A much needed apology...

18Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy. 19He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea. 20Thou wilt perform the truth to Jacob, and the mercy to Abraham, which thou hast sworn unto our fathers from the days of old.Micah 7:18-20And to quote someone else:I think Krispy would be a great man to have in your corner in times of difficulty. I have no doubt he would give his life for you, but it's not always easy to keep out of the path of the swinging baseball bat.Like I have said to you privately, I love you and not only that, I like you. I am sorry for throwing balls at you. Youre a good guy and I count you as a brother.May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit,

Marina,You have been warned and this needs to be stated out here in the public as well. To come in here without the benefit of knowing the particulars of the situation, the off-site discussion, all that has gone on and to make these kinds of comments...This is a rebuke with all the restraint I can muster. How dare you come in here and add insult to injury, you have been brainwashed by this theology that has you in it's grip that you have espoused here before. I am asking and praying that you turn from it, it is the doctrine of demons, I plead with you, turn away!You must leave here and not come back until you recognize it, we will not have you spreading this poison here. Your account has been blocked. God help me and may He help you.

Hey Krispy. It ended right there. It has been a rather peculiar morning, a very deep time of prayer over many things, concerns over all the brethren that come here. The devil will not gain a foothold in this place, pitting one against another, absolutely not.I am sorry friend, haven't even had the time to read through all this prayerfully, but a cursory reading of your own willingness to reconcille, the Lord bless you brother. I have many other things I would like to say towards all this, but am pressed for time.Brother we share similar sentiments due to our own past expereinces in what we came out from under and have had my own dander raised over many of these same issues. Have come to learn a lot from the brethren here over the last two years, many who have traveled a bit further down this narrow road. That I hope to share what was gained out of it, much a matter of perspective, much in manner of presenting these things before this growing audience here. Again, prayerfully, more latter.As to the needed steps taken earlier here, there is some history that others may not be familar with, perhaps my good friend Jeremy could provide the links to some of that, it is a grevious theology that I must warn ahead of time that it would be unnecessary to give any heed to in response, but only to clarify the reasons for this abruptness here.Sorry Jeremy, not fair to do that, here is one that could be referenced: Prayers For Nick FlynnMay I exhort us all to prayer? Thank you brethren.

Krispyyou don't fool me, marine? coach? you're a teddy bear! would love to be near enough to give you big hug. God bless you. This was courageous and the action of a real man!

Quote:"This was courageous and the action of a real man!"Yes, this was wonderful to see and very refreshing. Way to step up bro!

It's finding the balance, ya know?The scroll we all need to eat.

Does this mean we'er not going dumpster diving???? :-(

I was just having fun with your comment. Believe it or not I have dumpster dived!A good many years ago. Your comment caused me to rember 27 plus years ago and in a moment of time I saw then and now and just how far the Lord has brought me. Trust me , it was a time for rejoicing!!!GLORY! But like you , I have a holy passion and also a great sense of humor and it's hard to convey that in writting. Anyway I didn't take your comments as a personal attack, I figured it was your humor coming through.

KrispyKrittr wrote:Pro 10:11 The mouth of a righteous man is a well of life: but violence covereth the mouth of the wicked."...I'm sure I discredited myself in the eyes of many people here... both those who contribute, and those who just come here and read. I also gave ammunition to anybody who loves to find dirt on believers. I discredited my message as well, and now there will be those who will not hear what I am saying because of this. I brought reproach on Greg and sermonindex as well. More importantly I brought reproach on the name of Christ.""If I don’t keep my eyes in Christ, then I find myself needing to win."God bless you brother for this apology! It was a blessing to me!I do not know what happened to cause you to extend this apology and, frankly, I don't care.I just know that tears filled my eyes as I read your message because it reminded me of my own "struggles". I have been there myself, so MANY times...I praise the Lord for giving you the courage, humility and grace to post this message and I thank Him for allowing me to read it.Thank you for letting your heart be exposed to every one in this forum... I know you were being lead by the Holy Spirit.Isn't this just typical of God?! He doesn't just take care of the parties involved... His mercy reaches even to those of us who have no clue of what's going on!!! this just reminds me of what I keep saying to myself... Obey the Lord. (period) and here's the kicker... you never know when your obedience will cause someone, who may be watching from afar, to praise the Lord!Thank you Father!I praise you Holy Spirit! My soul magnifies you Jesus!

I still luv ya. You should see the mistakes I make....in my life. I enjoy what I read, of what you write. I have always felt you have much quality to say here, please don,t leave us.You have appologised.The Lord bless you and give you peace and heal the pain. even pain caused by self. Amen.ellie

But I need to beg the forgiveness of every single person on this forum... I thought I would just draw attention to the inner workings of this post. It is entitled 'a much needed apology' and in our modern Christian use this would be all that was needed. However, an apology is not sufficient for true reconciliation. (wait a while before you protest ;-) ) An apology may suffice in getting the thing 'off your chest' but although you may feel great what happens to the offended person? The apologist has done his bit and is free, what about the offended one?Let me cut to the chase. I would recommend that we not only 'give' an apology but that we do what Krisyp did here 'we ask for forgiveness'. Asking for forgiveness means the offended one is genuinely included in the reconciliatin process. It is not enough for someone to feel good because they have got the 'thing off their chest'; the purpose of forgiveness is not in freeing the offender from conscious guilt but is the opening of a dialogue in which a response is required from the offended one; it is the first step towards reconciliation.It is too easily forgotten that “Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” (Matt. 18:18-20, KJV) has to do with forgiveness. There is a measure in which it is forgiveness that releases not the apology. Paul undestood this well; “So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow. Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.” (2Cor. 2:7-8, KJVS) He is not asking here that the 'apology' be accepted but that the offender be enthusiastically forgiven in a way that the offender recognises. Note the sequence, forgive, encourage and as the NKJV has it 're-affirm' your love toward him.If you don't understand what I am getting at, the next time you sin against someone don't give an apology, ask for forgiveness. This will not only release you from your conscious guilt but it will release the sinned-against from their sense of injustice. And if you are the sinned-against be sure that you follow Paul's counsel to the church in Corinth. This is not reluctant tolerance but enthusiastic reconciliation.

Ron wrote...the purpose of forgiveness is not in freeing the offender from conscious guilt but is the opening of a dialogue in which a response is required from the offended one; it is the first step towards reconciliation.Great conversation! So often it seems that a dialogue never opens up and somehow the conversation becomes one sided or 'short' sided. Is it OK for the offended party to ask some questions in this process; not making the answer to the question a criteria for forgiveness, but for the sake of helping the offended person come to terms with what happened by getting some much needed answers?

Is it OK for the offended party to ask some questions in this process; not making the answer to the question a criteria for forgiveness, but for the sake of helping the offended person come to terms with what happened by getting some much needed answers?Yes, I think it is. However the offender must understand that in asking for forgivness he is assuming 100% responsibility for the offence. There are no 'mitigating circumstances' in a request for forgiveness. It is a guilty man asking for mercy, not a confused one asking for understanding.

Rom 15: 1-2-3NKJV – We then who are strong ought to bear with the scruples of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Let each of us please his neighbor for his good, leading to EDIFICATION. For even Christ did not please Himself; but as it is written, “The reproaches of those who reproached You fell on Me”NIV--1We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves. Each of us should please his neighbor for his good, TO BUILD HIM UP. For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: "The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me.New American Standard --Now we who are strong ought to bear the weaknesses of those without strength and not just please ourselves. Each of us is to please his neighbor for his good, to his EDIFICATION. For even Christ did not please Himself; but as it is written,”THE REPROACHES OF THOSE WHO REPROACHED YOU FELL ON ME." New Living Translation --1We may know that these things make no difference, but we cannot just go ahead and do them to please ourselves. We must be considerate of the doubts and fears of those who think these things are wrong. We should please others. If we do what helps them, WE WILL BUILD THEM UP IN THE LORD. For even Christ didn't please himself. As the Scriptures say, "Those who insult you are also insulting me.KJV--We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to EDIFICATION. For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me. Contemporary English Version-- If our faith is strong, we should be patient with the Lord's followers whose faith is weak. We should try to please them instead of ourselves. We should think of their good and try to help them by doing what pleases them. Even Christ did not try to please himself. But as the Scriptures say, "The people who insulted you also insulted me." American Standard Verson - Now we that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Let each one of us please his neighbor for that which is good, unto EDIFYING. For Christ also pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell upon me. AMPLIFIELD-- WE WHO are strong [in our convictions and of robust faith] ought to bear with the failings and the frailties and the tender scruples of the weak; [we ought to help carry the doubts and qualms of others] and not to please ourselves. Let each one of us make it a practice to please (make happy) his neighbor for his good and for his true welfare, to edify him [to strengthen him and build him up spiritually]. For Christ did not please Himself [gave no thought to His own interests]; but, as it is written, The reproaches and abuses of those who reproached and abused you fell on Me.

Krispy,Semper Fi!"godly sorrow worketh repentance"Looks like you fulfilled that verse. I wish more of us did. James 2:[2] My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;[3] Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

that we, through patience and comfort of the Scriptures, might have hope; Amen…the Scriptures are not only written for our present instruction, but for the ingenerating, encouraging, and establishing, an hope of eternal Life in another world; which they are the means of, under the influence of divine grace; since they give us a clear account of eternal life; of the promise of it in Christ; of its being procured by him, and secured in him; of the means of enjoying it, through his blood and righteousness; of the declarations of God's free grace and mercy to sinners, and of the various instances of persons who have been made partakers of it; all which encourage to hope in the Lord, and to rejoice in hope of the glory of God; believing we also may have and enjoy the thing hoped for, "through patience and comfort of the Scriptures"; both which are encouraged thereby: the "patience of the Scriptures" is not a stoical apathy, a stupid indolence; and is of a different kind from that patience the writings of the Heathen philosophers define and recommend: the Scripture gives an account of the true nature of patience, in bearing all sorts of evils for Christ's sake; of the excellency and usefulness of it; and do strongly exhort unto it upon the best principles, and with the best motives; and are full of promises to the exercise of it, and furnish out the best examples of suffering affliction, and patience: "the comfort of the Scriptures" is such as is not to be met with elsewhere. These writings abound with exceeding great and precious promises, and excellent doctrines, big with consolation to the saints; and both serve much to cherish, support, and maintain an hope of eternal happiness; all which prove the divine authority, excellency, and usefulness of the sacred writings, and recommend the reading of them by us, and the hearing of them explained by others. Studing/Reading my Bible and in due time the Lord will REVEAL.Gill's Exposition of the Bible

RE:Quote [2] My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; [3] Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.How true in my life but I would put it differently for me...1)Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.... I have had through the years patience and God has helped me to have more, when having experienced the following sometimes......2)My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers. temptations;Thankfully I havent done too much falling but have had, much reason to, in the past 15 long years. But with Gods help I have resisted thankfully, from falling into deep holes.Oh! how God has brought me through, so many trials. and taught me many things, but the learning never ends............And temptation pops up from time to time.Thankyou Your Thread is an encouragement to me.... Isn't God so good to us.ellieAll fall short of the Glory of God. Publicly or privatly.

Phil wroteI would recommend that we not only 'give' an apology but that we do what Krisyp did here 'we ask for forgiveness'. Asking for forgiveness means the offended one is genuinely included in the reconciliatin process. It is not enough for someone to feel good because they have got the 'thing off their chest'; the purpose of forgiveness is not in freeing the offender from conscious guilt but is the opening of a dialogue in which a response is required from the offended one; it is the first step towards reconciliation.Since we are on the subject of reconciliation, may I also add some thoughts. Im not refering to Kris's earlier remarks for which he has apologised. Im talking about something much much more sinister than just talking and injuring with words (not to make light of that either). In this dark dark world where groups of people have commited atrocities towards another, a true reconciliation cannot be had with a mere apology. Even a regret is not enough. What is required is a deep REMORSE. The difference between a remorse and a regret/apology is that the wrongdoer admits RESPONSIBILITY for his/her actions. And it does not stop there. It comes with recompense and a turning away from all similiar wrong doing now and in the future. If you look around in the world (Im not going to mention names of countries), you will find that those who are still bickering about the past has not gone through this process properly. There are no steps to be missed.May I add that we too, need this kind of approach to our everyday life.

What is required is a deep REMORSE. The difference between a remorse and a regret/apology is that the wrongdoer admits RESPONSIBILITY for his/her actions. I think the word perhaps should be 'repentance' rather than 'remorse'. 'remorse' means wishing it hadn't happened. Judas, showed remorse... just before he hanged himself.I am not sure that 'groups of people' can be reconciled. I think it is a highly personal thing.

Phil is right. The word REPENTANCE is a better word for remorse. But what is key is the admission of responsibility. And that admission is not a mere glossing over but a clear message to say - this is what ACTUALLY happened, its my/our fault and it will never happen again. There is a reconciliation on a personal level and another on a much larger level. If you think of the war atrocities commited to some Asian countries by the Japanese, for instance...or the Naxis to the Jews during WWII... A Christian's remorse is always followed by hope. Thats the difference between the so-called "remorse" felt by Judas, and that felt by Peter.