Reparations for Slavery in America. Biblical World View?

Right now the United States government, and many candidates running for President in 2020 are discussing the need for the American people to pay reparations to African-Americans for the scourge of chattel slavery in America that existed from the mid-1600’s until 1865.

I am just curious what your thoughts are on this from a Biblical world view.

It's a good question and could lead to some serious discussion. One question is the sovereignty of God. Why did He allow this to happen to a certain race of people in the first place? But the Lord is likely to be left out of the discussion in any substantial way even though ministers may appear on behalf of reparations. It was wrong what was done but what to do now is the question I guess. How much would each person or family receive? Giving large sums of money to people, if that's the way it would be done, can also have negative results also because not all would handle it wisely. Many things to consider.

One thing that comes to my mind right away when thinking on this subject is that those who are pushing for reparations are in the forefront of those who support abortion on demand for any reason, gay marriage and the LGBT movement. The support for abortion as coming from the progressive black Congressional caucus if you will has cost over twenty million black lives at this point. Yet they are in the lead of those calling for reparations. Ironic to say the least. On this subject, are we as Christian morally obligated to support reparations along with these people who have such a world view?

Thank you for your well thought out and worded response. A lot to contemplate. I appreciate it. Hopefully others will also offer some insight.

I am asking this question with no agenda. I simply dont know what the proper Biblical response should be to this topic. I am looking to learn from all of you.

Slavery was a terrible scourge on our nation and a very great price was paid in human lives during the Civil War. It is a dark chapter in our history and thankfully it is over 150 years behind us.

I'm not sure what the idea of reparations will do at this point other than to foster the victim mentality that is already so prevalent and hindering many. If you see yourself as a victim that is all you will ever be.

I really appreciated Ben Carson's testimony about how his mother taught him to never see himself as a victim; and if anyone could think of themselves as a victim it was her, she had a rough upbringing and marriage. But she taught her boys otherwise and Ben became a world famous neuro-surgeon and eventually ran for president. This is the kind of message that African-American youth need to hear.

For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: (Proverbs 23:7a)

How about verses about being content. I can’t imagine any Christian African American in favor of reparations.

Slavery occurred 200 years ago.

This effort for reparations is being led by the liberal progressive wing of the Congressional black caucus and ministers like Rev Al Sharpton and the like. The black community found itself locked out of opportunity and equality especially after World War II. It was mainly white liberal pastors who finally joined with Martin Luther King etc. and his efforts for civil rights. Many liberal ministers marched with Dr. King. The white conservative church of the day was basically absent from any calls to end segregation based on race and even in many instances was itself biased against the black race in America. Gradually the black civil rights movement turned to those willing to help which was the government and social and religious liberals. Eventually what started out as perhaps a true spiritual movement for freedom in the black church became a political movement petitioning government to make things right. It sort of got stuck there and to a large degree the religious leadership in the black community has followed the trend and supports abortion rights, gay marriage etc. True ministers in the black community who preach from the scriptures, and there are more than acknowledged, and stand against such things are not given the time of the day by the media. So all you basically see in the media is the liberal wing and their efforts who always stress getting the government to do things and you think that is the only thing going. The "white church" missed a real opportunity back in the 1940s, 50s and 60s to make their voice heard in regards to civil rights but as stated many within this section of the church were prejudice themselves.

Good responses all. Docs, your history on this is exceptional. Thank you for sharing that. There were a few things in what you wrote that I had not considered before.

Just so everyone knows, I am not for reparations for all the reasons that the others have listed.

I did not want to give the impression that I think everything is just hunky dory or that there has not been tons of injustice in the past and now. I’ve been listening to a podcast called "white lies” about the murder of a white civil rights worker in Selma by thugs and the lack of justice he received due to blatant and disgusting racism from judges, attorneys, the sheriff and his racist posse and the regular folks- none who would testify against the killers who were known.

Anyway it’s a fascinating and sad story.

But reparations is throwing a very substantial amount of money at an issue, apparently to assuage consciences, but it won’t do one lick to change anything.

The solution to all of this, whether it's the Trans-Atlantic slave trade, or the Trail of Tears and stealing land from Indians, or any other injustice, is forgiveness. Money won't heal past hurts.

Nigel, you're right, money won't buy true love, buy salvation, or heal past hurts, I've heard it does make living in misery a little easier.

Bill, it certainly does. When I was a child, I had drug addicted parents who weren't around for days sometimes and little or no food in the cupboards. I understand poverty.

But I wonder, is the solution government handouts? And remember, these are reparations we are talking about; if the U.S. government decides to go ahead with this, I think they probably will give money to anyone whose ancestor was a slave, regardless of their current economic status.

Nigel said: "if the U.S. government decides to go ahead with this, I think they probably will give money to anyone whose ancestor was a slave, regardless of their current economic status."

Nigel, if they begin to start doing this, in my opinion, it will open up a can of worms, that may never be able to be closed.

The answer from the opposing side on the reparations issue would say you all are voicing the common perspective of someone who is a member of the white race whose history in this country is entirely different from that of the black race. You never came here illegally kidnapped and chained on ships and then forced to do labor to make others rich. You have never been looked on as a genetically inferior type of people. When you were in your white only high schools taking history who ever taught you that George Washington and Thomas Jefferson and many of your famous founding fathers owned slaves? Why was no mention ever made of the racial crimes committed by your hero Columbus and his folks? Blacks fought in the Revolutionary War to help found this country. They fought in the Civil War to help preserve the union. They fought in the world wars on the side of America. Why 100 years after the civil war were blacks still being lynched on many occasions for simply being black and also being denied equality in the work place? Why did blacks have to march in the back of parades behind the horses after WWII when the veterans were being celebrated in these parades? To say your thoughts and prayers have always been with us and to admit a wrong was done is not enough. Reparations are in order. Again, need we remind you that your experience as white people in this country is entirely different than those of us who have lived on the other side.

I don't ascribe to all of the above but this is and will be the argument from the reparations side. How do we answer this in a straight gospel manner? History shows that at many times professing Christians were responsible for the mess. These comments are sharp I realize but I have studied this issue and been part of efforts to heal the breach between these two races. Conservative black ministers who live and preach by the scriptures (I found that there are multitudes) speak in more balanced and biblical ways on the issue can't get the time of the day from the media.

The response to the above is simple- it is not fair or right to judge the actions of yesterday by the standards(and usually ridiculously PC standards) of today.

Paul did not forbid slavery because in his day slavery was extremely common and many were perfectly content being slaves, just as many were perfectly happy "in service” in England to wealthy families.

Now I understand the particular evils of plantation slavery in the US in the 18th and 19th century but that was 200 years ago and black persons were viewed far differently then, out of ignorance.

I certainly don’t think Washington and Jefferson were evil men for owning slaves- that’s just the way things were then and there was not a second thought about it- until the abolitionists started getting their message across.

This is the message people need for racial reconciliation:

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28

I just read where......Elizabeth Warren Comes Out In Support of ‘Gay Reparations’ if this is really true, with my "can of worms” statement in an earlier post, I might have been prophesying. :-)

Yes, I saw that as well. Yesterday it was descendants of enslaved people, today its gays and lesbians. What will it be tomorrow? Honestly I believe this whole discussion will go away after the election, no matter which party wins. This falls into the same category as paying off everyone's student loans, and free everything. It is the purchasing of votes.

But the spirit behind a group of people thinking they are owed money for sins committed against their ancestors from 7 to 11 generations ago is evil, in my estimation. "You have something I want, and I am going to take it from you." I think that reparations is pure socialism. It certainly rejects the Gospel, the good news. Forgiveness.

The Voting Rights Act insuring all citizens the right to vote regardless of race was not passed until 1965. This was not 7 to 11 generations ago. At this time, high schools and colleges were still segregated to a large degree and members of the black community were still being denied fair opportunity in the work place and unions. Plus incidents like the horrific and unjust murder of Emmit Till and the Birmingham church bombing (Sept 15, 1963) that killed four young black girls in Sunday school was still fresh on everyone's mind. The voting rights activists James Chaney, Andrew Goodman and Michael Schwerner were abducted and murdered in 1964 for working toward black minority representation at the voting booth. Even after the Voting Rights Act was passed in 1965 attempts were still made to exclude blacks from voting and social and employment discrimination still continued. We all know Dr. King's fate. The Constitution we brag about stated a black person could only be counted as 2/3 of a person. The Dred Scott Decision (1857)handed down by the Supreme Court said a black person could only be counted as "property" and had no rights. I'm not picking at anyone just trying to remind us of how the other in favor of reparations sees the issue.Their experience in this county has been entirely different than those opposing reparations.

Is there any group of people that at some time or another in the past did not enslave another?

I find it inconsistent that American Blacks are calling for reparations when the slave trade was aided and abetted by local blacks in their own community in Africa. With out their assistance I am not so sure it would have become such a big business that it did.

Scripture-wise I see nothing there that succeeding generations are obligated to pay for the sins - if owning slaves is a sin, e.g. - of those in the past.

Sandra

David, I'm not personally condoning or condemning reparations, what I am saying is, you have to be awful careful this day and age as I said, opening up a can of worms. Perfect example, Elizabeth Warren Comes Out In Support of ‘Gay Reparations? where does it stop? I personally believe it will never stop, every lawyer in this country will make sure of that. So just remember, once the can is opened up, people agreeing on reparations will be responsible in a way for all reparations afterwards. The atmosphere in America is perfect right now for this to happen, I can see it now, our children wanting reparations because their parents made them go to church, and believe in a God they never have believed in, where will it stop?

Wow!

Reading the comments in this thread, I can see how "upstanding church folks" in the past could have thought slavery was okay.

Deep.

Elizabeth Warren Comes Out In Support of "Gay Reparations" Should we "upstanding church folks" think this is ok? Gay's are people to, that have felt like they have been slaves in the eyes of the American church. As I have said, where does it stop? It will never stop!

I didn't feel you were condemning or supporting reparations. You were just voicing your opinion on this touchy walking on eggshells subject.

Being familiar with the issue and having been involved in past efforts to heal the riff between black and white I'm only trying to remind us how some of the other side in favor of reparations sees things. It's kind of like the Jewish people being told they just need to get over the holocaust. Sorrow can best be expressed by acts of contrition public and private.

Yet even the liberal black ministers and politicians may not speak for all black people as much as they may feel they do. Not all black ministers may support the idea of reparations. It's just that most media outlets are liberal and biased and when that is basically all you see you come to believe that is the way things really are. There are multitudes of orthodox black ministers who have evangelized and built and worked in the inner cities of America for decades but you hardly ever see any of them on the media. Thousands of black minsters do not support abortion or gay rights and the like. I've been around some of them and heard them talk and preach.

I know in Daniel's prayer for his people in Daniel chapter nine he confessed his own sins and the sins of his people and the sins of their forefathers ("we and our fathers have sinned"). Maybe the church needs a more readily acknowledgment and confession of the sins of our fathers regarding slavery. I'm not trying to lay a heavy trip on anyone or condemn. Yet when repentance is deep and sincere it can be the key to a lot of spiritual healing and victory.

I understand where you're coming from, why now? why not bring this up years ago? I know why, the atmosphere is perfect for it. Maybe the real Reparations should go to Jesus, he was beaten, spit on, whipped and nailed to a cross and crucified for all of us, maybe those people hollering Reparations, should pass their gift on to the only person that really deserves Reparations.

/"maybe those people hollering reparations"...../

Again, they would say this is a perfect example of the white man's view that remains largely insensitive to what the black race has experienced in this country which as been entirely different than the other race. They never had their grandfather or ancestors lynched in a public park while a crowd gathered to jeer the victim (mostly innocent victims) as they were beat and spit upon before the rope. They never had their mothers and fathers denied equal access in the workplace because of race as late as the 1960s and 70s and likely beyond. They wonder if we preach the humility of Christ and godly contrition then where is it?

Reparations have already been made through the affirmative action programs that have put the Afro-American to the head of all lists when completing for education, jobs and advancement over the past 50 years.

A word particularly for the black community (adapted from a letter written to a sister)

Our identity in God is an enormously significant subject. I understand (in measure) the terrible depletion of the Black Man in America and the great need for a self-esteem, dignity and identity in the very area in which he has been robbed. But to predicate that identity on some supposed virtue inherent in race is unhappily reminiscent of that theme exploited by the Black Muslims and even by Farrakhan today. The issue is not whether history verifies it so much as to whether it should be employed.

God’s answer is founded on altogether other lines. We are to find our identity, not on the basis of any natural factor, but rather on a spiritual one, that is to say, "in Christ”! To be a servant and a son are for me ultimate calling. This is the very identity of Christ Himself in His earthly tenure. Ought it not be ours? Is not this the appeal of the great Apostle himself in Philippians 2:5-12? Though he was himself a "Hebrew of the Hebrews,” did he not cast aside his every earthly distinction as dung in order to win Christ?

Ironically, the greatest Christ-like figure in all American literature is the black slave of Uncle Tom’s Cabin. How transcendent his uncomplaining suffering; not once taking issue with the lowliness of his servanthood, but rather glorifying God in it. I do not know of a figure more compelling, more heroic, yet how derogatory today to be called an ‘Uncle Tom’! It would be commendable if the whole Church in America would take to itself this image. But who will model this for us? Where are the actual examples of this servanthood demonstrated before us by black men and women? Where are those who would voluntarily forsake upward mobility in the ‘white man’s world’ in order to demonstrate the timelessness of God’s own character in meekness. What a call! Who would have the courage to embrace it?

This is not to negate ‘blackness,’ but perhaps to identify, in part, the very wisdom of God in bestowing it! It is no accident that the servant who succeeds in saving the prophet Jeremiah out of the death of the miry pit is a black eunuch! Though the king ordered Jeremiah’s execution, this man recognized the value of the prophet, and risked his own life to propose saving him! His fashioning of a harness of ropes made by rags completes the picture of ‘lowliness’ incorporate not only in a servant, but a black servant, not only a servant but a eunuch robbed of his own sexuality!

Can it be that God reserves for the socially ‘lowest,’ and even despised, the greatest honor of a last days’ heroic salvation of the remnant of Israel by that servant people who cannot allow our ‘dungeon-death’ even at the risk of their own life? Great and unimaginable honor and distinction will be theirs eternally in the Kingdom.

No doubt such a line of consideration to drifting, aimless black youth would seem a vapor. ”How impractical can you get?” Aggressive self-assertion, not servanthood, is the theme of the hour. Millions of dollars in product endorsement and salaries await the successful black athlete or rap star. A crown of thorns has no honor or riches. Who dares propose such an alternative? Who has in measure himself appropriated it?

How many of you in this thread have had conversations with Christian African Americans in real life ”“ face to face about Christ, life, and other subjects including reparations?

Have you sat across from a Christian African American (or non Christian African American) in real life and said the things you have said in this thread?

Where have you gotten your information regarding reparations from?

*I will take your silence to mean that you are not and probably have never been in real relationship with Christian African Americans in real life ”“ face to face. I will take it that the information you have, you gathered from Conservative talk radio including web sites, TV, News, and Blogs. I'm guessing the same can be said for Right Wing and white supremacist sites as well. There is also the possibility of "shadowing” African American web sites and Blogs. Please correct me if I'm wrong about where you've gotten your information from.

Rp

Jasmine....Have you sat across from a Christian African American (or non Christian African American) in real life and said the things you have said in this thread?

@MrBillPro

Thank you for your response. Can you share with me where you've gotten your information regarding reparations?

Jasmine..I have got my information/opinions "mostly" from family members, on both sides of my family, my side and my sister in laws side, and they all agree with this post I posted earlier in this thread.

Bill Said: "I'm not personally condoning or condemning reparations, what I am saying is, you have to be awful careful this day and age as I said, opening up a can of worms. Perfect example, Elizabeth Warren Comes Out In Support of ‘Gay Reparations? where does it stop? I personally believe it will never stop, every lawyer in this country will make sure of that. So just remember, once the can is opened up, people agreeing on reparations will be responsible in a way for all reparations afterwards. The atmosphere in America is perfect right now for this to happen, I can see it now, our children wanting reparations because their parents made them go to church, and believe in a God they never have believed in, where will it stop?"

Jasmine, do you not believe reparations for some, will not open up lawsuits for anyone, that might feel like their owed something, because of their past? Personally, I believe this will have a snowball effect, that may never end.

@MrBillPro

Reparations for/against African Americans amongst African Americans has been going on for decades. For the younger generation it might be something new but for those of us over 50 it's not. It is interesting though reading up on various ethnic groups like the Jews and their ongoing reparations as well as Native Americans and Japanese Americans in getting a fuller understanding of what it meant to each group. When I read Elizabeth Warren's so called "reparations for gays”, it wasn't that at all. Instead it had do with a tax code, tax refund, and gay marriage. Calling it "reparations” was a way to "trigger” some people and it did just that. The only group that I could see trying to make a real bid for reparations would be white women because they're already considered a minority. They are also the biggest recipients of Affirmative Action.

I read this morning that Reparations could carry a 17 trillion dollar price tag, yes, 17 trillion, that could probably pay for health care for the whole country for many years.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_21st-century_Islamism?wprov=sfla1
Where is the lefts concern for slavery that is happening today under Islam
It is like silent crickets such as the slavery that is going in Libya
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Libya?wprov=sfla1

I always never understood the verse in the Bible Revelation 19 as it mentions slavery

Revelation 18
1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. note

4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, note

13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men. note

14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,

16 And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;

23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

We know there will be slavery right into the end of the age