Spiritual leaders-make-national-prayer-call-for Trump

https://www.charismanews.com/us/91950-spiritual-leaders-make-national-prayer-call-for-trump

While I stand behind Trumps stance for conservative policy and against all the progressive left woke agenda, I find it very hard to support a man who has been proven unfaithful in marriage and is known for sexual misconduct, misgynomy, and vulgarity.

Of course, the left is famous for fabricated allegations, but I am not sure if they are all baseless.

I firmly believe that true leadership must be at first moral, before any other characteristics are to be considered. Check this verse:

Psalm 15:1 Lord, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?....4 In whose eyes

a VILE PERSON IS CONTEMPTED; but he honoureth them that fear the Lord.

I know I will get lynched for these questions, but is he really the best man America can come up with?
Can a Christian endorse and promote let alone pray for a person who has hurt so many? Does that not reflect on your own ability to exercise propper judgment? Can Christians endorse a vulgar and impure man for president and at the same time stand the moral high ground against the LGBTQ+ fraction? Do you not see the double standard? Some go as far as canonizing Trump.

Should he be the face of your nation? Is he the best pick among a hundred million men to represent your nation? Will he heal your divided nation or will he polarize even more? Do you believe you should elevate such a man to a position of world leadership? Does he set an example that others should follow? Does he represent or caricature your nation? Does he not make his foes like Biden/Harris and heads of hostile nations look better than they in fact are?

After Germany lost WWII and the Allies invaded our nation, my grandparents were forced to host American soldiers on their farm and they were by and large well behaved. You had our respect and gratitude. We saw you as liberators from our own Nazi terror, but these times are long gone.

Proverbs 29:18
Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he.

Backslidden preachers, backslidden churches, Trump is not the solution, repentance and a revival is needed. Stop exporting fake Christianity and learn from the underground church, you will need to apply their lessons soon.

I tend to agree NP but if push came to shove I’d have to vote for Trump (ie if it’s him vs a liberal democrat in the big election in 2024).

Are you pro or anti Samson?

@Todd - not sure what you mean with Samson, but I liken Trump as Samson in the Bible, a man who God uses to save a nation, though he had fundamental flaws such as a propensity to revenge driven behaviour and a lack of self control.
If I were an American citizen, I would begrudingly vote republican and Trump for want of a better alternative, the proverbial choice between a rock and a hard place.

Mark how the dark aera of Judges is summed up in one sentence: In those days Israel had no king; everyone did as they saw fit.

Yeah I definitely see a parallel with Samson. He was filled with the Spirit but still a cad and lacking in a moral compass if it didn’t suit him. But he was God’s instrument.

So it’s possible to be "for” and "against” Samson at the same time. You can be against his personality and ways but you have to be for him because God wanted to use him.

Ha! Let’s hope he pulls this whole corrupt temple down on their heads like Samson 🙏🏻

Are you pro or anti Samson?

To me, the question is:

Is God for or against us?

If God is for us, who can be against us (Rom. 8:31)?

But if God is against us, there is no hope for us.

Samson paid a terrible price for his ungodly conduct.

His strength left him (Judges 16:19).

The Lord departed from him (Judges 16:20).

The Philistines seized him, blinded him, imprisoned him, and made him provide amusement for them (Judges 16: 21-25).

Throughout Israel’s history, when the people forsook God, God forsook them and delivered them to their enemies.

But God is merciful and when they cried out to God in their oppression and afflictions, God freed them from their enemies and gave them rest.

Samson cried out to God:

Judges 16:28 ”“
Then Samson called to the Lord and said, "O Lord God, please remember me and please strengthen me just this time, O God, that I may at once be avenged of the Philistines for my two eyes.”

But Samson also said:

Judges 16:30 --
And Samson said, "Let me die with the Philistines!”

I would say that Samson finally realised that:

Rom. 7:18 ”“
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells……

He was no better than the Philistines and deserved to die with them.

So the Philistines perished.

And Samson also died.

FOOD FOR THOUGHT:

Judges 16:30 ”“
So the dead whom he killed at his death were more than those whom he killed in his life.

COMMENT:

This post is about Samson. I will refrain from commenting about Trump.

While I would truly rejoice if Trump could reverse all the woke and leftist nonsense, I see that the church will have to go through persecution and suffering so that she can be cleansed and purified. God will use these evil agents, satan, antichrist and all his stooges to form Christ in us.
I even believe not even the LGBTQ+ is in control but they are used by some hidden super dark power as tool to drive an ulterior agenda.

He first tries to destoy everything God created for good.
Gender, parenthood, property, justice, truth, and humanity.
Mind you God will allow his enemies to commit themselves to eternal destruction just so that he can have a bride for his son in dazzling beauty.

As disturbing as this all seems, everything runs according to Gods plan. As on the day of crucifiction, Satan thought he had his greatest triumph, he actually was defeated. So will be the final victory of Christ.

Jesus told Judas, "What you are about to do, do quickly."
As it was then, so even now. Satan only has very limited time and he will run into eternal distruction dragging everyone along who is not an overcomer in Christ.

Most of what calls itself Christian will yeald to the wokist agenda become another tool in Satans hand. We will see some more shocking departures from the faith.
They will kick us out of their midst for our good.

2 Corinthians 6:17
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

Folks, time is short and we must get real.

Revelation 12:11
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

I would rather die than miss the plot. We are living in tumultous times, but also in times where we can do great exploits in Christ.

\tReply To This Post | Edit |

Hi All,
I think Christians are probably holding Trump up to a standard they dont hold any other President too which is a bit hypocritical.

Abortion gone federally which looked impossible in 2015
That says it all but look at the other things ...

Abraham Accords and moving of embassy to Jerusalem
A friend of Israel

Attended Christian Prayer mornings which other Presidents would not be caught dead at,invited Pastors to the Oval office and highlighted Christian Persecution.
Gave Billy Graham a state funeral which would not happen without him.

Then to lifes practical issues
Employment up
Economy up
Minority Employment Up
The Border wall or part border wall.
Only President not to start a war in recent years and prevented one starting between Ukraine and Russia.
Got Nato to pay what they owed or part pay

All of this under extreme conditions that no other President enured
Russia hoax ,fake dossiers,special prosecuters ,raids on his home,mass censorship of his presidency and Covid.

Even if it were down to just the one issue
:The ending of federal Abortion which saves thousands and thousands of lives I think he deserves a vote and respect.
Christian prayed and prayed for years for a leader that would end the killer Abortion and when we got one all alot of them could do was whine and moan about that leader being a loud mouth and about possible misdemeanors which werent proven anywhere.Even if they are proven they are nothing in compares to the ending of child sacrifice....
You're not voting in a Pastor you are voting in a President .If you want to vote in a Pastor get one to run
urs staff

My prayer for Trump is that he gets truly converted, repents, and throws himself on the mercies and merits of Jesus. His hope is the same as anyone’s. And that is the only one. If God does send revival to America in any measure we can rest assured that it will not rest one ounce on the shoulders of Trump. While God is sovereignly turning the hearts of kings like the courses of rivers to suit His will, I pray He does so for me and for everyone else. May we all now, while we can, throw ourselves at the foot of the cross and on the assurance of the empty tomb. All nations have scoffed at God and scorn Him now. There is no deliverer except God Himself, in Christ, who will gather all of His people in the day of the Lord. Pray that our love for Him grows and becomes deeper and truly rooted in His grace. We need each other. Blessings.

Hi Dolfan,
I think your prayer is a passive aggressive prayer .I would just be thankful to God for bringing a leader who changed things for the good even though like us all we are flawed and in need of Christ.
If Christians have a problem with Trump the problem is with them not Trump.Likewise anyone who says that Trump is some kind of saviour is most likely a patriotic non Christian as all Christians know that only Christ is the one and only true saviour.
God brings in leaders like Trump to bring about his purposes or to put up a barrier to the spread of evil similar to what a border does.I dont expect Trump to live up to an unrealistic standard of behaviour and I dont expect him to have a Damascus road experience either but it could happen.
Do I think that God put Trump in office?100%
Clearly he was a force for good and you have to give credit where credit is due,
urs staff

Unless the majority of a given country's citizens are pious Christians, a presidency-canvasing Paul-like has next to no chance of being voted in to its white house to start with. And even if it were possible (miracle perhaps), it would be near as frustrating as trying to pastor a Church made up of carnal and careless folks. This therefore my explain why more worthy presidency-candidates remain unknown - because there isn't a worthy majority to represent.

A country should first need a worthy and widespread revival to can accommodate an equally worthy Christian president. Why the majority will gladly vote him in to the white house. And the unsaved minority will then have no choice but to be bound by whatever enacted Christ-like laws. Until this happens, anything between a regularly persecuted Church and an underground one (as NP illuded) should be expected where existing Christians continue to walk 'worthy of the vocation'. I personally do not vote and the reason has been 'the rock and a hard thing' thus far.

Hi KervinM,
I think opting out is not the best option.For instance if in 2016 you voted for Trump who said that he would put supreme court justices in place that would get rid of federal abortion then you would have help save millions of lives.
The country under Trump was not in revival nor was the president a Christian but he did do what he said he would do.
So if you were in the US and voted you would clearly have being doing the right thing,no rock ,no hard place,
urs staff

I voted for Trump, not because He is a Christian, and I don’t believe he is born again, but even as God used Cyrus, the Lord used Trump to come against the globalists, protect Christians, support Israel, support life, and come against the climate change hoax, supports our military and the police, was closing our borders, and put pro life justices in the Supreme Court.

Obama and Biden claim to be Christians, but they are both liars and deceivers, and the Democratic Party has gone fully woke.

I do not put my trust in any man to save America. Only God can do that, and only a Heaven sent revival will turn us around. I am encouraged because the Lord is waking up the sleeping giant (the Church).

Tonight, Sixty Minutes Australia aired a segment on the scandal involving Giancarlo Granda, Jerry Falwell Jr. and his wife.

It also mentioned the Falwells’ alleged contact with Michael Cohen and that not long after the alleged contact, Jerry Jr made an announcement, which then made him the first prominent evangelical leader to endorse Donald Trump. And this move was pivotal in Trump getting the backing of America's influential Christian right, and ultimately landing him the White House.

Hi Branchinvine,
Sorry the point is what?
urs staff

Hi Abideinhim,
I think that was the exact course of action.Christians who did not vote for Trump or not vote at all are and have been making excuses why they made these two mistakes,urs staff

Jerry Falwell declared that there was a moral majority. There is no such thing. Decades ago most Americans had a biblical world view. Now only 37% of pastors that were polled have a biblical world view, and that is why we are in the shape that we are in as a nation.

Trump would have been re-elected in 2020 if people that call themselves Christians would have voted. We had well known Christian leaders that said that Christians should not vote because we are of another Kingdom.

This might interest you:

"America Rejecting The Light" - Leonard Ravenhill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onWfnrP5Sro

Hi Staff,

It means that if there is truth in what was said, then Jerry Falwell Jr had something to hide and was pressured into supporting Trump.

And Jerry Falwell was the president of Liberty University, America's most influential evangelical university.

Hi BranchinVine,
Donald Trump didnt get elected because of Jerry Falwell Jr ,he got elected because of his message and who he got to support him.Unlike other politicians he went to heartland US who had been left behind.Even on the cusp of Election night his last gasp visits to out of the way places were mocked but the election strategy worked.
Why would you not support a guy who was going to get rid of Abortion?not start wars? and bring the economy to new heights for everyone.Any Christian who either voted for abortion loving Hillary Clinton or didnt vote at all or continue to make excuses are misguided,
urs staff

Hi Staff,

Why would you not support a guy who was going to get rid of Abortion?not start wars? and bring the economy to new heights for everyone.

Certainly you can vote for that guy if that is what you want.

But no one marches under Christ’s banner who is not worthy of His holy name.

Hi BranchinVINE,

Certainly you can vote for that guy if that is what you want.

But no one marches under Christ’s banner who is not worthy of His holy name.

"It is I who by my great power and my outstretched arm have made the earth, with the men and animals that are on the earth, and I give it to whomever it seems right to me. Now I have given all these lands into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon, MY SERVANT...."

Jeremiah 27:5-6 (ESV)

*******

Now, this is obviously from the Old Testament. However, I don't think that anyone pretended that President Trump was a perfect vessel. I don't know anyone who argued that he was a believer before, during or after his presidency. However, in comparing the candidates who ran, I would certainly argue that President Trump was the better option.

People who voted for him were not voting to align themselves to him. People who voted for him were not voting to hold allegiance or loyalty to him (or, obviously, they shouldn't have). Rather, people who voted for Donald Trump were simply using their vote as a voice in this country. They were selecting a person who would be the better administrator, chief executive and commander-in-chief of the nation for a four-year period.

The thing about elections and presidential administrations is that they quickly become history. Joe Biden has been in office for the last three years. Trump's presidential administration is recent history. It could possibly be future history too.

As much as the policies that Trump supported and implemented (what many believers would say was good), Joe Biden has gone the other direction. We now live at a time when politicians applaud teachers for sneaking behind a child's parents' backs and teaching their ideals about sex, homosexuality, transgenderism or taking that child to abortion clinics. Our current president and his supporters applaud.

I think that the greatest legacy left by President Trump was his THREE nominees to the U.S. Supreme Court. That legacy will resonate for many years. In fact, a third of all of the justices on the Supreme Court were nominated by Trump.

Interestingly, the next part of that prophecy in Jeremiah mentions the fleeting nature of history.

*******

"....and I have given him also the beasts of the field to serve him. All the nations shall serve him and his son and his grandson, UNTIL THE TIME OF HIS OWN LAND COMES. Then many nations and great kings shall make him their slave."

Jeremiah 27:6-7 (ESV)

*******

I think that most believers understand that God raises and lowers governments. I remember a conversation on SermonIndex more than a decade ago where people were declaring the United States to be the "Babylon the Great" from the Book of Revelation.

Yet, I pointed out that America has only existed for a very short time in human history. While this nation might be the world's lone or mightiest superpower, our status as the most powerful nation on Earth is relatively short. We don't know if America, like England before it, will be supplanted by some other power.

Besides, the course of history is already known by God. God does raise up powers. God humbles those powers too. The Book of Daniel shows how clearly God sees the future -- as He already knows the end from the beginning.

After all, God rescued his chosen people from Egypt through Moses his servant. Yet, God waited for centuries to coincide the rescue of the elect with the punishment of both Egypt and those in Canaan whose sin had not yet reached full measure (Genesis 15:12-21).

For the sake of our nation, I do hope that God raises up someone to replace the great iniquity that is being legislated by our current administration's chief executive and his cabinet. Whether that is Donald Trump, Ron DeSantis or some other person, I don't know. However, I pray daily for this nation in which we live. I pray that God will raise up leaders who will publicly take a stand for God's people and implement policies that are right.

Hi BranchinVine,
Don't you think its hypocritical being a Christian and not voting against Abortion?
Like it or not the Christian vote is a section of the US vote and it will be easier to get elected if they are on your side.
God has always used non Christians to forward his purposes whether it hurts some Christians sense and sensibilities or not
urs staff

I can say I’ve made an honest effort to locate a person who has been so persecuted as a political figure and (for me) there just isn’t anyone to really compare with that I’ve been able to find… anyone who even begins to approach that level of political/ideological persecution has done some very bad things, yet as has been pointed out in this thread, he has not only not done those things but in fact quite the opposite which (for me) makes him an anomaly of sorts, one of the most unique individuals in one of the most unique moments in history. It’s quite interesting that this man did the most unthinkable thing in modern history, that absolutely no one on planet earth had imagined or predicted that provided remedy for what the outgoing administration said was "the number one threat to American/global security” in an exit speech. Perhaps he, Trump, was the only one who could strike a deal and be the first foreign Head of State to cross the DMZ by invitation and bring to the table a resolution of sorts where the aggression that posed said "greatest threat” was now no longer a threat, complete with an immediate deescalation of military action or even threats. Where it remained so as long as he held office.

This (for me) is a truly great accomplishment but what makes it more so is he didn’t use the military, threats of violence, economic sanctions, etc… but an olive branch of sorts in that he simply viewed this "madman” as a human who has 25,000,000+ souls directly under his control and a somewhat capable nuclear arsenal, which could be used against the populace not to mention our allies, if not us and certainly against our troops stationed abroad.

That we had the "greatest threat” to world security resolved in relative short order, without a military intervention is a remarkable thing and not only is it just one of many things he did in 4yrs …. he was mocked for even attempting it 🤔

He also invokes God/His name more than any other president in my lifetime always directing people to pray and trust God.

Daniel 2:21 ”“
It is He who changes the times and the epochs;
He removes kings and establishes kings;
He gives wisdom to wise men
And knowledge to men of understanding.

Therefore, it can be said that God set up Trump, removed Trump and set up Biden.

Anyway, I do not want to be embroiled in a debate on the American election on this forum so I will leave this thread here.

A last word:

Peter wrote his epistles in the dark and terrible days of Nero.

1 Pet. 13-16 ”“
…………fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance, but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; because it is written, "You shall be holy, for I am holy.”

2 Pet. 3:13 ”“
But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

----------

For a child has been born to us, a son has been given to us.

Isa. 9:6 ”“
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace,

Dan. 7:14 ”“
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.

Blessings to all.

You seem to have a personal distaste for Donald J. Trump…
Why is this?

A few thoughts. I voted for Trump but as time went on became increasingly frustrated with his personal demeanor. Have any of his supposed spiritual advisors told him that in spite of his effectiveness in getting things done, many times he has a big mouth and runs it overtime and he would be better off as a President if he would work on laying this aside? It seemed like a new drama each day almost and a lot of it had to do with things he said and the way he said them.

Vice President Pence served him well and President Trump turned on him at the end. VP Pence did not have the constitutional authority to declare the election void like Trump urged him to do. You can't do what you don't have the authority to do. And President Trump turned on his Attorney General at the end also. He was displaying Saul like behavior in my opinion. If you don't do it my way, I'll pin you to the wall like Saul tried to do with King David. These things matter to his followers whether he wants to believe it or not.

He has been done wrong though with the Russian collusion thing and much more but those responsible and legally guilty for doing this in a non legal manner are never going to held accountable. The Republicans in my opinion will not end up holding anyone legally responsible. The highest crimes ever committed in the high corridors of government will therefore pass by unaccounted for. I don't think they realize how far they have pushed and demoralized the Amercian people. Where would we be without an unchanging Savior and a kingdom that cannot be shaken.

Ha! "They” said much the same of Jesus,… that He had a devil, was a wine bibbler, was a blasphemer, was unclean, sat down with / ate with sinners,…

Trump had said numerous times that he had no interest in politics years before running, even stating that the only way he would run is if it got so bad and no one else would, then he would consider it. This man saw his country being devoured by wolves and stepped down from his golden abode to do what no one else would and has been desperately feared by the ungodly ever since he came down the escalator… this man never claimed to be suited to the position, rather he was simply willing to do what no one else had the fortitude to do and we’d do well to take heed to the example he has set forth as a warrior who fights for those whom have no voice, even while they mock, malign and hate him…. 🤔

I'm leary of comparing Trump with Jesus. Things have gone a bit far when this begins to happen. Plus you didn't address his treatment of VP Pence who served him faithfully during his whole administration but who Trump turned on at the end. becasue Pence would not do something he had no legal authority to do. Same with the AG Barr. I thought during the last two years if he didn't reel in his tongue and manners, it might cost him 4 or 5 percentage points in the polls and he could end up losing the election. Which happened. I think some of his former supporters didn't vote for him again because they were tired of a new drama each day in the Oval Office and his acid tongue. Trump could very well have cost himself the election. For all his effectiveness in leading and getting things done, he is a double barrel jerk. There is no getting around it. He obviously will not listen to his advisors on the issue. It makes the church look bad when unbelieving people see evangelical leaders gathered around him with their hands laid on him as if his personal manners mean nothing to them. I wish he was tempermentably able to sit down with open ears and listen for a moment to those who are trying to help him in this area. He's rude and he needs to let go of it if he wants to better represent the God who he is so fond of making reference to.

Meanwhile, his record of achievements during so short a time remain unmatched. And I'll never vote left.

You have some born again presidential candidates such as Pence, Haley and Pompeo. Why not support some of them?

Winnability.

Hi Docs
The only only one comparing Trump to Jesus is you,nobody else.You are making excuses most likely on why you didnt support the anti abortion candidate.
As to why not support other candidates is because Trump has already proven successful and has a proven presidential track record.As to whether Mike Pence is innocent or guilty of letting the country down remains unproven.
The real reason that some Christians and alot of non Christians dont like Trump is spriritual ,demons in the skies I'm afraid, pulling their strings.People who would rather Abortion remain and pastor like behaviour over Abortion gone and some feathers rattled,
urs staff

Hi Narrowpath,
They wont get the Job done,
urs staff

Pence… what’s to say? Not much other than he is otherwise weak and ineffective and he absolutely had the authority to investigate allegations of a fraudulent election which actually he is required to do by law - but I’m not mad that he didn’t do it… he demonstrated that he is controlled as is Pompeo and Barr. There seems to still be this idea that it’s a red vs blue or republican vs democrat paradigm in view for many people yet in truth it’s an outsider vs the insiders - just like with Jesus (outsider) vs the Pharisee’s (insiders) -
I suppose many in the first century who believed and profited from the corrupt Sanhedrin were equally offended when Jesus turned the tables over, loudly (rudely) rebuking the "leaders” of His day to their faces, calling them whitewashed tombs of dead men’s bones. They like we, had allowed their faith to become institutionalized and as such Jesus (like Trump) didn’t fit their institutional narrative- . Just as interstates had to be closed in attempt to handle the crowds trying to get to Trumps rally’s, so too did Jesus’s presence draw massive crowds that threatened the corrupt power structure of the Pharisees.

The comparisons don’t make me leery in the slightest as the circumstances are uncanny. Remember Jesus wasn’t viewed as a "good guy” by the same crowds who exclaimed Hosanna in the highest 3 days earlier before being exposed to Jewish controlled media, but rather they cried "crucify Him” much like the experience of Trump after the same Jewish media had their way. But these are those whose condemnation was ordained long ago and is sealed. Truly there is nothing new under the sun.

It almost sounds like people would rather have an "Obama” who is a gifted orator or a "Pence” who play the role of a "good guy” rather than a maverick wh gets the job done🤔

If one of our sewage pipes burst in our homes, would we call our preacher (the best man) or a plumber (best man for the job) 🤷🏽”â™‚️

I know this with all certainty, that "if” old Joe had actually gotten 81,000,000 votes the establishment wouldn’t fear 45 so much -

/Hi Docs
The only one comparing Trump to Jesus is you, nobody else. You are making excuses most likely on why you didn't support the anti-abortion candidate/

Where did I compare Trump to Jesus? Please point it out to me.

Your reply is pure carnal accusation with a ton of incorrect presumption thrown in. I voted for President Trump twice largely based on his anti-abortion stance among other things. I remain convinced though that he may have cost himself the election because the small percentage he lost by may have been people who once supported him but grew tired of his manners and juvenile tweets which were an embarrassment.

Your post and accusations are totally wrong factually and attitude wise.

The Jewish media?

Well it wasn’t the Romans that railed up the crowds against Jesus now was it?🤔

Hi Docs
your qoute
I'm leary of comparing Trump with Jesus

You put comparing Trump with Jesus in a sentence when nobody was comparing Trump with Jesus thats the problem.
If anybody stopped voting for Trump because of his manners then the problem is with them not Trump.
My attitude is this that anybody who has a problem with Trump who is not a Christian are holding him up to a standard that no other politician is being held up too and I am suspicious why that is?
urs staff

Hi Docs,
Also why are you not first on here listing his achievements
like Abortion,Israel ,no wars starte,record employment etc rather than worrying about minor things like tweets etc?
If has you say you are being even handed?
urs staff

to be clear, I love you brother and tho we may not always agree on the nuance of a thing, I nonetheless very much value your perspective and am personally blessed by your faith. We are all different members (organs) of the same body, as such it’s not unreasonable (to me) that the kidneys would have a different experience and therefore perspective than the liver, lungs, etc…
Having said this, my mind is renewed in the spirit of truth to the purpose of perceiving the Kingdom of Heaven. Everything else is viewed in contrast to the Kingdom from a historical perspective, so (for me) this whole Trump thing is a phenomenon that I can’t find a historical reference to use as a comparison (and I’ve looked honestly) yet the scriptures provide numerous historic situational comparisons that I simply cannot ignore 🤷🏽”â™‚️
It’s not (for me) a comparison between persons but one of circumstance …
I don’t have a personal bias for or against anyone, rather my view or position is biased for the Kingdom of Heaven/cause of a Christ and against anything (knowledge/pretense) that opposes the cross of Christ. Yet even there my charter from God, the Holy one of Israel, is to do battle in the spirit on behalf of these persons who have been taken captive by the deceitfulness of Satan and his minions, having the gospel veiled from before there eyes. These are those whom, just like we all were, are in spiritual bondage brought forth by the lies of the devil. We have the remedy, the good news ✝️ and Trump gave place to that in a time that required either great grace or massive courage, either way I challenge everyone here on SI to find another historic figure in the past 1000yrs that had a comparable effect on the world at large as Trump has that didn’t either commit atrocities or was an obvious profitable vessel used directly by God to His own purpose? Since the former is (so far) off the table then the latter consideration gives me pause and requires me to hold my tongue in an assault or offering a distaste on the vessel God chose to execute His will here on earth in a most polarizing way …. 🧐

This man has literally been a friend to everyone except those who seek to corrupt and devour the last beacon of freedom left and bring it under the control of a godless group of pirates and plunderers. These are those whom oppose God openly and without shame seek to impose their depravity on us all by force of law and/or mandate. This man is the only person I’ve seen stand up to this and actually do something to reverse it. Perhaps the Lord couldn’t find anyone in the Church or in politics with the faith or intestinal fortitude to do that which needs to be done… or perhaps they were simply not in a position to effect the change required in the moment it is required?
In any case, I hope you understand that these discussions and even the debates are (for me) a healthy function of the body, if we are striving for unity. 😇

Pence served faithfully and quietly in a loyal attitude in a steady and consistent manner. Trump praised him throughout s a good choice and a good VP. Now,because he wouldn't do what he could not legally do he is weak and ineffective?

/You put comparing Trump with Jesus in a sentence when nobody was comparing Trump with Jesus that's the problem./

WRONG again. I assume you can read or else chose to deliberately read over what another said comparing Jesus and Trump.

I brought up more than President Trump's immature and embarrassing tweets. There's his serial adultery also which he has not expressed an iota of sorrow or repentance over. If he had not dallied and paid people off then a lot of his present problems would not exist.To unbelievers, it makes the church and evangelical leaders as they are seen to just pass over these moral disqualifications. God can give a man a calling to do something and that man can fail or become morally disqualified and be removed from that calling. What if the Lord called Trump but then removed him for various reasons? Why is it that if someone even takes a look at Nikki Haley, Pompeo, Pence, DeSantis and others they are said to be committing a disloyal heresy of sorts against Trump. Watch how ugly mannered and insulting he will act toward others challenging him for the nomination. His act needs improvement and he needs to open his ears to what others have said to him unless they have just fawned over him and been afraid to tell him some needed medicine. He's a world beater for sure but he is narcisstically hard-headed.

I'm out of this discussion from here.

Blessings.

Hi Docs
Im not wrong again,you delibrately for the first time put comparing Trump with Jesus passive aggressively in a sentence.

Then instead of giving credit where credit is due on Abortion,Peace and economy or instead of highlighting the injustice of the witch hunt against him you highlight mean tweets and manners .Trump is not a Christian and I dont expect him to act like one.
The real problem here is that the people against Trump are being for no logical reasons are having their strings pulled by Principalities and Powers using false Prophets the media and politicians to do their work,
urs staff

Hi Docs
This is not true only CNN and friends say it was not legal and Pence did turn on him also after J6 which was a clear set up,urs staff

You are absolutely WRONG again or refuse to read.

I voted for President Trump twice. He got many many things done in a short period of time which drove the left and the media wild. There is a witch hunt against him. There always has been. But being grieved over his manners and childish immaturity many times and his serial adultery and the like is not being manipulated by the principalities and powers. Evangelical leaders are failing him if they don't point these things out to him.

Many false prophets assured us Trump would be sworn again as the next President in spite of Biden seeming to win the election. I'm sure you remember those false prophets.

Hi Docs
Its you that is refusing to read and also refuse to comment on my comments but inject stuff like

"Many false prophets assured us Trump would be sworn again as the next President in spite of Biden seeming to win the election. I'm sure you remember those false prophets"

I agree the people that prophesied incorrectly or falsely are absolutely wrong and should be avoided.Alot of people are quick to paint Trump as an adulterer without any real hard facts.(again he is not a Christian even if he has)

Anyone who is against Trump or attacks Trump over minor minor things like manners and doesnt give a fair account of him and his achievements are being influenced by false prophets who are under principalities and powers.
Trump is just a typical New Yorker when it comes to his manner.
When a guy went out on a limb to get rid of Abortion and generally help the right causes then I dont come at him for mean tweets.To me its even less than trivial.We should pray for him that God will help and protect him from the enemy and if its the Lord's will that he may be elected again and do further Good.It may or may not be his will,
urs staff

/Anyone who is against Trump or attacks Trump over minor minor things like manners and doesnt give a fair account of him and his achievements are being influenced by false prophets who are under principalities and powers./

Again, you obviously didn't read or chose to ignore my comments about his unmatched record of getting things done. So, I'm not under the influence of the devil.

Accusing him of unfaithfulness without any real evidence? I suppose he was just giving a gift of $140,000 to the lady so she would have a good day. And the other lady before that he paid off also.

I have been a part of the church for the last 50 years or so and have consistently been taught that character matters above all else in leaders. So they are effective and get things done and can do this or that. If they lack character they lack the one thing they need the most. Can President Trump perhaps express at least a small bit of humility to his supporters? Especially those of the church who have supported him. There hasn't been a peep of apology or repentance from his proud lips. He has openly humiliated his wife several times in this matter of unfaithfulness, but, by golly, he is effective so just leave off any mention of these areas. I don't buy it because of the church's influence and instruction to me over the years. Trump is not getting a free pass as many are giving him because God is obviously requiring it of him right now and he has only himself to blame (James 1:14). God judges each man impartially regardless of position, power, or stature. It's not heresy or being influenced by principalities and powers to be concerned about these issues. And there are other well qualified bona fide candidates without the baggage that it's not wrong to take a look at. If one doesn't vote for Trump (I voted ror him twice) this time around it doesn't mean they are Satan's agent. I haven't made a decision though but it's wrong to castigate people who may look around at other candidates.

/We should pray for him that God will help and protect him from the enemy and if its the Lord's will that he may be elected again and do further Good.It may or may not be his will,/

On this we totally agree. I've already been doing it.

Peace.

Hi Docs
On the main issue of this Post I think the Christian leaders who ask for prayer for Trump are correct.What to pray for is another question.If its the Lord's will that he be elected again I dont know but in general he has fought a great battle so far and for the most part correctly in amazingly difficult historic times,achieving things that were only dreamed off by Christians pre 2016.We all know that he is just a man and not anything more ,a great man perhaps but still just a man.Christ is the all.
I cant castigate Trump for what people sees as bad manners when I dont hold up anybody else to this high standard.
Nobody is telling anybody to vote or not vote for Trump that is your decision but if they did tell you its their right too tell you and your right to not listen to them.
Anybody can vote for other candidates such as Pompeo,Pence or Haley who all supported Trump in the past but only came to fore because of Trump not on their own steam.They are all too nice in my opinion to stop or slow down some very evil things.Their are some up and coming capable Christian politicians like Byron Donalds.It would be great to have a gung ho Christian in the White House.
Trump has shown great Character through the last 8yrs and I dont expect or would like for him to have his hands tied behind his back by left wing political correctness.I dont want to hear false humility and I know that I would not have been able to endure what he has endured albeit with alot of prayer support behind him.
The left wing media and judicary but not exclusively left are under the Principalities and Powers of Satan and anyone that listens to them with discernment can see this.They openly support Abortion,Gender equality and LGBQ and if they manage to tell the truth its only a half truth.Also they employ mass organised censorship as which was confirmed by the numerous twitter drops.
The Stormy Daniels issue is just unproven slander both the DOJ and the former prosecuter said that it was a nothing burger and she wrote a letter saying that they never had an affair.Also this was meant to happen in 1994 not 2016!

Your Qoute
I have been a part of the church for the last 50 years or so and have consistently been taught that character matters above all else in leaders.

Thats it Docs Trump is not a Christian and doesnt have to come under my/our rules and regulations,
urs staff

You wrote, "Why is it that if someone even takes a look at Nikki Haley, Pompeo, Pence, DeSantis and others they are said to be committing a disloyal heresy of sorts against Trump”

Because why would they even consider it?? does anyone honestly think any of these named could do what Trump has already done… on top of that, each of these individuals are established politicians and if history has taught us anything it’s that you can affect change by doing the same thing with the same people🤷🏽”â™‚️

Ideologically, these people don’t have the MAGA doctrine as a native feature, which by disposition is squarely anti-establishment, as such they represent the interests of those whom they are beholden to for the station they’ve attained. Which is to say that in each case, they are bought and paid for by those whom put them in power. Notably, in contrast to this, Trumps donations were by percentage primarily from regular working class peoples, not mega-donors like the Koch bros, and various other organizations. The entire’16 campaign was run on returning power back to "the people” wrestling from the hands of corrupt politicians who had sold it off in the form of favorable legislation, grants, hiring/appointing, deferring prosecutions of crimes, etc…
Most notably, not a single individual you named ever mentioned much less exposed, shut down or prosecuted child/human traffickers even once before Trump took office…. 🤔 perhaps it’s because they know well if they had done so, they would’ve been treated exactly as Trump is being treated, if not simply killed. Remember when, through electronic docketing, a female federal judge had Epstein’s case assigned to her court, an assassin posing as a FedEx driver came to her home and executed her husband and child on their stoop…. and she hadn’t even publicly mentioned the case or contents…. Where is the outrage and wall to wall media coverage of this terrorist attack on our federal judiciary? Or of the subsequent investigation, arrest and trial ???
Surely if we can be tracked and traced to know if we’ve contacted someone with Covid then surely we can find this guy in our present surveillance state what with all the cameras currently deployed, perhaps the one in her door would provide a clue or two… and why haven’t we deployed this sophisticated network of surveillance to track and trace the child/human traffickers???

Who do you think is running this thing ? Who do you imagine is buying all these kids ?? And where do they all wind up??
On average, more than 500,000 children go missing in/from America each year, and all of your proposed candidates have been in office in power for years of not decades and have done what exactly??? I’ll tell you what, they have cowered and remained silent while countless children have been, kidnapped, raped, tortured, had their organs harvested as well as being made victims of satanic abuse through rituals. David, again I love you, but this is not a personality contest,… and f it were then any of your proposed candidates could easily (except pompeo) win mr/Mrs congeniality-
This (child/human trafficking) has been industrialized and is one of the largest, fastest growing industries for over a decade… so far as I’ve seen, Trump is the only one to stand up and do something about it, which by the way he was "tweeting” aggressively about this issue in the 2010’s decade well before he ever considered a bid for the presidency. So I’m asking you to consider it from Gods perspective, a kingdom perspective, complete with numerous biblical situational parallels,… which do you imagine God cares more about- the character of cowards or the willingness/faith of a man to take a stand against demonic principalities? Trump is the only head of state in American history to stand in the gap on this 💯 now ask yourself why that is…🤔