I am so sick of the spirit of negativity on this forum!

Well done, Neilgin1 Halleluah, Praise the Lord for he is Holy and is seated at the right hand of the Father. Glory to him who is seated with the Angels all around him crying Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lamb that was slain. AmenIt is late here in the UK but I hope to come back with more.....ellie

Neilgin1, I was just thinking the same thing during the middle of the day. I like to cross swords to strengthen what I believe, but I think we should realize we are all for the same Saviour. The same God and Father, the same Spirit, the same kind of trust in Christ. John R Rice has a great sermon called "Paul Rejoices Over Enemies" that is about this very thing. If you have honest guilt over deciding doctrine, or what to think about other believers on the far end of your own "weird" scale, this sermon is a must. John Rice was about as fundamental as you could get, but he loved people so much. I think we should be the same way. Anxious to defend the faith, but more anxious to love one another. Anxious to figure out our own statement of beliefs, but more anxious to get people saved. Someone told John R. Rice, "Brother Rice, when you get all the people agreeing together, then you can have revival." To which Dr. Rice replied, "No, then you've got the millenium, my brother." This sermon edifies the body, as well as me. I think we should preach repentance, law, and sin, then grace and mercy, but we can't forget brotherly love. 1 Corinthians 13, my brothers.John Rice: Paul Rejoices Over Enemies(this site)https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=20

Good post Neil.I too have a suggestion that will seem almost simplistic. But I've found from my own experience that a good cure for a nagative attitude is the whole download section on this site :-) . The sermons here have been an avenue of the grace of God teaching me humility.

I'd give you a holy kiss if you were any closer! I've enjoyed this post greatly. What I appreciate about Brainerd in his teachings was how commonsense he made them. Like the area of repentance, He said the area of repentance should be equal to the area of transgression. This is how I understand it.If my sin involves just one onther person Directly, I go to that person and ask forgiveness, if it's just ---- say a negative thought about that person and wasn't expressed, I go to God . I've seen so many people ask others for forgiveness who had no idea they even needed to forgive that person. I've seen it in the context of congregations too. Ended up doing more harm than good. As an aside , I've always thought about Edward's daughter and her sacrifice, I think that somehow the Lord spared no expense in the comfort He gave Brainard at the expense of Edward's daughter Jerusha. What a sacrifice! What a testomony! God Bless ya Brother. Bro. Daryl

Seeing as I love to give you gears about the things you say I'll give my perspective on things.You say that you can't tell much about a person or see their heart attitudes about things, I will disagree with you on that one. You see it is not what you say that I personally will challenge you about, but its the way you say them. I feel and have felt that on any position that you take a stand on, your style of expression gives no room for another position or a different way seeing something. Its like 'thats it and thats that'. Well you could say that it is in the bible, well according to the bible someone caught in adultery deserved death, but Jesus did'nt condemn the lady. He said go sin no more. For all intense purposes the pharisees and the rest of the crowd that were with them were right. She deserved death, but God has other ideas. Its about truth, but more importantly the correct application of that truth. Get my drift?Like you said we can't really judge your character based on what you write but I certainly can see if you tolerate those that disagree with you. Its tone Krispy, and like Neil has said before it is a five hundred pounds worth of personal tone/opinion. I enjoy your fiestiness, and your heart is good, but coming from one who also calls a spade a spade, sometimes the sheep need a little room and grace to take things in. I know this is a personal message on a public forum, but I feel your post needed a public response. For I sense, not wanting to be to presumptious, that I may be speaking for allot of people who have said something to you.Attempting to honour you,

Why is it that when someone stands up and calls a spade a spade like Krispy did, he is called spitefull and negative... I believe that in posting his message Krispy has alerted some people who may believe the "gospel of Osteen" to take a closer look. We all claim to follow Christ, take a look in Matthew 23 to see how He responded to error by the religious leaders of His day....Greg :roll:

Hi, I wrote a PM to KrispyKrittr some days ago and then I had to send two more PM's, to appologise to him because I had been too hasty.He is right in that we do not know what goes on behind the scenes.So KrispyKrittr, I appologise publicly here to you.ellie

Smokey wrote:We all claim to follow Christ, take a look in Matthew 23 to see how He responded to error by the religious leaders of His day....I think the major difference Greg, is that he was speaking directly to them. He was not standing up in the cogregation of like minded saints telling of the evils of the pharisiacal holiness club.

KrispyKrittr wrote:Basically what I am saying is I am not the only one who has a responsibility to be tolerant and patient as we all wade thru this together.Get my drift, bro?To a certain degree, yes. ;-) Now its just a question of where we are all going to sit at a banquet and who will get off the soapbox first.

ZekeoPerhaps Luke 12:1 is a better example of our Savior exposing error. There are many many instances where Jesus warned those following Him to watch false teachings..I can look them all up, and post them here, but I think you get the point. IT IS NOT WRONG TO EXPOSE ERROR. There should be more of it in Christian circles, then maybe some of this false teaching would have been left at the door, and not be infecting our houses of worship.

Zeke,I am much in agreement with you here. It has alot to do with tone and attitude.I also posted something quite awhile ago about my concern over the Osteen following. And I am still concerned over it- not him, but it- the message.Like I told Krispy in a pm, I do not dislike Osteen, and do feel we need to respect him as a human being and love him, I do believe that the message he preaches - which is what Tozer and Wilkerson calls counterfeit christianity- should be called for what it is.It is heart breaking to see people flocking to this kind of gospel and believing that this is the gospel. My heart breaks for the Lord. He deserves His glory and the obedience and honor of His people in a real way.No, we should not knock "people" per se-The trouble is that the real truth, the real gospel is available, but many are a little blinded by the counterfeit and also there is alot of mixture of both.My heart grieves over the thousands that are believing that they are following the christian life because they may be following the principles in books such as Osteen's. This doesn't mean I hate him or think he is a bad man. But the fact is that he is deceiving people. Should we just keep our mouths shut about it all?Yes, we should present the truth, we should give examples of great men and women who have gone before us, this helps tremendously with helping people have discernment, but, like Tozer and Wilkerson, we need to expose some false beliefs and false gospels. We can probably do that without mentioning names, I suppose.Again I am reminded of working out our own salvation with fear and trembling- but that salvation includes obedience to what the Lord lays on our hearts about proclaiming the true gospel too.When we post or try to expose things that are false, it must be done prayerfully and thoughtfully- with God's glory in mind. I definitely agree with Neil as well! We should be looking to the ones who HAVE lived their lives sold out to Christ. That is what I am doing with my own children. Hoping it will help them with their discernment as they get older. But I will also warn them of what is false because the false can seem so good and sweet that it overshadows the sacrificial lives of those who have gone before us.Just my 2 cents :)In Christ, Chanin

Progress! Praise God you good people...Think Zekeo hit it on the crux of it: "Tone". And it is the usual culprit that gets things in such disarray. It is also wrought with it's own inherent problems, because it is often difficult to "hear" that through this medium, not always but at times. "Care" would be maybe a good word to interject, not an egg shell walk, but just some understanding that this is out before all to partake in and some consideration of how and which words we are choosing to convey our expressions.Read through both 1 and 2 Timothy this morning after a pretty healthy dose of Job. Felt led to these and the correlations were interesting.Reading Job's replies as his 'friends' were dragging him further down with their doctrine and 'helps', it got to the point where I couldn't bear listening to them and just concentrated on Job's comments, complaints and didn't find it to difficult to see things from his perspective. If it was you or I how might have we reacted? Despite it all, the moments where he still stubbornly refused to let go of God and interspersed great articulation to Gods glory and Soverignty... maybe moments of clarity while he was trying to grasp just what was happening to himself?Jumping over to Timothy, much said towards arguing over words.. to no profit and many times the exhortation is what is trying to be expressed here:2Ti 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 1Ti 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: 2Ti 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 2Ti 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. I guess what I picked up out the combinations, was that often times there is the sad tendency to act in a manner more often like Job's friends or to get bogged down in things that end up being of no real use whatsoever, only causing strife and division, controversy for controversy's sake. This is just in general and just some musing over it all. One of the stronger moments that struck me was in this:1Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 1Ti 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. I'll leave it at that, thought it was very applicable.P.S. Thanks Krispy for sharing more about yourself, Jeep?, 80's hair bands? Fishing... 8-)

I am so sick of hearing which believer thinks of that deceiving pastor or which believer thinks about this or that "corrupted" text.enough. I don't have the answer to what motivates someone to look for the bad in everything I can't relate, I always try my personal best to look for the good it make me a much happier person, and I don't know if it is from our childhood or an illness or perfectly normal. I was told one time by a friend years ago he thought it "might" be a lot of anger built up inside or the "little man" syndrome were you tear down others to build yourself up and I don't know if that is true, just sharing what feedback I have personally received from someone. There will always be critics of anyone or anything I just choose not to be one or participate in tearing down but I do choose to be someone to edify and lift up and it really does help me, I feel healthier and happier for being that way. I will say this if you feel like your called to bring out or expose the wrong doings of folks in life that is totally between you and God and I would be the last person to tell you that your wrong because that would be like saying God is wrong, but I really think that if you are called to expose the bad I would be mighty careful and use a lot of tact in doing so. Knowledge of God's Word and His love for us give us the boldness to walk with confidence, It builds us up. When something is "built up," it is "edified." God wants us to be edified, and He wants us to edify others. The body of Christ will continue to need building up until Christ returns. I just feel we have been called to stand together in one body, and should get busy building it up. Romans 15:1 and 2 say "We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Let every one of us please his neighbor for his good to edification." People are built up as we use our strengths to strengthen them, but I do realize this is all just my personal opinion and I do respect the opinions of others, and I also no doubt respect anything they feel God has called them to do, just as I would want folks to respect me for what I feel I was called to do, my responsibility is to be sure that the things I do in my own life glorifies God, This promotes a peace in my heart.God BlessMr. Bill :-)

Perhaps it would be good to fine-tune our understanding of negative versus positive. We humans tend to be subjective creatures – evaluating things from our own senses. For example, while we feel gloomy because our picnic is being rained out, the farmer is rejoicing that his fields are receiving rain. I think that there is a place to embrace the negatve - even if it is unrefined and disturbing. Should we not be grateful that there are some who look intently at the negative, who look for the germ that causes the disease, who expose the roots of weeds, who somehow allow our hidden motives to be exposed (even if through the crude words of our children)? Should we not be glad for light of the Spirit shining on the dark corners of our hearts even if it makes us feel miserable? Aught we not to be grateful for those throughout history who expose error – even at the risk being labelled an annoyance? Are we not glad that Jesus was lifted up - with all the shame and ugliness – in order that we could be saved? While there is great power and value in positive thinking, it will never lead us to the cross. Scripture reminds us that the society that doesn’t want God (via the cross) wants instead to have positive messages that tickle the ears. They want to have fun and comfort. To some extent, I include myself in that lot – because I am a product of society. I must admit, I get disturbed by those who seem to be carry a “chip” (weight) on their shoulders while never expressing a hint of gratitude over God’s sovereignty and goodness. I’d love to shake them up and give them a lesson on positive thinking. But that is not God’s way. I think we need to allow risks rather than take control of others. In my past I have been on forums that were heavily controlled – making sure that no negative words were expressed. In doing so, they placed themselves on a slippery slop leading down into deception – all the while squelching any warnings, and accusing God’s messengers of having a negative spirit. We are all works in progress – and haven’t arrived yet. We see through a glass but dimly. Perhaps intense prayer is better than intense control. Diane

Thomas a Kempis wrote: "Search not who spoke this or that, but mark WHAT is spoken. Men pass away, but the "truth of the Lord endureth forever." Ps. 117:2 God speaks to us in sundry ways, without respect of persons. Rom. 2:11; 10:12 God can and does use flawed vessels. Now, how much more positive can you get. (not to negate the serious concern regarding false or misinformed preachers and teachers)Diane

roadsign wrote:God can and does use flawed vessels. You Bet! I am one, and I have yet ran across an unflawed vessel yet, but I have come across a few that thought they were. :-P

A quote by Art Katz: If we love the Lord and his church … we need to be exceedingly jealous of anything that threatens its character and its call. Better to err in attempting an assessment than just silently passing over and letting the things work its way out of whatever incalculable damage it might do. From the video: Turning Aside to See

Quote:"There are many many instances where Jesus warned those following Him to watch false teachings..I can look them all up, and post them here, but I think you get the point. IT IS NOT WRONG TO EXPOSE ERROR."First of all, can we use Jesus as an example of how we can act concerning exposing error? Jesus knew peoples heart for sure. There wasn't any chance of Him being wrong. We may sometimes think we're calling a spade a spade but could actually be calling a diamond a spade. We, unlike Jesus, can be wrong. What we are confident is error may not be. It's one thing to expose what you believe to be error to those whom you are pastoring, whom you are responsible for. It's another to just throw it out there in the general public for all to see and be influenced by. Has God called you (any one individual) to be pastor of the entire Church? I think the biblical model reveals that exposing error may be acceptable in the following circumstances:- To those whom God has given you authority over (ex. a pastor to his flock [like Jesus in the Luke 12 example] or an apostle to his church)- In private to those who ask your personal opinion- To the face of the one you have a disagreement with-And there's one more scenario I can think of that is obvious (and probably rarely, if ever, occurs in this context) but worth stating: If you get a sure leading from God to do so. Not you really, really think God is probably leading you to say it, but you know in full faith. Like if God came in His manifest presence or sent an angel or you heard His audible voice. I think this was likely the case with the Old Testament prophets. The Word of the Lord came to them. (Some may consider themselves watchmen as in Ezekiel 33:6. Is this still applicable in our day? And even if it was, we need to look at the next verse. Ezekiel 33:7"Now as for you, son of man, I have appointed you a watchman for the house of Israel; so you will hear a message from My mouth, and give them warning from Me." Ezekiel didn't just think it was a good idea to be a watchman, God Himself clearly appointed him as such.) Outside of those scenarios I mentioned above, I question whether such things are acceptable. If I'm missing a scenario, which I could be, please show me.I don't know much about Joel Osteen, I've seen him a little bit on t.v. But I bet those who bash him publically would be shamed if they knew him as God does. Who knows what kind of heart of worship and devotion he has towards God? Who knows how much good he does? How much he loves his family and flock. How much he gives to the poor. We might think, "Well if he knew God so well, God would show him his errors." Are you sure about that? If that's true, then who really knew God, Wesley or Whitefield? Spurgeon or Finney? Isn't it clear that the New Testament way is predominantly love? And love hopes and believes all things. It gives the benefit of the doubt and thinks and hopes the best for people. If you see a fat person, love probably thinks things like, "Oh, God, help them. They probably have a genetic predisposition to being overweight. They probably really want to be thin and have tried really hard but just haven't been able to get there yet. Thank you God for the grace I have on my health. The devil is probably really keeping them in that bondage. Oh, God, help them!"But the old man, priding itself on "being real", probabaly would think, "Wow, they're really fat! They are probabaly really lazy. They probably just like food too much and don't try hard enough to discipline themselves. They probably have resisted God in trying to get them healthy. They need to get with it because they aren't glorifying God like that." Sure, there is an appropriate time and place to expose error, but we must let love and wisdom guide us. Despite what the old man may think, despite it's sincere desire to control people and situations (even for good), love never fails. We need to love people and trust God to take care of the rest.

I ,like you, have a somewhat of a romanic flair in that story and I believe it would be an excellant script to pen. Who knows , maybe someone like cloud9 or Billy Grahams origanization would pick up on that script and produce it. You just never know really until you start down that path. God Bless you, and may He restore all the years that the cankerworm has eaten and give back to you that which was stolen. Your Bro. in Christ Daryl

Krisp brother...It's not the content but the delivery, that's all.All of us or many of us, this rambler as well, have failed in poor choice of words to express our concerns. A backtrack through some of our earlier postings would bear this out, even Neil would have to admit to as much.I get ripped up cuz I quote Osteen denying scripture on CNN, which is broadcasted to every corner of the world ... but according to some on here, we're supposed to ignore it.Not true brother, that last part. Goodness, nobody is propagating a sticking our head in the sand, a denying of much that is certainly out of whack with just the plain teachings of scripture, out of balance, prosperity 'teachings', WOF,... on infinitum. Nor are you getting 'ripped' for that. Nor as it was expressed earlier here that there is some kind of controlling aspect as to "No Negativity" (I realize that was not expressly attributed here). It's just in the manner, name calling and making assumptions to prove a point are just unecessary that's all. It's funny how these things keep coming back to what Ron spoke about...wish I could find that thread again... Where everything has to be put into a for/against construct when the issue is something entirely different.You changed the subject title, extracting out the unneeded, which was good, but then you put words back into his mouth by this, the new title here: Joel Osteen doesn't believe John 14:6 and I had to chuckle... it's better than the former ;-) But it's still a presumption to make a point, maybe he does believe it, maybe he doesn't, maybe he chickened out under pressure, it's all speculation. It's one thing to deal with what was said, something else to that which was not. See what I mean?But as to the content and the whole of this sort of teaching, certainly would have very much a problem with most things I have heard from this ministry. Have watched his father on past occasions and usually have had a rather sinking feeling on the rare times I have come across this, my wife likes him and I can see where many do, but you are right in that this is very far from the scriptures in the over extending of what our lives are to be as Christians. It's way out of balance amongst other problems.The biggest disparity I have seen in so many ministries is just the dishonesty in dealing with the whole counsel of God, all that scripture teaches. Instead there are these 'specialist' or concentrated area's that build whole doctrines and churches around themes or just one small, narrow corridor of thinking.We err in going the opposite extreme sometimes by wanting everyone to conform to our own way's of ministry (Don't get me wrong here, I am going off into generalities again) and then we are right back into the whole for/against mode.Something that I find great about this site is that it can pull from many different streams that come out from the the core of just 'normal' Christianity without making it 'denominational', leaglistic, whatever stereotype we are want to put it into. Hope it always stays that way, impossible to narrow it into a corner.But for all that, I doubt for instance if we were to build a church around the motif of say The Voice of the Martyrs, that it would ever become a Mega Church, not enough happiness to draw anybody to that....

I guess us that attend Lakewood Church it hits a little closer to home, but I also realize we all have a right to express our opinions, but regardless of whatever he said, don't we have the duty as Christians to forgive and forget and move on? by the way what ever happened to forgiving and forgeting are they still around? haven't heard much from them to lately. :-P

"... I dont have ought against him. "He as a leader has more responsibility and more is expected of him by the Father. If he don't know how to get to heaven or what get's you to hell. What qualifys him as a guide, to take you are me anywhere?

The Bible clearly teaches that ALL men may be saved, and the only way to Heaven is by faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross of Calvary. Salvation is not determined by good works, baptism,your pastor, church membership or by any other personal work. If you are depending on these things to get you to Heaven, you are not going! Jesus Christ said himself in John 14:6 "I am the way, the truth and the life; no man cometh unto the Father but by me." Your eternal destiny was not decided for you before your birth or at the time of it. Salvation is a personal matter, and it is something you must make sure of before your death in order to claim Heaven as your home. Salvation is a personal matter

KrispyKrittr wrote:Sorry if you disagree Bill... I'm not coming against you. Honest.KrispyAnd I sincerly believe your not, but is there really any Pastor that we know of that has not said or done something that we could pick apart if we wanted to? just find one and post his name here and I bet after a little research on the "world wide web" we could dig up something I just was not "Born To Dig". :-P P.S.O I lied a bit "I Dig Jesus" :-?

KrispyKrittr wrote:You're trying to color people's thoughts about me... let's not go there. KrispyO Krispy, I got your color in my thoughts and it the color of Love. :-P

"Your eternal destiny was not decided for you before your birth or at the time of it."actually in the word there is the small matter of Jacob and esau. God hated one and loved the other,before they were born. It also talks about predestination, and that Jesus"you have not choosen me,but I have choosen you." He also knew you before the foundation of the world was layed. Ephesians 1:4I also like that I have nothing that wasn't given to me, It's a gift

WOW! not to much that can be added to that. I believe God does raises up ministries that sound the alarm when something like ,any ministry starts to go astray or is off the mark in thier basic doctrine. Very good post, very informative article. Bro. Daryl

KrispyKrittr wrote:Actually... black is my favorite color. (Earnhardt fan)KrispyO no! Earhardt fan? I take back everything I said about you, now I know there is some good there. :-?

Neilgin1 wrote:Positively DangerousJoel Osteen may mean well, but when he preaches the power-ofpositive-thinking at the Charlotte Coliseum in March, tens of thousandscould be led astrayAre better yet they could be lead to the Lord, can't live life on could be's because Gods ways are not our ways you never know what he is up to, are then again "some" might. :-(

Neil, I have a question for you: how do you respond to the writings of the prophets of the Bible, OT and NT? (including the writings of the disciples).Just wondering...ginnyrose

Quote:"...can't live life on could be's because Gods ways are not our ways you never know what he is up to..."Well said. I don't find it shocking that God uses different men in different ways and gives them different emphasis in their message at different times and seasons. As far as I can tell, we don't have lots of examples of New Testament preachers and their messages in the Bible. Paul was an apostle, and he had a message that God had given him to share in his own way. And even then, Paul's preaching wasn't always the same all the time. For example, he preached using lots of good argument and reason at Mars Hill (see Acts 17:22-34) but then when he went on to Corinth, he ended up preaching very differently, seeminly only emphasizing the simple message of Christ, and Him crucified, and demonstrating the power of God (see 1 Cor. 2:1-5). But really, how many examples do we get to see of New Testament preachers? Who knows if Andrew, Nathaniel, or other of the disciples emphasized certain aspects of the truth for certain seasons? Maybe some of their ministry emphasis over their life would be predominantly characterized by the importance of positive thinking. And even if this wasn't the case, even if they were all the same, that wouldn't rule out the possibility of God raising up someone totally different with a totally different or even new emphasis. Many people are looking for one certain type of cookie-cutter model of what a "true man of God" will be like. They might think, "A prophet will look thin but strong, have a good manly beard, wear old dirty clothes, maybe smell a little, and preach on the street corner in a 'fire and brimstone' style." But then when God raises up a prophet who doesn't fit their ideas of how a prophet would be, they might easily get offended at the package and reject him. What if God chooses an overweight, rich, gentle man to be a prophet, just to reveal mens hearts? He has a reputation of breaking molds, especially those of tradition and religion. I can just imagine someone back in David's time:"David! You can't tell people that one thing you have asked from God and seek, to be in the house of the Lord all the days of your life to behold God's beauty and meditate in His temple! There's things to be done! People that hear that might become lazy and be led astray!" (See Psalms 27:4)Or maybe in Jesus' time somone (probably Peter ;-)) might say:"Jesus, you can't correct Martha for being busy and doing all this work for You. And then on top of that, you tell her that only a few things are necessary, really only one! And that Mary chose the good part by just sitting at Your feet, doing nothing! Far be it from You Lord! If the people get hold of this, they'll get lazy. There's work to be done for the Kingdom out there!" (See Luke 10:38-42)As was said, His ways are not our ways. He is God and we are not and we would be wise not to limit Him to our own ways of thinking.

I'm really sticking my big foot in now. But I was just wondering if the discussion could be continued in a new thread just so the title, which suggests negativity doesn't keep popping up. There are some great thoughts being expressed which do not reflect the mood of the title, and I doubt that any of us would like newcomers to think right off that this is primarily a negative forum, cause it's not! (usually) I hope I'm not too out of place here. I really appreciate all the words here in this thread, and to me, the positive spirit is much stronger than any negitive spirit. Diane

I vote to re-name it "No one is perfect"Jesus didn't come to save self-made perfect people. He came to save sinners perfected through His own sacrifice! ;-)

dorcas wrote:Hey MrBillPro,I hope you were joking... 'cos if not, I'd like to draw your attention to God's take on your statement, (which I've titled this response).Jesus set a high standard: We must be as perfect as our Heavenly Father! (Matt. 5:48) However, God wouldn't have sent Jesus if humans could make themselves perfect through their own good works and human effort. That's what Jesus was for! For under the law we face condemnation. The wages of sin is death! Thank God we can be released from carrying the heavy burden of past sins! Thank God that if we ever stumble, amazing grace is like God's hand breaking our fall so we don't perish. As long as our eyes stay focused on God and our savior Jesus Christ, we cannot go wrong! This constant focus or faith is what makes us perfect enough to walk on water as Peter did. It is when Peter took his eyes off the savior and lost his faith that he started sinking in the water.

Neil, you just mentioned how you are sick of the negativity on this BB. So now I wonder which parts of the scriptures you read?Actually, I am sick and tired of apostasy around me. So, how do I cope with it without being called a spoilsport and yet desiring to be faithful to my LORD and Master, Jesus Christ? I do appreciate it when people warn me of false teachers. BTW, have you ever been mislead, deceived? I have. And Neil, it is awful when you realize it. I have had an awful time forgiiving myself. It ain't funny when you see how dumb you were. Oh, you wanted something positive: here goes: Jesus is faithful! He had a of patience with me and showed me where I was wrong...taught me a lot. PTL!!!!! And you know what the greatest antidote is to deception? The study of the WORD with the Holy Spirit giving you illumination! No, I do not want to debate you, Neil. It just appears to me you are tired and we all get that way at times. We get weary. Just do not give up the fight...someday this war will come to an end and then in eternity we will think how trival this realy was. Blessings,ginnyrose

I get the feeling that Neil wasn't talking about exposing error or contending for the truth; rather, the haughty attitude that we express when we seek to expose something false. It's that attitude that stinks of pride. I've felt that evil delight in my heart before of being right at the expense of another in error when I should have exposed it with tears. Oh I was correct, about the facts that is, but I couldn't have been more wrong in my own heart. The plank was firmly in my eye.We should warn, and we should do it passionately. But we need to remember that God has no delight in the death of one who dies and neither should we (Ezek. ch18).Brothers and sisters, we've got such a short amount of time here, let's build each other up in the most holy faith.In Christ,Jeremy Hulsey

Perfectly said Jeremy

Hulsey wrote:I get the feeling that Neil wasn't talking about exposing error or contending for the truth; rather, the haughty attitude that we express when we seek to expose something false. It's that attitude that stinks of pride. I've felt that evil delight in my heart before of being right at the expense of another in error when I should have exposed it with tears. We should warn, and we should do it passionately. But we need to remember that God has no delight in the death of one who dies and neither should we (Ezek. ch18).What a great point, Hulsey! I've heard several messages concerning Jesus' arrival to Jerusalem -- and how Jesus wept before he whipped. Jesus never rebuked someone with an "I told you so" attitude. He rebuked (even the pharisees) in perfect love. Sadly, there are some who perceive any type of reproof or warning as a "negative" attitude. These believers sometimes shut their ears to advice or correction, which later could help them grow in the faith. There are also those who are just so tired of what they see or perceive as offensive to Christ -- that they are always willing to speak loudly about it. Sometimes, they don't season their message in order to make it less offensive. They pride themselves in being an abrasive sort of "John the Baptist" -- forgetting that John was filled with love for those who were lost. There can be a danger with either attitude. One person could be "proud" of his or her own righteousness. The other person could be "proud" of his own lack of or hatred for self-righteousness (the "at least I am not self-righteous like you" attitude).To me, the correct attitude is to love unconditionally -- enough to speak the truth. Anyway, I appreciate your post. Have a wonderfully blessed day!:-) -ChrisMatthew 5:8

The flip side is that too many in the church today think it better to tolerate error than to look ugly defending the truth.Would only add that for all of this here not everything need to be taken as personal attacks one way or the other. For instance, a part of this got brought up by particular usage of verbs and nouns that were an expression of grief and may have sounded like that 'haughty spirit'. It doesn't make it right to slander even if that was never the intent, just that it can give that appearance by poor choice of words, been there, done that. Fully realize the dander getting up and as it was mentioned elsewhere here, those that have been caught up in a lot of false doctrine, who have experienced it first hand, not just from afar are likely to be more vocal about it. For us it's a matter of getting to the root of the issue without being consumed by grief over it or becoming bitter, haughty, wrong headed, wrong spirited.We are learning a lot through all this and think it is showing more and more as we wrestle out that difficult inflection that can't be heard here into words typed in this setting. I thank God for the willingness to push through all these difficulties here, for clarifying our remarks and retracting and making things right or at least attempting to do so.There is no doubt that there is much to grieve over in so much that is compromising the truth in our day. Woke up with this heavy on the heart again today.

Lets build something out of this mud, after all God took dirt and here we are. 8-)

Wow! Neil that was powerful!

Thanks for the enlightenment! I agree.I love this site and the forums. Some may decry the negativism, but let me tell you something. I have participated on another forum associated with a popular woman's magazine and if you state your understanding of 'social' issues and back it up with Bible, you will get trounced badly and horribly. Some people there are mean. In comparison people disagreeing on this forum are gentle, IMHO. But then, you know when you have animosity in your heart and when that needs to be repented of. IMHO, this forum is an oasis in the midst of a rough storm called life!ginnyrose

I just realized this, but it seems that the title of this thread suggests that this thread is negative about negativity. How funny!I think that the thread (as threads tend to do) has somehow deviated from the intent of the original post. Neilgin1 seems to have wanted to begin a thread discussing some great men of God (in this case, David Brainerd). There are many wonderful threads on this website that discuss testimonies of men and women who were great examples in the faith that many of us find wonderfully uplifting and encouraging!However, I might also interject that just because a topic or post is deemed negative (as a warning, reproof or discussion) doesn't necessarily make it bad. Remember, the Word of God (including the New Testament) is filled with words of warning and reproof. The purpose of including such things in the Word is for our own benefit -- that we might grow. Removing such discussion from this website might actually do more harm than good. I have been encouraged and rebuked by many things on this board -- and I thank God for that!I suppose that if each of us expressed what we really believed about certain doctrines, sermons, preachers or messages -- we might become terribly offended. Each of us come from different backgrounds and we are all at different places on our spiritual pilgrimage through life. There are preachers and doctrines that at one time I held dearly -- that I now reject. Invertly, there are preachers and doctrines that I used to dismiss that I now embrace. Of course, as always, the key is to test everything. Perhaps we should all realize that we are all human, prone to error, and that none of us is above or below anyone else. That way, we would be slow to offend, and also slow to become offended. I thank God for this website and for the fellowship of believers found here! The resources available here have helped me grow considerably. And I also thank God for these discussion boards. I don't always comment on all of the controversial topics, but I often dig into the Word to find the certainty of my beliefs. :-) -ChrisJeremiah 29:11-13