Sound doctrine is it promoted in your churches ?

1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; View more

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; View more

Tit 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. note View more

Tit 2:1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine

How many churches actually promote sound doctrine or is it for itching ears

Todd prove it to me as many have doctrinal statements that does not mean they are preaching sound doctrine ?
If you noticed it I actually provided evidence from things like podcasts, what are the most popular christian bestsellers , can you actually provide any evidence as I could even provide evidence from say YouTube aswell

Beth Moore and Ed young jr are southern Baptist and they do not preach sound doctrine

Do you know even what sound doctrine actually is ?

The reason is it is one of the specifications for a pastor, I am not dealing with vague statements here but actual evidence from Christian literature , podcasts and other things to prove that most pastors do not preach sound doctrine ?

There are many thousands of churches that promote sound doctrine as you would define it- for example those in the Southern Baptist Convention (to which the church I attend belongs).

But they are dead or close to dead spiritually- there is little power, little anointing, little preaching with true unction, and very "safe” worship.

Note I did not say there is not sound Biblical teaching- there certainly is. But there is little or no anointing/unction. And there is a mountain of a difference.

Which begs the question- if my observation is true, how correct is it’s doctrine?

Amos8:11-12,
"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

12 "And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.”

My question is this :
What is going to have to happen to cause people to get sooo desperate for
the ** TRUE Word of God ??

Here is an autio that I have just listened at concerning this....
I have heard the Baptist report, that the young, as well as others are leaving the church,.. just stopping. And this man mentions the young
in this.

What is the problem,... are they giving the people a doctored doctrine ??

"GRAIN FOR THE FAMINE”
By Gbile Akanni

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RoqehE8WL_HKWIgLPYyLpDjbElsyG39G/view

~~~~~~~~~~~~
elizabeth

May I speak boldly,..and plainly...?

There are denominations made up out of a one verses of Scripture,... the whole denomination is built upon that (and I can think of more than one)
Whenever or wherever we see that, our spiritual senses should be alerted.
We should BEWARE.

Because when we are receiving the real and true,.. The whole Word of God will flow together,.. into One.

I say ‘when we are receiving’ ,.. because we are disciples(learners)
always being farther taught,... always putting His yoke upon us and being taught by Him,.. The Spirit of God,.. and not man or tradition.
...receiving the plumb line, so we will know who to follow and who not to follow. ( Jesus said to follow me)
Paul says,....”considering their conversation”

Does that truly make sense ?

~~~~~~~~
elizabeth

I wholeheartedly agree Todd. Where are the churches that when you walk in, you experience the awesome presence of God in worship? When the preacher preaches, it seems as though he is talking to you, and you are convicted of your sins? Where are the churches where you talk to the average member and they are head-over-heels in love with Jesus?

Their doctrinal statements and preaching often line up neatly with scripture but there is a noticeable dearth of spiritual power.

And to try to answer your question, I don't think the doctrine IS correct, because if it was they would get the results scripture promises.

"And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God." 1 Corinthians 2:4,5

Chris rosebrough on pirate Christian radio reviews thousands of different sermons from all different churches

The thing is have you got any evidence to back up your claim that thousands of different churches are preaching doctrine without the holy spirit because I could prove to you by the
The bible commands us to preach sound doctrine
I can go through hundread of Christian books such as bestsellers and actually prove the contrary to your statement
Popular christian podcasts
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/genre/podcasts/christianity/id1439he

Eden bestsellers

https://www.eden.co.uk/bestsellers/
southern Baptist convention does not , not unless you count Beth Moore's recent remarks

The southern Baptist convention doctrinally is a mess

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears

I would state that most churches are more seeker sensitive where do you get churches actually going verse by verse through scripture or actually going through different doctrines such as the doctrine of sin or the doctrine of God

Dom I have attended many churches with excellent Bible preaching- excellent in that they properly exegete the text etc. I attended a church before We moved where the Pastor took over a year to preach through the gospel of John. He was an excellent Bible teacher.

But I maintain there was little power, few salvations, few backsliders returning and few new people coming in.

I guarantee the doctrine of that church was spot on.

But why such limited results?

All I can say is that almost every church I have been in is as lifeless as a corpse spiritually, and almost every person I meet who calls themselves "christian" can't tell me the basics of christian doctrine, or if they can, they have not had any inward, personal experience of it.

"My message and my preaching were not with persuasive words of wisdom, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, so that your faith would not rest on men’s wisdom, but on God’s power.…" (1 Corinthians 2:4,5).

I am all for sound doctrine, for there is so much being taught today from the pulpits that is blatant error. I agree with Todd and Elizabeth. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation, but are we witnessing this power in most churches today? There are few churches today that are teaching all of the council of God.

You can study almost any true revival where there was a move of the Holy Spirit, and many of the churches that clamor for sound doctrine rejected the move of God because it didn't fit in to the doctrine of their particular denomination.

"Because of your traditions you have destroyed the authority of God's word. And you do many other things like that." (Mark 7:13).

There are also many Pentecostal and Charismatic denominations that seek for signs and wonders, and there is no depth of the Word of God being taught, and so there is very little spiritual growth taking place in these churches.

"Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and encourage with every form of patient instruction. For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires." (2 Timothy 4:2,3).

We do need sound doctrine. We need both the Word (the whole Word), and we need the Spirit.

"Who also has made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter kills, but the spirit gives life." (2 Corinthians 3:6).

The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life. (John 6:63).

deleted duplicate

One of the greatest and most subtile deceptions is sound doctrine taught by the ingenuity of man that is not Spirit breathed, where the preacher parades his knowlegde and excels in rethoric.

Dead orthodoxy that is not wrought in the prayer closet, where there are no tears shed, no fragrance of bridal communion, no dew of Hermon that falls in the early morning hours. It brings no conviction to the hard hearted. It puffs up those that are headstrong.

Professors of religion and who teach what they think but they have not heard from the father.

John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

As it was the letter of law of Moses that killed, so it is New Testament doctrine taught as a system and a theory.

One of the greatest and most subtile deceptions is sound doctrine taught by the ingenuity of man that is not Spirit breathed, where the preacher parades his knowlegde and excels in rethoric.

Dead orthodoxy that is not wrought in the prayer closet, where there are no tears shed, no fragrance of bridal communion, no dew of Hermon that falls in the early morning hours. It brings no conviction to the hard hearted. It puffs up those that are headstrong.

Professors of religion and who teach what they think but they have not heard from the father.

John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

As it was the letter of law of Moses that killed, so it is New Testament doctrine taught as a system and a theory.

I certainly agree NP.

Mike wrote:
"We do need sound doctrine. We need both the Word (the whole Word), and we need the Spirit.”

I certainly agree and you are spot on about the charismatics.

It always seems like it has to be one or the other. Why must that be?

The only place I have experienced authentic Christianity was with a group of brothers I used to pray with- the power in the room was electric because God was there but there was no silliness or weird manifestations. It was dead serious because God was there. And I experienced it one other time at a retreat for youth workers and the leader was playing clips from the old Fire on the Altar website. The entire agenda for the meeting was out the window because God stepped down. The whole room felt like an extremely heavy drapery was weighing us down and all we could do was weep and cry out to God.

There is nothing, and I mean nothing, that I desire more than to experience God’s presence like that again.

The word of God is spiritual. According to 1 Cor. 2, the natural man, meaning the human intellect and intelligence, cannot receive the things of the Spirit for they are foolishness to him, for they are spiritually discerned or understood. So, apart from the operation of the Holy Spirit, proper understanding of the word of God is not possible. In other words, sound doctrine is not possible apart from the Holy Spirit as He brings revelation of the written word to our hearts.

Sound doctrine is understanding and teaching that brings transformation to our lives, that shapes us into His image.

I know of places where the doctrine is "sound" meaning that it seems from the outside to line up precept upon precept with the word of God. However the people in those places are filled with pride, bitterness, and have totally missed becoming like Christ. What they know might be sound in that it is not full of any kind of gross error. But what they believe is a best woefully incomplete because it is not conforming them to His image. They would argue that their doctrine is sound, but there is no fruit born out in their lives to back that statement up.

So I don't believe it is all about your particular interpretation of Chapter so and so verse such and such. It is about knowing a living God who by His Spirit and His Word is radically transforming your life so that you find yourself being transfigured from glory to glory into His image as by the Spirit of the Lord..

1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1Jo 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

The reason is the Christian church does not suffer with a problem of a lack of good Christian doctrine

https://christianbookexpo.com/bestseller/all.php?id=0719
Christian books bestsellers

Christian megachurches
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_megachurches_in_the_United_States

I think the Holy Spirit is one of the most misused members of the trinity and having a correct understanding of the third person of the trinity

Everyone has a knowledge of god but whether that view is correct or even biblical that is the problem

Having a correct view of Jesus is important as anything else is idolatry that is why you need christology
Having a correct view of god is important that is why you need theology
And a correct view of the Holy Spirit

To me it seems you are more people who have itching ears as that’s what it states in the passage about people who go against sound doctrine

Jhn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Jhn 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Jhn 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Jhn 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
Jhn 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
Jhn 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Jhn 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

You are rather vague when you say some churches preach sound doctrine but are dead if they did they should not be

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2Ti 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
2Ti 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.

The opposite of those who do not preach doctrine is those that scratch itching ears and that is what is in abundance .
We have fables that run abound.

I know many ministers and don’t know many who would even pass the category of sound doctrine as it is a qualification of a pastor according to the bible

Tts 1:6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
Tts 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
Tts 1:8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
Tts 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
Tts 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:

This states that sound doctrine is a fundamental to a pastor

This is what I find fundamentally dangerous looking for experience over the word of God as you step into dangerous territory.
You end up like a drug addict in so many highs and lows if you seek experience over the word of god.

I went to university and anybody can do theology

I think it was Glenn beck that said that Mormonism saved him from alcoholism he was transformed but not under Christianity
There was an imam that said that the Quran saved him from drugs
Cults do miracles.

* DOCTRINE,..
Would we think that this Word possibly could derive from the word *Doctor ?,....... How is it used in Scripture ?

We go to the Doctor in hopes to be made physically well ?
( that is, ...in the natural body)...

But NOW , Jesus’ with His *doctrine .. has come to make us *completely whole,..well,.. Spiritually.

What if a man is NOT preaching a *DOCTRINE, (like Jesus’ *DOCTRINE that makes one whole / well),that teaches us, ‘we are all sinners,and that we willl just keep on sinning,.. that Jesus a liar,... that He can’t make us perfect,.. (like He says),...”be ye perfect ,as I am perfect,..the One we are called to follow.

(Paul say he didn’t count himself as having yet apprehended it, but was going after *THE HIGH CALLING of God in Christ Jesus.)we are called unto a high calling.
We have been called into a Spiritual kingdom, where The King is Lord.

Do we just put new wine into old bottles?,.... the bottle won’t make it, .. it will just break, and be of no use at all.

Mt.9:12, Jesus said,..
"They that be *whole need not a physician, but *they that are sick.”

Mk.2:17,.. Jesus said,..
"They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

Mt.16:6,
"Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Jesus was discussing bread,... True bread and unleavened bread,..

Lk.12:2,
" Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is *hypocrisy.”

Leaven, ... something that makes bread *rise.

Note: they try to put leaven into the bread they are eating and trying to feed others,.. but their leaven is dead,.. so they try to make it rise w/ man-made
Ingredients.

*Jesus, is the *resurrection, [rise] of The Bread that He gives us.

Mt.16:11-12,
" How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?

12 "Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of *the DOCTRINE of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.”

Mk.12:38-40,
"¶ And he said unto them *in his DOCTRINE, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,

39 And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts:

40 Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.”

Acts 2:42,
"And they continued stedfastly in *the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in *breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Rom.8:16-18,
"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, *but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of *DOCTRINE which was delivered you.

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”

1Tim.6:3,
"¶ If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to *the DOCTRINE, which is according to godliness;”

1Tim.4:16,
" Take heed unto thyself, and unto *the DOCTRINE ; continue in them: for in doing this *thou shalt both *save thyself, and them that hear thee.”

Notice the contrast in the next two Scriptures,....

2Jn1:9-10,
"¶ Whosoever transgresseth, and *abideth not in the *The DOCTRINE of Christ, *hath NOT God. He that *abideth IN the *DOCTINE of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

10 If there come any unto you, and *bring NOT *this DOCTRINE, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:”
~~~~~~~~
Rev.2:14-15,
"But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold *the doctrine *of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

15 So hast thou also them that hold *the DOCTRINE of *the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.”
~~~~~~~~~~
So now,.. Is the preaching like Christ’ DOCTRINE,...a doctrine to make us whole,... ?,.. or just stay sick ?
~~~~~~~~~~~
He is our plumb line-
~~~~~~~~~~~
study,.. ‘What is the doctrine of :
* the doctrine of the Pharisees and the Sadusees
*the doctrine of Balaam
*the doctrine of the Nicolaitans
???
~~~~~~~~~~~
elizabeth

This was about sound doctrine and not doctrine this is off topic

If we are looking at definitions let’s look at the Greek and not cherry 🍒 pick verses
When we look at verses Elizabeth you never start with the English

G1322 διδαχή
Pronounced did-akh-ay'

from 1321; instruction (the act or the matter):--doctrine, hath been taught.
https://biblehub.com/greek/1322.htm

G1319 διδασκαλία
Pronounced did-as-kal-ee'-ah

from 1320; instruction (the function or the information):--doctrine, learning, teaching.
https://biblehub.com/greek/1319.htm

G2085 ἑτεροδιδασκαλέω
Pronounced het-er-od-id-as-kal-eh'-o
https://biblehub.com/str/greek/2085.htm
from 2087 and 1320; to instruct differently:--teach other doctrine(-wise).

G3056 λόγος
Pronounced log'-os

https://biblehub.com/str/greek/3056.htm

from 3004; something said (including the thought); by implication, a topic (subject of discourse), also reasoning (the mental faculty) or motive; by extension, a computation; specially, (with the article in John) the Divine Expression (i.e. Christ):--account, cause, communication, X concerning, doctrine, fame, X have to do, intent, matter, mouth, preaching, question, reason, + reckon, remove, say(-ing), shew, X speaker, speech, talk, thing, + none of these things move me, tidings, treatise, utterance, word, work.

Just to assert that there is bad doctrine does not make that there is the premise that there is good doctrine

At Pentecost it states that they continued firmly in the apostles doctrine

Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Act 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

Jesus himself is called the word of god λόγος as I am advocating for sound doctrine as this is the title of this thread

I cannot do justice to all the greek words here in there context as we live in a YouTube generation who have an attention span of 2 seconds

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

If we want to state that doctrine is bad we can quote 1 Timothy stating that in the latter times people will be given to doctrines of demons
The Greek is διδασκαλία which means teaching

Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope

The same word is used for learning in Romans 8

What do people have against scripture today as god gave us a book we should know that book 📚

What is so dangerous is that we put experience above the word of god we end up in Christian Gnosticsim
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism
which is esoteric knowledge and can be swayed by every wind of doctrine

Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

The other heresy we can full into is Montanism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montanism
relied on prophetic revelations from the Holy Spirit.

Montanism put prophetic revelations above scripture

True or False:

A church can espouse perfectly sound doctrine and still be dead as a door nail.

Explain your answer.

Dominic,
I did not write to offend,...that is not my heart.
I thought you were wanting to be able to recognize sound doctrine vs unsound doctrine,in the one that we hear preach or speaking,....yes?

~~~~~~~~

That was my emphasis,....the words that come out of one’s mouth,.. do they line up with Jesus’ teachings / doctrine?..... how He used them.

~~~~~~~~~
elizabeth

Yes but I didn't think you understood my points as I was more stating that it is to do with what we
I don't know how you came up with the word doctor from the word doctrine and leaven can be used for both good and evil in the new testament

Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened

Is a positive view of leaven all the other uses are negative

😃😃😃

When we view doctrine we have the apostles doctrine as the Bible was mostly written by the apostles or people who new the apostles
It is not only what Jesus said
Doctrine also covers of how we view man, god, sin and the holy spirit , creation

Doctrine covers all areas of life not simply just what we speak

The other thing I despise is when people put there own experience above god's word.

Psa 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name

There are so many wrong views of Jesus , God and other things. Which is idolatry.

Sound doctrine is much more than what simply Jesus taught it is what the Bible teaches .

Todd have you actually read what I have said do you put experience above the word of God ?
As that would place you in montanism
Provide proof of your claims rather than just making a statement.
If a church was teaching sound doctrine it wouldn't be dead.

Dom-

Half the time I have no idea what you are talking about. Where have I ever said that experience trumps the Word of God? I would never say such a ridiculous thing. I certainly don’t believe that.

My T or F question was not directed to you personally.

But you did indicate that if a church had sound doctrine it could not be dead.

And I would just have to disagree very strongly with that.

PS: doctrine and doctor both have the same root source.

I have never personally met a Baptist freemason but I’ll take your word for it that they are out there.

I have not defined the term sound . I have not defined the term.
Freemasonry would be against sound doctrine.
Please actually read my posts before replying to them I went to university in Canterbury. Anyone can do a theology degree a Muslim can do a theology degree , an atheist can do a theology degree and become a vicar in the church of England or Methodist church .

I was using the biblical definition of what sound doctrine is which means that it is contrary to itching ears

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

According to the bible sound doctrine is also a lifestyle

1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine

Titus also states that it is a specification for a minister so a pastor if he does not preach sound doctrine should not be in the pulpit

Tit 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

The thing is that when you are trying to state an argument please do not present a straw man argument or put words in my mouth that I have not said

I was also trying to state that experience in worship or how good a worship band is before a church service does not determine whether a preacher

The thing is to put Christian experience over the fact of god's word can become dangerous
How do you know something is god's presence and not anything else

This is what I find dangerous as an experience can be purely subjective

How can you state that there are thousands of churches that promote sound doctrine when I have simply only defined the term doctrine in the Greek

I would not say the southern Baptist convention holds to a form of sound doctrine have you seen the recent scandals.

I mean elevation church is part of the Baptist group , Stephen furtick is not exactly sound he does not preach sound doctrine

Regardless I think it is off the subject of Dom’s OP.

That being said, I am not 100% sure what the point of the OP is.

My point is that a church can have sound doctrine, with no Freemasons or Elks or Lions Clubbers or Rotary Clubbers or anything, and still be a dead church.

Many or most of the churches that seem to be most alive would NOT have sound doctrine as Dom intends that term.

I think the church Dom is looking for may not exist in reality.

Todd maybe you have not read the biblical passage as it is a specific requirement for pastors
It is not in the take it or leave it section

Titus

7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; note

9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. note

10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision

You can't just immediately dismiss a biblical passage just because you have some idea in your head of what sound doctrine is

Every pastor should teach sound doctrine that is part of what a pastor is

Maybe you are not up-to-date with the apostasy that is going on in the southern Baptist convention

Apostasty in the southern Baptist convention
https://youtu.be/qLMV_6YUWsk

I have given you evidence that there is apostasy in the southern Baptists

When you say there are thousands of churches that have sound doctrine just name one ?

Did the early church in Acts have sound doctrine?

Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Act 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

Exactly.

But we also know their doctrine was not perfect. Acts 15.

Maybe you haven’t realised this but the apostles doctrine is the bible , the New Testament
What are you saying about the bible ?

They didn’t have everything right. Some thought you had to be a Jew or become a Jew to be a Christian.

But the early Church functioned in power and changed the world.

No but sound doctrine is

Romans 16
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil. note

20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

John 7:17
16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears

I have been part of building home fellowship of varying sizes in the past 10 years. Based on my observation, the people who search churches based on Doctrines never really settle in one church. After the first few weeks of attending our fellowship, they will be all pumped up and come to us saying we are the most Biblical Church they have every seen. But after a month or so, they will come back pointing to a petty thing, saying we are wrong in that regard. No matter what explanation is given, they already made up their mind that we are now unbiblical and leave. Often the issue will not even be scriptural. It will be more with some kind of tradition. Some say that we glorify a certain preacher equal to Christ because we often quote him. Some say that there is certain practice in Acts which we do not follow.

We openly acknowledge that we do not pick and choose things from Acts. We only follow Epistles. If we follow Acts then we should all have common property but most of us are not interested in doing it! Why should we pick certain practice alone from acts and ignore rest of them? So we instead ignore the whole of acts. Our understanding is, Acts is a history book of acts of the Apostles. It is not a definite guide for us to follow. While Epistles are clear guide given to the Churches to follow.

On the contrary, the people who are a blessing to the fellowship, are those who come with a clear need in their heart. They come searching for Godly fellowship. They are not arrogant like others who think they are perfect and deserve a perfect Church with perfect doctrines! These gems understand that they are imperfect people and are in need of genuine brothers and sisters to fellowship with. Such people are blessed by the fellowship and also become a blessing. These are rare gems. I have seen very few like that and God is merciful to bring them in our midst.

Amen Sree.

In all these years I have never heard anyone say that about Acts of the Apostles, Sree. Interesting. As Gentile Christians a very important doctrinal foundation was laid for us in Acts 15:20 (repeated in verse 29).

In all these years, how did you not question yourself about certain practices in Acts that you do not follow? For example you might not have sold all your property and lived with other Christians, sharing everything. How did you not question why you choose not to follow this process?
I think the answer is, you just went with motion, you did what most Christians did and assumed you were right! I might be wrong in your case, but I am sure right with most other Christians who think they have the right doctrine!

Acts 15:20 tells Gentile converts to Christianity, not to eat food offered to idols and not to involve in sexual immorality. Paul wrote about food offered to idols in 1 Cor 8 and 1 Cor 5 is about sexual immorality. Hence these 2 are clearly mentioned in detailed in Epistles.

What I mentioned is, we do not follow a practice just because it is mentioned in acts like breaking bread every Sunday (Acts 2:46). Some Christians get offended because we do not break bread every sunday. They develop this from Acts and consider it very important. But there is not a single command in Epistles on how often we need to take communion.
Another thing is how in Acts they appointed Stephen for serving food. People take that and make a theology on how elders should be appointed. But in the same Acts they selected the Apostle by casting lot! Why not follow that?

Just because a practice was done in Acts, it does not mean it is correct. For example Paul circumcised Timothy in Acts. But none of us practice that today!

Acts is not a book to make theology from, it is to understand how the Holy Spirit worked in believers.

I think we are in agreement, Sree, but let me make sure: I believe you are saying that you do not attempt to build doctrines out of historical events mentioned in Acts of the Apostles. I merely mentioned an historic event in which doctrine was simultaneously put forth (in Acts 15:20) because it seemed to be an oversight on your part (I have my lapses, too, so no worries).

I apologize if I was not clear in my previous post. Some times our written words does not show our spirit. I have nothing against you.

Yes you are right, I do not develop doctrine out of the events depicted in Acts. I do not disagree with Acts 15:20 nor ignore it, there is nothing new in it that is not explained in Epistles. If there are things in Acts supported by Epistles then it is to be accepted. Also I have no problem accepting the teachings in Acts like the sermon to Ephesians. It is in line with book of EPhesians.

I used to be part of a housechurch
I agree with you aswell that didactic teaching should be primarily over historical such as the book of acts
It is hard but most churches do not preach the gospel let alone can do exegetical teaching through a book of the bible

deltadom...It is hard but most churches do not preach the gospel let alone can do exegetical teaching through a book of the bible

You must have been all over the world, and listen to many Pastors to come to that conclusion.
There are 37 million churches in the world with 34,000 (Christian) denominations.

Dominic,
This man, Gbile Akanni , from Nigeria was a Physic ‘s teacher in a University over there ,.. now full time for things pertaining to The Lord And His Ways.Someone, ...
I believe you would appreciate seeing / Hearing.
~~~~~~~~
On this video, that I came across, He is talking about things that you have been discussing here.I hope it can be helpful.

04,”THE MINISTER, an AROMA of HIS GLORY "
Gbile Akanni

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXNXCrLVcrs&feature=share

(Clergy Retreat)
~~~~~~~~~~
elizabeth

Another one,...
talking about the necessity for a minister, that God will be used by God,.. etc

03, "Personal Transformation , A Prerequisite "
Gbile Akanni

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jonY4KPABxw&feature=share

(Clergy Retreat)

~~~~~~~~~~~
elizabeth

The whole 34,000 denominations thing is a lie

If you saw my premise I was basing my evidence for this on what is popular. I used to work in the Christian bookshop and if you go by a few different factors such as what Christian books are selling, podcasts is another factor or things like what is the most popular Christian YouTube channels.

I based my premise on information such as this to come to my conclusion and that I used to read and review books for the Christian bookshop

Elizabeth the passage that he is using he is taking out of context

2Cr 2:14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.
2Cr 2:15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
2Cr 2:16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?
2Cr 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

Why choose the end of the passage

Sound teaching actually opens up the scriptures going verse by verse through so that the person has an understanding of the bible rather that of the ministers life.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

To me it takes time to go through bible commentary’s and study

What I find so crazy is that people constantly have to find new topics to excite an audience rather than go through verse by verse through a book and dealing with the issues and subjects that are dealt with in scripture

So every week they have to find more and more extravagant topics from the bible rather than using the power of the text of scripture

The thing is people can actually learn about the bible rather than learning about who is preaching it and the glory does not go to Jesus it goes to the minister

When I worked in the Christian bookshop I wondered why things like bible commentary’s where not selling

Biblical exegetical preaching is a lost art and it is not that I do not mind things like topical sermons

It seem every other minister has been through the book of Romans if they are preaching through a sermon series but to go through some of the harder books such as numbers or Deuteronomy.

Deuteronomy is quoted by Jesus more than any other book in the Old Testament.

It seems most minister are skin deep when regarding the word of god as it is so easy to access the texts in Greek and even there are things to do with the actual geography.

There are resources to deal with the archaeology regarding someone like King David.

It just so annoys me on my mobile phone I can use my sword and actually brung up a range of different bible commentaries at a click , then access the Greek in another click.

I think it was David Wilkerson who called most current books candy floss even when you go back to preachers like r a torrey, d l moody , a b Simpson and others who lived late 1900s
Then go further back read the Puritan paperback series.
The use of scripture is overwhelming

It is like we have a generation that is fed on McDonald’s fast food and been poisoned by food poisoning biblically yet they do not even realise that Michelin star places exist where the finest food is served

The most saddening thing is that under some of these preachers they may never here the gospel and may be going to hell

Dominic,
Our seeing is a complete different seeing.
And please, ..I, in NO way want to seemingly talk down to you,... I get the impression that you are highly educated person,...but because I feel of necessity,I must be honest and to the point.

You believe that you are to get your wisdom and understanding from commentaries ,..books,.. etc...things that man has put forth.
...which things,..some may be right,... I do not say that they are ALL wrong,... by NO means.
But we first need a true plumb line to measure by,... and that is what The Lord, through His Spirit gives us.

But The Lord taught me from the very beginning, when He, though His Grace started drawing me to Himself,... (the time when we become sooo hungry for His Word) ..He spoke to me,and told me , do NOT get any material,.. books etc. of any kind,..to ‘just get The Word’ and He would teach me. And that is what I held to.

So when He teaches me something, though His Spirit, I go to His Word to confirm what He is teaching.

We all know that He is The GREATEST teacher,.. there is none other like unto Him,..
..God gave His Word to His Son,... The great teacher, without measure.
He knows it all, ..the truth,... and the Spiritual dicernment of that Word.
__________
He said, "My Words, they are Spirit, and they are Life.”
So, if they are Spirit,... and The Word, we know says they are,...then they must be Spiritually discerned.... and only The Spirit of God can reveal this to us, through The Spirit of God, which He has given us.
....The anointing teaches us...

So wouldn’t it be like as unto Mary, who learned at Jesus’ feet ,.. and no man can take that teaching away from her,.. it is solid... so is it when
Jesus‘ teaches us....no matter how educated we might be.

* It surely is not for us, to boast,.. if He is The One Who teaches us,.. we have these treasures in these clay vessels,.. it belongs to Him ,.. it is only passed through us,... but worthy of thankfulness.

The Word says in two places, "There is ‘a way’ that seemth right unto a man, but ‘the ways’ thereof are ‘the ways’ of death.”...and not Life,..
But Jesus truly teaches us "the Ways of Life”

Even one word, Dominic, .. w/ man’s definition , and not how it is used in The Bible, can lead to many other wrong turns.

Considering the Words,.for instance,....
* The Doctrine .....
* The Gospel ....

I write this w/great care and hesitancy Dominic,.. but I am compelled.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
elizabeth

I have been meaning to reply for the last few days
When you truly hear the bible properly preaches you do not want to go back
Lovingly in christ
Dom

Dear bro,
Thank you for replying,...I appreciate that.

Re:
You said, "
"When you truly hear the bible properly preaches ‘you do not want to go back’ " ( emphasis mine)
””””-
I am not sure just what you are saying here,.. sometimes I’m kinda slow to understand.
But I do want to encourage you to go w/ God, above all things.

Bless you in Him,.. who we know, loves us so very much,

””””””””””””
elizabeth