Calling the wise virgins...

seeing as the midnight hour approaches fast, any last words of advice on some last-minute oil I can store up? [Resources]

the teachings of Christ and the apostle paul are your best resources. make up your mind that you will die for christ because you are meant to have already died with christ ,get your head around those typs of doctrines ,and start fasting and praying right now , and you will get the oil you need ,if you don't denie your self and take up your cross in these last days , you will fall away with the rest of the lukewarm Christians, one must not practice any sins ,without holiness know one will see the lord brother. don't make up any excuses for any sin even the smallest ,and let holy spirit convict you ...5But if anyone keeps His word, the love of God has been truly perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 Whoever claims to abide in Him must walk as Jesus walked. 19Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: "The Lord knows those who are His,” and, "Let everyone who names the name of [g]Christ depart from iniquity.”

Hi all,
If you work hard enough at it and do all the right things you will be able to get to heaven without grace!
I think all the people who want to deny themselves should get on a plane to South Korea and cross the border into the North Korea and they will be gauranteed martyrdom.
Of course this is only for those superior Christians who dont see themselves as lukewarm,
urs staff

More wisdom from the man who loves to talk ,now placing stumbling blocks in front others . God help us . Can you smell the leaven in here brothers and sisters , seek god brothers and sisters ,and denie your selves

Hi Brothagary ,
Perhaps you need to work harder so that you can save yourself and forget about Grace.You can then boast in heaven I got here on my own,I worked hard for it.Plenty of works to be done in North Korea.
The problem with Post Tribulation Christianity is not whether we go through the Tribulation or not ,its all the other false doctrine that comes with like the on again off again doctrine of Grace and salvation,One minute ur saved and the next minute ur doomed ,one minute ur saved ,the next minute ur doomed ,one minute ur saved the next.......I think even people with a limited intellect and wisdom could understand that,
urs staff

I also see this as the last days with the Pandemic and seeing the world turning upside down.

I am setting my heart on having my standard surpass that of Pharisees.

Matt 5:20 - For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

The Pharisees had a very good external testimony but internally they were not pleasing God. Jesus called them whitewashed tombs. The Oil is internal stuff inside a lamp. No one knows if the Lamp has oil inside it or not. In the same way, if we need to have oil then we need to seek to please the Lord in the inside area of our life where no one is seeing us.

Staff

Can you perhaps explain what you mean by post tribulation believers believing in an on again off again type of salvation? It's news to me is why I am asking and I have never come across it or heard it voiced even once from any post-trib believers.

Have any post-trib teachers taught this and if so, can you provide any quotes from them of this being taught?

It's all new news to me.

Hi Docs,
Post trib believers mostly believe that "you can lose your salvation" and Pre trib mostly believe "once saved always saved".
The problem for Post Trib believers because if you can "lose" your salvation ,then what causes the loss? when does it occur and can I regain it again.And if not why not.How do I know Ive lost my salvation.How do you know Ive lost my salvation?
What if I lose my salvation with one day to go before I die?
Although they say grace is enough ,it isnt and you will see them trying to measure Grace by saying things like "cheap grace" .If you can lose your salvation then grace has to be measurable in some way.Do they believe we will go through the trib because of their salvation view ?or the other way around?.Of course no Post Trib believer will say that you can lose ur salvation and gain it back and lose it again but thats the outcome of their argument.When you confront them of this they will bombard you with endless scripture to hide their obvious problem with conditional grace.
Tied in with this is the problem they have with Persecution and their delibrate flawed understanding of Tribulation.
Paul for instance went through persecution and he listed the benefits of persecution but he never longed for it or went out of his way to find it,
urs staff
P.s Pre trib believers also have a problem with the doctrine of Grace insumuch as what is allowable and what is not.

Brother Gary

"The teachings of Christ and the apostle Paul are your best resources. Make up your mind that you will die for Christ because you are meant to have already died with christ. Get your head around those typs of doctrines, and start fasting and praying right now, and you will get the oil you need. If you don't deny yourself and take up your cross in these last days You will fall away with the rest of the lukewarm Christians. One must not practice any sins. Without holiness no one will see the Lord brother! Don't make up any excuses for any sin even the smallest, and let the Holy Spirit convict you.”

Amen Brother Gary

I would just add practice righteousness, and any sin the Holy Spirit convicts you of repent of it! And through the grace we have received through Christ Jesus; forsake those sins! Through the Spirits empowering! We have all things through Christ. We only need to walk in them through the Spirits empowering, direction, and God’s instructions written in His Word.

amen billy, whom the Son sets free will be free indeed because he who commits sins is the slave of sin, but we can and are slaves of righteousness now, Jesus wants to set us free of all sin, even shyness which had plagued me most of my life since I was a little boy if only we can believe that we are dead to sin, and let Christ be fully formed in us, Paul said it is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me ... if we by the Spirit do put to death the deeds of the body we will live in a victory that in many denominations is not being taught, and therefore our brothers stay in bondage to certain sins that Jesus died for,, the bible says resist the devil and he will flee from us . even all lust did you know we can crusafie it all by the spirit of faith , all things are possible to him who believes, we can be entirely sanctified and can completely set free from fear because fear involves torment, but this perfect spirit of love shall cast out all fear and sin , and we can be cleansed from all unrighteousness , and walk even as our master walked ..jesus said a deciple is not greater then his master , but when he has been taught , he WILL BE like his master .....

Maybe as a phrase becomes more familiar it also becomes abstract... losing its initial point of focus.
Perhaps what is sometimes called "losing salvation” is in all honesty a "working out of their salvation” yet emotions get involved and sobriety of mind is forfeited.

If we’re all honest with ourselves, none of us "KNOWS” for certain exactly how salvation works in its totality, which why there is and has been debate over this subject since at least Augustine. We believe we "know” and act in faith to that which we do believe (wether it corresponds to our mouth confession or not). That is why we need grace, because no matter how well we think we see... we see dimly. Even the "Elijahs” have their "Jezebels” just as they have their "Elishas”. Meaning due to our limited perspective we can only see Gods faithfulness clearly in certain areas while others lay undiscovered to us. Even Peter was rebuked for such after years as an Apostle.

So no one, save our Lord, is above rebuke because on our best day in our best efforts, we still fall short of the complete picture.
If we can’t agree on this or a similar point, any discussion will inevitably follow the broad way of the world thru the works of the flesh; variance, strife, divisions, all refuse to submit so they need a lot of road to share. Whereas the Lords way is narrow because it requires us to submit to a single way where each esteems others as greater than themselves.

I guess it is somewhat humiliating to not know,... but if we submit to our head (Christ), He knows and He shows us what we need to know to do what He calls us to do. It’s a compartmentalized, need to know basis kinda thing and He doesn’t let His left hand (Peter) know what His right hand (John) know what He is telling/doing with it.

We are supposed to fight with each other-
Some will read the statement with as "against” while others will read it "alongside” ....

"to he who is holy, everything is holy... to he that is not holy, nothing is.”

I believe it is a simple question. Jesus clearly told us that at his coming there will be foolish Christians (virgins) who will not be ready for his coming. The apostles called their time as last days and even last hour. Then 2000 years later we are living in last second. How much more should we be diligent in being a wise virgin. Instead of going into theological arguments on when Jesus will come (post or pretrib), who will be saved (OSAS or Armenian), we can all share on how we can be a wise virgin in the coming days. I believe that will benefit us more than these worthless arguments.

amen brother dan, and amen brother sree ,and amen brother flecter

Hi ,
The foolish virgins could be the ones not ready for the rapture because they are not expecting him to return in that way.Stubborningly refusing to believe the Church is going to be raptured and are unprepared because of that,
urs staff

Dear Staff,

May I plead with you to cease - I am embarrassed for you.

mak

Dear dear Mak,
I think everyone is totally entitled for their opinion and views and if you dont like my theological views just come out and say so.I didnt see you get on your moral high ground earlier when I was being insulted by dear dear brothegary!Your post is the least genuine post so far on this thread .At least brothegaray doesnt pretend to have any manners.

My points are totally valid and I repeat them .
Could it be that people who dont understand the rapture and think that we go through the Tribulation are the foolish virgins ,
urs staff

My points are totally valid and I repeat them .
Could it be that people who dont understand the rapture and think that we go through the Tribulation are the foolish virgins ,

I am trying to answer assuming this is a genuine question. I do not get involved in PreTrib and Post trib rapture arguments, as scripture is very clear on the coming of Christ and the Church going through tribulation. The important thing is to be ready for His coming.

Just because someone believes in the coming tribulation, does not mean he will not be ready for the coming of Christ. Irrespective of when the coming of Christ is, we are going to meet him for sure either by his appearance or by our death on this earth. We don't know when we will die. So anyone who is truly born again will always be ready to meet Christ.

For example, every pregnant woman knows that she will not deliver a child until she goes through delivery pain. But does that mean she will be unprepared till the pain comes? My own wife who has delivered 3 children was prepared long before her delivery with her delivery bag fully packed!

Also if we believe in this logic then we should also believe that OSAS people will live in Sin because they believe that they cannot lose their salvation! If what we believe can bring lethargy then the most dangerous of all beliefs to me is OSAS. It can easily take a person to Hell!

Hi Staff,

I pray daily for you now. Is there anything in particular you need prayer concerning?

In Love,

Billy

staff,

/Post trib believers mostly believe that "you can lose your salvation" and Pre trib mostly believe "once saved always saved"./

Any Evidence? Actual statements or quotes from those who teach on each side? Hearsay? Your own opinion? I think you need to qualify it for us instead of making these broad statements. As far as post trib believers go, this hasn't been my experience at all.

"Cheap grace" is a reference to Dietrich Bonhoeffer's famous essay where he described modern grace many times being grace that doesn't require repentance, a change of heart and life style. Just join a church or put your name on a membership role and you are thought to be Christian. That is cheap grace that basically requires nothing of a person.

/Tied in with this is the problem they have with Persecution and their deliberate flawed understanding of Tribulation./

This is not true and is also an accusation. Pre trib and post trib believers understand well the difference between tribulation that all believers experience and "the" great tribulation that will occur at the end of the age.

If thy know something but are deliberately misrepresenting what they believe, then they are dishonest. This in its self is a dishonest accusation not rooted in reality but your personal bias. I don't agree with the pre trib view, but they are not dishonest on this point as you insinuate.

/Paul for instance went through persecution and he listed the benefits of persecution but he never longed for it or went out of his way to find it,/

That is not news to anyone, whether one is pre trib or post trib. Believing that persecution is in the future for Christian believers is not actively seeking it. Nothing could be further from the truth. If I were you also, I would consider stopping the mocking of other believers with your suggestion that they go to North Korea or somewhere if they are seeking persecution. It goes along with your totally untrue statement that many believers were disappointed that Hillary Clinton didn't get elected because it meant they would not get to suffer persecution under her.

Many things are wrong about your post. It makes me think you have not really looked into these issues because if you have, you could not state some of the things you have. I'm not going to get into a long swap of posts and counter posts. Your statements in your post contain man subjective flaws.

Yeah Billy ,
Keep your prayers and just be respectful to other peoples views ,thanks staff

Hi Docs,
I stand by what I said regarding the post trib view,losing of salvation,the measuring of grace by calling it cheap,and the delibrate confusion by post tribbers regarding the great tribulation.
Particularly their is no such a thing as "cheap grace" and cant be biblically proven.
I have looked eschatology more than any subject.Also im not mocking anyone ,if they desire persecution so much that we have endless worhip of it then go to places where perscution is and check it out.It is true about Hillary Clinton and some SI posters ,they hated that she didnt get in and persecution didnt come to America in 2016.
Subjective flaws in your opinion and everyone can have their say and I answered your posts and if you dont want to do me the same courtesy thats is your right,no problem,
urs staff

You mention some having endless worship of persecution. This is just the type of brusque untrue misrepresentations of others I am speaking of. It's false and rude.

Pls disregard. Double post.

Hi Sree,
Thats the point your missing scripture is not at all clear that we go through the trib.
If scripture was so clear on the subject then we wouldnt have the three main views pre,mid and post
I am not saying that my view is the right view as all views seem to come short on certain parts.
Many Christians from all sides can debate to a high level on the merits of one over the other.I did point out that OSAS has problems but also that losing salvation has problems both to do with grace,
I agree with you here on the face of it but I would say that we would probably disagree if we broke the sentence down but perhaps not.

"So anyone who is truly born again will always be ready to meet Christ.

"as scripture is very clear on the coming of Christ and the Church going through tribulation."

urs staff

Hi Toronto Dan ,
I have not stirred up any strife ,its easy to throw around accusations.Any time anyone says anything bad about a post trib rapture(second coming) on SI their are always poor responses to it.Not all people view this subject through that lens.
I notice that you didnt step in defend me when Brothergary was hurling insults earlier??,
urs staff

Hi Docs,
How can this be false or rude?
We need a balanced approach to persecution.Their are more posts about persecution on SI than anything you would have to agree about that,surely?
Ive heard so many misrepresentations about pre trib osas believers beliefs over the years on SI and no one thinks thats wrong ? but when the short comings of the other side is mentioned its rude and false?,
urs staff

You are just wanting to fight a bit more and have the last word.

Saying people on SI that believe persecution is likely coming have a endless worship of persecution. Saying they were disappointed because Hillary Clinton didn't get elected because they wouldn't be persecuted like they desire. Mockingly suggesting people move to North Korea so they can have their persecution. If you can't see how such statements are rude, besides being patently false, nothing I can say will reveal it to you at this point.

I recommend a bit more salt in your speech. No matter how you reply this is my last post on the matter.

Over and out.

"seeing as the midnight hour approaches fast, any last words of advice on some last-minute oil I can store up? [Resources].”

Perhaps give the brother some advice Staff. Since he started this post innocently trying to prepare for Christ.

I’m certain you can do better than this..

"If you work hard enough at it and do all the right things you will be able to get to heaven without grace!
I think all the people who want to deny themselves should get on a plane to South Korea and cross the border into the North Korea and they will be gauranteed martyrdom.
Of course this is only for those superior Christians who dont see themselves as lukewarm,”

urs staff

Added. I hope your posts on all the other forums you represent Christ on are nothing like the ones you continually put down for us! I will continue to pray for you until the Holy Spirit has me stop. A lot of this stuff you write is not edifying any brethren, or building up others in Christ.

Added. I wish I could had sent this to you privately. You have no contact information available though.

In love,
Billy

Hi Docs
This is not true at all I was answering your posts,your posts ,we have different views but and im not mocking ,its true their is plenty of persecution to go around you dont have to wait for it ,if thats what you believe.
I have no doubt their is persecution now and in the future but this over emphasis of persecution over all else is false in my opinion.I am quite happy with my speech and if you want to use salt in your speech ,nobody is stopping you,
urs staff

Hi Billy,
I think the point is made,
1 You cant work to get to heaven
2 Their is plenty of persecution going on right now if it is such a disireable commoditity.
3 Post Trib believers have a superior opinion of their Christianity and go around calling everyone that disagrees with them all kinds of names including lukewarm ,they then have a thin skin when it is pointed out.I didnt see you defend me earlier on in the post by the way or point that "failing out".
Also on edification Billy I can say the exact same thing about all the other posts.
urs staff

P.s Thats me over and out too ,unless to defend myself from baseless accusations.

Brothers... are any of us above reproach??
Nope

Surely we can do better than the world on this and not bicker and bite one another...

4 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

So perhaps, instead of calls of censure or cancellation, of hurt feelings and name calling, finger pointing and the like, we could simply pray for one another 🙏🏻
Remembering to never pray for another brother or sister something we wouldn’t want prayed for us 😇

But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.
13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

A great example of pre and post trib discussion for those whom maybe interested-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ9ok00_J2U