Will the walls of denomination be torn down?

I read in 1 Corinthians 14:26 What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up.

I'm not sure that this scripture above is talking about walls of denomination being torn down. My question is, is there any scripture that mentions that the walls of denomination will eventually be torn down?

Thank you Brother Greg. The reason I even ask this question was, another Brother long ago "He has went to be with the Lord now" mentioned to me one time, that in the latter days, the Bible says, eventually the walls of denomination will be torn down. This thought rose up again in me the other day, so I wanted to dig a little deeper into this, to find scripture/scriptures that confirmed this.

Thank You

When revival comes, walls are either broken down, or set as a protection against unbelieving enemies like in Nehemias time.

When the revival comes to an end and the people of God backslide, all is left are denominational walls or ruins of walls with dry bones inside.

until someone comes and speaks to the dry bones..

Interesting post - when we go back far enough, the church separated over a [Edit: what could be considered a] major doctrinal issue which lead to the Eastern church and Western (now the Roman Catholic).

During the Reformation - it was the Western church that was involved - and the Eastern stayed pretty much out of it. So the question is, if denominations are bad - and we go back far enough, was the Reformation wrong and is the Eastern (Orthodox) the true church?

Blessings -

Hi All,
Denominations will disappear before the end.
Why?
Because all will go out to the wilderness(figuratively) to hear the Spirit of Elijah through the Church.In the wilderness everyone reliquishes their authoriy as the sadducees and pharisees had too when they went out to hear John who was Elijah if you care to accept it.
The Church comes under the Spirit of Elijah and Elijah restores the twelve stones again just as the Tishbite did on Mt Carmel and the Baptist did with the Twelve who according to Peter all came under John's ministry before they came under Jesus's Ministry.Acts 1.Peter explains to the 120 that Pentecost comes from John not Jesus.Jesus being the sacrifice and John being the person who prepared the sacrifice,who poured water on the sacrifice and rebuit the alter namely the Twelve Apostles.
The reason we have denominations (taking into account some are Christian and some are not)in the first place anyway is due to teaching.One says one thing and another believes a different thing.Under the coming Elijah the Twelve stones are restored again,namely teaching or in another way of putting it Apostolic doctrine.Their will be one doctrine or one teaching.The Church is going back out to the wilderness to hear the Spirit of Elijah and come under Apostolic Authority once again because thats where the power will be.Now your wilderness might be inner city LA or the mountains of Columbia,it will be different for everyone but wherever the Spirit of Elijah is the Christian will go out to hear him in the end and come under proper structure and Authority and Teaching.Elijah comes before the Lord always to make ready his paths,to rebuild and restore and to pour water on all who are under the Sacrifice.Times Time and half a time,3 1/2 yrs,1260 days or 42months if you are willing to accept it,
urs staff

Ps you may sit on the fence for a while but you will know who has the authority and who is from God when the Prophets of Baal lose in what ever modern setting that will take place.

Caleb4life

Interesting points

"In my opinion, to have the most accurate perspective on the true church, we must go back to Christ Jesus himself, within whom the church begins and finds its fulfillment. All else is surely man-made"

I agree. Saying this though - Jesus being Sovereign and head of the church knew the Apostles would pass down the teachings. Apostolic succession is part of the church's history. One has to ask - was it the will of God for the church to transition the way it has. An easy answer is no. But a seed starts off small, as does a sapling. When the tree is mature it looks much different. I do see beauty and consistency in church history and the Eastern church. Saying this answering are denominations wrong - maybe, but then denominations are birthed from the Reformation and many are still somewhat protesting causing more schisms. This takes me back to my original thought - would the Western or Eastern church be the true church - and would the Reformation be a negative thing on the church, not positive...

Blessings -

Thanks! Lots of enlightening information here, I appreciate all the replies, and hopefully we can find more scripture that addresses this. I think the denominational walls all over this world, has done more to divide the body of Christ than anything else. JMO

Denominations are not bad in the eyes of God, what is evil in the eyes of God are those who do not want to be part of any earthly fellowship (or Church) and live alone. They blame denominations and wait for it to be torn down but God is waiting for them to repent from their lack of love for fellow brothers and sisters.

Paul himself says divisions are good.

1 COr 11:19And indeed, there must be differences among you to show which of you are approved.

Even the early 1500 years when people think the Church was one, there would have been division inside the one church and only few were approved. Today the divisions are so evident in the name of denominations and only few are approved. Our calling is not to blame the divisions and stay away from Church like few foolish believers here who are not part of any CHurch do! Instead our calling is to find the approved one and be part of it.

Approved side of division (or denomination) is one in which Christ is in the midst. A true disciple of Christ will not stop until he finds a Church with Christ in the midst, he will not be a keyboard warrior fellowshipping with Computers!

When I read that verse and see "there must be divisions", I do not interpret that to be the same thing as someone saying "divisions are good".

I agree with you. "Divisions are good" is not the right interpretation. I believe it should be interpreted as divisions are better than people staying together and fighting.

It is a worldly principle to say that we should always stick together no matter what the situation is. This is not God's view at all.

Yes God wants us to be united in Spirit without any division that is his best plan. But when misunderstandings come and when fights come, it is better to divide than to stay united by force. This is how I believe, God sees things.

In the fellowship I am part of a difference came about celebrating Christmas and few other worthless things. The apostle who was responsible for our fellowship guided the church to divide rather than trying to meet together with all these confusions.

If the Church is not going in the direction in which Christ has walked (the narrow way) then why will people who follow Christ stay in that Church? They will walk out and start a fellowship of like minded believers who want Christ to be in their midst. This is God's will, this is how various denominations were born. They are not born without the will of God. Today those denominations which were born according to the will of God might have deviated from its purpose, that does not mean God never wanted them to exist.

I sensed a measure of condescension toward people that in your opinion have stopped "finding a church" and exchanged a traditional "going to church" habit with online fellowship.

My post is directed towards those who stopped searching for a local fellowship and took it for granted that no Church is worthy for them to be part of! If there are people like this (which I am sure there are) then my post is directed at them. I want to be hard on them because they are perishing without the love for Christ and his disciples.

But if someone is genuinely searching for a local body of believers and doing everything that they can to meet with fellow disciples of Jesus Christ but have still not found the fellowship, then my post is not for them. Let God be a witness to each ones heart. Why should such a person even be offended at my post as they have a genuine desire for a local fellowship.

I would say that I’m desperately seeking a body of Christ, a 5 fold ministry is what I’m looking for, been seeking one for a while, but there doesn’t seem to be any out there in my area. The concept of the five-fold ministry comes from Ephesians 4:11, "It was he who gave some to be (1) apostles, some to be (2) prophets, some to be (3) evangelists, and some to be (4) pastors and (5) teachers." Primarily as a result of this verse, some believe God has restored, or is restoring, the offices of apostle and prophet in the church today. Ephesians 4:12-13 tells us that the purpose of the five-fold ministry is, "to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ." So, since the body of Christ definitely is not built up to unity in the faith and has not attained to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ, the thinking goes, the offices of apostle and prophet must still be in effect.

I would say that I’m desperately seeking a body of Christ, a 5 fold ministry is what I’m looking for, been seeking one for a while, but there doesn’t seem to be any out there in my area. The concept of the five-fold ministry comes from Ephesians 4:11, "It was he who gave some to be (1) apostles, some to be (2) prophets, some to be (3) evangelists, and some to be (4) pastors and (5) teachers."

I appreciate your heart but how do we think God will bless a Church with these five-fold ministry? They are not going to jump from heaven with title like Apostle or elder or evangelists. They are people who joined a local Church with burden to glorify Christ in the Church and then God anoints them to take up an office. What if people who are waiting for a Church to appear with these 5 fold ministry are actually called to join a local Church to take up one of these ministries? In other words what if you are called to join a small local fellowship to be a teacher or a prophet or even an Apostle?

Based on my experience with building local Churches, most people who come searching for these ministries do not have patience to see it being planted. They just quickly point out what we are lacking and leave. But out of those who stayed and remained patient, I see God raising Prophets and teachers.

This is just my observation, I am not judging anyone here.

Sreeram said.. Based on my experience with building local Churches, most people who come searching for these ministries do not have patience to see it being planted. They just quickly point out what we are lacking and leave. But out of those who stayed and remained patient, I see God raising Prophets and teachers.

This is just my observation, I am not judging anyone here.

Sreeram, For the record, I'm not trying to hand pick a Church. let me say this, I'm 70, and it's not the 50's anymore, where a person could walk into most any church here in Houston, and as you walked into the doors you feel the Holy Spirits presence, and the Love of Christ, and be taught the meat of the word. Maybe where you're at those kind of Churches are plentiful, not here, they're mostly all business.

Sreeram, So what you're saying is, just go to any church, they're all good, and just stick with that church for a while, it will eventually fit all your needs to grow in the word of God? This is the way I read it, unless you would like to elaborate a bit more. In my "opinion" if you're not being fed the word, it's time to search for a place to be fed, and in Houston, they're thousands of churches, I can get fed better on YouTube and by some of the pastors here on SI, on both I've found some wonderful pastors that feed their flock the meat of the word.

Now here what I don't like or approve of, they're some folks that think because they're going to a church building, they're going to try and put you under condemnation, by telling you that you should be in church. If the church/churches were all that great, why did God speak about the judgement coming in Revelation's?

I believe God is withdrawing His hand of protection from the church in judgment, but the church hasn't realized it yet. It's a well-known fact that there are as many divorces today within the church as outside it. The pleasures and values of most people in the church are not much different from other people's, either. The line that once distinguished Christians from non-Christians has become severely blurred. Why has God not judged?

When God described in Deuteronomy the judgments He would bring if Israel disobeyed Him, the scattering of families was His final judgment. Because of America's high divorce rate, both inside and outside the church, children are being torn away from their families and being torn apart emotionally. Yet the church seems to be mostly unaware that today's events may be part of God's judgment on the church in America.

The main problem is not so much secularism as it is the secularization of the church. The salt is losing its savor, the purity of the church has been compromised, and we've lost sight of the value of a pure church. Persecution always cleanses and purifies the church wherever it occurs, but we don't have to wait for persecution. We can repent now for violating God's Word, bringing the world's values into the church, and failing to obey God's voice.

This is the kind of church I'm looking for, one that follows this scripture, very few of them do this kind of teaching today.

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. ~2 Timothy 3:16-17

Dear Bro.,
I know this is not the local church that you ask about, but this, I believe will give you as it has given me meat/food/Bread for today,.. to suffice until,...
...........
The Saturday morning Bible Study, ..Bro Gbile Akanni

https://youtube.com/watch?v=awarG3dBY6s&feature=share

I do believe it will bless you,
............
elizabeth

Thank you elizabeth, I appreciate it.

In my "opinion" if you're not being fed the word, it's time to search for a place to be fed, and in Houston, they're thousands of churches, I can get fed better on YouTube and by some of the pastors here on SI, on both I've found some wonderful pastors that feed their flock the meat of the word.

This is where we differ mainly. The fundamental purpose of being part of a Church is NOT to hear a great word. That we can all receive online these days, as you have pointed out rightly. The fundamental purpose is to fellowship with like minded believers. By likeminded I mean those who want to follow the Lord. Anyone who says he loves the Lord Jesus will also have a thirst to fellowship with believers who love him. Not in some online way but in real method of knowing them, encouraging them and then being encouraged, meeting with them regularly, breaking bread with them. Jesus himself longed to be with believers during his earthly stay. How much more should we be!

I have lived in Texas and I was part of building a fellowship with 3 other families. Today they have many families meeting together as a Church. But apart from that I also searched for local Bible studies. I attended those at homes, Church buildings etc. My thirst was always to find like minded believers who wanted to follow the Lord wholeheartedly. Texas has lot of such small groups who meet and discuss the word of the Lord.

Sreeram, So what you're saying is, just go to any church, they're all good, and just stick with that church for a while, it will eventually fit all your needs to grow in the word of God?

To me Church is not a building or a place with a powerful sermon. It is a body of Believers as mentioned in the Bible. A body whose head is Christ himself not a pastor who can give a powerful sermon! What is the use of a pastor like those in SI who can give a powerful sermon if there is no body of believers to fellowship with? That is not a Church Biblically.

By our love for fellow believers we will be known as disciple of Jesus(John 13:35). It is not by hearing a powerful sermon sitting alone before a computer. We need to get out and fellowship with believers.

I too hear a lot of sermons and I too believe I speak God's word powerfully in my Church. But that is not the main reason why I am part of a Church (a local body of believers). When 2 or more gather in Jesus name with one mind then Jesus is in their midst. So it is the people we gather with are more important than a powerful message. Jesus never said he is in the midst of a powerful sermon!

I am much more younger than you, almost less than half your age. I would encourage you to search for believers to fellowship with. Pray that God will lead you to those who follow Christ wholeheartedly. It is the right place to start.

The danger of places like SI, youtube where you can listen to serious good message is, they separate people from the need for fellowship with like minded believers. While I appreciate the availability of such powerful sermons online, we should not miss the body of believers (the Church).

Sreeram said: But that is not the main reason why I am part of a Church (a local body of believers). When 2 or more gather in Jesus name with one mind then Jesus is in their midst. So it is the people we gather with are more important than a powerful message.

In the very beginning, the concept of "church" was also highly in relation to "house churches" before solidifying into structures for the sole intention of worship, fellowship, and edification, or "churches" as we know it. This is important to note because the idea of going to the house church would have been fairly normal. Family and friends would be there, and they’d come together to learn about the Faith.

God wants to be worshiped by true worshippers. True worshippers worship in spirit and truth because they are the ones who don’t need a nice sanctuary or nice building to worship their God. They don’t need a praise team or a good singing choir to get them pumped up to worship. They don’t need some robe laden preacher, with fake armor-bearers and false words for itchy ears, to motivate them to hear from the Lord. True worshippers are those who are not ashamed to tell the world their personal story about, "If it had not been for the Lord on my side, where would I be.”

Jesus said God is looking for true worshippers who worship in spirit and truth. Notice, God is not looking for good Baptists, good Methodists, good Catholics, etc. God is not looking for church members. God is not looking for church folk who praise and worship their pastors. God is not looking for worshippers who go to church because they enjoy and can relate to how a particular church does things in worship. God is not looking for worshippers, who go to certain churches because it is easy for them to pretend and fool everybody. God is not looking for worshippers who come to church because of the choir, because of the members or because of the pastor.

Sreeram, it's ok to agree to disagree, if you and I thought exactly alike, we could not be in God's personal will for our life. God's personal will for my life, is to have a home fellowship, unless He's told you something different, if so, please let me know. I would be very careful in telling someone God spoke to me and told me what God's will for someone else's life is.

Hopefully one day, us believers will become more focused on bringing in the lost sheep, by being salt and light, and not spending so much time on trying to put our Brothers and Sisters in Christ, under condemnation. Perfect example, I started a thread to ask a question, "Will the walls of denomination be torn down?" And now this thread has been turned into a personal attack on the way I worship. I've heard it said many times, "You Haven't Ever Been Beat Up, Until You've Been Beat Up By A Christian" How true.

So the other 2 or 3 people that gather at my home with me to Home Church on Sunday's, are not the same as the 2 or more that gather in a Church Building? Of course it’s always good to assemble with your Christian Brothers and Sisters. Also, remember, you don’t "go” to church. Remember that we are the church. The church is not a physical building, a denomination or a church movement.

where did I ever say Church is a building? You have a preconceived understanding of what I am trying to say and then never cared to read me.

All I am trying to say is simple. Every born again believer will have a desire to be part of a body of believers (not a building). This body of believers is the Church whose head is Christ. Christ is not the head of a single person but a body of believers.

God wants to be worshiped by true worshippers. True worshippers worship in spirit and truth because they are the ones who don’t need a nice sanctuary or nice building to worship their God. They don’t need a praise team or a good singing choir to get them pumped up to worship. They don’t need some robe laden preacher, with fake armor-bearers and false words for itchy ears, to motivate them to hear from the Lord.

Where did I ever say I that a Church should have these things? Please quote me on that before setting up a perfect strawman argument!

I am myself part of a home fellowship but it is a body of believers. We do not have a building but it does not matter if we have one. We do not have a pastor nor a worship team like you quoted! But we have a committed fellowship of believers. We have Christ in our midst when we faithfully gather every week. We do not have any pattern that you associate with a Church.

I started a thread to ask a question, "Will the walls of denomination be torn down?" And now this thread has been turned into a personal attack on the way I worship.

This thread is still on track. There is no personal attack on anyone. If my posts convicted anyone then it is their own conscience convicting them via the scriptures I have posted. It is called Godly sorrow.
When one asks the question whether denominations will be torn down then it means that God hates denominations. But I quoted a scripture to prove that denominations are far better than people who are not part of a body of believers (fellowship or a Church). I believe such lonely people hurt God's heart far more than denominations.

If God has to torn down denominations because they are corrupt, God has to first raise up the right Church. Are we contributing towards it? If we are not contributing towards building of a true local Church then what authority do we have to point figures at denominations? At least the denominations are doing something for the Lord!

In all my post I mentioned it as "we", not pointing figures at anyone. WE also includes me. God wants all of us to be part of building his local Church.

Sreeram said: If my posts convicted anyone then it is their own conscience convicting them via the scriptures I have posted. It is called Godly sorrow.

Sreeram said: Where did I ever say I that a Church should have these things? Please quote me on that before setting up a perfect strawman argument!

I'm going to bow out of this thread, you seem to be doing a great job of knowing everything, so I would have nothing else to offer, have a wonderful day, unless you have other plans.

Hi all,

This is my fault. I was a little too sharp in some of my recent posts. I apologize to Sreeram. Lets put all this behind us and move on.

Thank you Platy. Honestly I do not believe it is anyone's fault. I understand people have different understanding of Church. To someone Church is a building, to another it is place where they can listen to sermons etc. When I post that God desires all of us to build his Church in our locality, people can see it in different sense.

It is hard for me to erase the preconceived notion on Church that anyone has. Also people are often attacked that they do not go to any building dedicated as a Church, so when I post on need for Church, it immediately rubs their past wounds from such accusations. They become very defensive!

I am not here to accuse anyone. I am not interested to know if anyone is part of a Church or not. I am here to post the truth plainly.

Personally to me to be committed to a body of believers has helped me to grow with respect to salvation. An unmarried man may think that he will be a great husband but only when he is married he sees how big a failure here is and how difficult it is to be the man of a household. Same way only when we fellowship with a body of believers in a committed way, we will see our own inner need for growth in Christ Jesus. If we are a lone Christian not in a committed relationship, we will only have a false understanding of our own need for salvation.

Just sitting alone and hearing sermons online will not result in the ultimate purpose of God. We will always fall short of God's purpose. God never intended any believer to be like that. He is grieved by such so called believers.

This came to mind-
In many words, sin is not absent.

Please note that you hijacked Mr Bill’s thread which related do denominational walls. Even after he voiced his discouragement, you just ramble on.

Mr Bill, I can offer you this great truth-
Matthew 16:18
King James Bible
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Blessings

I think it is not good to be too hung up on denominations. They are just a fact of life, and I think only God can and will one way tear them down. We hear the shout of zealous
brothers protesting: Lord, Wilt thou then that we go and gather [the tares)?
But the Lord said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

If you try to do it by human effort, you will actually pull out the wheat with the tares, and cause collateral damage.

We are always happy for the walls of others to be torn down, how about our own?

Sometimes it is not even doctrinal matters, but length of skirts, Christmas, organ or guitar, pastors pay, vaczine, and other trifles.

Let it be the work of the Spirit, the only One who can bring us to the Unity in Christ.

I have been to many churches of various denominations. I have had bad church in many places, even there I always met a few starved hungry dear souls among a mass of nominal Christians, sticking it out for want of elsewhere to go. I have set under sound, but dead teaching. I have been in churches with whacky theology but great hospitality. I have seen churches great in prayer, great in outreach to the outcast, rich in sending out, great in song, but all may be lacking here or there.

I have seen beauty and freshness of the Spirit among conservative Russian Baptists founded by American Baptists in the 1920s, British Charismatic, Southafrican Pentecostal Brethren, German Baptists, A Chinese Church founded by Swiss Missionaries, a Hong Kong crowded home in the the Walled City, house groups and prayer retreats in Taiwan, and my most powerful eperience ever was in the Philippines back in 84, when a 5 feet tall pastor preached from Acts 8 where I had an open vision about the wrath of God.

All of them sort of belong to denominations, vary greatly in practise and emphasis and style, perhaps just because their founders were baptist or methodist or Lutheran missionaries from somewhere where people cared about the lost.

What I found is, though they do things wrong here and there, they may excel in other ways and virtues.

I can reject a lot of their baggage but also can learn a lot from them.

Actually the worst churches are those who say they got everything right and everyone else got it wrong. I love it when churches say, we are thankful for what we have but there is so much more we need to learn.

You may see them as walls, but they also can be like gemstones of differnt color and sparkle once Gods light shines on them.

We are always happy for the walls of others to be torn down, how about our own?

I have had bad church in many places, even there I always met a few starved hungry dear souls among a mass of nominal Christians, sticking it out for want of elsewhere to go.

I agree with your post.

Are we willing to tear down our own walls that prevent us from meeting with these hungry souls? Or we just blaming the walls of denominations to justify our lonely life of not fellowshipping with other believers? Often those who point fingers at denominations are those who do nothing at all to meet with these hungry souls.

If I asked these questions, I am accused of hijacking the thread!

I just wanted to come back to ask everyone that has replied to this thread, to please, please go back to my original question and reread it. I don't know how or why it got off track/topic, to where it seemed like some thought I didn't belong to a Church, and seemingly attacked me "this is how I felt” thinking my question was to draw folks out of the church. For the record I do belong to a Home Church, if you don't feel like a Home Church qualifies "in your world" for a church, can't we just agree to disagree?

The really sad part is, some tried to put me under condemnation about attending a church, some went as far as making posts to justify why we all needed to be in a church, my original post had nothing to do with this, it only asked "will the walls of denominations will be torn down?” What does this particular question have to do with discouraging folks to leave the church, or not go to church? Again, I asked a simple question, and some took it to a whole new level, of trying to justify why folks should be in a church, how on earth did we get this far off track/topic?

It seems that these days when "some” Christians bicker they exaggerate passion into a legalistic belief and prosperity into a lukewarm belief. I do appreciate all the replies to my "original” question, to be honest, this is why I don’t post here much anymore, some just seem to want to air out their opinions on most all threads, rather than trying to understand the original posters questions, and keep the thread/threads constructive and "ON TOPIC".

I really wished Greg would do like a lot of other forums I belong to, warn everyone to please stay "ON TOPIC", if he or the other mods would do this, SI would be a more constructive place to come to and post, as I really only mostly read anymore, due to some many threads going off topic, and my thread pretty much proves this.

"I really wished Greg would do like a lot of other forums I belong to, warn everyone to please stay "ON TOPIC", if he or the other mods would do this, SI would be a more constructive place to come to and post, as I really only mostly read anymore, due to some many threads going off topic, and my thread pretty much proves this."

You are so right MrBill.
I think the problem is that we are self centered and think our opinions matter most, instead of trying to "build each other up" , respect the posters questions and wishes and keep to the topic !

Blessings, Markus

Hi,
Going back to the original post and after thinking about "the walls" I would like to add this.
The walls wont matter in the end as we will (all who are in Christ) come out from behind the walls and as I said before go out to the wilderness.Anyone who trys to bring out denominational rules and structures will be likened to the Pharisees or brood of vipers who tried to bring their "walls" or "rules" or "control mechanisms" with them when they saw that their congregations were going out to hear the true preaching,
urs staff

The Church throughout the world is supposed to be a "spiritual” body united in ONE faith. Denominations are not of the Lord they were created by Satan to keep the church divided so it is ineffective in the spiritual warfare against the Devil and his demons, "united we stand, divided we fall.”

Hi Bill,
I think thats a very fair comment to make.The reason that denominations wont openly agree with your statement may be that they feel that if they do openly agree they may be asked to do something about it.The denomination will then be between a rock and a hard place and its easier just to let it slide, urs staff