The Living Stones of New Jerusalem

Heb. 12:22-24 ”“
But you HAVE COME to Mount Zion and TO THE CITY OF THE LIVING GOD, THE HEAVENLY JERUSALEM, and to myriads of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

COMMENT:
We are the living stones of New Jerusalem!
And the Lord Jesus Christ is the great Corner Stone.

SCRIPTURE:

1 Peter 2:4-6 ”“
And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God, YOU ALSO, AS LIVING STONES, are being BUILT UP AS A SPIRITUAL HOUSE for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For this is contained in Scripture: "Behold, I lay in Zion a choice stone, a precious corner stone……”

Eph. 2:19-22 ”“
So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, having been BUILT ON THE FOUNDATION OF THE APOSTLES AND PROPHETS, CHRIST JESUS HIMSELF BEING THE CORNER STONE, IN WHOM THE WHOLE BUILDING, BEING FITTED TOGETHER, IS GROWING INTO A HOLY TEMPLE IN THE LORD, IN WHOM YOU ALSO ARE BEING BUILT TOGETHER INTO A DWELLING OF GOD IN THE SPIRIT.

Rev. 3:11-12 ”“
He who overcomes, I will make him a PILLAR IN THE TEMPLE OF MY GOD, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, AND THE NAME OF THE CITY OF MY GOD, THE NEW JERUSALEM, WHICH COMES DOWN OUT OF HEAVEN FROM MY GOD, and My new name.

Rev. 19:6-9 ”“
Then I heard something like the voice of a great multitude and like the sound of many waters and like the sound of mighty peals of thunder, saying, "Hallelujah! For the Lord our God, the Almighty, reigns. Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the MARRIAGE OF THE LAMB has come and HIS BRIDE has made herself ready.” It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

Rev. 21 ”“
Then I saw a NEW HEAVEN AND A NEW EARTH; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. And I saw THE HOLY CITY, NEW JERUSALEM, COMING DOWN OUT OF HEAVEN FROM GOD, made ready as A BRIDE ADORNED FOR HER HUSBAND. And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the THE TABERNACLE OF GOD is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them…………
Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and spoke with me, saying, "Come here, I WILL SHOW YOU THE BRIDE, THE WIFE OF THE LAMB.”
And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and SHOWED ME THE HOLY CITY, JERUSALEM, COMING DOWN OUT OF HEAVEN FROM GOD, HAVING THE GLORY OF GOD……………And the wall of the city had TWELVE FOUNDATION STONES, and on them were THE TWELVE NAMES OF THE TWELVE APOSTLES OF THE LAMB.

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NOTE: All CAPS are just for highlighting scripture for consideration.
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I for one agree 100%.

The idea of taking a 1500 mile cubic structure as literal just seems silly to me and scripturally unwarranted for reasons you lay out.

ADD: For reference, 1500 miles is Washington DC to Denver or Jerusalem to Vienna.

Thanks, Todd

Also, just think of its height.

(I am more familiar with metric measurements.)

It is 2,220 kilometres or 2,220,000 metres high.

Mt Everest is just 8,849 metres high.

It rises far above the Karman Line, the conventional boundary between Earth’s atmosphere and outer space, which is 100 kilometres above Earth’s surface. That is, it extends 2,120 kilometres out into outer space.

Blessings

Top floor please!

Haha.

Only genetically modified humans need apply.

I was inwardly modified and changed into something I had never been by the new birth. Do I qualify?

Hi docs,

Doctrinally, you would qualify to be part of the New Jerusalem that is the Body of Christ.

Blessings

THE LAMB AND HIS BRIDE CONSTITUTE THE NEW JERUSALEM

COMMENT:
The Bride is married to the Lamb and is joined to the Lamb and is ONE with the Lamb. They cannot be separated. The Lamb and the Bride together and as ONE is the New Jerusalem, the Holy City, the Temple and Tabernacle of God.

SCRIPTURE:

John 14:20 ”“
In that day (comment: the Day of Pentecost) you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

John 17:11,22-23 ”“
I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are…………that they may be one, just as We are one; I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity………

Eph. 5:30-32 (KJV) ”“
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Rev. 19:7 ”“
Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready.”

Rev. 21:1-3 ”“
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them

Rev. 21:9-10 ”“
…………… "Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.”
And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, having the glory of God.

Rev. 21:22-23 ”“
I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb.

2 Cor. 6:16 (KJV) ”“
…………for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Comment:
God’s Temple is the Church or the Body of Christ which is indwelt by God in Christ by the Holy Spirit

Jade you commented ; God’s Temple is the Church or the Body of Christ which is indwelt by God in Christ by the Holy Spirit

This is very much what what I’ve found through mining the Word, yet I could not quite see it till He opened it to me.
My faith could reach and grasp after it, yet I could not lay hold of it until I asked Him for it, and it required me to let go of anything/everything else, even and especially what I had "learned” and had formed opinions on. That itself didn’t occur until I got desperate, so overwhelmingly dissatisfied with the fruit of my efforts that, like a child, I cried out to Him in anguish over the lack of life in it. He alone is the life and light thereof and in His mercy, He spoke a (very) hard word to me… yet His word is life, where else could I go?
Once I ate it, He (His word/flesh) created such a hunger in me that I could not but seek Him for more and (so far) each successive portion has been sweeter and more satisfying (life giving) 🙏🏻
Yesterday while searching out a thing, He led me to 1 Corinthians 15 where I discovered Paul gave a "table of contents” as it were regarding this very thing.
Knowing now, that I have nothing of worth to offer Him ,or anyone, other than that which He Himself has given, I offer this to you -
In this chapter (1Cor15) Paul abridges the whole of it (including Christs reign)
And it is absolutely pregnant with Gods glory ✝️
verses 25-50 are especially so tho the whole of this chapter is quite helpful in illuminating Gods plan of redemption of man.
I hope you find it as edifying as it was for me that we may all grow in the knowledge of God to the fullness of Christ 😇

Thank you, Fletcher.

After I submitted my post, it crossed my mind that what I wrote may be too theoretical to some.

I am therefore glad to read your reply.

It is not wrong to mine God’s written Word. This is a starting place. For how can we believe if we have not heard?

But the written Word we study must ultimately become the Word of Life IN us.

And only the Holy Spirit can give this life and the Holy Spirit will only work in believers who deny themselves, take up the cross, and follow Christ. We cannot do this by any "method” but only by the simple and complete faith "of a little child”, to be nothing so that God can be all in us.

To me, to understand that we are the temple/house of God is where we must begin. It is only as the temple/house of God that we can have God’s own eternal life in us, the life that Adam lost and Christ has regained for us.

For life is received by faith in the name of Jesus:

John 20:31 --
but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

And God puts His Name in the house He builds:

2 Sam. 7:12-13 ”“
When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.

We are that house (Eph. 2:19-22; 1 Pet 2:4-6).

Christ lives in us (Gal. 2:20).

Because Christ lives in us, His life is in us (1 John 5:11-12).

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You mentioned 1 Cor. 15.

Can you outline this "table of contents” you wrote about?

Blessings

Joseph lived in a land of giant pyramids, Ezekiel saw a wheel within a wheel, but when John saw a giant cube I guess it was too much for some of us to take at face value.

I regard New Jerusalem as the dwelling place of the redeemed in Christ, collectively known as "the Bride." Why? Abraham "looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God" (Hebrews 11:10). Paul wrote in Galatians 4:26, "But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all." These verses refer to locations. Even Revelation 21:17 describes a wall of only 144 cubits (216 feet) tall surrounding New Jerusalem. It is the measure of the city as 12,000 furlongs (stadion or stadia in Greek) which makes some stagger and others to balk. Regardless of the city's measurements, the walls have gates, and "the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day..." (Rev. 21:24b-25a). This clearly speaks of entry and exiting. How could that be if New Jerusalem were merely symbolic of redeemed saints?

Chuck Smith, in his verse by verse notes on Revelation (via blueletterbible.org) opined that this 1400 mile cube (I thought it was 1500) will float around the earth, being the size of the moon. Sounds a bit sci-fi to me. :)

In the end, scale does not throw me. After all, our God is infinitely larger than His creation.

(For me) the "measurements” in Rev are accurate tho the writings are allegorical…. Again Genesis was written to be taken literally, Rev was written to be taken allegorically, which is to say a specific language was employed to symbolically articulate a series of progressive steps towards and ultimately to, unification of God the Father dwelling on (new) earth with His people in His Kingdom, ie; the body of Christ.

If you would like another biblical reference for this,…
Consider the angel with the reed of measurement, we find the same in Ezekiel 47 (1st portion) with the literal division of land (inheritance of Israel , see also Rom 11) .

Again the angel tells John in Rev, that which you saw as ____ is actually _____
Jesus isn’t literally going to marry a single individual (bride), likewise the two witnesses in Rev 11 aren’t actually olive trees or even persons with literal swords or fires shooting out of their mouths slaying people….

It’s inconsistent, at best, to take Rev literally when it wasn’t intended to be, while we aren't taking Genesis literally which was 🤷🏽”â™‚️

Edit to add: the earth according to Genesis has a literal firmament (fixed and firm) yet the "pillars” spoken of by Job and Samuel are metaphorical for foundation or core material with the connotation of position. In all cases it (creation) is presented exclusively and literally as "geo centric” again with actual, literal, historic events testifying to this fact -

Yes Amen 🙏🏻

Now to your petition… Paul does quite a good bit of work to abridge the plan, doing so by contrasting one with the other all while providing an order, or sequence of events culminating in vs 50-58.

Perhaps taking the "overview” of the events in Rev as the "ways”, with 1Cor15
being the condensed or abridged version of the "means”….
Starting with vs 20 and with 25 referring to millennial reign and continuing from there until the end should help to provide context.
(note; Paul as he often does, uses contrast to illustrate what is sought of by God vs what man seeks after when he is not seeking the Kingdom)

The book of Revelation is by definition a revelation.
Something that was hidden will be revealed.

There are things we can only understand as the Spirit reveals them as the time draws near.

There are things to be taken literally and others allegorical. Applying only one interpretation to the exclusion of the other does not help.

Revelation is obtained not by mere study, but by prayer, intimacy and obedience to the known commandments in scripture.
The scribes in Jesus day searched the scripture with rigour but alway got it wrong.
The prophesies about Christ birth were always there, but the could not decipher them.
On the other hand, Simon and Hannah went into the temple by revelation.
We should look at them as a patters for what it takes to receive revelation.
They were humble, faithful in observing the law. They had received a promise many years ago and hung on to it.
God observed their obedience and integrety over many decades . They proved themselves faithful in small things.
They practised fasting and kept themselves undefiled.

We are living in the last of the last days, I believe we are seeing the scene for the unfolding of the events in Revelation being set.
Only those who follow the footsteps of Moses, Daniel, Simon, Hannah will receive revelation. Those following Christ from afar will be overwhelmed and confused.

Thank you for some good, balanced responses, JFW and Narrowpath. Once more, on the matter of location, Jesus said to His disciples in John 14:2,3: "In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

I think that being with Christ in New Jerusalem will be awe inspiring, to say the least. Marvellous beyond words.

Hello,

I won't pretend to know (or understand) the full breadth of this passage in the Revelation. Is it literal? It is symbolism? Is it both literal and symbol? I cannot state with absolute certainty.

However, I will say that I each time that I've read through the entirety of the Book of the Revelation, I've always taken this particular passage as literal (although fully aware that it might be some sort of symbolism).

I think that it is important to remember the first verse (i.e., Revelation 21:1). It reads: "Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more" (ESV).

This verse clearly states that the first "heaven" and the first "earth" had (past tense) passed away by the time John saw "a new heaven and a new earth."

This "heaven" ("ouranos" in Greek) is used to refer to a physical "heaven" (i.e., physical realm/universe) or "sky" (e.g., Matthew 3:16 "the HEAVENS were opened," Matthew 6:26 "fowls of the AIR,") as well as a spiritual heaven (e.g., Matthew 5:12 "great is your reward in heaven," Matthew 5:48 "your father who is in HEAVEN," etc.).

So, the measurement for this new Jerusalem occurs in this new heaven and earth. Whereas everything that happens from Genesis 1 until Revelation 21 occurred in our current universal realm, the events of Revelation 21 occur in our new realm.

It is conceivable (and obviously not outside the ability of God) to create a new heaven and a new earth where 1400 mile high city is unfathomable to our earthly minds yet completely within the power of God in any new eternal realm that He creates.

Later in the chapter, John implies that there is no longer a Sun or Moon -- because the light comes from God (possibly like it was in the days of creation before the creation of the Sun and Moon.

I'm not discounting the possibility of a symbolic basis for this passage (or the notion that it is both symbolic AND physical). I just feel that the measuring rod is something just as tangible as the tongs of the altar used by the seraphim to atone for Isaiah's unclean lips in Isaiah chapter 6.

The book of Revelation is by definition a revelation.
Something that was hidden will be revealed.

Comment:

The Revelation is the Revelation of Jesus Christ (Rev. 1:1).

The Church is the Body of Christ and therefore the Revelation of Christ would also include His Body.

The scribes in Jesus day searched the scripture with rigour but alway got it wrong.

Comment:

It is because they would not see Jesus in the scripture and would not accept that the scriptures testify about Him

Thanks, Fletcher, for the explanation.

//It is conceivable (and obviously not outside the ability of God) to create a new heaven and a new earth where 1400 mile high city is unfathomable to our earthly minds yet completely within the power of God in any new eternal realm that He creates.//

Of course God could do it. But doesn’t a cubic city seem kind of "blah” not to say impractical? Just doesn’t seem like something God would literally do as a dwelling place for all eternity. Because if it’s a literal cube then people must literally live in it. Nah, it has to be symbolic of the perfection of the bride of Christ, as Jade has laid out. There is also description of streets of gold etc which does not make sense in the context of a cubic city.

If God mentiones measurements, then it cannot be an abstract thing.

If you struggle with the literal heavenly Jerusalem as described in Rev 21, how about the other wonders of God like creation, the flood, the 10 plagues, the passing through the red sea, Christ's crucifixion, the ressurection of the dead and Christs visible return to the whole earth for all men to see?

The heroes in Hebrews 11 endured all their trouble because they longed to enter this city you call "impractical" and even "blah". I would be very afraid to say such a thing.

//mentiones measurements, then it cannot be an abstract thing.//

Why?

And not abstract, but symbolic. All of Revelation (at least Ch 4 et seq.) is allegory and symbolism.

//I would be very afraid to say such a thing//

God knows my heart on this issue. God is going to recreate the universe. Do you think He is going to confine us to a cube? If you do that is fine but God’s glory will far exceed cubic living.

God bless you for your sensitivity, Narrowpath. I have seen many Christians in the western world grow quite cavalier in their handling of the Scriptures. Isaiah 66:5 tells us, "Hear the Word of the LORD, ye that tremble at His Word; your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for My name's sake, said, 'Let the LORD be glorified,' but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed."

As for TMK, what makes you think New Jerusalem is a cube? Just because its base, width, and height are even, can we presume that every building in it is the exact same height? It can't be a single building, as a river runs through it, with the tree of life on either side. Yes, Revelation is pregnant with symbolism and deeper truths, but these never negate or contradict the surface meaning, but only serve to enhance it.

Remember, God uses the foolish things of the world to confound the (worldly) wise, and reveals things to babes, and hides them from the "prudent." I never recommend that anyone turn off his mind and blindly accept anything, but those who are born again in Jesus Christ have a wisdom that is from above which appears as foolishness to the lost.

Well if it’s literal it’s a cube. Are you suggesting a 1500 cubic mile "biosphere” or "snow cube” (instead of snow globe) type structure?

Yes Amen 🙏🏻

Thank you and NP for adding clarity ✝️
We each bear the light we have on a thing and when, by the spirit, we can agree that is the "touching a thing” that actuates it. This is a fundamental function of the Body of Christ, for when we do so the "thing” is there for all to see, partake of. Edifying the body- God is growing it, by His Spirit, both individually and corporately unifying it (us) under the Headship of Christ 😇

This is the Israel from above where Christ is King, the "Kingdom of Heaven”
Which Jade has brought light to where we are the stones being built into an earthly dwelling place that itself will be that which is measured.

And I too feel very much the same about the reed/rod of measurement, there’s 100% something in it but as yet I have not been still enough, long enough to have it come into focus, however like you, I can see enough to know it’s an important feature, or priestly utensil. If it gets clearer anytime soon, I’ll share it here on SI 🙏🏻

11 having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal.

12 Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the NAMES OF THE TWELVE TRIBES OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL:

13 three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west.

14 Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the TWELVE APOSTLES (all Jews) of the Lamb. (Rev 21:11-14)

Jewish names abounding everywhere! This description is intriguing to me and interesting. I don't know what it all means, but it strikes me as maybe so much for the notion that God brought an end to the Jewish era was over in 70 AD and Israel had fulfilled its purpose and no longer has any real identity because of being swallowed up and amalgalated into the universal church where there is supposedly no Jew or Gentile any longer.

Docs, there is much speculation over who the 24 elders are as well, the most common thought being the twelve sons of Jacob and the twelve apostles...but many of those twelve sons did not have a good report, at least prior to Joseph revealing himself to them in Egypt. But New Jerusalem by its very name refers back to the city of David, formerly Jebus until he conquered it. I am not at all an exponent of "replacement theology," nor do I adhere to the "Jewish roots" movement, but have a balanced respect for the land covenant God has with the children of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and remember that He first gave to them the Law, the prophets, and the Messiah before anyone else.

TMK, I don't think you have any reason to despair over a cosmic Rubik's cube. New Jerusalem will be glorious and we will have no complaints.

Just to be clear I do understand that whatever the new heavens and earth is like even if there is a huge cube towering 792,000 stories, it will be incomprehensible wonderful.

The issue on the table is whether Revelation’s description is figurative.

A side note: wouldn’t massive pearls have to come from massive oysters?

Hi TMK,

God knows my heart on this issue. God is going to recreate the universe. Do you think He is going to confine us to a cube? If you do that is fine but God’s glory will far exceed cubic living.

Now, I'm not entirely sure WHAT the new heavens and earth will be like. The physical laws of this physical universe -- even dimensional ones -- will not necessarily apply.

Mankind has done a fairly remarkable job of learning and/or observing the laws of this physical universe that we live in. This is especially true of the last 200 years.

In 1823, people traveled by horse and carriage -- very much like the several thousand years before. By the time that I was born, twelve human beings had already walked on the Moon (and, in fact, none have walked on it since I was born). Now, mankind has sent probes to the farthest extent of our own solar system -- to planetary objects unseen by the naked eye.

Yet, all of the knowledge that mankind has obtained from study, research and observation will be useless in the new heavens and new earth. Whereas our current Earth has a diameter of 7,918 miles, only God knows what the new earth's diameter will be.

After all, "Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him" (I Corinthians 2:9). That can be applied to the realm to come when God has made all things new.

It could very well be a spiritual rather than physical dimension. Yet, in Revelation 21:15-17, John mentions a three-dimensional city (i.e., height, width, length) which is measured by an angel (using a rod) addressing "human measurement" (verse 17). This just sounds quite physical to me. It's spatial and able to be measured (by an angel).

This could very well be both a type and a shadow -- physical representation of a spiritual concept. After all, there is a Temple in heaven (seen by John and probably Ezekiel in Ezekiel chapter 40). John even saw the Ark of the Covenant in that heavenly temple (Revelation 11:19).

Again, I don't know any certainty of these things. In a large sense, I'm like you in that it matters but really isn't applicable at this point of my existence. We're seeking the Builder and Maker of that city rather than the city in and of itself.

I'm not trying to be contemptuous. In fact, I totally agree with the spiritual significance of being "living stones" too (just as we are "living epistles"). So, whether or not the city is a cube (or cube-like) in structure or entirely spiritual is inconsequential. Like all believers, I so eagerly want to see the light of His glory.

Yes, Todd, I've heard all sorts of comments and explanations about each gate being of a single pearl. Is it made of nacre? Or is this a pearl of an altogether different sort? We'll find out. We know Jesus warned us to not cast our pearls before swine, and told the parable of the pearl of great price.

We know that a day is as a thousand years to the Lord, and a thousand years as a day. What if size were on a similar sliding scale in the heavenly realm, allowing for exponential increase or decrease? After all, "what is man, but a breath in the nostrils?" Furthermore, a legion of demons occupied the Gadarene. In Revelation 16 angels poured out vials (bowls) upon the earth which had global effects upon man and the environment. So we see a transition from large to small, and vice versa, in the Word. But this is all quite secondary to the wonders of our Lord Himself.

THE GLORY OF NEW JERUSALEM ”“-
THE GLORY OF GOD IN THE CHURCH IN CHRIST JESUS

When Solomon’s Temple was completed, the glory of God filled the temple (1 Kings 8:10-11).

But the nation abandoned the Lord, despised the Holy One of Israel and turned away from Him (Isa. 1:4).

The glory of God left the temple (Ezek. 10) and the temple was destroyed by the Babylonians c.586 B.C.

After the Babylonian captivity, the second temple was built but God’s glory did not fill this temple. When Herod became king of Judea c.37 B.C., he renovated the temple, and this was the temple of Jesus’ day. It had become a house of business.

Jesus said to the Jews:

John 2:19-22 ”“
Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
The Jews then said, "It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?”
But He was speaking of the temple of His body.
So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken.

NOTE: "He was speaking of the temple of His body.”

The second temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70 A.D.

After the Resurrection and on the Day of Pentecost, God poured out of His Spirit on all flesh (Acts 2:17). All believers are now baptised by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ.

1 Cor. 12:13-14 ”“
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many.

The Church is the body of Christ, and the body of Christ is now the true temple of God.

1 Cor. 12:27 ”“
Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it.

2 Cor. 6:16 ”“
For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will dwell in them And walk among them. I will be their God, And they shall be My people.”

It is in this true temple of God which is the body of Christ which is the Church that God’s glory will fill.

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God’s glory is now revealed to us in Christ.

2 Cor. 4:6 ”“
For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness,” is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.

Heb. 1:3 ”“
And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature,

The Church is called to gain the glory and nature of Christ.

2 Thess. 2:13-14 ”“
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Pet. 5:10 ”“
After you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself perfect, confirm, strengthen and establish you.

John 17:22 ”“
The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity………

Christ in us is our hope of glory.

Col. 1:26-27 ”“
………the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints, to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

2 Cor. 3:18 ”“
But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

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The final revelation of Christ in Revelation includes the revelation of the glory of God in New Jerusalem.

Rev. 21:9-11 ”“
"Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.”
And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, having the glory of God.

The Church is the bride of the Lamb, the New Jerusalem.

The glory of New Jerusalem is the glory of God in the Church in Christ.

Eph. 3:21 (Young’s Literal Translation)”“
to Him is the glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus, to all the generations of the age of the ages. Amen.

It is the Father’s glory in Christ in us (Col. 1:13-14).

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Jude 24-25 ”“
Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy, to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

Yes Amen !
Thank you for taking the time to divide the word and share it here 🙏🏻

"Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." Revelation 22:14

This clearly states that we as believers shall enter into that city, not that we are its architecture. Even John Bunyan echoed this truth in his classic allegory Pilgrim's Progress where Christian faced many trials and temptations en route to the Celestial City. It will be "joy unspeakable and full of glory."

With the utmost respect for you and JB, and as a brother in Christ, I as an honest question…
How do you see the "marriage” of Jesus (an individual) to a city (a multiplicity) as it’s portrayed in the scriptures (while maintaining consistency) actually playing out?

Fletcher, we read about the marriage supper of the Lamb in Revelation 21:7-9, and our Lord Jesus told parables about it in Matthew 22:1-14 and Luke 14:16-24. Matthew 25:1-13 (especially verse 10) also refers to this. At the wedding of Cana (John 2:1-10) where Jesus turned the water to wine we have a foreshadowing of it. He later said to His disciples in the upper room in Matthew 26:29, "But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father's kingdom."

These Scriptures offer fascinating glimpses of this forthcoming event.

Yes and parables, by definition, are allegories. Jesus also said He would raise the temple up in in 3 days… tho they confessed the absurdity of His claim, He made no attempt to correct their misguided conclusion. He knew the reference was to His body and we get to know thru the scriptures, but these educated men missed it by a country mile due to their taking Him literally when He was not speaking so.

Would you consider the statement of Christ regarding the wine was before the cross,… before the resurrection… before the purchase was completed.

That now, His body being the church, we have communion with the Father, thro Lord Jesus, by way of the Holy Ghost -

The prayer Jesus prayed John 17:26 was answered and confirmed by Paul in Romans 5:5 -
God (Father) gave us His love for His Son (Jesus) …. This is the only communion (even fellowship of the spirit) that there is . The act of breaking crackers and sipping grape juice is all fine and good as a ritual but it is only that…a religious ritual.
Paul makes this clear in Cor pointing out that many are sco, infirmed, and die early because they do not discern the body in communion… he’s not talking about crackers and juice.

"Love not the world nor the things of this world, for if you do, the love of the Father is not in you” meaning we are not in the fellowship of the spirit and are not in communion with the Father …. unless we "receive a love of the truth/Jesus that we might be saved”

This is what constitutes a "living stone” ✝️

Fletcher, I am quite fond of Biblical allegories. Parables, as you know, are earthly examples demonstrating spiritual truths. Sometimes these allegories are deep within literal, historical events. Abraham sent his servant to get a wife for his son Isaac. This aligns with the Father sending the Holy Spirit to obtain a bride for His Son Jesus Christ.

This entire thread came up because of "mixed metaphors." We are likened unto living stones, but we are not literally so. Our Lord Jesus was called "the Stone that the builders rejected" during His earthly ministry, and now "the chief cornerstone," but that is not Who He literally is. "Our God is a consuming fire," "God is Spirit," and "God is love" - these are literal statements. To avoid mixed metaphors, I pointed out that the saints enter and exit New Jerusalem, per the cited verses in Revelation 21 and 22, but that they are not the architecture itself. In Galatians 2:9 Peter, James, and John are referred to as "pillars," but this is obviously figurative.

But I do very much enjoy the proverbs, parables, allegories, and the mysteries put forth in the Word. "It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, and the glory of kings to search it out.

I believe we are talking past one another or perhaps you are avoiding the question posed earlier (as you don’t appear incapable).

In either case, this is of no profit as there is not a common vision yet between us, but we do share a common faith 😇 and it is in the spirit of faith (if not vision) that we can maintain unity till we all come to a fullness of Christ 🙏🏻

You asked me about the marriage supper of the Lamb, and I answered you by citing relevant Scriptures. If you are asking for mere personal opinion I offer none except to say that it will be wonderful beyond any earthly experience we have yet had.

Literal table Chris? Just checking.

Yes you responded to a specific (yes personal) question with a series of of numbered scriptures and that’s fine, not what I was hoping for but fine nonetheless.
My intention is to find points, personal points we can agree on and find fellowship in that, building up the body. Likewise to learn and come to a clearer understanding of what I’m seeing. We all have a light to bear and to share and we can agree (in the light of Christ) as touching a thing it serves the cause of Christ ✝️

Jesus said to His disciples in Luke 22:29,30: "And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto Me, that ye may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel."

12 Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

13 three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west.

14 Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. (Rev 21:12-14)

George Eldon Ladd: From "A Commentary on the Revelation of John."

"Verse 12. The city had a great, high wall, with twelve gates. According to verse 13, the gates were arranged with three on each side of the wall. This feature is taken directly from Ezekiel 48:31."

"And at the gates twelve angels, who stand guard on the gate towers as watchers. See Isaiah 62:6, where watchmen are set ion the walls to intercede for Irarel and pray for the coming of the messianic kingdom. On the gates the names of the twelve tribes of Israel were inscribed (see Ezekiel 41:13)."

"Verse 14. The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
This is an obvious allusion to the theology of the church, which is built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets (Ephesians 2:20). By this symbolism of the twelve gates bearing the names of the twelve tribes of Israel, and the twelve foundations bearing the names of the twelve apostles,
John indicates that the city encompasses both dispensations, and that both the Israel of the Old Testament and the church of the New Testament both have their place in God's final establishment." (END)

I looked up his reference to Ezekiel 48:31 and the rest

31 (the gates of the city shall be named after the tribes of Israel), the three gates northward: one gate for Reuben, one gate for Judah, and one gate for Levi;

32 on the east side, four thousand five hundred cubits, three gates: one gate for Joseph, one gate for Benjamin, and one gate for Dan;

33 on the south side, measuring four thousand five hundred cubits, three gates: one gate for Simeon, one gate for Issachar, and one gate for Zebulun;

34 on the west side, four thousand five hundred cubits with their three gates: one gate for Gad, one gate for Asher, and one gate for Naphtali.

35 All the way around shall be eighteen thousand cubits; and the name of the city from that day shall be: THE LORD IS THERE."

A question that came to me is, as many advocate, how can this temple supposedly be the temple they built upon their return from Babylon? It's completely different in measurements and make up as can be easily seen.

Ladd also mentioned Isaiah 62:6. I included verse 6 and 7 below.

6 I have set watchmen on your walls, O Jerusalem;
They shall never hold their peace day or night.
You who make mention of the Lord, do not keep silent,

7 And give Him no rest till He establishes
And till He makes Jerusalem a praise in the earth.

Jerusalem a praise IN THE EARTH and not a heavenly other world domain? No future for the Jewish nation since all was supposedly fulfilled in 70 AD when the "Jewish era" came to an end?

Questions. Questions.

I have heard other theologians suggest that Ezekiel saw the temple of Christ's millennial reign. Israel has never yet fully occupied its inherited land from the Mediterranean to the Euphrates. This temple would fit within those two bodies of water.

Years ago Mart de Haan made a video called "Temple of the Lost Ark" where he had scaled down models of the respective temples (of Solomon, Zerubbabel, Herod, and Ezekiel's vision), comparing and contrasting their specifications. The visual aid is helpful.

As for New Jerusalem, the Lord Himself is its temple, we are told in Revelation.

Thank you.

In spite off differing opinions, I have enjoyed these posts.