tradition. The meaning, we know, has now become the building, instead of the people of God.... (the church that is at ??? house)

Now the other words:

"Grace”, "believe ", "Faith "

If we believe that ‘the kingdom of God” is within us, that it is The Lord’ good pleasure to give us the kingdom, .......

And why ,.. what purpose of that kingdom is it to be within?,..
But to draw us unto what The King’ will is,.. in that heavenly/ Spiritual Kingdom.
( the kingdom of God: the resurrected Lord [s] [way] in us.)

Didn’t Paul continue to teach "the kingdom of God”,.... the things pertaining to,... The princables of the kingdom.

This "Grace " draws us into the things that be of God.
Faith comes by hearing this Spirit of Grace.
Faith in believing what The Spirit says.

This is why "Grace” is sooo important a subject to me.
It is not to show what I know,.. not at all,.. because it is not mine,..
But I am so concerned of the misinformation / misunderstanding of these dire Words.

This is not only for Todd, but for us all.
God help us,
””””””””””-I tremble to put this out there
elizabeth

Dear Elizabeth,

Grace does not call us. It is God who calls us by His grace.

Grace does not draw us. It is God who draws us by His grace.

Grace does not convict us of sin. It is the Holy Spirit who convicts us of sin by God’s grace.

Grace does not save us, does not sanctify us, does not make us wise. It is the Lord Jesus Christ who is our wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification and redemption (1 Cor. 1:30) by grace.

Grace does not glorify us. It is Christ in us that is our hope of glory by God’s grace.

I do not follow how the natural/spiritual you wrote about fit into this discussion on grace.

Blessings.

Elizabeth:

To simplify, here is the NASB version of Gal. 2:16:

nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.
Galatians 2:16

And here is the KJV:

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 2:16

Do you see them as saying something different?

Jade, you said,..
reply:

"Grace does not call us. It is God who calls us by His grace.”

"Grace does not draw us. It is God who draws us by His grace.”

"Grace does not convict us of sin. It is the Holy Spirit who convicts us of sin by God’s grace.”

Re:
*Call us
*Draw us
*Convict of sin
God is a Spirit,..invisable,.. He is The Word,.. which is His Name,..
Grace is just part of the One God,... that One Spirit. the Spirit of Grace,..

That calls us, .. draws us,.. convicts us , of our sins.the One and the same Spirit.

1Cor1:24,
"But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God."

Re:
Christ in us, the hope of glory”

So what is ‘Christ in us for ?.. (verse above)
Why do we need ‘the power’ of God at work in the us ?
So Christ is power in us,..

And what is ‘the ‘wisdom’ of God,?
But why do we need the wisdom of God,?

So God,.. through His Spirit,..of Grace,draws us to His righteous thinking,..
wisdom.... and the power of the doing of that wisdom,.. that Word.....
to bring glory to God, to bring glory to The Word,.. The Spirit,..

The only way that I know to say it.
””””””””””””-♥️
elizabeth

Brother you ask if I see any difference pertaining to :

Gal2:16,

NASB and the KJV, on this verse.

Yes, actually I do.

Not , that I think that you are wanting to,..but please, I won’t get into The Bible translations controversies.

””””””””♥️
elizabeth

Christ said that He was the Way, the Truth and the Life. When we receive Christ we receive HIS life. He is our way. He is our truth. He is our life. He is our righteousness. He is our wisdom. He is our sanctification. He is our faith. He was full of grace. Grace is more than a doctrine or just some teaching. Grace is the person of Christ living and dwelling within us.

Cup,
Re:
"Grace is the person of Christ "LIVING” and dwelling within us.”

You have said the KEY word here,.....”LIVING”

And I would say "dwelling” is another word, you used , that has great meaning,.. wouldn’t you ?

Thank you,
””””””””””
elizabeth

Heb 10:19-20, "Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;"

Rom 5:10, "For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life."

HE is our present LIVING salvation.

Vern,
Yes , through the Precious Blood of Jesus, an entrance has been made for us.... and we have access ,.. we can enter in to the Father.

2Pet.1:11,
"For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ”

(The kingdom of God that is in some of my previous posts)

Now, .. What does His "Life” "Living” in us mean ?
"Living” ,... salvation,

I would say "Living” , means "Alive”,.. action ,.. not lying dormant or dead,...
Wouldn’t you ? Our God, can never die,.. or be dead in us,..He is from Everlasting.

He has called us into His Devine nature.... hasn’t He?

2Pet.1:4,
"Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature,”

,.... through Grace,.. ‘ The Devine effluence upon the heart,...
and it’s reflection in the life.”
Salvation,.. He wants to continually save , ( salvation) us from our sins,

"For by Grace are he saved” by "faith”

* Fallen from from Grace-
* take The Grace of God in vain ,..
* do Disspite unto the Spirit of Grace

I can’t think of much more that I can say.

””””””””””In Him♥️
elizabeth .

Elizabeth:

Grace is simply not we ourselves working but God Himself working in us, giving to us and bestowing on us our redemption, righteousness, sanctification and glorification.

Eph. 2:8-9 ”“
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Rom. 11:6 ”“
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

God gives all things to us, works all things in us and bestows all things on us IN CHRIST.

1 Cor. 1:4-5 ”“
I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus, that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge,

Eph. 2:10 ”“
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

It is when Christ is in us that we are filled with the fullness and the glory of God.

Eph. 3:14-19 ”“
For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name, that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God.

Col. 1:26-27 ”“
that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints, to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory

2 Cor. 4:6 ”“
For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness," is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.

The name of our Lord Jesus is glorified in us according to the grace of God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thess. 1:12 ”“
so that the name of our Lord Jesus will be glorified in you, and you in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

---------------

Add:

John 1:16 ”“
For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace.

Col. 2:9-10 ”“
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, and in Him you have been made complete……

----------------

We are reprobates if Christ is not in us.

2 Cor. 13:5 (KJV) ”“
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Hi Elizabeth, Thank you for this Thread It is great learning of the Grace of God and where it comes from and what it does. It comes from faith.
The faith of Jesus Christ in us, which is the wholeness of all that God has for the believer. By Faith He went to the Cross, By Faith He died looking forward to the greatest sacrifice He could make to redeem those God has for His reward. By Faith He was resurrected. By Faith He has come back to live in the believer of which He gives The Faith of Jesus to us, the same measure to all who believe. Let us believe that we have the same Faith in us that is in Christ. The Faith of Jesus Christ.

The best I have read on the subject, a small excerpt;

"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”

How is a man justified? By the works of the law? No. By the faith of Jesus Christ. Not by faith in Jesus Christ. Our faith doesn’t justify us, it is Christ’s death by which we are justified. Then ‘by the faith of Jesus Christ’. Why? Because His death was an act of that faith.

And what is a result of being justified by Christ’s death, by His faith? The result is that "we have believed in Jesus Christ”. Our belief doesn’t justify us, it is a result of our justification, inwrought by the Spirit. Our belief brings us to an experimental knowledge of our justification before God subjectively in which God declares a sentence of justification in our hearts, but it is God that justified us objectively in the Person of His Son, who shed His blood for His people. And when Christ shed His blood for that people the righteousness of God was unto all of them from that very moment, to be applied by the Spirit upon all of them when they believe, "even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference”. For we are justified, not by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ …

"…who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.”
Oh, may God give us grace to both see the glory of His work in Christ, that work of faith by which He justified His people for ever, and believing, to walk by faith, looking unto Jesus, "the author and finisher of faith”.
Amen.

The rest of the story;
https://thegospelofgod.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/the-faith-of-jesus-christ-romans-321-22/

In Christ: Phillip

Here is the part of that article that you gave a link to that hits the nail on the head.

"How is a man justified? By the works of the law? No. By the faith of Jesus Christ. Not by faith in Jesus Christ. Our faith doesn’t justify us, it is Christ’s death by which we are justified. Then ‘by the faith of Jesus Christ’. Why? Because His death was an act of that faith.

And what is a result of being justified by Christ’s death, by His faith? The result is that "we have believed in Jesus Christ". Our belief doesn’t justify us, it is a result of our justification, inwrought by the Spirit. Our belief brings us to an experimental knowledge of our justification before God subjectively in which God declares a sentence of justification in our hearts, but it is God that justified us objectively in the Person of His Son, who shed His blood for His people. And when Christ shed His blood for that people the righteousness of God was unto all of them from that very moment, to be applied by the Spirit upon all of them when they believe, "even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference". For we are justified, not by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ ..."

Wow!!! This makes it very clear!

Hi Vern,

I have read your posts and it is a blessing to read and see that all I believe, that the Holy Spirit is teaching the same to others, wow what trust it builds in us to come under such truth for the Body of Christ. Becoming of the Same Mind in Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:9-10 (KJV) God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Bless you, In Christ: Phillip

Brethren,

What sounds so deep and true can sometimes complicate things.
As Todd previously pointed out, the translation "the faith of Christ" is simply an archaic way of saying "faith in Christ" , isn't it?
So the opposing statements are: I am not justified by works (my own efforts to attain to righteousness) BUT I am justified by His work of obedience on the cross and by my believing it, or Him. (Believing INTO Him, as it were)
Knowing, of course, that this believing is not mere mental assent, but heart trust. Entrusting our souls to Him for Eternal Life.

How that faith comes, of course, has a mysterious working attached to it but we know it comes by hearing the Word concerning the Christ (the Gospel)

Blessings,

Rom 4:1-5, "What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.”

Rom 4:16-25 "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb: He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.”

It was God who made a covenant promise - commitment to Abraham. Now he believed in God’s commitment to him. We know that Christ is the author - initiator and maintainer of all true faith and that is impossible for any person to generate faith independently from God. As God spoke to Abraham, the living word created or birthed the faith within him. This faith was not result of Abraham’s work or effort but by the Living Word. All he did was take God at his word because He knew that God Himself was totally responsible for bringing this promise to pass. This was the living faith of God in Christ within him. Yes, Abraham believed God but the source of this faith was the Living God Himself - not something that he had to maintain or work up. He knew that it was God who quickeneth the dead and Abraham was fully persuaded that, what God had promised him, God was able also to perform. Simple!!

Philip,Jade, and Vern,
Please ! ,..Am I reading you right...?

Is it that you are led to believe, that everything is on Jesus, with NO
obligation on our part?.. ..
..that we are just living off of His life that He lived ?

Is that the way that you interpret this "of”

i.e. " the faith OF Jesus "...

If so, then that is NOT the way I see it.

(The Scripture s will not fit /work together in that way.)

Jesus’ Faith was hearing The Father, and the doing only what The Father,God said.
It is the hearing and then the doing,... that was / is Jesus ‘s Faith, He heard from His Father, God, and obeyed.....

The Faith "OF” Jesus,... the type " OF” faith that Jesus had.,... worked through The Spirit "OF” God in Jesus and in us.... where He / we "hear” from The Father, and obey......A Living Faith.

Same with Abraham-

Gal.2:16,
"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, "but by the faith OF Jesus Christ,” even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be "justified by the faith OF Christ”, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”

So "Faith” cometh by hearing, and hearing by The Word of God,
And not reading the law and trying to DO it,..

We are now born of The Spirit of God, and ‘hear’,.... ‘led’ by His Spirit.

Jesus was led (heard His Father) by The Spirt of His Father, God,.. did (work)

Jesus said, "Follow me”,... He said to "seek he the kingdom of God, and His righteousness”

Isn’t that what Paul did ?.... "What would Thou have for me to "DO” Lord ?”
And The Lord revealed MUCH to Paul, but he said,
1Cor.9:27,
"But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.”

Gal.3:1-2,
"O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 "This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the
law, or "by the hearing of faith?”

I really don’t believe that we are interpreting / seeing the Scriptures the same.,...are we?

””””””””
elizabeth

I believe there is subtle danger in some of these posts but because it is subtle it is hard to exactly state what it is.

I think it boils down to some who think faith or repentance is a "work.”

Then he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” And they said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Acts 16:30-31

Work or not, Paul told the jailer to believe in Jesus in order to be saved. Not believe in the faith of Jesus (whatever that means) but to believe in a Person.

Elizabeth:

When grace held as the "divine effluence” is enthroned, Christ is dethroned.

Sure, it is the throne of grace BUT the One who sits and rules on that throne is the Lord Jesus Christ

Heb. 12:2 -- fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith……

1 Cor. 8:6 -- yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him

Jude 1:24-25 -- Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy, to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen

????,

(Song)
"The Love of God”

NOTE. !
I AM SORRY,.. the wrong song came up,..
it is this one intended:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jgdbx-5PDuA

(I have taken the wrong one off)

ӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢ

We know,... without a doubt !!!, that God, .. The Father,.. loves us.

But when it says ‘The love of God, in The Word, ...it is not always just being said, His love for us,... ..... are we always that self - centered, selfish to not consider that it is talking about ‘our love for Him’ , ?

When we read The Word, ,..... (Him),,.... do we not include all of what He is telling,... or saying to us, before we make a decision to put an explanation point or a period ??,.. or just a period, for that matter?... before we
take into consideration ,what He is saying to us, as a whole.

It is not always easy to say things here,.... because we know ,... the true Word brings reproach.....

But the love for man , and the love for God constrains me.

♥️
””””””””””””-
elizabeth

Dear Bro Todd,
Re:
The Scripture you gave,..

Acts16:30-31,
"Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 ¶ And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”

Ok, please !
Can we take a closer look / examination of what is taking place here

*Paul has a vision:

"And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us."

Who was this man in this vision ?,... it does not say.

We know that we cannot come to God, except He draw us.
And that it is the Grace of God that does that work.
( the work of God in our lives)
( For it is by Grace that ye are saved, through faith)

So God prepared this man ‘s heart,..to be saved.
(A turning away from His life ,..to the Life, that is in God.)

And yet,.. does this Grace continue, through Christ IN US, to work in our lives ? ..... not only initally, but continues to save us from our sins ?

Oh what strength and persuasion !

Faith in believing this persuasion and direction.

Remembering Paul,... after he was initially saved....
He was going through something, and was praying to The Lord for The Lord to help him, ....... ( I believe he needed saving from something that he vieued as contrary to God’ will in his life) ( actually I believe it was a spirit of puffed upness, because The Lord’ revealing much ito Him),...and The Lord said, " My Grace is sufficient for thee”,... the provision that God had for Paul and for us,...
"The Spirit of Grace”, working in us to bring glory to God,.. ( The Word of God)....

””””””””””””””””♥️
elizabeth

You seem to be describing grace as a substance, a physical "thing.” But grace is really just a descriptive term.

"By grace you are saved through faith” simply means if you believe in the finished work of Jesus on the cross and what that entails, that God will save you because God has now granted favor (grace) upon you because of what Jesus did.

The topic of grace should not be as convoluted as some of these posts seem to make it.

Dear Brother,
Re:
you said,:
"You seem to be describing grace as a substance, a physical "thing.” But grace is really just a descriptive term. ”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please !, I will try to explain,..

The Spirit of Grace is a Spirit, .. which mean it is, Living’,..Alive, because it is The Spirit of God,.. which is really The Spirit of The Word, drawing us to God [ward].

When The Lord said, "It is finished ", ( and may I add , that many believe as you do),.. but I believe it means, He is saying, "It is finished ",.. I have made a Way for you now,..through His Way.

Jesus says , "I Am” "The Way”, "The Truth”, and "The Life”

Who is The "I Am” ? ,.. God is The I Am ,.. The Spirit / Word ,...
,..Jesus only spoke the Words of His Father ,..
Jesus said , (in this order)
I am, "the Way”
"The Truth”
"The Life

Since God is a God of order, I believe , His Words are precisely in order,.. wouldn’t you say ?

So ,I believe we would have to go in ,..
*His Way,..which is. ,..
Through "His,Truth,..
If we are to have "Life”,... and that more abundantly.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re:
You said,
"The topic of grace should not be as convoluted as some of these posts seem to make it.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jesus said, "The Words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit and they are Life.”
So if His Words that He speaks to us is Spirit,(and they are) then wouldn’t they necessarily have to be Spiritually discerned?

And Please !, I am briefly trying to bring some important clarity to things that I am saying.... NO ARGUMENT,.. hoping to help.. in the Spirit of Love””Always !

””””””””””””””-♥️
elizabeth

It seems I just can’t grasp what you are saying. I appreciate you trying to clarify. I am a reasonably intelligent and educated person so I guess I can’t spiritually discern it!

I am sorry, Brother-
Wish I could help-🙏

””””””””””””””-♥️

elizabeth

Hey Todd,

Nothing wrong with your discernment, brother :) and well you know it.

I am proposing that we are probably discussing two sides of the same coin.
Grace outside of us, in Christ, on the cross, between Him and the Father, dying for the whole world.
Grace operational within, bringing us to faith in Christ at the hearing of the gospel, and revealing Christ in us that we may confess Him and proclaim Him. This grace is the Spirit Himself operational within us.

John says:" for of His fullness have we received and grace upon grace (giftings, empowerments, enablements)
Paul prayed and was answered thus:" my grace is sufficient for you...(the supply of the Spirit of grace, enabling Paul to endure and persevere)

While I will not go as far as to say that grace is Christ, yet it flows from Him and cannot be separated from His person. As we draw on Him and feed on Him by faith, we receive a fresh supply of grace (spiritual invigoration and life, strength, enablement)

God bless,

An attribute of God is not God himself. God is love...God is not an abstract Love or grace or peace or mercy though God possesses those attributes in perfection.

I think it is fair to use the vernacular "Jesus is grace personified, or Jesus is love personified". Personification brings the attribute out of existential realm and into the actions of a human. Jesus did this.

But the Spirit, or the Father or Jesus are persons in the Triune God; the aseity of God should not be confused with attributes. Attributes should not be confused with the personage.

The personage of God encompasses the attributes of love, mercy, grace, power, knowledge etc. But the attributes exclude each other because one thing is not another.
Love is not Justice, Love is not wrath, peace is not anger which those things mentioned God himself declares himself to own.

Zec 12:10,"And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."

2Th 2:10

and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

How does the grace given to man enable man to "receive the love of the truth."?

Jeff, you ask:
Re:
"How does the grace given to man enable man to "receive the love of the truth."?”

I would say, Jeff,.. that ‘The Spirit of Grace’ draws / influences us to desire/ love, the things which be of God,.. Who is Truth.... that we would seek/search-out The Truth,... and since God is a Spirit,.. Seek to see His Truth through His eyes, How He see’s things,..His judgements, in matters.

God said,...
Mt.17:5,
"This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.”

The Holy Spirit,..being filled with The Spirit,.. given unto us,... Christ IN us...The Anointing,...He will,..through The Spirit,.. Anointing, teach,.. lead,.. draw us to His Truth-
,....the plum line of Truth.
He will teach us,..as the Spirit of Grace, puts the desire in our hearts....
And not receive this Grace in vain / nothingness.

When He first appeared unto us, by His Spirit of Grace,.... remembering,..
How we changed, followed after Him,.. and after awhile,.. we may have become complacent,.. duller of hearing ?

We must return, and become sensitive to that very self, same Spirit.

Don’t know if I have answered your question just right though.

””””””””””””-♥️
elizabeth

This song came into my spirit,.. thought to share it:

"Spirit of The Living God”
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GK-O5nfL1Mo

””””””””””””””””-♥️
elizabeth

Elizabeth,

Everything you wrote is true. From the first paragraph to the last where you testify of me and where I find myself this day. This thread can be summed up in the song below. We all have a story...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0BE_SryWgNY&feature=youtu.be

How He changed me, and then how the cares of this life dulls one’s hearing. That last paragraph is a prophetic word spoken to me.

Brother Jeff,
Your words truly blesses me.

Would to God that not only you,but me, you, and the whole world would arouse and awaken out of sleep.

Then , and only then will we become a true threat to the whole world.

Grace, much Grace O’Lord,
Give us ears To hear,.... sensitive to your voice,

Save us from ourselves, O’Lord,
Awaken us O’Lord, out of sleep,

Mt.25:5,
"While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.”

Oil,..Holy Anointing afresh,.. that we will burn with that love for you,.... and for everyone around us.

We are VERY POOR ,O’Lord,....
Mt.5:3,
" Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

. but to have your Grace makes us VERY RICH,..... your Grace to help in time of need.....Grace to draw us to the Kings will in His kingdom that we have entered into.

So now,,... We Cast our cares upon Jesus,.. for we know, that He careth for us.

””””””””””-♥️

elizabeth

Our Dear Brother Jeff says,....

Re:
"How He changed me, and then how the cares of this life dulls one’s hearing.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How many of us has this very same thing happened to us,I ask ?
.....remembering back to how we were when the Grace of God ,at the first visited us,...

Satan wants us distracted,.. to look to the left and to the right,...
. but The Lord wants our eyes to be single,... single on Him,..

Mt.6:22-24,
"¶ The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.”

23 "But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!”

24 "¶ No man can serve two masters: "

*David said he saw The Lord always before his face,.... he looked to / followed Him.
ӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢ
Acts 2:25
"For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:”

Vs. 28,
"Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.”
ӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢ
*To see His face is to look through His eyes,.... to see His righteously judgements,.. how He judges in the examination of our own selfs.

*Paul says " Judgement must begin at the house of God, and if it
first begin at us,...
We judge ourselves, so we can repent,.. straighten up, so we won’t have to be judged.
ӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢ
1Pet4:17-18,
"¶ For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?”

18 "And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?”
ӢӢӢӢӢӢ
Rom.13:11-13,
"¶ And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.”

12 "The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.”

13 "Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.”

14 "But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.”
ӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢӢ
* The Lord has built,.. is building, this house in us, that houses The Holy Spirit,,,,,His Name,..
Hallowed Be Thy Name, O’Lord !

____________♥️

elizabeth

Note:
Bro. Jeff, I listed to, and shared the song you gave,.. enjoyed it very much