Good Fight Ministries on Kanye West

Good Fight Responds To Questions About Kanye West
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mZkHYtdcQI

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On today's episode we discuss the recent news about Kanye West and his recent conversion to Christianity. We take a look at his past and how he has influenced millions of his fans into darkness. Kanye West-Is Jesus Our ‘Homeboy’?

Reading the comments on that youtube, it is certain so many folks don't trust God to save anyone...that distrust boils down to themselves eventually.

such comments about him being false convert or a false teacher is just over the top.

As I see it... 'Hey Kanye, you better fly right and look and sound like the Christian I think I am".

With Christians willing to kill their young that quickly, the abortionist has nothing over them.

Joe at the end finally said "God can even save someone like that". I know he meant it well, but it smelled of that kind of thinking that "people like me get saved and people like him don't".

Fortunately these two guys at least had enough humility to recognize God can save someone that in their estimation cant be saved.

I edited to add one more thing.

Fortunately for us reading this, your life didn't get dissected on youtube when you were a young christen while you were still cussin and lustin and thinking like the world. You were behind the scenes doing it and yet God in his grace had mercy.

Brother Marvin,

You are absolutely right about Kayne West and the brothers that criticize him. Babes in Christ make plenty of mistakes. They even fall from time to time, but please brothers, don't be a hindrance to them by cutting them down, but pray for them, encourage them, and help to pick them up when they stumble.

Brother Marvin,
Your comment/assessment wins the internet today!
Couldn’t agree more and it pains me to think of how hard he’s gonna be pounced on but... when confronted by satan demanding Peter that he might sift him, Jesus prayed that Peters faith would withstand it- perhaps that would be the thing we should pray for Kanye and that the Lord would have mercy on those whom are throwing rocks😬

Guys, I know I'm opening myself up to criticism, but at what point do you think Kanye is moving from giving a testimony or sharing his faith to speaking as or being held out as a teacher and instructor of others in the faith?

Some would question or tear apart his testimony or his conversion. Some would encourage him in his profession and hope and pray for the words to be reality. His conversion is between him and the Lord and we should pray for its sincerity and growth.

My question has more to do with what appears to be a rapid escalation of his public speaking, singing and serving as a guide to others as to what real Christianity is about. That I think is a very legitimate question and concern for him and others.

I think we can encourage and pray for him personally and yet wisely caution him about taking up a mantle of teaching for the Lord prematurely.

No matter how wide you open yourself up to criticism, you won’t get it from me... every rock I throw boomerangs back a hits me in the face 😳

I keep hearing people say he’s teaching and while I can’t say he isn’t, from what I’ve read and seen he definitely is not.... in fact he has other more mature brothers (pastors) do the teaching. It was reported that this past weekend in Louisiana over a 1000 came to faith in Christ at a service he had set up but that there was very little Kanye and a whole lotta Jesus 🙏🏻

So as far as I have seen he is mostly giving his testimony and witnessing about what the Lord has done for him. If he is teaching then I’m not exactly sure what he would teach it’s not like he’s been thru cemetery school...

What do you think about writing Christian songs? I’m no making a statement with my question. I am thinking about this verse in my own consideration:

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God. - Colossians 3:16

Do you think writing songs to be sung to believers and unbelievers is a form of teaching ? Perhaps even a very impactful and powerful (for good or bad) form.

Hmmm 🤔
Well if that’s the measure then isn’t everything a born again believer does technically teaching? What I’m saying is he doesn’t seem to be setting himself to the teacher- at least not by the biblical standard.

Don’t get me wrong, I get your point... it’s just that what does or doesn’t qualify someone to teach... a seminary degree, a decade in service to the church, three years of being trained by the spirit ?
Brother aren’t you teaching with your posts here on a public forum where potentially millions of people could read and be influenced (for better or worse) by your words? So why are you qualified to teach and another younger brother not?

Just for the sake of thoroughness... let’s say your assumptions are correct and these actions are not profitable for the Lord (tho all things are) and this young brother has, in his zeal, lacked the discipline otherwise necessary to carry out the function of a mature ministry... what exactly are you suggesting the body of Christ do about it?

Hi Fletcher. I think you are asking all the right questions. These are questions I have as well which is why I posted my comment and question. The answers are important and usually people don’t even bother with the questions in a culture where eberybody’s "opinions” and thoughts on deep subjects ( or at least their right to freely express them ) is held in highest regard.

Everyone is called to be discipled and to be a discipler so there is always teaching going on. Clearly though, the Bible has a category of called teachers that is probably broader than an ordained pastor.. Also teachers are held to stricter standards than others who just disciple.

I honestly don’t know the answer. I have been teaching and discipling church leaders and pastors for a long time in many contexts. Never went to seminary and not a pastor but I’m clear on the calling and I’m confident in the fruit God has produced in spite of my many weaknesses.

The Kanye West strory caused me to consider and ponder the role of spiritual song writers in the church and to wonder about responsibilities and appropriate maturity and calling because I discern that there is definitely a strong teaching component to that ministry to the body.

I thought the radio show posted in the OP gave a good, balanced report on this issue.

I thought this other video by a pastor also made good points, albeit it's a more "stern" take on it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEfgyw3xrqQ&t=1872s

The pastor in that video points out that he’s been following Kanye West’s career for a long time and that he’s not convinced that this is a true conversion based on the present facts. He says that to him, if it were a true conversion, we’d be hearing him speak out against all the satanic things he promoted for all those years.

When I first heard about and looked into Kanye West’s recent profession of faith, it seemed encouraging to me. However, after learning and considering other information I have serious reservations.

For example, I saw a recent interview with him where he drops f-bombs and doesn’t seem regretful about it. I know that my foul mouth didn’t get completely cleaned up over night when I became a Christian. But I also know that when I did blurt out a cuss word I was convicted immediately and repented, and after a few months my mouth was cleaned up. He claims to have been truly converted in April, about 6 months ago, and I think by now he should be convicted about that and there should be signs of him seeking to change that habit. This is the interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t568Nd7k_Yk

In an interview from just a day ago he said that he doesn’t like the fact that Forbes didn’t recognize him as a billionaire but only as a millionaire. He also seemed to be "slightly” joking around as he said he might legally change his name to "Christian Genius Billionaire Kanye West.” All throughout that interview he boasted about his many "genius” accomplishments and there is not an ounce of humility as far as I could tell. This is the interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihfG8qlhW04

Kanye West has been claiming to be a Christian for the longest time, even while publicly worshiping Satan in his rap songs and concerts. And for years he has had this plan of starting his own church services and his own "Christian movement.”

And he seems to be serious about trying to run for president in 2024. In that recent interview he said he’s not going to need to "run” for president but only to "walk” for it.

Could it be that he’s hoping to get Christian votes behind him, just like Trump did? I know it's crazy to even think of him trying to run for president, but hey, that's what I thought when I first heard of Trump running. I was like, "no way, it can't be." I’m not saying for sure that that’s Kanye West's motive but it does make me wonder.

In the past there have been celebrities who have made professions of faith in Christ only to go on to renounce those professions of faith, whether in word or in deed. There have also been some true conversions within Hollywood though.

Yes obviously not one among us gets a "rubber stamp” with which to carry on as they please without being brought to account,... but to whom do they give account? Is it to random (and rather opinionated) strangers from around the world whom they have never even met,... or is it to the same anointing that instructs us? 🤔

See it’s very, and seriously so, important that we don’t become as the elder brother and treat our (prodigal) younger brother spitefully when he returns home... we should be rejoicing and celebrating with not only our brother but with our whole house and all the hosts of heaven!! 😇 Are we sooo holy and set apart that we can lay charge at the feet of Gods servants!??

See we should not only not have all these questions but should in fact have answers for when the unbelieving inquire as to his conversion... using it to show our Fathers mercy and grace:))) yet we throw our hat in with the unbelievers whom question.... :(

So (for me) it all comes down to this...
Why did Jesus do/say what He did?
Because His Father told Him to! -Full stop-

See allot of people read the book and took the test and learned christianese but only those who actually KNOW HIM,... who actually had a personal revelation of who He is, have any part in what is His. For He says so Himself.
If you "know” somebody, you can not only tell if someone else has met or knows them,... you can tell how well they know them and... how long it’s been since they had been with them.

For the record; after I was converted and baptized (in prison) I went straight back to a life of crime... actually committing the largest one I had to date and you know what, the Lord covered me because I was His. Though because I was His, the success of this sin no longer held any pleasure for me and without even realizing it, I gave it up in large part because the desire of my heart had changed. Though for another decade I continued to sin rather consistently and with a certain entitlement till one day (after Jesus just kept giving me more of Himself) I realized I liked being with Jesus more than I liked smoking weed and getting high... so I thought I’ll just hang out with Jesus instead of going to get stoned but I quickly found out I HAD to go get stoned... I was a slave (addicted) to it and didn’t even know it. Now mind you I had been promoting Jesus and all He had done for me publicly and yet I was in bondage to sin. It was then and there that He told me He could "take that from me” if I wanted Him to.... and only because He had ALREADY deposited the faith in my account and had been training me to hear and trust and follow His voice, having His grace abound towards me, was I able to yield to Him and allow Him to set me free from the spirit of addiction 🙏🏻😇😇🙏🏻💯

So maybe we should, at the least, give God the benefit of the doubt that His arm is NOT shortened unto salvation and He is mighty to save!!!
I know it may be unbelievable that He could do this for Kanye but our God is the God of impossible things :))))

And maybe we should ALL prayerfully consider the song "God is” on the album Jesus is King... tell me if after you hear that if you still have any doubts that this man met the Lord of Lords ?

I know most of the old/older generation, still hang on to the old school morals, and thank God we do. A lot of this new generation is lost, really lost, and it's pretty obvious most are not going to listen to us old/older folks. If it takes someone like Kanye West to get their attention, "and I pray he does" please allow God some time to work through Kanye to help bring this lost generation to Christ.

We all should know very well, sometimes God takes a long time to bring the lost to Christ, it took him 45 years to work on me, to get me somewhat straightened out, and I'm still under construction. God is not like a microwave, he's not into fast food, he sometimes sends folks into our lives to feed us a little at a time. I don't know "anything" about Mr. West, but it doesn't matter what I know, what matters is what God knows.

"Anyone having been born of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him, and he is not able to continue sinning, because he has been born of God." 1 John 3:9

"We know that everyone having been born of God does not continue to sin, but the One having been begotten of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him." 1 John 5:18

"And those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away." Luke 8:13

"But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him." John 6:64

"Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, "The Lord knows those who are His,” and, "Let everyone who names the Name of the Lord depart from wickedness.”"
2 Timothy 2:19

"We know that everyone having been born of God does not continue to sin, but the One having been begotten of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him." 1 John 5:18

So I guess I haven't been born of God, because I probably commit some type of sin everyday. :-(

Due to the prevalence of the hyper-grace message in the past 100 years, many Christians have missed the biblical truth and reality of false conversions. Yet the Scriptures clearly warn about that reality. We are exhorted to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith (2 Cor. 13:5) and to make our calling and election sure (2 Pet. 1:10). Paul spoke of being "in perils among false brethren” (2 Cor. 11:26). The main theme of the epistle of 1 John is to provide certain evidences of true conversion whereby one can examine one's self to see if one has a justifiable reason to have assurance of one's salvation. The best sermon I’ve ever heard based on 1 John is this one by Paul Washer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky8dTyPpiAo

Many times when Christians seek to discern whether or not someone has been genuinely saved, the "Judge not lest you be judged” card is pulled, taking that verse (Matt. 7:1) out of context and misapplying it. It is not taken into account that shortly after that verse in that same chapter Jesus went on to warn and say the following:

"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them. 21 "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’”

I know from personal experience about the deception of a false conversion. Sometimes when we are confronted with the possibility that we may have had a false conversion experience in the past, our first reaction is to vehemently deny that possibility. I know that that was the case with me. And it’s understandable because who wants to admit straightaway that their religious experience was a total sham? Yet we must let the Scriptures instruct us on what a true conversion looks like. As 2 Corinthians 5:17 says, "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.”

Again, the scriptures aforementioned here as well as those referenced by savannah, as well as others such as 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 and Galatians 5:19-21 clearly teach that those who continue to practice sin will not go to heaven, regardless of their profession of faith.

We’re not talking about sinless perfection here. We’re talking about being truly broken over and ashamed of one’s past lifestyle as a God-hater.

In one of the interviews to which I shared the link, Kanye West was asked if he was ashamed of his former lifestyle, to which he replied that he had nothing to be ashamed of whatsoever. It reminded me of when Trump was asked if he believed he needed to ask God for forgiveness, and he said no because he thinks he’s been a good person.

Totally get where you’re coming from -
You wrote;
" Yet the Scriptures clearly warn about that reality. We are exhorted to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith (2 Cor. 13:5) and to make our calling and election sure (2 Pet. 1:10). Paul spoke of being "in perils among false brethren” (2 Cor. 11:26). The main theme of the epistle of 1 John is to provide certain evidences of true conversion whereby one can examine one's self ”

Notice in all cases we are admonished to examine OURSELVES .........
just sayin

And just for the record... the "radio show” host are Calvinist
So just to be clear, by the standard you and Savannah are putting forth by your interpretation of scripture, John Calvin himself would miss heaven by a country mile... 🤔

Brother, the Good Fight radio show host who founded that ministry is a Calvary Chapel pastor who is definitely not a Calvinist but that is neither here nor there. While I'm not a Calvinist I agree in some areas with their biblical interpretations. On the issue of true and false conversion and the need to exercise discernment and church discipline many Calvinists have gotten it right imo.

We are not only exhorted to examine ourselves but also to examine the fruit of those who profess to know God. We're given Matthew 18:15-20 and 1 Corinthians 5 as instructions on how to exercise church discipline, on how to determine when to excommunicate someone who professes faith in Christ. Notice particularly 1 Corinthians 5:9-13,

"I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner””not even to eat with such a person. 12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person.”

In 2 Tim. 2:3 Paul describes false teachers in the last days as those "having a form of godliness but denying its power," and admonishes, "And from such people turn away!"

In Titus 1 Paul gave the following admonition to Titus regarding certain false teachers of his day (which applies today regarding any who would set themselves up as teachers within the church yet lack certain fruit in keeping with repentance):

"They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work."(Tit. 1:16). In verse 13 Paul says, "Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith."

From what I can tell, Kanye West does not really have any real accountability to any godly men. This is desperately needed especially if and when one is a new convert. A godly and mature brother can exhort and rebuke when needed, and a true believer will appreciate that kind of biblical correction and guidance.

I know that a Calvinist pastor was trying to disciple him for some time but it seems Kanye sort of got away from that and went off and did his own thing afterward.

Anyway, in the end only God truly knows if Kanye is truly born again. Our place is to pray for him but at the same time to exercise discernment. And as Joe Schimmel said in the radio show, we must be careful not to quickly fall hook line and sinker for the deceptions of the enemy in these last days.

"So just to be clear, by the standard you and Savannah are putting forth by your interpretation of scripture..."

Just to be clear, please tell me and the forum the standard I'm putting forth by my interpretation of Scripture. Please do so from my one post on this thread, prior to this one, my second.

Thanks

Mr. Bill,

Very sorry to hear that you have come to such a conclusion after reading God's inspired Word.

But God...

Brother Oracio,

Again, I get where you’re coming from but,... when did Kanye "set himself up to be a teacher” ?
Everyone keeps sayin things like that but -
Seems like he’s just witnessing and again where do the scriptures EVER license us to throw rocks at other believers that we’ve never even met?
Please site those scriptures for me because in my ignorance I keep missing them.
I don’t know Kanye, and will probably never meet him this side of heaven,... but I will offer praise to God for what He has done!

I mean 38,000,000 people downloaded the album Jesus is King in the first 12 hrs it was available!
So even if this is some super elaborate scheme of the devil who intends it for evil.... even if that is the case here,... Our God will use EVEN THAT to the good to glorify His Son our Lord Jesus 🙏🏻😇

It honestly seems like you all don’t want him to be a Christian!
I mean this is really ridiculous to even be having this discussion!
Because IF ANY of you detractors were spending half as much time before the Lord in prayer on behalf of this young brother, his wife, and their children then you all wouldn’t have time to cynically offer your public unbelief-

Why do christians kill their young!??

For the record; after I was converted and baptized (in prison) I went straight back to a life of crime... actually committing the largest one I had to date and you know what, the Lord covered me because I was His. Though because I was His, the success of this sin no longer held any pleasure for me and without even realizing it, I gave it up in large part because the desire of my heart had changed. Though for another decade I continued to sin rather consistently and with a certain entitlement till one day (after Jesus just kept giving me more of Himself) I realized I liked being with Jesus more than I liked smoking weed and getting high... so I thought I’ll just hang out with Jesus instead of going to get stoned but I quickly found out I HAD to go get stoned... I was a slave (addicted) to it and didn’t even know it. Now mind you I had been promoting Jesus and all He had done for me publicly and yet I was in bondage to sin. It was then and there that He told me He could "take that from me” if I wanted Him to.... and only because He had ALREADY deposited the faith in my account and had been training me to hear and trust and follow His voice, having His grace abound towards me, was I able to yield to Him and allow Him to set me free from the spirit of addiction

Respectfully brother, based on what you described there it sounds like you had a false conversion experience. I just don’t see biblically how one can continue to get stoned and continue in a life of crime for years, even a decade, and be born again. To me that contradicts all the many scriptures on what a true conversion is and looks like. It’s like saying one can continue to steal, fornicate, rape and murder and be born again.

I’ve even seen active gang members who think they are born again while continuing in their gang activities. Yet as a former gang member myself who was saved in prison, when I was born again there was a radical and powerful work of God in my heart and life. However, as I mentioned earlier, some years before experiencing true conversion, I experienced a false conversion while in jail. Many experience what is known as a "jailhouse conversion” that only lasts while they’re in jail or may last a little bit after they get out.

When one is truly born again, those kinds of chains are broken by the power of the gospel and one is set free. Remember, Scripture speaks of those who have a form of godliness but deny the power of true Spirit-empowered godliness.

Many can talk a good one about being on fire for Jesus or having a right relationship with Jesus while remaining unrepentant and dead in trespasses and sins. I think this is a good example of that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FRSbjlTxsQ

Have I fallen into blatant sins after being born again? Yes, to my shame I looked at pornography and fell into fornication a few times before I got married. But by God’s grace I did not continue in those sins as I repented and continued on in sanctification.

A key difference is in the fact that a true believer may at times "struggle with” and "battle against” certain serious or blatant sins, such as fornication or looking at pornography, while a false convert will be comfortable in their sin and seek to justify it when confronted about it.

Just my thoughts brother. You can take it with a grain of salt of course.

You well know exactly what you were saying, and what you were putting forth as a standard by "cherry picking” the scriptures and using particular verses to do what amounts to a "digital drive-by shooting”-

If you can’t see that this is what you’re doing then perhaps you should sit this one out... if you are aware and are doing it anyway then I pray the Lord have mercy on you 🙏🏻

There are so many people in the past, that lived lives a lot worse than Kanye, that become Christians and did, and some still doing, many things for Christ. You see, God is changing millions of lives all around the world every day! God is doing a supernatural work by setting people free from bondage and bringing them into a joyful new life filled with blessing and purpose.

The Scriptures claim to be able to change a life forever, and we see examples of that all around the world every day! I never see people set free from addictions such as alcoholism or drug abuse as a result of deciding to drop Christianity and turn their lives over to atheism. How many people who are in bondage to self-destructive behaviors have been set free and changed forever because they turned away from God?

How many airplanes loaded with atheists flew to Haiti a couple years ago in order to help those who were devastated from the earthquakes? You don’t hear of that sort of thing, but you do hear about thousands upon thousands of Christians doing such a thing. Why? Because God has changed their lives ”“ forever!

It may well be the case, tho I would say that the conversion wasn’t false so much as incomplete... see we can come to faith in Christ and yet not be mature enough to stand on our own and without the support of a church or elder brothers to disciple us we tend to fall back into the "ruts” or well worn paths of our life before coming to faith in Christ.
When the Lord baptized my with His Holy Spirit then things changed quickly & radically, to such an extent that people literally couldn’t believe it.
Have I had similar experiences as you where I failed the grace of God? Yes and like you it was to my shame but that was many years after my initial conversion/baptism. (For me) my experience was more of a seed that was planted and found good ground but had no water... but when the water came 🙏🏻😇 then came the sprouts, the growth, the fruits and they continue to this day

Appreciate the input and feedback.

I think all folks need to worry about their own sin, because God isn't going to ask you about mine.

How could God’s amazing grace possibly save a wretch like Kanye West?

In many respects, before coming to Christ I was probably a worse sinner than Kanye West ever was. If God can save a wretch like me I don't doubt for a second that He can save Kanye. But lets keep it real here. Not everything that glitters is gold sometimes.

Brother Oracio,

Again, I get where you’re coming from but,... when did Kanye "set himself up to be a teacher” ?
Everyone keeps sayin things like that but -
Seems like he’s just witnessing and again where do the scriptures EVER license us to throw rocks at other believers that we’ve never even met?
Please site those scriptures for me because in my ignorance I keep missing them.
I don’t know Kanye, and will probably never meet him this side of heaven,... but I will offer praise to God for what He has done!

I mean 38,000,000 people downloaded the album Jesus is King in the first 12 hrs it was available!
So even if this is some super elaborate scheme of the devil who intends it for evil.... even if that is the case here,... Our God will use EVEN THAT to the good to glorify His Son our Lord Jesus 🙏🏻😇

It honestly seems like you all don’t want him to be a Christian!
I mean this is really ridiculous to even be having this discussion!
Because IF ANY of you detractors were spending half as much time before the Lord in prayer on behalf of this young brother, his wife, and their children then you all wouldn’t have time to cynically offer your public unbelief-

Why do christians kill their young!??

I had missed that post and just now saw and read it a few minutes ago and thought, "I gotta respond to that post lol.”

Towards Kanye setting himself up as a teacher, in some ways he is definitely teaching, whether it be in his new album which reeks of a prosperity gospel message, at his Sunday church services in which he’s said that Mormons and Catholics should get a pass from Evangelicals, or at interviews in which he’s mentioned telepathy and some weird psychology of color perception.

He’s too smart to try to start any kind of extensive Bible teaching or preaching because he knows he doesn’t know the Bible that well. That can be either a good thing or a cunning thing.

If you want to say that for us to exercise discernment and to test the spirits to see if they are from God is, "throwing rocks at other believers that we’ve never even met,” that’s on you brother.

Should we really just embrace and applaud any and all celebrities who say they’re a Christian, without testing their spirit according to the Word of God? The fact that we’ve never met certain famous individuals does not prohibit from sharing exhortations of caution with one another regarding embracing said individuals as brethren. If there is a false movement within Christianity and many are being duped by it, isn’t it right for others who are aware of it to provide warnings about it, regardless of whether or not one personally knows the one/s leading the movement?

"It honestly seems like you all don’t want him to be a Christian!”

Actually brother, I want him to be a true believer and not one of millions who’ve been deceived by a cheap grace message void of true repentance.

It seems many of us only want to hear all the positive things from the media and refuse to consider any negative things revealed in other reports. I think it’s wise for us to seek to consider the whole of a matter before jumping into certain conclusions. As they say, there are two sides to every story.

If he’s not truly saved there’s nothing we can do about it. Might as well let God worry about it if He is so inclined.

Ha! Seriously bro I totally get where you’re coming from on this and not only do I love you as a good and faithful brother in Christ, it honestly is (in part) comforting that you have an intent to be protective over the body of believers🙏🏻
But I’m wondering why he/they aren’t included in that desire to protect?
I mean I totally get not "jumpin on the hype train” but I honestly haven’t heard much support for him/them from you.... it’s like in the good fight radio show, they spent the bulk being skeptical and plugging themselves (sold soul rock n roll plugs) but they did have a brief, nay a very brief exhortation to pray for him (just in case). All while riding on the coat tales of Kanye’s fame !??? C’mon bro you know that’s a bit hypocritical-

It just seems so strange to me that instead of us (elder brothers) here on SÌ and elsewhere strategically praying and interceding (as we are clearly commanded in scripture) we are debating wether his conversion is legit ??
I mean honestly bro, how long we gonna give God to get Kanye straightened out?
I remember not that long ago the guy with the coolest name ever (OS) a good and faithful Christian brother (whom I’d never met) was going thru a difficult time and decided to step away for a while... I wasn’t sure what was going on (wether his conversion was real or fake) all I knew is my brother was hurting and so I asked the God that saves me, what He wanted me to do about it and He instructed me to pray and lift my brother up🙏🏻 I’m guessing brother Sandoval is glad I didn’t get on SI and start publicly questioning his salvation and critiquing his every misstep ... I wonder if God is disappointed in me that I didn’t do that??? 🤔

"It just seems so strange to me that instead of us (elder brothers) here on SÌ and elsewhere strategically praying and interceding (as we are clearly commanded in scripture) we are debating wether his conversion is legit ??"

So...I ask you...why don't you sit this one out?

Instead of debating whether his conversion is legit, why not do as we are clearly commanded in Scripture to do and get to strategically praying and interceding! If it just seems so strange to you...then take your own advice!

This thread would probably tone down if you'd just take your own advice and sit this one out.

Are you suggesting that I stand aside.... perhaps I should hold your coats while you all finish your business?

Set it out? heck I'm just here to learn, if I set it out, I can't learn anymore, because I can't ask or respond to any questions. :-)

Just because we all didn't have Kanye's fame, my guess most of us were all Kanye's at one time, just less the fame....

I have to admit that I don't really know much about Kayne West and his music. But have read with interest about his professing faith in Christ. Some of the lyrics of his new songs and titles of his new albums seem encouraging. I will admit though that his statement about not having done anything in the past that he's ashamed of to be concerning. I think that when we hear people say these sorts of things it should give us pause to wonder if the person has ever gotten a sense of their deep sinfulness before God. Or could it be that Kayne has experienced that revelation of his sinfulness..but in a moment of pride is not admitting it and is somewhat denying his faith? If that was the case, I'd say with shame that I've been there before more times than I care to admit...

But we should hope to see Kayne showing overall an acknowledgement  of his sinfulness, if he believes this truth in his heart. I John instructs us that one of the outward signs of a believer is someone whose come to recognize themselves in the way God sees them as being a sinner, deeply in need of God's forgiveness and cleansing.1 John 1:8,9:  " If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

On another note, Fletcher's admonition of being careful not to be an 'elder brother' is I think one that we need to take to heart. I'd like to share something on a personal level; something that's grieved my heart. I attend a church which focuses very strongly on good doctrine and on biblical preaching. My wife and I have been very blessed to have the opportunity to attend this church. As many of you know, all too often churches nowadays are overly seeker sensitive and preach sermons that are shallow and don't challenge us as Christians, because little of the pure Word of God is shared. Increasingly, I've heard people say, "If I could only attend a church where the word of God is preached...I'd give anything for that". This desire of many, I believe is a great thing.

Having shared now, about the positive side of this church I attend, I feel the need to also share about another side that's an area of weakness. I have often gotten the idea from pastors or speakers in our church that they are so thankful for having a church like ours, but it almost seems like they often present the idea that it's pretty much only our denomination that is in touch with God. The idea that other godly Christians exist among other denominations seems scarcely to be acknowledged. However, let's say this was the case, shouldn't we then be praying for these other Christians that they will repent and come back to their first love?

 It seems like this was the passion of men of God like Andrew Murray, when he wrote a booklet called, 'The State of the Church'. In it, he shared a lot of information which argued persuasively that the church of Christ was in a sad state of decline...Most importantly, the intent of this booklet was to stir up the hearts of Christians to see that yes the condition of the church was in a very low state....but for that reason more than ever, she needed a fresh infusion of God's power, through a pouring out of the Holy Spirit. If I remember correctly...this is just what happened. I seem to recall that God used this booklet as a catalyst, to awaken Christian's hearts to the need to pray for their weaker brothers, and for the society they were a part of...So this I believe is what happened...and a Revival from heaven followed. Praise God!

Thinking back to 1 John, another characteristic John gives us of a true Christian is someone who loves the brethren. In 1 John 2: 9,10 we're encouraged as follows: He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him".It's a sad thing but sometimes it can be the case that Christians who have a great love for doctrine and for the Word of God, may not always have a love for other Christians as they should (Sadly, this has certainly been true of me at times). Another characteristic of a Christian who is close to the heart of God it seems, is they should have a passion for souls, a love for the lost. This is something that Spurgeon emphasized often in his ministry.

Thinking of all these points, I feel that we should definitely have a concern that people like Kayne West should be exhibiting an understanding of his sinfulness and that he's walking the talk. However what if he's not? Then, whether he's a weak brother or whether not a Christian at all, we should probably pray for him. (Again this message is for me first as I don't do this as often as I should :)  )  For sure God's hand is not too short, and whether Kayne needs to be strengthened and matured in his Christian walk, or whether he needs to experience a genuine new birth, God can do it.

Please forgive the length of this post. It's just some of the things that have been shared by others connect with some of the things that have been on my mind for quite some time. Am thankful for the opportunity to discuss these things.

Take care and God bless  :)
John

I continue to be concerned that there is a big issue in all this that is looming. We seem to give songwriters a pass when what they write in their songs is often (not always) teaching of Christian doctrine. We say a Christian song is good or bad based often on whether it rightly presents the truth. The purpose of the song is clearly to instruct, persuade and direct people to truth and a true representation of a God and His ways.

I have often thought that great Christian songs are more powerful than many sermons I’ve heard in the truth they point to and bear out. Adding music to them often touches the heart more and gives greater remembrance.

I think I’ve come to the conclusion that song writers want to be teachers and are teachers of God’s word. Kanye West is too spiritually immature to be a teacher. His new album may be complete truth but the next one may be error. He shouldn’t be teaching through music unless called, mature and gifted.

I think Kanye’s case may highlight the lack of discernment the church has generally failed to exercise when it comes to teaching through music. We shouldn’t just discern the Biblical authority of the individual song but also the calling and maturity of the writer.

It is not my intention to criticize Kanye West. I am encouraged to see anyone take even one step towards Jesus. I just want his conversion to be genuine.

I wonder, though, why we as christians think we need big names and celebrities to promote Jesus. He often uses absolute nobodies to change society, bring revival etc.

13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body [a]to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not [b]puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, [c]thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is [d]perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Hi Fletcher. The passage you cited was offered to the church in Corinth because they were allowing sinful ideas in the body, they were idolizing certain teachers and thus creating division and because they weren’t using their spiritual giftings to build up the Body but rather to build themselves up. This is exactly the kind of brotherly love that causes some to be just as concerned for the body of Christ as it is impacted by teachings no matter who it is as we all are for Kanye’s spiritual condition. I’m actually very concerned about Kanye’s soul because the platform he has and the attention he is receiving is the fertile ground for soul destroying pride that will in almost all cases overcome a new and immature believer on his platform.

It’s very encouraging to hear you are "actually concerned” about another brother 🙏🏻
Might I ask what the Holy Spirit of God is leading you to do other than voice your concerns repeatedly in a public forum?

Is the body of Christ going to be damaged by it's true members welcoming into it's midst a man whom is claiming Christ and is claiming his saving grace and is seeking God and his word?

Well what if he's false? Well, what if he's a liar? Well, what if he's going to embarrass us?

All of those same questions can equally be put to you as well. What if you get off on false doctrine? What if you end up being a lair to us? What if you end up embarrassing the believers who came along side to help you?

Do you think Jesus had such a skeptical attitude about his first 12? He even knew one to be a betrayer and yet took him in.

God's word teaches us to love one another, to discern and judge. But, while we discern are you going to reach out and encourage or like the old prophet in Kings go out to the young prophet and finally lie...in an attempt to lower him to the same non-miraculous, non-God inspired, non-God lead life that he was leading? The young prophet died as a result of listening to the old man cast a wet-blanket of lies.

This kind of post should never have to be written, but it's obvious the skepticism of some of you extends beyond your faith in God to believe God to save a man.
So what if I am dead wrong? Scripture teaches I have not broken the law of God to love and aid someone seeking the kingdom. But what can be said about those who value their personal reputation and their doctrines more than their brother?
Some might say..."well I don't believe him to be my brother"
is he not at least your neighbor? So God commended the Samaritan can God commend you?
Well, he's proven he's a worldly man; so, where else do we obtain our converts?

The love of God suffers...because it believes, it endures because it hopes. When you obviously put forth the hand of skepticism instead of belief, you cannot be said to be putting forth the hand of love.

Are we ashamed of a man who is a billionaire? Are we intimidated of a man who has great worldly influence? Are we quicker to doubt a man with those attainments than a man who is poor and we are the richer and have more influence?

Sizing up Kanye with a doctrinal ruler is silly if not immaturish on our end. Weighing him on holiness scales as your self and your experience as the counter balance is a false balance...how could it be otherwise? Are you the true form God is making Kanye into?

Our only God and true way of dealing with men...all men rich or poor great or small is in the expression of love and discipleship.
Since this forum is not his go-to discipleship source our discipleship is not in-play. All we have left is to offer up prayers and encouragement that God's hand is not short, nor heavy nor weak in saving anyone.
Jesus is able to bear-up Kanye and keep him.
Our love and willingness to see his success is a mark of Christ-likeness in us. If we judge him and cast him aside are we not actually judging God and casting God's power and ways aside?

Be faithful and hopeful toward all new converts...skepticism and negativity are attributes of the devil.
We don't need to be afraid of our new converts.

Is an explanation really needed here about why we should be careful not to endorse and support the prosperity gospel message?

I know one can be saved and be deceived by the prosperity gospel, I know from personal experience. But after knowing the depths of that perverted and deceptive message I cannot in good conscience support anyone who is caught up in it and promoting it. Sorry, I fear God too much to compromise like that.

The "REAL" title of this thread should have been "The Judgement Of The Good Fight Ministries On Kanye West". Yep! now that would be more appropriate. \t

TRUE WORSHIP EXPOSES THE RELIGIOUS SPIRIT

Kanye: Jesus is King
Christians: Do you know what he has done? Do you know who his wife is?

Prostitute: Pours perfume on the feet of Jesus.
Pharisees: Do you know what she has done? Do you know who she has slept with?

Nothing new under the sun.

I do acknowledge that some "discernment” ministries (including Good Fight) have gone overboard in judging Kanye based on his past sinful behavior. I do think some of it is justifiable in terms of exercising caution, but some isn’t.

This sort of reminds me of when Justin Bieber came out and said he was a Christian and started going to church and was baptized, about 5 years ago. At the time, at first it also seemed encouraging to me. But then I saw that he continued to promote the same debauchery as before and there was no evidence of a true conversion.
Some Christians continued to defend Bieber’s profession of faith and said that he’s still young and that he needs room to grow in his walk. Well, about 5 years later there is still no evidence that he had a genuine encounter with the living Christ.

Some years ago, Kirk Franklin joined Kanye West at one of West’s demonic concerts. Franklin tried to defend his actions and said that Kanye was his brother in Christ.

The standard for Christianity in America has been lowered so much that we allow for professing Christians to behave just like the world. We don’t see any real problem with there being no difference between an atheist and a professing Christian in terms of their lifestyle. Has God’s hand gotten so weak that he cannot radically transform His people anymore?

Granted, Kanye West seems to display more positive signs than Bieber did. But again, from all the recent information I’ve gathered (both pros and cons), I believe it’s reasonable to be skeptical at this present time. He’s definitely caught up in, influenced by and preaches a prosperity gospel message, as well as inclusivism of false religions and cults, among other things.

When Zacchaeus was converted, he said, "Look, Lord, I give half of my goods to the poor; and if I have taken anything from anyone by false accusation, I restore fourfold.” And Jesus said to him, "Today salvation has come to this house, because he also is a son of Abraham; 10 for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.”(Luke 19:8-10)

Also notice how the Ephesians responded when they were converted,

"Also, many of those who had practiced magic brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted up the value of them, and it totaled fifty thousand pieces of silver. 20 So the word of the Lord grew mightily and prevailed.” (Acts 19:19)

When I see Kanye removing his demonic music from his YouTube channel, when I hear him preaching against the satanic movement he promoted for many years, when he renounces the prosperity gospel (which even Benny Hinn did recently), when he stops talking about how much of a genius he is and begins to acknowledge his sinfulness before a holy God, as opposed to saying he has nothing from his past to be ashamed of, come talk to me.

Just this past Saturday he was onstage with this foul and perverted rapper named Travis Scott at a wicked concert in Houston. Kanye sang a rap song from one of his old demonic albums there.

Brothers and Sisters,

When Paul was converted, it was a dramatic and very sudden turnaround and one sure to be noticed inside the faith and out. His conversion was deep and 100% AND he was immediately appointed by Jesus to begin a work on His behalf. This is critical to understand. Paul was converted for sure, but it was Jesus that appointed Paul for the work he was to undertake.

When Paul was converted, there was great concern among the Apostles and other disciples about whether his conversion was real. There is no criticism by the Spirit toward those who were concerned, suspicious and cautious. (Acts 9) They were concerned for a lot of reasons least of which being what he might do to the other disciples if he wasn't real. Barnabus brought him to the others and vouchsafed for him and then they interviewed Paul.

After Paul was interviewed, he went to the desert areas and was taught directly by the Lord all the doctrine he would need to do the work the Lord had specifically called and appointed him to do.

Subsequently, Paul himself felt compelled to share with the Apostles the Gospel he was proclaiming in order to insure he was preaching the right Gospel.

Paul himself was very cautious of even his own understanding.

I'm pretty certain the Holy Spirit approved of the way Paul's conversion confirmation, training and maturation for his platform with the Jews and his work with Gentiles, and his being confirmed by his fellow ministers in the faith was accomplished. Perhaps the Holy Spirit was in charge of all that and not just tolerant of it.

I'm not saying that Kanye has to go through all that. But there are principles and wisdom that should be applied when there is a very public conversion and then a far reaching ministry that is undertaken in a hurry.

Seems to me it is healthy and wise to have Kanye or anyone like him go through a quiet and out of the fray training and maturing process to insure that he is called to and equipped for such a high profile and impacting ministry. Paul's case is the best example of that wisdom.

Hi Oracio:

We've both been down the road of believing someone has believed and repented only to find out they abandoned their faith.
We know from the parable of the sower there will be 3 kinds of professors who bring forth no good fruit.

My concern is to offer grace and truth to Kanye, to offer fellowship and godly discipleship. Some who are available to meet with Kanye are doing so.

Hazarding our reputations and hearts is part of what it means to be available to God to seek and save the lost.

We wont be ashamed of being loving or giving or hopeful for someone whom we seek to help walk in the light. Some would make us ashamed because they have already judged Kanye as false before the time and will judge us to looking 'duped' if things don't go as we hoped.

I hope to articulate this without being hypocritical or compromising, but our holiness is not diminished because our love is exploited or seemingly wasted by those who later deny the faith. I am not condoning satanic music because I seek to help disciple a person who at one time lived a life of propagating it. Jesus was not less holy because he received a foot washing from a prostitute.
Our associations with the wicked do not poison the heart, it's poisoned from within not from without.

I share your concerns equally and understand where you are coming from. It's easy to put hope in what we see as genuine repentance...burning the books, renunciation of past sins and habits. It makes it really easy to put a stamp of approval upon that convert. But, my brother I have had just that kind deny the faith later as well, I was sorely grieved in what he did, but I was not saddened for my actions toward him. Gifts and prayers and helps and monies and fellowship and counsels all eventually thrown out.
Yet God is treated this way every day, I hardly think in following Christ we would be treated differently.
He continues to bless even those that deny him, to imitate Christ is to get burned like he has and yet still continue to give and love.

This is my whole point, Kanye's final condition is not foreseen in those things good or bad he does now, it is for us to imitate Christ is offering grace even when appearances show us to be foolish.

Oracio, you state

when he stops talking about how much of a genius he is and begins to acknowledge his sinfulness before a holy God .... come talk to me.

Just this past Saturday he was onstage with this foul and perverted rapper named Travis Scott at a wicked concert in Houston.

Later, Levi invited Jesus and his disciples to his home as dinner guests, along with many tax collectors and other disreputable sinners. (There were many people of this kind among Jesus’ followers.) But when the teachers of religious law who were Pharisees saw him eating with tax collectors and other sinners, they asked his disciples, "Why does he eat with such scum? - Mark 2:15-16

you have a log in your own eye. How can you think of saying to your friend, ‘Let me help you get rid of that speck in your eye,’ when you can’t see past the log in your own eye? Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend’s eye. - Matthew 7:3-5

Hi Brother:

you said: "Seems to me it is healthy and wise to have Kanye or anyone like him go through a quiet and out of the fray training and maturing process to insure that he is called to and equipped for such a high profile and impacting ministry. Paul's case is the best example of that wisdom"

well said, I heartily agree.

But we all know Pauls knocked-off-the-horse-conversion is not the mode of every believer, it never has been. Pauls blindness for 3 days is not the mode for converts. A voice from heaven rebuking Saul for persecuting Jesus himself.

You know all of this so I will labor no more on it. But we do know God has knocked many off their horses later on, he has exposed their pride and human willfulness as time went on.

The path God took Paul was only made for Paul, everyone else has God's own designed path they must take. Scrutiny of a man or woman who must take a far different path would never offer righteous discerning because God is the author of our faith, not ourselves nor the Church.

The Spirit of God that convicts of sin, righteousness and judgment does so in accordance with the master plan of God the Father, we may see the ear marks of repentance and renunciation of sins in the actions of saints gone by, but the specifics of how and when they arrived at them is the work of the Spirit...it is non-formulaic.

Hi Solomon, many times when professing Christians are confronted about their participation in night clubs and hanging out with the wrong crowds, they point to the fact that Jesus hung out and ate with sinners. Yet they don’t take into account that Jesus hung out with them to preach the gospel of the kingdom of God to them which included a call to repentance. He said He did not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance. Context, context, context brother.

Also Solomon, what is your interpretation of this passage:

"33 Do not be deceived: "Evil company corrupts good habits.” 34 Awake to righteousness, and do not sin; for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame."-1 Cor. 15:33-34

Oracio,

Exactly how is it that you believe you know the real context of why another man was in one place or another? Do you claim to see his heart? You are projecting in exactly the same way the pharisees did.

Hi Marvin,

I agree with what you said. I'm not questioning Kanye's conversion in the least. I have no idea. I am hopeful and if I had contact with him I would embrace him with affection. My only points have been addressed to his ministry happening so publicly, broadly and quickly. It's not right. It is potentially dangerous to all concerned. If we love Kanye, the brethern and the testimony of Jesus, we should all be concerned. The early church was.

We should be optimistically joyful for him but also cautious and very considerate about him getting on a platform way too early.

Solomon, you state

Exactly how is it that you believe you know the real context of why another man was in one place or another? Do you claim to see his heart? You are projecting in exactly the same way the pharisees did.

Oracio,

I've been reading every post on this thread.

I want to encourage you!

Keep fighting the good fight!

Assuredly, Jesus is well pleased with the stand you're taking. Your posts show no signs of Phariseeism. There's more clarity in one of your posts than the majority of the posts trying to refute you.

It's like what one of the other poster's said about the standard of the faith having been brought down so low, that all of this nonsense is even being given a free pass.

Stay firmly grounded upon that immovable Rock!

-------------

Edit:

"Also Solomon, what is your interpretation of this passage:"

"33 Do not be deceived: "Evil company corrupts good habits.” 34 Awake to righteousness, and do not sin; for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame."-1 Cor. 15:33-34

I noticed you got no response on that. He took the bypass and went down a different route.

Oracio stated

Also Solomon, what is your interpretation of this passage:

"33 Do not be deceived: "Evil company corrupts good habits.” 34 Awake to righteousness, and do not sin; for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame."-1 Cor. 15:33-34

If you will read the surrounding scriptures to see the context you will find that a segment in the Corinthian church were advocating embracing a full on hedonism as there was no resurrection from the dead in their beliefs.

If you will also read earlier in the Corinthian letter you will see that they had people supposedly speaking by The Holy Spirit that were proclaiming Jesus had now become accursed.

Paul is telling them to avoid close interweaving with those who promote a hedonistic lifestyle in the name of God. Although unthinkable to us, these same people also promoted the denial of Christ's resurrection and that He was now accursed ... all supposedly as a new and deeper revelation of the Holy Spirit.

It is predominately all about the centrality of the resurrection if you will read the surrounding verses. He also then clearly states that to their shame they have leaders that are not even born again.

OK ... I answered your question ... how about you now answer mine.

Savannah, thanks for the encouragement brother! Likewise! God bless!

Solomon, I appreciate you taking the time to exegete those verses. I agree with your exegesis. Towards answering your question about the context of Kanye’s recent performance at a secular concert, I thought I answered your question (not sure if you missed my reply post). My point is that he was not there to preach the gospel to the multitudes of lost people there. If you’re asking why I think he was there, I have no idea, but it wasn’t to preach the gospel.

You are digging a hole for yourself.... can you not see it?

Please give pause and prayerfully (humbly) consider your course before God🙏🏻
A point to consider if you’re interested-
Is the Lord Himself leading your actions, authoring your words, plotting your course and setting your pace? Or are you?

I have (and I hope that’s been clear) no quarrel with you personally and had no intentions on you getting your feelings hurt (that you had expressed in the "why you’re not happy” thread) the things you listed weren’t even for you they were for brother Savannah and the very fact that you attempted to derail that thread (by not committing on content) by offering opinion about the title bespeaks of a source of offense.

There is only one thing I’m after for us all.... conformity to Christ :)))
So (and hopefully this will be my last clarification) I believe that Kanye has clearly demonstrated that he has begun or is better positioned for that to happen this year than this time last year and for that I will give God praise!

FTR since you made multiple references to it I looked into his recent appearance - what I found was Travis is the father of his niece and he (Kanye) appeared briefly where after singing "follow God” and another song I’m not familiar with but who’s lyrics include "I know Jesus died for me” he then made a very public show of his reconciliation with mr.Scott -
While perhaps he (Kanye) didn’t "preach the gospel” to those in attendance (and according to the findings of many here that’s a good thing because he’s simply unqualified to do so) he actually seemed to show and put on full display what the gospel can do for a person 😇 and considering where/who he (Kanye) was last year, I’d say that maybe just maybe Jesus had a hand in the transformation....

Brethren, after watching this other recent interview which I hadn’t checked out yet, my reasons for being suspicious and cautious were more solidified:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuOCvKvrwI8

Once again throughout the interview there were no signs of being truly repentant and humbled by God’s amazing grace. He did intersperse a few positive thinking Christian comments here and there but that’s about it.

These are some notable quotes from the interview:

"I'm unquestionably, undoubtedly, the greatest human artist of all time. It's just not even a question anymore."

"I’ve never been just okay, I’ve always been amazing. So they want me to operate on a just okay format.”

He is scheduled to speak at Joel Osteen’s church this coming Sunday.

It’s clear that to him, he has started his own church and has launched a Christian movement. As brother Robert has reasoned here, that is not a good thing even if he was a true believer (I’m even more suspicious of that claim of faith now).

To me, it seems that he had an experience whereby he was "reformed” and was and is being "delivered” from certain destructive and immoral vices. Based on my understanding of God’s Word and based on certain things I’ve seen and experienced, that in itself does not constitute a true conversion whereby I should wholeheartedly embrace someone and provide the right hand of fellowship. One can have a certain type of lifestyle reformation when joining a false religion or cult.

Thank you for those thoughts Alec and Oracio.

So many times I have seen people make a profession of faith only to see it was never the real thing in the first place.

I could be charitable and ascribe those two statements you quoted to his spiritual immaturity; however an association to Joel Osteen is cause for serious concern.

I will not label Kanye as a false convert as of right now. I think the attitude Joe Schimmell expressed, wait and see the fruit he produces, is the best course of action.

You're welcome Nigel. I hear you. I shared those two quotes because they stood out, but I believe those two quotes can represent the overall tone I heard in that whole interview as well as other interviews and at his Sunday Service. Many who are caught up in the prosperity gospel display that kind of pride and arrogance overall.

This is another thing that comes to mind. From having sold his soul to the devil in the past (he admitted that some years ago at a concert), he was very possessed. It's possible that he may have gotten some deliverance from demons though not a full deliverance.

It's clear that he's been fighting against any warnings concerning the prosperity gospel as well as false religions and cults.

I do hope and pray that this turns out to be an instance of a true and radical conversion of a big name celebrity for the glory of God, and that the true gospel would go forth and bring many to the true Jesus and not to another jesus. But I also don't want to willingly and knowingly be naive after discerning certain things that should cause me to pause before celebrating.

whether his repentance is genuine or not,it is not up to us to judge him. Why make him a subject of discussion in the forum? I don't think that is Christ like enough.

It’s fairly well known that Kanye struggles with mental health issues so that must be added into this equation.

What does it look like when a person with these types of illnesses get converted?

Maybe not exactly like a mentally healthy person.

Some of the quick judgmental attitudes on this thread, is why the Church is in the mess it's in today. Wouldn't praying for the man, be better than judging him? Do we judge because of our own selfish interests? What I see here is the pouring out of many with critical spirits. Jesus explained why a judgmental attitude is so dangerous, "God will be as hard on you as you are on others! He will treat you exactly as you treat them".

In Matthew 7:1-2 "Do not judge others, and you will not be judged"."2" "Or For God will judge you as you judge others".Or The measure you give will be the measure you get back. Yes, I know many will post scriptures to combat the scriptures in Matthew above, but I would ask, go take a long look, I mean long look in your mirror, then if you feel the need to continue to judge Kanye, well then, knock your lights out.

Here’s an (applicable) excerpt from a song from the accused which seems to speak to the concerns being raised-

" I deserve all the criticism you got
If that's all the love you have, that's all you got
To sing of change, you think I'm joking
To praise His name, you ask what I'm smoking
Yes, I understand your reluctancy, yeah
But I have a request, you see
Don't throw me up, lay your hands on me
Please, pray for me”

Too much to ask?

Alec, I too want to thank you for what you shared. Very interesting bit of history which was before my time.

If we were at a Mickey D’s sipping on a hot brew in the winter or a cold Frappe in the summer (which I like better than Starbucks, sorry Starbucks lovers), this is what I envision. If you asked me if I heard the good news about Kanye’s recent conversion and the good things he seems to be doing for the kingdom, this is what I’d probably say in response. I’d say I have my reservations after doing certain research, and I’d explain why I was very suspicious and cautious. If you went on to insist that my reasons were unfounded, this is what I’d say: If you want to believe wholeheartedly that Kanye had a true conversion and that this is a work and move of God, I respect that brother. We can respectfully agree to disagree on this non-essential issue which does not affect us on a practical level right now. All I ask is that you equally respect my opinion or viewpoint on this issue. Now, let’s go preach the gospel, shall we?

When a lot of Shepherds today are not preaching the "TRUE" gospel, and their messages are designed to tickle the ears, it's a bit confusing to the secular world. So, if we have anyone to blame for some folks accepting and then rejecting the gospel, it's some of the Pastors ear tickling messages. Kanye, probably has been drawn in by the ear ticklers, "but that's just my guess" I agree with emma02/Inalegwu, "whether his repentance is genuine or not, it is not up to us to judge him". Maybe the "CHURCH" is the one that needs to be judged, because if Christ come back today, the Church would be held more accountable than Kanye would right now.

Oracio: I really like the way you work this out in your own mind.

Cautiousness and skepticism are states of mind, as such it seems their purpose would be for defense against exploitation or deception. That's a good thing. If cautiousness and skepticism are from some other kind of carnal bias, they in fact lead me into deception about the matter at hand.

But if we were to sit down together...sipping our latte's and discussing this matter, I would share your state of mind as well, but I would also say " Lets ask God to put Kanye in front of Godly men who are not the slightest bit intimated or wowed by Kanye's status in the world. Let's ask God to give him the discipleship he needs to live for Jesus as he ought".

Kanye would not be the first person to think that what he has in wealth and power he can use to his own advantage as a Christian.

But more important than a state of mind is a dependence of faith upon God in which way I should think and act so that whatever brakes have been applied to 'receiving' everything I am told to believe about Kanye...I do not put brakes on acting godly and righteously toward him.

I don't say any of this as if you don't know it, I am saying it for the benefit of others that may not.

Marvin, thank you so much for that, I concur. I agree we need to be careful not to put brakes on acting godly and righteously toward him. I’m thinking I may have "beaten a dead horse” in this thread. I'm going to end any public criticism of this man here. Blessings bro.

"It’s fairly well known that Kanye struggles with mental health issues so that must be added into this equation.

What does it look like when a person with these types of illnesses get converted?

Maybe not exactly like a mentally healthy person."

_________________________________

Mark & Luke answer your question;

And they came to Jesus and observed the man who had been demon-possessed sitting down, clothed and in his right mind, the very man who had had the "legion”; and they became frightened.
Mark 5:15

So the people went out to see what had happened, and they came to Jesus. They found the man from whom the demons had gone out, sitting at Jesus' feet, clothed and in his right mind, and they were afraid. Luke 8:35

Well if you are suggesting mental illness is always the result of demonic possession I would just say you are plain wrong and horribly so.

Nor is every illness cured at conversion, although that would be nice.

"...if you are suggesting mental illness is always the result of demonic possession..."

No...I am not suggesting that at all.

I know several, personally, who suffer from mental illness. When on their medication, they do well. When they get off their medication, I am visiting them in the psychiatric hospital or worse.

None of them excuse their behavior. They take full responsibility, and rightfully so.

When we begin justifying our behavior, namely our sinful thoughts and practices, therein lies the real mental illness.

A brain that doesn't function properly due to a chemical imbalance or deficiency cannot be equated with a sin. Nor can those who suffer from such, be said to be demon-possessed.

I hope this clears up any misunderstanding.

I certainly agree with that.

My only point was that Kanye if he truly has a mental illness may not act exactly normally even if truly converted.

Obviously he should not be blatantly sinning if he is converted.

Read this. Watch the video clips. Hear the Sheriff tell of what happened in the prison services Kanye lead this week.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/kanye-west-performs-surprise-jail-concert?utm_content=buffer358a6&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=fb-theblaze&fbclid=IwAR1DgB3w0N3A3sqhqdPccdYhWzkYxDvFV3B6SZcM8xUG97Ra1xMAcTfhlG0

Those of you that have been badmouthing this man.... YOU are exemplifying the exact reason most people reject Christ. The self righteousness that looks down its nose ... as if you have any authority ... or enough maturity to even make such a judgment.

YOU are setting such a bad example of what a Christian is that it has destroyed the message of Christ to most. Do you get that ... people reject Christ because you are setting such an egotistically bad example.

God have mercy ......

Thank you Solomon, yeah, I'm guessing all the naysayers here, just changed overnight after accepting Christ into their lives. Why not give Kanye a rest, and start beating up on me, I accepted Christ into my life in 1995 and my house/body is still under construction. So go ahead, beat up on me, I don't mind at all, especially since unlike Kanye, I'm here to defend myself or agree with your judgement. What's really sad, is we have sinners judging sinners, we call them the sinners police, so you can start by arresting me, I'm a sinner. This thread reminds me of the impeachment proceedings going on, who's the lesser of the two evils.

I remember as a 7 year old kid back in 1958, our pastor saying "You Ain't Never Been Beat Up Until You've Been Beat Up By A Christian". Amen! and sadly, that still rings true today. :-)

I don't believe I have made any negative comments about Kanye. I am merely using my God given discernment.

Is it a sin to be cautious?

If this issue is causing division then I would ask Greg to take down this thread. The last thing I want to do is divide the body of Christ.

God bless you all.

The question is whether our discernment here does any good to him or anyone else out there.

I am tempted to use one of my brother’s favorite expressions: "the lowest expectations bring the greatest rewards.”

The only problem is that I don’t want to have low expectations when it comes to what God can do. It’s almost as if we doubt His ability to do a great work in Mr West.

When you are discerning and "judging” between right and wrong, this is for your protection and wise decision-making, but it is also a call to intercession. It is not a call to faultfinding.

Discernment should not result in being suspicious of others. Yes, you can receive warnings in the spirit and judge who you should spend time with, but it should not result in your feeling suspicious of everyone you meet or finding something bad in every person.

It is not judging others, while refusing to judge yourself. We are called to examine ourselves (1 Corinthians 11:28), to keep from judging others (Matthew 7:1), and to walk in humility (Ephesians 4:2). Like any other ability given to us by God, it can be abused.

Right on Bill.

" God never gives us discernment in order that we may criticize, but that we may intercede.” ~ Oswald Chambers

Endeavors to discern if one's conversion is genuine or not are on their own not a wrong doing indeed. For we should not want to find ourselves wasting the short time trying to breastfeed (praying amongst other efforts necessary for new and growing converts) when there has not been delivery. The issue begins when this is done wrong and I prayed (and still pray - and so should all that can and are affected by this) that the Lord's grace would abound towards the same desired end - that we should be enabled to handle this (as with all and for all other men) in eternal wisdom. Because again we should not want to find ourselves loosing any new born because we neglected breastfeeding under the wrong impression that there was no delivery.

Yes we aught never to be deceived brethren, the Christian system is setup in such a way that our every neglect could yield a permanent impact - including the damning of another soul! Hence we ought to proceed with great caution and seek God's 'actual' counsel through Christ as often as it should be possible. ~My humble take on the matter :(