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A Response to the Allegations against Mike Bickle from two former Colleagues
December 18, 2023 by Sam Storms 38 Comments

Dear Friends,

We write to you today with sorrowful hearts. As many of you know, we both served on the senior leadership team at Metro Christian Fellowship (MCF) alongside Mike Bickle ”“ Michael from 1987-2000 and Sam from 1993-2000. During those years, we were in (what we felt was) close fellowship with Mike and Diane - meeting as couples multiple times every month. This camaraderie continued until such time as Mike stepped down as lead pastor at MCF to form IHOPKC as an independent ministry.

We were unaware of Mike meeting with or traveling in the company of young women during this time. Mike was able to successfully hide from us this dimension of his life. He never came to us with a request for prayer or with some confession of weakness and an appeal to hold him accountable. If he had, we would have faithfully stepped in to help our friend in whatever way we could.

We were made aware of the allegations of clergy sexual abuse at different times over the past several months. We have now both spoken extensively with one of the primary Jane Does and her husband and believe what she has said about the sexual nature of their interaction. In her own words, it involved everything short of sexual intercourse. There is no reason to doubt the accuracy of her testimony. Our hearts break for what she suffered and for the ongoing grief this horrific injustice has caused her and her family.”¯

Sam and Francis Chan attempted to visit Mike at his home on October 31 where Chris Reed turned them away at the door. He said that Mike had been instructed not to meet or speak with anyone, which Mike later confirmed in a brief email to Sam. We were subsequently informed that Mike was following the counsel of Eric Volz.

As a matter of conscience, we write now to publicly state that we believe Jane Doe.”¯ We deeply regret not being aware of her situation at the time it occurred. We have now been made aware of additional allegations directed at Mike for behavior subsequent to his relationship with Jane Doe. These are grievous and weighty.”¯ However, it is not our intent to address the legitimacy of those charges. That is the responsibility of whatever third party is secured to conduct a thorough investigation of what may or may not have happened in the context of IHOPKC for the past 23 years.

It is our opinion that Mike’s most recent statement, while potentially a step in the right direction, is woefully inadequate. What is most lacking in it is explicitly owning the sin he committed against Jane Doe(s), repenting, and asking for forgiveness. Regrettably, Jane Doe is nowhere mentioned in the written statement he released.”¯

We appeal to Mike, as long-standing friends and colleagues who have loved him and Diane, to search his heart and plead with the Holy Spirit to disclose any other sins committed. We pray that by God’s grace he will find the spiritual courage to confess such sins, wholeheartedly repent, face the consequences, and humbly pursue the restoration and healing of anyone he has wounded. It is our love for Mike that constrains us to write this letter and call him to more open and vulnerable official examination for his confessed duplicity and moral failures as a Christian and a ministry leader.

Our sincere and heartfelt appeal is that the ELT at IHOPKC and the Advocate group will together pursue an acceptable independent, third-party investigation. There is little hope that the truth will come to light, leading to a resolution of this matter, until such time as everyone involved cooperates fully with the investigative body.

Mature and compassionate spiritual leadership requires that we do not hurt those entrusted to our care. Lying when confronted with the truth, creating division in the body of Christ by intentionally preaching about betrayal and false accusation after being informed that allegations were forthcoming, lawyering up, making minimal concessions in lieu of true confession, and indiscriminately managing an image of oneself is the opposite of what a spiritually mature response should be to a crisis of this nature.

Christian leaders steward a holy calling and are held to a higher standard by God for living above reproach. By this, a leader embraces the risk that any undealt with and/or unconfessed sin patterns may be publicly exposed if they are disqualifying in nature and scope. Beyond this, leaders ought to welcome a lifestyle of transparency before family, friends, governing boards, and constituents. We believe Mike has had every opportunity to vulnerably share any temptations or struggles with sin with fellow leaders in order to find God’s mercy and pathway to wholeness. Sadly, we believe he has not remained faithful to this commitment, but rather engaged in deceptive and manipulative actions to exploit the vulnerability of a godly young woman. As such, we are in firm agreement with Mike stepping down from Christian ministry.

The painful ripple effects of this sin have been felt far and wide. We grieve hearing the voices of hurt, angry, confused, and disillusioned current and former members of IHOPKC, and its related ministries. We urge you all to find safe people in your life to pray for you and support you as you process your experience. We pray for the peace and grace of God to be with you and upon you all.

Bearing with you in spirit,

Sam Storms
Michael Sullivant”¯

Please pray for mercy for Mike Bickle. While I agree he is disqualified from public ministry, I believe there is still a place of repentance for him.

Pray also for his family and any of the young women hurt by his actions.

Let this be a warning for the body of Christ,

1. To live above reproach and run from sin, especially lust. Confess it immediately to God and to a trusted fellow christian, if possible.

2. To not put leaders on a pedestal and think they can't fall like this. Pray for your pastor, he needs it!

3. To not harbour any bitterness or unforgiveness towards Mike or any fallen leader. I am all for discernment, but if we're not careful, it can turn to venom and poison us and others.

Mt 4:5 Then the devil taketh him into the holy city; and he set him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and saith unto him, If thou art the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee:

I think the devil is very successful with this temptation. He lead leaders climb the pinnacle their religous construction and then tempts them to cast themselves down from the very same thing.

Sometimes I think the way ministries are run expose their leaders to dangers and temptations that few can bear. I speak in general terms, this is not directed at M.B. but isn't there sort of a pattern that can serve as a receipe for a fall?

Have a top man as star preacher, with multitudes hanging on his lips, a couple of best-sellers to his name which he gracefully hand-signs at events, build a corporate structure with layers of management around him, a PR machine, lots of social media froth, big budgets, a salary on par with top managers in the secular world, and I almost forgot to mention the campus and training modules that you can enroll for a handsome fee, and when things get a bit stuffy at home you jet around and swap stages with your peers.

How are you supposed to stay humble and esteem others better than yourself?

Did Paul or Jesus have any of these?
Is this type of ministry condusive to the kingdom of God?
Why are we so obsessed with heroes?

I must admit, at times I envy these men, but then I don't. I think the temptation for these men must be enormous, beyond what I think I and most of us could handle.

When I look at the lifes of people who I think are godly, they all encounter heartbreaks, slander and accusations, ingratitude, misunderstandings, fellowship break-downs, while they continue to serve faithfully with cheerfulness and gratitude. He who walks lowly does not fall from great heights, he is not crushed, but gets up and walks on.

As for MB, I pray that he and others involved can find forgiveness and healing.

So many leaders have fallen and I know for sure this is not the last one. It is so painful and many followers end up disillusioned and bitter. They need our prayers just as much.

Maybe we need to rediscover simplicity as a virtue.

We do need to pray for those who have been so hurt by and damaged spiritually by Mike Bickle, including Mike Bickle. This most likely was not a single event or a fall like David's adultery as the Sam Storms letter indicates. Yet, like David's case, God was most concerned that David's behavior despised the Lord and despised the Lord's word. This fact has been conspicuously absent in the responses of people to this tragedy..... a deep and sorrowful concern for the despising of the Lord.

This was a decades long abuse of people not just sexually or clergy based, but was also a false and sinful making of "prophetic" claims that were not true. I'm speaking to the claims Mike B. made to the victim(s) that God told him that he and the victims would marry and his sermon on the "dark horse accusers" of the brethern that would arise and how that Satanic attack would try to inhibit his prophesied last days outpouring of the Spirit. Heard that kind of thing somewhere before.

This dark horse prophetic release was immediately preceding the public release of the complaint against Mike Bickle. So what is involved here is sexual abuse, clergy abuse AND prophetic abuse.

One significant spiritual tragedy of this is that it is entirely legitimate to question any or all of Mike Bickle's prophetic words while these decades long abuses of women, position and prophetic utterance was going on. I'm not saying all his statements were false. Yet, it's a legitimate query.

Many will claim this is an isolated scenario. That would be error. This is the 3rd main Kansas City prophet to have this lifestyle of abuse and all had the same MO. Predatory, False prophesy to serve sinful desire and positional or clergy abuse. Cain, Jones and Bickle. Coincidence? This is not an instance of stellar character falling at the end of their ministries.

Second, in the area of Asia I work, this exact same scenario is being played out on a large scale among and affecting dozens of churches where sexual immorality, greed and spiritual pride have been allowed to run under the radar for fifteen years among major church leaders while the spiritually mature had inklings of it but failed to act because they didn't think they had the authority or a right (they were silenced by a church culture that told everyone to mind their own business).

As a result, many were led to imitate this attitude and many young people have became disillusioned or left the church by the hypocrisy and felt like all the sermons and teachings they heard were suspect.

This is happening now in KC and in the lives of those influenced by Mike Bickle. Tragic in many respects but especially tragic to the honor of God and the body of Christ generally.

My question is, what is God saying in this. One may conclude this is the devil at work and indeed it was and is in many different ways. However, it is God that is exposing this in this prophetic world and the mixture of sin and the prophetic is once again an issue. I love God speaking prophetically to His people. What is God saying in all this ? Does anyone have what the Lord is saying. We seriously don't need 10,000 opinions or points of views when He is shouting to and working this judgement out in the church, not just here. Perhaps this is His Word as I believe it is:

"Write to the angel of the church in Thyatira: Thus says the Son of God, the one whose eyes are like a fiery flame and whose feet are like fine bronze: I know your works ”‹”” ”‹your love, faithfulness, service, and endurance. I know that your last works are greater than the first. But I have this against you: You tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and teaches and deceives my servants to commit sexual immorality and to eat meat sacrificed to idols. I gave her time to repent, but she does not want to repent of her sexual immorality. Look, I will throw her into a sickbed and those who commit adultery with her into great affliction. Unless they repent of her works, I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am the one who examines minds and hearts, and I will give to each of you according to your works. -- Revelation 2:18-23 (CSB)

AND,

After this I saw another angel with great authority coming down from heaven, and the earth was illuminated by his splendor.

He called out in a mighty voice:

It has fallen,

Babylon the Great has fallen!

She has become a home for demons,

a haunt for every unclean spirit,

a haunt for every unclean bird,

and a haunt for every unclean and despicable beast.

For all the nations have drunk

the wine of her sexual immorality,

which brings wrath.

The kings of the earth

have committed sexual immorality with her,

and the merchants of the earth

have grown wealthy from her sensuality and excess.

Then I heard another voice from heaven:

Come out of her, my people,

so that you will not share in her sins

or receive any of her plagues. -- Revelation 18:1-4 (CSB)

If you look at God's judgment against Israel it was always rooted in false shepherds and false prophets leading the people into a complacency and lack of fear of God. False prophetic words about what God's burden was and what God was going to do for His people. At the same time, God warned the people of their spiritual pride, their sexual immorality and their covetousness for money, position and power.

I can tell you for sure this is the root of the evil now harmfully influencing so many churches and faiths in large swaths of Asia. It is, as the Lord leads me, the same in the US, it's just more genteel here.

Post deleted because of the strife it caused.

Thanks Docs for including this letter. This is the one Sam Storms indicated is woefully inadequate in the sense it shows spiritual blindness.

This whole thing, this sad state of affairs is about a lot more than Mike Bickel. This is about the devil trying to destroy a prayer movement that is worldwide.

Mike, What is God simultaneously saying, if anything?

God is saying a whole lot right now, judgment must begin first in the household of God, and those that do not repent of their sins and from their sins, they will be judged, they will be exposed, but also God is a merciful God. God is a God of forgiveness and of restoration and we have to be very careful that we judge righteously and not be a tool of the accuser of the brethren, because the devil goal is to split and divide the church, God‘s goal is to bring the church into unity .of the Spirit. (John 17).

The chastisement of God, is for all of his sons. He rebuked and chastens all those that he loves, and the discipline of God is for our salvation, not for our destruction.

Sorry. Double post.

Mike , The prayer movement can be and should be completely separate from what is going on. The prayer movement should be completely a movement and not fundamentally IHOP as an institution or entity. I’m not advocating disbanding IHOP and I haven’t heard anyone suggesting that. I was more focused on what God might be saying about the Kansas City prophet movement because the roots of that don’t appear to be healthy. I read some articles making that point back when Paul Cain and Bob Jones had their exposure by the Lord. Some very credible Charismatic leaders raised objections to their prophesies back then. Do you think Mike Buckle’s prophesies are credible in light of all this or that they need to be freshly assessed? That is what happened when Cain and Jones were exposed. Again, those questions were raised by solid charismatic leaders at that time as a direct result of the public exposure.

Maybe He’s saying "thou shalt not commit adultery.”

Apparently it’s still hasn’t sunk in after a few thousand years.

I’m not a huge fan of blaming the devil for this. The devil can’t make anyone, much less a believer, do anything.

"but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.”

Or, to paraphrase: "The temptation to give in to evil comes from us and only us. We have no one to blame but the leering, seducing flare-up of our own lust. Lust gets pregnant, and has a baby: sin! Sin grows up to adulthood, and becomes a real killer."
”­”­

Am I alone in wanting these movements dismantled?

I used to think that, and then my Father does it Himself since men flock to these charades of flesh; and when one falls ten more take it's place.

The ihopkc movement has never been solid, I spent time in KC in the early 2000s and knew then (I've outlined this much more in other posts).

It is a tragedy but there are those of us who saw this coming, and warned of it for years, but no one ever listens.

The response is always we are the false prophets because obviously, followers mean you're message is true.

"The response is always we are the false prophets because obviously, followers mean you're message is true.”

I don’t consider you a false profit, brother I just say that you and a few others are false accusers.

For those that are interested in light of these events, here is an article from Prophesy Today UK that you will find concerning and prophetic for this situation. It was written in 2018.

https://prophecytoday.uk/study/teaching-articles/item/1062-blessing-the-church-xxvi.html

Mike, is this a false accusation and false accuser ? I ask this sincerely. It’s very concerning to me and comes from a prophetic supporter and credible publication. I’m new to all this but it seems to me that we need a thorough airing and cleansing through addressing legitimate questions. God can and will preserve His church and its direction in His will if indeed it is in line with His will. We should have the trust in that that would allow us to discern the false and clear the dross and leaven and trust the Spirit to preserve the gold.

For the record, I’m not a keyboard warrior. As I said in an earlier post, I’m working at the forefront in the midst of this very same scenario affecting dozens of pastors and thousands of believers and the church, His church, can and will handle the shaking and shifting that needs to happen. Sometimes strengthening comes most necessarily through removing the weakness and cancer.

This website is well-known for listing false Prophets. What about the true Prophets? It’s just like right here on Sermon Index, some of you seem to know a lot about false prophets, but there’s a true gift of prophecy. They’re true prophets, and I’m going to quote with one sister had to say in her comments, concerning this particular website that you mentioned Robert

"I think it is about time something good was spoken about the gift of Christian prophecy on this site.There are many good prophets in this land and as the apostle Paul said we prophesy in part. Hence the need for prophecy to be tested. Why not run articles on UK prophets such as Chris Wickland and Veronika West who often appear to prophesy God's heart with accuracy. In the US if you want a prophet giving accurate words of knowledge try Troy Black. The church needs apostles, PROPHETS, pastors, evangelists and teachers as a functioning 5 fold ministry. Perhaps then we would function more fully in Christ's calling."

For many years, I was very skeptical of the prophetic, and many of the men that you mentioned. I doubted it that they had a true prophetic gift, but I’ve changed my opinion of many of them., Men like Pastor Joseph Sweet, who preaches the pure word of God, has had some of these prophets, whom you consider to be false at his church ministering One of them was Bob Jones. My wife has a true prophetic gift, and over the last 50 years, she has been so accurate with her prophecies that there’s no way I can doubt this gift, and it is needed in the Body of Christ. We definitely do need discernment within the church, and there are many false prophets and I don’t have a problem naming them when I see one when it’s mentioned here on this website.

Mike,

Did you get a chance to read the article ? Do you know the author or his credentials ? He's a false accuser based on what ?, assuming you read the article before leading others to dismiss it. I don't know the author, but his commentary seems to be grounded with numerous specific personal experiences with the individuals involved and specific examples. Mike, again, this keeps coming back to an irony. My sense is that Evan has been told by some mature spirit filled believers that he is a prophet or at least often prophesies. I won't speak for myself in this regard. Do you know or have insight from the Lord about Evan that would lead you to call him a false accuser or wrong in his spiritual evaluation of the ministry in KC? Evan clearly feels strongly that the Lord has led him to his conclusions. If you don't have such insights from the Lord as to Evan, and he does actually walk with spiritual revelation on this, then you end up being the false accuser. I'm not saying you are in the least. Just pointing out again the irony of falsely accusing someone of being a false accuser which could be the case as I suggest. At least those who are pointing out the spiritual issues and dangers to the body in these events are operating on known facts at this point as Sam Storms' letter attests to.

I know something is truly prophetic when I hear it. It is exceedingly rare and I would never label any man a prophet for that very reason. Art Katz came closest to being consistently prophetic in my opinion. Maybe David Wilkerson as well but I did not listen to him as much. Men like Tozer and Havner as well.

I have heard many sermons by Bob Gladstone and Mike Brown that were very prophetic- the ones that used to be posted on Fire on the Altar.

A man may give a word that is prophetic today but the next time he speaks it may be good but not prophetic.

Mike (and anyone else),

Just so you are aware, I in no way oppose the prophetic office or gift. I don't see how anyone can if they read the Bible.

With that said, I have, since very early in my life in Christ, been unable to escape being called into a prophetic life myself. I tried very hard to escape it, and God apprehended me over and over again, teaching me new and deeper lessons every time He did. I have died deaths I never even knew were possible in this walk, and in these crosses and deaths, developed a keen discernment that is often something that drives me to a place of deep confusion, until yet another part of me dies, and perfect clarity comes. I've been subject to prophetic men who have guided me, but ultimately it is life one must walk alone.

This is the the difference between a prophetic life and office, and someone simply offering up a sermon or telling a fortune from the pulpit and claiming the office themselves.

I think to much is said about the gift and almost nothing is said about the office - these are not the same thing.

False prophets run to give utterances, they love to stand up and proclaim themselves prophets and their sermons as prophetic; the true tremble at the office itself, and often can't even comprehend why they would ever be called to it. The false prophet steals words from other false prophets; the true dies a death and out of the subsequent resurrection, speaks what they saw. The false prophet is self willed; the true prophet is called from death and a tomb, and bid speak no matter how they feel about it.

There is absolutely nothing glamorous or appealing about the office of prophet, nothing to make a man want it, and everything to make a man run from it. Prophets are formed and made by God, not trained and picked by men. Prophets speak as oracles of God whenever God decides; to put pen to paper or to stand at a pulpit is futile unless God Himself directs and chooses to speak.

Often times the true prophetic accuses, but never to God, always to the nations, people groups or individual to whom the prophet is bid speak. Satan accuses the brethren to God, the prophet accuses people to their faces, unflinching and unafraid of the result it may have on their reputation, because like their Lord, they are of no reputation and not bound to a system, movement or financial crowd - God holds them up, not the world or anyone else.

The fact we limit the prophetic to future telling is why the church at large is so prone to deception and as we again see, so often deceived.

Sadly, I've yet to be wrong - sometimes I wish I was.

Thanks Evan for being forthright. It was needed and there isn’t a smidgeon of self in what you wrote. Refreshing. I don’t know how others will react. I felt and discerned the Lord’s pleasure in it. I’m thrilled that someone speaks from a place of long term fear and trembling for speaking on behalf of the Lord and no fear of man’s reaction. Well done brother but I know it is the pleasing and judgment of the Lord that concerns and compels you.

Robert,

I just now read that article you posted, wow. That is a spot on history of the formation of the IHOP movement. Most people forget, whether purposefully or just in the passing of time, that it's roots are in the vineyard movement. I also spent some time among people active in that movement in California, and what they saw as spiritual strength, we always saw as complete blindness.

Granted I spent most of my time while there on staff at a ministry dedicated to drug addicts and released prisoners, and before that a house fellowship, but I crossed paths with these movements almost daily, and they were concerning then.

I wasn't keeping up with any trends in the church for almost a decade, and in trying to play cath up, it's astounding how deep these deceptions have infiltrated everything.

Art Katz spent most of his ministry combating this, and it's strange how people can say Art was a prophet, and still adhere to this... Nonsense. His death was perhaps the death blown to whatever foothold truth still had in those movements, because God did do amazing miracles in confirming Arts utterances; not always, but when necessary. He denied he had anything to do with it and often rebuffed people who would ask for this type of "ministry" to be performed after meetings. But he was brought into these movements even though he preached directly against them.

Anyway, thank you for posting that article. It is packed full of confirmation, not necessarily of what is false, but what I believe God would speak to this age: the gospel of the kingdom, return to the simplicity and authenticity of apostolic discipleship, the reality of God from waking to sleeping everyday, and a complete and total break from the world, it's politics, ideals, pursuits; and in that, a demonstration to the principalities and powers the manifold wisdom of God.

Forgive the scattered nature of this post, family running around in the background.

I am addressing this question primarily to Robert and ES.

Do you believe that William Branham, Bob Jones, Paul Cain and John Wimber were all false prophets and teachers, and that the Latter Rain , Vineyard movements, Charismatic Renewal, and present day world wide prayer movement is not of God?

I know that these questions covers a very large area from the 40’s unto the present, but I would like to know your opinion.

I have no idea or knowledge about those movements you listed. . I know what others say about their proven sinful life. I have serious questions about their prophesies in light of that which is legitimate because their own close brothers removed them from any prophetic platform in their congregations and ministries.
Don’t you?

My comment should not be applied to John Wimber. I don’t know him, but it should include Mike Bickle.

I believe that William Branham was a true, humble prophet of God that did not have a moral failure but erred in some of his teaching, and was warned by Gordon Lindsay and other men of God not to teach.

Paul Cain had serious moral failures, but I remember listening to some of his teachings in the 90’s that were spot on. He was warned by other men that were involved in prophetic ministry, but ignored the warnings, but it is my understanding that he did repent several years before he died.

Bob Jones did have a moral failure, but he quickly repented. Art Katz had met with Bob Jones at one time, and things were told to Art that only God would know. Art told Bob Jones that "truly, you are a man of God.” Joe Sweet had Bob Jones minister on several occasions and can verify his ministry.

John Wimber never had any moral failures that we know about, attempted to bring correction to the Toronto Blessing, but was criticized for his emphasis on signs and wonders.

We know that Mike Bickel had serious moral failures, but we must be patient and wait for all of the facts to come out. I do know that Mike had a very modest life style, and was a balanced teacher of the Word of God.

I can share more on the various movements within the Church for the last 80 years or so that have been criticized because of the emphasis on 5 fold ministry at a later time.

I

Mike.

I think you are ignoring that these men were removed from prophetic ministry for moral failures that were not single events but a life pattern. Mike, I seriously am concerned that you are prone to minimize these mem’s potential false prophesying out of a fear that some movement that you align with would be impacted if the reality of prophetic abuse was acknowledged. Jesus would hate that if it were so. And, perhaps, by somehow creating doubt about their words, the heresy hunters could be emboldened. I think you have to trust the Holy Spirit more than that. The truth is more important than any ministry or movement. A love of the truth is a love of Jesus. A love for a man declared and sustained movement may or may not be truth. I don’t know where the movements you listed fit in that, but clearly almost all the men you listed used their positions to speak "prophetic” words to serve their human appetites and lusts which Paul says makes them enemies of the cross.

"I think you are ignoring that these men were removed from prophetic ministry for moral failures that were not single events but a life pattern.”

This is not a true statement. Which men are you talking about?

I said this before and I’ll say it again, that many false statements and accusations have been made on this forum concerning men of God, Some of them had moral failures, but that does not disqualify them from their calling if they truly repented.

Mike, given that it took seconds for you to respond to my concern, I am assuming you have no interest in at least thinking about it much less praying into it. I don’t think you and I share the same approach to arriving at His thoughts on these issues. When you or others accuse me of being a false accuser, I honestly search myself and inquire of the Lord as to whether I’m wrong in my words or wisdom. When you respond in seconds to a brother’s concern, that isn’t happening so it’s best for me to stop as I think we are engaging with different purposes. Being someone’s straw man is not what the Lord has called me to.

"Mike, given that it took seconds for you to respond to my concern, I am assuming you have no interest in at least thinking about it much less praying into it.”

I prayed about the whole situation this morning. I have no problem receiving correction, and if and when the Lord shows me that I am in error, I will repent and make it right.

By the way, so you have never made immediate responses to various posts?

CofG,

I didn't know that the personal statement I posted by Mike Bickle had already been responded to by Storms and perhaps others. I felt a check when I made the post and felt a bit uneasy but felt it might bring a bit of a balanced perspective. On my way to work and while at work I had the feeling what I posted would likely cause things to be said and a bit of an argument might break out because of it. I was right. I missed it with the post. It did cause infighting and even accusations to be made for all to see. STRIFE. I am going to delete the post even though it's too late. It's been my experience over the years that situations like this usually reveal an uncrucified part of the life in the body of Christ that likes reveling and rehashing the sins of others. Those who rise up and say disparaging things about men become near as guilty as the people they are speaking against. Then they say we need to pray about it and don't spend one second praying. They just like to make grand and many times wrongfully informed statements. That's not a blanket statement against people here but I know from experience it is true. I've been disappointed in the dialog here. So, if you don't mind bro, I am going to delete the post I made, hoping I may have learned a little. It's really none of my business anyway. I'm not saying these events should be just let go and everyone moves on. I am confident this matter will be thoroughly looked into and the right decisions made by those charged to do so. Now, to delete my post.

Mike asks:
"Do you believe that William Branham, Bob Jones, Paul Cain and John Wimber were all false prophets and teachers, and that the Latter Rain , Vineyard movements, Charismatic Renewal, and present day world wide prayer movement is not of God?"

"So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.” (Matthew 7:17-20)

""For no good tree bears bad fruit, nor again does a bad tree bear good fruit, for each tree is known by its own fruit. For figs are not gathered from thornbushes, nor are grapes picked from a bramble bush. The good person out of the good treasure of his heart produces good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure produces evil, for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks. "Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you? Everyone who comes to me and hears my words and does them, I will show you what he is like: he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when a flood arose, the stream broke against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built. But the one who hears and does not do them is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. When the stream broke against it, immediately it fell, and the ruin of that house was great.”” (Luke 6:43-49)

I think we often times neglect the words of the greatest of all the prophets. The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy, hence when we read "the word of Lord came to me", we can just as easily say, Jesus came to me, the everlasting logos of God, the word made flesh.

So if we simply apply Jesus words to these movements, what conclusions can we make?

I see the fruit of confusion, sin, false doctrines galore, exalted flesh, idolatry of men, men lording it over other men, and on and on.

So Mike, I ask you, what fruit do you see?

Docs (David),
While I understand your sentiment, these are the issues that are always ignored and swept away because no one ever wants to "be that guy". False prophets depend on the hesitancy in the church to judge, but judging fruit is vastly different than judging people. Jesus makes clear that we are to judge a tree by its fruit, and leave the judgment of the person, and vengeance to God. We can proclaim the judgment of God when clearly revealed, but we can never be the enacter of judgment, vengeance is mine says the Lord, I will repay.

Sadly the words and teaching of Jesus on this issue have been so abused and mistaught (ironically, the majority of the teaching on not judging is promulgated by the very movements we are discussing) that men can get away with anything these days, and no one wants to say anything for fear of "touching the Lords anointed".

Well, I'll touch them. I have no issues or qualms about openly declaring that something is nefarious and false, because to be silent is to share in their guilt.

"If I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, in order to save his life, that wicked person shall die for his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand.” (Ezekiel 3:18)

We are held accountable for our silences to the same measure we are held accountable for our words.

And David, you made these issues your business when you believed in the Lord Jesus Christ; you were born into a body, and when one part of that body is assaulted spiritually, we all suffer, whether we are directly conscious of it or not. The cosmic ripples caused by these things effect us all and perhaps only the day shall declare it.

No one has mentioned any specific prophecies from Bickle that were detrimental and had bad fruit. Maybe some have but I don't know. People it seems like more to repeat general blanket statements given in much the same general manner the way the prophecies they criticize were given.

I don't think bro that these things have been swept under the rug since the truckloads of very false prophecies given stating Trump would win re-election hands down and serve a second consecutive term. And delegated authority has stepped forward in an attempt to handle the Bickle events with thoroughness and honesty. This is in place and working. Meanwhile, I don't feel guilty because I don't want to keep putting Brother Bickle's name and failures on the church bulletin board over and over. Many of those most vocal I can almost guarantee have not prayed for him for one minute. We need likely at this point to hush and...uh...pray. Me first.

Thanks Docs.

I was more trying to understand whether there is a general principle in Scripture or generally accepted in the prophetic community that prophesies given during a time when the "prophet” is involved in gross sin and/or misuses "prophetic words” for sinful desires are suspect or subject to greater scrutiny or caution as to accuracy or if they are from God at all.

To me, it’s connected to the Ezekiel 14 passage and the Peter passage that say clearly that God doesn’t hear our prayers or engage in speaking to us in response to inquiries as and when we regard iniquity in our heart or set up idols in our heart. If this is a general principle then the only issue is God’s decision on when the person is not going to be heard or spoken to. We don’t know when that happens but in retrospect, shouldn’t we be extra cautious with prophesies given during times of repetitive or long term gross sin in that person’s life in retrospect, that is looking back into prophesies given during the gross sin time frame ?

CofG,

I pretty much agree with you. Very good observations and questions. The Lakeland debacle of not so long ago confirmed much of what you say.

I just know that these types of situations bring out carnality and the spirit of judgmental gossip from under many rocks. Out of the woodwork. The sins of fallen leaders can bring out and expose levels of sinful attitudes in others. It always happens it seems. But God has obviously intervened here in this present set of events and His delegated authority is at work I believe. And I know I am preaching to the choir, but we need to quit intermingling the office of a prophet with the gift of personal prophecy. Apples and oranges in many ways.

Blessings. Thank you.

David you are correct. It brings out the basest in us because we like to think that others’ sins are far worse than ours and we like to crow about it. That makes the devil chuckle in his throat.

ADD:

"Beware of Criticizing Others” by Oswald Chambers

Judge not, that you be not judged. ””Matthew 7:1

Jesus’ instructions with regard to judging others is very simply put; He says, "Don’t.” The average Christian is the most piercingly critical individual known. Criticism is one of the ordinary activities of people, but in the spiritual realm nothing is accomplished by it. The effect of criticism is the dividing up of the strengths of the one being criticized. The Holy Spirit is the only one in the proper position to criticize, and He alone is able to show what is wrong without hurting and wounding. It is impossible to enter into fellowship with God when you are in a critical mood. Criticism serves to make you harsh, vindictive, and cruel, and leaves you with the soothing and flattering idea that you are somehow superior to others. Jesus says that as His disciple you should cultivate a temperament that is never critical. This will not happen quickly but must be developed over a span of time. You must constantly beware of anything that causes you to think of yourself as a superior person.

There is no escaping the penetrating search of my life by Jesus. If I see the little speck in your eye, it means that I have a plank of timber in my own (see Matthew 7:3-5). Every wrong thing that I see in you, God finds in me. Every time I judge, I condemn myself (see Romans 2:17-24). Stop having a measuring stick for other people. There is always at least one more fact, which we know nothing about, in every person’s situation. The first thing God does is to give us a thorough spiritual cleaning. After that, there is no possibility of pride remaining in us. I have never met a person I could despair of, or lose all hope for, after discerning what lies in me apart from the grace of God.

That's what I mean TMK. I know you have seen it more than once in these types of situations.

Guys.

I guess I’m the most confused by your comments. I’m not judging Mike Bickle or his sins. He confessed to them. Maybe you aren’t aware, but Sam Storms who wrote the letter I posted is a close friend of Mike Bickle and has been his staunchest supporter and defender for years and truly loves the man and his family. As to Paul Cain and Bob Jones, Mike Bickle disciplined Bob Jones for his known sins. John Wimber disciplined Paul Cain I believe. These aren’t judgments that are being discussed by me. There are disillusioned and discouraged thousands who are trying to figure out whether what they were told was God speaking to them through these men was partly or not at all true. This is about more than the sons of a man, and there is that aspect for sure, and it’s not about judging a man who has already confessed. It’s about processing the prophesies he made and the directions he’s led people in as being from God. Judging a man for his sin isn’t in focus in these back and forths. At least that was my intention. In what sense do you see Mike Bickle being judged when he confessed to the primary allegation ?

Criticism and a critical attitude are miles away from judging a tree by its fruit. Chambers is speaking of being critical, Jesus is speaking about looking at fruit of a movement, individual, or teaching and knowing it's truth based on its product, and even deeper, not being a hypocrite in that judgment.

Judging trees by their fruit is obedience to Jesus, no matter what men say about it. It is fanaticism to look at a tree that produces peaches and insist to everyone it's an apple tree, no matter how much a peach may resemble an apple.

Agreed ES.

Also, the text about not judging is so misapplied which is a side issue. We are called to help brothers remove their sins they are ensnared in. The passage of don’t judge isn’t an absolute command. Paul says we are called to judge those inside the church in love with multiple righteous and good motives and goals in view that I won’t go into. Even the Luke passage being referred to says…….first, remove the sin from your own life…….contrition, confession and cleansing. But the passage doesn’t stop there,,,,,,,THEN go and help your brother remove his own. It has to do with a prideful spirit of the self righteous Pharisee. The clear eyed look of a spiritually mature brother or sister cares for the ensnared brother and the people in their lives affected by their sin and steps in and pulls a brand from the fire.

What needs to be realized above all else is that, to use the name most mentioned here, Mike Bickle is in this case fruit, and not even the object of at least my comments.

We need to look past the men, the flesh, and see the deeper realities at play here. The principalities and powers are at work even, and especially in this, and sadly, even in sin, men are always the first thing everyone looks at. It's almost more prevalent to idolize men and flesh when it's on full display in sin and hypocrisy, than it is to idolize them when someone perceives a move of God.

If the church was able to realize that our warfare is spiritual, I think much, if not all of these useless debates over judging others and the fear of men would disappear. Flesh and blood is not the object of this warfare.

I personally could care less whos name is on the movement, or how long or seemingly successful their public work has been. Men are the fruit of the movement, and lives are the fruit of the men. The real question is simply upon which vine do the braches hang, the true vine, or the false vine.

So perhaps the foundational principle upon which many of the comments in this thread are based is simply wrong. When defending a man, a ministry, or a movement takes precedence over defending the truth of God, and the name of Jesus, there is a much larger problem than the possibility of judging wrongly, or the misapplied accusations of gossip.

Agreed ES. I was just speaking this to my family. We must love the truth more than any man. Some may recoil at that. Jesus said I am the truth. His point is that truth, righteousness, love are not just attributes of Jesus and God. They are His substance. If we are to love Jesus more than any man, movement, self,etc. then we are to love truth, righteousness, love and all that God is more than anything. Truth is God. Lies, hypocrisy, etc are "of the evil one”. Lying isn’t something he does. It is who he is. That is why when we don’t know God we aren’t "of the truth”. Love the truth more than men or movements.

If he’s confessed it then what is the use of continuing to discuss it. God will deal with him as He sees fit and proper.

I understand everything you are saying about the latter rain junk. I got out of that mess about 18 years ago.

There is so much shallow showmanship Christianity out there that I don’t know whether us calling it out here will do much good. Individual Christians have to be convicted in their heart of the vanity of it. Perhaps time would be better spent praying for discernment among the "little folk” instead of praying against barbaric pomposities. That ship has sailed and now there is too much money involved.

God is not in Heaven wringing His hands wondering what to do. He will not be mocked.

The message of Revelation 2-3 seems to be about keeping our own noses clean, not looking up everybody else’s. A person whose nose is clean will not follow Nicolaitians and Jezebels. It is God’s purview to deal with that ilk.

Actually Todd, in the letters you reference, Christ tells the whole church to deal with the grave error in their midst or, if they don’t, the whole church would see Jesus depart from their midst. As to minding our own personal business, so much Scripture says that getting to heaven is a family plan, responsibility, effort and race. I have genuine concern for my brothers and sisters who have been spiritually misdirected and disillusioned potentially by some level of false prophetic words. I hurt for others involved and we should pray for them. Helping the disaffected is all our responsibility. All I’m trying to say is that the prophesies that many based their life decisions on may need to be reassessed and my point of view only makes sense if we establish the principle that at least for a time these prophetic men may not have been speaking for God in what they spoke. Not a blanket dismissal. Just a word to help lift things back up to God instead of dismissing everything or embracing everything they said. Seems like a valuable effort for their sake and for His honor.

Todd,

""‘I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and found them to be false. I know you are enduring patiently and bearing up for my name's sake, and you have not grown weary. But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first.” (Revelation 2:2-4)

Revelation chapter 2.

As Robert said, Jesus is the truth. To abandon truth is to abandon Jesus, the love we all had at first, and should still have now. Truth isn't comprised of systematic theology, doctrines, or anything men do or say. So if men mean more to you than truth, than God would bid you repent and return to your first love, Jesus Himself and His teachings and truth.

The reason I continue this pursuit is because this forum means a lot to me, I was a member back when it consisted of many more active people, and Greg is a dear brother who I see being swept up in these movements as well. Do I understand why the Lord has bid me remain here? Absolutely not, but really none of my life makes any sense at this point, at least not to me.

I believe we here can come to unity and already I've seen great strides in that direction. Even among us, there is represented here a great level of influence in the body of Christ - just looking at everyone's locations proves this. If we here can unite in Jesus and truth, unite in prayer and preaching, suffering and purpose, much can be accomplished.

But I've often sought God as to His reasons for only allowing me to write and interact on this forum and my blog, the clearest answer I've received is:

"And you, son of man, be not afraid of them, nor be afraid of their words, though briers and thorns are with you and you sit on scorpions. Be not afraid of their words, nor be dismayed at their looks, for they are a rebellious house. And you shall speak my words to them, whether they hear or refuse to hear, for they are a rebellious house. "But you, son of man, hear what I say to you. Be not rebellious like that rebellious house; open your mouth and eat what I give you.”” (Ezekiel 2:6-8)

I'll continue to eat whatever the Lord gives me, including the expected responses to this post.

As an additional aside, the idea that the prophet in the office of prophet can be always prophetic in spite of the sin in his life is very, very Roman Catholic doctrine and has led to tremendous lostness and long term error. Past long term sin not only disqualifies a prophet for future work, it absolutely necessitates
an evaluation of his words spoken ostensibly on behalf of God in the past. That’s the conclusion I’ve come to. Any attempt to preserve the prophesy in spite of the manifest lasting bad fruit is, frankly, dangerous to the body. Care about Mike Bickle, his family, IHOP and the larger body. Care just as much about the truth of God’s written and spoken word.

For the sake of all on this site and those whose lives you influence, I started posting on this site in 2007 under a separate name. I had to leave for security reasons and now only post because of some freedoms I have for this short season. This is not my main ministry. I do and have worked with hundreds of pastors and thousands of believers and self deceived believers in remote places. I come here to learn and
to share. You have the chance to impact all that now through me growing. So, I can help "my people” by growing and hopefully add some value to those you influence. The goal of these statements isn’t to point to me. I never as in never do that in my ministry. I’m a slave in attitude and work. That’s my resume and business card. I say all that to echo ES’ sentiment. It is an amazing privilege to be a part of a wide ranging group of long term believers who I trust are more mature than most and to help us all better influence the thousands in our lives that we touch by our own growth and concern for others. This isn’t a bunch of individual silos. If you think this is about pounding on your or my agenda and ensuring that those who oppose you or your agenda are appropriately shut down, then you are missing out on the privilege and I sincerely believe, His purpose for me and you being here. We need to be big boys and girls. Some of this is childish in attitude and doctrine (no one specifically). Ad hominem name calling, ad absurdism arguments, reductionism, answering direct questions with questions, lying in wait, mockery, Scripture plucking, etc. these are the tactics and tools of, at the very least, those who are shut down to learning or growing. And I need to learn and grow and none of us needs to be the others’ spiritual piñata or alternatively, to hold to sacred cows and make idols of our learning.

If I’ve been guilty of these childish anti-growth tactics, my apologies.

Galatians 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, you which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering yourself, lest you also be tempted.

Hoping for some spiritual ones to rise up and demonstrate the restoring meekness described here.

Rusty

I think regardless of who we like and who we don't, because this is not a civil crime breaking some of the laws of the land, to my knowledge it's not.

Then this is technically meant to be dealt with according to the pastoral letters of Timothy and Titus fundamentally.

Paul said to Timothy not to receive and accusation against an elder for a single crime unLess at least two to three witnesses saw it happen.

And so far there is only been one witness 25 years ago who God bless her claims to have been sexual relationship with Mike bickell that is one witness and there has not been a second witness come forth to say they saw this happening so that alone cannot be enough to bring that particular charge against Mike.

And so far the investigation still goes on to find out about the others to my knowledge one or two women have claimed that they that they never were abused or treated bad by Mike and so the credibility of some of the leaders who brought these charges against mike are very shaky on those grounds and they were very angry at these former leaders for bringing them into it.

In a civil Court this would look very bad on those people. But all that aside while the investigation still goes on and Mike bickel has made a confession about certain things nothing else can be technically held against him except for his own confession until at least one more witness so far from 25 years ago will come forward and say they saw it happen.

So until that happens according to the apostle Paul, Mike beckel wouldn't be guilty of that crime only so far what he's confessed too.

Whether we like it or not this is the way the epistles read and probably one of the reasons why so much pedophilia was pushed under the carpet by the Catholic church and other churches because if there's only one witness coming forward about the crime it's not enough to be able to lay charges.

It's not enough for people 20 years ago to say they believed the person who brought forth the charge, believing that it happening is not enough as being the actual second or third witness to the crime so we all need to settle down and stop assuming that there's been two witnesses come forward to bear witness to a single crime, the investigation needs to carry on and we really need to shut our mouths and stop gossiping amongst ourselves about something that's not dealt with in the context of church investigations and legal investigations.

I don't necessarily say that I like that church doctrine that Timothy was given by Paul but it came from an old testament reality and people were put to death for certain crimes of adultery fornication and idolatry and whatever else well they were under severe punishment and to avoid someone innocent being charged and condemn wrongly the holy spirit through Moses had said , out of the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every charge or word be established and it seems that the apostle Paul and the other apostles brought that law into the church.

In hindsight it doesn't seem like it favors the victim but rather favors the accused in that sense but due to the fact that people were put to death and in the church serious excommunication would have taken place and the people would have been handed over to Satan for the destruction of their flesh according to the way Paul operated, this was a very serious matter that probably could have resulted in death or severe demonic torment and denial of the communion the body in the blood of Christ.

So the reason for that law is justified.

Gary,

IHOP has said he can't do any public appearance at their church. He voluntarily committed to never do any kind of ministry work anywhere at any time in the future unless he heard from the Lord and through senior mature leaders all because he admits to the sin and knows he can't. Sam Storms who wrote the letter that was posted is a former very senior and Biblically solid pastor. Mike Bickle was not an elder of any church. He didn't serve on IHOP's ministry staff in any capacity. IHOP also claims not to be a church. No one is trying to convict him of a crime.

Michael Leroy Bickle (born July 17, 1955) is an American evangelical leader best known for his leadership of the International House of Prayer (IHOPKC). As the leader of IHOPKC, Bickle oversees several ministries and a Bible school. Bickle has written a number of books and served as the pastor of multiple churches.

1 Timothy 5:19
ESV
Do not admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses.

Clearly, elder and overseer are used interchangeably here. Likewise, in 1 Timothy 5:17, Paul uses the term elder where readers might expect him to say overseer. In doing so, Paul reveals that overseer and elder are two ways of referring to the same office

There’s a statement by Stuart Greaves, head of IHOP, on YouTube spoken before IHOP gathering made at the time of MB’s removal that states that Mike Bickle is not on staff nor a part of their leadership nor has been for years. Just check out the statement. I don’t want to suggest that I have independent knowledge of this. I just listened to the head of IHOP for my information and his statement was contemporaneous with the removal. Again though. Mike Bickle has confessed to the primary allegation so not quite sure about the purpose of the objection or even applicability of the elder passage.

https://ihopu.org/about/leadership/

I remain disappointed and grieved. I posted Mike Bickle's personal statement just to perhaps give some balance in the overall perspective. There were only 4 or 5 posts in the whole thread at that point and it was just sort of of quietly resting. Then I started wondering if I should have even done that. On my way to work and at work I kept getting the feeling that my post might fan flames that there was no need to fan and might even cause infighting. Sure enough it did, the thread is not quietly resting now. I missed.

For the record, I don't believe in all the responses that anyone was saying past and present prophecies from a person should be accepted even if they were living in sin at the time they made them. That is not an accurate statement concerning some who responded. It was not the point of my thoughts. My point was that when situations like this arise it usually reveals and exposes pockets of carnality and gossip in many people, thus the sin being dealt with ends up being twofold - the sin of the accused plus those who rashly come forward repeating things they really don't know anything about or even if they are true. I've seen it numerous times over the years. They just heard them so they repeat them while covering themselves and saying things like, "I'm not trying to gossip or anything, I'm just grieved and want us all to pray." Maybe not altogether here but I'm sure it has happened in this set of events. That was my point. Along with the accused, many are exposed by their reactions - a double-edged sword so to speak.

I apologize for entering in and posting Mike Bickle's personal response. Talk about bad fruit. I have since deleted it although it's too late.

Blessings. I believe we now need to spend as much time praying for him as we have talking about him and others.

Blessings.

Amen David 🙏✝️

"Blessings. I believe we now need to spend as much time praying for him as we have talking about him and others."

Amen Brother!
Hearts are being exposed by reactions to this.
We also need to be praying that the truth would come out, and that we would be merciful and pray for healing for both the one who has sinned and the victim or victims. There is no proof that Mike Bickle’s moral failures took place repeatedly over the course of his ministry, but the truth will come out. I like the comment that Pastor Joe Sweet made when he was asked about accusations against a minister. His reply was "It’s none of my business.” Our business is to pray for truth and mercy, and healing for the Body of Christ from the division that is already taking place.

Once again, men take the throne.

The men involved in this and any incident like this are not the point. If anything, these men are just as much the victims as the the "victims"; albeit victims of a different form of abuse and a different power. Flesh and blood is not the focus here, until of course someone comes along and can only seem to discuss and point to the men involved, rather than the spiritual powers involved. We war against the powers behind this entire situation, and the reason these things continue to take place is because when they do, the men are the focal point instead of the spiritual powers behind the situation.

"For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal.” (2 Corinthians 4:17-18)

The powers that are behind these events depend on the church majoring in the minors. These are not "moral failures", call it what it is, sin. But even this is a side issue, who is surprised when a public figure falls into sin, and it is made public? Their public lives mandate publicizing sin to the same degree as their lives are public. Restoration after the sin of found out is to be done following Scripture, and his restoration in God's sight is God's business, and the blood of Jesus shall be the deciding factor.

Imagine if your sins, no matter how insignificant you think they are, were made public and shown in the light of how God sees them apart from Jesus and His blood? Bickle is a man, nothing more.

It's a waste of time to act surprised and think it strange when a man sins.

I say again, perhaps the entire focus of this thread is wrong. Go back and read through my posts, as I think if anything I've written was taken in the least bit serious, we could all unite in prayer and actually see this situation bear fruit. Prayer is called for, but not for what everyone thinks; we should be praying into the spiritual war that is really being waged, instead of vaunting the fleshly outworkings that we can see.

We can focus on the transient, or the eternal.

"Imagine if your sins, no matter how insignificant you think they are, were made public and shown in the light of how God sees them apart from Jesus and His blood? Bickle is a man, nothing more.”

Brother, I agree with you 100%, look how many men, pastors, ministers of the gospel are in bondage to pornography right now. No man is beyond falling. We need the grace of God every day. God has no pleasure in exposing sin, and if men would repent and seek deliverance. God would not have to expose it. .

I extend mercy to brothers and sisters that have fallen, and do my best to restore them. I need God’s mercy every day.

I was afraid that statement would be isolated from the context of my post. Please take what I said there, in the larger application. That doesn't nullify or contradict anything else I have said. False prophets still need to be tested and found out, but it's a satanic distraction to focus on things like the sins of men.

What should be a warning sign ends up a reason to "show mercy" and the issue of the truth of the movement is again forgotten and pushed aside.

Don't let that happen here.

"That doesn't nullify or contradict anything else I have said. False prophets still need to be tested and found out, but it's a satanic distraction to focus on things like the sins of men.”

Amen! And true prophets need to be recognized as that and stop being called false prophets by heresy hunters.

I agree we should recognize true prophets. If I'm honest I don't know of any. I have heard prophetic utterance, but that does not make someone a prophet.

The last true prophet I know of was Art Katz. I would also label Dietrich Bonhoeffer a true prophet, Watchman Nee also comes to mind (Nee is more of an apostle I think though). But currently, I know of none (that doesn't mean there are none, I just haven't heard from them).

And remember before anyone goes up in arms, pathos in preaching, operating in the gift of prophecy, even truly prophetic utterance does not make someone a prophet.