Believing the Prophets about the USA election.. 2 chron 20...

Bro and sisters.
There are many opinions about this current election in the USA. Im not into opinions or secular news.. I am believing that the TRUE prophetic words have said. I believe Prophet Kim Clement said President Trump will serve two terms.
You believe what you will. I will believe the Prophetic voices that are speaking.. Yes Pls test the spirits as the WORD teaches.
2 CHRONICLES 20:20
20 And they rose early in the morning, and went forth into the wilderness of Tekoa: and as they went forth, Jehoshaphat stood and said, Hear me, O Judah, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem; Believe in the Lord your God, so shall ye be established; believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper.

"Elections as the Red Sea of Control"

Johnny Enlow, Nashville, TN

The enormity of what is presently being exposed with the massive and multi-pronged voter fraud cannot be overstated. The freedom of the world is at stake. Elections around the world are ALL manipulated, and while the idea of a "Democracy" is a great tease, it presently doesn't really exist.

"Red Sea" Control

I believe this is the one interruptive chance in history to bring down what is the equivalent of the Red Sea in the book of Exodus. How so? We remember the story of Moses leading the Israelites out of Egypt””after Pharaoh "relented" and granted them freedom. But then, suddenly, the Red Sea was before them and Pharaoh was chasing them down and they knew they couldn't get past that overarching control mechanism.

Pharaoh had said, "Yes, you are free to go worship your God," and so the Israelites could move COMPARED to the previous level of bondage, but Pharaoh knew he had another control mechanism that will still hem them in: "Deep State" control. This is where we are today.

We, and all "free" nations, need to be led through the Red Sea of orchestrated elections and thus orchestrated control. We have known and focused on financial fraud/corruption on the pre-election side of things, but the REAL corruption is in the vote stealing and subsequent election manipulation. He/she who counts and certifies elections determines who runs the nations. It is a Red Sea of control. (Photo via Pxhere)

Grueling Exposure

The reason this exposure process today must be grueling, thorough, exhaustive, and complete is because it goes way beyond simply this election. The control of "Pharaoh" through his "chariots" and through his "Red Sea" (perhaps also "Red C" as in CCP) must be broken once and for all””after multiple generations of control. The whole world is now watching and it is important they all see it happen. It is NO coincidence that a primary software of election control is called DOMINION. It is all about controlling the people while making them believe that THEY have the power to choose leaders. "Get out and vote" campaigns have been a relative charade in the light of the whole real picture. It has mainly all been a farce. Smoke and mirrors. Fake. Fraud.

But That All Changes Now...

To diagnose the "giants" in the land, while not seeing God at work, only leads to immense futility. This is where I suddenly shift and tell you prophetically that this Red Sea of control is coming down now! The same Red Sea that did the controlling will now drown the very manipulators who have used it. Their own "chariots" are about to be bogged down in the very mud they have created, rendering them inoperable and accelerating their destruction. They will "hang by their own noose." (Photo via Pixabay)

Repentance is always an option until judgment has come””but it is coming now. The first red tsunami will be seen by them as they get absolutely avalanched by a massive wave of roaring justice. God has raised Trump as a modern-day Moses to lead this nation and, by extension, the nations of the world out of multi-generational oppression.

Though even a good man-initiative could fail, this God-initiative will not fail. He who begins a good work””finishes it. Our God reigns! The refuge of lies will be devastated at a global level. The new era will not be one of next-level control, but it will be one of next-level freedom. HOLD THE LINE. KEEP THE FAITH. DO NOT TAKE ONE STEP BACK. GOD WINS. HIS PLAN WINS.

hi Eagleflying,
Here's what I noticed or observed during this election cycle
Point 1
1.Alot of people prophesied Trump to win(we still dont know the outcome)
2.Some of these people were way out there on the 0 to crazy scale
3.Others were not,they were level headed and humble
My conclusion
You can have true and false prophets proclaiming the same thing but it doesnt make the false prophets true.

Point 2
1. Alot of prophets who said that Trump would win are backing down in two legalistic ways
A-They are saying God didnt say that he would win in 2020 but that he would have two terms ,fobbing it off til 2024 when what they said will be forgotten saying Trump will win then
b-The other escape route seems to be "I was prophesying the will of God" and "the church didnt pray it in"

Point 3
The other prophets who still believe Trump will win are sticking to their guns and not making excuses and still believe that Trump will win.

Point 4
I observed that most of the people who are "calling out false prophets" are themselves claiming to believe in prophesy and words of wisdom but are as dry spirtually as the Sahara desert and want everyone else to be too

Point 5
This election and 2016 elections are not normal elections.
God is clearly on the side of one and not on the side of the other who ever wins.This election is completely corrupt with voter fraud ,voter suppression and criminality on a scale never even thought could happen.

Point 6
This is a hugely significant year in American spiritual history with the pilgrims arriving 400yrs ago

My own view
If I were with the Israelites just arriving at the red sea and the Egyptian Army was on my tail ,how would I feel?
I would be looking at impossiblity of the situation we are in.Their is nothing I can do to get out of the situation ,I am helpless except for God.
And thats the point isnt it,If this situation is to be turned around only God will get the glory .The parting of the red sea was such a triump for God that we are still talking about thousands of years later.

Do I have any insight spiritually into it?
I had a brief dream from the Lord which told me that "the demorcrats would claim victory first" and I saw that if Trump stepped outside the door of the whitehouse that they would try to arrest him.
My dream doesnt resolve the question though.

So I am praying that God seperates the waters once again and for right to prevail so that God can get the glory and 75million to 80 million people who voted for the right result will bow down and give glory to him ,
urs staff

My prayer for America is:

1. Lord, forgive us still for our idolatries. We never seem to learn. We still cling to this world. I still cling to it. One idol is the belief in democracy. Forgive me (us) for venerating it apart from the context of mutual submission and unity in Christ -- a context that only happens in the church.

2. If You're waking up Your people or if You are finally bringing to fruition our foolish requests for peace with the rulers of this age and order of this age, please show us mercy once more. Please withhold from us our own requests for things that we ought not to ask and things we are too dull to avoid. Please put in our hearts, minds and spirits a new and inescapable awareness of Your work in this time. Make us understand, however severely You must, but to understand while there is still space to repent, love and obey You -- make us understand Your Word as you are bringing it to bear in this generation as in no other before us.

3. Remind us, Lord, in the deepest recesses of our hearts, in those place within us that want to respond to indignities with swift correction and justice --- remind us to hold still because we don't know truly the scope and courses of those evil powers that leverage the easily roiled Adams of this world against our own peace. Lord, as the enemy arrays against us, and as we are prone to respond in kind with the weapons of carnal warfare, put a word into the mouths of Your shepherds and the ears of Your sheep to follow You through the truly green pastures and through the valley of the shadow of death to the table You have prepared for us where we will not have to fight that enemy, but will sit with one another and take the Body and the Blood and in Your Spirit while You prepare that enemy for destruction that only You can deliver.

Help us love one another, Lord.

Hi Dolfan,
This thread is not about prayers for America ,its about Eagles comments on the "believeing the prophetic"
So it would be better in my opinion if we stuck to what the thread is about which is "believing the prophetic" and all that surrounds that,its not about repentance or idolatory or Love ,yours staff

Hi Caleb4life,
I cant help what sits well in your spirit or not well,thats not in my remit.I am telling it the way I see it .His reply had nothing at all to do with the US election.
Also am I not a brother or sister also?
You are being hyper sensitive in my opinion,staff

hi Thank you brother Caleb,I am more than happy to hear Tims opinions on anything he wishes to speak about.staff

Hey, everyone, no worries. I suppose I could've been clearer. My prayer is in response to these prophetic statements. I didn't really think it was necessary to label that, but that's all good.

To be straightforward, I'm not concerned with these prophetic statements at all. As I personally and individually understand the New Testament gift of prophecy, it should happen within the local church context for the local church and to be tested within the local church. I won't judge anyone who EagleFlying quoted because I'm not in the local church where those statements were uttered. If they weren't given in that context, then I default to what I understand from Scripture and will disregard them. I don't condemn them; I just don't consider them.

Having said that, I pray. And my prayer is what I shared from my heart. So, no offense taken. All is well.

This is how the Lord dealt with me: I woke up Wed night / early Thursday morning (3am Nov 5th) and turned on YouTube to view what the prophets were saying! I watched Mario Murillo then Terry Cook on Sid Roth and then I went back to sleep still not knowing anything because their dreams didn't comfort my heart.

I woke up a couple of hours later and was praying and the Lord spoke clearly to my spirit, "Why do you seek prophets to eat their crumbs when you can eat the Bread of Life, ask Me and I will withhold no good thing from you."

I believe in prophets today but if these prophets have had dreams and visions, maybe they weren't for the world but for themselves and their secret prayer closet.

Every one who prophesies isn't a prophet. One is an office and one is a gift. Jesus said we'll know them by their fruit. I didn't know Kim Clement personally so I don't know any of his fruit, so right or wrong, I don't eat it.

Every single child of God has the ability to hear from heaven, but do we? Do we spend the time it takes to hear from the Throne of God? And can God trust us with the answer? Will we jump on FB or YouTube and tell everybody, "Look what God told me!" What He told us in confidence?

In March, the Lord told me "I'm revealing the hearts of men." And I don't think He's stopping anytime soon.

God bless us all through a time such as this,
Lisa

Amen Lisa.

Hi Just a few points ,
Without Prophesy we dont have edification and exhortation and comfort that comes out of Prophesy.So even though we can hear from God directly as Lisa said ,we can also hear from God through others which God himself put in place with the gift of Prophesy.Some of the people I saw on youtube prayerfully put what they were hearing up for people to hear and were diligent when to talk and when not to talk.

"But everyone who prophesies speaks unto men to edification, and exhortation and comfort” (1 Corinthians 14:3)

A problem with a wing of the Pentecostal Church is the showmanship and the self proclaimation as Prophets.John the Baptist was one of the greatest Prophets but he did not even call himself one,he just did the business.

I have watched Kim Clement and his words are not as clear as everyone says and he is well into the showmanship bracket but he did get some of it right.As for the two terms of Trump alot of the youtubers seem to be using this as away out ,hinting he will get his second term in 2024.
Then their are some who rightly are sticking to their guns as this is not over yet.
We are at the Red Sea and are waiting and watching to see God open up the waters for us,staff

P.s
I put this link here as this woman got Brexit right when it looked like all was lost and the death of a supreme court Judge in 2020.
https://www.hiskingdomprophecy.com/america-and-the-trump-biden-poker-game/

Hi Just an update which to the best of my knowledge is correct but i will check further and share the link then.

As of YESTERDAY Supreme court judges have had their duties or responsibilities changed by who nobody seems to know.The duties include responsiblity of circuit courts.Each of these circuit courts have states attached to them .

The upshot is this
Judge Kavanaugh is over Michigan
Judge Thomas is over Georgia
Judge Barret is over Wisconsin
Judge Alito is over Pennsylvania

All of these judges are conservative strict constitutional judges and if a court case comes before them from these states all of which are accused of voter fraud then it will be decided by a conservative judge.
This is only as of yesterday if it was before yesterday these states may not have been in the hands of conservative judges.This change all stems from the death of Justice Ruth Bader Gainsburg,urs staff
Alleliua

Hi all it comes from this part of the US code

28 U.S. Code §”¯42. Allotment of Supreme Court justices to circuits

The Chief Justice of the United States and the associate justices of the Supreme Court shall from time to time be allotted as circuit justices among the circuits by order of the Supreme Court. The Chief Justice may make such allotments in vacation.

A justice may be assigned to more than one circuit, and two or more justices may be assigned to the same circuit.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 646, 62 Stat. 870.)

Sister Lisa
Thanks for your response. We are all accountable for what we believe. Scripture is clear a true Prophets's word will come to pass. You might want to check out Kim Clement.. Many of His words like David Wilkersons have come to pass..
The WORD IS TRUTH.. We must test all things..

Deut 18:22
when a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously; thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Be Blessed
in Christ
Sister Frannie

Thanks for the reply.. Staff member can u not give a name?
"A problem with a wing of the Pentecostal Church is the showmanship and the self proclaimation as Prophets.John the Baptist was one of the greatest Prophets but he did not even call himself one,he just did the business. "

I believe and Im free to believe what I do. as you are. If you want to criticize prophets today go for it. I will not join in. WITH criticizing others.. I certainly have no right to criticize anyone else. I have not arrived and He is still working on me..
I have discernment and have learned to test all things.. Especially people criticizing others in the body of CHRIST THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING critical and testing the spirits.. I believe
. I am a believer who BELIEVES IN THE PROPHETS OF OLD AND TODAY... I test all things and if the character of the Prophet or Prophetess doesnt match the gifting then GOD WILL DEAL WITH THEM.. HE IS THE ONLY PERFECT PROPHET..
the five fold ministry is necessary for every church..
In Prophesy we all prophesy in part and as a Daughter of the KING I listen pray and Hear His word for me.. A word must bear witness.. If a prophetic word comes and u dont receive it reject it.. If a prophetic word lines up with HIS WORD and turns you from your sin.. receive if u bear witness. THis is whAT i HAVE LEARNED FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT..
1 Cor 13:
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
you believe what you want its all good..
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Be Blessed
in Christ
Sister Frannie

Amen..
If we study the word.. i cor 12 is about the gifts, I COR 13 IS ABOUT THE BEST GIFT.. 1 cor 14 is about the gifts.. I believe this is why the Apostle Paul put 13 in the MIDDLE...
May we all have a Fresh infilling of HIS LOVE IN JESUS NAME THE BEST GIFT..
IN Christ
Sister Frannie

Hi Eagle
Here is Dick Morris explaining the change of roles for the Supreme Court Judges.I think he explains it very well and it basically means that the Supreme Court judges may be more sypathetic to Trump than the lower state courts ,staff

https://www.dickmorris.com/category/lunchtime-videos/

Hi, staff --

Can I jump in on the courts/justices question? This is not to contradict what you've said, but to fill in some gaps.

Trump's litigation in Michigan, for example, began only in part in the federal district courts.**(See footnote.) He must appeal any decision from those courts to the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals. That court must pass on a matter before it reaches the SCOTUS. That takes quite a bit of time, probably more than he has.

Because of that short window, an emergency MAY (I emphasize that word because I don't know that SCOTUS will view any of Trump's cases as having sufficient merit on their faces to invoke this kind of relief....) but MAY exist such that the SCOTUS *CAN* (IF it sees sufficient merit in any case, as noted above) essentially step down and pull that appeal up to itself to be heard.

This is a different pathway than any of the Justices who have statutory supervisory emergency powers to stop certain court actions below, or to stop the enforcement of inferior courts within a state.

In Bush v. Gore, no individual justice stepped in to stop or enforce anything. The matter came to them under Supreme Court Rule 11 (which allows them to do what I described above) on an emergency petition concerning a matter of extreme public, national importance. There the SCOTUS granted the petition to essentially skip the Florida Supreme Court AFTER they had been petitioned by the Bush campaign to take up the case and come straightaway to them. (In fact, Florida's Sup. Ct. actually had issued an order to recount, but the SCOTUS took it up before that could happen.)

So, the notion that an individual justice can do much of anything beyond a very, very temporary (hours long to only a few days at the most) halting of activity here is probably not going to happen, and I seriously doubt that even that will (but who knows?) If it DID happen, the fact that an individual justice will have halted that activity is nothing more than a brake pedal and at some very soon point, they'd have to release the brake.

At this point, President Trump has gone 0 for 12 or worse on his cases in several states.

**FOOTNOTE: Not all of Trump's own lawsuits nor all of the lawsuits filed by others seeking relief that would benefit him are filed in federal court. Some are filed in state courts and those have NOT made their way through state appeals processes, probably won't (there's no news of appeals on these), and cannot be taken up by the SCOTUS unless they have been fully litigated at the state level including appeals to the highest state court of those particular states.

Hi Dolfan,
My understanding by listening to Guiliani is that they are just going through the motions with the lower courts and dont expect to win anything much at state level.
The way I see it is that the supreme court judge over a particular circuit can hear and rule on a case brought to her or him without the whole supreme court being involved.If for instance the decision went in favour of Trump then Biden would have to appeal to the full supreme court to overturn that decision.
On the individual states
Georgia is being sued because the AG made changed the laws rather than the Georgia Law makers.Lin Wood the lawyer handling this is super convident that the whole Georgia election will be thrown out and the lower ballot elections will have to be redone and the Presidential vote will go to congress and not be redone
PA is similar because Judge Alito stepped in and the ballots werent separated .Also the Guiliani is arguing a double standard in the election that is not allowed under constitution.
In Wisconsin 100,000 ballots could be thrown out because their laws states that absentee ballots have to be requested which they werent .
In Michigan may not be able to certify the result as two canvassers have refuesed in one of the counties to certify.

Even CNN had a headline today that was later changed which said "vote cerfication in Michigan and Pennsylvania in question"

On whether its a better thing that conservative judges are over 4 of the 5 key states it is without doubt much better whether its enough I dont know to be honest ,staff

Staff,

Our country is better when people like you pay attention to issues. I appreciate you and your heart, too. A brother I know has cautioned many to not allow patriotism to be an idol, but not to throw love of country into the trash while we await the troubling times to come. After all, peace and liberty are not altogether gone from us. People have, indeed, voluntarily died for these freedoms we have. We're together thankful for what we still have. And, we're together concerned about losing it.

I will respond to a few of your last points, respectfully.

You said, "My understanding by listening to Guiliani is that they are just going through the motions with the lower courts and dont expect to win anything much at state level."

"Going through the motions" requires substantive evidence of the things they complain about. I don't think they have it. We can recite what they have and think they have all day, but it doesn't add up to meeting the burden of proof in court. IF they have it, and produce it, and the cases get tossed, then it is possible that the appeals process may yield some fruit -- even if not enough to matter. We'll see. I know why Rudy said what he said, but I also know that to prevail on appeal, you have to present real, substantive evidence that meets the burden of proof. We'll see.

You said, "The way I see it is that the supreme court judge over a particular circuit can hear and rule on a case brought to her or him without the whole supreme court being involved.If for instance the decision went in favour of Trump then Biden would have to appeal to the full supreme court to overturn that decision."

I'm afraid not. That is not at all how it works. Not at all. No individual justice may take up a matter on appeal. These cases are taken up through "appeals by right" or "certiorari". There are very, very few categories or cases of so-called "appeal by right". Almost all cases come to the SCOTUS through certiorari or "cert" as it is abbreviated. An appeal to them through cert is discretionary; they can take it or leave it. If 4 justices say "let's take it", then "cert" is "granted" and the Court hears the case. If fewer than 4 say so, "cert" is "denied" and whatever the most recent decision was remains -- that's the end of the line. In Bush v. Gore, for example, they took it. They didn't have to. They don't have to in any of the cases currently filed by or for the President's benefit.

What you describe, though, in your statement IS akin to a process in the Circuit Courts of Appeal. There, appeals from federal trial courts go by right. The circuit courts each have a presiding judge. The circuits also have rotating, territorial panels of three judges who can hear initial appeals. These 3 judge panels often decide appeals from federal trial courts, but the loser CAN ask the full court in that circuit to rehear the case "en banc" (meaning the whole lot of them), but even those requests may be denied. Since only 1 percent of ALL cert requests are granted, it would be unusual indeed if the SCOTUS granted a cert request to appeal a decision of a 3 judge panel where en banc review was denied. But, it happens.

But, it still doesn't come down to one judge's ruling. There is no appellate process where one federal judge or SCOTUS justice decides the ultimate case. (Refer to my earlier post today about what a single Justice CAN do in very limited cases for very limited times, and none of these appear to fall within that category and if they did, it wouldn't matter but for a few days at most.)

Hi Dolfan,
I still go back to Dick Morris's point that is far better to have conservative Judges in charge of these states for Trump than not and this advantage wasnt the case before Friday.The manoevering was very timely and none of the real evidence has been put forward yet as its a process .No Obama appointed Judges are going to favour Trump under any circumstances.
I have no doubt that wide scale voter fraud is being used to rob Trump of the election.If their was nothing to hide the thief would show us whats in his bag and wouldnt be afraid of scrutiny.Can we get to see whats in his bag is the question,staff

What I'm going to describe is legal stuff, not my heart toward you. So, don't take this as correction, etc. Just information, please. With love.

It is a process, as you say.

But, when you're asking for emergency relief -- and all these cases fall in that category because of the timetables involved -- you have to make what is called a "proffer" of your evidence up front. You usually have to allege and aver it in the initial pleadings.

He can't sit on the evidence without saying up front what it is, and then wait for his day in court. The evidence, if it exists, should already have been described with some specificity. Without doing so, you fail to provide a basis in fact to support a claim for relief. This is especially true in cases, like these, requesting for what is called "extraordinary relief" (i.e., orders stopping vote counts, stopping certifications of vote counts, tossing out specific votes or types of votes, etc.). To this point, no one has made the public argument (nor in pleadings or motions so far as I can tell) that such evidence exists and is presentable in court.

What we have seen is some argument about the voting machine company, ease of hacking, ties to leftist politicians and some voter irregularities --- none of which taken individually or altogether add up to "these specific votes were fraudulent, illegal, etc.". I suspect fraud higher than the One World Trade Center, but I don't think they have the evidence and if they did it would have been put forth early in these filings.

What it appears to be is that the president had a loose confederation of lawyers and people sympathetic to him and no overarching legal strategy and --- worse --- no real legal theory or reason under the law why these votes are not legal votes. Without that, you cannot just scramble for facts to cobble together a strategy. Just being plainly honest, President Trump does not have a great track record on picking his legal teams for court battle. They're almost never particularly successful for him, and he tends to pick people whose actions make them appear a bit unhinged. (We can't use the impeachment case as an example of a good legal team because that is not really a legal case but a political one. Plus, the case against him was about as weak as Pres. Trump's cases in this election.)

Again: I believe the game was rigged from the get-go, but this must meet legal standards of proof and substantive law. For the life of me, I can't see anywhere close. So far, no judge has seen it either. It is a fighter in a mighty bad way who can't even land a jab.

The argument that "if there was nothing to hide" that Biden's campaign "would show us" is a non-starter. Biden doesn't have to prove anything. Trump is the one suing. Trump alone bears the full burden of proof. Trump has to prove that there is a bag, that there is something in the bag, what that something is, and that the something resulted in sufficient illegally cast or illegally counted votes to change the outcome of the election. That's the law.

Hi Dolfan.
I dont go with your analysis at all to be honest.
I think when it comes to evidence you have to bide your time if you have it.
The Thief in this case Biden(democrats) doesnt have to show us what he has stolen and put in his bag but the fact that they were hiding shows us that voter fraud was taking place.
God knows however whats in the bag ......and if he wants it revealed the law wont get in his way.
The arguement that no evidence has been put forward doesnt matter as Obama state judges are bought and paid for and would never come down on Trumps side no matter what evidence.Their is a better chance of CNN coming to help Trump than liberal Judges.
The Nuremburg trials had to pause its proceedings because one of the Nazi Lawyers put up an arguement that the Nazis were only following orders or the law.After a while the case got to continue when the Allied prosecutor said that "their is a law higher than the law" and that they broke that.
Their is a law giver higher than the law and the fact remains that anyone arguing that Donald Trump will eventually win are saying in essense "we think God is going to intervene with a miracle".They are saying that we have come to the edge of the Red Sea and the Eygptian Army is behind us and we think God is going to intervene and make away .They are saying that we are about to get hung tomoro on a gallows but that we think haman will actually die by his own construction and they are saying "did I not throw 3 men into that furnace but now I see 4 and the fourth looks like the Son Of God.
Whether they will be killed by the Eyptians ,get hung by the neck or burn in a fiery furnace is now up to God but as for me and mine we will not bow the knee to worship the King even if God doesnt take us out of the furnace ,staff

p.s They are also saying Lazarus is dead four days and his body is corrupted (smells) at this stage but Master if it your will raise this body from corruption

Why???

Where is the prophetic voice here?
Why do you trust in something that is false?
Cogntive Dissoance

"Bro and sisters.
There are many opinions about this current election in the USA. Im not into opinions or secular news.. I am believing that the TRUE prophetic words have said. I believe Prophet Kim Clement said President Trump will serve two terms.
You believe what you will. I will believe the Prophetic voices that are speaking.. Yes Pls test the spirits as the WORD teaches."

Matt 7:22-23

22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

I am beginning to believe that there are those who would rather trust in those who prophesy, even falsely, then trust what the bible teaches and warns us about AND will even twist that teaching in order to help themselves to that disorder

Why?

Kim Clement obviously got it wrong so why trust in his 'prophetic' word and not mark and avoid him? And others like him?

Why?

Hi Deadn,

Are their prophetic voices today? yes in my opinion

The Prophetic is for Edification, Exhortation, and Consolation .
How do you propose to edify,exhort or console without the prophetic?

Why did Kim Clement obviously get it wrong?
This election is not over yet unless their is some information I am missing?Their have been no court cases of any importance yet.It took 2yrs and 40million euro investigation by Mueller into Russian collusion yet everyone is yelling for evidence only 2weeks after the election.What hyporcrisy.

Many SI believers in my experience are so longing for persecution that they wont except the obvious that God put Trump as a barrier from evil to protect his Church at this time .I dont want persecution and Im pretty sure Paul rathered his two years in a house in Rome ministering in peace than persecution but if it comes it comes..staff

"The Prophetic is for Edification, Exhortation, and Consolation .
How do you propose to edify,exhort or console without the prophetic?
"

Too much emphasis on the prophetic. Why is the bible not enough to exhort, edify and rebuke? It is the pentecostal wing of the christian church who, indirectly say, the bible is not enough we need a 'fresh' word for today. This is how seduction of soul happens in the church.

Prophetic has become the substitute for scripture. Itching ears casuses this this yet see what Paul wrote to Timothy

2 Timothy 3:

14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it

15 and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work

And then another exhortation from Paul to Timothy to which I admonish you with the same. Using today's prophetic people, as they call themselves, will seduce you away.

2 Timothy 4

I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead [b]at His appearing and His kingdom:

2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;

4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

Hi Deadn,
This is the bible .Paul said Prophesy is to exhort,edify and console.Paul says that not me,this is the bible but you are saying Paul is wrong that Prophesy is not to be used to edify exhort and console.You cant replace Prophetic exhortation or edification or consolation because you dont like it.God uses the prophetic and the bible without the prophetic is just a dusty old book with words ,dry as dry can be .Your logic that people exhorting and edifying and consoling prophetic edification,consolation or exhorting is not in line with Pauls teaching on it,urs staff

1 Corinthians 14:3
New International Version

3 But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort

Staff-

There is prophecy in the sense of "forthtelling”- men like Tozer, Ravenhill, Hafner, etc then there is prophecy in the sense of "foretelling.”

The former should be sought after and delivered often; the latter should be exceedingly rare and I mean exceedingly.

TMK,
Jesus broke your rule then.Their is no rule in the bible prescribing that and its unbiblical in my opinion.
This isnt a question of whether SI Christians think False prophets are wrong ,its a case of SI Christians not believing in any Prophets,
Can you give me an example of a "proper" Foretelling on youtube?
urs staff

I did not say that foretelling may not happen. But I think true foretelling is exceedingly rare today.

Hi
Any examples that you think are acceptable true examplse of foretelling? staff

None that readily come to mind.

I’ll be honest though I don’t pay much attention to self proclaimed prophets.

Hi TMk,
Well their you go,you actually dont believe in anybody who prophesys whether their is no true or false.Which is your right and your biblical view.
I dont pay attention myself to anyone who gives themselves a gifting title like "Prophet" or "Apostle" they are usually bogus and the remainder dont really understand the harm in doing that.In fact I wont call my Pastor by the term Pastor as its clearly not scriptural to do so and causes a huge amount of harm to the church .I stupid is it to call someone by their gifting,urs staff

Hey all! It has been a long time since I participated in any discussions. I do have a couple of observations here that might add to the discussion.

First, all five ministry gifts to the body still operate. Apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, and teacher. Way too much New Testament scripture to argue that one in my opinion. But, we have a problem in the body in the form of social media. There was a time when a prophet might be known to a relatively limited part of the body of Christ. In that environment, there was submission and accountability because there was a close relationship with other leaders in that small part of the body.

Today, this is not the case so much. True prophets and so-called prophets can easily broadcast their message across the entire Earth at the speed of light. There is much less accountability and to a certain degree less relationship to provide for that accountability. It is easy to draw to oneself a group of people that will believe what a person says and support him no matter what. It is not, in my opinion, a healthy thing.

And yet, social media can be used in powerful ways to spread the gospel. It is a bit of a double-edged sword.

Prophet or no prophet, this I do know. This election was not simply about one party or another. It was the clearest battle of good vs. evil I have ever seen in my lifetime in this nation. I will be blunt. The democratic leadership structure is the most wicked and corrupt that I have ever seen. When the righteous rule a nation, things go well. But when the wicked are in charge, the nation suffers.

I guess this outcome will tell the tale of who prophesied the truth. I for one am praying diligently that any and every case of fraud is brought to light. I am praying for Godly leadership to be established in this nation. If I had thought I heard from God and was wrong, I would hope that I would be humble enough to admit it and seek God to find out why I was listening to my own flesh rather than to His Spirit.

Amen Travis.

Hi Twayneb

"True prophets and so-called prophets can easily broadcast their message across the entire Earth at the speed of light."

This is true but we can even more say this for Pastors who both can have a false position on the internet and have a false position in the local Church .
One of the greatest disfunctions even witchcraft to an extent of the Church is naming a person by their gift.
For instance Paul didnt call himself by his gift but rather he stated his gift and he also proved he was an Apostle.

"Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead), 2and all the brethren who are with me,"

I am still believing and praying to the measure I can that the cheating will be uncovered by the Lord and Donald Trump will remain in office ,We are in the Endzone and the Endzone is Gods zone,urs staff

Staff: I understand what you are saying. There is always a danger in gaining your identity from what God has called you to do rather than getting it from your walk with Him. I think the time is coming when the "titles" will be recognized by the fruit they bear rather than by the name on the business card. We will know a prophet, not because he proclaims it, but because he is proof of it.

Of course, there will always be a "church" that does not really know God where the same silliness will continue until Jesus comes.

First, all five ministry gifts to the body still operate. Apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, and teacher. Way too much New Testament scripture to argue that one in my opinion. But, we have a problem in the body in the form of social media.

All these gifts or ministries are given for the building of the Church.

1 Cor 12:28 - And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, and those with gifts of healing, helping, administration, and various tongues.

All the gifts are appointed in the context of the Church. The local Church of God is the body of Christ made of believers in a locality. Any gift operating outside the context of the Church is against this word and it is not from God.

In the New Testament, all ministries resulted in the building up of the body of Christ. Even Apollos who was a traveling preacher was brought to Paul to be placed in a Church and result in building the Church. But most people who prophesy on Social media are not even connected with any Church. They just prophesy to some unknown audience with whom they have no connection. How is such prophesy ending up in building the Church?

I know a Godly man who once told me not to read any spiritual books written by any man who has never built a Church or contributed to building one. I stick to that advice. It is a very good one.

I do not see how prophesying about the next president will result in building or even equipping the CHurch? I don't go after believing such things. The reason many believers are falling for such false ministries is, they have first ignored the local Church. Hence they go after those who are also not connected to any church.

In the new covenant, the purpose of prophecy is to edify and build the Church. How is someone edified by knowing the next president? All these are old covenant ministry which is not God's plan for the Church.

These are my thoughts. Generally, when we mention the local CHurch here, people get offended. Let God alone be true. When Christ comes we will know who ran in vein and who contributed to building the Church.

Hi Sree,
I disagree about prophesying of the next president not building up to the Church.Its very building up.
On the day of the election in 2016 it looked for all the world that a person that was going to do amazing harm to the Church,to Israel and lastly to the USA was going to be president and then amazingly it didnt happen.A person that backed ,Christians ,Israel,the nation state and was anti Abortion was elected.No doubt Trump was a god send and if these Prophets have prophesied correctly and miraclously he remains President then it will be very building to the Church and if he doesnt remain President then it will have the opposite effect.
The problem with the Church is clearly the unscriptural position Pastor has took in the modern Church .Its first Apostles then Prophets then Evangelists not Its first Pastors!Their is clearly a false authority issue here which could be known by another term.Apostolic doctrine needs to be restored to the Church which will happen I believe,urs staff

A very good contribution sreeram!
"Let God alone be true. When Christ comes we will know who ran in vein and who contributed to building the Church.."
Amen!

Hi Staff, without going into the deeper political discussion, what you are saying here sounds like a prayer to me. The church can pray for particular election results that will give freedom to the Church to worship the God they serve (1 Tim 2:2). The Church I am part of has done this in the past in a different country. But to prophesy about the election results is not fruitful to the building of the Church. That kind of prophecy is not even part of the New Covenant. During the time of Jesus and Paul, there were serious political conditions that were persecuting the Church. Yet we see no one prophesying about who will be ruling Rome etc. Even Herod who was persecuting the Church died during the acts of apostle time, yet no one in the Church is recorded prophesying about this death, etc.

Hi Sree,
If the prophesy is true and not false then of course the body is built up when we see how the Lord is faithful then of course its fruitful.What you are sayng is that the Lord cannot pick a leader in a democratic society or he cannot take sides or have his man that will do his bidding and I am saying of course he can and that he can communicate that.Its very clear who that is ,not that Trump is special in his own right ,he is special only because God has chosen him as a blocker.
As for prophesy about Politcal leaders the new Testament is full of prophesy about a coming world politcal leader called and named the Anti Christ and we know so much about him through Prophesy .
Indeed Herod is one of the great types of the Antichrist

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4\t

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

urs staff

Staff, I never said in democracy God cannot work. If it is so then why is Paul asking us to pray for the leaders? Democracy is clearly not God's plan or will. But God still controls everything including election results even though the process is not his perfect will.

The coming of AntiChrist is different from prophecy on Political leaders who will win an election! Paul wrote that prophesy to Thessalonians so that the Church will not be deceived about the events associated with the coming of Christ.

Hi Sree
I am not talking about whether democracy works or not.What I am saying is that God can pick political leaders and he can tell people about who he going to pick.
The Anti Christ is a coming political leader and so is a person who wins an election ,no difference and more than likely the Anti Christ will win a democratic election.We also know that the AntiChrist will be revealed and God can reveal other people too Good or Bad.

Paul gave a reason why he told them about the future(so they are not decieved) but that doesnt mean that God hasnt other reasons to tell people about the future.God can communicate by dreams or by visions or by words of wisdom and knowledge or by other ways and he can communicate anything he wants.He can communicate with the Church and he can communicate with unbelievers or future believers.We cannot limit him,urs staff

All the gifts are appointed in the context of the Church. The local Church of God is the body of Christ made of believers in a locality. Any gift operating outside the context of the Church is against this word and it is not from God.

Sreeram: I am not sure I can agree with you here. The church is not just the local body. The church is the entire body of Christ. I know men who are apostles, prophets, teachers, etc., and although they are plugged into a local body when they are at home, they travel quite a bit, ministering to the church at large.

I do agree that many men do not have any structure of accountability that comes from being plugged into and function ing in a local body.

I know a Godly man who once told me not to read any spiritual books written by any man who has never built a Church or contributed to building one. I stick to that advice. It is a very good one.

Solid and good advice. The gift is proven by the fruit.

The problem with the Church is clearly the unscriptural position Pastor has took in the modern Church .Its first Apostles then Prophets then Evangelists not Its first Pastors!Their is clearly a false authority issue here which could be known by another term.Apostolic doctrine needs to be restored to the Church which will happen I believe,urs staff

Staff: Not to try to get the thread off-topic, but it sounds a lot like the restoration of apostles and prophets. But the list in Eph. 4 is not meant to be a hierarchy of authority. It is simply a list of five ministry gifts to the body. If you put the foundation of apostles and prophets into its proper context you find that Paul is contrasting what was under the law with the new covenant and making the point that the foundation of the new covenant was laid by the OT prophets and established by the NT apostles. I think context is vitally important here as an entire denominational system has been built in Charismatic circles on this verse out of context.

I believe God has ordained these gifts to the body to interact with the body and with one another in submission to Him and in mutual submission to one another. Sort of a system of checks and balances in spiritual things. That is why Sreeram made a pretty good point about the accountability these gifts need by being in a local body. God does not give his roadmap to apostles and prophets for all others to follow. It is simply not in scripture. He does use apostles to establish and build, prophets to speak, teachers to teach, etc..

Hi Twayneb,
Their certainly is a hierarchy of the which gifts are the greater gifts and have more authority,their is no doubt about that otherwise Paul would not say I Paul an apostle.
The Apostolic is restored to full capacity in the end times and if the Church understood Pentecost more than ten percent then they would see how the Apostolic fits in.
The gifts do have a mutual submission because if the hand says I am a hand and I am more important than the toe and we dont need you toe then the body wont walk properly .
Paul an Apostle was not in one particular local body but had authority over many so the idea that God doesnt speak outside the local body is not correct.
Apostles are not lord it over types but the ultimate servants short of the service of Christ of course.But Pastors have in most Churches taken up a role that is outside of the bible and it is a form of wrong authority and is one of the biggest causes of disunity in the body.
All of the lists of the gifts are given in the context of the subject of unity and are given so that their would be unity in the body and that the gifts would function properly and in proper authority ,urs staff

Brother JOHN..
As a member of the BODY of Christ and a daughter of the KING. I remind u of HIS word.
1 Cor. 13---
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

I am free to believe what I do.. I believe the prophetic words. I have discernment.. There are pathetic words out these also.. GOD will show real and fake.. Thats called maturity and discernment.
Bless you.
In Christ
Sister
Frannie

As I read some of these posts I see that many here just want to critizize and debate.... Arent we all free to see HOW the LORD has allowed us to??
why do you want to be RIGHT.??.
Im so sorry for this. Perhaps this is why the church is just as messed up like the world.
Where is this contention from??
Are all here to help and encourage..?? I think Not...
Im so sorry to read some of these discussions. Perhaps its time for me to seek HIM about what He wants me to do.. I do not will not criticize anyone here GOD loves us all the same and there are no stepchildren here..
I pray you all are blessed with revelation of HIS word..
Perhaps this is why I am here to speak for those who believe in the Five fold ministry for today
I believe in the prophets 2 Chron 20:20 I stand on His word. I will not despise any prophecy
1 thess 5:20 Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
This is not unity and God is blessed with Unity.. Seeing the good being teachable.. Im not sure I see this here.. So sorry for anyone who i snot teachable and for anyone who thinks they have arrived and knows it all.. NOONE HAS A MARKET ON GOD. my bible says.
zech 4"6 Not by my might or power but by my Spirit.
There are people who have relationships with JESUS and Religious experiences with JESUS.. I want to learn more and more what He has for me.. Brother Blaine and I used to talk about this.. Perhaps this is why Im posting..
May You all be blessed
in Christ
A daughter of the KING.. who has not learned it all.

So what is the final take? Now that everything is over?

1. Are they false prophets because what they said did not come to pass?
2. Prophets who did not see clearly and made a minor mistake somewhere?

I would not call anyone true or false prophets, because I personally do not hear such people. I would call them people who have not entered the new covenant life. They themselves do not enter nor do they allow others to enter. Even their listeners are also kept under the old covenant. Such prophecies do not build the church but distract the Church from its primary purpose.

Luke 5:39 - And no one after drinking old wine wants new, for he says, ‘The old is better.’”

People who hear such old covenant prophecies will say that old is good and will not come to a powerful new covenant prophecy that will actually build them into a New Covenant life.

Quote by Zac Poonen :-
The main purpose of new-covenant prophecy is (1) to save God's people from their sins and (2) to build the church. This is what we must proclaim in all the meetings of our churches - because Jesus came for these two purposes: (1) to save His people from all sin (the first promise in the New Testament - Matt.1:21); and (2) to build His church (Matt.16:18).

Hi Sree,
1 Its not over until its over and this has not run its course.Lazarus was rotting ,Mordecai has a gallows ready for him,and Moses was stuck between a rock and a hard place standing at the red sea before God moved.In sporting terms we are in overtime which is the time God moves
2 The majority of Christians say they hear from God.
A few examples ,
Christians say "I was praying and I got drawn to this or that scripture"
Why should I listen to them ?
Why should I believe them?
Cant the God of all things reveal the future as well as drawing Christians to a scripture?
Every Sunday and the majority SI sermons are based preachers ,pastors and teachers who say things like "I was praying and I asked God what to speak on and he said this or pointed me to this."
Or how many times have we heard "I have a witness to this or that".

Why believe them if the Holy Spirit cant reveal things?

Again Prophesy is for the edification,exhortation and consolation of the Church (new testament)
How can prophesy(true prophesy not charlatans) detract from the primary purpose of the Church if its for edification,exhortation and consolation?

And lastly has God revealed to you that these people have "not entered the new covenant life" and if he has revealed it to you ,how did he do it by a dream,a word of wisdom or by a scripture or scriptures?and why should I believe you?(if the Holy Spirit doesnt reveal things).In the sense that you may have not seen clearly or made a minor mistake somewhere,
urs staff

Staff when would you consider it over?

If Biden is inaugurated and somehow impeached Trump would not become President again. Even if the DNP admitted now that they committed massive election fraud to elect Biden it is not clear Trump would still be President. There would likely have to be another election if that happened.

Hi TMK,
I still dont count it over even after Presidents Trumps speech a few minutes go about a transition to the next administration.Not because of Trump but because of God.
I want to see whether God will move .If its found out at any stage that their was fraud that caused Trump to lose the election like the voting machines etc then thats it Biden will be out no other election.
Lets wait and see until the 20th or maybe beyond and see will there be a miracle ,lets see will it rain for Noah ,will Lazarus be raised for Mary and Martha or will the Red Sea part.
Cant we wait for God?.
This isnt about the imperfect person Donald Trump but about the faithfulness of the Perfect person God our father.
If i may ask a question.
What happens if their is a massive miracle and God pulls it out for Trump?Wont that be a game changer for Christians in the US?Wont that trigger a celebration like we have not seen since VE day.
I want to see the glory of God and I can only see it if everyones efforts has failed except his .I want to Glorify Gods brilliance not Trumps brilliance.
The only thing that crosses my mind in the natural is are the military going to have their say.
urs staff

It is not over until GOD says...
Do we not walk by Faith and not sight..
Its not over until GOD says..
Timing is everything..
Im standing on what the True Prophets have said..
It is a shaking of the sheep and the goats.
GOD will see who will stand for righteousness or not.
In JESUS
A believer
Sister Frannie

Hi Sree,TMK
Even if the words of Prophets come to pass regarding the election and that the word of God is in their mouths we still need a massive clean up with the prophetic so that it wont be rejected by the rest of the Church because of crazy behaviour or other antics,urs staff

Hi Sister Frannie,
Im low today but Im rising in faith this evening and the intent of everyones hearts will be revealed and we will all be humbled including myself first of all.Like you said he is seperating the sheep in our lives from the goats in our lives but its a seperation to Holiness,
I refuse to believe God has had his say yet....,
Thanks for the post ,,,urs staff Im lifted more

Question to all:
Who here on SI doesn’t hear from the Lord directly (personally) ?