Prophetic Briefing

There will be a lot of criticism on this post.
I believe it is spot on.

https://www.youtube.com/live/7IxsDZN-u5M?si=dD64KA23Bj5PRM4J

I have to say Lou’s constant rocking back and forth is a tad distracting. Not sure what that’s about. If he has some physical issue my apologies.

You don’t need alleged "top prophetic voices” for this. It is just common sense.

Will any person actually be surprised if there is some terror attack in the USA or the West? Of course we should be praying against such things.

Mike,

I'm sorry for being a Debbie Downer on this and for the record, I believe prophets walk the earth today (and I was saved under a prophets ministry in 1978) but a true prophet (to me), doesn't prophecy "general" prophecies that could or could not be true, their prophecies are specific and spot on and striking straight to the heart.

Exactly like 1 Cor 14:24-25 states, "But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all, the secrets of his heart are disclosed (laid bare), and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you.." (This is what is missing among the so-called prophetic today)

Like TDK said, "Will any person actually be surprised if there is some terror attack in the USA or the West? Of course we should be praying against such things." That is logical to ask with generalized prophecies.

Mike, I'm sorry if I disappointed you on this matter. Prophets are called to a much higher calling than just prophesying.

God bless you,
Lisa

Lysa,

Amen.

A prophet demonstrates his message, is his message.

The issue of the prophetic is the issue of truth, especially as we watch the mainstream "prophetic" implode before our very eyes... Again.

I started watching that video and was immediately grieved in my spirit and turned it off. The introductions alone are enough to make any discerning believer immediately doubt the authenticity of it, but there is something profoundly wrong.

I think what the church is failing to realize is that huge ministries as we know them, and have known them, especially "prophetic" ministries are going to come to a glaring end very soon, and the true expression of the community of Jesus will be shown to be those that are walking in daily, repetitive and seemingly mundane existences living out the sermon on the mount. The church is THE church, not A church. Simple believers following Jesus, rather than the trappings of the world with a sign that says it's a church.

I have had a lot on my spirit lately, but have been battling the fact that this message board is for some reason the only place the Lord will allow me to write or express His word. But that will be made known at some point, and until then, to obey is better than sacrifice.

TMK,
That rocking motion was all the rage in the IHOP movement years ago, it came from Engle, and everyone did it. I remember being in Kansas City and more than half of the people in their prayer room did that constantly.

Hi Lisa,

As leaders of intercession in Louisiana, we rely on those that we trust are hearing from the Lord. I have been very careful about endorsing any prophetic ministry, but what they shared on this Zoom call are many things that the Lord has been showing to the intercessors. Chris Reed has been very accurate with the prophesies that he has given, and his warnings should be heeded.

I knew that this post would not be a popular, but I post things that I believe to be true, and there is such a great need for prayer right now for the Church and for the nation.

Hi Mike,

I wasn't going to say anything either as I embrace true prophesy and prophets as a very necessary and essential part of local church life. We need more of it in the local bodies where encouragement and building up is so needed.

With that said, if you notice carefully during the conversations, many times you can see clearly a few of these folks reading emails on side screens or out of camera eye as others are delivering the prophetic words they feel God has given them on very critical topics. That is very concerning. Chris Reed may be a true prophet and very accurate. Yet, he seemed to be there but not there when others were speaking what they had to say. That isn't just a concern for respect or politeness. How can these words be prophetic if the other prophets have no regard for them as prophetic words. The prophets are subject to the prophets ?

Finally, in the past week and on this show especially and one other very notable prophet, I've heard that this season of Jewish history involving the war is the :

Generation of the Daniels
Generation of the Cyrus'
Generation of the Esthers
Generation of the Davids

Which is it. Can't be all. This isn't chaotic but it is very confusing. Instructive prophesy for building up the body should be consistent and clear or it isn't helpful.

And I will say this about Chris Reed. He made a comment on the show to start his contribution that he predicted in 2019 that Palestine would bring harm ( not exact words) to Israel and directly implied that this war is a fulfillment of his earlier prophesy ??

In fact, almost all of them started their contributions by saying they had some feeling or other general word that something was going to happen in Israel. Again, really?

The reality was that most of their words were a general interpretation of what God was going to do now in light of the war. Most of them said the negative consequences of the war that they were predicting could be avoided if we prayed.
One can never be wrong on a prophesy if that is the formula. Cbris Reed did the same thing on the Sid Roth show recently and Sid Roth called him out directly on the air for that kind of "prediction, but if we pray" word. It's a very common ploy that is actually Biblically supportable in some cases in the OT but is subject to abuse.

Quote: There will be a lot of criticism on this post.

Mike - Jesus and the apostles repeatedly warned that the last days would be characterized by widespread deception and a multitude of false prophets (Matt.24:3-5,11,24; 1 Tim.4:1)

People are right to be cautious and careful.

Reading the replies that you have recieved it seems people expect a higher standard of insight from men/women who claim to speak for God.

Which is a fair comment to make.

With that said what do you find so accurate in the video you shared?

Thanks for posting that Mike it was interesting and reminded me of a couple of prophecies I've received about three years ago that I did a few videos on.

I think Charlie shamp though only relatively Young is probably one of the most accurate prophets in my opinion, he is certainly a man of prayer and functions as a fiery evangelist doing evangelistic crusades in some very dangerous places like Pakistan. Has been doing corporate prayer every day five hours every morning at his headquarters and moravian falls.

What I've come to understand about prophets and prophetic ministries is unless you're involved in prophetic ministry of some sort and you've experienced a prophetic anointing, as a believer, we have very little understanding about the ministry of a prophet and those particular functions which obviously have their roots and foundations in the Old testament in reference to whether you are a Seer or a nabi or a chozeh

Not everything a prophet says is a prophecy in the same way not everything a teacher says is a teaching,
everyone still has their opinions and are still developing in understanding and trying to decipher revelation that has been given to each person.

Like each of the five fold ministers or each of the five separate functions of the anointing, people will still speak from discernment and from the witness in their own spirit from how they feel or how they interpret scripture and all those things play a part in a person's viewpoints whether you're a prophet or an evangelist.

Many unlearned people and even many learned people apply false assumptions upon prophet and apostles that they don't apply to pastors teachers and evangelists and others who may be aspiring to move into leadership and that is that everyone has to develop maturity of character regardless of who they are even once they're in leadership positions and they have to mature in their gifting and the development of their anointing and how that anointing function.

Many people have a limited Old testament filter in which they apply to Christians today and also selected verses from some of the law of Moses regarding whether prophet can make a mistake or get certain things wrong. What Is clear in scripture is even the greater prophet Moses and others like Isaiah prophesied things that never came to pass to the people that heard the prophecies.

Another thing that can get confusing is what people would call the gift of the word of knowledge which Chris Reid flows in quite remarkably which in Corinthians is probably called prophecy, this prophetic gifting is completely different to how some prophetic ministry operates when is more connected to personal prophetic exhortations.

And what many people don't understand about prophecy whether it be a dream or vision or a Nabi, bubbling up prophecy a thus says the Lord prophecy that comes in word form is that these prophecies have to be interpreted and the interpretation is where many people find there's a problem because just like scriptural prophecies interpretation is not something that you get as you read a prophecy there is many different interpretations when it comes to the book of Daniel book of revelations and Ezekiel and these are all coming from esteemed teachers and prophets and highly respected teachers yet only one is right ,the interpretation can be a very challenging thing because one often times one needs to receive a special revelation on what that interpretation actually is, with some prophecies the holy spirit or an angel will give the interpretation and then God conceals a matter so that we may seek the interpretation out through devotion.

We only know in part and prophesy in part and that includes the apostle Paul and the rest of the apostles, Paul was even referring to himself when he said that,so knowledge which comes through revelation is partial.

In a similar way scripture has one interpretation and multiple applications so does current prophecies which are given by the exact same spirit.

To decipher when you're receiving the actual interpretation to a prophecy or a dream or whether the holy spirit is giving you an application can be very challenging indeed and it's not something that's easy to discern when you're learning and growing in the gifting.

Just like it's probably a good idea to sit through some evangelistic training if your planning to do evangelistic ministry or to sit through some many months of pastoral training if you plan to disciple people or if you plan to do Bible study and teachings one should probably without doubt do some theological training to understand the different viewpoints of scripture.

And if you want to move into prophetic ministry of some sort or to understand how prophets operate and how prophetic ministry operates in its different functions one should do prophetic training and learn about the different functions from a matured prophetic minister and receive impartation and not just try to get understanding about this function from your own Bible study that is prone to failure guaranteed. We've been given teachers and prophets and pastors for the equipping ministry so that we can understand how these five anointings work and function in the body of Christ.

What I've noticed and me being included is this is not something that's necessarily taken seriously.

People tend to apply their own personal understanding when not having been trained in that ministry at all, whether it be online or in person and so the understanding of these things is very limited and then and then arguments arise and disagreements on how these things function.

And I have definitely been guilty of this in the past.😌✝️💜

But Gary what was "prophetic” about what these folks were saying in the video? It was no different from what I hear on Fox News, except they were talking about dreams they had that didn’t seem particularly insightful. We all dream. It is dicey to put too much stock in them. I have had exactly two dreams in many years that I know we’re from the Lord. If I wanted to be clever I could somehow claim that every dream I remember is from the Lord.

I think the bottom line is that what we witness in that video is no more prophetic than a preacher having a stray thought that seems pious, and using that stray thought at his pulpit, prefacing it with a "thus saith the Lord".

The word prophetic is possibly the most bastardized word in the christian vocabulary these days. God is jealous over prophetic and apostolic callings, whether office or gift, and what we are seeing unfold before us is the Father revealing, very clearly, that not all that glitters is gold. When men heralded as prophetic men are dropping like flies right before us, it behooves us as believers to take a step back and seek authenticity and the reality of God, not glitz and glamour that is more self promotion and marketing.

What is glaring is that these "prophets" revel in being called by that word, and seek the office and aspire to be these things. God's prophets and apostles don't aspire to the office, they are separated and sent by the Holy Spirit. Man has no say in that matter, not the man himself, or those around them.

Prophetic men speak the words of God. They don't interpret anything, and many times the speaker himself finds that his words are just as fresh and true for himself as for the audience to which he speaks. They aren't social commentators or interpreters of current events, they speak the mysteries of God. Many times they stand up to speak with absolutely no knowledge of what might be spoken, and find that out of that weakness God is glorified and His word goes forth in more power than if preparation was made before hand.

We are so far removed from true prophetic speakings that anything passes these days, and the video in the original post is proof positive.

The word prophetic is a precious word to me, and I believe it is infinitely more precious to God, and we are seeing Him clean house once again as the events in Israel unfold. Prophetic movements will be dashed to the ground in glaring ways in these last days, but interestingly people will still cling to the false no matter how glaring the falseness is revealed.

EDIT: The mere fact that there is a mindset that paperwork, mans approval (which truly prophetic men rarely, if ever receive), training, or anything else is a prerequisite for prophetic ministry is the point. Some might point to Samuel and his school, but the subjection of one prophet to another is in no way ministerial training or accreditation. We have so much of the world in us that it is no surprise what passes as prophetic in our day and age. Would that we forsake mans ways and designs and seek the God who speaks through the prophets, the living Word who dwelt and dwells among us, and in those who walk with Him.

Most believers these days equate prophecy with nothing more than fortune telling on a cosmic scale, when true prophecy may contain future events, the point of the messages delivered by true prophets is requirement from the people, not telling the future. You can point to the definition of the word all you want, but the fact remains, like many words, they all have depth and facets that only are revealed when held up to the true light, and this word is a prime example of such.

A prophet is a man who demonstrates his message, and lives in alignment with the one who speaks through Him. If a man is not his message, he is not a prophet. Prophetic ministry will never have New York times best selling books, be lauded on television or online talk shows, and will generally be found easiest by looking for the ones being cast out of the synagogues, as it were.

Anyway, its a tragedy how much is lost when the world sets the standards for the church.

Hi,

Just have a question regarding the word prophecy and the word prophetic. What is the difference?
I don't think I've seen the word prophetic in the Bible. Is it some new Christian term?
I know that the ic at the end of prophetic is a suffix and it would mean related to prophecy and prophets. If it is related is it really prophecy or something related to? 🤔 why can't people just say this is prophecy instead of it is is a prophetic word. I just want to understand this.
Thank you

Todd I'm not sure you're really asking me a question so I won't point out the parts of the video that maybe considered prophetic.

I'm hearing you say you listened to the video and don't find it prophetic.

I'm sure many people have their own definition on what prophetic means, I would say that when you've received a dream or a vision from the Lord or a prophecy that when you expound upon that prophecy and you explain it and communicate it with others whether it be in a pulpit or in a group setting that would be considered part of prophetic ministry and that would be considered prophetic words.

Often times it's dealing with future events that will take place that has been revealed by the spirit and it deals with wisdom and knowing what to do and how to pray in Unity prophetic words in this context would be to create a unified intercessory group of people who receive inspiration to pray in the spirit for the specific things that the Lord would have us pray for also that the thing prophesied would come to pass through the prayers of the Saints.

In the same way evangelistic preaching contains an impartation when it is received by the hearer a person can be born again and receive the spirit through an imparted word of evangelism, so does prophecy and expounding on prophecy prophetic words contain an impartation which in other words would be called a gift of Grace that can be received through the word which empowers the hearer to move into places of intercession, places of faith and hope for the future the otherwise would not be received through normal teaching of the alimentary principles of the doctrines of Christ as mentioned in the letter to the Hebrews.

Each type of 5 fold ministry and anointing contains a special Grace that is can be received to build up and edify the body of Christ in a way that only that Pacific ministry and anointing can achieve.

But if one despises prophecy or forbids it or mocks it it's very unlikely that one will receive Grace from that same ministry gifting or anointing, down playing prophecy and prophetic preaching to equate with normal evangelistic preaching or teaching or pastoral ministry will obviously shut one off to the graces that comes through prophetic ministry and apostolic ministry can be put in the similar category.

Gifts and abilities can be imparted through those two ministry functions that can't necessarily be imparted through the other three on their own.

This type of prophetic ministry has the ability to stir up dormant gifts that have been quenched in the past through sin or lackluster devotional life, to awaken up ones conscience of sin and sensitivity to the basic moving of the holy spirit and basic functions of the spirit.

Wisdom and revelatory knowledge is shared and received through prophecy and prophetic preaching and ministry.

And I would say this is only scratching the surface of what could be said about the importance of prophecy and the ministry of the prophet and being able to teach on prophecy and apply prophetic words to make a practical effect in a Christians devotional life and upon their callings.

In case Robert Youlboun is reading this, much of what is called prophetic ministry today in the church is a big part of what what people call using the gift of the word of knowledge, to call out and discern sickness and then to declare healing over a person who has been highlighted through that gift but not only that also discerning numerous different categories of private information that only that person would probably know, to create a Faith for that person and an experience that speaks to their heart they've God is listening to them and god knows them personally and this has a very powerful effect on comforting edifying building up and exhorting the believers in the faith in tandem with that gift of the World of Knowledge the gift of prophecy and miracles are often used in that setting.

Chris Reid is probably one of the most developed in that type of ministry.

A good example of that in Chris's ministry is telling a certain person the dream they had the night before and then interpreting their dream and then applying the interpretation whereby the person receives an impartation or something to that effect.

Gary,

I say this with respect and out of concern, but most of what you're writing is nonsensical, hyper charismatic cliche. It dangerously approaches being completely rooted in soulish experience, if it hasn't already arrived there.

I could read much of that in Nietzsche or Freud, as it's just a reinterpretation of the worlds psychology (psyche logia, study of the soul), and formulated to draw people to the preacher, not Christ. It's rooted and grounded in soulish tropes, and if any of it were even remotely true, and that many people were operating in these offices in spirit and in truth, or as Peter says it, not interpreting things, but speaking the words of God being carried about by the Holy Spirit, than we would see a very different religious and spiritual climate in the world.

Alas, we don't because this type of thing can be found in just as many psychologists offices as it can be pulpits and churches.

Satan mocks these things... Paul I know, Jesus I know, but who are you? And while men seek dreams and visions, fortune tellers and future events, God says as He did before, I didn't send these prophets, they ran into these ministries of their own volition and human self sufficiency and effort.

We shall consider it perfectly in the latter days... would that we would consider it, because these are the latter days.

EDIT: Regarding your view of the word of knowledge... Why is it do you think that people flock to these preachers for some experience of affirmation that God knows them... This alone is the most concerning part of your views, because if it takes some preacher declaring over someone for them to have reassurance that God knows them (the devil can also know these details about people by the way), what does that say about them? I need no man to tell me I am known of God, that is the role of the Holy Spirit, and He does this without mans help.

This alone is enough for me to completely discount these views, because this alone is borderline blasphemous. Jesus taught the exact opposite of this throughout His ministry, and we see it specifically stated that men will not teach each other saying know the Lord, because they will all know Him; truly born again believers have God indwelling them, witnessing to them they are children of God. Eternal life is knowing God personally, without any man telling us whether or not we do.

That is religion at its very purest, relying on men to tell you God knows you. Catholicism does this, just using different methods. Judaism does this, just using different methods. Apostasy does this, using this, and other methods. I wasn't even aware this practice was still prevalent in charismatic churches... or that this was something still taught and believed.

There truly is nothing new under the sun.

I am glad however you added that nugget, because there is no more fence for me to stand on regarding your views.

The holy spirit functions and operates through the gifts of the spirit for the building up and edifying of the body of Christ we don't have the capacity as loan rangers to reach any high levels of maturity and edification Alone it is done through a corporate reality , because together we are the body of Christ. That's just (Pride) to suggest that you don't need other believers for council and lift up and and comfort and encourage.

3But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. 4He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; [a]for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

Where did I say we didn't need fellowship or the body of Christ?

Maybe I mistyped or wasn't clear, as anyone who knows me knows I don't believe that, or teach that.

If you're referencing what i said in my edit, you've burned a straw man.

I always hear the either/or fallacy coming from hyper charismatic types: either you follow our prophets, OR you're a dead fundamentalist.

I can reject heresy and still operate in these gifts. It's almost like they claim these gifts exclusively for their group, so they can justify the weird stuff and excesses, and if people don't accept the weird stuff with the genuine, like a package deal, they're Pharisees.

How many, many times I've heard people, whether it's in a sermon or to me personally, say they have a "word from the Lord", only to have it be so vague as to be untestable, and when it is testable and doesn't come true they say prophecy is different today than in the Old Testament times, so they are not a false prophet.

Just turn on any youtube psychic channel and they say things like "this will be the year of financial prosperity" or "this is a season of breakthrough" or other stuff so general it could apply to anyone.

Funny how not many people listen to the "doom and gloom" prophets that say the church will face intense persecution or the church needs to repent deeply etc. Rather like the OT prophets, no? Everyone flocks to the ear ticklers, while the heartbroken man of God can hardly get an audience.

Found this interesting youtube video from the Messed up church, posting it as it mentions Chris Reed and you can clearly see he is reading information off his phone at a IHOP event.

https://youtu.be/Eyfxf6VPyj4?si=mhgl8DYNr6PDbop5

The guys goes on to show what others are doing and then looks later at Chris Reed prophecy about the $50 bill..

Col do you realise you're watching edited videos by non a non charismatic Lutheran, who would put you in the same basket Case because of your belief in gifts of the spirit. Who also sells products on his YouTube messed up page.

It's not uncommon for prophetic people to receive information before the meetings through either vision or prophetic words and then read them in the meeting it's pretty normal actually.

You should probably watch some unedited videos of Chris before you take sides with someone who would condemn you as well.
I've probably watched 20 or 30 hours of Chris ministry in the words of knowledge AND prophecy and never seen anything that would be considered fake.

Nigel that would definitely be wrong for someone to do what you said. ( About following their prophets)

Bot I've constantly heard for the last 15 20 years actually more than that , the same thing said by esteemed fundamentalist leaders and reformed Christians and even charismatic Christians and standard mainline denominations that unless you believe what they believe and follow the same preachers then you're disqualified. And if you really want to be honest with yourself you might be saying that as well , that's what you seem to do on sermon index, anyone that's following the so-called nar group or the hyper charismatics are all put in the same basket by you and a few others here.

I'm not putting all NAR people (a name coined by C. Peter Wagner, by the way) in the same box. I have acknowledged numerous times that there are undoubtedly genuine believers among them.

And I agree with you that guys like John MacArthur and Justin Peters tend to go too far in lumping all charismatic and pentecostals together.

What does concern me, though, is the crazily unbiblical practices many NAR leaders and their disciples engage in, the total lack of discernment and church discipline ("don't judge!"), and the strong ties to the prosperity gospel.

To me they're a lot like the Seventh Day Adventists or Roman Catholics; there are true believers among their ranks, but their theology/practices do not lend themselves to making strong, mature believers.

It's a miracle that people get saved at all in most churches. And when I say that I include all denominations.

by yulboum on 2023/11/2 20:25:30

Hi,

Just have a question regarding the word prophecy and the word prophetic. What is the difference?
I don't think I've seen the word prophetic in the Bible. Is it some new Christian term?
I know that the ic at the end of prophetic is a suffix and it would mean related to prophecy and prophets. If it is related is it really prophecy or something related to? 🤔 why can't people just say this is prophecy instead of it is is a prophetic word. I just want to understand this.
Thank you

There is a difference between the gift of prophecy and being a true prophet and one example is when Nathan walked into where David was dining and declared, "Thou are the man!" and then spoke the very voice of God to David in 1 Samuel 12:6-14.

Chris Reed may very well be "called" to occupy the office of a prophet but like all the gifts of the Spirit, gifts and callings are a process that comes with experience on our knees, not in the pulpit.

But that's my take, God bless,
Lisa

Colin,

I haven't watched anything about these guys, didn't even know they existed until recently. When I was calling them fortune tellers I wasn't aware that was literally what they did.

I can't even believe how many people fall for this. It brings to remembrance Simon the sorcerer in Acts.

If this is what the church considers prophetic ministry, no wonder men like myself are hated and called false teachers and ridiculed when we speak or write. I have a hard time talking about my calling, as I have a hard time believing it myself because of who I am and was, but I can't escape it and often it feels like a burden to heavy to carry, and drives me deep into reliance on Jesus, especially when things I say are almost universally rebuked and said to be false and heretical.

Context to what the church thinks is true is scary...

What I saw in that video is incredibly grievous... I almost want to believe it's fake.

Hi Lisa,

Thank you for clarifying this definition and making a distinction between what a prophet is and what a gift is.

I heard of these people and I would say that most of these people are false prophets as they have prophecied so much wrong

They didn't get the things on COVID right , they didn't get the election of Donald trump correct , a broken clock is more correct than most of these false prophets

As some of these people prophecied that trump would get in and he didn't
It reminds me of the group of prophets in the bible that ahaz wouldnt die and 400 prophets prophecied that he wouldn't die and Micah prophecied that he would and he got put in prison for it

I seen some of there Tv shows and some of it is a mockery to the bible and god's word
As some of these people are on the Elijah list

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect

This is what I mean when we are living in the time of Jeremiah 28
10 Then Hananiah the prophet took the yoke from off the prophet Jeremiah's neck, and brake it. (Compare)

11 And Hananiah spake in the presence of all the people, saying, Thus saith the LORD; Even so will I break the yoke of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon from the neck of all nations within the space of two full years. And the prophet Jeremiah went his way.

12 Then the word of the LORD came unto Jeremiah the prophet, after that Hananiah the prophet had broken the yoke from off the neck of the prophet Jeremiah, saying,

13 Go and tell Hananiah, saying, Thus saith the LORD; Thou hast broken the yokes of wood; but thou shalt make for them yokes of iron.

14 For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; I have put a yoke of iron upon the neck of all these nations, that they may serve Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon; and they shall serve him: and I have given him the beasts of the field also.

15 Then said the prophet Jeremiah unto Hananiah the prophet, Hear now, Hananiah; The LORD hath not sent thee; but thou makest this people to trust in a lie.

Jeremiah 5:31
31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

It is so sad that these people get such a large following and people who believe in actual biblical prophecy as I do believe in prophecy

It is hard as we do not have a love of the truth
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved

As I know some of these guys and some of there meetings are like circuses and you can use bingo words as they use catchphrase as they say nothing of value in there words or do not predict specific things , everything is vague

The worst thing is they denigrate the third person of the trinity
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

I believe in prophecy but we have a bible and I believe God can give prophecy for today

There is so many biblical prophecy that has yet to be fulfilled , I do not want to despise prophecy but I do despise false prophets such as these who have predicted many things wrong as I know as I used to work in the Christian bookshop

It is a who who of charlatans

Why cant we be like John Bunyan who pricked himself and a bible verse came out
Sometime I feel like Jeremiah that noone listens

Paul in berea was tested by the old testament every word that he said , we have sunk so low

I know Walter Martin who did the kingdom of the cults had a standard , I know when working at the Christian bookshop all I was crying out for which books that followed his very low standard , I found very few.

1 Thessalonians 5:20-21
English Standard Version
20 Do not despise prophecies, 21 but test everything; hold fast what is good

I do not want to despise prophecy but do we test prophecy and see if it is true

As I have had so many prophetic words over me that have simply been a lie as I am from a charasmatic background

There are so many people I know that have fallen away due to lies being prophecied over them

As the holy spirit is the spirit of truth and he is one of the third members of the trinity
He is the most abused member of the trinity

These peddlers and gainsayers make me sick to my stomach as they treat the bible with no respect

Anainais and sapphire found that out to late

Acts 5
1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,

2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? note

4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God

They lied to the holy spirit and they died

When are people going to wake up and read the bible for themselves and not follow these false prophets
I believe in prophecy but it has to be tested against scripture

Hi ES,

I was intrigued and curious by your last post. I am not being critical with my request or setting you up. Is there a way for you to communicate how and into what God has called you as you referenced. Private email or if you feel comfortable with it, a post ? I'm truly interested. I don't think you are a heretic at all. I'm impressed with many of your posts and the character that seems to come through them.
Feeling alone in these times is going to be a common experience by those attempting to stay close to Him and be used by Him because the messages He gives aren't going to be appealing to most. The crowded stream is often going in the wrong direction in times of stress and in times of His movements. that's historical and Biblical.

Give me some time and I will get back with you.

As a side note regarding false prophets, parallel todays Proverb with 2 Peter chapter 2 and how false prophets use sensual deceptions and soulish drawing to make merchandise of the deceived, it's a staggering parallel.

thanks.

I'll take a look at the passages.

I haven't been on here in a while but ESchaible has truly blessed my spirit and soul from what he wrote on this thread.

He articulated the truth so well concerning the false teaching and deception among so many of those that call themselves prophets today.

The sad truth is...many don't appreciate the whole truth of the gospel message of the cross that crucifies self interests and agendas.

The man/woman of God who has paid the price of self-denying and whose only desire is to promote Christ from a selfless perspective or gain is persecuted.

This quote right here from ES is so powerful and I surly appreciate it.

(-quoted from ES-

if it takes some preacher declaring over someone for them to have reassurance that God knows them (the devil can also know these details about people by the way), what does that say about them? I need no man to tell me I am known of God, that is the role of the Holy Spirit, and He does this without mans help.

This alone is enough for me to completely discount these views, because this alone is borderline blasphemous. Jesus taught the exact opposite of this throughout His ministry, and we see it specifically stated that men will not teach each other saying know the Lord, because they will all know Him; truly born again believers have God indwelling them, witnessing to them they are children of God. Eternal life is knowing God personally, without any man telling us whether or not we do.

That is religion at its very purest, relying on men to tell you God knows you. Catholicism does this, just using different methods. Judaism does this, just using different methods. Apostasy does this, using this, and other methods.

-end quote-)

Dear Lord help us today who truly desire to follow you, to truly deny ourselves and take up our cross to hear your voice above our own fleshly desires.

Blessings to all in Christ Love!

(-quoted from ES-

"if it takes some preacher declaring over someone for them to have reassurance that God knows them (the devil can also know these details about people by the way), what does that say about them? I need no man to tell me I am known of God, that is the role of the Holy Spirit, and He does this without mans help."

It is good brother that you know these things, and that you have need of no man to speak to you of these things, but there are young believers, babes in Christ that do not know these things, and need to hear words both from the Word and prophetically that will establish them in the faith.

But [on the other hand] the one who prophesies speaks to people for edification [to promote their spiritual growth] and [speaks words of] encouragement [to uphold and advise them concerning the matters of God] and [speaks words of] consolation [to compassionately comfort them]. (1 Corinthians 14:3)

Blessings brother Mike,
How do you interpret these scriptures?

Hebrews 8:10-11 (KJV) 10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

1 John 2:27 (KJV) But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Brother, I interpret these Scriptures just like they are stated. The Holy Spirit is the teacher of the church, the Holy Spirit lives within us, and the Holy Spirit leads us and guides us into all truth, but there is a Prophetic gift for the body of Christ. There are Prophets-and there is the gift of prophecy that has been given to various members of the Body. We are told in scripture to seek after the best gifts.

"Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy.” (1 Corinthians 14:1)

Well, to take liberty to speak…

We agree with all the scriptures brother … but not the fleshly use of man centeredness as lording over people as merchandise…

Mike,

I don't expect to convince you of anything, but I will just submit to you an appeal to look at Jesus clear teaching regarding this topic. "This is eternal life..." Etc.

He wasn't ambiguous in this regard, or concerning His warnings about false prophets. Our problem is we sympathize more with men than with God, and prefer to err on not hurting someone's feelings or "judging to harshly", even if it means glaring compromise of clear scripture.

To understand prophecy in the way that you, and many others would have me understand it, is to render most of the Bible meaningless and void it of significance.

It takes a special kind of deception to run to men to be told God knows you, but an even deeper and more special kind to be the one telling men God knows them, when scripture is clear from Genesis to Revelation that this is the polar opposite of God's purpose in redemption.

The world system, the spiritual powers, Satan himself, look to exactly this type of deception to employ, because of how effective it is. People who know nothing of God are told by a fortune teller that God knows them, simply because they can divine a dream, a few numbers from their address, or some other obscure and meaningless detail.

It's clearly false and found nowhere in my Bible. My Lord Jesus warned me of this falseness, by name in fact, and told me before hand of this exact type of false prophet.

He told you too, if you would hear Him.

EDIT: Regarding what you said about "babes in Christ" needing these affirming words... In my experience I find this to be exactly the opposite of true. I find that the most blindly zealous and overly enthusiastic believers to be the young in the faith. The freshness of their salvation and the strong witness the Holy Spirit bears to them is often the only driving force they need to burst out into all sorts of fleshly pursuits and service. The Corinthian church comes to mind, as well as the prophetic movement of today that is a glaring resemblance in many ways of the ancient Corinthians, albeit a bit more sinister given what they say and practice.

John speaks oppositely as well about "young men", saying they know the Lord. In fact, everything bearing Johns authorship speaks emphatically against this belief in needing to know from men that we are known of God. The entirety of 1st John is almost dedicated to refuting this teaching.

But again, I can convince no one, "who is sufficient for these things?". Certainly not me, as is evidenced by the lack of spiritually persuasive power in my writing. In another thread we were exhorted by a dear brother about the way we come across in these discussions, perhaps that is something I need to look further into...

rbanks, good to see you again!!

God bless you brother!!

"Brother, I interpret these Scriptures just like they are stated..."
Then you might also be interested in vers 3

On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation (ESV)

And here is the Ampl. Translation:
But [on the other hand] the one who prophesies speaks to people for edification [to promote their spiritual growth] and [speaks words of] encouragement [to uphold and advise them concerning the matters of God] and [speaks words of] consolation [to compassionately comfort them].
(1 Corinthians 14:3)

Mike,

I wanted to add my edit from below as it's own post, I think it speaks more directly to what we are discussing.

EDIT: Regarding what you said about "babes in Christ" needing these affirming words... In my experience I find this to be exactly the opposite of true. I find that the most blindly zealous and overly enthusiastic believers to be the young in the faith. The freshness of their salvation and the strong witness the Holy Spirit bears to them is often the only driving force they need to burst out into all sorts of fleshly pursuits and service. The Corinthian church comes to mind, as well as the prophetic movement of today that is a glaring resemblance in many ways of the ancient Corinthians, albeit a bit more sinister given what they say and practice.

John speaks oppositely as well about "young men", saying they know the Lord. In fact, everything bearing Johns authorship speaks emphatically against this belief in needing to know from men that we are known of God. The entirety of 1st John is almost dedicated to refuting this teaching.

But again, I can convince no one, "who is sufficient for these things?". Certainly not me, as is evidenced by the lack of spiritually persuasive power in my writing. In another thread we were exhorted by a dear brother about the way we come across in these discussions, perhaps that is something I need to look further into...

The thing that I think is at least concerning is that many of the prophesies pick up OT characters and stories and use those as prophetic guidance. It’s always the generation of Davids, Esthers, Daniels, John the Baptists, etc that are prophesied. What about the call to imitate Paul as he imitates Christ or the call to walk as He walked or the call to Timothy to be an example to others of faith, love and purity. It seems the supposed prophetic often is attracted to speaking of OT characters who actually have their true spiritual fulfilling in Jesus as the substance and not the shadow. Why not a generation of Jesus ? That’s how the NT prophets, apostles and teachers spoke. The resort to OT stories is a step backwards to the lesser. Call young people (and old) to imitate and be Jesus or let Jesus be Himself in His people. That’s the call on his people for such a time as this. There, I’m a prophet. :)

Blessings to all!

Thanks Lisa…God bless you sister! It is good to see you are still strong in your love for the Lord!

"Call young people (and old) to imitate and be Jesus or let Jesus be Himself in His people. That’s the call on his people for such a time as this. There, I’m a prophet. :) "

That a more profoundly prophetic statement that anything the "prophetic movement" has spoken in possibly decades.

Let Jesus be Himself in (and I would add as, and, through) His people.

Amen.

Amen brethren!

One other clarifying aspect here is that the gift of prophecy is a temporary usage of a vessel for God to speak, I have witnessed and heard this gift in operation many times.

The office of prophet is a man set apart by God to live that life, bearing the cross and interceding in his every moment to demonstrate the message he bares, and the One that speaks through Him.

The gift and the office operate the same, one is given as the Spirit wills, the other an office/life of a man set apart for God and His purposes.

Hi,

”­Revelation”¬ ”­2:12”­-”¬17”¬ ”­BSB”¬
[12] To the angel of the church in Pergamum write: These are the words of the One who holds the sharp, double-edged sword. [13] I know where you live, where the throne of Satan sits. Yet you have held fast to My name and have not denied your faith in Me, even in the day when My faithful witness Antipas was killed among you, where Satan dwells. [14] But I have a few things against you, because some of you hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to place a stumbling block before the Israelites so they would eat food sacrificed to idols and commit sexual immorality. [15] In the same way, some of you also hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans. [16] Therefore repent! Otherwise I will come to you shortly and wage war against them with the sword of My mouth. [17] He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who overcomes, I will give the hidden manna. I will also give him a white stone inscribed with a new name, known only to the one who receives it.

The word Nicolaitans mean victorious over the people.
The NAR, Dominionist people talk about the 7 mountains and how Christians need to take all 7 mountains in oder for Christ to return right? If this is what they believe, are they the Nicolaitans that the Bible is warning us about? Hmm

Hi

I can't walk past this post, thank you for posting it on here. My name is Colin which is derived from the name Nicholas. If you fiddle about with my name - you'll see the Nicol- my name has two meanings ”“ one of these meanings is victorious people ”“ (the other meaning is derived from Gaelic)

For years God has been speaking to me about an end time victorious people the very opposite of what you mention - Nicolaitans mean victorious over the people.

When I would search for "victorious people” I would find this teaching from the Manifest Sons of God teaching of the latter rain movement. Now you could say that this teaching is related to the seven mountains teaching because it’s about a Victorious Christian army ”“ I can also remember Tod Bently banging on about this back in the day - I don't believe it is a false teaching.

Now if you look at scripture about the end time people of God you'll find that they are severely persecuted but remain victorious to the end. I have mentioned this scripture many times on here but will do it again simply because this burns in me.

Rev 15:2 CEV Then I saw something that looked like a glass sea mixed with fire, and people were standing on it. They were the ones who had defeated the beast and the idol and the number that tells the name of the beast. God had given them harps.

My friend there is the end time victorious people. a people who have defeated the beast, the idol and the name of the beast.

Now what you mention - I have found out what "the teaching of the Nicolaitans" is which you'll find below and again thanks for posting.

It is significant that the "deeds” and "doctrines” of the Nicolaitans are only mentioned in connection with the churches in these two occultic and pagan cities. It seems that the "doctrine” of the Nicolaitans was that it was all right to have one foot in both worlds and that one needn’t be so strict about separation from the world in order to be a Christian. This, in fact, was the "doctrine” of the Nicolaitans that Jesus "hated.” It led to a weak version of Christianity that was without power and without conviction ”” a defeated, worldly type of Christianity.

Nicolas’ deep roots in paganism may have produced in him a tolerance for occultism and paganism. Growing up in this perverted spiritual environment may have caused him to view these belief systems as not so damaging or dangerous. This wrong perception would have resulted in a very liberal viewpoint that encouraged people to stay connected to the world. This is what numerous Bible scholars believe about the Nicolaitans.

This kind of teaching would result in nothing but total defeat for its followers. When believers allow sin and compromise to be in their lives, it drains away the power in the work of the Cross and the power of the Spirit that is resident in a believer’s life. This is the reason the name Nicolas is so vital to this discussion. The evil fruit of Nicolas’ "doctrine” encouraged worldly participation, leading people to indulge in sin and a lowered godly standard. In this way he literally conquered the people

https://renner.org/article/who-were-the-nicolaitans-and-what-was-their-doctrine-and-deeds/#:~:text=It%20seems%20that%20the%20%E2%80%9Cdoctrine,order%20to%20be%20a%20Christian.

Now ”“ If this is not a picture of the church in today’s world ”“ having a form of Godliness but denying the power, having feet in two camps?

I am a seeker of holiness and in my quest, I have been encouraged to look at the New Covenant to find out exactly what’s in it. With that said I went straight to a message from Carter Conlon message on this subject and found out that God did a marvelous work in his life and he preached many sermons from that experience. David Wilkerson heard this message and took it further than Carter could, that is his own words and wrote a book.

Last night I came across that book from David Wilkerson ”“ The New Covenant Unveiled ”“ God’s Plan to free the last days church from the power of sin.

"The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him and he will show them his covenant." ~ Psalm 25:14.

The truth of the New Covenant has been hidden for many years, but the Holy Spirit is unveiling it now to his church. It is assuredly the most liberating, sin-destroying secret of God's heart. In this book, David Wilkerson helps you to open your heart to the truth, believe it, pray for an understanding of it, and allow you to experience a release of power over all dominion of sin.

https://www.amazon.com/New-Covenant-Unveiled-David-Wilkerson/dp/B001LINF16

As a side note when I was listening to Carter Conlon message I got a revelation in relation to what God wants. He wants us to get to place of relationship we had in the Garden of Eden.

And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling place a of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people and God himself will be with them as their God. Rev 21:3

Here is revelation, the part of us "you'll be like God" must be dealt with which is nothing more or less than Sin and Self but thank God it's been done on the cross.

God wants to be your God and he wants us to be his people. I thank God through Jesus Christ it possible.

Hi Colin,

Thank you for your explaining about the doctrine of the Nicolaitans and the link you sent. It is very insightful and learned something new.
I was curious if there was a connection between the Nicolaitans and the NAR movement which the people on the prophetic panel are heavily involved.

I too believe that the church will be victorious in the end times but it is through our Lord Jesus Christ. It will be like how the Israelites were victorious over the army of Pharaoh by being still and knowing that the LORD is God.

”­Exodus”¬ ”­14:13”­-”¬14”¬ ”­BSB”¬
[13] But Moses told the people, "Do not be afraid. Stand firm and you will see the Lord’s salvation, which He will accomplish for you today; for the Egyptians you see today, you will never see again. [14] The Lord will fight for you; you need only to be still"

”­Revelation”¬ ”­12:11”¬ ”­BSB”¬
[11] They have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony. And they did not love their lives so as to shy away from death.

And thank you for recommending the New Covenant Unveiled by David Wilkerson. I read his other book, "The Cross and the Switchblade' and God touched my heart through it.

God bless you brother and keep up the good work in Christ Jesus.

Col do you realise you're watching edited videos by non a non charismatic Lutheran, who would put you in the same basket Case because of your belief in gifts of the spirit. Who also sells products on his YouTube messed up page.

It's not uncommon for prophetic people to receive information before the meetings through either vision or prophetic words and then read them in the meeting it's pretty normal actually.

You should probably watch some unedited videos of Chris before you take sides with someone who would condemn you as well.
I've probably watched 20 or 30 hours of Chris ministry in the words of knowledge AND prophecy and never seen anything that would be considered fake.

I am a pentacostal, and have listened to some of these guys unedited quite a bit. I do not think there is one shred of prophetic anything with the group in this video. One of them in particular pays himself over 2 million dollars a year to speak sentences totally devoid of meaning (and I mean literally nonsense, doubletalk, that has no coherent meaning) and talk about all of the angels that he sees and what they are telling him.

I would not trust one word that comes from any of them to be honest.

Here is a good example of the nonsense sentences and paragraphs I am talking about. This is the transcript from the person's own website. This is a word of "prophecy".

I heard the spirit of God say this, "You might be at the bottom of the pile you’re in right now, but I’ll get to you. Quit trying to get to the top of the pile because I’m coming to you, and I will make sure everything is cast away ’til I get to you. And then when I get to you and I cast you up in the wind, you might end up at the top of another pile.” So the Lord says, "You get ready. I will find you this season, and I will dig off what’s been on you this last season. I will make sure it comes off of you. But then you get ready to catch the wind when I throw you up into it because you don’t know where you’re gonna land in the future.”

Just absolute nonsense.

When are people going to wake up and read the bible for themselves and not follow these false prophets
I believe in prophecy but it has to be tested against scripture

Dom: Good question, and one that needs to be asked more often. But we knew this was coming.

2 Peter 2:1-3 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

Jesus in Matthew 24: 23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.

I think it is important to make this distinction. There are those out there that are truly false prophets. They hear from familiar spirits and other spirits that are not God. They hear from their own minds, desires, and lusts. They intentionally twist scripture to support very aberrant doctrines.

And then there are those very precious people who are led astray by these false prophets. They are generally people with a genuine love for and relationship with God. They want the truth but they have been searching in all the wrong places. This is the vast majority, in my opinion, of these movements.

So what do we do? Paul is clear. Call out "mark" and avoid the false teachers. But lovingly and gently teach the deceived.

Hi

I can't walk past this post, thank you for posting it on here. My name is Colin which is derived from the name Nicholas. If you fiddle about with my name - you'll see the Nicol- my name has two meanings ”“ one of these meanings is victorious people ”“ (the other meaning is derived from Gaelic)

Collin: I very much enjoyed your perspective. If I can, I would like to add to it some of what I am seeing.

There absolutely is an victorious church that sees the physical return of Jesus Christ. But it is not the church that many of the people this post is about are teaching.

The predominant view of these teachers is dominion theology. They may deny that term, but they teach it all the same, the idea that the church rises up and takes dominion over the Earth, setting up a Kingdom of God for Jesus to return and rule over. They teach the seven mountains because this is the way they see it happening, by taking over influence in all areas of society.

But this is not the picture painted in scripture of the end-time victorious church. They are pure, they are powerful, and they are often persecuted and often put to death. It is not doom and gloom. It is the reality that Jesus will have a pure bride, tried by fire. But hasn't this always been the case? Sure, there have been periods of time when nations were, for the most part Christianized, having the influence of Biblical principle in their laws and culture. But even in these nations, the majority of the people were like the Nicolaitans, having one foot in the world and one foot in the church. They have proclaimed that they are Christians because of their heritage or national identity, but they have denied the power that would have transformed their lives. Attempting to "take over influence" in the seven mountains may make the national culture more comfortable for Christians for a time, but it will not bring about true transformation in the hearts of men.

So I like what you said in summary,

Here is revelation, the part of us "you'll be like God" must be dealt with which is nothing more or less than Sin and Self but thank God it's been done on the cross.

God wants to be your God and he wants us to be his people. I thank God through Jesus Christ it possible.