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Taking Covid vaccine as a Christian.

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Tomo07

Hello brothers and sisters, blessings to you all.

Just wanted to share some thoughts about vaccines and see if anyone has advice or knows anything.

I have heard from several reputable sources that some vaccines currently under development and testing have an ingredient derived from blood of aborted fetuses.

This disgusts me, and I would not feel comfortable injecting this into me if true, also in doing this I would be encouraging and supporting abortion.

This is a genuine concern of mine, and I don't know what to do. It's a rabbit warren and starts getting into conspiracy theories if you dig enough, some say it's already used in many commercially produced food products as a "flavor enhancer"
However alot of conspiracy theories are based on some truth..
Well my concerns the vaccines at this point, we live in a fallen, disgusting, ungodly world and nothing surprises me anymore.
I cannot just dismiss this and feel I need to find out more as a Christian rather than just stick my head in the sand or shrugging my shoulders, any thoughts/advice and the like welcomed.

Some of the many articles,

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-28/oxford-coronavirus-vaccine-ethical-religious-foetal-cell/12592800

https://bioethics.georgetown.edu/2017/01/is-it-true-that-there-are-vaccines-produced-using-aborted-fetuses/

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TMK

The article indicates the lines used were from 40 odd years ago. They are not using lines from newly aborted fetuses so one cannot argue that the vaccines will encourage abortion. The same lines are used for other vaccines currently in use.

So one must decide whether the use of these 40-50 year old lines is an issue.

The article said it was a legal abortion (an oxymoron I realize)in Norway. I take this to mean she did not have the abortion for the purpose of assisting in vaccine research. That may or may not make a difference in one’s thinking.

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Mustacheglasses

I will certainly not be taking the vaccine. I mistrust our government and the medical and pharmaceutical industries.

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savannah

I also will be socially distancing myself from anyone administering the vaccine.

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Lysa


This woman will not be taking the vaccine either.

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sermonindex

Saints,

I strongly encourage all believers to not take the vacinne. I will post a more indepth article of my opinion why soon on social media and on the forums here. Glad to see this post.

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havok20x

There are a couple of things that I think about when considering these issues:

1) Although the aborted cells use a line that is quite old, I do not feel I can in good conscience justify the use of a vaccine that is derived from those cells. There are other ways to produce a vaccine without using something that derived from an evil practice.

2) Let’s say this was a flu vaccine: The immunity may last for a very short time. I wouldn’t get a flu vaccine that lasted for less than several years. In fact, I never get the flu vaccine for that very reason: it lasts 1 year only. That being said, Moderna released a figure that estimated the immunity to last for approximately 3 months. It might last longer but maybe not. That level of immunity is the same as getting COVID. Frankly, I don’t think it is worth it.

3) I have actually already had COVID. I lost my sense of smell and it has returned, although not as strong. However, I don’t live my life worrying about what I am going to die from. I trust the Lord. As I continue to prepare to permanently head to the mission field, there will be a lot of diseases that I could get””some of which are relatively unknown or incurable. Perhaps I will get them, or perhaps I won’t. I can’t control those things, so I will trust the Lord that he’ll take care of me. So, if they came out with a vaccine for Ebola, would I get it? Not immediately. I am going to evaluate the risks and benefits. I cannot do that with this vaccine because it is so new.

Anyhow, those are just some of the things I think about. Ultimately, a lot of it has to do with the fact that I am not willing to subjugate myself to anyone or anything that perpetuates and ideology that is based on lies, fear, or control. I feel like all of this falls in that category. I don’t wear a mask, I don’t social distance, and I don’t plan to get the vaccine. Why? Because I don’t believe the foundational principles of those who want to lock me in my home.

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Sree

1 Cor 10:25 - Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience,


I quote the above scripture to those who believe in conspiracy theories about how the Vaccines are made. To be fank we cannot get a clear picture of how these vaccines are made. For that matter even how any medicines are made.

I have fellowship with those who do not adminster any vaccine to their children but I do, I do not judge them nor do I expect them to judge me. To me if this vaccine helps me to play my part in eradicating a disease then it is for good. As a Christian we should all do our part to make sure the people around us are healthy. We should do whatever it takes to help erradicate harmful diseases, instead of hearing wrothless consipracy theories.

Mordern day medicines are also given by God to help us stay healthy. They are God-given healing mechanism. I believe it is stupidity to expect God to miraculously heal us when he has already given us medicines. By faith we can take any medicine that is administered by doctors to heal our discease.

Having said this, I will consider the Covid vaccine after seeing the results over a period of time. The fact that these vaccines are produced in such a short time concerns me. Also the fact that COvid 19 is a form of Common Cold virus, tells me that vaccines will not be effective long term.

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ginnyrose

Me neither. But then my husband and I both had covid19, and we survived it quite well, thank-you! I suspect having had the covid19 will boost immunity better then any vaccine. In any case I still would not get the vaccine - we don't get the flu shot either.

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dolfan

1. Every believer has to use their God-given judgment on taking the vaccine. I'm leaning "no".

2. Aborted-baby tissue cells that were used to cultivate vaccines are only used in a very select few vaccine types, but common ones. Varicella, Hep A, Rubella and rabies. There may be a few others.

The new COVID vaccine works entirely differently and -- at least as far as I understand -- doesn't use any of the lines of cultures from those aborted babies By the way, there is no long line of labs using new fetal tissue this way; the existing cell lines are from two aborted babies in the 1960s. It is no less reprehensible that this happened, but do not avoid COVID vaccines for this reason. There are other good reasons to consider avoiding it besides this one.

3. I don't trust the new vaccines for one simple reason: there are almost no vaccines that require multiple dosing over a short period of time that do not virtually guarantee lifelong immunity. This vaccine is rushed, there are too many unanswered questions, and there's no way to know within reason that the benefits substantially outweigh the risks. I certainly don't trust the government to tell us the truth, and never expect a business to speak against their own financial interests.

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followthelamb

Even if these vaccines were not related in any way to any aborted fetal cell lines, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are the first that will introduce synthetic mRNA (synthetic genetic material) into the human body.

[edited again to clarify.]

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TMK

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/why-are-mrna-vaccines-so-exciting-2020121021599

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deogloria

We are now in a very critical time in human history.
My short answer: Choose this day what you want to believe...
I won't comment further

Blessings and stay safe !

Markus

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Tomo07

Well some good feedback here on a needed topic to discuss.
I would be leading towards not taking the shot, however my worry is that it will be forced on us, not necessarily by government or being compulsory, but through liberties being taken away through not having it. Flying, work, education ect ect...

I am of the firm belief this is a test run, a for runner to the inevitable "Mark" and that there are hidden agendas and spiritual things at play currently. Praise God hy life and future are in Him.


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TMK

Was there a spiritual agenda when smallpox was eradicated by vaccine? I have a smallpox vaccine scar on my right arm as does everyone of my generation.

Covid is a virus; so was smallpox. Why is the Covid vaccine from the pit of hell and the smallpox vaccine was not?

What about polio? Was that vaccine taken by millions to eradicate a horrible virus of the devil as well? If not, why?

If it wasn’t for the nasty political climate in this country the vaccine would be a no-brainer.

The same things going on in society now - lockdowns, closures, recommendations against families getting together for holidays”” all took place during the Spanish flu epidemic a hundred years ago. Read your history.

Y’all need to calm down a tad.

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TMK

" Principles for Christian thinking in context of COVID vaccines”
Posted Wednesday, December 16, 2020 10:38 am
By ALBERT MOHLER, President, Southern Baptist Theological Seminary

https://albertmohler.com/2020/12/14/vaccines-and-the-christian-worldview-principles-for-christian-thinking-in-the-context-of-covid

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drifter

If a person can't see this virus is being used by political elites to implement an evil agenda, it's because you don't want to see it. All the data points to this virus being nothing more than a bad flu year. The Covid death rates are being grossly inflated, as are the positive tests (many, many false positives). I don't need to calm down at all. I've sought to think rationally and make informed decisions throughout this crisis. And I have made the decision to not take this vaccine, no matter what the cost is to me.

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SteveHale

TMK wrote - (The same things going on in society now - lockdowns, closures, recommendations against families getting together for holidays”” all took place during the Spanish flu epidemic a hundred years ago. Read your history).

The Spanish flu and Covid-19 can not be compared! The Spanish flu killed at least fifty million people, on top of that the population of the world was one quarter the population of today. Making the equivalent of two hundred million people dying today! Not even close!

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TMK

My point is that people think Covid recommendations today are novel and unnecessary. They are not novel. All this has happened before.

Do you not think if they were able to develop a Spanish Flu vaccine that it would have been welcomed with open arms? Perhaps the millions and millions would not have died.

I have no doubt that Covid death numbers are inflated but many have died.

Unfortunately the response to Covid was politicized and now it is being religion-ized mainly because most evangelicals vote a certain way. Nothing wrong with that- I vote the same way.

But to suggest the vaccine is the devil from hell is a bit much.

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Sree


I have no doubt that Covid death numbers are inflated but many have died.

Unfortunately the response to Covid was politicized and now it is being religion-ized mainly because most evangelicals vote a certain way. Nothing wrong with that- I vote the same way.

But to suggest the vaccine is the devil from hell is a bit much.

I agree with you here Todd. It is true that this virus has been politicalized and also certain companies are making money out of it. Still, there is enough death caused by the Virus to believe that it is a lot more than the normal flu.

I personally know young people with no preexisting condition who dropped dead immediately after recovering from the virus. It causes internal organ failures that are visible after recovery.

I am not personally paranoid by covid nor am I dumb enough to believe the whole thing is a conspiracy.

Yes, Vaccines have saved the human race from so many dangerous viruses. I have personally seen people born with polio, today it is eradicated because of vaccines. Even if you have not taken it there are people around you who have taken the vaccine to protect you. Vaccines are God-given healing for humans. So seeing them as evil is foolish.

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drifter

I believe it was Jane Fonda who said Covid 19 is "God's gift to the left."

I don't think anyone is stupid to believe people in high places are using coronavirus to implement a godless agenda.
Bill Gates is on record saying vaccines can be used to lower world population. His father was a well known eugenicist. Many powerful people want to drastically reduce world population. Prince Philip said "In the event that I am reincarnated, I would like to return as a deadly virus, to contribute something to solving overpopulation." Ted Turner wants to reduce the world population to less than 2 billion. Many, many other examples could be given.

These same people are using this virus to crush the world economy to implement the "Great Reset". They are very open about their plans for a one world government.

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Tomo07

Supposed I dont take it? Why would those that have the vaccine be so opposed to this, sure you've the vaccine, whats the problem.
I Just feel it's been rushed through, not enough time to test for side effects especially long term, and now creators are singing waivers covering themselves of any liability of long term effects.

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brothagary

so no more missionary work for any one , none of us will be able to travel to fulfill the great commission ,

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brothagary

those that believe will drink any deadly thing and shall not be harmed ........

17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not harm them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will be made well. 19After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God.…

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narrowpath

I agree with Todd and Sreeram.


Taking vaccination is not yet the mark of the beast, but it will have similarities: Some places make it mandatory and impose restrictions on those who do not take it, there will be worldwide deployment and you cannot avoid be confronted with the question whether to take it or not.
I see it as a dress rehearsal for what is yet to come.
I would not mind taking the vaccine if I know it helps to save lifes.

Perhaps Corona is the first apocalyptic Rider from Rev 6:2

And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.


Look up the verse in Latin or Spanish and you find the word "corona"

Corona conquered the world, no nation is exempt, time will tell if this is it or something else yet to come.

Let us use the Corona Lockdown to draw closer to God and immerse ourselves into His word.

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drifter

Gary, you must act in accordance with your understanding of God's will and His word. I am not condemning anyone for taking the vaccine; I am strongly cautioning anyone against taking it.

Very soon no one will be able to travel anywhere without the mark of the beast. Whether that's an implantable microchip or a quantum dot tattoo (or something else) remains to be seen.

I'm sure God's work will go ahead no matter the restrictions placed upon God's people. Another thread on this forum has an article about Chinese pastors that have gone into hiding; they have discarded their cell phones and trackable ID cards. May I suggest we are very close to living in that kind of dictatorship.

God bless brother.

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brothagary

Amen drifter, I'm anti-vax, anti doctors, so it more of a rhetorical question.
I can't remember the bible saying I won't be able to travel unless I have the mark of the beast.

There will be quite a few Christians
traveling in the last days to the holy city to listen to the two prophets and wanting to be at the mt of olives at the lords return .

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drifter

In Revelation it says no man can buy or sell without the mark so I assume that would also mean plane tickets :)

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savannah


"Very soon no one will be able to travel anywhere without the mark of the beast...Chinese pastors that have gone into hiding; they have discarded their cell phones and trackable ID cards. May I suggest we are very close to living in that kind of dictatorship."

_______________________

You say, "Very soon...very close";

ok...when this doesn't happen(and it won't)will you repent of your fake report! No! You'll go on to the next extremity and build on that.

___________________

You also speak of the "Great Reset" and 'one world government'. When these don't take place you'll move on like all the rest.

DON'T BELIEVE THE FAKE HYPOTHETICAL REPORT!

BELIEVE THE BIBLE! AND BELIEVE IT IN ITS HISTORICAL CONTEXT, NOT IN THE SPECULATIVE INTERPRETATION!

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drifter

"Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, 'Where is the promise of his coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation'." 2 Peter 3:3,4

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deogloria

Thank you Nigel for your very important posts !Stay strong and fix your eyes on Jesus and trust Him - (Prov 3v5)

I'm learning a lot here...when the time comes to make very important decisions, I might loose many christian friends. There is just nothing new under the sun...

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brothagary

Know need to get mean, Nigal could be right about travel, the context for me has always been by sell, trade, food extra. Rather than the mark of the beast having any effect over evangelism in the last hours before Christ's return. Knowing this that the mark its self is instituted by the man of sin himself, in the seven year tribulation period. The gospel would have made to nearly every tribe people and young by the time the son of perdition sits in the temple. So the time of traveling to other places to preach the gospel may be full filled, hence the time gentiles are over, god looks back to Jacob in his time of trouble to refine the remnant
of the Jewish people, and so all of Israel will be saved.

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brothagary

Savana, Wake up, it's already here the communists are in every country seizing power in shadows as we speak .

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savannah

God brought me from death to life, from darkness to light, years ago. I haven't slept since.

Wicked men and imposters have been around since Timothy wrote these words so long ago;

"But wicked men and imposters shall become worse and worse, deceiving others and being deceived themselves." 2 Timothy 3:13

Just because you are only seeing it now, doesn't mean it hasn't been here. They've been getting worse and worse just as Timothy said. There have been numerous men who have been monsters, and who did unspeakable evil. They were beasts rather than men.

So, I say to you what the angel said to John in the 1st century;

"Do not seal up the words of prophecy in this book, because the time is near. Let the unrighteous continue to be unrighteous, and the vile continue to be vile; let the righteous continue to practice righteousness, and the holy continue to be holy.”
Revelation 22:10,11

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brothagary

what r u trying to argue about then

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savannah

No argument! You told me to wake up! I'm just letting you know that I never fell asleep, that I'm wide awake.

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brothagary

Have you not heard the world economic forum
and European union literal using the term great reset, and promoting Marxist propaganda, he's not making this stuff.

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brothagary

Not even another 4 years of Trump and eight years of pence will stop what coming upon America

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savannah

Sure! I've heard those buzz words and many more. I remain unphased. I say with Shad...Mesh...and Aben that God is able...and even if He doesn't...Worship God. Because Jesus said not to fear those who can kill the body and then can't do anything else. He said to,"Fear Him!"

Alleluia Thine the Glory,

...Alleluia...Amen.

What y'all need is an Elisha experience...😮

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brothagary

huhh ?

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Tomo07

Could be interesting, I know John Piper has a video out also. Will watch this one tomorrow.

Should we take the vaccine - John MacArthur.

https://youtu.be/jrvrdBukIII

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sermonindex

Hi dear saints!

Has anyone here received the Pfizer or Moderna covid vaccine yet? First or second dose? Or do you know anyone that has?

A few of our relatives and friends have (health care professionals).

One cousin of my wife’s just received their second dose (a nurse).

Anyway, I found this video quite balanced and interesting.

https://youtu.be/UQvaQFdGLn8

Has anyone else seen this video yet?

What troubles me the most at this point would be a "mandate” by the government to require (any) vaccines.

I’m not hyper anti-vaxx. I’ve been vaccinated throughout my life too.

That said, I want to be sensitive to what elders in the church are saying (cautioning), and of course remain prayerful and seeking to abide in the Spirit on this, and all matters.

Love you all!!

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TMK

My brother who is an ER nurse got his first and is to get second in a couple of days. No issues from first. My mom and dad who are in late 70s got their first in FL a couple of days ago. No issues.

I will be getting it but things seem to be pretty slow here in NC. Only 75 and over right now and supply is limited. I don’t expect to be eligible until spring.

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Kerygma1975

I am not concerned. Anyone who has travelled a lot has had many vaccinations. I think MacArthur spoke on this as well. I will be taking it as soon as its available so I can get back into the hospitals and minister to those of the congregation I under shepherd. I would however be very slow to tell anyone Not to take it OR take it. Pray about it, seek professional health advise, not from people on a forum.

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dolfan

Know someone on my family who took the Moderna. No problems. A little soreness and swelling in the injection site a few days after round 1 but otherwise nothing.

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drifter

Here is 1 person with serious side effects from the Moderna vaccine (I'm sure the "fact checkers" are rushing to "debunk" this).

https://newtube.app/TonyHeller/rES9LrL

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InTheLight

My wife works at a local hospital and received the first shot of the Pfizer vaccine a few weeks ago, she has not reported any issues.

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deogloria

First we can look at humanity from scripture. I have already quoted Gen.6 Then we can look at history, just the last 20 years should be enough to give us an idea about the world we live in. Wars, lies, abortions etc.
Does anyone know how many people are starving to death daily? To save them wouldn't need warp speed technology and super intelligent humans.
Now even Christians seem to believe that suddenly humanity has changed and end time will be good. Good people now have a good plan to save us. But they have to force it on us, for the common good. I must have a different Bible that doesn't say such a thing. . .
My Bible also tells me that my God and Father has created me. I don't want anyone to put some new "software" into my body and telling me that the body will then work better, better then what my God has created. If once I'm injected with the stuff it can't be reversed anymore.
(I'm thankful for Hospitals and a lot of the modern stuff - that's not the point, if you think I'm not, then you didn't get it)

As I said before: choose this day what you want to believe.
I don't want to discuss it further for now. Quite emotional to see what's going on in the world and in the churches today
Seek the Lord ! Blessings

Markus
edited and simplified some comments.

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TMK

Just to clarify Markus is suggesting that the Covid vaccine somehow changes human DNA. Not true in the least.

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Kerygma1975

TMK,

Agree - it in no way changes human DNA the way Markus is implying. Conspiracy theories are some reasons the Christian witness is suffering.

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deogloria

Simple Servant
I edited my post several days ago, you obviously didn't read it.
Here are some news from Norway:
"The Norwegian Medicines Agency on Thursday (NZT Friday)reported a total of 29 people had suffered side effects, 13 of them fatal. All the deaths occurred among patients in nursing homes and all were over the age of 80." (AP)
Edit:
Update about the situation in Norway - Bloomberg
Norwegian Medicines Agency -
"There are 13 deaths that have been assessed, and we are aware of another 16 deaths that are currently being assessed,” the agency said.

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drifter

I believe vaccine passports will in all likelihood become mandatory, sooner or later. Without one, no one will be able to travel or hold a job. This is foreshadowing and conditioning to what is coming.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIKWhp2_eyM&ab_channel=CNBC

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Kerygma1975

"Simple Servant
I edited my post several days ago, you obviously didn't read it.
Here are some news from Norway:
"The Norwegian Medicines Agency on Thursday (NZT Friday)reported a total of 29 people had suffered side effects, 13 of them fatal. All the deaths occurred among patients in nursing homes and all were over the age of 80." (AP)
Edit:
Update about the situation in Norway - Bloomberg
Norwegian Medicines Agency -
"There are 13 deaths that have been assessed, and we are aware of another 16 deaths that are currently being assessed,” the agency said."


Yes, I read your posts. I do not agree with you, nor do I simply read some articles and make large statements. There are adverse reactions to all sorts of vaccines, even the flu shot.

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ccchhhrrriiisss

I know several people who have been vaccinated for COVID-19. So far, none of them have any notable side effects.

By the way, I participated in an online focus group several months ago. It turns out that it was focused on the topic of vaccination distribution.

I was surprised at the bipolar nature that people took. Some of the people were adamantly pro-vaccine and others were adamantly anti-vaccine. As these groups shared their views, there was a sharp rift in the discussion.

The pro-vaccine people even stated that they would not allow their children to play with children who don't have vaccinations. They claimed that it was a "danger" for their own children.

I was puzzled.

I explained that vaccinations actually PROTECT those who are vaccinated from the diseases and contagions of those who are not. So, if anything, the children with vaccinations are largely protected from the diseases of which the non-vaccinated children might carry.

I pointed out that vaccine effectiveness is usually in the 95-99% range -- meaning that very few of those who are vaccinated are in danger of the disease or contagion that they are vaccinated from. There is also a "herd immunity" that comes from societies that are largely vaccinated.

This herd immunity means that people who are not vaccinated (or the tiny fraction of people for which the vaccination is not effective) enjoy a form of herd immunity protection. This is because the widespread vaccination eliminates and greatly impedes the ability to carry and transmit the virus/disease.

This is understood via the polio vaccine. If you take two doses of the commonly available polio vaccine, it has a 90% effectiveness. However, a third dose lifts the vaccine effectiveness between 99-100%. Most people now have four doses of this particular course of vaccinations.

However, there is a subset of people who stopped their vaccinations at one or two doses. Yet, the last recorded infection of polio in the U.S. (from the U.S.) was in 1979. The last time polio was brought into the U.S. from a foreign country was 1993.

This is a stark contrast from the 1940s where more than 35,000 children per year were afflicted with polio. The advent of the polio vaccinations -- the original trivalent inactivated poliovirus vaccine (IPV) in 1955 and the trivalent oral poliovirus vaccine (OPV) in 1963 -- effectively ended polio in the U.S. within a short time period. There were less than 100 recorded polio cases in the U.S. during the 1960s and less than 10 during the 1970s.

I completely understand the concerns about vaccinations. However, vaccinations (in general) aren't part of any sort of widespread conspiracy. There are people who believe that vaccines cause damage or even disease in children.

Such individuals often point to the rise of autism or other conditions. However, other nations using those same vaccines (most are designed and manufactured in the U.S.) don't see the same autism rate increases. Thus, with "all things being equal," we can largely rule out vaccinations alone as the cause of any sort of spike in rates of autism.

Obviously, vaccinations carry a calculated risk. The same is true of aspirin, ibuprofen, acetaminophen/paracetamol or any medication. However, the benefits of vaccinations are undeniable.

While only two diseases have been considered entirely eradicated by vaccinations (smallpox and rinderpest), there are lists of diseases that have nearly been largely eradicated once vaccinations became widely available. Diseases like polio, diphtheria, mumps, rotavirus, measles, whooping cough, Hib, rubella, hepatitis A/B and tetanus are extremely rare due to the advent of their respective vaccines.

So, what should the Christian position be?

My biggest issue with both pro-vaccine and anti-vaccine people is that there are some who take a dogmatic "must accept" stand on vaccines. For some, you would assume that there was a clear passage in the Scriptures about vaccinations. The fact is that there is not a single passage in Scripture that clearly covers vaccinations. At best, people loosely interpret the Scriptures in regard to such matters.

Now, there are CLEAR concerns about issues pertaining to vaccinations. The idea that aborted fetal cells may or may not be used either in the development or trials is VERY concerning to believers. Unfortunately, there is quite a bit of misinformation about this (sadly from either conspiracy and/or faith-based alternative "health" websites).

To be very clear in regard to the COVID-19 vaccines: None of these American vaccines developed used aborted fetal cells in their vaccines. However, both Pfizer and Moderna did use fetal cells for testing the effectivity confirmation tests.

This doesn't mean that they used aborted fetal "tissue." Rather, this means that cells were extracted from aborted fetuses during the 1970s and 1980s. Those cells were incubated and allowed to multiply over the decades since. The descended cells from the originals have been used in many tests for medication ever since.

The most commonly cited fetal cells used in research are HEK-293. These were derived from a lab in the Netherlands. While the origin of this particular line of cells is not clear, there is a degree of likelihood that these cells were taken from an aborted baby.

Now, the spiritual and moral concerns regarding this are obvious. These particular cells were gathered following a baby's death. The descended cells (that have been subsequently multiplied) have been used in medical research and pharmaceutical testing ever since.

At the same time, these descended cells are utilized in testing the safety of medications and vaccines in the effort to prove efficacy or limit adverse effects. Thus, it can be argued by some that those descended cell lines actually "save" lives. Yet, the spiritual and moral concerns pertaining to their use are still undeniable to many Christians.

I had a discussion with some believers about this once. They pointed to the thought of using aborted cells in vaccines as their greatest obstacle. However, when I pointed out that we can know precisely which vaccines used them IN TESTING (and not in the actual vaccine) and which didn't even use them at all, they admitted that they were "still opposed" to vaccines in general.

Between questioning the general validity of vaccines to the conspiracy theories oft-repeated by anti-vax websites, there was enough in them to cause them to hesitate even if the aforementioned greatest issue wasn't true.

To those believers, they saw vaccines as a type of or foreshadow of the "mark of the beast" -- and "acceptance of this world's systems." One of them even suggested that the mark of the beast would be a vaccine derived from the "cellular line of the antichrist."

I suppose that I can understand those concerns. Yet, at the same time, I do have an issue with presenting those concerns -- rooted in highly suspect interpretations of Scripture and selective use of a very limited source of medical sources -- when they are used to pronounce an ultimatum to (or upon) believers.

One of the people that I mentioned earlier told me that accepting a vaccination was akin to "eternal damnation" (but only if it is done already knowing "the truth" that he told them).

This actually bothers me. This person was so strongly convinced of his own interpretation of vaccinations that he was willing to declare vaccination as an unpardonable sin. Of course, that person was convinced that we were already in the middle of the Great Tribulation -- and this discussion took place a little over eight years ago. I'm not sure what he thinks of this now (since he hasn't spoken to me since).

Personally, I would not have a problem with taking the COVID-19 vaccine. Now, I have the added advantage of not being at-risk. So, I wouldn't be permitted to get the vaccine until those who are at greater risk (including the elderly, those with preexisting medical issues and front-line medical professionals) are already vaccinated. I suppose that they are something of "guinea pigs" for the rest of us.

To be very clear: I have no problem with individuals who choose to NOT be vaccinated. I totally understand their qualms, concerns and questions. At the same time, I understand that there are risks associated both with and, to a much greater extent, without vaccines.

D
drifter

This virus has a 99.5%+ percent survival rate. If people want to get a vaccine, they are welcome to. However, I am a healthy, 35 year old man. My immune system functions just fine. I don't need a vaccine; I would rather get the virus and let my immune system do naturally what a vaccine would do artificially. Herd immunity can be reached by letting low risk segments of the population get the virus and fight it off. Once you get it, and your immune system defeats it, you have immunity (most likely for life).

C
ccchhhrrriiisss

Hi drifter,

I feel somewhat similar to you. I am very healthy. As far as I know, I have never contracted the flu. I rarely get sick (strange because my wife is a teacher and is around plenty of sick children). I have rarely visited a doctor's office or emergency room.

Most people who contract COVID-19 are not at risk of death. In fact, the only people who are at a truly heightened risk (compared with the mode) from COVID-19 are the elderly (particularly those with weakened immune systems) and individuals with very specific preexisting conditions (namely pulmonary and coagulator issues). Others who contract COVID-19 are likely to get better within ten days.

At the same time, "herd immunity" is a little more complex than "let people get it." Instead, it requires the majority of a population contracting a disease and surviving through it.

Herd immunity can be achieved; however, it would have some notable costs and tradeoffs.

For herd immunity to happen, most people will need to contract COVID-19. This coronavirus has contraction-mortality rate of 1.66% (total number of contractions divided by total number of deaths) in the United States. Thus, if half of Americans contracted COVID-19, this particular rate would mean that more than 2.5 Million Americans would die from it.

This rate might actually go up because hospitals and emergency rooms across America would run out of room. As of 2018, hospitals and clinics in America had a capacity of less than 1 Million beds (for ALL medical issues).

The mortality rate from COVID-19 takes into account those who have contracted the disease but survived after hospitalization (largely from medical care). Thus, it is likely that there would be a shortage of hospital beds during a herd immunity attempt -- which is why most nations opted against trying to achieve herd immunity with COVID-19.

Of course, you mentioned allowing "low risk segments of the population" to get the virus and fight it off. Consequently, the people most at risk would never reach "herd immunity." They would simply hope that the rest of society becomes immune to it. This is a process that would take years. Thus, this would mean YEARS of quarantine before herd immunity is viable.

More importantly, even if this was the choice method of fighting a pandemic, it is nearly impossible for a society to achieve herd immunity during a time of mass quarantine. Herd immunity requires most people to contract the virus in a short period of time. This just isn't going to happen because government leaders will not allow it. Thus, herd immunity is virtually impossible to be achieved by this particular method.

In the centuries past, it was easier for societies to achieve herd immunity. After all, there was little option to fight a pandemic. Hospitals were "few and far between." Medicine itself was not advanced enough to properly treat ailments (let alone "cure" them).

Even communication efforts were limited. Before the advent of the internet, television or radio, people relied upon newspapers to spread the word about outbreaks (and what to do). Unfortunately, "yellow journalism" was as much of an issue then as it is now.

Now, the grand irony is that herd immunity is an effort to gain the same type of immunity that is achieved through vaccines. If anything, a vaccine provides what would be instant immunity rather than the slower (and more deadly) efforts at achieving herd immunity.

There are questions as to whether vaccines would allow generational antibodies the same way that herd immunity did in the past.

For instance, I have a particular gene variation known as "CCR5-Delta 32." This is a gene variation found in a small segment of Caucasians -- particularly those descended from northern European ancestors (most strongly associated with Scandinavia).

This gene variation offers very strong immunity from diseases like smallpox, bubonic plague and even HIV/AIDS. It is believed that this gene variation was due to a mutation derived from segments of northern European populations that achieved herd immunity during the Black Plague (between 1346 and 1352) or, probably, an earlier yet similar plague outbreak.

In roughly six years, the Black Plague decimated entire villages and cities. Between 75 Million and 200 Million people died -- killing between 30-60% of Europe's population. Yet, certain communities and families were barely effected. This was due to the CCR5-Delta 32 gene variation.

Interestingly, the Black Plague originated in Asia. Yet, it killed Europeans and Northern Africans at a much higher rate. This may have been the result of certain Asian areas having achieved some form of herd mentality of that particular strain.

Despite six years of mass death, the Black Plague didn't really end in Europe from herd immunity. Rather, it ended because they developed the concept of "quarantine." Venetians began a policy of quarantining sailors aboard ships for 30 days. This caused an almost immediate reduction in the spread the plague. Word spread and it became the de facto method of fighting the plague. Many people died -- but the rate of death stopped due to quarantine.

It is possible that herd immunity might have eventually been achieved. Yet, the cost associated with it would have been too high.

I'm certainly not in the "shut down the entire country" crowd. I think that there is a way to protect those who are most at risk (i.e., the elderly and those with preexisting media conditions) without shutting down or locking down everyone else.

Most deaths are the ones that I mentioned. The rest of us who contract COVID-19 will recover. I live in California. This perpetual state of lockdown (largely since March 2020) has been very hard. It would have been better to secure those at risk without forcing the entire state into a virtual exile.

The vaccines are now available (after President Trump's "Operation Warp Speed" initiative). Once a majority of Americans are vaccinated (or recovered), it will be safer for those who are most at-risk of mortality.

In a deeper sense, I believe that this pandemic should give everyone some pause and reflection.

A medical doctor was recently asked by a classroom of children to explain what it is that he does. He responded with the canned answer, "I save lives."

Later, he came to the realization that this isn't accurate. No matter what he does, people will STILL DIE. In fact, apart from an end-of-all-things events, all of us, everyone we know and everyone we have ever known will ultimately die.

This doctor isn't "saving lives." Rather, he realized that through his best efforts, he can only DELAY death. From the moment that we are born, we will eventually die.

From the perspective of our faith in Christ, we realize that everything that happens AFTER we die is determined by what we did during this short time called "life." Namely, did we believe in and surrender our lives to the One who created all things and gave his life for us?

If so, then "to live is Christ but to die is gain." If not, then that is a change that needs to take place immediately.

D
dolfan

My wife has been around dozens who have died after contracting COVID. It is her job. It continues.

My 59 year old sister recently contracted it and went from mild symptoms to hospitalization with pneumonia related to the worsening severity. She developed a blood clot and is (as of yesterday) at home on blood thinners and pulling through the worse parts of the sickness itself.

I've been one who was skeptical of the CDC and everything connected with COVID. I still am in many ways. But, in spite of all the machinations, manufactured data, manipulated facts, misinformation, disinformation and outright deception and blind guesses -- old people are still dying from it. Middle aged people are dying from it. I've had 2 former clients in otherwise normal health die from COVID with no comorbidities.

So, I've dialed back on my critiques. I don't know enough about it (and, honestly, I don't think anyone really does, especially policymakers and even many physicians) to base opinions about large social issues on what I know. Of course, the government is still the government, so I'll never believe them anyway.

But, I wear a mask. I more or less stay home. I'll likely get the vaccination in due time. And, I'll hope and pray mutations don't skirt whatever good the vaccinations may do in slowing this thing down. It isn't going away. We will ultimately have to manage our lives with it.

One thing we cannot do: turn on each other inside the body of Christ over it. We are one in Christ, and the division of believers in Him over this or any other social ill better be worth defending to our Judge. We need each other.

S
Sree


Most people who contract COVID-19 are not at risk of death. In fact, the only people who are at a truly heightened risk (compared with the mode) from COVID-19 are the elderly (particularly those with weakened immune systems) and individuals with very specific preexisting conditions (namely pulmonary and coagulator issues). Others who contract COVID-19 are likely to get better within ten days.

I don't believe it is 100% true. I know people with no previous health issues getting affected drastically.

I myself had a very bad flu during Jan 2020 and was sick for 2 weeks. After I recovered, I had to be hospitalized for something serious (within 2 weeks of recovery). I was last month talking to my primary care physician and she related my flu to my hospitalization. She said many got COvid without even knowing in Jan 2020 as the virus became well known only in late Feb and March 2020. So the blood clot that formed due to covid could have caused my serious hospitalization case. When I was in that serious health condition, the doctors could not point out any reason for my sudden health deterioration. I believe all could be Covid related. There is a very good possibility. I am in my 30s and in decent health.

I see Christians taking 2 different extreme stands on Covid.
1. Christians who think Covid is a conspiracy and do not take social distancing seriously. They do not care about vaccines and call it some mark of beast etc. The same people when they get a heart attack or stroke will embrace modern-day medicine but when it comes to things like Covid they will not believe doctors! Hypocrites.

2. Christians who are anxious about the virus, live in fear and stop meeting people altogether. They keep anxiously waiting for the vaccine as if that is their only hope. Again a Christian should not be anxious about anything, especially about death as Jesus took the fear of death away from us (Heb 2:15).

I always believe the truth is in the middle. One should do his part in following social distancing. One should not tempt God in the name of faith by not wearing masks! Jesus himself commanded us not to tempt God by jumping from the temple! At the same time, we should not be anxious about vaccines. Just like we trust our doctors when it comes to matters of life and death like heart attack and stroke, we should also trust them with vaccines and take them. I wish Christians were simple in their thought process instead of complicating things around them. Jesus was always a simple person with the simple thought process.


I don't believe Jesus will ask anyone why they took the vaccine. No one will lose their salvation by taking it. Taking a vaccine no matter how it is made, will not affect your salvation one bit. It will not affect your walk with Christ one bit. To pure all things are pure, if you have a pure conscience then you dont need to worry about all these things. But when people ignore pure conscience and live in Sin they try to compensate their impure conscience by beliving in conspiracy theories and some external purity, like do not touch and do not eat etc!

Taking or not taking COvid vaccine is like the teaching of apostle in Colossians 2:20 -

20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as 21 "Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 which all refer to things destined to perish with use””in accordance with the commandments and teachings of man? 23 These are matters which do have the [aa]appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and humility and severe treatment of the body BUT ARE OF NO VALUE against fleshly indulgence.

Taking or not taking vaccines have no value against fleshly indulgence. When a person truly focused on waging war against fleshly indulgence, he will not waste his time on such conspiracy theories.

D
drifter

I recommend everyone read (and possibly sign) the Great Barrington Declaration. It was authored by Dr. Martin Kulldorff, professor of medicine at Harvard University, Dr. Sunetra Gupta, professor at Oxford University, and Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, professor at Stanford University Medical School. It is co-signed by 13,290 medical and public health scientists, as well as 40,199 medical practitioners.

Here is an excerpt:

"As immunity builds in the population, the risk of infection to all ”“ including the vulnerable ”“ falls. We know that all populations will eventually reach herd immunity ”“ i.e. the point at which the rate of new infections is stable ”“ and that this can be assisted by (but is not dependent upon) a vaccine."

D
drifter

Sree, I agree with you. I try not to take an extreme position one way or the other. However, calling anyone who questions the official party line about Covid a "conspiracy theorist" is unfair. I just recently heard a newscast (MSNBC if I remember correctly) calling Covid "the worst virus in human history". This is blatantly false fear mongering. If you look at the evidence, it is overwhelming that ungodly people are using this virus as a scapegoat to push through evil political agendas.

On a side note, back in early February of last year I got sick (shortness of breath, flu like symptoms etc.) after one of my co workers had just come back from Los Angeles; he was sick as well. I learned later that there had been confirmed Covid cases in Los Angeles around that time. I can't be sure of this, but I would bet my next paycheck I contracted Covid then. So my town (around 35,000 people) may have already been exposed before any lockdown measures or mask mandates were in place. What happened? Were people dropping dead in the streets (a la Chinese Communist Party propaganda)? No! This isn't the bubonic plague. It's a particularly nasty strain of the flu.

C
ccchhhrrriiisss

Hi Sree,

I don't believe it is 100% true. I know people with no previous health issues getting affected drastically.

I think that I understand what you've written. The rates that I'm referring to are derived and quantified from the collected medical data.

There are a couple of ways to look at the mortality rate from COVID-19.

1.) Overall mortality rate: 0.12%

First of all, you compare the overall population with the percentage who die from COVID-19. That is the overall rate of death from COVID-19. Since the population is vast, this number isn't particularly accurate.

- There are about 328 Million people living in the United States.
- There have been more than 399,000 deaths associated with COVID-19.

This works out to a total rate of 0.12%. This figure is derived by dividing the number of deaths by the total population.

This means that 0.12% of the overall American population has ALREADY DIED from COVID-19. While that figure seems quite low, it doesn't tell the full story.

2.) Contraction-morality rate: 1.66%

- There have been 24.1 Million COVID-19 cases in the United States.
- There have been more than 399,000 deaths associated with COVID-19.

This works out to a total rate of 1.66% (currently rising upward). This figure is derived by dividing the total number of deaths by the total number of people diagnosed with COVID-19.

This is a more accurate assessment of COVID-19 mortality rates.

If someone were to say that they weren't worried about a particular strain of flu because 99.88% will not die from it, that is technically "accurate" but not a good explanation.

However, if you know that more than 24.1 Million people (nearly 7.4% of the entire population) have ALREADY contracted that strain and nearly 2% of those people (nearly 400,000) have already DIED from it, then the gravity of the situation becomes a bit clearer.

Statistically speaking, the people who are at greatest risk of death from COVID-19 are the elderly and those with preexisting medical issues (with pulmonary and coagulation issues chief among them). However, there are younger and healthier people who have died too. Of course, they are the outlier when it comes to COVID mortality.

Nationally, over 80% of COVID-19 deaths have a comorbidity. This means that a person with a preexisting medical condition contracted COVID and it led to death. Of the remaining people without a comorbidity who died from this pandemic so far, most were over the age of 75. This is likely due to the breakdown of the immune system as you age.

Very few non-elderly or people without a comorbidity have died from COVID-19. Still, there are a number who have (albeit small compared with the overall rates).

The issue here with the vaccines is that they are scientifically shown to be effective against COVID-19. They did NOT use aborted tissue or cells in the creation of the vaccine.

However, during the testing phase, the vaccine was tested for effectiveness in a lab using many different types of cell lines -- including one cell line that descended from replicated cells that were probably originally taken from an aborted baby during the early 1970s.

Does this mean that believers should NOT take this vaccine?

I don't think so.

Obviously, we hold the same view of abortion as our Lord. Abortion is murder. However, the cells in that cell line were likely taken from that murdered child and replicated over the decades since. They were not used IN the vaccine. The vaccine was simply tested in those cells (among many others) in the effort to prove efficacy.

Personally, I wouldn't have a problem taking this vaccine. I'll likely take it once it is available to me. I'll also encourage my parents to pray about it too. I'm certainly open to scrutinizing the collected data too.

I'm also aware that the Lord can protect us from deadly dangers and even pandemics. At the same time, I know that we are to do what we can when we can.

Shortly after I came to the Lord, I knew a couple that was expecting their first child. They had become enamored by a prosperity gospel message.

While speaking with them, they said that they believed that we were "free from the curses of Genesis" -- and that they were sure that she wouldn't feel "birth pains." This husband and wife were "claiming" that they would be exempt from those things due to the healing offered by our Lord.

After the mother had her baby, I saw her a week later at church. I asked her, "Did it hurt?"

Her eyes widened and looked very serious. She nodded and replied, "Oh yeah."

S
Sree


The issue here with the vaccines is that they are scientifically shown to be effective against COVID-19. They did NOT use aborted tissue or cells in the creation of the vaccine.

However, during the testing phase, the vaccine was tested for effectiveness in a lab using many different types of cell lines -- including one cell line that descended from replicated cells that were probably originally taken from an aborted baby during the early 1970s.

Does this mean that believers should NOT take this vaccine?

I understand your view. Here is my problem against those who are concerned about the use of cells from aborted babies.

Suppose one of their children is blind and they found an option for eye transplantation, will they worry about whether the person from whom the eyes were murdered or not? Even if the original owner of the eyes was murdered which is a sin, we still do not mind using that eye to give sight to another. Many including me are voluntary eye donors who are wishing their eyes to be used to others even if we are murdered.

How are the cells of aborted babies any different from the eyes of a person who is murdered? When it comes to organ transplantation, Christians have no problem with the donor being murdered, but why alone minor things like vaccines?

I see huge hypocrisy here. If you are trusting modern-day medicines then trust them fully and take everything by faith and thanking God.

I believe such people get some self-denial feeling when they deny such vaccines and hence derive a religious feeling out of such worthless denials.

D
drifter

The difference between using cells from aborted babies in medical research and giving someone an eye transplant is an ungodly law allows children to be murdered in the womb, and another ungodly law allows medical research companies to buy dismembered body parts of children to do experiments on. There is no law that says adults can be murdered for body parts.

D
deogloria

Just some final comments.
I pointed out that many people died in Norway. Someone commented:
"There are adverse reactions to all sorts of vaccines, even the flu shot. "
If once one of our family members dies, then we probably don't call it an "adverse reaction" anymore.

Some are probably suggesting I'm a hypocrite because i use technology such as internet etc.
I use the internet but I'm avoiding most websites !
Another example: I have probably flown over a hundred times in an aircraft. But I'm avoiding the Boeing 737 MAX for the time being, for some that makes me a hypocrite.

"If you are trusting modern-day medicines then trust them fully and take everything by faith and thanking God."
You are misusing the word "faith" here. This has nothing to do with Biblical faith.

I don't want to have anything more to do with this discussion.
I said all along "choose this day..."
I believe some of the most evil times are ahead of us and the Church needs to go through "fire" to be purified.
Time will tell us if we made the right decisions.

Keep your eyes on Jesus !

S
Sree


The difference between using cells from aborted babies in medical research and giving someone an eye transplant is an ungodly law allows children to be murdered in the womb, and another ungodly law allows medical research companies to buy dismembered body parts of children to do experiments on. There is no law that says adults can be murdered for body parts.

I appreciate this view but we live by God's law first according to which both abortion and murder are sins.

In the time of Apostle Paul, it was a common practice to offer meat to idols before selling it in the market. The early Christians were concerned about eating such meat knowing that it would have most probably been offered to idols. The concern of the early Christians was exactly the same, they said if they eat such meat that was offered to Idols, are we not encouraging this practice of idol worship?

This is the same question that you have, if I take vaccines then am I not supporting a bad law that legalizes abortion?

Here is Paul's answer - 1 Cor 10:25 - Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience.

So just take vaccines that are sold in the market without raising any questions of conscience on how it is made in the background.

1 Cor 10:28 - But if someone tells you, "This food was offered to idols,” then do not eat it, for the sake of the one who told you and for the sake of conscience

Now if any company proudly advertises that they are using aborted baby cells and thereby they support abortion and women's rights! Then there is a reason for us not to take it for the sake of the conscience of those who watch us. Even in that case, no one will be burdened by their conscience, because to the pure all things are pure.

T
Tomo07

Anyone any further thoughts, I'm still unsure about all this. I went back to view so videos on youtube about this subject, some were recommended here via links, however youtube is removing them... apparently they breach the 'community guidelines'
This whole censorship and cancelation move is wrong and makes any research hard when one side is being silenced...

T
TMK

My mom and dad, both near 80, have had their second shot last week and both are perfectly fine.

YouTube is not the best place for info unless you are really into extremism and conspiracy theories.

J
JFW

Well it seems the answers to you inquiry are as varied as one might expect from a modern day pool of commentators,... it’s interesting to me that there isn’t a consensus other than to say those that won’t willingly take the vaccine (flu shot) are apparently being considered either hypocrites or conspiracy theorist 🤷🏽”â™‚️ by those whom would willingly take it... this (to me) is a sad thing-

There is undoubtedly confirmation bias followed by cognitive dissonance involved on both sides and as such requires a sincere love of the truth to navigate.

As a barber I am in daily constant contact with a diverse cross section of the American public, from physicians to maids and have a unique opportunity to question them on a very personal level- for some reason people tend to talk to me about personal issues and I don’t discourage it but see it as an opportunity to introduce or encourage them in the Lord :)

Having said this, many clients have had the different vaccines and some with no reaction, while others have mild and others still severe (requiring hospitalization) reactions to having received the vaccinations and booster shots. As yet I haven’t had any clients die from the vaccine but I do have clients that have been told their loved ones died of Covid -

Personally I’m not "pro” nor "anti” vaxx but I do appreciate the methodology of science and it’s readily observable that the scientific method has been laid aside in many cases regarding the collection and distribution of information on this event. Science can’t do a 180 on an issue and still be science, as empirical evidence is the standard and has been all but abandoned except for when it adds credibility to a persons predetermined disposition,... ie; confirmation bias -

I honestly believe this entire event is purely spiritual and all of the social, cultural, political, and medical aspects are the manifestations of what takes place first in the spirit- we are in a spiritual war that has utilized this event to further divide people, turning even the closest brethren against one another-

Ultimately each of us must decide for ourselves wether we will or will not take the vaccine and what are we willing to give up in order to maintain our position. Wether that be the ability to travel, to physically enter businesses or even attend worship,... these things will inevitably come into play and in many places already have. Fear and faith both require you to believe what you can’t see,... choose wisely 🙏🏻

Regarding the empirical evidence of science, I’ll leave you with this -
Having worked with the homeless population for years they were especially on my heart when this event first broke out and interestingly haven’t been decimated in spite of their lack of potable water, sanitation, consistent food sources, access to medical services, or even basic hygiene not to mention their complete inability to socially distance during the colder months. I know from personal experience that their immune systems are in general weak and historically disease spreads rapidly in the various "camps” yet they have not had high rates of infections or deaths due to this event. With the purported transmissibility and mortality rates the homeless population should have been severely affected,... yet they are not 🧐
As a side note; another modern entitlement that the homeless population doesn’t have access to could be a factor as they by in large don’t have access to media in the form of medical propaganda surrounding them 24/7 as does the rest of the population... perhaps this may also be a factor 🤷🏽”â™‚️

(For me) when the scientific community goes back and forth on basic (testable) issues there is usually allot of monies involved as is the case with this event... several companies, not just pharmaceutical, stand to make substantial profits from mass vaccination schedules and as such will more often than not make decisions and determinations based on these factors over and against others. Governments also stand to gain more control of their respective citizens and history will show that when a government gains a measure of control in order to remedy a temporary situation, they rarely if ever give it up after the situation has been resolved but rather seek to justify a continuation of said control... I believe this will be no different and will only be a new basis for a most extreme form of subverting the worlds population into a medical tyranny utilizing the self-preservation mechanism to turn people against one another and effectively dismembering the body of Christ around the world :(

D
deogloria

"Anyone any further thoughts, I'm still unsure about all this"
dolfan has already posted the following link in another thread, because it is important I copy it here as well.
https://www.israel21c.org/has-israel-just-found-the-cure-for-covid/
There are different cures available, but we don't have a choice, someone else is making it for us.
Why is youtube removing some links ?
You can also try different search engines, like swisscows.com and others. You might find different results.
Thankfully there is still a lot of good information out there.

B
browny

Thanks brother Greg!

B
browny

Brother Great...please tell me, did you post your article ?

D
deogloria

The New South Wales government has temporarily suspended the administration of the AstraZeneca vaccine to all age groups after Australian medical experts warned of its rare but potential blood clotting side effects. (Sydney Morning Herald)

Update:The New South Wales government has resumed administering the AstraZeneca vaccine to all age groups at its state-run clinics after a brief pause following warnings from Australian medical experts of rare but potentially dangerous blood clotting side effects.

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