pyschologically abusive spouses

ONe of my family members is threatening to leave her husband who has been pyschologically abusing her for over 30 years. The Christians in the family are divided in giving and withholding encouragement. Does anyone know what the Bible says about this?

God hates divorce...In Christ,Doug Renz

The bible says that the wife is to submit herself to her husband as to the Lord.The bible also says that the husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for the church.Likewise the bible says that neither the wife nor the husband is allowed to deny the other their conjugal privilege.Lastly, the bible says that divorce is only allowable in cases of adultery, or where an unbelieving spouse has left a believing spouse on the grounds of the faith of the believer.The truth is, if they do divorce for reasons other than the bible allows, they must never remarry - and if they do they will be become adulterers by doing so.Recall that even though it was legal (according to man's law) for Herod to take his brother Phillip's wife (which he did), John the Baptist, labeled Herod an adulterer.So it is that anyone who divorces for unbiblical reasons may be divorced according to man's law - but not according to God's law.An example might help. If I divorced my wife divorced because she was psychologically abusing me, I would be divorced according to the laws of the land - but according to God's word, we would remain married until one of us committed adultery. If she kept herself celibate while I went out and committed adultery - she could thereafter, in good conscience, walk away from our marriage union and even marry another. She was the victim of adultery, and as such she is allowed (though not encouraged) to remarry. I on the other hand commit adultery, and whoever I am with commits adultery.The reverse is true of course, if my wife left me for reasons other than those outlined in the bible, I would have to consider the marriage in effect until such time as she commits adultery - at which point she becomes an adulterer and I have the option to 'legally' dissolve our marriage union. That is not to say that I should sit idle and wait for her to commit adultery, nor should I stalk her to make sure she doesn't commit adultery. My responsibility to her remains to love her and give myself for her - and that remains my responsibility until the marriage is dissolved by an act of adultery.Scripture therefore, --doesn't-- allow divorce because of psychological abuse. Having said that - I don't want to give the impression that people are to just 'put up' with psychological abuse. If the abuser is a Christian, the church ought to be disciplining him. If your relative (the abused) is a believer, she needs to understand that her role (for better or worse) is to remain in submission to her husband just as if as unto Christ – as difficult and unrewarding as that sounds. Marriage can be rewarding – but we do not have liberty to dissolve what God has united just because we are not getting the reward we had hoped out of it. Marriage is optional - but once it is entered into, two become one - and so they must be treated - we must never, --ever-- work to separate what God has joined (nor should we nod approvingly when others would do so).These are easy things to say because they are the truth - but our society has no love for anyone who says them. I suspect that my advice not going to be popular with some.Dan/\\/\\/\\

free,How does the couple stand with Christ? Do they claim to be Christians or not?

dorcas wrote:I think you have to be practical here on two counts. One is, there is nothing to make an abusive unbeliever quit the marital home, which may force the believer to make the move for sanity's sake.This is a way that seems 'right' to you, but there is no scripture to support it. I don't think the original post was looking for personal opinion - but rather for biblical instruction.I agree -- according to the secular morality of our day -- she would be 'forced' to leave for 'sanity's sake.' But this 'morality' isn't biblical, it is secular. This is considered a moral option in secular thought because the personal freedoms and interests of the victim over-ride the biblical instructions concerning marriage. The bible doesn't say that she only needs to submit to a believing and obedient spouse. Her God ordained duty is to submit herself to Him - dare I say it, for better or for worse.dorcas wrote:The second is, I cannot agree that a man who is not submitted to Christ as his Head, need expect the reverence of his wife, unless he loves her like Christ loves the Church, even though he is an unbeliever. If the wife is a Christian, she has the spiritual authority over his maleness.How she serves the Lord in her particular circumstance, is between her and the Lord, not between her and her husband. And I accept that she may feel called to suffer all kinds of persecution because this is what the Lord asks of her, including dying if necessary. But that is up to her and Him.I heard a preacher once admit to encouraging a believing wife to stay with a violent man, who eventually killed her. The doctor asked whether she had been married to a man or a beast. Are you really saying that this is what is required of Christians who are being injured (however) by their marriage partner? Yes. That is exactly what I am saying - or rather, what scripture says.dorcas wrote:(Just for clarity, if the Christian man is being beaten by his non-Christian wife, you would encourage him to stay too, even if he thought he might die in the night. And even though there is no scriptural requirement for him to submit to her - apart from in love, as in the other example. Yes?)Yes again. The bible gives two (and only two) legitimate reasons for divorce. Dan/\\/\\/\\

How does the couple stand with Christ? Do they claim to be Christians or not?The wife (abused) is a strong Christian but not the abusive spouse. I had always claimed that allowing abusive behavior is an encouragement for the abuser to sin. though I had originally told her to stay on irregardless, Im not sure where I am anymore. She is in depression.

In the first six years of my thirteen year marriage, I was emotionally and psychologically abusive towards my wife. I mean I was text book material. Trust me when I say that I could paint a very bleak picture without having to exaggerate, but I believe it is suffice to say that I was abusive - though had you asked me at the time I would have denied it with all my strength.My wife was not a believer, and though I had heard the gospel years before and called on the name of our Lord - yet I was not walking with the Lord during our first six years of marriage. Then one day the Lord got a hold of me, and -IMMEDIATELY- everything in my life changed. I did an about turn that was so jarring to my friends, family,and even my wife's family, that everyone felt I had joined a cult, or was brainwashed - or faking. Most people, to be sure, felt that I was faking it.But as the months went on, and the changes that had taken place didn't disappear, but grew stronger and stronger, my wife began to love me again, and in eight short months, she had come to the Lord.Our marriage has been a testimony of how God can turn everything around overnight, and it all began because one Christian I had come into contact with began to pray for me.My wife wasn't even saved, yet she was praying to God every night that He would change me. Did God hear her? I believe so. God brought a Christian into my life through whom I came under great conviction about my faith - and was the catalsyt that set my feet on Christ's path. God, in his grace, not only answered my unsaved wife's prayer, but used me --ME-- to lead her to Himself.Thank God I can remember this, because it is a well from which I can draw infinite patience when talking about marriage, and how much we should put up with. My unsaved wife put up with emotional abuse for six full years before God answered her prayers. These last seven years have been so wonderful, we are so much in love - you can't imagine it.So, my advice isn't just a cold "this is what the bible says" approach - it is the truth and wisdom of scripture that I am currently living out in my own life.Free, if this person wants to email my wife, I am sure that my wife would love to share our testimony with her, and encourage her. You can send me a private message and I will pass off her email to you.The world has likely been telling your relative to dump this turkey - since there is 'no hope' - but we are not without hope, we have a Father in heaven who hears prayers. She should allow patience to have its reward, as it has had in my life.If the bible doesn't convince, perhaps my own, sad testimony will help.For -His- glory,Dan/\\/\\/\\

Bubba,You should read the mishnah if you want a deeper understanding of that passage in Matthew 5. This isn't the place to explain it, but it is suffice to say that Christ was comparing outward expressions of obedience to internal 'heart felt' obedience. This passage in scripture doesn't complicate or even impact anything I have said. Christ was giving us the straight goods - it --is-- a bonifide act of adultery to lust after a married woman in your heart. But that being true - it doesn't add anything to, or take anything away from what I have said.Likewise the adultress in John 8 doesn't teach us anything about adultery, and therefore doesn't change anything I have said.Your own testimony is sad indeed, and I am sorry to hear how it worked out.I do not believe that the truth of God's word is a burden to anyone - at least, to anyone who wants to obey God's word. In your opinion I am laying an unclear understanding of God's law upon her. I don't share that opinion. I think God's word is a "lamp unto our feet" - that is, it is "instruction in the way of righteousness" - or said simply, it tells us the way God expects us to act. This is not to suggest that she simply grin and bear it. The yoke is only light and the burden is only easy when it is shared with Christ. If she is going to go through this "solo" with no other guidance than "you should do this because it is right" it will be much more difficult. Nevertheless - if she shares the burden with Christ or not - the path she is expected to walk is the same path.Dan/\\/\\/\\

free,I don't think this is an answer anyone really ever wants to hear, and I don't even know if I would feel right telling her this, since I was never abused, so I'll let the Bible talk:1 Peter 3:1, "Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear."This is one of those subjects that isn't joyful, and comes down to "giving up your body to be burned" so to speak. But the conversion of the husband is the main goal. And the wive's responsiblity to God is paramount over her desire to leave.Getting ahold of God in prayer is a must. Not a daily reading, or a two minute folding of the hands, but a laying down of the body as a living sacrifice, admitting that we have "unclean lips." God must do the work in this situation and in all situations, and for Him to work through the wife she must be faithful to be helpful. Can you imagine the celebration in heaven when the husband bows his head to the Lord Jesus? That is the goal. May it come to pass.Matthew 5:10-12 "Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you."

letsgetbusy,Beautifully stated post. We no longer belong to ourselves as we have been bought with a price. Ultimately, the Father's desire for the lost sheep is what MUST be our desire as well-----to the laying down of our own flesh, as you said. Blessings in Jesus, Cindy

This is a living, live testimony, of a break up of marriage, a divorce. And God who sort me for himself.Look at it this way.I had a Husband, used mental abuse on me.I prayed for 5 yrs before I leftI loved Jesus, had done since I was 9yrs.I touched on the Born again faith at 19yrs.But always felt there was something missing. It did not hold me and I walked a different path.I later married my Husband, we had children and he could be nasty but we got by. Some years on, he changed rapidly.And began to mentally abuse me. I can't tell you any other details.This went on for 5 yrs in all.I was hospitalised twice for quite a few weeks.I prayed to a God who, at that time was a dot in the sky. He was so far away. I would say God I know you have the power, to change things. Things didn't change, but he was protecting my children and me. He gave psalm 37, yes there were other people in his life, and I did not know whom.He travelled with his work. So had every opportunity to 'Whatever'.I had stricken fear on many occasions, and cried to God Prayed that psalm everyday until I left that marital home near dying. I continued with the Psalm through a lot of years.God let the doctors see, that my husband was playing serious games with life.God then led me in the next three Months, to get a house, to get finance and to move in when my husband would not be at home. There was only that one-day,I had just been given the house that week. God made this Happen. No one else, because there was no one else to help me, in those years. I was afraid for the safety of my Family, my children and me.So I had to keep talking to God, it went on for months. Before I escaped.I stayed too long I was battered to pieces. And am still coming through it.I wanted my marriage. I pleaded with God for my marriage. But I had to leave and I was heartbroken because the Devil Stole my Husband.I let go, when I saw after I left how he treated our beautiful children. I knew then, that he had chosen some awful thing, over his wife and his children.They are so beautiful, they are so hardworking and they have come up against pressures, that you could not even imagine. God has kept me and my children from deep destruction.I have seen answer to prayer, so many times, yes we have all hurt. That’s nothing, to what it could have without God.He still tries, to destroy his children. He is in Darkness and those other people are in Darkness also. I have come across three, that God pointed out to me.Two years after I left, God filled me with the Holy Spirit, in my own home on an Easter Sunday. I still had not been to a church but had just been on a three-month repentance in my home.He loves me, he cares about me, we walk together, he is there all the time, and he has never gone away from me since that Easter Sunday.This is a living, live testimony, of a break up of marriage, a divorce. And God who sort me for himself.Amenellie

Divorce is permited under violent circumstances. While I don't advocate divorce, if the abusing spouse doesn't want to abide with the abused spouse then the word of God says to let them go. Some times words can be as violent as physical blows and as destructive, "life and death are in the tongue". But when the day is over this gal has to not only stand before God with a clear conscience, but so do all the family members. We will all give an account.....Maybe if the family would stand together with this one and not be divided, God would do something very special and very wonderful , for His glory?

PRAY FERVENTLYYou free and the Family.Pray all of you pray. Pray for Gods mercy. Pray peace for the lady, ask God to place his wings around her. Speak Jesus upon her life. and more prayer, that God would give to you.All of you pray, ask God to have mercy upon him pray into the situation with the Husband, prayers befitting for that Husband, bring him before the throne of God, ask to release him etc. AmenAfter this make a rota, so that someone is in prayer to cover most of the day, each day. Ask God also that he might direct, and give the Lady some direction.Dear God you have been telling your people around the world to Pray Pray Pray this is your message to us this is what you are saying is required for all things pertaining to the kingdom of God.AmenIf she is too ill to pray herself, then let it be you and the Family

Glory to God! I think this kind of outcry is heard by God."And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."

You have all so wonderfully written most encouraging letters and PMs about my sister's dilemma. You have also told your own personal stories, some not easy to tell, Im sure. Unfortunately, I cannot respond to each and everyone individually but I will say this: this is a huge testimony for me personally and for my family as well. My sister is not very good with the computer but I am sending her every one of the responses. We dont live in the same town but we are in constant touch on the phone.I will have to tell you a strange and wonderful thing that is happening even as I write this. My sister has been in my daily prayers for years but after I posted what I did on this forum, she called me to say her husband had a complete change of attitude towards her. Although there has been ups and downs in her marriage, this is one change she has never seen before. If this is so, it is a miracle at work! It must be due to all those of you who prayed for her, Praise Him!If she doesnt leave him, she knows she needs to forgive her husband for all the wrongs he has done her, including messing up her children psychologically. If she leaves him, it is partly due to this inability to forgive.It is very hard to counsel someone on forgiveness. I truly believe its a gift from God. Its easy to tell her how devastating unforgiveness is to her own mental, physical and spiritual health but she has to live with that wound that has not been given time to heal. She is a strong enough Christian to know that if she doesnt forgive then neither would she be forgiven. This is her daily struggle.For my part, I only want the will of God in her life. There is no place safe outside of His will. I have changed positions so many times out of anger and frustration for her sake.Now I know I ,too, must hear from God first.This is one case in which faith is to be lived out. Talking about Scriptures sometimes can be an abstraction. There are all sorts of considerations, finance, housing, children, health etc...and all the messiness of life. BTW, since someone brought it up, I dont think there is any intention for another mariage . She is close to 60.

Your Quote.It is very hard to counsel someone on forgiveness. I truly believe it’s a gift from God. Its easy to tell her how devastating unforgivenes is to her own mental, physical and spiritual health but she has to live with that wound that has not been given time to heal. I was praying for her Husband and part way through I included mine. I have not been able to pray for him for some years. This is a Miracle.My family have prayed but I couldn’tAnd now I can. Amen.It is true, its a complicated tangle and it also includes her Mother Instinct pain, for her children and so she has more pain than just her own.She will also have felt, that is was impossible to protect them many times. The hurt causes anger. The hurt and anger causes deep distress.The hearing and seeing the abuse to herself and the children, is both in her memory and emotions.Inside will be revulsion toward him. It could be hidden or something she may have had to deal with, over the years. Even not able to respect him as a husband, father, or man.Forgiveness is a process that takes place over time. She has been subject to abuse by her husband. It takes your dignity, your very existence as a person and Mother. She has been subject to shock for both herself and her children. It is years of pounding that she and her children have taken.She needs to be assured that she is not expected to forgive, all at once and assured that it will happen gradually. Because she has a faith she already knows the expectations of her, by God. She must not get negative attitudes from people, as this is likened to the abuse. There are many things in daily life that can remind her in her emotions, as she will have sensitivity.She does need a councillor of her own. She needs to speak to someone like this as she can rely on these, to be able to say, just how it has all made her feel. I have found a specialized councillor, for Wife abusers/hitting and other offences of abuse toward women. This has been the most effective by far and actually, non-Christian. I have had others.It will be later that she might talk to others about it, if she feels that is correct.She may need counselling for periods of time through the years.Lots of prayer, prayed by herself.Lots of prayer for her, she is a singular human being as well as married. Her needs need to be met God wants to meet Her Needs.Her husband will need counselling on his own; to tell things that he may never have told anyone. And to get help in that way for himself. Lots of prayer.The children also again might need counselling in time, but that is only if they will. I found that my children would not, it’s as if they feel they are failing as people to go to a councillor. One of mine did find someone to talk to which has been a help but he really needs proper counselling.You see the abuse can run through into the children’s lives and they too can do some of the same things that have been done to them.It is good that you sister has God. This will be what has sustained her sanity.She needs bit, by bit prayer, for healing at the church. To have times, of repentance, of her own. And if possible saying, “with my will I forgive him, Jesus please help me in my heart to do so”. My Mother gave me that prayer to say 1991 as she could see the condition I was in and knew, that I was too damaged at that time, to be able to say ‘I forgive him’.In my case he has not let up on the children, but I find it easier to forgive now than I did way back.Do you have a ‘Womens Aglow’ where she lives in the US. It’s a Christian organisation. I went to ours many times. Got prayed for lots. And loved lots.And venues where there was a visiting preacher. I would go for prayer.Do you know, for the first four years at the church I attended? I went out every week for prayer, that’s how bad things were for me even after I left.And God sustained me week-by-week at the church and day-by-day in my home.Now this does not mean that this will happen to her in the same way. She is damaged in so many ways and even to be with her husband, will mean continuing to have cleared, all that has beset her. They need sorting as people, then as marriage.They may need to be apart, to then come together later. Having being through a process that God wants. You have to realise that the depression she has got, is really not good.If he lets her down, it could have devastating effects on her health truly. I know.Trust from her, is something the husband has to earn after all these years.It doesn’t just happen.I hope this is of help.Gods Love to you allellie

Ellie's quote:I was praying for her husband and part way I included mine. I have not been able to pray for him for some years. This is a Miracle. My family could pray but not me. And now I can. Amen.Praise the Lord, Ellie. This is the most amazing story and I started this for counsel and it seems the Lord chose this to also help others (from this and many PMs I got). Your mail, Ellie sounds like my sister talking. Im sending this to her and I know that she will cry...from finding out that there are others who truly knows how she feels.It would be an imposibililty to get her husband to go to a counselor but then, God has ways to work the impossible.ONe of the children has gone to therapy and the other has turned to the Lord!!! So God indeed fulfills what He has said...All things work together for good....The Lord is working so mightily that it is actually strengthening my own spiritual life. I am waiting to see how her husband, who has made this change, will turn out in the near future. Hope this is not a splash in the pan. Please continue to pray..as we can see, He Lives and He works all the time.

Free and Ellie,Thank you so much for sharing what the Lord is doing both in your sister's life Free and in you Ellie. Blessings in Him, cindy

Ellie wroteForgiveness is a process that takes place over timeHow true that is. Unfortunately sometimes it takes a life time. Even as I counsel my sister to forgive her abusive husband, I too need to learn to forgive some people in my life for the hurtful things they have done me. As a Christian, I find that to be the hardest thing to do especially when there is no true repentance on the part of the wrongdoer. I wonder if Jesus do not do the same thing i.e. withhold forgiveness unless there is true repentance and even open confession.

Hi Dorcas,Everything you said in the last entry on forgiveness is so profound and given in a perspective that I have never seen before. Id like to tear it apart and look at some of the things you said. It's not until one is genuinely sound at the deeper level of the inner man, that one can start doing clever things in one's mind and with one's behaviour, such as being able to be in the same room, or speak politely, or have a genuine sense of wholeness - in spite of the past - which although not necessarily reconciling, is able to function at a practical level.I struggle with this alot. Especially after I read Rebecca Pippert's book which says that "the ultimate expression of hate is indifference" Since we are not allowed to hate, we shouldnt even be indifferent. Thats a tall order when being indifferent is the only escape from being continually abused and trampled upon. Turning the other cheek is for me, not turning to be struck again but to offer the cheek for an act of reconciliation. However, reconciliation requires the action of both party. If the agressor ignors the cheek, running after him/her isnt going to do it]I found loving my enemy no trouble, as long as I was not expected to pretend what had happened had not happened. That is exactly what I do. To have peace at all costs I (and my sister) sweep things under the carpet and "make people feel good" by pretending that a hurtful action or word said didnt happen. This is letting people get away just to return to take another bite. Now that is making an idol out of Peace. While it may not be correct to make war, at least a message should be sent to the agressor that that action is not acceptable and shouldnt be repeated.Sometimes, forgiving is easier once we understand they are not sorry and never will be. It is a cold hard choice for the believer.I find that extremely difficult and dont see how that can be "easier". Jesus forgave his killers "for they know not what they do". But say, if the wrongdoers know what they are doing and yet maliciously do it anyway, its quite a different thing. But you are right, it requires a cold hard choice for the believer which I might add, can only be done with the help of the Holy Spirit. But always wishing to be closer, or validated or acknowledged seems to slow the process down - because that's not going to happen soon or ever.Im wondering if the above is a Christian attitude but it is truly a fact of life!!! Some people are just not interested in any move towards a closer relationship or even a reconciliation.

Hi DorcasYou wrote:Indifference is a way of numbing out, to try not to feel the pain of separation. It may be a way of dealing with hate, as a coping mechanism, but it's not active hate. I thought about the above for a long time and Im still having to give it a little more air.Indifference is indeed a way to "numb out" and also an alternative to lashing out. While thinking about enduring suffering, something occured to me. In the face of suffering at the hands of others, things become easier if there is, at least in the mind of the abused, a purpose for such endurance. In the case of my sister, her endurance was for the sake of her children. Now that the children have left home, this purpose is no longer valid. Endurance then become "meaningless". Now, for her to stay on, she needs to find another purpose to do so. If, like one of our brothers suggested, her purpose is to lead the husband to the Lord, then staying will again have a meaning. Each one must find their own meaning. It is a search that nobody can do for us. Serving the Lord should be our Ultimate meaning but we have to decide what, in our particular case, constitues such a service. Should my sister stay on and try to lead her husband to the Lord? Should she walk away so as not to encourage him to sin at her expense? These are questions that only she and she alone can answer.