Maybe we should look at the gifts, so we can all appreciate other's more.I'm not trying to teach here, But I just wish we could see where we are used and where others are and respect the 'differences' in each other (Church wide) and why our 'burdens' may be different, etc. etc.This may not be for Cesstationists though.First the gifts in Romans 12 ~ (Gosh, I tried to see which verses I wanted to put up and now I feel I'd like to put up that whole Chapter.) Anyhow ~ I'll just put these few ... ~ ROMANS 12 ~ The 7 "Motivational" Gifts. Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. Rom 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: Rom 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. Rom 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; Rom 12:7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; Rom 12:8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that showeth mercy, with cheerfulness. Rom 12:9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.It's said, that each one of us has one (sometimes more) of these gifts, which basically gives us a 'burden' that is 'particular to or specific to that gift'.*Prophecy, *Ministry =(Aid or Service), *Teaching, *Exhorting, *Giving, *Administrating =("To be over." - 'ruleth' in KJV), and *Mercy. Paul continues on, directly from the gifts, to Love again and how to get along. Just as he does in 1Corth. 12-14.The general feeling, you come away with is, to Respect each other's differing motivational gifts and be open to them. Without thinking that our gift is better than or more important than, someone elses. (12:3)It's one running dialogue, as almost always is the case with Scripture.With the motivational gifts, there is, (as with all else) - the 'plus side' of the motivational gift and the 'negative side' of it.When in the Spirit, a Giver will give more than most usually do ... but when in the flesh, they may give the shirt off their back at the Grocery store ... Ha.Givers can't understand why everyone else doesn't give as much as they do.That is why they are called "motivational gifts" ... it's what motivates folks to do what they do and think as they think.A person with the Gift of Mercy, is Wonderful in the Spirit ... but when in the flesh, they'll compromise on things in the Church or in others, that they shouldn't compromise on, Scripturally and will have a hard time with some of the things that teachers or prophets may say. But they'll seldom 'argue' about it.So goes it with all these gifts. It's what drives them, it's how they see things, they can't understand why others can't see those things 'as they do', but that's why it's important for us to know what our motivational gift or gifts are, and to respect or 'see' in others, what theirs may be, so we'll understand each other better and make room for the expression of their gifts.And when they go overboard on their gift, to not judge them as 'bad' people, because WE ALL can and do have days when we are not "walking in the Spirit". But don't judge by that ... just because you don't like what someone else is saying or doing (as long as it's not heresy or sin). Maybe you're just not in the Spirit that day ? Maybe tomorrow you'll view it differently.Just give whatever it is to God. He's still working on all of us.~ Ephesians 4 ~ The 5 "Ministerial" (or 'Calling') Gifts.Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachersI think these are pretty self explanatory.A person can have more than one of these callings. There are Pastor/Teachers - Pastors/Evangelists - Pastors/prophets - and so on.An Apostle is just one who feels led to start multiple Churches. So here you could have an Evangelist/Apostle, Pastor/Apostle , etc.Like the Motivational Gifts, they are "their burden". And they are also the only two sets of gifts that are 'resident' or 'resides' in the person.The Motivational Gifts and the Ministerial Gifts are in the person and makes them who they are, and gives their specific 'burden'.The 5 Ministerial (or Calling) Gifts in eph. 4, are the only gifts not given to all. But that doesn't mean that a Pastor or whatever should look down on those with the other gifts. A Pastor may need someone with a motivational gift of prophecy in his Fellowship .. God knows best and all believers should be given the freedom to be used. ~ 1 Corth 12 ~ The 9 Manifestation Gifts.1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. These 9 gifts are Not Resident, as are the Motivational gifts or Ministerial gifts.God in vs. 11 does the deciding, who, which and when a person is used in these.He can use a person in just one, or all 9. He knows best.He could use a person in one this year and then never again, but chose to use them in another instead, because they're just available.He may start by just using them in "Interpretation" and then see, that the vessel is yielded enough to go to prophecying later.Or again, He can and has used some in all, at one time or another. As "He" wills. We cannot "will" these gifts into action, by our own command.They are a "for that moment" type situation, where God sees a yielded vessel that he can use for the need of that moment.In Chapter 14 Paul discusses the 'Use' and non-abuse of the gifts.But "sandwiched" between his discussion on the Gifts, he put in Chpt. 13 - about Love again. Paul knew to stick Love between the gifts so often, because it is when our gifts "collide" and we don't make Love and respect for each other's gifts a priority,that, that's when we'll not get along too well ... and the Purpose of the gifts, in the first place, is to "Build up the Body".Not cause Gang Wars. Ha !All the Mercy folks, against the Prophets or vice versa - etc. ha. And considering that each person may very well have, or be used in, multiples of the three groups above,(as God wills), that could get rather "Jumbled up", when you have a whole big gang of folks together. :-)Each stressing their burden or viewpoint from the focus of their own gift(s).We all may be looking at the same Picture, but just from different views (gifts).We can't and should never feel we don't need each other, because that would be 'renting or tearing HIS body apart'..But don't 'focus' on your own gift, (that leads to arrogance and will mess up your gift.), but focus on The Giver as He called Himself, "Servant".And I feel it's very wrong to also go around telling people what your gift Is. (ie. "I'm a Teacher" or "I'm a Prophet" or "I have Mercy", etc.) Try to be humble in that area and Keep that between you and God.We just must try to be patient with and most of all respect each other's gifts (because GOD gave it to them) and know that above all else, 1Corth 13 ... and that no gift is better than or higher than another's. We need all and each other.Thanks y'all.
Getting along with our Gifts.
Wow Grannie, That's quite a comprehensive outline you posted. Thanks. I have found that gifts are like tools in a tool box. They only benefit someone if they are used to accomplish work. Personally, I think it's time we stopped admiring the tools and began the task to taking back this country for Christ. Then we will see the tools put to their intended task, and we won't have time to sit around and try to figure out who has what.All His best,Lahry
Lahry said:Wow Grannie,That's quite a comprehensive outline you posted. Thanks. I have found that gifts are like tools in a tool box. They only benefit someone if they are used to accomplish work.Personally, I think it's time we stopped admiring the tools and began the task to taking back this country for Christ. Then we will see the tools put to their intended task, and we won't have time to sit around and try to figure out who has what.Lahry, how did you get this 3rd part, out of what was posted ??? :-? Who's admiring who's tools ? Now ya got me so confused, I don't know which Smilie to use .... Ha !First it sounded like ya liked the idea of what I was 'trying to say' about "respecting each other more and being more patient with each other because of ...." ... but then it sorta sounded sour after that.I think I said not to focus on your own gift but on The Giver. Or did I forget to add that ? I can't see the post from here, right now. We're Not to "sit around and try to figure out who has what." :-? I sure didn't mean that. But just to stay open to each other.And could you let me in on your secret on how to "take back this country" ?I'd sure like to hear that one. Hey, just for fun, I thought I'd post this too. http://mintools.com/spiritual-gifts-test.htmIt's sort of fun. So far it's worked on my husband and friends, pretty accurately.But it ONLY WORKS if you are Painfully Honest.Tell me your results Lahry .. :lol: .. I wanna see what tools we've got to work with, after ya become President or something. 8-)Only playing with you brother ... it's just your Re: confused me. But then again, I'm easily confused anyhowz.Hope ya have a Happy day in Jesus.Love.Annie
Hi there, I apologize. I must have come across really short because I was actually short on time when I posted what I did. We can take back this country, when we begin to walk in obedience to God. Ghandi of India said that if christians would only live like the bible says, India could be won over to christianity in one day. That's over a billion people. Would this not work also in the USA? Just curious.I guess the sharpness of my comment stems from many years in the "charasmatic experience". Emphasis was put on gifts, gifts, gifts, gifts. I personally have not witnessed many people who benefited from these "gifts". Furthermore, where all the emphasis is on the Holy Spirit, you can rest assured, He is not among them. Why? Because Jesus said that when He comes, He would testify of Jesus. The awesome David Wilkerson wrote a wonderful piece on this called "Christless Pentecost". You can look it up and read it if you like. It is online. I apologize for not having the link. My concerns are that when someone wants to explain the "gifts", without emphasis on the ministry that would utilize the "gifts", then I question where is the purpose or lack there of. But I assure you, it is not in me to be rude to anyone, especially christian ladies. So again, I apologize if I seemed that way to you. Please forgive me.Yours in Christ,Lahry
Oh Lahry,That was such a nice post, and please don't feel I deserved or felt an apology, of all things, was even in my mind, at all.I just wondered what you meant, and wasn't sure, if you approved or didn't, by how it went.So very much of what you've just said, is exactly how I feel.My reason for writing it, again, was not to glorify the 'gifts', but to edify the Body.That is what the gifts are for, but my #1 point of writing that, was so we'd see our differences in a more understanding light.Many times, misunderstandings can come about in a discussion, but it is only because it's a brother with a gift of Teaching, and a sister with the gift of Mercy, may think the teaching is too hard. Etc, Etc. That's when the gifts "collide", and that was the origin of the reason, of why I wanted to write that ... not to over-emphasize the gifts.Actually, all the 'smilies' was because I thought your first post was funny ... in that, I was confused by how it seemed like a dual opinion or response.I've gotten DWs Newsletters etc. for 28 yr.s, so I've probably read it. We followed him closely for all those years. Even before TSC, when he was still with Keith Greene.I totally agree, the Holy Spirit and we, are Christocentric ... or at least we should be.And like you, feel, 'that' is what the gifts are for. To point folks to Christ and also to 'build up His Body'.I don't believe you were 'rude' in the slightest, and please know I took absolutely no offense ... I really was giggly, because I was merely confused.I like your posts and this one, but I'll hold off on my opinion of "this nation", till I can gather my words/heart better. I get teary eyed on that subject, and right now, I couldn't handle that. Thanks.Much love to you Brother.TTYAAnnie
to taking back this country for Christ.Please tell me what this means?I actualy hate this term. It sounds like "Kingdom Now" theologyFirst of all, I think this is futile for we are doomed already (Read revalations). No one can take back this country for Christ. It will never be a "Christian nation again as it was in the founding of it. Why didn't the Apostles take their land back? And so, if you could take back this country for Christ, why stop there, take the whole world back for Christ sake. (no curse intended)all we should be concerned about is preaching Christ and Him crucified, and HE will draw all men to HIMself John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. And not to forget His resurrection1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. 1Corinthians 15:14, 15 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. BUT1Corinthians 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
Hello logic, I agree and withdraw the comment. What I should have said was take back our churches for Christ.In Him,Lahry
Amen!!!! Thanx
Where is this notion found in Scriptures that differing giftings will sometimes cause people to butt heads with eachother e.g mercy in conflict with the prophetic?
Logic and Lahry ~"Take back our Churches" ~ Alleluia and thumbs up !~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Welllllllll, King Jimmy, Was Paul gifted ? and was Barnabas gifted ?But how many times do you see him messed with by brethren and didn't even all of Asia forsake Paul ? Were there none there with the gifts ? Act 15:35 Paul also and Barnabas continued in Antioch, teaching and preaching the word of the Lord, with many others also. Act 15:36 And some days after Paul said unto Barnabas, Let us go again and visit our brethren in every city where we have preached the word of the Lord, and see how they do. Act 15:37 And Barnabas determined to take with them John, whose surname was Mark. Act 15:38 But Paul thought not good to take him with them, who departed from them from Pamphylia, and went not with them to the work. Act 15:39 And the contention was so sharp between them, that they departed asunder one from the other: and so Barnabas took Mark, and sailed unto Cyprus; Act 15:40 And Paul chose Silas, and departed..For chpt.s prior to this, they worked together and it was Barnabas who endorsed Paul in Acts 9:27 - But Barnabas took him (Paul), and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus. Why did one want John Mark and the other didn't, if they were always basically 'led' by the Holy Spirit prior to this ? and they being both major gifted.Even in the O.T., look at what Aaron and Miriam did to Moses. It's said that Miriam was a prophetess Ex 15:20, and Aaron was Moses' sorta 'mouthpiece', but she and Aaron didn't think well of Moses' authority for a time and she had a leprous experience with the Lord because of it. (Even though she prior had led all the women in Song.)We can't always see other's gifts or leadings or burdens from God, that others see, so contentions can come on or from that basis.Experientially, I've seen this happen in the Body, more than can be numbered.Prophets are either hated or loved ... no, in between .... Scripturally.Take any Preacher or Teacher you know, and see if you can't find someone who doesn't say, "He's too judgmental, or negative, or legalistic, etc."Yet the Word says, ALL believers have "gifts" of one kind or another, and many times, a gift of Mercy can usually only see to pamper the sheep, (which is Great, when that is the Need of the hour). Mercy is better than sacrifice, and blessed are the merciful - for they shall obtain mercy, but what if You see it's time for correction, or reproof and a "mercy-filled" person can't see your point of view, heads may butt.To cut each other more "slack", when 'contention' comes, I'd rather look on the least incriminating causes, then to just say, "Oh, they're just carnal, immature, not "in the spirit", and ETC., with the multiple charges folks throw at each other, or judgments we can make on others in our own thinking.I just like to see us cut each other more slack, and say, their "burden is just different from mine" ... and Not - "they're wrong and I'm right"... because my burdens from God are not my best friend's, or even my husband's.Your burden from God, is obviously not that of all the other Christians in your area.But if you still doubt it happens, look at the Church or Forums. :-(
The song "How beautiful, is The Body of Christ", kept running through my head, as I was cruisin' here.I ask a question on a thread, and Pop, here comes a Member, to answer my question.How beautiful how the Body can work together.Made these verses come back to my mind again.And realized just then, that it was Pauls Intro verses to what he was about to say, about the gifts to the Body, and how they work "together" to make a "whole" and to make "us" whole. NEAT !1Co 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many. 1Co 12:15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 1Co 12:16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 1Co 12:17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? 1Co 12:18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. 1Co 12:19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 1Co 12:20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 1Co 12:21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. 1Co 12:22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: 1Co 12:23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honorable, upon these we bestow more abundant honor; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
Jimmy writes:Where is this notion found in Scriptures that differing giftings will sometimes cause people to butt heads with eachother e.g mercy in conflict with the prophetic?Annie writes:Welllllllll, King Jimmy, Was Paul gifted ? and was Barnabas gifted ???But how many times do you see him messed with by brethren and didn't even all of Asia forsake Paul ? Were there none there with the gifts ? There is a logic mismatch here. Based on Annie's earlier post Jimmy is asking 'where does scripture indicate that different gifts CAUSE conflict?' Annie's answer is that 'people with different gifts MAY COME into conflict'. The latter is absolutely true but it does not answer Jimmy's question.
Philo ~I had mentioned to Jonathan about reading "the heart" of the person's post, rather than the "words" ... I keep bringing it back to, 'WHY' I wrote this, all through page one, and that can be seen, by those "with eyes to see".What 'really' is your problem with me Philo ?If you can't read or pick up on the "heart" of my purpose in my writing My First Post here ... and just want to knit pick my post, as you wanted to on Jonathan's thread ... and lose the "heart" of Jonathan's thread also ... then you're problem is with me, because you are being blinded to the "intent" and would rather grasp at straws, to the intent to distract from the "intent" of my answers here and to Jonathan.If you could read with your heart or spirit and not with some hidden contention for some one who was trying to bring a message of peace between us all, as His Body, and when I strictly directed Jonathan to Christ and His Spirit of Truth, yet you strain to find fault in content, rather than see what possibilities there could be, if we SOUGHT CHRIST FIRST AND THEN LOVED EACH OTHER & TO RESPECT EACH OTHER IN THIS THREAD ... then you are saying that BOTH concepts are Wrong and that we should just contend in the Greek (as I said was trivial in my post to Jonathan), over seeking Christ alone, and then here, to bud in for KingJimmy, instead of allow him to respond for himself to my post to him, just says one thing to me and possibly others... your contention is with me, for you to go to this extent.Seek the ways of Peace. And do good to all, Especially "the household of faith".These "conflicts of burdens" happen in the Church and you are just looking to cause debate and remove any attempts here to understand and make room for each other's burdens.This and your wanting a debate on Jonathan's thread, was and is not in the best interest of "the whole" of His Body, and "being full of debate" is not a positive characteristic, of a member of His Body.I would recommend a re-reading of every post I've made, or that I was forced to make to explain my First, on this thread and ask God, if you will, to show you the "heart" of what was 'trying' to be said.That's all I can ask you to do. Other wise, I see you jumping in again behind me to cause debate for the sake of debate only, and that is not the direction we should go, Scripturally.And whatever KingJimmy has in mind, after he reads my response, written to him, is his decision.The "Annie says" and "Annie's response" is the type terminology (2nd person type),that is used when making a public spectacle of your superior insights, rather than addressing your post to me, as a sister in the Lord.If Love was put first, in All things ... these type "impersonal" refutations, would not exist on a Site that has been earnestly striving for Unity, Love and Peace between us, who have been given free access to grow here, together as His Body.How sad.
What 'really' is your problem with me Philo ?And whatever KingJimmy has in mind, after he reads my response, written to him, is his decision.OOps. This took me by surprise. I have no problem with you. But this is a forum not a private conversation. At the last time I looked 254 'views' were marked up against this thread. That makes it pretty plain that this is not personal conversation between two people. The difference is that folks are expected to join in. If I think you are mistaken in a debate I will point it out; I would do the same with any post and I trust others will do the same with me. This is a forum, a market place, so anyone can join in.The "Annie says" and "Annie's response" is the type terminology (2nd person type),that is used when making a public spectacle of your superior insights, rather than addressing your post to me, as a sister in the Lord.I meant no distrespect by this. It is the format that I have adopted to try to separate out different post-ers in a post of my own. You certainly misjudge me in attributing to myself 'superior insights'. I am sorry if my terminology has offended you; I only adopted it for clarity's sake. Some 'forum' engines actually do this automatically so that a quote has the source post-er already built in. I was just trying to use a similar distinguishing method. In fact in one of my posts I playfully asked if I might call you 'Annie' rather than 'GrannieAnnie' but so far as I am aware you didn't respond to it.
There is a logic mismatch here. Based on Annie's earlier post Jimmy is asking 'where does scripture indicate that different gifts CAUSE conflict?' Annie's answer is that 'people with different gifts MAY COME into conflict'.The latter is absolutely true but it does not answer Jimmy's question.Indeed. I fail how to see people's different giftings cause conflict. Quite the opposite, I believe Scripture teaches that when people are geniunely operating in the gifts of the Spirit, there is not conflict, but rather, harmony- and it must be harmounious because this is Christ's body we are talking about. Now, if somebody is not functioning correctly, but is out of order, and immature or/and sinful, then one can expect that there would be conflict. But the gifts of the Spirit promote maturity and unity, they build up, not tear down and apart. We can cite a million Scriptures where believers were in conflict, but that doesn't prove the gifts cause conflict. It simply shows people are conflicted.
The "Heart" and purpose of why I posted this thread .... "Striving for the Beauty of The Workings of The Body, Unity and Mutual Respect of each other's "burdens".From Post 1 ~Maybe we should look at the gifts, so we can all appreciate other's more.Paul continues on, directly from the gifts, to Love again and how to get along. Just as he does in 1Corth. 12-14.The general feeling, you come away with is, to Respect each other's differing motivational gifts and be open to them. Without thinking that our gift is better than or more important than, someone elses. (12:3)So goes it with all these gifts. It's what drives them, it's how they see things, they can't understand why others can't see those things 'as they do', but that's why it's important for us to know what our motivational gift or gifts are, and to respect or 'see' in others, what theirs may be, so we'll understand each other better and make room for the expression of their gifts.And when they go overboard on their gift, to not judge them as 'bad' people, because WE ALL can and do have days when we are not "walking in the Spirit". But don't judge by that ... just because you don't like what someone else is saying or doing (as long as it's not heresy or sin). Maybe you're just not in the Spirit that day ? Maybe tomorrow you'll view it differently.Just give whatever it is to God. He's still working on all of us.In Chapter 14 Paul discusses the 'Use' and non-abuse of the gifts.But "sandwiched" between his discussion on the Gifts, he put in Chpt. 13 - about Love again. Paul knew to stick Love between the gifts so often, because it is when our gifts "collide" and we don't make Love and respect for each other's gifts a priority,that, that's when we'll not get along too well ... and the Purpose of the gifts, in the first place, is to "Build up the Body".Not cause Gang Wars. Ha !We all may be looking at the same Picture, but just from different views (gifts).We can't and should never feel we don't need each other, because that would be 'renting or tearing HIS body apart'..But don't 'focus' on your own gift, (that leads to arrogance and will mess up your gift.), but focus on The Giver as He called Himself, "Servant".And I feel it's very wrong to also go around telling people what your gift Is. (ie. "I'm a Teacher" or "I'm a Prophet" or "I have Mercy", etc.)Try to be humble in that area and Keep that between you and God.We just must try to be patient with and most of all respect each other's gifts (because GOD gave it to them) and know that above all else, 1Corth 13 ... and that no gift is better than or higher than another's. We need all and each other.Thanks y'all. 3rd Post ~ That is what the gifts are for, but my #1 point of writing that, was so we'd see our differences in a more understanding light.Many times, misunderstandings can come about in a discussion, but it is only because it's a brother with a gift of Teaching, and a sister with the gift of Mercy, may think the teaching is too hard. Etc, Etc. That's when the gifts "collide", and that was the origin of the reason, of why I wanted to write that ... not to over-emphasize the gifts.1st Re: to KJ ~We can't always see other's gifts or leadings or burdens from God, that others see, so contentions can come on or from that basis.Experientially, I've seen this happen in the Body, more than can be numbered.Prophets are either hated or loved ... no, in between .... Scripturally.Take any Preacher or Teacher you know, and see if you can't find someone who doesn't say, "He's too judgmental, or negative, or legalistic, etc."Yet the Word says, ALL believers have "gifts" of one kind or another, and many times, a gift of Mercy can usually only see to pamper the sheep, (which is Great, when that is the Need of the hour). Mercy is better than sacrifice, and blessed are the merciful - for they shall obtain mercy, but what if You see it's time for correction, or reproof and a "mercy-filled" person can't see your point of view, heads may butt.To cut each other more "slack", when 'contention' comes, I'd rather look on the least incriminating causes, then to just say, "Oh, they're just carnal, immature, not "in the spirit", and ETC., with the multiple charges folks throw at each other, or judgments we can make on others in our own thinking.I just like to see us cut each other more slack, and say, their "burden is just different from mine" ... and Not - "they're wrong and I'm right"... because my burdens from God are not my best friend's, or even my husband's.Your burden from God, is obviously not that of all the other Christians in your area.But if you still doubt it happens, look at the Church or Forums. ;-? [\\quote]
Last post before inquisition:The song "How beautiful, is The Body of Christ", kept running through my head, as I was cruisin' here.I ask a question on a thread, and Pop, here comes a Member, to answer my question.How beautiful how the Body can work together.Made these verses come back to my mind again.And realized just then, that it was Pauls Intro verses to what he was about to say, about the gifts to the Body, and how they work "together" to make a "whole" and to make "us" whole. NEAT !1Co 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many. 1Co 12:15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 1Co 12:16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 1Co 12:17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? 1Co 12:18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. 1Co 12:19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 1Co 12:20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 1Co 12:21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. 1Co 12:22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: 1Co 12:23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honorable, upon these we bestow more abundant honor; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. Bottomline to PL ~If Love was put first, in All things ... these type "impersonal" refutations, would not exist on a Site that has been earnestly striving for Unity, Love and Peace between us, who have been given free access to grow here, together as His Body.How sad."Purpose", was to avoid contentions.
I just like to see us cut each other more slack, and say, their "burden is just different from mine" ... and Not - "they're wrong and I'm right"... because my burdens from God are not my best friend's, or even my husband's.We have addressed these issues many times in the past. This is just one of them. Do all things in the name...
Dear King Jimmy,I feel because you are called to Evangelism and as I've told you more than once in our PMs, I Highly respect that ministry more than I could say -- although I believe you know from my replies to you, that your particular "area" is why I was so glad to hear of the work you do.Out of respect, I would like to reply to your question personally .... although this is what I was trying to avoid saying in any of my posts on this thread.The reason I was trying to avoid this "answer", is because, as I've been trying to say, through-out this thread and 'why' I posted it, was so we all could "respect each other" and not "think the worst first" when we disagree on a thread, or even in our Church.I wanted to avoid bringing the attention to "acedemics", but keep it From "our hearts", for and to each other but,in AoG Bible college, 25 yr.s ago, when we had the class on 1Corth., the same elder/missionary/Professor, that taught college level greek, also taught 1Corth.He taught, that the "Whole Reason" for Chapters 12 through 14, was Exactly for the reason stated here, in this thread .... that In Corinth, the Church was "clashing with" and not "understanding" the gifts and some thought their's was better than others and things were getting out of control there, because of all that I was trying to say in this thread.Reading 1 Corth. 12-14 and learning the "background" of "why" Paul had to give that long discourse and why he stuck 1Cor13 in the middle of his discourse and "rebukes" of their use of the gifts, will give much understanding of "where in Scripture" this topic in this thread had originated.Not from me, but by the Church at Corinth and by Paul.I didn't want to say all of this on this thread, because it would distract from my "purpose", highlighted in the bold-print reply above and put the attention where I did not intend for it to go.To anyone's acedemic background, etc. etc. which I see as would just be a "blah,blah,blah" addition from me, if I had.I believe, when we post, it should be to "encourage the Body" or "exhort for growth" and not to use too many "I's" in our posts. In other words ... to not talk about ourselves so much, but to look for ways to encourage each other, From His Word, instead.I'm sorry I had to bring up where I learned this stuff about the "clashing", which was the cause and reason why Paul had to write 1 Corth. 12-14 in the first place. But I felt I owed you the courtesy of a truthful or clearer response ....I pray for your calling, as I do for every other Christian on this Forum,,, Everyone of which has a very necessary gift, that our God, has Specially given to them ... and I pray they are blessed by being used of God and we are blessed by their gifts, and do not judge them.Blessings of His Presence,Annie
I wanted to avoid bringing the attention to "acedemics", but keep it From "our hearts", for and to each other but,in AoG Bible college, 25 yr.s ago, when we had the class on 1Corth., the same elder/missionary/Professor, that taught college level greek, also taught 1Corth.He taught, that the "Whole Reason" for Chapters 12 through 14, was Exactly for the reason stated here, in this thread .... that In Corinth, the Church was "clashing with" and not "understanding" the gifts and some thought their's was better than others and things were getting out of control there, because of all that I was trying to say in this thread.Reading 1 Corth. 12-14 and learning the "background" of "why" Paul had to give that long discourse and why he stuck 1Cor13 in the middle of his discourse and "rebukes" of their use of the gifts, will give much understanding of "where in Scripture" this topic in this thread had originated.Not from me, but by the Church at Corinth and by Paul.AnnieThis is why I am challenging this line of thought. I think your professor was wrong if he thought they were 'not understanding the gifts'. I think the thing that they did not understand was the cross and its application in their own lives and in the experience of their gathering. I think the fatal illness which the assembly at Corinth was suffering from is headlined in the first chapter; 'each of one you says I'. You will appreciate the power of emphatic pronouns in Greek and Paul emphasizes the personal pronoun 'I' 4 times in verse 12. In fact he doesn't even repeat the verb but only the pronoun “Now this I mean, that each one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos: and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.” (1Cor. 1:12, ASV) The problem in Corinth was "I" uncrucified.The 'gifts' or 'distributions' of the Holy Spirit themselves could never cause conflict; that would mean a house divided against itself. Nor are they in 'tension' with one another as some express it. No more than any member of by body is in conflict or tension with any other member. It was not the 'gifts' that occasioned the conflict but the recipients.
There are Tree different groups of Gifts These are gifts from our Father, and Every one has at least one of these:Rom 12:6-8 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; : 7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teaches, on teaching; : 8 Or he that exhorts, on exhortation: he that gives, let him do it with simplicity; he that rules, with diligence; he that show mercy, with cheerfulness. 1 Corinthian - Chapter 12 These next only come on people when the time is needed and are momentary, they are not permanent.The gifts from the Holy Spirit are not for the one who is being used by the Holy Spirit with the gift, but is for the benefit of the ones that they are toward.These are the Gifts from JesusEphesians - Chapter 4:11 and he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;Only a few people have these gifts, notice He said "some", and they are only for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Edited by me here ... I just saw your post Logic, and we posted about the same time, so I hope you see this post here was not written to you. God bless, good job.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~He died about 22 years ago from Malaria, at the ripe old age of 70 something, that he contracted while teaching in India.He gave his life (totally and wholly) to teach Greek, exegesis and hermenuetics, to both us Americans during the school year, and to those in the Colleges he started in India, during our Summer school break. No break for him, because of his 'burden'.I'm sorry if you feel you could have taught better.In his seventies, he was still doing this.Using every spare moment, to help bring an understanding of the Scriptures, from the original Greek and historical settings, etc. at the times that the books of the Bible were written.He proved out each verse by Exegesis, and not "his own thoughts".You are entitled to your opinion ... everyone is, as I hope I am also entitled to, once in a while.Keep splitting hairs, and the "Intention" of this thread has been totally lost already.The saddest part ... is that it shows up on the HOMEPAGE for all the new visitors to see.If "Respect" for each other has not been the theme of this thread, and some other 'motive' has entered, I pray the Lord God, will bring it back to it's original intent.You mentioned "how many views" earlier ... well, contention brings "views" BUT mostly, folks may just want to read about a topic that peaks their interest. That's what peeks my interest to read other's threads.I was told by the Moderators, who I've trusted, that this Forum, is for "finding God out" in the Deepest way. The "heart" of God's Heart.I will try to keep that in mind, and feel I have the freedom here, to once in a while, post a thread of my own, that 'may' be of some "edification".I pray we can edify each other, as was the plea of the admin. on the thread where I first signed on at.It was that plea of theirs, that got me over my phobia of Forums and gave me the courage to become a member here. I felt "their" HEARTS were in the right place and those others, who posted on that particular thread and I felt unfearful after picking up on that spirit, alone.God Bless SI's intent & purpose.Praying for Peace, Encouragement for all, and Growth, not only for myself, but for us as a Body knitly joined together.
I'm sorry if you feel you could have taught better.You are entitled to your opinion ... everyone is, as I hope I am also entitled to, once in a while.Annie, you seem determined to take offence at my comments. Am I not allowed to disagree with your professor? If you would not like me to contribute to your conversation the technology to employ is 'pm' the private mail facility offered here on SI.Why don't you challenge my ideas rather than attacking me personally? After all, this posting is in the 'Scriptures and Doctrine' section of SI. This part of the forum is not intended for personal monologues (I mean no offence by that phrase; I am only trying to make a point clear). SI forums are not designed as pulpits from which a single speaker pursues a single objective; they are 'forum' - a market place of ideas, challenge, discussion. They are to be conducted in a atmosphere of respect for truth as well as for individuals. As I say, there is another avenue open for personal one-to-one discussions in the pm function of SI.I bear no ill will towards you and have no agenda. I have no 'problem' with you unless you want to close down discussion. The SI family has functioned like this for some time now. The intervention of the moderators is happily rare because 'market place dynamics' tend to moderate exclusive or extreme views. One of the unique facets of SI is the breadth of Christian conviction expressed in our download library. This variety of conviction is not a weakness of SI but, in my opinion, one of its greatest strengths. It means that folks raised in the comparative 'security' of a 'denominational' setting have to mix with people from widely different Christian cultures. In this it is a special gift to the whole church. I have commented on this feature of SI regularly.From time to time we have folks join us who have a particular 'agenda' (again, I am not thinking of you when I say this). There are some who join us with a conviction that they have a particular 'ministry' and that SI is just the platform from which to exercise it. (again, I am not thinking of you when I say this) The family at SI 'self correct' these tendencies, or the folk move away. It is a natural process of the 'family life' here. God sets the solitary in families and it is good for us to have our concepts 'destruction tested'. This is a priceless function of SI and I hope we will be endlessly vigilant in maintaining this 'free speech' in the Spirit of love and self control.I would like you and I to discuss our ideas, here on the forum. Why can't we do this?
Philo ~Please check back to your first post on this particular thread, and then the next and the next.I think if you still cannot understand, what my heart was for initiating this topic, and that it was for the Sole purpose of us "Respecting each other's gift burden's and so that we will cut each other more slack and NOT JUDGE each other" and that That was the message I was trying not to get muddy up with endless debate, and so on ... then I believe this 'may' be when you may want to call in a Moderator through a PM, or someother way, to judge me or between you and I.This is a strange case, in this particular thread, and I do not feel physically, emotionally, nor strength wise, equipped to handle your way of responding. I'm sorry for that.Sometimes I have the strength, but in this is one instance, I don't.Please consider a Moderator for this dispute of yours.Thank you if you could understand, that there are sometimes that I don't have the strength for these type post disputes.Grace.Annie
One more explanation.I have no intent to start a thread where anyone can not reply to.I love open discussion, I just am a bit burnt out on Debates.When I first signed on here, I said I had been on a Theological Debate Forum, thinking it would be fun, because I was brand new to Computers and all.Then I posted here that, some doctrinal debates went on for years, Greek and all, and I saw, that even with Greek, people would find they'd disagree on transliteration, grammar disputes, etc. etc. ad nauseum, so after only one year on Computers, I went off line for almost 2 years, to seek God in the matter, because the lack of Love, and Unity, caused by these "debates", caused my health to go down... in more ways than one.I had a phobia of Forums ever since, because those "debates" were such a bad testimony or witness. Especially when it gets into Greek, etc. because it loses the general audience or leaves out too many Saints from the conversation and know from the past, that even with the Greek, folks won't agree.If someone came on here and denied the Deity of Christ, I would hope you (Philo) and I could work together to dispute that heresy. Or any other 'Major' Doctrine within our general Statement of Faith, but to just banter over minors, I can't do anymore. It's not against you Philo, I believe, but as I've stated, "I believe EVERY CHRISTIAN on this site has gifts that we all need. And Greek, etc. leaves too many out and I like talking with all here.I need fellowship more than most, because as I've said, I am disabled and pretty much homebound ... so it's 'not' that I don't want anyone posting with me .... It's just the opposite, I 'want' fellowship and love it, more than words can say.But a certain post was made recently on this forum from someone in charge, that moved my heart and I felt comfortable with.I'll quote it here .... "These forums are not the best place to debate and look for controversy. But rather a place to come alongside each other and seek the face of Jesus."That was just one of the type statements, that attracted me to this forum.Only if it's a 'major' doctrine, do I feel we may need to get into so-called "debate".I'm a Pre-mil-Post-trib believer, but I won't debate that, unless someone asked me to just "discuss it" with them. Just for one.I don't hold the OSAS belief, but I won't get into that arguement either. I don't think it's needed, but just that folks seek the Lord with all their hearts.My burden is for Growth, Doctrinal Purity and Last Days stuff, but I pray to not battle on minors. I pray not to battle at all.My only point here with this thread was, to encourage All posters, that they All have gifts (whether cesstationist or not, they still have gift-burdens),and to encourage that we consider that when we disagree, that 'maybe' it's just their gift's burden that is causing the disagreement, and not to judge them, as anything less than ourselves.I don't know how else to explain myself.For a change (ha) I've finally run out of words.(now that's a switch :).I'd just rather encourage each believer in their own gift, and leave this with 1Corth. 12:14-27.TGIF & PTL
Please consider a Moderator for this dispute of yours.Thank you if you could understand, that there are sometimes that I don't have the strength for these type post disputes.I have no 'problem' with you or your posts. If you still have a problem with mine, I suggest you 'call in a moderator'.
Down yonder here, they say "Bless your heart" a lot.I thought it was the cutest-sweetest saying I'd ever heard, being from the big-bad-tri-state areas more like N.Y..You skipped a post here, the one 'just' before yours here, where I tried to explain the 'shape I was in physically' and why I don't like 'debating', but that's O.K., I'm feeling better now ... I think any PMing to anyone, would have to be done by you, because I think I made myself clear enough on my desire for unity, in that post before yours here and through-out my posts.I don't mind you 'resurrecting' any disputes you have with me and my dead professor, at all now.God is Good, and His Mercies are new every morning.His Word is Spirit and it is Truth. And sometimes, we all just need to get in the Spirit of things, that's all :-).Happy Sunday !