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Sermon on the Mount

S
Sree

I was wondering what 'Sermon on the mount' means to the believers here. To me when I read the Bible as a Hindu, 'Sermon on the Mount' challenged me so much. I had something inside me, tell me that if God came to earth and setup his standard of requirement for his creation, this is what it will be. I was absolutely amazed at the standard set by Jesus. Acts 1 says, Jesus practiced and then preached. So Jesus lived by the Sermon on the Mount and it was from his life the teaching came.

To me Sermon on the Mount, is an effort by Jesus to raise the standard set by 10 commandments and prophets. He is raising the bar to a new height that is now possible by this New Covenant life. Every Believer should have this ambition to live by the standard preached in this sermon.

G
Gloryandgrace


The Sermon on the mount is New Covenant perspective, new covenant living and new covenant promises. But what stumbled everyone when it was preached was the fact the Old covenant was being lived out, preached and believed in such a way that something like this was tantamount to an alien invasion.

Jesus lived out the law in relation to his Father, his view of the law and it's authority in our lives was beyond merely the curses for disobeying it. Jesus showed what the 'true Israel' should be like and think like.

In doing this, and in bringing in the new covenant he revealed to all of us an example to follow, a way of life to imitate, a relationship with the Father to seek after.

The Sermon on the mount is a 'bridge' that shows what both old and new covenant spiritual life was and is to look like.

T
twayneb

Sreeram: I would like to put this out there for consideration. In the sermon on the mount we read, "Your righteousness must exceed that of the scribes and the pharisees if you are to enter the kingdom of God." Immediately after this statement, Jesus begins to compare the letter of the law with the motive of the heart, that which is up to our own effort to keep and which was externally enforced with that which comes out of the motive of a regenerated heart and is internally motivated.

Think about thou shalt not kill. Under the OT law, I could hate a man all I wanted, but as long as I did not kill him, I was not punished. But Jesus said, "If you hate him in your heart, you have committed murder already."

To the common Jews Jesus was speaking to, the righteousness of the Pharisees was like walking on water. They saw the Pharisee as the spiritual elite. They felt they could never rise to that level of righteousness. And now Jesus throws out a standard that is so high above the law that it is totally unattainable.

Jesus wraps the thought up with this statement. If you are going to be right with God, you have to be perfect like He is perfect. This would have sent a collective gasp through the crowd. How is this possible. How can I be righteous like God is righteous. How can I be complete, mature, perfect like God is?

So I don't think Jesus was giving a new and higher law for us to keep. That was the very thing that He came to abolish, self effort in trying to attain to a standard and be pleasing to God. Instead He came to offer Himself as the way back to the kind of right relationship and righteousness that causes a man to have the heart and mind of God. So to give a higher law would be to build stronger the very thing He came to destroy, man's own self righteousness gained through self-effort. But if His point is to show that no amount of keeping the law can ever earn us righteousness, then He made the point very well.

So I believe Jesus goal was to show the futility of self effort, the ineffectiveness of the law, and the need to be born again and then transformed into God's image.

S
Sree


So I believe Jesus goal was to show the futility of self effort, the ineffectiveness of the law, and the need to be born again and then transformed into God's image.

I appreciate your view but I disagree. Jesus did say that our righteousness should exceed that of Pharisees and scribe. The righteousness of them was only external, but internally as Jesus pointed out they were dead bones. So as Jesus responded to them, it is inner cleaning that leads to external life. Holy Spirit working inside us is needed to produce the external testimony.

As you noted here, the Sermon ON the Mount is about internal. All except 1 command in 10 commandments was external. Paul acknowledges that he struggled in that 1 internal command of lust. But in sermon on the mount which is the new covenant standard, Jesus emphasized the inner cleansing that leads to external life. This is the new covenant standard.


So I don't think Jesus was giving a new and higher law for us to keep. That was the very thing that He came to abolish, self effort in trying to attain to a standard and be pleasing to God.

There is not a single verse in the Bible that says the law is Abolished! There are multiple verses to show it is not by both Jesus and Paul.

Matthew 5:17 - Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them

Standard and law are 2 different things. Old Covenant had a standard of requirement that God wanted them to meet which was mostly external. Law was a means (or medium) by which that standard was achieved. For example we want our kids to be proficient in math and School grades are a means by which our kids learn math and become proficient in them. What is the use if a kid passes high school but struggles to do basic math! His school certificate is useless. Same way Law was a school master that came to bring us to a standard.

What Jesus preached here is not law but a higher standard than the one needed for Old Covenant. Now to achieve this standard is impossible by Law. That is why Jesus starts with saying blessed are the poor in SPirit. Which means we have to acknowledge our poverty in spiritual things and seek God's spirit to achieve this standard.

He ends up Sermon on the mount with Hope, 'Ask you will receive'. Ask me for the power to keep this standard, you will receive.

Jesus himself said that his words are spirit and not law. Letter kills but Spirit gives life. It is important to note that we know how to distinguish between Law and Spirit, else we might ignore the words of SPirit calling it law. Then we will hear the dreadful words, 'I Did not know you'.

G
Gloryandgrace


Hi Sree: You should know being a good student of scripture that the law in the form of Ceremonial, Temple, Priesthood, dietary, wars were all abolished.

You know this text:

Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

As a Gentile, all of these laws are contrary to us because we could never obey them in covenant, because it wasn't until the 10th generation that a gentile would be considered in covenant relation like a Jew.

The Moral law as is contained in the 10 commandments, that which pertains to marriage and sexual relations are binding.
But even though the moral law is binding we are not justified by it. We are not antinomians but we are not law-justified either.

As to righteousness, there is no 'external righteousness', that external thing not conforming to the mind and will of God done by reason of love and devotion to God is not righteousness at all.
Everyday we have atheists who do not kill, do not steal do not commit adultery but there is no knowledgeable believer who categorizes moral-atheists as righteous. Nor do we consider moral pagans or moral skeptics or moral Mormons/Jw's etc as righteous in the sight of God.
We make that judgment not based upon external law-keeping but based upon their own testimony regarding Jesus Christ.
They deny him.

Morality has in view only the fact that a man has kept or obeyed a law and by that 'keeping' is judged moral.
But righteousness has in view the keeping of law in relation to God. Righteousness is obedience done in love and honor to God.

If you leave God out of the picture, righteousness is reduced to morality which any pagan can imitate...and when such a term is used indiscriminately blurs the difference between the life of a Christian and the life of any pagan or atheist. Our culture is full of this ignorance.

T
twayneb

Sreeram: My heart is not to argue, but I do want to make sure you understand where I am coming from. Ephesians 2:15 says that Jesus, "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;" So the enmity that He abolished in His flesh was the law of commandments. Romans 10 says that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to them that believe.

Please do not think that I am saying that God does not have a standard of holiness. He IS holiness itself. I am made like Him, but not through keeping any laws by my own efforts. I am called to live a holy life. I am called to be like Him. But living a holy life and becoming like Him is utterly impossible if I am trying to do it in my own efforts. The rebirth makes me like Him. I literally become His righteousness. I utterly abandon my own and I receive His. I am, through His sacrifice of death, dead to sin. My surrender to Him means that I died with Him. Baptism is the picture of this. Death, burial, resurrection. It is not a rite of the Christian church, it is a reality of the death and rebirth that happened in my life. The old man is dead. I now live in Him.

But the people to whom Jesus was preaching did not have this reality yet. They were still under the law and under the deception that they could somehow be righteous by keeping the law. None more so than the Pharisees. (I tithe of mint, anise, and cumin...) Jesus told the people, your righteousness must exceed this if you are to have any hope of eternal life. Not only must you not kill, steal, or commit adultery. You must also not hate, covet, or lust.

To even the modern day Christian, these seem like totally unreachable goals. How much of a typical Christian's life is spent trying to overcome just these three. And how many sermons and counseling sessions are spent trying to help people overcome just these three.

But we were never intended to try to eliminate these things from our lives. We were intended to die to self and live through Him so that these things are dead to us and we are dead to them. If we see these things as higher laws that we are to attain unto, we will fail and be frustrated because our efforts will be self originating. But when we realize that the rebirth is about becoming like Him and dying to these things, it changes everything. God does not desire us to overcome these things. He desires us to become like Christ in whom these things do not even reside.

So Jesus says that we not only must have a righteousness that is greater than the scribes and Pharisee's righteousness (which was a self righteousness based on their own effort), but we must be able to meet God's true standard of holiness which cannot be reached with external effort as it is an internal standard. How must we do this? We must be just as righteous as God is. We must be perfect like His is perfect. Not continually striving for his perfection. The text leaves no room for that interpretation. We must be just as righteous as God is. No exceptions.

But how do we get that righteousness? We cannot get it through keeping a higher set of laws. We can only receive it by death and resurrection. Death to this old man and resurrection by the very life and power of God. God made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us that we might be made the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. His death and resurrection provided for my own through which I receive His life and His righteousness.

Now I no longer lust. Now I no longer covet. Now I no longer hate.
Why? Because I have His perfect life living in me. My eye is single and my whole body is full of light. I am in relationship with Him in intimacy and as I gaze upon Him with an unveiled face (the enmity is gone. The veil of the law and self effort is gone. The veil is removed) I am changed into His image from glory to glory. That word changed is the word used in Romans 12:2. It is metamorphosis. But what is more, it is the word transfigured for that is the only other use it has in the NT. On the mount, Jesus was transfigured before them. He put on the glory He had with the Father and they saw Him that way. Likewise we are changed, transfigured, from one level of glory to the next, ever more into His image.

Hope that clarifies my statements a little bit.

T
twayneb

Marvin: Appreciate the comment. I would ask a question though. Is there a Biblical distinction between moral law and ceremonial law. I have heard those terms most of my life, but I have never personally found in scripture where this distinction is made.

What do you make of 2 Corinthians 3:6-10?

S
Sree

Mavin, you are totally confused with Justification and sanctification. May be Sanctification does not even exist in your view of Christianity!

Justification is by faith in Jesus. We cannot make ourself righteous. When we repent from our Sins and believe in Jesus, then God looks us like how he looks at his Son Jesus. This is called Justification. It is positional righteousness, based on our position in Jesus.

Now when a person is born again and believes in this justification, a desire comes to obey every command of Jesus. Jesus himself said that the one who loves him will obey his commandments. The great commissions in Matt 28, is very clear, in which Jesus commanded his disciples to keep and teach every commandment of his.

But it is God who empowers us to keep his commandments by the working of the Holy Spirit. It is not by self effort, it is God who enables us.

Philp 2:12 - Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good pleasure.

Anyone who does not want to follow sermon on the mount and considers it as law is not even born again. How can someone not have love for Jesus and consider born again? If he has love for Jesus, then as Jesus said there will be a genuine desire to follow every word of Jesus. A person without such a desire is not just unsaved but is also cursed.
1 Cor 16:22 If anyone does not love the Lord, he is to be accursed.

S
Sree

It is lie of the Devil to say that ALL the 10 commandments are no longer applicable to Christians. 9 out of the 10 commandments are mentioned in New Testament in a positive way. That is in a way to make it applicable to Christians.

If the standard of life of a Christian is below someone one who lives by 10 commandments then he has to put his head low and confess that he has no love for Jesus.

S
Sree


Sreeram: My heart is not to argue, but I do want to make sure you understand where I am coming from. Ephesians 2:15 says that Jesus, "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;" So the enmity that He abolished in His flesh was the law of commandments. Romans 10 says that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to them that believe.

Totally taking the verse (Eph 2) out of context, what was abolished there is the enmity that was there on gentiles with whom God had no covenant. It talks about Justification which is not based on law. Law was never abolished, Jesus words are so clear. Let God alone be true and everyman be liar.

Romans 7:12 is very clear that the enemy is not Law.
7:12- So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous, and good. Did that which is good, then, become death to me? Certainly not!

Please read scripture with context and compare scripture with scripture. Otherwise you will only be deceived like this.

The problem is not with Law, the problem is with human who cannot keep it. Paul was so clear about it in Romans.

No where did I ever mention that we should keep the commandments of Jesus in self effort. I do not know where you are even getting these ideas. In fact I was very clear that apart from God working inside us it is impossible for man to live the Sermon on the Mount. When it is proven that it is impossible to live by 10 commandments, God should be out of his mind to expect the same from us by self effort.
But New covenant is not self effort, it is God who works inside every believer to enable him. A believer can do all things through Christ who gives him strength.

Whether it is self effort or work of God, the fruit should be evident. If not then Christianity is lie.

T
twayneb

Sreeram:

Thank you for your reply. I was never implying that the law was not holy. However, according to Hebrews, the law had only a shadow of something that was to come and not the very image of the thing. Paul says in Romans that the law was just and holy and pure. Of course it is. It came from God. Nothing from God could be any different. The crux is the purpose of the law. Paul says in Romans 7 that we have become dead to the law by the body of Christ. It likens this death to the law like a marriage that is dissolved when one spouse dies. It means we are now free to be married to another. Paul in 2 Corinthians 3:7 says that the law, and specifically that part of the law that was written on stones (the ten commandments was the only part of the law thus written) was a ministration of death. He then says that if the ministration of death was glorious, how much more life through the Spirit.

The point is that the law was never meant to be kept as a way of being right with God. While we were in the flesh, the law only ministered death to us. "Sin that it might become exceeding sinful" "When the law came, sin revived and I died." The law was to reveal God's holiness to us in part, but sufficient to condemn us all. The law ministered death through condemnation, showing us that our own righteousness born through our own efforts was totally useless in trying to be right with God. It was a schoolmaster in that it taught us our own insufficiency and pointed us to Him. He was witnessed through the law and prophets. Romans 3:21-26 says that the law was not against the promises of God. The law pointed me to the promise of faith that was to come. But it was only necessary until the seed should come. He came. No schoolmaster is necessary any more.

I do have to respectfully disagree with your assessment of Ephesians 2:15-16. Paul writes in Colossians 2:14 that the handwriting of ordinances was against us and this is what Jesus took out of the way, nailing it to the cross.

I am not at all saying that the law is unholy or unrighteous. It is holy. It is righteous. I am absolutely and unequivocally saying that the law is not binding upon us as believers. But before you cast me as a heretic, please do not take on statement without the rest. Through the rebirth I take on the nature of Christ. I do not kill, not because the law is binding upon me. I do not kill because killing is not the character and nature of Christ, whose I am. If the law is binding, I am bound to keep it. If I become like Jesus, I will think, feel, and act like Him, the originator of the law. I am not bound by the law. I am transformed into the image of Christ and I don't even have life in myself anymore. He lives through me, and as such He keeps His own laws. (Grace teaches us that denying worldly lusts we now live soberly and righteously in this present world). His empowerment makes me keep the law by nature, not by edict.

You see, now I have His motives, His thoughts, His emotions. Much superior to having his ordinances on a piece of paper. This is why Hebrews says the new covenant is a superior covenant and why He abolished the old to make way for the new.

One more thing to consider. Scripture tells us that the carnal mind is enmity against God for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. The law was external ordinances written on paper and stone and delivered for me to try to keep. But it was with my carnal mind and carnal effort that I tried to keep the law. So all of my efforts to keep the law, to be holy, by my own efforts were enmity against God because the came from my carnal mind. Paul tells us in Galatians the fruit of the Spirit and the works of the flesh. Carnal ordinances only strengthen sin and produce the works of the flesh. This was the purpose of the law, to make sin exceeding sinful, to show us that no matter how hard we tried, we could not meet God's standards without actually becoming like Him through the rebirth and the power of the Holy Spirit. 1 Cor. 15:56 tells us that the strength of sin is the law. The law only made sin stronger in us because we were carnal. This is what Paul describes as his own experience in all of Romans 7.

T
twayneb

But it is God who empowers us to keep his commandments by the working of the Holy Spirit. It is not by self effort, it is God who enables us.

I don't believe that it is so much that God empowers us to keep his commandments. I believe that God makes us like Himself so that we think, act, feel, and live like Him. In this we never have to worry again about trying to keep any commandment. We simply allow Him to live His own life through us and holiness is the result. I know it seems a subtle difference but it is the key to victory over defeat.

S
Sree

Travis, I am not sure why you are lecturing here about Law. I never said we are called to keep law. I am only saying Law never died, which now you seem to agree! we do not need to keep God's word as a law but live by Spirit. I wrote about law because one of the poster here said Law is abolished which is totally unscriptural and a lie.

Romans 2 :14- Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the Law, do by nature what the Law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the Law, since they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness,

We live the Spirit of the law by obeying the Holy Spirit. Even though we gentiles do not have Law in Christ, our standard of life is so high that it easily surpasses the requirement of Law. Like I said before, Jesus raised the bar of Old Covenant in Sermon on the mount. For example if 10 commandments is jumping a 10 feet high bar then New Covenant standard is jumping 100 feet high bar. When we jump this 100 feet bar, automatically we also cross 10 feet bar! This is how Paul says in Romans 2 that Gentiles will keep the requirement of Law.

The words of Jesus in Sermon on the Mount or in any of the Gospel is not law. To call them law is to call Jesus as liar because he clearly said that his words are Spirit.

John 6:63 - the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

So I call anyone who says Jesus preached law that we are not required to keep is a liar and truth is not in him.

S
Sree


In this we never have to worry again about trying to keep any commandment.

When God says in new covenant he will put his commandments in our minds and then in our hearts. But you are saying we do not need to worry about commandments, only one of them can be true! I know whom to believe.

Hebrews 8 - 10-I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

Writing into mind means God will first give us desire to obey his word. Then writing into our hearts means, God will give us ability to do the same.

When we are born again we get the nature of God because we are now born into God's own family by his own Spirit. This gives us the desire to obey God and be perfect like him. But we are still weak because we live in the same sinful flesh. It is God who strengthens us by empowering us to fight the flesh.

If we are to do nothing to become like Christ then why are we commanded in 1 John 3:3 to purify our self? Why are we commanded in Philippians to workout the salvation? This do nothing Christianity is not Biblical, God does not make us robots when we are born again, we still have our will which we should yield every single day to God. Jesus himself had to deny his will and do Father's will every single day in his life (John 6:38).

T
twayneb

Sreeram: Never meant to lecture anyone. If it seems so I am sorry. I am only trying to give the whole of how I see it.

I do believe the old testament law is done away with because the old covenant has been done away with. My talking about the law was an attempt to show the whole of why I believe this.

I don't believe Jesus was raising the bar so that we could jump a 10 foot bar by instead jumping a 100 foot bar. i believe He was showing the utter futility of thinking we could ever jump God's bar to begin with.

The requirements of the law were that they must be kept 100% in order to demonstrate a righteousness that is acceptable to God. "If any man offends in one part he is guilty of all".

I believe in Romans 2 that Paul is showing that all men have an innate knowledge that there is a God to whom they are accountable and that His law judges all of them. They demonstrate this when they make laws that judge one another. Their own innate sense of right, wrong, and justice belie the fact that they know deep down that they are accountable to judgement so that they are without excuse. Their laws exposed the fact that deep down they knew they were in sin just as the OT law exposed the fact that Israel was in sin.

The point is that He is not calling us to keep laws now. He is calling us to become like Him and allow His life to live through us. If this is the case, then law is totally irrelevant to us. It is in fact a non-issue. We are now living by the very Spirit inside of us that gave the law to begin with. His ways are now written on our hearts. We do by nature the things that we used to do by mandate. It comes not by having higher standards that we now have help to meet. It comes by being transformed into the likeness of the very one who gave the standards or laws to us to reveal our own sinfulness to begin with.

T
twayneb

When we are born again we get the nature of God because we are now born into God's own family by his own Spirit. This gives us the desire to obey God and be perfect like him. But we are still weak because we live in the same sinful flesh. It is God who strengthens us by empowering us to fight the flesh.

If we are to do nothing to become like Christ then why are we commanded in 1 John 3:3 to purify our self? Why are we commanded in Philippians to workout the salvation? This do nothing Christianity is not Biblical, God does not make us robots when we are born again, we still have our will which we should yield every single day to God. Jesus himself had to deny his will and do Father's will every single day in his life (John 6:38).

I am not sure if you somehow got the idea that I was suggesting that we do nothing, or that I was suggesting that there is not a fight against the flesh. Nothing could be further from the truth. But the work of my salvation is primarily in intimacy with the Father as I allow Him to reveal in me the areas that need changed and then I allow Him by His word and the Spirit to change those things in my life so that I become more like Him.

S
Sree


I don't believe Jesus was raising the bar so that we could jump a 10 foot bar by instead jumping a 100 foot bar. i believe He was showing the utter futility of thinking we could ever jump God's bar to begin with.

The requirements of the law were that they must be kept 100% in order to demonstrate a righteousness that is acceptable to God. "If any man offends in one part he is guilty of all".

I totally reject this. When you are saying sermon on the mount is law, you call Jesus a liar who said his words are spirit. Like I said before, a truly born again person will have a desire to obey every word of Jesus. Jesus himself said a person who loves him will keep his commandments. You call Jesus a liar by saying that his commandments cannot be kept. Again I reject your explanation because God's word is the truth and every man made idea is a lie.

I also find no consistency in what you have posted here. You have changed your position multiple times in this single thread.

S
Sree

The main mistake that people make about Sermon on the Mount is, it was not given to the common people who gathered around Jesus. It was given to disciples.

Matt 5:1 - When Jesus saw the crowds, He went up on the mountain; and after He sat down, His disciples came to Him. He opened His mouth and began to teach them, saying,

Luke 6:20 - And turning His gaze toward His disciples, He began to say, "Blessed are [j]you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.

Hence it was the teaching given to the disciples, for them to follow. Jesus was not intending to show anyone how they cannot keep. He was not wasting his time there. He was teaching his disciples how to live God's desire standard in New Covenant.

When I debate with people of other religions, I tell them to read Sermon on the Mount with an unbiased heart. I believe if someone does this, he will really be brought to repentance and will acknowledge that this is the teaching given by God regarding his standard of requirement for his creation.

G
Gloryandgrace


Hi Sree: Well before you decidedly kick me out of the kingdom for having a discussion with you about the law you might want to review the hundreds of other posts Ive made that very clearly speak of sanctification in a believers life. If you're not going to do that, I would caution you about jumping to erroneous conclusions.

So, you like to use the law as a litmus test (my words) so you can gauge yourself whether or not you have kept the word of God; this is being sanctified which you know by way of a continued obedience to various laws.

Ok fine, but Travis and I (not trying to put words in Travis mouth) believe the scriptures point past using the law as a 'litmus test'. The scriptures point us to the indwelling Spirit and our immediate sonship that creates the massive shift in how we know we are obeying God. Our sanctification is understood on a very low level when it is relegated to 'law keeping'. Our sanctification is really our transformation from habits and patterns conforming to the old-self. Our promise is to be conformed to his image Rom 8, but this conformity is supernatural, it's a manifestation of the life of God within us and as it comes to expression in our words, thoughts and deeds others can see our 'sanctification'.

When people see the love of Jesus in us, are they seeing "thou shalt have no other gods before me"? Yes, but not in the form of a command but in the form of our sonship and love for God. When people see our faith in Jesus to save us, are they understanding it as the 'keeping of the law'? I would hope not, because it is not by my keeping of the law that I am justified or sanctified, Jesus is in fact living his life through me...Jesus does not live any other life than the one he lived here on earth, therefore Christ in me and revealed through me is law-keeping at its finest.
1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

and again...
1Jn 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
1Jn 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

So here is a scripture that is astounding in its ramifications...1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

You see, there is no litmus test to be given as to our sanctification...when we do righteousness we are righteous as Jesus when doing it.

Now it is common among some that sanctification checks are necessary because holiness matters a great deal to them and rightly it should. But as John the Apostle teaches us, it is the indwelling Spirit and eternal life...those are what we use as the means to spring-board forward toward more and more obedience...it is not a well-kept record of our righteousness.

I say again the sermon on the mount is what living in relationship to God as a beloved son manifests. Love, sacrifice, prayer, things done are truly for God not to be seen of others, faith and hope in God not in men or your own merits. The high esteem of marriage, the words your mouth, even judging rightly and avoiding the false prophet and his lies.
The beatitudes engage the believer in seeking to imitate Jesus Christ, not to make sure of some 'level' of sanctification has me clear of hell fire.

I would have never thought you would think differently on this matter and would have thought in reading anything Ive written I was confused on sanctification. Hopefully this clarifies?

T
twayneb

Sreeram: I am not sure where you ever got the idea that I was calling the sermon on the mount law. Jesus pointed out that true holiness, true righteousness, who God truly is goes so far beyond the OT law. The Pharisees thought they were righteous because they kept the law. They found their righteousness in their ability to keep the law. It was a self-righteousness. But self-righteousness is as filthy rags. We must have God's righteousness. That was the purpose of the new covenant. It was never given so we could be righteous positionally and go to heaven one day. It was given to transform us into His image. If I have His image and His nature, I don't have to worry about His written laws. I have the Holy Spirit, the law-giver, living through me and He never breaks his own laws. This is where victory is in the Christian life. I hear people say how hard it is to live the Christian life. But I was never called to try to live the Christian life. I was called to die to sin and self and allow God to live through me. I am not trying to live His life. He is my very life. It takes me out of the realm of self-effort and puts me in the realm of His power and His victory. I know it might seem a subtle difference, but it is everything. I can honestly tell you that I am seeing myself transformed by His word and His Spirit right before my very eyes. I am learning that I am not trying to live free from sin by my own efforts. I am dying to self and allowing the sinless one to live in and through me. It really changes everything. No more sin consciousness but singleness of eye as I focus on Him and run after Him with all I have.

Like I said brother, my purpose and aim is never to argue or debate. Never found it fruitful. My purpose was to try to share a truth about the sermon on the mount that has blessed me and transformed my life. If it blesses you then I am happy. If you reject it, then you do so. I really do pray you have a blessed day and that God shows up in your life in a greater and greater way day by day. Be bless brother.

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Christinyou

1 Corinthians 1:30-31 (KJV) But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.


God the Father has made Christ unto Christians all that the Sermon on the Mount is. The life I now live I live by the wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, redemption and faith of Christ.


The sermon on the mount was to confirm that Jesus was the King of the Kingdom that was at hand.


When we get to the House that Jesus is preparing for us, the bar for the Sermon on the Mount will become a very low bar, we will be learning through all eternity how high that bar will go, and still we will never attain the top of the bar otherwise I would have to be God.


Christ is my life not my King although He is King of Kings, yet I would much rather be the Kings brother and servant by birth than just a person under His Kingship.

I am all that Christ is to the Father by my second birth, Born Again with Christ in me: Phillip

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Sree


I am not sure where you ever got the idea that I was calling the sermon on the mount law.

When you said that Sermon on the mount was given to show that we cannot live it, then you call it a law (whether you agree it or not). I disagree with this view and I do not believe there is any truth in what you think about Sermon on the Mount. It is livable in new covenant life. The primary mark of a disciple is to have a desire to please God. When Bible tells us that God works inside us, to desire to keep his commands and you tell otherwise, I will believe in God. It just frustrates me how much people value their theology that they disagree even with God's word. It is just pure arrogance and pride.

The mark of a false teacher or prophet is he will say the teachings of Jesus cannot be kept. There are very few good teachers these days. Tell me how many Church preaches that if you lust after a women you will end up in hell. Hardly no Church, yet Jesus preached it. It is because people think they are more intelligent than Jesus and hence come with ideas like yours. I do not think I am intelligent than Jesus!

Jesus never preached anything that is unattainable. If so Jesus would have never commanded the disciples to teach others what he taught them!

My advice to you is, please do not teach others that God's word cannot be kept. There are plenty of curse in the Bible for people who do so.

C
Christinyou

Galatians 5:1-6 (KJV) Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.


What liberty? The liberty that Christ has set us free in our salvation. This liberty is not license, but freedom.

John 8:36 (KJV) If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

The Law can no longer holds us in bondage, and the Sermon on the mount We take by faith which worketh by Love that Christ has made us thus forth its perfection in us.

Colossians 1:28-29 (KJV) Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

So what is our labour? Is it not striving according according To His perfect works, Which overwhelmingly worketh in us Mightily to do even greater works than He did and these works are by His mighty resurrection power that is birthed in us by the Father; born again Which gives us the right to be called sons of God by His Wisdom, Righteousness, Sanctification and Redemption by His own Faith that we obtained by that Faith unto our salvation.

Ephesians 2:5-10 (KJV) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

These are the good works ordained by God that we should walk in, These are works created by God in Christ Jesus that we might be His workmanship.

In Christ: Phillip

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savannah


OP say,

"To me Sermon on the Mount, is an effort by Jesus to raise the standard set by 10 commandments and prophets. He is raising the bar to a new height..."

Not so!

The scope and drift of this sermon is to teach His disciples, with all that believe in Him, to lead a godly, an holy and a blessed life.

Although this be evident in the text, yet the popish teachers have depraved this end and scope; saying that Christ herein propoundeth a new law, far more perfect than the law of Moses; and also delivereth new divine counsel to His disciples, which was not given in the law or in the prophets.

But they err and are deceived; for Christ’s intent is to clear the true meaning of Moses and the prophets, which was corrupted by the false gloss of the Jewish teachers; and not to add any new law or counsel thereunto, as afterwards will plainly appear (5:17; 7:12).

Again, there cannot be given unto man a more perfect rule than Moses’ law, the sum and scope whereof is to love God with all the heart, with all the soul and with all the strength (Matt. 22:37). William Perkins

The rule which Christ came to establish exactly agreed with the scriptures of the Old Testament, here called the law and the prophets. The prophets were commentators upon the law, and both together made up that rule of faith and practice which Christ found upon the throne in the Jewish church, and here he keeps it on the throne. He protests against the thought of cancelling and weakening the Old Testament; Think not that I am come to destroy the law and the prophets. "Let not the pious Jews, who have an affection for the law and the prophets, fear that I come to destroy them.’’ Let them be not prejudiced against Christ and his doctrine, from a jealousy that this kingdom he came to set up, would derogate from the honour of the scriptures, which they had embraced as coming from God, and of which they had experienced the power and purity; no, let them be satisfied that Christ has no ill design upon the law and the prophets. "Let not the profane Jews, who have a disaffection to the law and the prophets, and are weary of that yoke, hope that I am come to destroy them.’’ Let not carnal libertines imagine that the Messiah is come to discharge them from the obligation of divine precepts and yet to secure to them divine promises, to make the happy and yet to give them leave to live as they list. Christ commands nothing new which was forbidden either by the law of nature or the moral law, nor forbids any thing which those laws had enjoined; it is a great mistake to think he does, and he here takes care to rectify the mistake; I am not come to destroy. The Saviour of souls is the destroyer of nothing but the works of the devil, of nothing that comes from God, much less of those excellent dictates which we have from Moses and the prophets. No, he came to fulfil them. That is, to obey the commands of the law, for he was made under the law, Gal. 4:4 . He in all respects yielded obedience to the law, honoured his parents, sanctified the sabbath, prayed, gave alms, and did that which never any one else did, obeyed perfectly, and never broke the law in any thing. Matthew Henry

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rookie

[2Co 3:9 NKJV] 9 For if the ministry of condemnation [had] glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.

Paul names the Law given to Moses as the "ministry of condemnation".

Paul defines how the "ministry of condemnation" accomplishes what God has willed.

[Rom 7:7-12 NKJV] 7 What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet."

8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all [manner of evil] desire. For apart from the law sin [was] dead.

9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.

10 And the commandment, which [was] to [bring] life, I found to [bring] death.

11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed [me]. 12 Therefore the law [is] holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

The Law given to Moses condemns man as he learns what sin is.

The Sermon on the Mount is something entirely different...

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savannah


"The Sermon on the Mount is something entirely different..."

Not so!

The law of the LORD is perfect, restoring the soul; The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. The precepts of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart; The commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring forever; The judgments of the LORD are true; they are righteous altogether.
They are more desirable than gold, yes, than much fine gold; Sweeter also than honey and the drippings of the honeycomb. Moreover, by them Your servant is warned; In keeping them there is great reward. Psalm 19:7-11

The Law of the LORD is Perfect. Because it is a mirror reflection of God Himself. His character is flawless. This is why Christ Jesus kept the law perfectly. He being the Image of the invisible God. He being the Word made flesh.

Of course it shows us our sin! When we measure ourselves against God and His character we see just how flawed we are, and how far short we fall.

But our aim is to be as Jesus, Who always did those things which were pleasing to His Father. He kept the Law perfectly.

Certainly, none would advocate that we sin (break the law), that grace may abound.

But we know that, if we do sin, we have an Advocate with the Father. He is Faithful and Just to forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness, when we confess our sins.

Praise, honor, and glory be to Him! Amen.

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TrueWitness

I just want to revisit what "law" is. Law is an external demand made upon someone that they must accomplish. The law is given for sinners, not the righteous:

Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 1 Tim. 1:9, 10

The law can and will reveal sin but can do nothing to help someone keep the law. It is powerless to help in that regard. As new covenant believers we have the Holy Spirit indwelling our spirit and it is the nature and character of the HS to express Himself through the life of the believer (who is yielded) this fruit of the Spirit which fulfills all the of law and even exceeds it. So the external standard of conduct which the law had placed on us has been replaced in us by this dynamic walk in the Spirit which is superior to the law. Does the spirit have to be told to not kill or lie or steal. No. It is the nature of the spirit to walk in perfect love. Nothing I have said is antinomian. The spirit supplies in us what the law demanding of us could never accomplish.

Like Travis mentioned, the difference could be seen as subtle and nuanced but it makes all the difference in the world. The law demands and the spirit supplies. However, I know it might be tempting to say that God gives us the Holy Spirit so that we can keep the law but such a statement is misguided. The Spirit living and expressing Himself through us is far better than simple law keeping.

-Daniel

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Sree

There are lot of good views here on Sermon on the Mount. The question I have asked is, what is Sermon on the Mount means to you. But most answers include how to keep sermon on the Mount or whether to really keep it or not. I am not interested in it. I believe that none of the new covenant commandments are to be considered as Law. But commandments that we will desire to keep because we love Jesus who purchased us by his blood. God then works inside us and we workout what God is working inside us, both to desire and empower.

Our theology should never be derived from our personal experience. Theology should be from scripture. But our theology should be supported by personal experience. When we allow personal experience to dictate our understanding of God's word then we end up with all possible wrong theologies.

When Jesus commanded us to teach to observe all that he taught, we should take him by the word instead of applying our personal experience and say that 'His commandments cannot be kept'! This is heresy.

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RogerB

We must first see the events up to this point first. We see the whole world as trapped by the tree of good and evil. No escape by their own means. We have all heard bits of truth and error in our life so the tree we're trapped in is composed of mixture. We get comfortable in this bad tree clinging to a doctrine we've heard. We don't know we need to be set free.

Ask anyone about their salvation and most are content. We have to be set free. Jesus came and laid the ax to the tree. Mercy occurs when he sets you free from that tree. The warning is not to go back to that former way.

Jesus chooses his disciples. They come set at his feet and he begins to wash away (or chop away) the garbage from the past. Like "You have heard.. from the old tree;
but I say unto you. "you are the salt of the earth", yes now you are. And what Jesus teaches is in contrast to the life they were living when they were content with the bad tree. We need to sit at the feet of Jesus. Ask for truth and truth alone. Most of our libraries are filled with books from men with only theories about Jesus. The book stores are full of them. Run from them, don't go back to the mixture.

If you look at Jesus on the day of his death, he said "Father forgive them for they know not what they do". He spoke in truth because almost everyone around was deceived by Satan and still trapped in the bad tree. We must see others as not set free. You will know when they have been freed from that tree, it's systems and reach.
Our strength comes from being set free.. When you've been set free you've been set free indeed.

Jesus lessons to his disciples wash away the old tree. Since the world is overgrown with this bad tree, the narrow path can hardly be found.

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Sree


Ask anyone about their salvation and most are content.

RogerB, I appreciate you sharing the view. But I do not see you mention anything about Sermon on the mount and what it is for you.

Regarding the above quote, I find something wrong with it. A true Christian should not be content with his salvation. Apostle Paul was pressing on to an upward calling by putting the past behind. John tells us to purify ourself in the hope of being confirmed to the likeness of Jesus when we see him face to face. Jesus himself had to pray with loud cry and tears to the One who was able to Save him from Spiritual death during his earthly life. How is that we can be content with our salvation?

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rookie

Savannah wrote:

"Not So!”

Then you proceeded to quote from Psalm 19.

I love the Psalms, especially Psalm 119. The author of Psalm 119 has something more that what the Law of Moses, the ministry of condemnation can give to man.

What I meant about the Sermon on the Mount being something entirely different is that I was drawing a distinction between the reason for the Law of Moses and that of Jesus as He taught the multitude.

[Mat 5:3-10 NKJV] 3 "Blessed [are] the poor in spirit, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 4 Blessed [are] those who mourn, For they shall be comforted. 5 Blessed [are] the meek, For they shall inherit the earth. 6 Blessed [are] those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, For they shall be filled. 7 Blessed [are] the merciful, For they shall obtain mercy. 8 Blessed [are] the pure in heart, For they shall see God. 9 Blessed [are] the peacemakers, For they shall be called sons of God. 10 Blessed [are] those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus declares that there are those who "are poor in spirit,” "are meek,” " are those who thirst for righteousness,” "are the merciful,” "are the pure in heart,” "are the peacemakers,””are those who are persecuted,” these individuals are "Blessed”, Jesus teaches that there are people who are pleasing to God. Jesus teaches that those who are pleasing to God will find heavenly treasures.

By what means are these people able to acquire the nature that is pleasing to God? Psalm 119

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rookie

[Psa 119:49 NKJV] 49 ZAYIN. Remember the word to Your servant, Upon which You have caused me to hope.

What Scripture is commentary on the verse above.

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rookie

[Heb 11:1 NKJV] 1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

This is the answer to the question I asked.

Do you see or am I wrong?

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rookie

[Rom 10:17 NKJV] 17 So then faith [comes] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Do you see how Scripture is the most perfect commentary on Scripture.

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rookie

I have heard many say that Jesus lays down greater requirements, greater revelation in the Sermon on the Mount. Is this true? You be the judge.

[Job 31:1, 9-12 NKJV] 1 "I have made a covenant with my eyes; Why then should I look upon a young woman? ... 9 "If my heart has been enticed by a woman, Or [if] I have lurked at my neighbor's door, 10 [Then] let my wife grind for another, And let others bow down over her. 11 For that [would be] wickedness; Yes, it [would be] iniquity [deserving of] judgment. 12 For that [would be] a fire [that] consumes to destruction, And would root out all my increase.

What Jesus taught in Sermon on the Mount, Job knew.

Remember Scripture is the perfect commentary on Scripture.

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rookie

[Psa 119:1-8 NKJV] 1 ALEPH. Blessed [are] the undefiled in the way, Who walk in the law of the LORD! 2 Blessed [are] those who keep His testimonies, Who seek Him with the whole heart! 3 They also do no iniquity; They walk in His ways. 4 You have commanded [us] To keep Your precepts diligently. 5 Oh, that my ways were directed To keep Your statutes! 6 Then I would not be ashamed, When I look into all Your commandments. 7 I will praise You with uprightness of heart, When I learn Your righteous judgments. 8 I will keep Your statutes; Oh, do not forsake me utterly!

Jesus, when teaching the multitude how blessed those are, who have lived by faith, and have the same heart as the writer of Psalm 119, promised them that they would receive sufficient grace to continue on in their pursuit of the Lord.

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rookie

The Sermon on the Mount describes those who found the righteousness of God. Listen to Paul how he describes the two paths offered by God to Israel.

[Rom 10:2-4 NKJV] 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Most had "zeal," "but not according to knowledge."

What "knowledge" does Paul assert as missing the mark?

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rookie

[Rom 10:5 NKJV] 5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, "The man who does those things shall live by them."

When Paul recognizes that there are those who have a zeal for God, but their error is that they are "seeking to establish their own righteousness," he is pointing to verse 5. He points to the fact that the individual is striving to learn of the righteousness "which is of the law."

Just think of all the rules and traditions that men have established so that one can observe this command...

"The man who does those things shall live by them."

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Sree

Romans 10:4 - 4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes

This is one of the most misunderstood verse in the Bible. Paul is not telling that "Christ is the End of Law", this is a wrong assessment. Paul here tells that Christ is end for Righteousness that comes from law. In other words when a person turns to Jesus, he is not counted Righteous based on the laws but based on his faith in Christ Jesus. A Christian's Righteousness is totally based on what Jesus accomplished for him.

This does not mean a Christian can live without law. That is a totally wrong assessment of the scripture. There is no truth in it.

A lawless life is condemned in New Covenant - 1 John 3:4- Everyone who practices sin practices lawlessness as well. Indeed, sin is lawlessness.

But for a Christian, Sin is even more than lawlessness, it is to fall short of the Glory of God which is shown to him through the life of Jesus. That is why 1 John 3:3 says that there will be a constant repentance and cleansing of anything unchristlike in a Christian.

A truly born again believer will have every desire and zeal to please God by keeping his commandments. This is not to prove himself as Righteous but to please God who made him Righteous!

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rookie

Sree wrote:

"This is one of the most misunderstood verse in the Bible. Paul is not telling that "Christ is the End of Law","

Amen.

You quoted:

[Rom 10:4 NKJV] 4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Paul then explains what he means by Romans 10:4...

[Rom 10:4, 6-7 NKJV] 4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. ... 6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?' " (that is, to bring Christ down [from above]) 7 or, " 'Who will descend into the abyss?' " (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).

And then...

[Rom 10:8 NKJV] 8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach):

Why does Paul quote from Deuteronomy?

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rookie

These are the verses Paul points to in...

[Deu 30:12-13 NKJV] 12 "It [is] not in heaven, that you should say, 'Who will ascend into heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?' 13 "Nor [is] it beyond the sea, that you should say, 'Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?'

Moses says this right before these verses...

[Deu 30:11 NKJV] 11 "For this commandment which I command you today [is] not [too] mysterious for you, nor [is] it far off.


What does Moses and Paul mean by these Scriptures? What "[is] not [too] mysterious..."

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rookie


[Deu 30:11-13 NKJV] 11 "For this commandment which I command you today [is] not [too] mysterious for you, nor [is] it far off.

12 "It [is] not in heaven, that you should say, 'Who will ascend into heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?'

13 "Nor [is] it beyond the sea, that you should say, 'Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?'


About the "mysterious", we know from this Scripture that we are not to seek the answer from men. No one on ground or beyond the sea has what is needed for man to obey "this commandment" which Moses speaks of.


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rookie

[Gal 3:10 NKJV] 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed [is] everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."

Paul describes the Law of Moses as being a "curse". Those who live under the Law of Moses are cursed. Why

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rookie

Paul in another place says:

[2Co 3:15-16 NKJV] 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

Again Paul is talking about the "curse." The "curse" is active while "a veil lies on their heart."

Why can't man remove the "veil", why can't man satisfy the righteous requirement of the Law of Moses?

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rookie

Moses tells the congregation...

[Deu 30:11, 14 NKJV] 11 "For this commandment which I command you today [is] not [too] mysterious for you, nor [is] it far off. ...

14 "But the word [is] very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it.

Moses points to the only way in which man may know how to obey God. What is the nature of the grace that God provides?

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sermonindex

So I believe Jesus goal was to show the futility of self effort, the ineffectiveness of the law, and the need to be born again and then transformed into God's image.

Amen there is great truth in what you are sharing brother that truly without Christ "we can do nothing." Our spirituality needs to be seeking to be like Christ in all things but realizing we cannot do it apart from Him. The sermon on the mount must not be read like a law book but is definetly true and applicable to new covenant believers in the Holy Trinity.

God will make us more like Him if we follow in that desire.

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rookie

"God will make us more like Him if we follow in that desire."

Where does "desire" find it's genesis?

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sermonindex

Where does "desire" find it's genesis?

I would say it starts in the fact that I cannot do anything good apart from God. He is the one that will make me like Him. The early church called this "thesis" which means becoming like God. The main passage we share in regards to this truth in 2 Peter it states that we can become "divine partakers" through the promises of Scripture. And St. Paul speaks of us being conformed to the image of Christ.

Galatians 2:20 is another excellent vantage point for us to see that Christ is in us working this divine life.

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rookie

"I would say it starts in the fact that I cannot do anything good apart from God. He is the one that will make me like Him."

I agree...

To my question "where does "desire" find it's genesis?"

I would point to this Scripture....


[Heb 11:1 NKJV] 1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

I believe this Scripture defines "desire" as "the substance of things hoped for,". So then this "desire" or "substance of things hoped for," then is created by God and not man.

Paul writes in another place...

[1Co 3:6-7 NKJV] 6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase.

Only God can give "the increase." And this "increase" only comes by faith.


So then, where does faith come from? This is the "genesis" of the "desire".

R
rookie

If "desire" is the product of faith, we know that faith is the product of...

[Rom 10:17 NKJV] 17 So then faith [comes] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

So then what does this verse below really mean?

[Rom 10:8, NKJV] 8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach):

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Christinyou

Quote: """Christ is in us working this divine life""".

Praise God Greg.

Without Christ; NOTHING

John 5:19 (KJV) Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

John 15:5 (KJV) I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

2 Corinthians 13:8 (KJV) For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth.

In Christ, In and through the power of His resurrection in us, by what the Holy Spirit is told to do in us; (DO) ALL THINGS

2 Corinthians 12:19 (KJV) Again, think ye that we excuse ourselves unto you? we speak before God in Christ: but we do all things, dearly beloved, for your edifying.

Philippians 2:14 (KJV) Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

Philippians 4:13 (KJV) I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

In the Strength of, by and through Christ: Phillip

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rookie

Hi Phillip

You wrote: In Christ, In and through the power of His resurrection in us, by what the Holy Spirit is told to do in us; (DO) ALL THINGS.”

Yes, this is what Paul is pointing to in Romans chapter 10.

[Rom 10:8-9 NKJV] 8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

"The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”...what famous Scripture talks about who the "word” is?

C
Christinyou

"""Yes, this is what Paul is pointing to in Romans chapter 10""", Amen Jeff

Even more;

The Word: John 1:1 (KJV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The incorruptible Seed: 1 Peter 1:23 (KJV) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The living Word: """ which liveth and abideth for ever. """

The epitome of Christ in you; Colossians 1:27 (KJV) To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

His glory is truly our only glory.

In Christ: Phillip

R
rookie

Going back to the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus teaching the multitudes, it is often said that this teaching is something greater...

Listen to the testimony of a situation which Isaac found himself in.

[Gen 26:19-22 NKJV] 19 Also Isaac's servants dug in the valley, and found a well of running water there. 20 But the herdsmen of Gerar quarreled with Isaac's herdsmen, saying, "The water [is] ours." So he called the name of the well Esek, because they quarreled with him. 21 Then they dug another well, and they quarreled over that [one] also. So he called its name Sitnah. 22 And he moved from there and dug another well, and they did not quarrel over it. So he called its name Rehoboth, because he said, "For now the LORD has made room for us, and we shall be fruitful in the land."

Isaac turned the other cheek multiple times and he state afterwards, "For now the LORD has made room for us, and we shall be fruitful in the land."

This reminds me of another Scripture...

[Pro 16:7 NKJV] 7 When a man's ways please the LORD, He makes even his enemies to be at peace with him.

Might I suggest that this outcome is a product of faith and not of works.

R
rookie

Again have you considered the testimony of Joseph? Joseph’s life is an illustration of the Sermon on the Mount; turning the other cheek.

Joseph lived before the Law of Moses was given, what Law did he follow?

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