My Healing Testimony

A portion of my favorite scriptures is Proverbs 4:20-23 because I have experiences with it. It talks about God's word being our medicine, remedy, healing, and cure that's what the word health is translated as. Just this week I had a toothache that was so bad I could hardly chew, I couldn't even chew a banana without pain. But, what did I do I started speaking the word (taking God's medicine). I started taking in God's word, By his stripes I am healed Isa 53:5/Jesus carried my pains Isa 53:4/Through the blood of Jesus I am redeemed from toothache Eph. 1:7. And by the next day when I got up I could chew as normal, that was not just natural that I know. But, that's what the word says in Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 1. To believe the word you have to know what the word says. 2. The word confession means-to say the same thing. 3. Salvation means-healing, deliverance, preservation, wholeness.

Notice, that you confess unto salvation so you are going to have to be saying something. Romans 3:3,4 says "Let God be true(found true) but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. Well, Jesus said, "For by thy words thou shalt be justified(free), and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. The way God will be found true for you is by putting your faith in his word. Jesus said in John 8:32 that the truth would make you free. Well, God's word is the truth Jesus was referring to. John 17:17 Jesus said, "Thy word is truth." We have to learn the difference between fact and truth. What's the difference? Fact is basically something that exists, or is present in reality. Hence, these are things that can be seen visually, and these are the things that can actually be verified. It is not just something that you believe, but rather these are more or less the things that can be observed empirically, or by the senses. So, facts can be seen and heard, as well as proven by the other senses.

But truth can be described as the true state of a certain matter. So, God says whatever your flesh or your senses might be telling you that might be a fact, but what God says is the truth of the matter. That's why 1 Corinthians 5:7 says, For we walk by faith, not by sight. Walking by sight you walk by facts and walking by faith is walking by truth, God's word. I chose to walk by God's truth and not my flesh's facts. And I found God to be true and my flesh a liar. God said in Isa. 55:11 that his word shall not return to him void, but it shall accomplish that which He pleases and prosper in the thing whereto He sent it. His word returns to him when you speak it.

It is not God's will that any should perish. And I wouldn't want to end this article without giving someone the opportunity to receive Jesus as their Lord and Savior. It's very easy just pray: Dear God- I know I have sinned and I now turn from them and I invite Jesus to come into my heart (Revelation 3:20). He died for my sins and you have raised him from the dead and I now confess that Jesus is my Lord and Savior (Romans 10:9,10). I thank you for saving me, Amen

You still might want to get that tooth checked out by a dentist.

"A portion of my favorite scriptures is Proverbs 4:20-23 because I have experiences with it. It talks about God's word being our medicine, remedy, healing, and cure that's what the word health is translated as. "

Amen Brother! Thank you for your testimony.
I could give you testimonies also that God’s
Word is medicine to all of our flesh. F. F. Bosworth
wrote an excellent book "Christ the Healer.” Many
people have been healed by applying The principles
and healing scriptures in this book. Derek Prince gives
his own testimony of healing in "God’s Medicine Bottle.”

1Bless the Lord, O my soul;
And all that is within me, bless His holy name!
2Bless the Lord, O my soul,
And forget not all His benefits:
3Who forgives all your iniquities,
WHO HEALS ALL YOUR DISEASES,
4Who redeems your life from destruction, (Psalm 103: 1-4)

https://youtu.be/tUtXPrnY2iw

"Positive Confession" or "Word Of Faith" theology has its origins in New Thought (think Christian Science, which has its roots in Hinduism and the occult), and is an attempt to blend christian teachings with non christian teachings. The early proponents of this theology were people like Mary Baker Eddy, Phineas Quimby, and William Branham (all confirmed heretics.) F.F. Bosworth was a friend of Branham (who said that the Trinity was a demonic doctrine.)

Please be careful about which teachers you are listening to. Keith Green was raised as a christian scientist and he said he witnessed many healings when he attended their church.

Thank you AbideinHim I'm glad you got something out of it. And thank you for the youtube link, I'll check it out. God Bless!

Praise God for the toothache being healed! Some might say, "Ah it's just a toothache!" When your whole head hurts, it's not "just a toothache!" It's the so-called small things God encourages us with that lead to the larger things!! Be encouraged!

Many years ago, I adopted a dog from the pound and she was so sick. I would hold her and pray for her. I never took her to the vet and then about a month afterwards, she was healed! I told my pastor and he laughed and said, "I started with animals too! Keep up the faithful work."

Keep up the faithful work, FranklinB!!

Brother Nigel
,
I know that you are concerned brother with false teaching and heresy, but putting faith in the word of God And claiming the promises of God for your healing is sound doctrine. Jesus gave us Mark 11:23,24, and many believers have believed the words of Jesus, and have seen their mountains removed, whether it be sickness and disease, an evil spirit, or something that was blocking their spiritual growth.

Derek Prince taught on faith and confession, and he laid a sound scriptural foundation in all of his teachings. So we are instructed in the Word of God to "prove all things, and hold fast to that which is good.” (1 Thessalonians 5.21)

Mike- I agree with everything you typed.

However, Franklin should still get the tooth checked by a dentist.

You didn't even try and understand what Nigel was saying.
We are just going round in circles

Healing is not part of the atonement.
That's a false Gospel, that's how serious it is .
Now choose this day what you want to believe !

"Healing is not part of the atonement.
That's a false Gospel, that's how serious it is .
Now choose this day what you want to believe !"

If you believe that Isaiah 53 is the Word of God, it is very easy to see that healing is in the atonement. That is the good news of the gospel. Not only did Jesus bear our sins on the cross, but He bore our sickness and disease.

https://youtu.be/R3xO-86nKvE

Brother,

If you really want to know the truth about healing being in the atonement. Read "Christ the Healer" by F.F. Bosworth. Nothing but the Word that shows that without a doubt that healing is definetly in the atonement.

I have no problem with divine healing. I have experienced it myself. Franklin always posts about healing and nothing else, and presents it as something we are entitled to. I have challenged him about it before.
I am concerned when somebody exclusively posts about one topic only, as if Christ only came to heal. This can lead to a distorted and self-centred view of Christ. It is neither healthy nor balanced. Much of what he posted is textbook Word of faith. It is not all wrong, but it is always dangerous to go off on a tangent, because the main thing gets out of sight.

"Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted." (Isaiah 53:4)

2483. griefs - sicknesses - (Heb) choliy; malady,
anxiety, calamity:-disease, grief, (is) sick
(-ness).

When Isaiah penned this verse, the definition of the word choliy had been unchanged since the days of Moses.

4341. sorrows - pains - (Heb.) makob; anguish or (fig.) affliction: - grief, pain sorrow.

Surely He has borne our sicknesses, malady, anxiety, calamities, diseases, and griefs, and borne our pains, anguish, affliction, grief, pain, and sorrow.

Amen David!

.....................................................
"Surely our sicknesses he hath borne, And our pains -- he hath carried them, And we -- we have esteemed him plagued, Smitten of God, and afflicted.”

(Isaiah 53:4)
Young’s Literal Translation

Is healing in the atonement? First of all, what does that question even mean? Well, we’re talking about the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ, his death on the cross that was an atonement, and we often hear the biblical idea that Jesus’s death is the atonement for our sins. That is, it’s the payment for our sins. It made possible the forgiveness of our sins. And that’s universally believed by all true Christians, that Jesus is the sacrifice that atoned for our sins.

But I’m posing the question today, does Jesus’s atoning sacrifice do more for us, provide more for us potentially, at least anyways then the forgiveness of our sins? And specifically does that atoning sacrifice, Jesus’s amazing, incredible loving, compassionate death on the cross for us, does that make provision for physical healing in our bodies?

Now, before we try to answer that question, let’s think of the ramifications of that. If Jesus’s sacrifice does somehow make provision for healing in our bodies, well that would mean that if we’re sick, there’s a potential that we could be healthy and made well. Right? Sure. And it’s interesting to me that a lot of folks will vehemently object to the idea or even the suggestion of the idea that Jesus’s atonement and his sacrifice makes provision for healing in our bodies when in fact everybody, every Christian universally agrees that Jesus’s atonement, provides not only forgiveness of sins, but everything. Everything that any Christian enjoys or ever will enjoy, including eternal life. Including heaven. Right, right. Including new bodies. Right, right.

So it’s so interesting that we’ll stand strong theologically that Jesus’s sacrifice is what makes everything possible. Every blessing that’s possible is made possible through the atoning sacrifice of Christ. It’s not because of our works, it’s because of God’s goodness, his grace and Jesus’s work on the cross. Everything except it doesn’t include healing for our bodies. Even though those same people would have to admit that the Bible is full of the healing benefit.

Can I have an amen out there? Just think for a second about your Bible and ask yourself the general question. Is the Bible have more to say that is kind of pro-healing or does the Bible have more to say about what is kind of anti-healing? Well you don’t have to know your Bible very well to know that the Bible is chock full, stuffed full of stories and promises and miracles of healing that just from cover to cover.

God revealed himself to the Israelites. He said, I’m Jehovah Rapha, the God who heals you. And the Psalmist wrote "Bless the Lord O my soul, let me not forget any of your benefits who forgives all your inequities.” And yikes, what did he say in the next sentence? "Who heals all your diseases?”

God told Israel, "If you obey me, I’ll take sickness out of your midst and fulfill the number of your days.” So they had a covenant that included healing contingent upon obedience. Then the son of God shows up on the scene. The God Of the old covenant shows up in the new Testament. And what is he doing? Oh my goodness. He’s healing people, baskets full of people as it were. His ministry is characterized according to Matthew by three major things: preaching, teaching, and healing.

And again, if you’ve ever read the four gospels, I think I actually counted the verses one time myself, all the verses in the four gospels. And then I counted all those that had something to do with healing or the healing ministry of Jesus. And are you ready for this shocker? One out of every 10 verses in the four gospels has something to do with the healing ministry of Jesus Christ. This is not like something that some obscure subject like some people would make it seem to be, right? Right.

Then you work your way through the New Testament. All the promises. "Is any among you sick?” James asks the whole church. Well what should he do? Let him call for the elders of the church and let them anoint him with oil and so forth. And the prayer of faith will restore the one who is sick. And if he’s committed sins, they will be forgiven him.

So anyway, I’m just trying to lay down a little introduction, a little foundation here, because obviously we’re going to have to go into the next Little Lesson to answer the overriding question. But, oh my goodness, if you’re a Christian, you ought to have some biblical knowledge of healing because your Bible has a lot to say about healing. Your Jesus, your Savior, one-tenth of everything that is revealed about him in the four gospels concerns his healing ministry.

The Jesus that the scripture says is the same yesterday, today and forever. If our Christianity doesn’t have some component of healing, well, something’s wrong.

Okay. All right. I’m going to stop here because I’m out of time, but we’ll do part two in our next little lesson. And we’re going to try to answer that question, is healing in the atonement? We’ll look at what the Bible says and not what some preacher says. Thanks for joining me. Hope to see you next time.”

David Servant

Part 2 - https://youtu.be/9lm0IINlJoE

Mathew 8;14 When Jesus came into Peter’s house, he saw Peter’s mother-in-law lying in bed with a fever. 15 He touched her hand and the fever left her, and she got up and began to wait on him.

16 When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to him, and he drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick. 17 This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah:

"He took up our infirmities
and bore our diseases.”[b](S)............ Matthew is quoting the atonement verse interpreting it quite clearly for us that healing was in the atonement.

I do believe in healing. God is able to heal a toothache (believe me, I know about toothaches! I had all my teeth removed because half of them were rotten from smoking cigarettes and hard drug use for years. I sure would like another set and not have to pay tens of thousands of dollars for implants!), and God can also heal major illness, like when He healed both of my brothers from major illnesses; one had brain and lung cancer, had brain and lung surgery to remove tumors, and also had chemotherapy. Just because my brother got medical attention in no way diminishes God's hand in healing him. My other brother had a heart infection, probably from a dirty hypodermic needle, and nearly died. The hospital staff told me he was "the sickest person in the hospital" at that time; he was in intensive care, had lost 50 pounds and several liters of blood, and had to have his lungs drained of fluid. I know for a fact God answered my pleas for their lives.

Is healing in the atonement? To lump it in with salvation, which is guaranteed to everyone who repents and places their faith in Jesus, is erroneous. Healing is not guaranteed. Paul had his thorn in the flesh, which may have been a physical ailment (2 Corinthians 12:7-9), Trophimus did not receive healing when Paul left him at Miletus (2 Timothy 4:20), and Timothy had a stomach ailment that Paul recommended he take grape juice for (1 Timothy 5:23).

My problem with word of faith theology is it always diminishes and subordinates God, and elevates man. If someone uses their faith and speaks the right word formula, God is bound (almost forced) to do what the person says.

I believe God is absolutely sovereign. If He chooses not to heal someone, He has a good reason for it. I know I've probably mentioned her before, but take Joni Eareckson Tada as an example of someone God chose not to heal because He had a greater purpose. Look at the incredible ministry she has, ministering to the disabled. She herself says she thanks God now for NOT healing her when she asked Him to, and even for allowing her to become quadriplegic in the first place; she says she was very self centered before her accident and probably would never have gotten right with God if she wasn't paralyzed. It would be the height of absurdity for anyone to suggest that she isn't healed because she lacks faith.

Brother Nigel you make two big assumptions and you use them to bolster a belief system. We don't know what the thorn in the flesh was a measanger of Satan quite possibly was a demon that was tormenting Paul with temptation beyond normal harassment. It may or may not be a sickness. Just because Paul left someone sick doesn't mean they did not get healed we have to make a major assumption maybe he did get heald maybe he didn't. Everyone knows that healing doesn't always take place through a miracle but sometimes can take years. The same as deliverance and sinful nature it doesn't get taken away from us by miracle through the new birth or the baptism of the spirit we have to grow in holiness and sanctification and character to become more christ-like. We may hold onto sicknesses and different problems but the idea is we don't give up because the Bible says that he heals all our diseases and forgives all our sins. Who really cares what the word of faith preachers say. What did the prophets say what did the apostles say. One of the apostles said is there anyone sick among you will let them call for the elders of the church and let them pray over them anointing them with oil in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and that prayer of faith will save the sick and the lord will raise him up and if he has committed any sins they will be forgiven of him.. Jesus said according to your faith let It Be done unto you. We according to our faith miss out on certain things and even deep levels of relationship and walking in holiness because we don't believe it's possible. We need to just believe all things are possible like Jesus said. Doesn't hurt us if we believe 4 great things and believe that God can do anything and that he wants to because he said so. May take sometime and we have to wrestle in prayer that's part of what faith is continuing to believe even though what we see is telling us a different story, we live by faith not by sight. You won't Find any vs telling us to think otherwise. We often times love to interpret scripture through our own personal filter of experience and lack when it comes to victory. But there's full power in the blood of the cross, you need not diminish that power by looking at our experience or others experiences.

"Is healing in the atonement? To lump it in with salvation, which is guaranteed to everyone who repents and places their faith in Jesus, is erroneous. Healing is not guaranteed.”

You are right my brother, healing is not guaranteed, and on God’s side, Jesus not only bore our sins, but He also paid the price for our sickness and diseases. The requirement for the believer is faith in Jesus Christ and His Word.

Jesus could do no mighty miracles in His home town because of the unbelief of the people. There are many instances in the Bible where Jesus said "your faith has made you whole.” Or "Be it done unto you according to your faith.”

Not all are saved even though Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, and it is not God’s will that any should perish. So it is unbelief that is keeping many from obtaining the free gift of salvation.

Mike, to clarify my position: God always saves someone when they repent and place their faith in Jesus and His atoning work on the cross. He will not save someone who clings to unbelief. Of course unbelief will hinder salvation, to say otherwise is absurd. God also will not heal anyone if they do not believe He can.

But sometimes God says no to healing someone. He is sovereign and the ultimate decision is up to Him. I trust my Father in heaven. We have to remember that there is a time in everyone's life when they will not be healed, and that is when they die. There comes a point when God gets tired of patching up this old body and takes us home for the ultimate healing, a resurrection body!

Gary, I absolutely believe every word of holy writ; God does heal people today. I gave two instances of Him doing just that in answer to my prayers. My experiences do not hinder me from believing that God can do miracles. I have experienced the supernatural many times, by healings, prophetic words, words of knowledge, visions; at times the presence of God is so strong in my apartment that I am in awed silence.

👍🍷🍞✝️🕎🙏

"If you really want to know the truth about healing being in the atonement. Read..." (a book )
Only God's written Word is truth ! Thankfully I know Scripture and the Gospel well enough so that I can make my own decision what the Atonement and the Gospel are all about.

But Mike I agree what you wrote in another thread:
"... read your bible!
Opinions mean little or nothing when not based on the Word of God."
Good advice for all of us !

"I am concerned when somebody exclusively posts about one topic only, as if Christ only came to heal. This can lead to a distorted and self-centred view of Christ"
Exactly my concern too. Many here seem to have their own main topics, and it is not the Gospel and the finished works of Christ.
Sometimes I pray for you, that you might come to deeper understanding of John 3:16 and those unsearchable riches of Christ. May we all realise more and more that it is all about "Amazing Grace.."
Otherwise we just continue to go round in circles with more unfruitful discussions.

"In Christ alone my hope is found..."

Markus

Franklin: Thank you for your testimony brother. I am always thankful when someone receives healing.

I have received healing in my own physical body more than once. I remember five or more years of having back pain so bad that I was visiting a chiropractor multiple times every month and was in almost constant pain. But God took the pain completely away. It has been now over ten years since I have had any pain whatsoever. The interesting thing is that when I had a CAT scan of my abdomen my back still showed the damage to the discs present, but totally without pain. Interesting sometimes how God works. I totally expected the damage to be reversed, but instead it is simply not effecting me at all.

I say that to say this. I am not sure any of us have totally understood all of the nuances of how God works in physical healing. We live with truths that must be balanced I guess.

Healing is provided in the atoning work of Jesus Christ. Its clear both in Isaiah 53 and in Matthew 8:17. Paul taught about communion that many were sick and died because they had not discerned properly what the broken body was all about...our healing. However, we also know that death works in our physical bodies because of the fall and that, barring Jesus return during our lifetime, we will all eventually die when our bodies quit working. So we have to balance these two truths and it can lead us to all sorts of assumptions and conclusions, most of which are probably not right...including, I am sure, some if not many of mine right?

I would say this as a general statement of what I believe. God is pleased with us when we react in faith to what He has done. A large part of that positive reaction of faith is to declare what He has declared. So I will declare that by His stripes I was healed in the face of any sickness that I might battle. I will proclaim His healing power and desire regardless of what I see in front of my eyes. This is what faith does right? Abraham was praised because he did not doubt but called those things that be not as thought they were.

I believe that God, through the power of the Holy Spirit, has given us as believers authority in these matters if we can only come to the place of believing it, receiving it, and acting on it. For example, I have seen some amazing healings and even a person who had drowned brought back from the dead in this way. "In the name of Jesus, you come back into this body" and the person immediately came back to life and began breathing. But we also balance that with where the other person is at. I once prayed for a man's knee that needed replaced and was in great pain. The pain immediately left and the person was pain free for a period of months. Eventually though the pain returned and ultimately the knee was replaced. This person strongly believes that we should always pray, "If it by thy will." where healing is concerned and I have seen him regularly accept sickness and embrace it as God's will. So I was not going to overcome his own belief in the matter, no matter how strong I felt my faith was.

All of this can, if we are not careful, put us in ditches on either side of the issue. But there are some absolute truths that we can stand on as bedrock. Will we be "healed" to the point of living forever in this present corrupted body? No way! But can we stand in faith and believe God for health and die not being "sick"? I believe yes and I am spending time renewing my mind to what the word of God says about these things so that my faith can be established and fruitful in this area

I guess my perspective anyway.

Good article Travis!

I am thankful that after being saved and filled with the Holy Spirit I attended churches that believed in deliverance and healing.

If you can find any scriptures in the New Testament where Jesus said that it was not the Will of God to heal the sick, then please let me know. Most of the time that I have prayed with people to be healed, it was based on healing scriptures, and receiving healing on the basis of faith.

The only time that I have prayed Lord if it be thy will would be if the person being prayed for was saved, and did not desire to be healed but was ready to be with the Lord.

F. F. BOSWORTH: Internationally known healing evangelist of the early 20th century shared these truths in his book Christ the Healer:

"The greatest barrier to the faith of many seeking bodily healing in our day is the uncertainty in their minds as to it being the will of God to heal all. Nearly everyone knows that God does heal some, but there is much in modern theology that keeps the people from knowing what the Bible clearly teaches ”“ that healing is provided for all. It is impossible to boldly claim by faith a blessing which we are not sure God offers. … If it is God’s will to heal only some of those who need healing, then none have any basis for faith …. Faith must rest on the basis of God’s will. … Appropriating faith is not believing that God can, but that God will. …

"‘The Lord is gracious and full of compassion; slow to anger and of great mercy. The Lord is good to all; and His tender mercies are over all His works.’ (Psalm145:8-9). In the study of God’s compassion, we have, to my mind, a complete revelation of the Lord’s willingness to heal …. During His earthly ministry Jesus was everywhere ‘moved with compassion’ and healed all. To have compassion is to love tenderly, to pity, to show mercy, to be full of eager yearning. God is not anything so much a He is love. … By showing His compassion everywhere in the healing of the sick, Jesus unveiled the compassionate heart of God to the people, and the multitudes came to Him for help. …"

"Hundreds needing healing have come or written to us, saying, concerning their need of deliverance, ‘the Lord is able,’ but their teachings, as well as their lack of teaching, has kept them from knowing that the Lord is willing. How much faith does it take to say ‘the Lord is able’? The devil knows God is able, and he knows He is willing; but he has kept the people from knowing the latter fact. …

"Faith begins where the will of God is known. Appropriating faith is not believing that God can, but that He will.”

(Christ the Healer by F. F. Bosworth, pub. Fleming H. Revell, pp. 40, 62-64, 81)

God’s Will to Heal - FF. Bosworth

Travis- I appreciate your thoughts, especially the part about tacking on "if it be your will” when praying for healing. I won’t do that because it’s a faith killer.

You said this: " Paul taught about communion that many were sick and died because they had not discerned properly what the broken body was all about...our healing.”

How confident are you that this interpretation is correct? I don’t believe I have heard this before and it is obviously not the mainstream interpretation of this scripture.

Healing is provided in the atonement only so much as you are a child of God and you receive blessings from God that might include healing. But to espouse Word of Faith teaching, which is total heresy, claiming that we need to lay hold of it in order to receive it is dangerous.

No one here has proved that healing is provided in the atonement. The NT does not teach it and you can only arrive at that theological conclusion by being informed by an outside source. Word of Faith is gnostic heresy repackaged.

What in the world is happening here that so many play with this strange fire?

Thank you Lysa for taking the time to read this article and for you comment I appreciate it. God Bless!

Thank you Lysa for taking the time to read this article and for you comment I appreciate it. God Bless!

Thank you twayneb for taking the time to read this article. And yes keep declaring God's word.

A. B Simpson wrote the "Gospel of Healing” and on page 17 we read: "Therefore as he has borne our sins, Jesus Christ has also borne away and carried off our sicknesses, yes and even our pains, so that abiding in him we may be fully delivered from both sickness and pain. Thus by his stripes we are healed. Blessed and glorious burden bearer.”

Todd: I always looked at Paul's instructions for communion from, I guess, what I'd call the traditional pentecostal view. We always had a period of soul searching before communion because we were taught that eating and drinking unworthily was all about having unrepentant sin in our lives. But if you simply read what Paul said, you will not see that. It must be read into the text.

In context, Paul is addressing the Corinthian church using communion as something like a big dinner party, a church fellowship. They were not understanding or discerning the significance and importance of what they were doing. The word unworthily means irreverently. Paul is saying, when you partake of communion the way you are partaking, irreverently, not understanding and recognizing the significance of what you are doing, you are bringing yourself under condemnation.

When we partake with understanding, discerning what we are doing, we will realize all that the blood of the new covenant has done for us. We will see that it is the blood of Christ that cleanses us from all sin, and we will appropriate that atonement for ourselves. When we see that it was the body of Christ that was broken for our healing, we will appropriate healing for ourselves, and we won’t be weak, sickly, and suffer early death.

As I was praying about these things, I heard the Lord ask a question in my heart. He said, "Would you tell a person who is about to partake of the bread of communion to search their body for sickness or defect and get it healed or fixed before partaking?” Then He said, "So why would you expect a person to search themselves for unrepented sins before partaking of the blood?”

Then I began to realize, Paul says in Romans 6 that we are cleansed, set free from sin itself. The body of sin has been destroyed in our lives by the blood of Jesus. We are no longer sinners. We have been made righteous. So communion is the recognition and remembrance of the righteousness that we have in Him.

So, if I ever find myself failing and committing an act of sin, I have not, by that act, been made unrighteous. What I sometimes do is grab communion elements, go to my back yard, and fellowship with the Lord. I raise that cup and give thanks that I have been forgiven and I recognize that this act too is taken care of by the blood of Jesus. In that act of taking communion there is a repentance in my heart and a desire to change. Having been born again and knowing you are made righteous always brings a desire for holiness. I don’t need to soul search in order to be worthy of the cup. That is not what Paul was saying at all. Eating and drinking unworthily means doing it as some form of ritual and not recognizing the power that it represents.

Anyway, that is what God showed me.

Thanks for for explanation Travis.

From Drifter: Mary Baker Eddy, Phineas Quimby, and William Branham (all confirmed heretics.)

From Drifter: F.F. Bosworth was a friend of Branham (who said that the Trinity was a demonic doctrine.)

Thank you, Nigel.

Todd:
I just reread your question and I might have skipped over something. Mark and Peter both quoted Isaiah 53:4-5 and gave us some commentary on them.

Mark 8:17, 1 Peter 2:24

I find it really interesting that Mark interprets the words used by Isaiah in 53:4 in terms of physical healing, infirmities and sicknesses, and that the wounds to the physical body are tied to being healed. We also know that without sin, sickness, disease, and death would not exist. They area all a result of sin, from which we have now been set free if we have submitted ourselves to God and been born again. So the price was paid for both our salvation and our healing.

I know there is debate about the atonement. I would lay this out there. My salvation is not complete yet. My spirit has been made righteous and perfected forever. But my soul (mind, will, emotions if you will) are not yet "saved". I still battle with the flesh as all men do. We could draw a parallel. There will come a day when I am completely saved, meaning that my soul and my body will also be perfected forever. But that day will come only when this life is done. In the same way that my salvation is both complete and still not completed, my healing is both complete and still not complete. I live in a body that is not glorified and that body is still effected by the lingering results of sin in this Earth. The body will die ultimately. We cannot change that. But, there is physical healing that has been paid for and I can appropriate that healing. Similarly to the way my mind, will, and emotions are transformed (transfigured in Rom 12) into His image as my mind is renewed in Him, my body can be healed as I renew my mind to the truth of healing and learn to trust Him in that area of my life.

Maybe that helps with understanding the perspective I am coming from. Nigel, maybe that helps with what I mean when I say healing is in the atonement. You might not agree, but that may help you to see where I am coming from nonetheless.

Thanks Travis - just FYI you had a slip of the pen and wrote Mark when you meant Matthew.

I am on the fence about the atonement issue. I have wavered back and forth for years. My best friend and most Christ-like man I know believes healing is in the atonement.

I am not sure how different it is to say that "physical healing is part of the atonement” versus "the default inclination of Jesus is to heal.” I tend toward the latter of these two options. I say this because it is obvious that Jesus wanted to physically heal folks and obviously did so on a regular basis. So when I pray for someone to be healed, I can have confidence that Jesus, if physically present, would want to heal the person. My faith is strong in this regard, which is why I never ever tack on "if it be Your will” when praying for physical healing. My preference is to command sickness to leave by the authority vested in me by the Lord, as opposed to simply praying for healing. The Apostles seemed to command healing vs simply praying. "In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, walk.” Acts 3:6.

Mary Baker Eddy did not believe in the Trinity and viewed Jesus as "just a man." She said that the material world was evil and that the spiritual world was good (classic Gnosticism.) She taught that one could be healed by thinking positive thoughts, and that if you weren't, you must have been thinking wrong thoughts. She taught that her method always worked if applied properly (sound familiar?)

"In the 24th edition of Science and Health, up to the 33rd edition, Eddy admitted the harmony between Vedanta philosophy and Christian Science. She also quoted certain passages from an English translation of the Bhagavad Gita, but they were later removed. According to Gill, in the 1891 revision Eddy removed from her book all the references to Eastern religions which her editor, Reverend James Henry Wiggin, had introduced. On this issue Swami Abhedananda wrote:
'Mrs. Eddy quoted certain passages from the English edition of the Bhagavad-Gita, but unfortunately, for some reason, those passages of the Gita were omitted in the 34th edition of the book, Science and Health ... if we closely study Mrs. Eddy's book, we find that Mrs. Eddy has incorporated in her book most of the salient features of Vedanta philosophy, but she denied the debt flatly.'" (From Wikipedia)

Phineas P. Quimby lived around the same time as Mary Baker Eddy and knew her quite well. He used hypnosis and mesmerism to heal people, and taught the same "positive thought" ideas.

William Branham (looked up to by Bill Johnson and many NAR leaders, so much so that they say they have his "mantle") denied the Trinity, saying it was "of the devil", and held to modalism, viz., that God is not one God in three persons, but three manifestations. If you believe that, you ain't christian; it's not negotiable. Here is a link to him saying it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYPtHJC37jY

"Fred Francis Bosworth (1877-1958) was a "Faith Healer" and Pentecostal evangelist who toured with William Branham from the beginning of Branham's ministry as his campaign manager." (From https://william-branham.org/site/research/people/f._f._bosworth)

I highly recommend reading "Another Gospel" by D. R. McConnell, it goes into more detail about how the word of faith movement came into being.

Neigel, I don’t take any pleasure in having to disagree with you all the time. William Branham was a prophet of God and had a calling on his life as a prophet, in which he operated supernaturally with many signs and wonders. He was a godly man, a humble man, never seeking fame or riches, and he was part of the healing revival in the 1940s and ministered with many men that were part of that great revival, in which many miracles signs and wonders occured.

It is true that he did get off on some of his teaching in his latter years.

As far as F. F. Bosworth is concerned how does his association with William Branham make him a heretic?

Bosworth ministered in many of Branham’s meetings. he would teach in the morning meetings and Branham would ministering the in the night meetings.

There are many things said on these forums concerning true men of God that are only half truths, and most of this information has been collected from heresy hunter websites.
To be fair it would be wonderful if before calling somebody a heretic they would do research on their entire life and ministry.

Mike
your opinions and posts are not the standard on this forum - God's Word is.
We all have our own responsibility before God to do our own research and come to our own conclusions what the truth is and who is a heretic.
On day we will all be judged by our Almighty God and not by the standard and opinions of this forum.
The truth of the Gospel is paramount, so I urge everyone, do your own research, pray, seek God, seek godly Pastors etc

What I have discovered is that no matter how much research I do, an even keeled, biblical evaluation on those who teach false doctrine is never enough to convince anyone to move on their position.

Hear is a website that is not a "Heresy Hunter” website.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Branhamism.html

Todd, what do you make of the Hebrew definitions of the words "griefs" and "sorrows"? See my former post in this thread.

"Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows"...
(Isaiah 53:4)

Thank you. Blessings.

Hello David- good question. Jesus died for our soul sickness and injury resulting from sin. Physical weakness and sickness may be the end result of the fall, but Jesus died for the cause, not the result.

havok, I agree...
'Flesh and blood don't reveal Gospel truth...'( paraphrased )
This is a spiritual battle and it is paramount that we pray, seek God, read his Word, seek godly Pastors etc

"Mike
your opinions and posts are not the standard on this forum - God's Word is."

Amen Brother! I have missed it before and I am open to correction.

I have done lot of reading pro and con on William Branham, and until the Lord shows me different I conclude that he was truly called of God, had true giftings, but did get into erroneous teaching and doctrine in the latter part of his ministry.

I also place the Word of God as the final authority. We need to hear what the teacher of the Church is saying, "the Holy Spirit" who was sent to lead us and guide us into all truth.

Mike,

This is why the Doctrine entitled Perseverance of the Saints is so important. He who endures to the end will be saved. Branham did not endure to the end, demonstrating his lack of true conversion. He claimed to be the final prophet, when Hebrews 1 clearly relegates that to Christ, who had the final prophetic Word in the book of Revelation.

You should go look at his gravestone. He claims to be the angel of the church of Laodicea.

Drifter wrote: "Fred Francis Bosworth (1877-1958) was a "Faith Healer" and Pentecostal evangelist who toured with William Branham from the beginning of Branham's ministry as his campaign manager." (From https://william-branham.org/site/research/people/f._f._bosworth)

I highly recommend reading "Another Gospel" by D. R. McConnell, it goes into more detail about how the word of faith movement came into being.

I did a search on the FF Bosworth page with the link you provided (above) but did not find anything on the "trinity." I don't get bent out of shape about who doesn't believe in the trinity or who does! I let God handle it!!

To be honest, I'm probably not going to read the book, Another Gospel. Because Nigel, personally I believe in healing and I believe in speaking what the Holy Spirit gives me. I'm not afraid of being wrong, if I do hear Him wrong. I am a work in progress.

Men (and women) are just human beings, they are not perfect whether they be a just-saved-person trying to find their way or they are a 'prophet' or they are in the WoF movement. We are ALL human and we make mistakes and we repent but no one seems to put our repentance and realignment in the history books, just document the mistakes.

And to just add, Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Who is to know who is going to be held accountable for their books against the brethren. It is something to think about, brother.

God bless,
Lisa

/Jesus died for our soul sickness and injury resulting from sin. Physical weakness and sickness may be the end result of the fall, but Jesus died for the cause, not the result./

Well bro, you say he died for our soul sickness and injury RESULTING from sin but then say Jesus died for the cause, not the RESULT. Our soul sickness in then not the result of sin.

The Hebrew word for iniquity is avon.

'All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned, every one, to his own way, and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all. (Isaiah 53:6)

It is important to understand that the word avon means not merely rebellion, but all the evil consequences of rebellion, the punishment of rebellion and all that rebellion brings on those who are guilty. Much of that sounds like the RESULT of sin which it seems would include sickness.

2483. griefs - sicknesses - (Heb) choliy; malady,
anxiety, calamity:-disease, grief, (is) sick
(-ness).

When Isaiah penned this verse, the definition of the word choliy had been unchanged since the days of Moses.

4341. sorrows - pains - (Heb.) makob; anguish or (fig.) affliction: - grief, pain sorrow.

So Jesus died for our griefs, sicknesses, maladies, anxieties, calamities and diseases and bore our sorrows, pains, anguish, afflictions, griefs, pains, and sorrow. Plus He bore our iniquities and all the evil consequences that result from iniquity. How is physical healing not included in all of the above? The Hebrew language here seems pretty explicit.

Lisa, to be clear, I did not say that F. F. Bosworth denied the Trinity, but that he closely associated with someone who did. This in itself is concerning. Perhaps Bosworth had good theology and a good relationship with God. I don't know. But it would be concerning to me if, say, a professing christian I knew said he was good friends with a Jehovah's Witness and he thought the JW was a solid christian, and didn't care that the JW said Jesus isn't God or that He wasn't physically resurrected. To not listen to the clear and oft repeated warnings against false teachers in the Bible, and the clear and oft repeated commands to use the discernment He has given us, is flat out disobedience.

The Trinity is an essential doctrine, not a side issue like the timing of the rapture or when the millennial reign will happen. If someone denies it, that is clear cut evidence that they are most assuredly not saved.

The essentials of christian doctrine are:
1. One eternal, uncreated God is manifested in three Persons, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

2. Jesus Christ, the second Person of the Trinity, is the only begotten Son of God; He was manifested in the flesh, and born of a virgin.

3. Jesus lived a sinless life, and was crucified, buried, and rose from the dead 3 days later. He ascended to the Father and will return to judge the earth, in the same body He had on earth, at the end of the age.

4. Salvation is by grace through faith in the finished work of Jesus on the cross, and not by works. A person must be born again or they will not see the kingdom of God.

Sowing discord among brethren is definitely an abomination. But we can't lump that into warning others about false teachers and using our discernment. We know people by their fruits. And one of the ways we can tell if they are a false teacher is if THEY SAY IT IN THEIR OWN WORDS. If someone says Jesus was just a man but not God, it doesn't matter how many people have been healed in his ministry: he is a heretic!

"Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God." 1 John 4:2,3

"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also." 1 John 2:22,23

Would we tell the Apostle John to "not judge and be so hard on people"? Would we tell him to not "separate brethren"?

And Lisa, I believe in healing too. I regularly pray for others (and myself sometimes!) to be healed.

David-

To clarify, Jesus died because of our sins, not because of our sore throats.

Sowing discord among brethren is definitely an abomination. But we can't lump that into warning others about false teachers and using our discernment.//////

Let me ask you, Nigel... who is it that decides "who" is a false teacher? I only ask because there are so many different facets of denominations, beliefs, and theologies.

People say they use the Bible to "discern" but when in reality it is their biases that discern the Bible their way.

One or two denominations condemns me as a false teacher because I am a ordained female preacher.

One or two denominations condemns me as a false teacher because I am divorced.

I know that I know that I know I am called by God to minister the gospel of Jesus Christ and Him crucified. I could tell you how I know but you'd probably add me to that book you recommended~!!! LOLOLOL

But I'm trying to ask you brother, WHO decides who is a false teacher? It's not God, that's for sure.

I'm going to let you go brother and not be found arguing anymore.

God bless you in all you do,
Lisa

Well, I thought I might get some comment on the original meanings of the original words in Hebrew - griefs, sorrows, and iniquity. But so be it.

I have nothing against female preachers as long as they don't try to usurp authority from male leadership (1 Timothy 2:12). The Bible clearly teaches that in a divorce, you are living in adultery if you get remarried after cheating on your spouse. I don't know your situation and would extend grace to you. I do know God hates divorce.

The scriptures clearly set out parameters for identifying false teachers. If you're in a leadership position it is your responsibility to protect God's flock. If you're saying that God Himself is unable to identify false teachers, that is very alarming to me.

Todd: Wouldnt be the first slip I've made. What you have just said is a good perspective I think. Jesus would want to heal every person He contacts who was sick. It is His nature.

David-

Not trying to dodge your points. I just think the verses from Is. 53 refer to our spiritual, not physical state.

"Our sins are our sorrows and our griefs (Isa. 53:4), or, as it may be read, our sicknesses and our wounds: the LXX. reads it, our sins; and so the apostle, 1 Pet. 2:24. Our original corruptions are the sickness and disease of the soul, an habitual indisposition; our actual transgressions are the wounds of the soul, which put conscience to pain, if it be not seared and senseless. Or our sins are called our griefs and sorrows because all our griefs and sorrows are owing to our sins and our sins deserve all our griefs and sorrows, even those that are most extreme and everlasting.” Mathew Henry’s Commentary on Is. 53.

David, I will comment on that. You gave the Hebrew meanings, and I agree that the words are very rich in their meaning. But i want to add this. Matthew, in 8:17, offers commentary on Isaiah's meaning of griefs and sorrows. We can debate all day long today, but Matthew, a Hebrew believer who walked with Jesus and had the anointing of apostleship, told us exactly what Isaiah meant. Instead of the Hebrew words for grief and sorrow, we find in Matthew the Greek words that are meant to convey the intended meaning. Matthew used infirmities and sicknesses. Infirmities is astheneia. It is used to describe both physical sickness or weakness and spiritual weakness in the New Testament. The word for sicknesses is the word nosos and it is used 100% of the time in the New Testament to describe physical sickness. So Matthew says that Isaiah is speaking of both our spiritual and physical sicknesses. Both things atoned for in the sacrifice of Christ.

On the trinity, I would have a couple of questions that, if they can be answered, would settle it all. But I don't think they can be answered.

The Bible tells us that God is Spirit. Jesus, the only begotten son of God, was the only part of the Godhead that was made incarnate. Our definition of persons comes from our own experience as separate individuals in separate bodies. Yet God is one in a way we cannot understand and explain. So the question is this. Can anyone explain what "separate persons" actually means in the Spirit realm concerning Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?

Is it possible to, with Biblical certainty, explain the difference between three persons and three manifestations of the same person without bringing into is a refutation of what others have said as the foundation of the explanation?

Does anyone have that understanding of the workings of the Spirit realm?

We don't even know what that looks like. We can't. We don't have the perspective to begin to allow us to do that. We have to suffice it to say this. It appears to us to be three separate persons in a way somewhat similar to any three of us. Yet there is a oneness that cannot be explained by anything we can understand with our intellect. Yet God wants us to grow into that oneness with Him in such a way that we think His thoughts and feel what He feels. To be one with Him in such a way that our actions are as if they were His.

So if you want to talk about some silliness like Jesus was simply the Father come down and when He prayed to the Father, He was really just speaking into the air to Himself for our benefit, then I would wholeheartedly say you lack understanding. That is the level of oneness doctrine that I cannot agree with. But to say that if you don't use the term three persons instead of three manifestations, then, in my opinion, you have tried to assert teaching where man does not have understanding enough to make an assertation.

As to F.F. Bosworth, none of us knew him personally. However, when J.A. Dowie went off of his rocker and Voliva took over, Charles Parham and others were effectively shut out of ministry in Zion City. So Bosworth had meetings in his home in which Parham and John Lake were in attendance. Lake said that he first came to understand what really living a life sanctified to the Lord meant as he participated in prayer meetings in Bosworth's home.

My great grandparents were frequent visitors in Parham's home in Baxter Springs and spend much time with the Parhams. Parham was not perfect, as none of us are, but he was a powerful man of God who changed the course of God's work in the United States forever, and yet he never knew his influence would be so great. He trained Seymour and from both Parham and Seymour came many pentecostal denominations that have and continue to bring millions into the Kingdom.

My understanding from what I have read and know is that Bosworth was a solid man of God.

The problem is that men and women have a platform in the internet to publicly malign other men of God and other ministries that they disagree with, calling them heretics, and spreading every rumor they can get their hands on. After a while these writings proliferate to the point that they quote each other as the source of their fact.

I am reminded of the advice that I read when I first signed up for this forum. Play the ball and not the man. If Bosworth had any doctrines that we think are suspect, let's examine that doctrine in light of what Bosworth is recorded to have said or what he has written. That is the only way to know what he believed. Then we can discuss his teachings and compare them to scripture.

We have done this with healing and atonement. Thank you David for bringing in the Hebrew meanings from Isaiah 53. Thank you Todd for the perspective of Jesus' desire seen from His words and actions regardless of how we see the atonement. Both have given me something to chew on. That is the only truly fruitful discussion we can have.

"We have done this with healing and atonement..."

Yes many of us have examined this topic - and have come to different conclusions. What I read on this forum can be very helpful but it is not my standard and my final authority.

We have no guarantee that we will get a perfect life and a perfect body as Christians.
Otherwise every Christian who dies of cancer or needs to go to a Hospital for treatment wouldn't really be a proper Christian. A false Gospel.
Hebrews 11:39 These were all commended for their faith, yet they did not receive what was promised. 40 God had planned something better for us,
We also might have to wait until after the resurrection.

None of the early Apostles had a "successful" ministry. They hardly made it into the History books.They all died a horrible death.
Those who are "successful" in their ministry and are now admired by men are likely to water down the Gospel and lead people on the broadway.
If we follow them it is mainly for selfish motives.

"If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God". Col 3:1
Nothing else will ever give you more joy and fulfilment.

Again choose this day...the broad way or the narrow way.
Praying that you make wise decisions.

That's all well and good Todd, except I think that, in spite of his fame, Matthew Henry's commentary on this point does not necessarily line up with the definitions of the original words.

That's all. Peace.

"The problem is that men and women have a platform in the internet to publicly malign other men of God and other ministries that they disagree with, calling them heretics, and spreading every rumor they can get their hands on. After a while these writings proliferate to the point that they quote each other as the source of their fact. "

Travis, I appreciate so much what you have shared about these men of faith. They all made mistakes, blunders, and some of them even got into gross error like Dowie and William Branham.

I have had personal friends that were true apostles and prophets and just as I am not perfect and at times have stumbled so did they, as the Word says: "
For we all stumble in many things.”.

Gordon Lindsay who founded Christ for the Nations warned William Branham not to teach, so did Bosworth as did other men of God, but he ignored their warnings.

I have seen men that were once used by God get into gross error and some fell into sin, but they were truly born-again and filled with the spirit, used mightily in bringing many to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, but the enemy was only looking for a small opening in their lives, and some had forgotten their small beginnings, and pride caused them to fall. But many of these men have been disciplined by the Lord, and have repented and have been restored to fellowship.

"But test all things carefully [so you can recognize what is good]. Hold firmly to that which is good.” (1Th. 5:21)

John 14:9 ”“
Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

Comment:
Two Persons, one manifestation.

1 Cor. 8:6 ”“
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

Comment:
Two Persons.
The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father.

John 14:12 ”“
Believe Me that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me……

Comment:
The Father and the Son are One because the Son is in the Father, and the Father is in the Son.

"My great grandparents were frequent visitors in Parham's home in Baxter Springs and spend much time with the Parhams. Parham was not perfect, as none of us are, but he was a powerful man of God who changed the course of God's work in the United States forever, and yet he never knew his influence would be so great. He trained Seymour and from both Parham and Seymour came many pentecostal denominations that have and continue to bring millions into the Kingdom. "

Hi Travis, I thought that you would find this video interesting, concerning the life and ministry of Charles Parham.

https://youtu.be/xsYH0VMqVrU

Let us not try to explain the trinity. We are God's creation, and he is infinitely more than we can explain with our limited knowledge. It is as if you try to conclude from a looking at a pen what machinery was used to make it, or tasting a meal and try to find out all about the person who cooked it.

Thankfully, the Spirit knows the depths of the Godhead and reveals it to us in part. If someone could explain the trinity we would no longer be in awe of God, he would be reduced to a scheme.

Concerning the atonement, my view is that forgiveness of sin, relief from sorrows, pain, shame, sickness and death is included, but not neccessary always effective.

Do all men get saved or healed? The answer is no.
It needs faith and perserverance and still there is an element of Gods sovereignity. Paul healed many but had a thorn in the flesh - whatever that was. Timothy had frequent ailments and was advised to use a simple proven cure, diluted wine.

We are commanded to heal the sick, raise the dead, and cast out demons, especially in an evangelistic context. Let us do it in childlike simplicity and leave the result to God. The son said so by order of the father, let us simply obey. When it happens we have nothing to boast but to give glory to God.
No automatism no rights to claim, just simple faith and obedience.

Last time I met some brothers from the Netherlands, they practise this and see many healings. Prior to that they prayed for maybe hundred people without witnessing any healings. Probably God had to first expose them to humilation before he could trust them with His power.

Regarding the Trinity, besides the reference in 1 John 5:7, there are passages like Matthew 3:16,17 where John the Baptist "saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon Him (Jesus), and lo a voice from heaven saying, 'This is my beloved Son in Whom I am well pleased,'" and Revelation 4 and 5 where John the apostle saw the Father upon the throne in heaven, saw Jesus as the Lamb worthy to open the sealed scroll in His hand, and saw the seven Spirits of God (some translations render this as the sevenfold Spirit of God).

" We are commanded to heal the sick, raise the dead, and cast out demons, especially in an evangelistic context.”

No. No we are not.

At this point it is clear to me that the Word of Faith heresy has so pervaded some of yall’s thinking that you cannot discern what is right and true. You all need to repent and turn back to the Lord, because your are listening to doctrines of demons that destroy men’s lives. The men who bought into to this stuff (Branham) literally fell away from the faith, as described would happen in the Scriptures, but your poor theology forces you to make excuses for them. Reject those men and their errant teachings and be free in Christ! He is our hope, strength, peace, and salvation! Do not keep turning to these lies! Please consider the things we have said. I do not delight in saying this, but I cannot believe what I am reading from some of you!

Havok you are rather testy about this. Get off your Reformed websites and get a breath of fresh air.

You have to deal with the verse: "Heal those who are ill, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received freely give.” Mt. 10:8.

I know what you are going to say, but aren’t there more important things to gripe about than castigating those who want to follow in the footsteps of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ?

Believers Healing the sick and casting out demons is not heresy brother

Todd wrote:
"You have to deal with the verse: "Heal those who are ill, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received freely give.” Mt. 10:8. "

…16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In My namethey will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not harm them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will be made well.”… (Mark 16:17)

Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. (John 14:12)

Luke 10:1 After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go. 9 Heal the sick who are there and tell them, ‘The kingdom of God is near you.’

James 5:14-15 - Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: "And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.”

7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines. (1 Corinthians 12: 7-11)

Stephen was just an ordinary believer and the Lord
used him to do mighty signs and wonders.

"And Stephen, full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and signs among the people.” (Acts 6:8).

TMK,

I do not live in a reformed echo chamber. Not do I go read a bunch of reformed literature, nor do I go to a reformed church. I read the Bible, listen to Wretched Radio, go to church, fellowship with the saints. That is my intake of spiritual stuff. The text you referenced was to the apostles at the time it was written, and is not a command for us.

Word of Faith is heresy. The Bible alone is sufficient to arrive at that conclusion.

Not taking about Word of Faith. Are you a disciple or not? Can’t you even remotely suspect that the words Jesus spoke to his disciples might apply to us? If not, why not?

TMK, I am not even talking to you. You haven't been espousing WoF heresy. And no, it does not apply to us in a prescriptive sense. Just as Jesus being born of a virgin does not apply to us in a prescriptive sense.

This is why reading the Bible rightly is important. Not everything that the Bible says occurs is a command to go do that thing.

Let us not try to explain the trinity. We are God's creation, and he is infinitely more than we can explain with our limited knowledge.

Agree.

The greatness and glory and Supreme Being of God is far beyond our human ability to grasp and comprehend.

But what God has revealed to us about the trinity --- God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit --- is for our understanding and salvation.

2 Tim. 3:16 (ESV) ”“
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

God’s Word, however, should be understood and accepted……………just as it is written.

Thank you havoc
I think this needed to be said. This is a spiritual battle and such demonic influences will destroy many lives.
"be free in Christ! He is our hope, strength, peace, and salvation"
Here is the problem: the true Gospel has been watered down over decades and many false teachings have came in

Scripture is all about Christ and the Gospel.
Paul immediately started to proclaim Christ (Acts 9:19) until the end (Acts 28:30)
In Rome he also had a warning (Rom 16:17 etc)

Therefore stand fast in the Lord (Phil 4:1), May He be exalted
May more people become free in Christ, this is my prayer

I think I'm now leaving this discussion

Markus

@havok20x

Matthew 10:8
New King James Version
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.

BTW, I would be careful about wretchedradio. Todd Friel thinks he is entitled to judge everything and everyone, but disabled commenting on his channel. I agree with a lot of his stuff, but sometimes is just mockery of those who are not in his reformed camp. The tone of his voice gives it away.

For Havok and every Cessationist
that believes that believing in healing makes
you a disciple of Word of Faith teachers:

For some reason if you believe that healing is still for today, available for every Christian, and God wants to use every believer to heal the sick you are classified by some as "word of faith” heretic. I want to set the record straight, I have rejected many word of faith teachings that were not aligned with the word of God. A.B. Simpson was not word of faith, Andrew Murray was not word of faith. Watchman Nee was not word of faith, yet they all believed in healing they all gave testimony of their own personal healings. Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever and from the first century to the present healings and the Charismatic gifts have never ceased.

Jesus gave us a command to go into every nation and make disciples. Jesus gave us a command to observe his teachings. Jesus is the healer and the gospel of Jesus Christ is the power of God for salvation. The word salvation in the Greek is the word Sozo, which means to be saved, to be healed, to be delivered.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is good news for the whole man spirit soul and body.

Mike: Thank you for the video link. I appreciate it.

Mike, I have repeatedly said that I believe in healing. Believing in healing does not necessarily make one a WOF disciple. It's almost like because I reject certain teachers (like Branham) you think I don't believe in healing.

Does anyone on here not believe in healing?

". It's almost like because I reject certain teachers (like Branham) you think I don't believe in healing.”

No Brother, I was not referring to you
in my previous post.

Believing in healing is bot unbiblical. In fact, we ought to pray for these things. That is good and right.

What is not biblical, what is taught in WoF, is that you positively confess Scriptures over yourself to obtain healing, you take the full breadth of a word’s possible meaning in the Hebrew/Greek and apply all the possibilities to a word in a verse (which is bad grammar and we do not even do that in our own language), or you believe that we are commanded to go out and heal the sick, raise the dead, etc when in fact you are neither an apostle nor is that verse directed at you. I have seen God do incredible things. I have known men who have received healing. But in all accounts, it was done by God through the requests of His saints. No one was walking around healing people.

All that being said: WoF is heresy. It is a lie. It is a doctrine of Demons.

If your theology forces you to defend men who fell away from the faith, had bad theology, did not live rightly, all because they had responses to their crusades, then you need to check what fruit you are even examining. Bad theology, especially Christology and Soteriology, are marks of ungodly men””wolves in sheeps clothing.

/you take the full breadth of a word's possible meaning in the Hebrew/Greek and apply all the possibilities to a word in a verse/

Sincerely, can you point to specific teachers and examples in the WOF movement where this is done or has been done? You imply this is a defining part of WOF influence and teaching. Who has done this or does this in WOF? Even a few specific examples would help.

Bill Johnson:
https://youtu.be/9_7g_oGvJ5o

Andrew Womack:
https://www.awmi.net/reading/teaching-articles/healing_niki/

Kenneth Copeland:
https://www.kcm.org/real-help/healing/pray/prayer-health-and-healing?language_content_entity=en-US

All 3 of these men take the word healed in Isaiah 53, apply various meanings from the definition of the word and voila! You get a messed up soteriology that centralizes on physical healing. Do not mind the fact that Isaiah 53 is a prophesy showing a repentant future Israel confessing Christ. Never mind that the context definitely shows that the point of the passage is salvation and not physical healing. Their entire theology hinges on that one word being defined by its possible usage rather than its contextual usage.

Case in point.