Sanctification - Sinless Perfection or Being Set Apart?

Excerpt from Lewis Sperry Chafer on Sanctification:

THE MEANING OF THE WORDS

1. Sanctify, With Its Various Forms.

This word, which is used one hundred and six times in the Old Testament and thirty-one times in the New Testament, means to "set apart," or the state of being set apart. It indicates classification in matters of position and relationship. The basis of the classification is usually that the sanctified person or thing has been set apart, or separated from others in position and relationship before God from that which is unholy. This is the general meaning of the word.

2. Holy, With Its Various Forms.

This word, which is used about four hundred times in the Old Testament and about twelve times, of believers, in the New Testament, refers to the state of being set apart, or being separate, from that which is unholy. Christ was "holy, harmless, undefiled, and separate from sinners." Thus was He sanctified. So, also, there are certain things which the words holy and sanctify, in their Biblical use, do not imply:

(a) Sinless perfection is not necessarily implied, for we read of a "holy nation," "holy priests," "holy prophets," "holy apostles," "holy men," "holy women," "holy brethren," "holy mountain," and "holy temple." None of these were sinless before God. They were holy according to some particular standard or issue that constituted the basis of their separation from others. Even the Corinthian Christians who were "utterly at fault" were said to be sanctified. Many inanimate things were sanctified, and these could not even be related to the question of sin.

(b) The word does not necessarily imply finality. All these people just named were repeatedly called to higher degrees of holiness. They were set apart again and again. People, or things, became holy as they were set apart for some holy purpose. Thus they were sanctified.

"Christ was "holy, harmless, undefiled, and separate from sinners." Thus was He sanctified."

That's the only line in the post that means anything - because the rest misses the whole point, as practically everyone in the forum has regarding this entire topic.

It's a grief to the Father when Jesus is ignored for a self centered examination of what doesn't even exist apart from Him. Jesus doesn't give sanctification, sinlessness, or anything else - He IS those things. Jesus is all.

I think repentance is in order for everyone involved in this entire discussion over the last few days - in every thread it's been brought up in.

Evan, the point is that Jesus was sinless, but we are not, and anyone that thinks they are beyond the point of ever sinning again is deceived. The apostle Paul called himself, "the chief of sinners.” There have been many, godly men that have gone to their deathbed and cried out for mercy. "Lord, forgive me for my sins.”
It is the Lord that keeps us from sin. It is looking at the Jesus, the author, and the finisher of our faith who is the source of our righteousness and sanctification. If we look to ourselves, we will either be in a state of condemnation or self-righteousness.

Most of us have been delivered from the grossest sins of the flesh, but every time you read the sermon on the mount, you’re immediately convicted because we know that the motives of our hearts are not always pure.

Mike said"
"who is the source of our righteousness and sanctification"

You see, that's the whole problem - He isn't the source, He IS our righteousness and sanctification.

It's a fundamental and crucial change in viewpoint, and without that change in viewpoint God will never receive glory.

Christ, living His life through me is my righteousness and sanctification. So where am I wrong as you say 'everyone here'?

ES-

Why not state exactly what you mean?

//Christ, living His life through me is my righteousness and sanctification.//

You seem to be suggesting that since the above is the case, either you can’t and don’t sin or that your sins really aren’t sins because Jesus can’t sin.

If the former, you are sinning because you are lying. If the latter, it’s make believe.

You see how quickly these threads turn into disgusting mockeries of everything Jesus died to set man free from?

Honestly, this entire forum, myself included, should be ashamed of itself.

"You see, that's the whole problem - He isn't the source, He IS our righteousness and sanctification."

Evan, I am so blessed that we can agree on something at least!

"You see, that's the whole problem - He isn't the source, He IS our righteousness and sanctification."

Evan, I am so blessed that we can agree on something at least!

"You see, that's the whole problem - He isn't the source, He IS our righteousness and sanctification."

Evan, I am so blessed that we can agree on something at least!

Yeah Mike, because after reading through the threads for the last few days in this horrendous excuse for a Christian forum... You and I agreeing on something is the actual issue (Ironically, the quote I disagreed with was verbatim from one of your posts, so no actually, we don't agree).

You have all been rejoicing to see sin in one another's lives, seeking to find it, in the hopes that you can all use it to prove a doctrine wrong.

Honestly, woe to you if you rejoice to see your brethren stumble.

If I was able to and still remain in obedience, I would be once again leaving this forum - as I did back in 2006.

Man no one can answer a simple question. That is always suspect.

Todd,

Something that needs to be said, particularly to you:

"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.” (1 Corinthians 2:14)

The answer is Jesus is my sanctification, that's what I mean.

and

"Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”” (John 3:3)

I beg you Todd, please take this verse to the Lord in prayer - don't not do it out of pride or some desire to be correct - seek the Lord with this as your topic, you will find Him.

Duplicate

A true Christian doesn’t practice habitual sin but it isn’t sinless perfection.
This short video by Paul Washer is the balance of truth between habitual sin and sinless perfection.

https://youtu.be/I_RZ_pcM3YM?si=1gfZHiN9klKk2DcR

If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 1John 1:8.

As we know, good exegesis consists of using the inductive method, in taking many scriptures, and deriving a general conclusion from them. ‘The number, clarity and relevance of those many passages is crucial to the theological conclusions drawn. Building a doctrine on only one or two verses or passages which are unclear or not directly related to the issue, compromises the conclusion.’ (Olson: Beyond Calvinism and Arminianism, Introduction p4).

In the same letter we read:

He that commiteth sin is of the devil. 1 John 3:8.

Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not, whosoever sinneth hath not seen Him neither known Him John 3:6

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin 1 John 3:9

He that abideth in Him ought himself also to walk, as even as He walked 1 John 2:6

He that saith I know Him and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar and the truth is not in him. 1John 2:4

Little children, let no man deceive you, he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7

My little children, these things I write to you that you sin not. 1 John 2:1

John’s first letter was written to counteract the heresy which was affecting the church and was a treatise for Christians in general as there is no mention of a specific church as was contended by Lampe in his appeal to Theodoret.

The apostle is declaring to the whole world, his disapprobation of the doctrines maintained by the early or proto Gnostics who taught that Jesus was by birth a mere man but that 'the Christ' descended on Him at His baptism.’ These Gnostics, who taught that man could be righteous in spirit and still sin in the flesh, contended that the apostles had added commandments not given by Christ concerning the doctrine of sanctification. John devotes the greatest part of his epistle to the confirmation and enforcement of his doctrine.

We see that John is describing a process whereby we can test ourselves to see if we are in the true Light whereby the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin, and pointing out where the early Gnostic idea has been creeping in:

1:7 if we say we have no sin (as in Gnosticism, my insert) we deceive ourselves 1:8 but if we confess our sin, He will cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Here John shows where the deceivers depart from the truth. Their teaching was that they had no need of this cleansing, as they did not consider immoral actions as sin due to matter being evil which was escaped through having ‘special’ knowledge and not in keeping God’s law. They maintained that a child of God could still sin and continue to have fellowship with God, a concept which was known as ‘spirit salvation’.

The early fathers on the other hand, taught that we must at least be on the road to theosis or union with Christ and this starts with Purification, or knowledge of the sin within, with the desire that we will be cleansed from all sin not that it might remain within. We can see that John is comparing walking in the light to walking in darkness that is, walking in the flesh compared to walking in the Spirit. He is describing two different opposing state which corresponds perfectly with the teaching of the Apostle Paul when he talks about the 'carnal' or fleshy, against those who were walking in the Spirit.

In verses 7 and 9, John says that the benefit of walking in the light are:-

1)We have fellowship with one another in the unity of the Spirit (agreement)
2)By confessing our sins we will be forgiven
3)We will then be cleansed by the blood of Jesus from all unrighteousness and sin.

Whereas if we walk in the flesh:-

1)We are deceived and remain in our sin
2)There is no truth in us
3)We make God a liar by denying our need for cleansing from all sin.

So John is saying that it is only when we are walking in the darkness that we are blind to our need of coming to Christ for His cleansing from all sin. The letter is to believers and not unbelievers. And believers can fall into the error of walking in the flesh as Paul demonstrated to the Galatians who thought that they could go on to maturity or perfection through the works of the law and not through faith.

Those who were being misled by the Gnosticism and today by the preachers of 'positional righteousness' were walking in darkness because they were still sinning and did not see their need of the cleansing which can be provided by Christ alone. So they thought that they had no sin to be dealt with and were acceptable as they were to be in fellowship with Christ, but John says that they walk in darkness. But if we see our need for cleansing from all sin and come to Christ then He will be able to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. So it is these ones who are saying wrongly that they have no sin not the ones who have come to Christ and have been cleansed from all unrighteousness and are in union with Christ, or in the state of theosis. Brenda Redshaw 2022

I haven't watched the Paul Washer video, but if I was a wagering man, I would wager to say he said something about Jesus being the sole and all consuming goal of our lives.

Ironic how that can be mentioned, even in this thread, and sin and self still comes right back around and eclipses Him, as if sanctification was sinlessness in the first place.

Like I said, ALL in this forum need repentance.

I’m confronting folks who say they no longer sin and therefore I am not born again.

Makes perfect sense!

Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?

By no means!

How can we who died to sin still live in it?

Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.

We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.

For one who has died has been set free from sin.

Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.

We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions.

Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness.

For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

Slaves to Righteousness

What then?

Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace?

By no means!

Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves,you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?

But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.

I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.

For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed?

For the end of those things is death.

But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life.

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 Corinthians 1:30-31 King James Version (KJV)
But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: that, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

I must admit that it seems like there is a desire to argue a point, be correct, and not seek to understand what others are saying or what we have in common on an issue. It does not lead to growth, but instead to becoming more deeply entrenched in an already determined point of view. But as I read the comments, I see much that I have heard and seen for nearly 40 years. Same discussion. Different people. Different generation. No conclusion reached.

Can we say this.

1) Sanctification is God's will for His people. It is a thing so to speak. We should be sanctified.
2) We are incapable of sanctifying ourselves. It is God who does this work in us.
3) A sanctified life will mean that our lifestyle will be different than it was before.
4) As we grow in God, the fruit of sanctification, holiness, will increase. We will find ourselves being different (more like Christ) in a year than we are now.
5) Part of sanctification is our yeilding to God and allowing Him to do this work in us. We could call this the entryway into sanctification.

Interestingly enough, Parham and his followers taught that one was not actually "born again" until they were sanctified. There was a distinction made between justification (what happens at salvation) and sanctification (the work of grace by which we were made completely free from sin, including the ability to live a completely sinless life). For the record, I disagree with this point of view as stated. But it was the way I was taught. If you will think it through, much of what I am hearing in this thread and others could be placed into whether this perspective is something you agree with or not. That is the point. Different generation of people. Same old discussion.

But can it be agreed that 1-5 above are true as stated?

I can certainly agree Travis. There is nothing controversial in the least in those 5 points.

Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?

By no means!

How can we who died to sin still live in it?

Judaism insisted that strict adherance to the law was the way to be righteous. Paul is showing that this is not the case, that the law actually condemns us because we can never truly keep it. Paul's message was righteousness by grace through faith. As a result, the Jews accused him of saying that it was OK to sin. Paul says this earlier in his letter (3:8) 8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

So, later in the letter, chapter 6, Paul addresses this. Through Jesus we are dead to sin. We are crucified and then made alive with Him. It is a real baptism that is pictured in the rite of water baptism, buried and risen again. We are now dead to sin. It no longer condemns us, and no longer has to control us. We have been given victory in the New Covenant where we only had defeat and condemnation in the Old Covenant. The writer of Hebrews also brings this out very clearly.

Sorry Duplicate

Good post Travis, and I believe that most everyone that has access to Sermon Index and that contributes to the discussions on here are not looking for a way to sin more and justify it, but actually as you had mentioned, we hate sin, and love righteousness and holiness with our hearts desire to live lives pleasing to the Lord. If we sin we are quick to confess the sin, but sinning is not something that we do habitually. We also confess and glory in our weakness, knowing that the Lord is the One holding us up and keeping us from sinning. The attitude that it is impossible for me to sin is nothing but pride, and is one of the ways that the enemy sets us up for a fall.

It is also interesting to note that the religious hypocrites trusted in their own righteousness, and looked down on the repentant sinner that humbled himself, and prayed for mercy. He knew his own sin, and cried out "Lord be merciful to me a sinner.”

9 "To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people””robbers, evildoers, adulterers””or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 "But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 "I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.” (Luke 18: 9-14)

But, what sayeth the scriptures….?

19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, ((((Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.)))
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21 (((((If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified,))))) and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strife

(emphasis mine)
The implications of verse 21 are not to be overlooked or understated-

From the outside looking in on this thread, it would seem that there is a need to parse out the difference between "sin vs iniquity” …. These are not the same-

Sin is always a choice to either violate the law of God or our conscience
Iniquity is the condition or environment produced from the practice of sin

ie: if a woman flashed her breast’s in public that would be sin but not iniquity,
however if she took a job in a strip club, an environment where she is compelled to sin, where sin is promoted and rewarded, where she would be punitively punished for not sinning, that would be iniquity-

note; Jesus didn’t say in Matt 21 "depart from me you lawless sinners” rather "lawless workers of iniquity”

We are going to mess up, on our best day in our best effort, much like basketball… no matter how dedicated and disciplined a person is, it’s not a matter of if but when, they are going to miss a shot. That is the NC definition of sin, "missing the mark” but that is far from iniquity -
Sanctification deals more so with iniquity than with "missing a shot” -

note.2; there are at least 8 different words in the NC that are translated as "perfect, being perfected, perfection” (if my memory serves me correctly)
tho the one in question is, at the end of the day, an agricultural term denoting full maturity or being fully ripened.
So an example could be, an orange or tomato where tho it may have bug spots, sun spots or even bruises, tho if it is fully ripened it is "perfected” meaning it can’t get any better from where it is.

Remember we are not like those whom clean up the outside while neglecting the inside… we don’t really concern ourselves with the outside, rather our lot is to seek internal cleanliness,… remember the kingdom of God is within and not in observation of external ordinance's-

Saw this after reading your defination of iniquity.

Chattah, which is most often translated as sin, means to miss the mark.

Awon, often translated as iniquity, relates more to the inner character and points to an intentional twisting of a given standard.

Pesha, often translated as transgression, is more of a willful rebellion against the given standard.

Have mercy on me, O God, according to your steadfast love; according to your abundant mercy blot out my pesha [transgressions].

Wash me thoroughly from my awon [iniquity], and cleanse me from my chattah [sin]!

For I know my pasha [transgressions], and my chattah [sin] is always before me.

Against you, you only, have I chattah [sinned] and done what is evil in your sight, so that you may be justified in your words and blameless in your judgment.

Behold, I was brought forth in awon [iniquity] and in chattah [sin] did my mother conceive me.

Thank you for sharing :)
The last passage shared from psalm 51 really helps to better illustrate it -

Sanctification, in large part, means s being yoked together with Christ…
It’s His righteousness, and we become partakers as we co-labor with Him.
If we abide in Him we will produce much fruit, much like a marriage-
When two people get married they are as married as they’ll ever be, no matter how long they stay married they will never be more married than when they first said "I do” and were pronounced so, but…. "if” they stay married, if they stay faithfully committed they will surely grow in intimate knowledge of one another, as such this intimate knowledge/experience will permeate and ultimately define the marriage. Likewise if we "stay saved” as Keith Daniels used to say, then we will grow in Christ and He in us - while it’s true that He is our sanctification, we nonetheless have an active part to play, without which we will not come to full maturity or a ripened state of "perfection”.
Just like industrial tomato farming, those that abide in the vine and are fully ripened are harvested regardless of their external appearance, whereas those that may appear "perfect” externally but did not abide in the vine are trampled under feet by the harvesters which are only looking for fruit on the vine-

note; interestingly,… bugs seem to sense the sugar content of fruit and cause "damage” to the exterior surface of the sweetest fruit much like the saints that most closely follow Jesus are often the most afflicted, ie; the apostles -
It’s important to note we are judged according to our works or the fruit produced by our co-laboring with Christ and not on our external appearance. The focus on external appearances is more Judaism where one gets duped by planting the "good” seeds from the wrong tree, which are not of the tree of life and therefore have no life in them - this leads to self-righteousness not Christ-likeness -