God doesn't need worship or praise, but we need to do it. What is worship and what is praise? Worship is what we do with our lives and praise is what we do with our mouth. We must do every thing to the glory of the lord, so our whole life should be worship and giving him praise. When we sing “I give glory to the Lord", is it praise just by saying that I do? No. Or when we sing certain Psalms like, Psalm 29 which says "Give unto the Lord, all ye mighty, give unto the Lord Power and strength. Give unto the Lord the glory due His name; worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness. The voice of the Lord is full of majesty". That isn't praise either. That is actually a song about worship and praise and it encourages us to do so. Then what is praise? Praise is like when you say to your wife, "you are so beautiful", or "you do that very well" to your children. But like I said, God doesn't need this. Then why do it? Because, Praise is for the reason of bringing our thoughts and attitude into the right perspective and helps us to meditate on God and His word.We need to attribute all our life to God.When we worship, it shows us that we need to have a goal and purpose to our life, and worship keeps our life in the right perspective. Otherwise our whole out-look will be out of focus, God is the only One worthy of all of this.
God doesn't need worship or praise
Without offending you, how long have you been a Christian?? When I was going on my 5th year, as a rocker, who played in a few bands, 3 being christian progressive rock, I thought this would be cool to write songs and worship God. Advanced foward---20 years later. I now worship the Lord, using all my abilities, I have no desire to play outside of His Sanctuary. I certainly have experienced the relationship between God and His people during intense worship. I have found many times the Lord inhabits the Praises of His people, not because we need it , but He desires our Worship! God Delights in our Praises, He in turn pours out His Spirit--for fellowship. When you go deeper, you will find its--Union! Any way you look at it, He will bring you where He wants you :-)
:) You must know this, God doesn't need anything, HE is self sustaining. if he needed our praise and worship , He wouldnt be big enough for our praise and worship. :)I Agree with all this God certainly does inhabit the Praises of His people, not because we need it , and HE does desire our Worship! God Delights in our Praises, He in turn pours out His Spirit--for fellowship. When you go deeper, you will find its--Union! Any way you look at it, He will bring you where He wants you But my main point still stands.
when we sing certain Psalms like, Psalm 29 which says "Give unto the Lord, all ye mighty, give unto the Lord Power and strength. Give unto the Lord the glory due His name; worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness. The voice of the Lord is full of majesty". That isn't praise either. That is actually a song about worship and praise and it encourages us to do so. There is more to it than that, though. You'll find that if you use the word of God from the Bible through which to worship and praise the Lord, it is a particular blessing which has a certain freedom and bestows a certain freedom to be caught up to God.There are also songs which are rather person oriented - too much about 'I' and 'my' attitude to God - and not enough about Him and towards Him. Although these songs can be given life by the Holy Spirit, they aren't as effective in bringing you into the presence of the Lord, as a Bible word or psalm.Lastly though, God delights in your totally unique and original praise and worship, regardless of the 'I's. As long as you are available to be in His presence and you don't even know if your feet are still on the ground, this works. As we worship Him genuinely, He is able to do things in us which will never happen any other time, regardless of our wishing or asking. In this respect, God does need your praise and worship, to bless you through it.
Logic, I know where you are coming from, but I think you are promoting it rather strangely. With the number of times "praise" and "sing" are in the Psalms alone, it is clear God that commands us to. True it is that God doesn't need anything from us, nor does He need us at all. However, that is not the message of His Word.Psalm 47:6: "Sing praises to God, sing praises: sing praises unto our King, sing praises." Did He mention to sing praises?
":) You must know this, God doesn't need anything, HE is self sustaining. if he needed our praise and worship , He wouldnt be big enough for our praise and worship. :)"You are correct. But I would go as far as stating that without a shadow of a doubt He desires our praises & worship more than anything else in the vastness of this world beyond our human world. Nothing more than fellowship driven by a perfect love is His goal. Why would Jesus die that horrendous death on that hill of Calvary? So I can even stretch it that in a sense ... IN A SENSE ... He needs our praise & worship, as much as we need to hear "Son [Daughter] I am here for you, your Wonderful Counselor ... He needs to hear ... Father, I am here for YOU.In His Name
I agree that He enjoys us and it pleases HIM and HE wants and Commands our praise and worship, but HE does not need a thing from us.
Logic wrote:I agree that He enjoys us and it pleases HIM and HE wants and Commands our praise and worship, but HE does not need a thing from us.Hm ... I don't know Logic. Fellowship is far deeper than adoration. Fellowship is a much deeper understanding than our human intelect can fathom with Abba. I wouldn't say He doesn't need our fellowship in accordance to His perfect will.
Joh 4:23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such to worship Him. Jesus' own words, The Father seeks such to worship Him. Sounds like He does need our worship, but I am also mindful that God is complete in Himself and in need of nothing.A perfect God would desire nothing more than to share His perfections with His creation, and He has chosen praise and worship as an instrument to do so.
I agree that He enjoys us and it pleases HIM and HE wants and Commands our praise and worship, but HE does not need a thing from us.1 GOD, of good the unfathomed sea!Who would not give his heart to thee?Who would not love thee with his might?O Jesu, lover of mankind,Who would not his whole soul and mind,With all his strength, to thee unite?2 Thou shin'st with everlasting rays;Before the insufferable blazeAngels with both Wings veil their eyes;Yet free as air thy bounty streamsOn all thy works; thy mercy's beamsDiffusive as thy sun's arise.3 Astonished at thy frowning brow,Earth, hell, and heaven's strong pillars bow;Terrible majesty is thine!Who then can that vast love expressWhich bows thee down to me, who lessThan nothing am, till thou art mine?4 High throned on heaven's eternal hill,In number, weight, and measure stillThou sweetly orderest all that is:And yet thou deign'st to come to me,And guide my steps, that I, with theeEnthroned, may reign in endless bliss.5 Fountain of good! all blessing flowsFrom thee; no want thy fulness knows;What but thyself canst thou desire?Yes; self-sufficient as thou art,Thou dost desire my worthless heart;This, only this, dost thou require.6 Primeval Beauty! in thy sightThe first-born, fairest sons of lightSee all their brightest glories fade:What then to me thine eyes could turn,In sin conceived, of woman born,A worm, a leaf, a blast, a shade?7 Hell's armies tremble at thy nod,And trembling own the Almighty God,Sovereign of earth, hell, air, and sky:But who is this that comes from far,Whose garments rolled in blood appear?'Tis God made man, for man to die!8 O God, of good the unfathomed sea!Who would not give his heart to thee?Who would not love thee with his might?O Jesu, lover of mankind,Who would not his whole soul and mind,With all his strength, to thee unite?Johann Scheffler, translated by John Wesley
Worship comes from "worthship". What is God worth to you? I can tell you that the first time I worshipped God was when I was first flooded inside with His presence. The only form of "worship" I was aware of was ritualistic religious worship. What happened to me when God showed up was the result of His presence filling me to overflowing. The overflow was worship. I wept, I raised my heart and my hands toward heaven. I ran outside and all stars in the heavens seemed to be worshipping God, and me right along with them. It was glorious. It was undescribable. It cannot be taught. It can only be the result of a close and inimate encounter with our God. As our dear brother has already posted below, God is looking for worshippers, who worship in Spirit and in truth. His Word is truth. So reading, valuing, and proclaiming His Word is worship. "In spirit" happens when we draw near in our hearts to His prsence within us, and include and value His presence in everything we do and say, day by day moment by moment, just as Jesus did. We run to be alone with Him. When I met my wife, I wanted to be alone with her. When there were others around, I couldn't wait for them to leave so I could spend time with her alone. What about God. Is He held in such high esteem in your life...or mine, that we can't wait to be alone with Him? I pray that He is. Praise and worship go far beyond what occurs in organized church. Yes it is glorious when we come together and God inhabits our praises. But it is even more glorious when we realize that He has inhabited our life. It produces groanings that cannot be put into words. What people write and say about worship are attempts to descibe the glory of God in our hearts. Just as our God exceeds our ability to quantify His glory, when it floods our soul it is just beyond our ability to convey so that our reader or listener might understand. Let me give you a short example, then I'll close. You can learn all there is to know about parachutes. You can teach all there is to know about them. You can design them, teach others how to use them. You can even accompany skydivers as they jump out of the plane and watch them decend and see the chute open. It could be one that you have constructed yourself. But friend, until you strap one on your back and jump out of that plane, you don't really "know" parachutes.It's the same with God. To know worship is not to hear or read, but to experience the living God for yourself. For that, you have to go to the cross with Christ, and die. We cannot enter into His life, unless we lose our own. Just like the parachutist cannot enter into free fall unless he leaves the plane behind. Once he jumps, there is no going back. It's the same with the cross. It is the only door to the throne. The blood of Jesus sprinkled on our life is all that will ever allow us audience with the Father. Oh how glorious this audience is. When this happens, you wont' need someone to describe it too you, you know it beyond description, and it is more glorious that words can convey.In awe of His wonder and glory,Lahry
God is looking for worshippers, who worship in Spirit and in truth.The word worship has changed in meaning through a lot of sloppy use. God doesn’t need what we would define as worship – religious activity, singing, etc but he requires our worship. When we worship something that means we trust it more than God, we love it, we fear it, we spend a lot of time thinking about, it and we giving our allegiance to it, we use it to prop up our sense of worth and belonging. We might be worshiping our money, our possessions, our friends, our house, our car, our food, our TV, our nation, our leaders, our children, our church, our ‘worship’ times, our intelligence, our Bible knowledge, …. Etc. God commands that HE be the ONLY object of our worship. Worshipping all other objects is idolatry. And we don’t need to put up a shrine before we label it as false worship. The shrine resides in our heart. So really, our praises and singing do not necessarily reflect our true worship. Instead our daily choices do. God wants our total allegiance!!! So, let’s ask him what idols may be lurking in our hearts. Let's examine to what extent we may be failing to worship in Spirit - ie listening to his words of truth, conviction and direction.Thanks for bringing up this important subject. Diane
I believe that God brought you here because he wanted you to know good things of him and he knew he would give me some words to write to you.He is challenging you he does want you. There are many ways in which he could use you and as you look to him he will teach you.He has done this for my Brother, who had a miraculous encounter with God. He was not walking with him although had known church and scripture in his young life. He came back from his travels around the world.I got him to church And he fell under Gods power the moment we started singing. He continued to stand up, resisting the power on him. That was his happening.He and myself had been prayed for by my Mother and others for lots of years. and the prayers were answered. He is in tune with God that is his walk with him. He turned over his whole life and I saw him recently and I know he is going to be used very much. He is now 38 and is going to marry a girl 34 Who has done, God work and mission, here and in africa, France and another place where she did some translating and lived the way of life there.God moves on lives given to him to be led by him.I will pray for you.Take up the challenge, let him speak to you.Amenellie.
But you are right. If God needed anything He wouldn't be God. If He did need something like praise or worship and didn't get it, what would happen to Him? Accept that the rock would cry out. 8-)
But you are right. If God needed anything He wouldn't be God.There are times when God has bound Himself prophetically to 'need' things. Not that God needed anything, but according to His divine purpose He subjected Himself to need certain things. Here is one example:And when they drew nigh unto Jerusalem, and were come to Bethphage, unto the mount of Olives, then sent Jesus two disciples, Saying unto them, Go into the village overagainst you, and straightway ye shall find an ass tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me. And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them. All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, they King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass. And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them, And brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon. God has also so ordered that man should hear the Gospel via human agency. In this sense God hath decreed that he "hath need" of man. Many occasions where this is true. Sure God could have chosen other means of accomplishing His purposes, but at times He has bound himself to do things a certain way and therefor "hath need" of those means with which He bound Himself. As for praising and worshipping God I suppose God could praise Himself. Arguably He did so several times in Genesis 1 when He looked at His creation and called it 'good' and 'very good'. I suppose He would be the only one worthy to do it if you thought long on it. Yet He has created man for His own pleasure. It is God's will that he be pleased. So worship is an act of obedience whether God 'needs' it or not. I have a little axiom I picked up years ago:1) If you do not fear him you will not reverence Him2) If you do not reverence Him you cannot worship Him3) If you do not worship Him then His presence cannot be upon your lifeGod wants worshippers first and workers second. Work without worship is worthless. We need to draw near and worship. We need to be right so that we can look the Lord as it were in the eye with a clear conscience. God Bless,-Robert
And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them ; and straightway he will send them. You are referring to Jesus in His Earthly body when He needed alot of things but I was talking about now.God has also so ordered that man should hear the Gospel via human agency. In this sense God hath decreed that he "hath need" of man. Many occasions where this is true. Sure God could have chosen other means of accomplishing His purposes, but at times He has bound himself to do things a certain way and therefor "hath need" of those means with which He bound Himself. agreed.Yet He has created man for His own pleasure. It is God's will that he be pleased. So worship is an act of obedience whether God 'needs' it or not. God is pleased when we benifit from Him and that is Logic's main point of his statementI have a little axiom I picked up years ago:1) If you do not fear him you will not reverence Him2) If you do not reverence Him you cannot worship Him3) If you do not worship Him then His presence cannot be upon your lifeas I said, I think Logic's main point is that God wants us to praise and worship Him for our own benifit. He only comands things for our good. That was his main piont and not to be eareverant. 8-) :-P ;-) :-) :-D
Since we are looking at God's "needs" in a scientific light:God doesn't need the reedemed, but if He does not receive his redeemed, then He has not received the reward for His sufferings. And if the redeemed do not worship Him and give Him praise, then the redeemed are not giving Him the reward of his sufferings, and the cross was in vain.Fully explained by Paris Reidhead's, "Ten Shekels and a Shirt," below:https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=282
Y'know, God is far bigger and more able than we can conceive. His love is vaster. His Light is brighter. His knowledge is deeper. His wisdom is higher. His compassion is richer. His grace is more winsome. His voice is more compelling.You may wish to deprive yourself of sinking into this ocean of abundance and joy, of freedom from care and sheer exhiliration in the Spirit, of adoration in its safest setting and abandonment to the ministry of His tenderness. It's your choice, (not mine). Worshipping God is wonderful, and that's an understatement of the highest order.
Hi Moriah,You are referring to Jesus in His Earthly body when He needed alot of things but I was talking about now.Somehow in the midst of these posts I have failed to gather the point. I think it important to understand that in relationships there are those that 'feel' needed and those who feel wanted. When it comes to God 'needing' me that would be one thing, but knowing that God 'wants' me is a whole different thing all together. Does God desire fellowship with man? Does God 'need' fellowship from man? God desires and 'seeketh' such to worship Him. It is important how we look at this whole issue of worship. The enemy hates the worship of God and has spent his days trying to userp that worship. He brazenly solicited worship from our Lord. He desired to ascend into the sides of the Lord and be like the Most High God. So when we say God does not 'need' worship we must use great caution not to give the impression that God does not 'want' or even 'demand' our worship. The whole thought is warped if you look at it 'logically'. Imagine if I say God does not 'need' me to to bow down before Him in reverence. That would be as 'off' as saying that a judge does not 'need' all to 'rise' when he walks from his chambers. Or it is like saying our parents do not 'need' us to honour them. Or imagine if I said that the police don't need me to pull over when the lights are on in my rear view mirror. The whole question is rife with confusion. And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. (Isaiah 66:24)Compare to:But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. (Luke 19:27)This is the penalty for refusing to bow the knee in this life. As you can see it can hardly be said that the Lord 'needed' thier worship; it goes without saying that the the most high being is to be utterly revered and worshipped. The only one who does not believe this is Satan and his children.
My whole point to this topic is that God only comands things for our own benifit. I gave worship as an example of how we benifit. But I still stand on the fact that GOD does not NEED our praise or our worship, We need to do it.God is worthy and we sin if we refuse to.I would doubt anyones salvation if they don't worship and praise God in spirit and in Truth.
My whole point to this topic is that God only comands things for our own benifit.So why did He create the universe?
For His own good pleasure! Rev. 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.Other verses are...Psalms 149:4 For the LORD taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation.Luke 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure
Why must you continue to rip apart scripture; remove it from context; & try to fit any verse to "prove" your point?
Interesting yet...Logic, am a bit unsure of the necessity of this. It seems to be stating the obvious on the one hand, like a round circle. This becomes wrought with problems as was mentioned. Job 38:12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place; Job 38:13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? Job 38:16 Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth? Job 38:18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all. Job 38:33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?Job 38:36 Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart? My whole point to this topic is that God only comands things for our own benifit. I gave worship as an example of how we benifit. But I still stand on the fact that GOD does not NEED our praise or our worship, We need to do it.Then why create mankind? And more so, what if it turns out He does indeed need our worship? Because He Himself created the 'need'?The other problem with the way you are putting this in "We need to do it" reverses the role of God in demanding something, turning us back into mere robots or under the thumb of a cruel dictator. I do realize the sentiments you expressed earlier here and don't think you are attempting to miss the point or make the point... perhaps it's besides the point. The point is, we worship Him because He is worthy to be praised!I would doubt anyones salvation if they don't worship and praise God in spirit and in Truth. You really don't want to "go there" do you? What if they haven't gotten to that understanding yet? Besides do you really want to be acting as judge in this matter? Just food for thought.
Wow, that was the first time I lost a post since I've been on here.Well, anyways, what I had written was ... I confess to not opening this thread before just now and went against my word and didn't read all the pages. I'm sorry !!!It's just that the Title threw me or Scared me, or 'whatever'. Anyhow, I like the word Mike used, as in "robotic".Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. The emphasis in this verse is not on "Must Worship" but "must be in Spirit and in Truth".Romans 8 talks about "walking in the Spirit."Just two verses from it...Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. Jesus said, that the Holy Spirit is the "Spirit of Truth", Who brings ALL attention to God & Christ, and Glorifies God/Jesus Constantly (like in Heaven).Before Jesus, This Same Spirit, only dwelled in the Holy of Holies, of the temple.Now imagine that ... We have access to that same Spirit of Glory, within us. PHEW-WOW!!!But we choose, whether to "walk in the Spirit", (lean/depend on HIM for every decision, etc.etc.), or to continue to just walk in the natural man or flesh, or whatever we are that you prefer to call our soul, or mind, or self, etc.We don't gotta do nuttin', (So to speak), it's a 'choice' walk ... As in - the difference between "the letter of the law" and the "spirit of the law" ... But "if that same Spirit dwells in you, that dwelled in Christ and the Temple, etc. then the "gotta" is in Romans 8 "Walk in the Spirit". (Actually, that part is the command)We live in the flesh most of our lives. Before and after Salvation.But after His Indwelling comes, upon Salvation, we have the 'Choice', to wait on, lean on, be dependent on, be 'led' by, and "walk" in His Spirit or to just continue to plow on autonomously.If then and so, that we get into "Dependence on Him" - then He (by His Spirit) will lead us into all Truth, will be Christocentric and will be in a constant state of worship ... cuz, that's what the Spirit of Glory,Christ,Truth,God, does 24/7.Yeeeeeeeeee-haaaaaaaaa, and in Heaven too !
TiltedHalo Said, "Why must you continue to rip apart scripture; remove it from context; & try to rip apart & try to fit any verse to "prove" your point? Please, show me the scriptures I rip apart and fit any verse to "prove" my point.If your talking about the last statement I made for the quetion, :So why did He create the universe? asked by philologos. How is this wrong? For His own good pleasure! Rev. 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.I used the other verses to show that God only does things for HIS pleasure. Because He has no need.Psalms 50:12 If I were hungry, I would not tell thee: for the world is mine, and the fulness thereof.
crsschk said, "Then why create mankind? And more so, what if it turns out He does indeed need our worship? Because He Himself created the 'need'?"What if" questions are mute since they are unprooveable, so it is an irrelevant point.The other problem with the way you are putting this in "We need to do it" reverses the role of God in demanding something, turning us back into mere robots or under the thumb of a cruel dictator.I must disagree because He still gives a choise, He doesn't make us to worship or praise, and how does it make God demanding if it only benifits us. Maybe I should change the "need" to "Should" for it to say that we should do it to reep the blessing from doing it and from Him.I do realize the sentiments you expressed earlier here and don't think you are attempting to miss the point or make the pointThanks for realizing the sentiments, I wonder if you even agree to the main point? do you?perhaps it's besides the point. The point is, we worship Him because He is worthy to be praised! O.K. I agree that I should have mentioned that He is worthy to be praised and worshiped along with my first post in this thread, but I thought that was assumed and obvious, and that is why I didn't mention it.I said, "I would doubt anyones salvation if they don't worship and praise God in spirit and in Truth." then you responded, "You really don't want to "go there" do you? What if they haven't gotten to that understanding yet? Besides do you really want to be acting as judge in this matter? Just food for thought." What if they haven't gotten to that understanding yet? That is ridiculous absurd, and Contrary to nature, reason, or common sense;. Someone who knows that they are on their way to an eternaty into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm(conscience) dieth not. They also agree that they deserve this punishment, from the Law doing its work in them, and they cry out as Paul does, "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"(Romans 7:24) Then they find Grace, that God will have mercy on them and deliver them out from this just condemnation, and they don't worship and praise God in spirit and in Truth? Yes, I would doubt that they are saved.Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."Besides do you really want to be acting as judge in this matter?" The bible is clear about this, I am not acting as judge but I am showing what the judge has said.