Dear brother and sisters in Jesus,Not that I think I am crazy, but I saw a video segment the other day about these people that have the gift, they can do super maths and they see numbers and letters etc. They are supposed to be a new race of beings, sort of like the x-men. I cannot think of the name.Well, the other morning, I was really struggling witnessing to a group of Roman Catholic fanatics who were really rattling me about salvation being a mixture of faith and good works, and as I lay in bed I just asked the Lord if he could help me.First a page flashed through my mind full of words, then again, then a single line on a page, and finally 'Romans 10:9,10' I looked it up and could not stop myself from shouting... God knows the answers to the question, seeing it is His word.I remember having a similair thing happen, but it was definitely audible. I was a brand new baby born again, spirit filled believer, and new about as much about the bible as a baby might know about rocket science. Someone asked about a particular verse, at that instant I heard Romans 5:5 ... it was the one. I was so blessed...so were they.I am sure stuff like that happens everyday. Just wanted to know if you have a couple that you would like to share, I got the time to read.In Jesus,Aeryck :-P
Ever see stuff in the morning?
Yeah, bro. Same thing has happened to me many times, but, one is very striking. I'd been trying to understand something about a personal situation. I'd already done loads of Bible study and had an answer in lumps, but, not that final link which connected my pieces together into a cohesive argument. In those days, the Lord was waking me nearly every day with something new going on in my spirit. (I needed all the help I could get :-P ) but this one was special. Within the context of having no idea what was missing, as I woke up, I heard the word 'worship'. I also had a picture of my Bible open at the right place, but, couldn't tell where that was!As I lay there, thinking 'Jesus said something about worship... hmmm .... who was He speaking to...? um ...' It came to me JOHN 4! Yes!And that was wonderful! I understood soo much more about the difficulty I was dissecting, never to go back to such cloudiness again. Amen.
I think this is a valid phenom, although I don't think it may always be a particular ministry of the Holy Spirt. Many times I think this experience reveals something of the way our minds work. (However, I do believe the Lord can speak through this cognitive sorting to assist you in your ministry...)I think our conscious mind can be so willful that we can actually overlook what's "already" there. Letting our creative and intellectual processes settle down, putting to rest our goal oriented agendas... allows us to finally observe and listen. Whether this brings information to light that is beyond ourselves, or merely stored within ourselves such as in undiscovered assembly of facts or even a simple memory is something I don't know. Maybe there are times when the Lord can impart something completely foreign to us when we are asleep...not looking for it. (Certainly dreams have biblical precedent...)Creative people in many fields have expressed having similar experiences. Sleep is often the best technique for arriving at sublime and yet profound conclusions in problem solving.Article on "sleep thinking".
I've had many such revelations of the Spirit. God knows exactly what I need to hear - that will draw me towards himself and understand his ways. He often gave me specific verses for specific situations, which I have dated in my Bible. The verses sometimes accompany other forms of revelation. I could never have come up with those references in my own natural thinking. They were put into my spirit - clearly. That is what God promised in Jer. 31:33 "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. ...." This never happened for many years after the time I "asked Jesus into my heart". That was because I was not yet truely born from ABOVE. I was merely following after the word of man. Then, when I was truely born again, ie the SPIRIT, I became a new person with the Spirit of Christ working within me. I no longer relied on my own wisdom, the understanding of man, or second-hand teaching. (which I had done previously)I learned to put my faith in God, and lean on him. That was a long process of dying to self - still on going. We always hear of those who try to copy the authentic - who are not authenticly born from above. That makes people think that true divine revelations do not occur any more. Also, when something is not of our own experience, we have a hard time trusting that it can be possible.Aeryck, It sounds like God is really speaking to you and guiding you along. Do take his revelations seriously! Do become accustomed to waiting on the Lord in the stillness - and he will direct you.I like the "sleep" article, and I think that we should take that seriously too. Just like eating properly, we have a responsibility to take care of God's temple so his Spirit can work through us. Diane
When I first read this thread, I trembled and got off of it as fast as I could. Please don't take me wrong, I more than believe and know, what 'possibilities' are out there.From the day I was first saved on, I can't speak of what 'experiences' I go through almost daily now for almost 30 yr.s and with good reason I believe.But the Lord did say in Joel, etc. Joe 2:28-29 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: and also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.These experiences have not been uncommon, since the first Church, but from my own personal experiences, may I just add to this thread by saying a few things.Never be afraid to "test the spirits".Some people are afraid to doubt a phenomena, enough to put it to the Test.But God commands we do, and will accommodate you in any test you do.If it's from HIM, He is very patient to "confirm it from His Word", in one way or another and I believe to test 'things', at least up to 2 to 3 times before I can say, "it came from God".I don't necessarily believe in 'sharing' these type stories/events, unless they are for The Whole Body... otherwise, we are putting the workings of the Holy Spirit on the same table as any other possible "Lounge" topic.Please don't get me wrong, especially you Aeryck, because for one, I don't doubt your experience at all, but I just felt that now is the time, for us to truly look at what "will" become the norm, for the Last days Saints.Be very humble in these things, and ponder them in your heart, and again, always "test all things" ... The Lord will honor that.The first thing I was taught, by a very wise prophetish type person, was that "God never gets angry if we test 'experiences',,, instead, He prefers we do so."Secondly, God will never put a 'compulsion' on one to do any act 'suddenly', as if, If you don't do something right this second, then something terrible will happen.There are a few instances where this may be the case, Like if you have a CO2 build up in your house and suddenly feel compelled to get out of the house ... but on the more minor issues, He will give you time to "test the spirits", because it's His Word to do so.In the Last Days, not only will the Saints be experiencing more of this, but there is/and will be, more "spirits of deception" around, then ever .... so NOW is the time, to learn Discernment and how God works and how deceptive spirits can work.I highly recommend two books, (and others are welcome to disagree) but from my own experience into "phenomena", that as I said, started as soon as I got saved,, and with me being so naive about such things, I needed books like these and also, the Lord God was gracious to send me a husband, who's feet were firmly planted on the floor academically, so keep me "Biblical", through my early years of these things.We especially need to read about the "dangers of the passive mind" ... and two books that helped me, many years ago on that was, War on the Saints and Latent Power of the Soul.I'm sure there were other such books that I had to read, but for now, these two stand out in my memory the most.There are counterfeit spirits out there ... and you know that only an expert can catch a counterfeit 100 dollar bill ... and no one would counterfeit a $3.oo bill - for obvious reasons.I'm not writing this just for you Aeryck, because I know most all of us either have or will, go through 'phenomena' or experiences, outside the norm, in our walk.To write much more on this, would be to only re-write what other's have already written in books, like those mentioned and which do a much better job of it.Signs and wonders, will be common place in the last days, but will originate from two opposing sides ... so if these things are inevitable, we have a space of time Now, to fine tune our "receivers" to not pick up a wrong station.One writer said, "the deeper you go into Christ ~ the higher league of intelligence in the demonic realm will target you." That is beyond just true.Believe it.Some have come to 'grasp', that the closeness to Christ that we can strive and arrive at, is unlimited... even to the fulfilling of the verse "as He was in the world, so be ye" and you can only read the Gospels & Acts, to understand what that means.But add to your knowledge - 'WISDOM'.We can "be as He was, when He was here" or as Paul was in Acts, but with it, the assaults and attacks from an intelligence from below, will seek to deceive, puff-up, and lead astray.No light subject, and as with the quoting of God's Word, we must always be maintaining the due reverence in communicating either, and should be handle all these things 'of God' with great care.I pray, all would seek ALL of Christ that they can have, for the sake of other's welfare first and because of their utter LOVE for Him and His Truth only.God Bless & protect His elect, all through this world, should be our prayer also.God Bless you.
Never be afraid to "test the spirits". Some people are afraid to doubt a phenomena, enough to put it to the Test.Certainly testing such things are good sense. As I understood the first two posts I didn't think they were describing something spiritual, although they described it with spiritual terminology. Personally I think it's the brain thinking clearly after a good nights sleep. At the risk of dissapointing the first two posters...I think this type of thing is very unsupernatural for the most part. Therefore I would agree that we shouldn't be quick to "prophesy" about what we woke up with per se...afterall the next brilliant deduction that we wake up thinking about might be the one we almost missed on our tax return.(Praises!)When I say it isn't supernatural, I don't mean that the Lord isn't working through the daily renewal of our complex organic minds. I'm simply saying that "sleep thinking" isn't channeling or recieving external intelligence...although it may surprise us what our brains are sorting out while we sleep. I think concepts about how demonic forces can attack "the passive mind" during sleep are noteworthy discussions but much of what I have read on these topics seem speculative and worrisome. Besides...if we haven't been tending the store during our waking hours there is little we can do while we are in REM. I think Peter's hope promise to us "Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." applies to us even in our sleep.I prefer to approach "mysteries" with an economy of miracles mindset rather then look for something supernatural. I feel too many people today, believers and unbelievers alike, are seeking supernatural or even paranormal explanations for their individual experiences...perhaps we are becoming too superstitious.(my own opinion) The organic brain is miraculous and mysterious enough on a biochemical level without adding any new age concern.Now I don't suppose the brain is only mechanical...but even if the brain was just a highly advanced machine I still think as Christians there are good and bad ways to program it. I can't help but think if Aeryck and Dorcas are waking up thinking about scripture then they must be spending their waking hours inputting scripture into their minds!MC
Please don't get me wrong, especially you Aeryck, because for one, I don't doubt your experience at all, but I just felt that now is the time, for us to truly look at what "will" become the norm, for the Last days Saints.GrannieAnnieI really think we are moving into dangerous territory here. I can see no biblical reason for thinking that the 'last day saints' will be better/differently equipped than has been the case for the church through the centuries. I am sure than you would not want to support them but this idea undergirds the whole 'Last Generation/Latter Rains/Omega Man theology. If you have biblical reasons for saying that the 'last day saints' will live differently I would be grateful to hear it.
1st Compton, Aeryck said nothing about being asleep.2nd Philo, read Daniel chpt.s 7 through 12.I am not a "latter rain" person, but a Bible believer that Knows what it will take for the Saints to Overcome.You see what you want, and I'll read it as I see it. And it would be better if you read it all yourself.In the last days there 'will' be deceiving spirits out there and we do need to test these 'experiences' we will be seeing and Joel chpt. 2 IS a last days verse, if you look at the whole thing .... and I wouldn't let a cult of Latter Rain or any other cult that twists Truths to rob me of the Truth found plainly in His Word.
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. Mar 16:17-18 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. 1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (WHAT IS HIS IMAGE ?)Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus1Co 3:21-23 Therefore let no man glory in men. For All things are yours; whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; All are yours; and ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.1Pe 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God, in 'all things', may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion forever and ever. Amen.Mar 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them. Mar 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations. Mar 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost. 2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. {Jn.16:13}Again read Daniel 7 through 12 and then Revelation.Jesus says, the tribulation will be worse than ever was since the world began, so if you don't think His promises that we'll "do exploits" and that "the righteous shall shine as the stars, bringing many to righteousness" and that God's Grace is poured out to "the degree of the Persecution, etc." then it's time for you to get some books out.Be careful who you accuse of what. I don't come unto your Forum that's on Your Website and "look for an occasion" to cast a dark shadow on your posts ... and haven't on this Forum neither.I pray for you sir. God have mercy on you.Col 2:6 -10 ~ As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord (By Faith -), so 'walk' ye in him: rooted and built up in him, and established in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ, Because in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily ye are 'complete' in him,which is the head of all principality and power.
1st Compton, Aeryck said nothing about being asleep.You're right! (I guess you weren't sleeping either.;-)) I was quick to assume from the title of the thread that we were talking about the ideas that come to us in the morning while we are fresh from a good night's sleep. I intentionally linked the benifit and effect of sleep to his experiences...something that Aareck or Dorcas did not do. MC
No problem brother. I do that too. Sometimes I have to read stuff twice.But I did copy that news story when it was posted, because I've been trying to tell my husband about his need to get more sleep.Thanks for posting it and thanks for your kindness.Annie
With me it is the verse I open Scripture to. Many times I will open a Bible and read one verse that either answers a question so specifically that it brings tears, and other times a loving rebuke that cuts right to the heart. I could make a list of what has happened the last seven months or so, many times just culminating in the opening of the Bible and the reading of a single verse.
Wow! This has turned into some discussion, when all aeryck asked was if the Lord enables anyone else, to 'see' in the morning...!Feel I need to own up to using the word 'waking' in my first post. Maybe that threw y'all - cos it was me who assumed when aeryck was laying in his bed, that he'd been asleep, too.Doesn't this just show how easily we make assumptions based on past experience - like bed=sleep? :-PAnnie,I'm sure your anxious post serves a purpose here, for those who may not be sure when God is speaking to them, who do need to develop their discerning faculties. I once was such an one.However, I do think it's unlikely the enemy would be feeding relevant scripture verses to the saints. Don't you? (There is another poster on SI who also gets chapter and verse ringing through their head.) This has NEVER happened to me! :-( (Maybe God knows I needed to read a lot more before there was any possibility of it!)Yes, it takes time to learn to recognise the character of God's voice through the Spirit illuminating scripture and also when He speaks not through scripture directly, but, this discernment is needed by all saints as a basic faculty for preserving them from avoidable harm. The less sound doctrine one has heard in churches, the more God uses His word to correct what one believes. On being vulnerable to receive from the wrong spirits, I agree there is danger, and personally, fought a very long battle against what can go on during those twilight hours - and what one can be woken up for, from sleep, because of dreams, evil spirits or memories... BUT THROUGH IT ALL, I have found God more than faithful. He has spoken to me in dreams, and used them to strengthen my faith. Many times when I've just woken up and am ready to be written on like a fresh sheet of paper (because, as Compton said, our minds are not cluttered with the care of the (previous) day - at least, that's one aspect of what I think he was meaning) God has connected my understanding to truth, both in a revelatory way, and in bringing scripture together with 3D events (in which I've played a part) to elucidate His mind.Of course, the enemy isn't keen on this procedure going smoothly all the time, but, God's word has an enduring quality and He is not a pushover. I know I've made BIG mistakes in what I've been gullible enough to believe in the past, but that comes/came from other influences such as other people's ideas, or, my own desire to sin. I believe now, (and my testimony in the second post happened nearly 10 years ago), that I'm more attuned to the voice of the Shepherd. Certainly, I am not advocating that a believer should give obedience to the voice of another. But, neither is it possible not to 'hear' that there are other voices and as you remind us (as Paul) none of them are without significance. The believer always has the power of choice, and I believe we are 'kept by the power of God' as we choose to bring ourselves under His lordship.
Amen Annie.I love the Scriptures.I agree with you about the false prophets and teachers, angels of light.I know these aren't your exact words, butI have found out that they are everywhere.One thing that has helped me is to keep a Journal of what God shows to me, and then when I'm being attacked by the enemy, I can re-read what He has given to me, and know what a great God we have.I'm of the age that He gives me dreams.How I praise Him for it.Just check for the fruits of the Spirit.God Himself will show His Children.We are to turn our eyes upon Jesus, so much the more now, than ever before.God Bless all of you.Nellie
In the last days there 'will' be deceiving spirits out there and we do need to test these 'experiences' we will be seeing and Joel chpt. 2 IS a last days verse, if you look at the whole thing ...I am not unfamiliar with Daniel and we have been in Joel's 'last days' since the day of Pentecost. To create an eschatological timetable from Daniel and then to build in an expectation of a different kind of Christianity for the 'very' last days has been discussed in these threads from time to time. It is an abberation of orthodox hermeneutics and is to be resisted. If there are specific references in Daniel to such things which I have missed I would ask you to point them out for us all.
Dorcas my friend, I think you should maybe re-read my post ... because it will show that I feel that our relationship with the Trinity in this age makes ANY possibilities on how HE may chose to express Himself to us or use us or speak or give direction.And please learn that that post was not an "anxious" post, as you called it. I mean that in friendship in peace, but it is just truth.There will always be 2 sources of spiritual phenomena, and one must learn the difference, and all the more as we are entering the Last Days.I did not include you in my defense of Aeryck, because I could not say to 'whoever' that you did not "just wake up", as what seemed to be the rebuttal here about your and Aeryck's post.Love you sister.Annie
Re: by Nellie on 2005/8/22 10:16:17Amen Annie.I love the Scriptures.I agree with you about the false prophets and teachers, angels of light.I know these aren't your exact words, butI have found out that they are everywhere.One thing that has helped me is to keep a Journal of what God shows to me, and then when I'm being attacked by the enemy, I can re-read what He has given to me, and know what a great God we have.I'm of the age that He gives me dreams.How I praise Him for it.Just check for the fruits of the Spirit.God Himself will show His Children.We are to turn our eyes upon Jesus, so much the more now, than ever before.God Bless all of you.NellieThat's a beautiful post Nellie and very Sound.God Bless you and your prayers for yourself and the others you fellowship with :-).Praise God !!!Annie
PHILO -Jesus declared ....Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.Here in the Temple, Jesus read from Isa 61:1 & 2, BUT, He had to stop short there, because verses 3 on 'WERE YET to be fullfilled'.If you understand how partial quoting in the N.T. of the OLD, had a "very significant" reason .... because those days had not come as yet and are still future tense, then you'd understand why Peter only quoted two verses from Joel 2.That is False Doctrine to say we have been in Joel chapter 2 since then. How on earth have we been in Joel chapter 2 since Pentecost, with the exception of the only 2 verses Peter quoted, Just as Jesus only quoted His Two, for the Same reasons ???I think you better go back and read that chapter again.If you're familiar with Daniel & Revelation as you say, then let's get a Good thread started on Daniel and Revelation, cuz that's my very best favorite subject. :-DDan 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits. Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars forever and ever.
There will always be 2 sources of spiritual phenomena, and one must learn the differenceAnnie,Isn't that just exactly what I said? :-PIs this a classic case of crossed wires? :-(I thought I was backing up what I understood to be the content in principle of your post...Yes, you sounded 'anxious', to me. If you're not 'anxious' that's great.... my mis-hearing.And I didn't notice your defence of aeryck, at all sorry! Now that I know that's what you had in mind, I'll come back and re-read the whole thread and see if I understand it better, later. Personally, I thought Compton's contribution about sleep, to be very relevant, in light of my having just woken in the account I gave of my experience. I haven't explained clearly enough.... I had prayed the Lord would bring a clue to me in the morning, as I was finding He often gave me new understanding as I woke up. The word 'worship' which I 'heard' in my spirit, was the LORD speaking to me. This was my missing link conceptually. Now all I needed was the place in scripture that proved it. I hope this makes more sense to all reading.
I liked Compton's article too, like I told him.And all three of me, understands you completely :-? :-P :-D :-) ;-) Love you !!!me again
That is False Doctrine to say we have been in Joel chapter 2 since then. How on earth have we been in Joel chapter 2 since Pentecost, with the exception of the only 2 verses Peter quoted, Just as Jesus only quoted His Two, for the Same reasons ???Peter said 'this is that' which was spoken by the prophet Joel. It is because dispensationalists of a particular school have sliced scriptures into sections that the period which the scripture refers to 'as the last days' has become such a confusion.The 'last days' was Joel's expression. Peter said 'this is that'. I rest my case.Acts 2:17 (KJVS)And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 2Tim. 3:1 (KJVS)This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. Heb. 1:2 (KJVS)Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 2Pet. 3:3 (KJVS)Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
Jesus declared ....Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.Here in the Temple, Jesus read from Isa 61:1 & 2, BUT, He had to stop short there, because verses 3 on 'WERE YET to be fullfilled'.If you understand how partial quoting in the N.T. of the OLD, had a "very significant" reason .... because those days had not come as yet and are still future tense, then you'd understand why Peter only quoted two verses from Joel 2.That is False Doctrine to say we have been in Joel chapter 2 since then. How on earth have we been in Joel chapter 2 since Pentecost, with the exception of the only 2 verses Peter quoted, Just as Jesus only quoted His Two, for the Same reasons ???It is obvious what I was saying above in that ... Isaiah was 'partially' quoted by The Lord, because it had/has not yet happened or been fulfilled.And Peter could only 'partially' quote Joel 2 because it had/has not yet happened or been fulfilled.See ?Joe 2:1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; Joe 2:2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. Joe 2:3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them. Joe 2:4 The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run. Joe 2:5 Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array. Joe 2:6 Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness. Joe 2:7 They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks: Joe 2:8 Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded. Joe 2:9 They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief. Joe 2:10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: Joe 2:11 And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it? Joe 2:12 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: Joe 2:13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil. Joe 2:14 Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God? Joe 2:15 Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly: Joe 2:16 Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet. Joe 2:17 Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O LORD, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God? Joe 2:18 Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people. Joe 2:19 Yea, the LORD will answer and say unto his people, Behold, I will send you corn, and wine, and oil, and ye shall be satisfied therewith: and I will no more make you a reproach among the heathen: Joe 2:20 But I will remove far off from you the northern army, and will drive him into a land barren and desolate, with his face toward the east sea, and his hinder part toward the utmost sea, and his stink shall come up, and his ill savor shall come up, because he hath done great things. Joe 2:21 Fear not, O land; be glad and rejoice: for the LORD will do great things. Joe 2:22 Be not afraid, ye beasts of the field: for the pastures of the wilderness do spring, for the tree beareth her fruit, the fig tree and the vine do yield their strength. Joe 2:23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month. Joe 2:24 And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil. Joe 2:25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpillar, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you. Joe 2:26 And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed. Joe 2:27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed. Joe 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: Joe 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. Joe 2:30 And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. Joe 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. Joe 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. I wouldn't rest your case just yet friend.Love in Christ Jesus.Annie
Did I remember to add what and How the N.T. would quote certain "portions" of a Chapter, and this was because of something called...."Partial fulfillment" of that Chapter and not the Entire fulfillment of that Book or Chapter ?Both Jesus' quote and Peter's, were given as examples of a present tense, (in their time and on) "Partial fulfillment" of a Chapter or portion of Scripture ... we all know there were no Chapters back then.
am sure stuff like that happens everyday. Just wanted to know if you have a couple that you would like to share, I got the time to read.Back to the original question: I'll give you an example of an early morning revelation that I had: As I awoke one morning I saw a very lush green garden. The grass and trees were all wet. In the distance I could distinguish a man, and I asked, "who is that" The answer was: Christ. Now that was a significant vision because for a long time I had been studying about REST - ie entering God's rest. I had also been studying about physical rest. For 10 years prior to that I had suffered from Chronic Fatigue Syndrone.The vision that morning had an incredible spritual message. You see, that was also the day I was suddenly healed (completely) My physical healing, paralleled a significant spiritual milestone - spiritual rest - experiencing Christ's salvation - and entering into his presence. (the vision) The wet on the grass signified a storm that had passed over - the stormy times of illness, suffering, wrestling with God, etc etc, Here are more examples: One day when I was praying for a youth, I "saw" him straddling a fault line. The meaning seemed to be clear. On one hand, he wanted to serve God, and on the other hand, he wanted to fit in with his peers. I told him the vision and he admitted that his heart was divided. One night, when I was youth chaplain, I had a dream about the youth having a wild party. When I told one of the girls about it in the morning she got all flustered and said, "Well, why can't I have some fun!" Really I knew NOTHING about her having a party during the night, but by her response, she gave herself away. It happened that she was the main instigator of a lot of trouble. (and later fired) God revealed it all to me in a dream!! Diane
Let me tell the funny story of a man who was seeking the Lord about God's will and direction for his life, he flipped open the Word of God and pointed to a passage of scripture and it read," Judas went out and hanged himself", not having the results he hoped for he tried it again and it read, " what thou doest do quickly". :-) :-) A cute and humourous story. I use it to illustrate a point. While the church of Jesus' Christ is supernatural in its make-up and while individuals will display supernatural acts or manisfestations in thier witness or service at times, it all must still bring our focus right back to Jesus, and He (Holy Spirit) when He comes will testify of Me (Jesus Christ).Now as to my personal experience more often than not , The Spirit of God will give me understanding in His Word and I'll recieve wise instruction in the way to proceed. We always must remember that the Old Testament Saints as well as the First Century Saints in the NT had an awesome knowledge of the Written Word, weather through oral transmission , scrolls memorized (a true prophet had to write the first 5 books from memory without error). Or other forms of transmission that are afloat out there. So all experiences are really to be conditioned by our knowledge of the Word of God in written form and weighted against that.I do believe that at certain times such experiences can and do happen but I also don't believe it's healthy to constantly relie on or even seek such experiences. It's kinda like mircles. It's great to know we have a miracle working God, but if we are in constant need of a miracle from God in our lives then we really need to evaluate what 's really going on in our lives. God bless one and all Bro. Daryl
Let me tell the funny story of a man who was seeking the Lord about God's will and direction for his life, he flipped open the Word of God and pointed to a passage of scripture and it read," Judas went out and hanged himself", not having the results he hoped for he tried it again and it read, " what thou doest do quickly".What a wet-blanket response to the examples I gave in response to Aeryck's request!!!!!!!!! Can't one simply rejoice in what God did and is doing in the lives of countless numbers of his servants to futher his gospel and strengthen his people - without always having to express grave concerns and reservations. It seems like there is so much fear of revelation - trivializing it, mocking it, or suspecting that it might not be biblical or authentic. Does the Father give a stone to his children who ask for bread? Consider this: "In those days the word of the Lord was rare: there were not many visions." 1 Sam. 3:1Wasn't that because of unbelief in Israel, and couldn't that be also true for our culture - including many professing Christians? Diane
Did you even bother to read the rest of the post?
I do believe that at certain times such experiences can and do happen but I also don't believe it's healthy to constantly relie on or even seek such experiences. It's kinda like mircles. It's great to know we have a miracle working God, but if we are in constant need of a miracle from God in our lives then we really need to evaluate what 's really going on in our lives.Dear Bro Daryl,I think I understand your concern because, as has been discussed earlier in the thread, during the twilight hours, one is vulnerable. This is exactly why God uses it to speak to those for whom it is a good way to communicate. There are many reasons, not least, the availability to listen and hear in the quiet start of the day, of the believer. Sometimes this is merely a reflection of how busy they will be later.This makes me wonder if it is something to do with lifestyle and/or gifting. When a baby is born to a very busy mother, it manages to commandeer the only quiet time (usually night) to make it's appearance, or at least stake its claim to top priority attention, by promising to come soon (labour). The principle of being at rest and open to hear from the Lord, is what gives Him permission to speak.'if we are in constant need of a miracle from God in our lives then we really need to evaluate what 's really going on in our lives.'Isn't 'the just shall live by faith' and ongoing continuous miracle? That's how I see it, anyway. From what Jesus said, John 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father..' that He too saw things all the time, or 'heard' His Father speaking to Him. Didn't He rely on this?I'd agree with you that what the Lord says in a vision or a dream must tie in with scripture and it is a good test to give consideration to that. But, there comes a time when one is less surprised than at first, though they always seem awesome because they are not superfluous to the lives of those who receive them. They are as much the fabric of every day survival. Such waking visions (as Leanne Payne calls them) bring much needed answers and direction for overwhelmingly practical outworking in life.In defence of my own experience, I was in true extremis when the Lord spoke to me that morning. I picked that example, because it is easy to share it publicly, but He was bringing all sorts of things to my understanding day by day by day - all day - not just in the mornings.This beats having to go up and down the mountain like Moses did in Exodus 19 and 20, to spend time with God. (I mean, we can all spend time with God if we wish. Back then, only Moses had to 'hear' for the whole nation. No wonder he was always on the move.)
I appreciate you comments sis :-) What I meant by the miracle comment comes from my own experience. We went through a tough time where the cupboards were bare and no food, monies, ect were in sight. We lived on the edge for months. During that time the Lord sent the monies in and the provisions in to take care of my wife and children and all our house hold needs. The provisions came from alot of different places as people we didn't even know were moved to give to us. While that experience is treasured in my memory, I wouldn't want to go back and relive it.I have seen God speak with clearity very specific things to very specific circumstances or needs that needed to be ministered to. And in every instance Jesus' was glorified. Alot of time in hindsight I could trace back the event in scripture and prove it out.My wife says I analynze to much. :-? I'm generally slow to speak concerning anothers spiritual experience, and most of what I write isn't really directed toward anyone specifically but often in a general sense is a warning for balance and in that I often come across wrongly. :-( I read that book by Brother Lawrence, "Practicing the Presence of God". I read it as a babe in Christ and it stuck, imagine that! Ever since it has been my daily, weekly, monthly, yearly, lifestyle.I do cherish those early quiet times where God speaks to me or quickenes something of His Word to me however, I have had times where it seemed different too, and as I tested it against the Word I had to reject it. So I guess for me, for myself, I chose to error on the side of caution, I'm speaking for me only here. Cor. says the spiritual man judges all things. Anyway, God Bless my Prayers,-n- Love in Christ to all who call upon the name of Jesus. Bro. Daryl
The provisions came from alot of different places as people we didn't even know were moved to give to us. While that experience is treasured in my memory, I wouldn't want to go back and relive it.I have seen God speak with clearity very specific things to very specific circumstances or needs that needed to be ministered to. And in every instance Jesus' was glorified. Alot of time in hindsight I could trace back the event in scripture and prove it out. My wife says I analynze to much. I'm generally slow to speak concerning anothers spiritual experienceBro Daryl,Thanks for your testimony here. Praise the Lord for those provisions! I've heard a brother who spent 6 weeks in an ICU after a serious accident, testify it was the most precious time of visions and the Lord's presence, but he wouldn't want to go back there either! (True!)On analysing, I think there does need to be. And it cannot destroy the word of God. I can see why you would want to reassure yourself scriptural principles were borne out, especially when you may wish to use your own testimony when preaching.Now you've owned-up to getting revelation yourself 8-) , early in the morning! it balances up your other concern that no-one should depend on it unduly, but I guess, if you removed all those little insights from your knowledge, you'd have a harder time doing what you do...! I could not have lived without mine, at the time.
Hi Aeryck..."First a page flashed through my mind full of words, then again, then a single line on a page, and finally 'Romans 10:9,10' I looked it up and could not stop myself from shouting... God knows the answers to the question, seeing it is His word.I remember having a similair thing happen, but it was definitely audible. I was a brand new baby born again, spirit filled believer, and new about as much about the bible as a baby might know about rocket science. Someone asked about a particular verse, at that instant I heard Romans 5:5 ... it was the one. I was so blessed...so were they."That is truly amazing, Aeryck. When I first read your post, it reminded me of the testimony of Charles Finney. Charles Finney was studying to be an attorney in rural New York. During this time, he began to secretly desire a relationship with God. As an prideful and educated man, he was quite embarrassed of his desire for God. Thus, Mr. Finney was quite miserable. He was unimpressed with what he knew of then-modern Christianity, but he was miserable in his current state. He stayed in this state until he could take it no longer. He decided to "promise" that he would give his heart to God.One day, he took a walk along a secluded area of woods where he wanted to be alone to pray to God. He did this so that no one would see him. On this particular day, he was so desperate that he vowed to give his heart to God before he left the woods. But while there, Finney found it difficult to pray (which brings to mind what Charles Brent said, "Pray hardest when it is hardest to pray"). In his misery, he persevered. However, he would sometimes hear a rustling in the woods. He would stop to regain his composure so that no one would know that he was praying. A sense of hopelessness came over him. He realized that he had made a vow to God, and he was angry at himself for doing so. He felt so helpless and discouraged, that he became physically weak -- to the point that he wasn't certain he could stand. Right then, he thought he heard someone approaching. He opened his eyes, and quickly tried to regain his composure like before. But right there, he had a revelation about the pride in his heart -- and this was the great difficulty that blocked his vow to give his heart to God. Here is what he says in his own words:"An overwhelming sense of my wickedness in being ashamed to have a human being see me on my knees before God, took such powerful possession of me, that I cried at the top of my voice, and exclaimed that I would not leave that place if all the men on earth and all the devils in hell surrounded me. "What!" I said, "such a degraded sinner I am, on my knees confessing my sins to the great and holy God; and ashamed to have any human being, and a sinner like myself, find me on my knees endeavoring to make my peace with my offended God!" The sin appeared awful, infinite. It broke me down before the Lord."It was an awesome revelation of his spiritual condition. I suppose that all of us have felt it before we came to the Lord. I remember the first time I read his autobiography, this testimony overwhelmed me to the point of tears because I remembered how I felt the night I gave my heart to the Lord out in a field at summer camp. This is where your story, Aeryck, sounds so similar to Finney's:"Just at that point this passage of Scripture seemed to drop into my mind with a flood of light: "Then shall ye go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you. Then shall ye seek me and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart." I instantly seized hold of this with my heart. I had intellectually believed the Bible before; but never had the truth been in my mind that faith was a voluntary trust instead of an intellectual state. I was as conscious as I was of my existence, of trusting at that moment in God's veracity. Somehow I knew that that was a passage of Scripture, though I do not think I had ever read it. I knew that it was God's word, and God's voice, as it were, that spoke to me. I cried to Him, "Lord, I take Thee at Thy word. Now Thou knowest that I do search for Thee with all my heart, and that I have come here to pray to Thee; and Thou hast promised to hear me."What an awesome thing! God spoke to Charles Finney a verse before he had read it! Since then, I have met a Tarahumara pastor deep in the huge Sierra Madre Occidental in the rugged, forest covered mountains of southern Chihuahua, Mexico. The Tarahumara are animalists, and few speak Spanish or are even aware of the "outside world" in Mexico. Many still live in caves and are not aware that other groups exist other than the Tarahumara in the area. Before he was saved, this pastor became deadly ill. The government doctor assigned to the Tarahumara told him that there was no hope. He only asked him whether he wanted to die in the small Mexican town, or if he wanted to brave the seven day run back to his village. He decided to return home to die. He eventually grew worse. One night, he sat out of his cave in the mountains looking at the stars. He wondered if there was a "god" who was supreme to the other "gods" -- perhaps one that could have created all things. This pastor said that he heard a voice (even though he is unsure of whether it was audible or inside), and the voice told him, "I am the Lord, the God who created all there is. If I heal you, will you serve me?" He spoke to God and told him, "Yes." The voice told him, "Now give me your heart."He gave his heart to God, and later began leading other Tarahumara to Christ. He is now the pastor of a large congregation of Tarahumara believers. The day that I gave my heart to the Lord, I had read a verse that morning (for my youth camp "share group") that grasped my heart (Matthew 11:28-30). I had never really studied the Bible before, but I had heard lots of Scriptures in Church. However, this one grabbed my heart like no other! That night, as I walked alone in a field, I heard the Lord tell me, "You don't know me." The voice was not audible. It was a deep, inner voice. But it was real. I poured my everything out to God that evening. I told the Lord that I would trade everything I am, and all that I would ever become, if I could only know Him and be His friend.So, yes, I know that the Lord can speak to us! :-)
Chris,Thats amazing, I have heard simaler stories of this happening in Islamic countries as well.Leads us to another agelong question, who takes the iniatative in us getting saved?...Just playing 8-)
And Peter could only 'partially' quote Joel 2 because it had/has not yet happened or been fulfilled.I don't dispute that the moon has not 'turned to blood' yet. The point I am trying to make is that the period of the 'last days' began with the incarnation and that to create another period called the 'last days of the last days' has no biblical warrant.Behind your comments are the assumption that we are now in, or approaching, this period. I do not accept this. I reject the dispensational paranthesis plan of Daniel's weeks. We are 'in' the last days and have been since the incarnation. I can see no justification for any other view.
Philo ~ I'm not side-tracking Aeryck's thread again.Here's the place for this.https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=6767&forum=36&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0Last post on page 3.Sorry, I don't have time to code the link, my husband's coming home for dinner now.Annie