The bible is not "the Word"

Why is the bible called, the "Word of God" or "God's Word"? Where in the bible does it say that scripture is the word of God?John 1: 1 - 14 (KJV)  1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended F1 it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power F2 to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. The scriptures above, John 1:1-14, make it very clear that the Word is referencing Jesus. God's Word is Jesus. And so, why do people call and reference the bible as "God's Word" when that is clearly not what the bible says?

Where in the bible does it say that scripture is the word of God?God, who at many times and in many ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds, (Heb 1:1-2)God "spoke" in time past by the prophets, therefore those writings could accurately be said to be "God's word". Of course, we are also incredibly blessed and privledged to have the complete revelation in the "Living Word", Jesus Christ.In Christ,Ron

I don't dispute that Christ is the Word of God, however...“If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;” (John 10:35, KJVS) This clearly equates the scripture with the 'word of God'.God has revealed Himself in... creation: “The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.” (Psa. 19:1-2, KJVS) but this revelation was always incomplete and is now severly damaged.the scriptures: see the verse above. This revelation is perfect but incomplete.Christ Himself: the verses you quoted and many another. This revelation is perfect and complete. He is God's last word.

In none of the scriptures you listed does it claim scripture, law, or the bible is the "word of God."Luk 3:2b ...the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.The Holy Spirit came unto John. He didn't find a bible in the wilderness.Luk 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God. Jesus is speaking of the Holy Spirit. Jesus gives life through the Spirit. Man cannot live by bread which satisfies the flesh. Man must also seek after the Spirit and live by the Spirit. Luk 5:1 And it came to pass, that, as the people pressed upon him to hear the word of God, he stood by the lake of Gennesaret,Again, this is the Holy Spirit speaking. He wasn't reading a bible.Luk 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.Again, this is speaking of the Holy Spirit. Luk 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it. Again, this is speaking of the Holy Spirit. Act 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.Again, this is speaking of the Holy Spirit. It even says, "they were filled with the Holy Ghost and spake the word of God."Act 6:2 Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables. This is speaking of Jesus. They were basically saying in this verse, "We should not stop preaching the word of God and serve people food at their tables."Act 13:5 And when they were at Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews: and they had also John to their minister.Preaching of the Holy Spirit.Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.Preaching of the Holy Spirit.Rom. 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.Holy Spirit.2Co 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.Holy Spirit.2Co 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.Holy Spirit.1Th 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.Holy Spirit.2Ti 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Holy Spirit. (Jesus is truth. There is no truth other than Jesus.)Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. This is most certainly the Holy Spirit...."a discerner of thought and intent of the heart." How can a bible do that? "Not trying to put you down, just saying I think you need to study things a little more closely before you make declarations like that." I appreciate the encouragement. I have studied and prayed about this. Blake

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heartI believe Krispy has it as clear as it can be said. Why are you having a conflict with the Word of God?

philologosthe scriptures: see the verse above. This revelation is perfect but incomplete.from the previous posts by you that I've read i would be very interested if you could expand on this, not having a go, just willing to learn.God blessmatt

KrispyWow, excellent response! Talk about a fervent student of "God's Word"! It don't get more simple then what you wrote. Awesome! :-?

BlakeI appreciate the encouragement. I have studied and prayed about this. Pray more till you get it right. :-)

Hi,I hope that the following, will be of help to you beenblakeThe Bible, that is the written Word of the one true God. The word "Bible" means "the books." The Bible is one volume that consists of 66 separate books.The word "Scripture" is also used to refer to God's Word. This word comes from a Latin word which means "writing." When the word "Scripture" is used with a capital "S" it means the sacred writings of the one true God. The word "Bible" is not used in the Bible. It is a word selected by men as a title for all of God's WordsThe Bible is the written Word of God. He inspired the words in the Bible and used approximately 40 different men to write down His words. These men wrote over a period of 1500 years. The perfect agreement of these writers is one proof that they were all guided, by a single author. That author was God.Hope this helps, to answer some of your questions.elliebeenblake wrote:Why is the bible called, the "Word of God" or "God's Word"? Where in the bible does it say that scripture is the word of God?John 1: 1 - 14 (KJV)  1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended F1 it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power F2 to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. The scriptures above, John 1:1-14, make it very clear that the Word is referencing Jesus. God's Word is Jesus. And so, why do people call and reference the bible as "God's Word" when that is clearly not what the bible says?

Quote: "Pray more till you get it right."The bible does not say anywhere that "scripture" or "Scripture" or is the word of God. If I am wrong, then show me and prove me wrong.

Dear Ellie, Thank you for sharing. That was informative. In addition, something to think about:The bible is inspired by God. To say something is inspired by God and written by God are two different things.For example, let's say that I need to write a letter to my dear friend Krispy. In order to do so, I call upon my secretary to write the letter. I tell her the message I wish to convey. My secretary then writes the letter using his own words.The letter has been inspired by me. It also conveys the message I wish it to convey. However, it is not a word for word record from my mouth. I did not write the letter, however, it was inspired by me. The bible was written by men and inspired by God. I do not disagree with this. However, the bible was not written word for word by God. A message from God was embedded in the text. That message, however, has been documented by men. This means that the message of God is written in different ways. Different writers convey the same message in different ways (and in different languages).With that said, this brings us even farther from calling the bible "God's Word." So why do we?

Dear Joshua99,I am not having a conflict with the Word of God.Hebrews 4:12-13 (KJV)12 For the word of God is full of living power. It is sharper than the sharpest knife, cutting deep into our innermost thoughts and desires. It exposes us for what we really are. 13 Nothing in all creation can hide from him. Everything is naked and exposed before his eyes. This is the God to whom we must explain all that we have done. The following verse says "him." It continues to say "This is the God..." Hebrews 4:12 is referring to the Holy Spirit when it says "the word of God". The bible is very clear. Am I missing something?

beenblake wrote:The bible is inspired by God. To say something is inspired by God and written by God are two different things.No one said God wrote the word I am sure we all agree on that, the prophets wrote it, but God spoke the words to be written they were his secretary so to speak, but it was Gods words so it would be the words of God this is what the Bible is the words of God it has never claimed to be anything else, I really don't understand why your having such a hard time understanding this. :-(

The Father speaks things into creation. The Son is the Word that the Father has uttered. The Holy Ghost is the living breath that carries the Word. To understand why the Bible is the Word of God, you must understand that when the concepts given to us by God are spoken, the words spoken are literally spirit. Not just spiritual, but spirit. Those inspired words of Scripture are literally words of the Almighty God. Thus it is the Word of God. The Father is God, the Word is God, the Holy Ghost is God. When we preach the gospel, we are a vessel of the Holy Ghost, allowing the Word to move through us.So my take is that it is one of those points that must be understood spiritually, not by man's reason. We don't win souls by putting words in a certain order, any heathen can do that. We win souls because the Word is being moved through us.

This is the answer I have been waiting for:letsgetbusy said it best: "We win souls because the Word is being moved through us."The bible is just a book without the Spirit. It is text on a page. It says nothing and means nothing without the Spirit of God. This is two fold. Yes, God used His Spirit to write the bible through humans. Additionally, the bible contains a message that cannot be understood by anyone who does not have the Spirit. And even of those who do, they will misinterpret the scripture if they seek to understand it by thier own knowledge, rather than seeking help from the Spirit. Only the Spirit can understand things of the Spirit. The Word of God is not a book, it is the Spirit. God speaks through more than just the bible. For generations, even before the times of the bible, God has been speaking through humans. He has called prophets and servants. Some of these were told to write down thier prophecies and texts into a book we now call the bible.Thus, the bible is not the only source of God's Word. He speaks through prophets, preachers, and humans of our day as well. For those who walk with the Spirit and who sacrifice thier will to God, He speaks through them as well. Some of you have turned the bible into an idol. Some of you worship the bible as if it were God Himself. It is not. The bible is just a book. Some call the bible the Word of God in such a manner to elevate it's authority above Christ. Christ is supreme. Some of you try to read the bible and argue over the text without first seeking after the Spirit. The Word of God is Christ, and the basis for all other things is upon Christ. As Christians, we are to place our trust and faith in Christ. We are followers of Christ our Lord. He is our Lord. By this, we should submit unto Him and seek after His counsel. Some of you though, would rather trust men, knowledge, and academics. Some of you seek after truth by looking into history. Rather than turn to Christ in Heaven, you are seeking after your own logical reasoning of the scriptures. Rather than give into the Spirit, you seek to discern the bible for yourselves. You even teach by your own opinions and deny the power of the Spirit.When you do this, you turn the bible into a book of law. You say, "This is what the bible says, and it cannot be any other way." You do not accept that your interpretation could be wrong. Rather, you use the bible to leverage your own desires. You turn it into law, and just like the Pharisees, you use it to promote your own ideas in order to benefit your own righteousness rather than trusting in Christ. Seek after Christ and He will direct your path!!!The bible is a tool for teaching and preaching. It bears a message that God will plant and spread throughout the world by means of His Spirit. The bible is not a book of law by which to judge or condemn the world. It does not bear laws that you can force on people. Do you not know that Christ set us free from the law? He set us free from the bondage of the law so that we may worship God freely in love. He set us free so we would not "have" to follow the law of God, but rather, we would follow God's law out of love. For anyone who tries to turn the bible back into a book of law is foolish. They are seeking to return to a state of slavery and bondage. They are taking God's grace and giving it back to Him. Christ set us free so that we can love. Let us love each other in mercy, grace, forgiveness, and fellowship. Do not be mistaken, the message the bible bears by the power of the Holy Spirit (the Word of God) is Holy. The bible bears the Word of God. The bible BEARS the Word of God. It is a testimony to Christ. It is not Christ. The bible is NOT GOD. It bears witness to Christ. The bible is not the Word, rather it bears testament to the Word. The Holy Spirit is the Living Word of God. It is alive. It flows. The Spirit flows through the text of the bible into the hearts of believers. The bible does not just speak in one way. It speaks to different people in different ways. The bible cannot be used as a standard of law by which to judge others. God speaks to each person's heart in accord to His will. The Lord is our Lord and He directs His children in accord to His will. What does this mean? The Holy Spirit is without error. However, you and I, all of humanity is with error. We can misinterpret the bible. There are whole religions that have formed over misinterpretations of the bible that have misunderstood the message. It is vitally important that we humble ourselves before the Spirit and seek after Christ in all things. Before we read the bible, we should pray. We should always ask Christ to show us truth. Or else, the Devil will deceive us. When we share scripture with others we should be humble. We should accept the possibility that we are wrong. Only Christ is right. Do not think you are right. Do not be so prideful to label someone else as false. How do you know you aren't misinterpreting the scripture? How do you know Christ is not trying to speak to you? Be open to what others have to say, and have a teachable Spirit. Is that not wise? Is that not what we should do? The bible was written by humans. They are faulty. It was not written word for word from God. If it was, the bible would not exist in any other language or any other version. When God wrote out the ten commandments with His own fingers, they were Holy and preserved in the ark. The bible is not preserve in an ark. It is not sealed. The bible is written in many languages with many versions. There is no authoritative bible. The four gospels are in agreement, however, they are not exact. They are from four different witnesses to Christ. God wants His children to walk in faith. He wants people to worship Him, and Him alone. Even the bible must be trusted in faith. We must first trust in Christ, then we can turn to the bible and learn of the Spirit as it stirs in us. All things come from Christ. This is the message Christ laid on my heart to share with all of you. Let us turn to Christ and follow Him. Blake

Wo!!!OK, You are telling us, to follow Jesus only and the Holy Spirit Only.In that case, I would like to know, who gave you the authority to say this and all the against, the Bible things you have said.I have read your written word. and now I am going also ask you:Who are you. What are you.What Church or whatever, do you attend.What exactly is the faith, that you are in.I would need to know the answers to these questions, so that I would know where you are comeing from in your Faith. As this might enable me to understand what you are saying and to look further at the things you have written. ellie

WOW!!!!!! It is astounding how many people are popping up on this site to let us all know just how theologically out to lunch we all are... WOW, thank you for helping getting my head back on straight beenblake. ( This post is probably not inspired.)lol Greg ;-) I just had to come back and add an edit: I have to suggest that you read 2 Timothy 3:15-17 ( I know it likely has NO weight of authority with you) and pray for insight. If you do not look to the scripture for insight/wisdom, how do you know that the spirit you follow is holy? ( 1 John 4:1-3):-?

I have no authority. I am nothing. I am not even worth the words I write. I also have nothing to prove to any of you. I am not going to give my resume because you will judge me. That is what you seek to do.The Lord gave me this message to write. He told me to tell it to all of you. There is nothing in it that contradicts scripture. Although some of you will argue this. You do not understand because you choose not to understand. God is not the author of confusion. He does not deliver mixed messages. However, some of you read the bible as though you were the author. You read it and think you know exactly what God wrote and what He was trying to say. I admit to you now that I do not know. I have much to learn myself, and if I have said anything wrong, then the Lord who is my Lord will correct me. He will judge me accordingly for He is my judge. He alone.However, I do not take credit for any of this. The Lord has a message for some person or people on here. I do not know who. I only pray that person or those people will open thier heart and listen. God Bless

Dear Annie Grannie,I do not think we are in disagreement.You are right in saying that God is not the author of confusion and always speaks in agreement. He would not guide one speaker such as the apostle Paul to say one thing, then guide another like a preacher of today to say another. However, what we must realize is that there are two parts to this. First of all, the Holy Spirit delivers a message unto a man (or woman) to deliver. This person has free will and at any time may choose to deny God. If this was not true, then all preachers would speak exactly the same, with the exact words of God. However, we know that throughout history, men have preached different messages. The apostle Paul even corrected the apostle Peter who was filled with the Spirit. No man is perfect except for Christ. Secondly, the Holy Spirit then must help a person to read and understand the message being delivered. When we read the bible, we can easily misinterpret it. God is not the author of confusion, however, just because we think we know what the bible says, does not mean we are wrong. Many times, people read bible verses out of context. They read just a line of scripture and then try to use that text to prove thier point. If I did this, I could prove anything. I once had a woman tell me that her sins would be paid for with death, and that she didn't need grace, all because she read "for the wages of sin is death." Do you see, then, that we must first be open to the Holy Spirit to guide and direct us as we read the bible? If we try to read it without Jesus, we could read anything we wish. There people who read the bible and turn it into authority. Now, if we assume the bible is all authority, then we must obey it like a book of law. We must treat every command as a law. Paul said in Romans that we are to submit unto authority. We are to submit unto government. If this is true, then we should never rebel against any authority. We should never protest. Do you think men like Luther and Tyndale who protested against the authority of the Catholic Church would have accepted this? If the bible is the authoritative "Word of God" as so described, then Tyndale and Luther were hypocrites and anyone who follows them would be hypocrites too. However, we know this is NOT true. We know the Holy Spirit lead these men to translate the bible so that we may all read the bible. At the time, the bible was so revered, they would not translate it into another language. When Luther and Tyndale translated the bible, they "altered" the words, and were judged because of it. Back then, people turned the Church into the supreme authority. They gave it more authority than the Spirit. People today are doing the same with the bible. They are trusting more in thier own interpretation of the bible than they are in Jesus. God wants us to walk in faith. We must trust in Jesus. He directs us to His spoken word that flows through the Spirit. I am not saying we reject the bible or it's teachings. However, we have no place to give our own interpretation of the scriptures more authority than Christ.

My dear Krispy,"If thats the truth... then lets all throw away our Bibles and have a group hug... sing We Are The World... and do whatever we want. After all, how can we know what God wants and expects from us?"Christ set us free from the law. We do not "have" to obey it. We are not forced into obeying the law. In fact, God's grace is sufficient to save any sinner no matter what the sins. He saved the apostle Paul who murdered Christians, did He not? Even after Paul was saved, He still sinned. Paul admitted to a thorn in his side. However, God said to Paul His grace is sufficient. You see, if you think we "have" to obey the law of God, then you missed the whole point of grace. God's grace was made available so that we could obey the law with pure hearts out of love. At first, the law was given. We were forced to obey it. If we didn't obey the law, we did not have life. We were forced to love God. Our love was based upon rewards. It is like this, if you do what God says and do what is good, you goto Heaven. If you don't, you goto Hell. This sort of thinking says you are saved by works, by what you can do for God, rather than what God can do for you. However, Jesus died to set us free from the law. He died to give us grace. By this, our goal is not to seek reward. We don't do good things to get into Heaven. We don't follow the law to get blessings from the Lord. That is not true love. True love comes when we willingly give our best without seeking anything in return. True love comes when we say to God, "Whether I goto Heaven or Hell, I still love you." True love says, "Lord, I want to obey your law because I love you." When Jesus died, He made this possible. He gave us grace. He said, that we don't have to follow the law to get to Heaven. Anyone who believes in Him may have everlasting life. Anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved. By this, we are free to love God with a pure heart, with true love. This is what God wants from us. He wants a relationship based on true love and not on obligation. This means that when we obey the law of God, we do so not because we are seeking a ticket into Heaven, but because we honestly love God. We do it out of love, and not out of obligation or reward. Now, do not mistake what I am saying. I am not saying we should go out and sin. That is talk of the Devil. However, if you go out and tell someone, "Obey God's commands or else you are going to Hell," or when you tell a person, "Do good or you will be judged." Then what you are doing is telling that person they "have" to obey God or else. You are removing love.Jesus died to put an end to this. He died to set us free from the law. He did so that we may love God with pure hearts.In doing so, Jesus also sent us help. He knew we couldn't follow the law on our own. Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit to help us. And so, if we are truly saved and filled with the Holy Spirit, we will not seek to sin. We will sin, yes. However, we will not seek to sin. Additionally, we will conquer sin with the help of Christ. He will be our strength to overcome sin. God makes us good by transforming us into new creatures. If we try to be good and follow the law by our own power, we will fail. We cannot. Only God is good. Only God can live up to His own law. And so, we need God to help us to be good and not sin. What all this means is that if someone is truly filled with the Spirit, even though they know God will forgive them for thier sins, they will not go out and seek to sin. They will not because they truly love God and they do not seek to hurt Him. This is made possible by the power of the Holy Spirit.However, if someone does not sin on thier own, if someone does not sin just because they are trying to seek rewards, God is thier judge. He knows what is truly in thier heart. He knows they are being selfish. If you would like me to pair this up with scripture, I will show you. I do not include scripture, however, because I know you have read the bible. In addition, whether I say it or you read it out of the bible, you will not discern truth in either, unless you are open to the Holy Spirit.I can only deliver the message. Whether or not it will take root and grow, can only come from God. God Bless.

The bible cannot be used as a standard of law by which to judge others. God speaks to each person's heart in accord to His will. The Lord is our Lord and He directs His children in accord to His will.If we follow this line of thought to its conclusion then every man becomes a law unto himself, doing what is right in his own eyes. There must be a standard of truth, we must search the Scriptures daily to see if these things be so.In Christ,Ron

Dear Ron,"If we follow this line of thought to its conclusion then every man becomes a law unto himself, doing what is right in his own eyes. "What you say would be true if there was no such thing as the Holy Spirit. However, we are followers of Christ and He speaks to us all in our heart.There is a standard of truth. Jesus said, "I am the truth." He is the standard.

What you say would be true if there was no such thing as the Holy Spirit. However, we are followers of Christ and He speaks to us all in our heart.The problem is that our hearts are deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. We tend to hear what we want to hear and call it the leading of the Spirit. In Christ,Ron

"Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ, ' and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains. "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. [Matthew 24:4-14]Without a love for truth and a mental storehouse filled with God's Word, people cannot discern error. Many are drawn to the self-focused empowerment of goddess-philosophyGod's Word gives us the antidote to Satanic deception, as stated in II Timothy 3:16, 17, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine (as the antidote to the false Christs), for reproof and correction (as the antidote to the rationalization of sin), and for instruction in righteousness (as the antidote to humanistic philosophies), that the child of God may be brought to maturity, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Quote:Without a love for truth and a mental storehouse filled with God's Word, people cannot discern error. Many are drawn to the self-focused empowerment of goddess-philosophyThankyou for the above MrBillPro.The Holy Spirit moved within me when I read the above as true. You have put into words that which I feel, about things that I have read that are in error on this Posting.I have to say that I have felt that it has seemed to be like, near blasphemy of God and Gods Word.I pray almighty God, for your Mercy and Grace upon any errors. Amenellie

Blake,After reading all of your post i must say that i sense in my spirit that you are not "real" or truly Born Again. Your very humanistic and carnally minded in the ways and truths of God's word. You approach everthing witht the flesh even tho you say its with the Holy Spirit. I don't believe you. You may perhaps be Jehovah Witness or Morman or some other sect. At any rate. I wish you would stop. Krispy has continuously like others in love to help and explain as much as they possibly can but you just don't or won't except the truth but that of your "own" interpretation of truth.I hope everyone will forgive me for speaking out like this. :-(

phew.... dont really want to weigh in on this heated debate but to quote Acts 15:7a And when there had been much disputing, well if they did it why not us?beenblake,Jesus said, "I am the truth." is that a quote from an fallible book written by a fallen man (John), maybe Jesus said 'I am a way, a truth and a life'I'm wondering how you can say you have no authority, (thus you say the Bible is not authorative) and then quote it to the people here as authorative ?after all Jesus believed the Bible was authorative even to the point of being subject to it's teachings Jesus obeyed the Word of God, not man. He was subject to it. If some leaders’ view of inspiration were true, Jesus was subject to an errant, rather casually thrown-together ‘Word of Man.’ Jesus would have been subject, then, to the will of man, not the will of God.However, in all the details of His acts of redemption, Jesus was subject to Scripture as God’s Word. He obeyed it. It was His authority, the rule by which He lived. He came to do God’s will, not His own, and not man’s. Note how all of His life He did things because they were written—as if God had directly commanded. He fulfilled Old Testament prophecies about Himself. The passages are found all over the Old Testament. We cite here only a very few quoted in the New Testament: Matthew 11:10; 26:24, 53–56; Mark 9:12, 13; Luke 4:17–21; 18:31–33; 22:37; 24:44–47.He Himself is the Word of God. All the words from His lips were the Word of God. (John 3:34). If He had desired, He could have written a new set of rules and they would have been the Word of God. But, He did not. He followed without question the Bible already penned by men.This is the sensible thing for every believer to do. May all who read this adopt Jesus’ attitude and become subject both to Him as Living Word (living Torah) and to the Bible as the infallible, written Word of God.full article available here Jesus Christ on the infallibility of Scripturematt

Quote: "Psa 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.God seems to hold a pretty high opinion of His Word... and when we dont, He is not lifted up."Dear Krispy,What you say makes perfect sense if God's Word is Jesus. However, since you disagree with this, what is greater: Christ or God's Word?

KrispyKrittr wrote:I'm not sure where you got your twisted view of things, but I have added you to my prayer list.KrispyThere you go! As McCloud would say. ;-)

beenblake wrote:Dear Krispy,what is greater: Christ or God's Word?beenblake, which is greater to you your heart or your mind? Me personally I could not live with out either. :-?

Many are misunderstanding what I am saying. I am going to simplify this as much as I can. The bible is book with words inside. Those words have no authority without Christ. An athiest can read a bible and it says nothing to them, and means nothing to them, because they do not have God. The bible has no power. To them, it is just a book, and many would say it is a poorly written book. If the bible had power and authority, then an athiest would instantly be convicted of thier sin the minute they read a bible. They would instantly be saved just by reading one word.What gives the bible power and authority is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit filled humans who then in turn wrote what God directed them. This process was not a word for word process. It could not have been. God did not sit there and dictate word for word to Paul what to write as He wrote all the letters in the new testament. (By the way, the new testament wasn't complete when Paul wrote that scripture in Timothy about the scriptures. He was speaking of the Old testament.)It is important that the bible was written by humans. The bible is a testimony to Jesus. How can God be a testament to Himself? Think of court room with a witness. What kind of defense would someone have if they were the only person to take the stand? Rather, there are four gospels that testify to Jesus. They were written by humans. They were intentionally written by humans so as to provide a testament of Christ. (Notice that Jesus did not write any book in the bible Himself. This is why.)If God wanted to write an infallible law, then He would have written it Himself. He did so with the ten commandments. He wrote them with His own finger. The stones they were written on were held Holy and sacred. They were preserved in the ark. God did not preserve the bible in it's original form. In fact, we do not even have one, not one single original document of the bible. We do not have one single original letter Paul wrote, in his own hand, with his own ink. We have copies. This is significant. This is important. God did this intentionally. He wanted people to follow Him by faith. You must first have faith in Jesus, then the bible really begins to talk. People don't get saved by reading the bible to them. They get saved by Jesus Christ. It is the Holy Spirit who convicts a person of thier sin. Not the bible. You can read the bible all day everyday to a person for the rest of thier life. Unless they believe in Christ, they will not be saved. Likewise, the bible takes the same faith. You must first have faith in Christ, then you can have faith in the bible. It is not the bible that speaks, teaches, counsels, and corrects a person, it is Jesus. When a Christian, who is filled with the Holy Spirit, reads the bible, the words become powerful to that person because the Holy Spirit inside of them stirs. Christ who is abiding in thier heart speaks to them through the words in the scriptures. Evenso, Christians have free will. That is why even Christians still commit sins. God cannot speak to them through the bible, or any other way, unless that person opens thier heart to listen. God cannot transform a person into a new creation unless that person let's God. Even if you are Christian, you still need to learn and grow. No matter what age, or how long you have been Christian, or how smart you are, or how faithful you are, you still have room to grow. Even I have much room to grow. I have listened to everything being said and have taken it all to heart. I have prayed over everything that people have said, and asked Jesus what I should do. I do not enjoy being judged or persecuted by all of you, but I do it for Christ. He has been leading me. Please do not mistake my words. I am not saying we should throw the bible out the window. I am not saying the bible is corrupt and we should dismiss it. I am not saying the bible is wrong and false. This is what I am saying: Christ is Lord. Christ is the authority. Jesus is truth. He is the judge. He is king. He is sovereign. He is God. The bible is not God. It bears witness to Jesus Christ. The bible is good for teaching, correcting, and instructing. It is not a tool for judging others, or condemning people, or for forcing people into belief. The bible bears no authority, and when you say it does, you are stripping authority from Christ. The bible is just a book. All authority has been given to Christ.

Dear Krispy, I have not rejected scripture. I have rejected any other interpretation of scripture that differs from the Word of God (which is the Holy Spirit).In love,Blake

beenblake wrote:Many are misunderstanding what I am saying. I am going to simplify this as much as I can. The bible is book with words inside. Those words have no authority without Christ. The bible is not God. Let me correct you a tad:The bible is book with living words inside.The bible is not God. How would you even know who God is without the Bible?I understand were your coming from if your saying the Bible is not the physical God, I can agree with you there.

Go granny, go granny, go granny go Got a pretty little flower bed of white gardenias Go granny, go granny, go granny go. :-P

beenblake you started this thread with thisThe bible is not "the Word"So the Bible is not the word? so what is it?I just know the mods are ready to hit the lock button at any time on this thread, but please don't do it right after I post, it might make it look like my post was the last straw. :-P

I was struck by this post...KrispyKrittr wrote:I have no authority. I am nothing. I am not even worth the words I write. I also have nothing to prove to any of you. I am not going to give my resume because you will judge me. That is what you seek to do.Do you not see that you are judging us? How do you know what we want or dont want to do?The Lord gave me this message to write. He told me to tell it to all of you. There is nothing in it that contradicts scripture. Although some of you will argue this. There is plenty that you wrote that contradicts scripture.You do not understand because you choose not to understand.You're judging us again... how do you know we choose not to understand? Maybe we understand all too well.God is not the author of confusion. He does not deliver mixed messages.Then your message couldnt be from God because your posts are confusing, and the message is mixed.However, some of you read the bible as though you were the author. You read it and think you know exactly what God wrote and what He was trying to say.You're judging again. Most of us here stick to judging teachings and doctrine... you're judging motives and the heart. I admit to you now that I do not know. I have much to learn myself, and if I have said anything wrong, then the Lord who is my Lord will correct me. He will judge me accordingly for He is my judge. He alone.Perhaps it's time for you to be quiet and learn from those on this site who have been walking with the Lord for years and years, and have a lot of wisdom to share. You've just arrived here at SI and set yourself up as a messenger from God to straighten us all out. Instead... humble yourself and take advantage of the great teaching and wisdom this site has to offer. You seem to enjoy being the "lone prophet", the "voice of one crying in the wilderness"... and the great trap of that is: Pride. Be careful you dont fall into the trap.However, I do not take credit for any of this. The Lord has a message for some person or people on here. I do not know who. I only pray that person or those people will open thier heart and listen. Perhaps... just maybe... the message is for you. For him who has ears to hear, let him hear.KrispyAnd this conversation..John 8 The Validity of Jesus' Testimony 12When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." 13The Pharisees challenged him, "Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid." 14Jesus answered, "Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. 15You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. 16But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. 17In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. 18I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me." 19Then they asked him, "Where is your father?" "You do not know me or my Father," Jesus replied. "If you knew me, you would know my Father also." 20He spoke these words while teaching in the temple area near the place where the offerings were put. Yet no one seized him, because his time had not yet come. 21Once more Jesus said to them, "I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come." 22This made the Jews ask, "Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, 'Where I go, you cannot come'?" 23But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be,[a] you will indeed die in your sins." 25"Who are you?" they asked. "Just what I have been claiming all along," Jesus replied. 26"I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is reliable, and what I have heard from him I tell the world." 27They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father. 28So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him." 30Even as he spoke, many put their faith in him. The Children of Abraham 31To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." 33They answered him, "We are Abraham's descendants[b] and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?" 34Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37I know you are Abraham's descendants. Yet you are ready to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38I am telling you what I have seen in the Father's presence, and you do what you have heard from your father.[c]" 39"Abraham is our father," they answered. "If you were Abraham's children," said Jesus, "then you would[d] do the things Abraham did. 40As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41You are doing the things your own father does." "We are not illegitimate children," they protested. "The only Father we have is God himself." The Children of the Devil 42Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? 47He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God." The Claims of Jesus About Himself 48The Jews answered him, "Aren't we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?" 49"I am not possessed by a demon," said Jesus, "but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death." 52At this the Jews exclaimed, "Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that if anyone keeps your word, he will never taste death. 53Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?" 54Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. 56Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad." 57"You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!" 58"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.Seems like the Pharisees in Jesus' day quite upset with him claiming something that did'nt fit into their paradigm of biblical interpretation.

KrispyKrittr wrote:Well... I think I'm done here. After awhile it becomes an exercise in futility. We have to be careful where we cast our pearls. I've said all I know to say about this whole misguided concept. Nothin' more to add.Shakin' the dust off... as God's Word tells us to.KrispyYou must have been lured out of retirement. If you see no point then, thats fine. Lets move on.

I read through almost all the pages on this and i think it is silly. wether or not the Bible is called the "Word of God" or that holy writ is refered to as the word of God what does it reall matter, the earth is the lord and the fullness thereof, God owns all--even language--hate to seem so simple here, but the word OF God, i.e. belonging to God--hence it makes even the "inspired thought" God's intellcetual property. Best to stay off of silly rabbit trails that cause offense and waste time. If it is not EDIFYING, then why is coming out of a child of God's mouth? oops! is child OF God descrptive of us or is it phrased some other way? (tounge firmly in cheek) God's Best to you!

Quick could someone please grab that stick out of the barrel this is getting stinky. :-P

BlakeDrawing on your analogy of the secretary...For example, let's say that I need to write a letter to my dear friend Krispy. In order to do so, I call upon my secretary to write the letter. I tell her the message I wish to convey. My secretary then writes the letter using his own words.... although the exact wording may be chosen by the secretary, in the same way a translator has can choose between different wordings in a tranlation, the Word itself still belongs to the originator. A secretary isn't expected to add, nor take from the meaning of the message - hence the curse at the end of the book of Revelations. The message is fully endorsed by the secretary´s employer as his being own. If it wasn't, the function of a secretary, a translator, or prophet for that matter would be pointless. What would be the point of sending the letter at all if it was considered corrupt because a secretary typed it out? Why would God have bothered to inspire prophets if the message conveyed by them was corrupted in the process? Another problem with discarding the authority of the Bible, is that you are left without a fixed reference point. Your answer may be that your refernce point is "whatever the Holy Spirit tells me". If you have just discarded the Bible's authority based on the possibility of human failure, how can you be so sure of your own spiritual hearing?Contrary to what eastern religions may teach, there is such a thing as an absolute truth. Anything which isn't based on some fixed references, guidelines and the limitations they impose, can never be, nor become strong. At this point you may ask "what are God's limitations?". God cannot do anything contrary to his nature. He cannot break his promises for example.PassingThru

Sir, I did not read the entire thread, so please excuse me if someone has asked this question....why are you asking this question? Are you trying to worm your away around something the Scriptures is asking you to do but do not want to do it? Just wondering...seems a little odd to me that a Christian would post this question unless he is a new one.ginnyrose

Hi beanblake,Did you ever come on here, as a member under the name of Logic, or one of his friends?ellie

Quick could someone please grab that stick out of the barrel this is getting stinky. surely you're not referring to me are you? ;)

Did you ever come on here, as a member under the name of Logic, or one of his friends?that's funny :-P

Annie,This is the question that was originally posted: The bible is not "the Word" Why is the bible called, the "Word of God" or "God's Word"? Where in the bible does it say that scripture is the word of God?This is the sentiment I was referring to. It has been my experience that when one is apostasizing, the first thing they do is to discredit the word of God! This is why I asked the question....And know from reading the threads many will go off on rabbit trails....Thanks for posting, Annie.ginnyrose

beenblake It was asked earlier in this thread, and you ignored the question, so I will ask you again.. What is you faith association ??? Greg :-o

Blake, Thank you for stepping outside tradition, very few have tried and many have failed. To step outside the concept of verbal inspiration and inerrancy is to step outside orthodox Christianity. Traditions are good or bad depending upon their source. Paul passed traditions on to the church at Corinth; traditions that he had received from Christ. I am not traditional as regards modes of worship or service but some things have been placed into our hands and we will be held responsible for what we do with them.Notice the exquisite care of the wording of “and that from a child thou hast known the sacred letters, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation, through faith which [is] in Christ Jesus. Every scripture [is] divinely inspired, and profitable for teaching, for conviction, for correction, for instruction in righteousness;” (2Tim. 3:15-16, DRBY)Paul is careful NOT to say that the scriptures give salvation, but that they are able to make one 'wise' unto salvation. The salvation itself, is through faith in Christ Jesus. He goes on to say that every scrripture is 'god-breathed'. For a Jew writing to a Jew (Timothy's mother was a Jew) 'the scriptures' had specific content and limits. They were described in the threefold division of 'the law of Moses, the prophets, and the psalms'. This is not a reference to single books but to the threefold division of the Jew's hold writings.These scriptures were referred to by Christ as 'the word of God' (in answer to the original question) in “If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;” (John 10:35, KJVS) You may notice two signficant things from this verse. First that Jesus equated the 'word of God' with the 'scripture' and secondly that he regarded 'the scripture' (singular) as a single entity. The Bible is ultimately not many books but one book with many chapters. Here is anothe illustration of this fact: “For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.” (1Tim. 5:18, KJVS) This verse has the word 'scripture' in the singular but 'the scripture' which is next quoted is an amalgum of “Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn.” (Deut. 25:4, KJVS)and“And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.” (Luke 10:7, KJVS) There is no distinction here, the inspiration of Moses is of the same nature as the narrative of Luke; this is one scripture. This is why we must always interpret the Bible as One Book. It was the comment 'it is also written' that thwarted Satan's second temptation in the wilderness. Satan had quoted 'a verse' but Christ added another. Campbell Morgan used to say the truth always lies in 'it is also written'.So Paul and Christ before him received the entire Jewish corpus as 'God-breathed' scripture. Christ believed implicitly and explicitly in the verbal inspiration and inerrancy of scripture; so did Paul. Peter regarded Paul's epistles as having equal inspiration “And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.” (2Pet. 3:15-16, KJVS) 'the other scriptures' actually means the 'remaining scriptures'. A clear statement that Peter regarded Paul's letters as scripture.This belief in the verbal inspiration and inerrancy of the scriptures has been the 'traditional' stewardship of the Church down the ages. Any view less than this is 'sub-Christian'.

WoW! this thread is still going? has anyone figured out if the Bible is the Word yet? I sure wished I could wake up to some good old Philippians 4:8 type threads tells us to "think on the things that are true, honest, just, pure, lovely, of a good report, virtuous, and of praise." Father in the name of Jesus I know someone will come here today with a praise report we can all be lifted up by, Father I really thought as Christians and your children we were to lift up so I pray we will get to lifting, in Jesus name I pray Amen. :-)

Many still don't understand. The Lord has asked me to deliver this last message. The message the bible bears is infallible. The message was delivered by God through men. The Holy Spirit spoke unto prophets who in turn wrote the words down. God speaks through prophets today just as He did years ago. This is important. The Holy Spirit spoke through men. Men wrote the bible. The words belong to men. The message belongs to God. When God wrote the ten commandments, He did so Himself. His own finger wrote the very text. If God had written the bible Himself, it would be considered Holy. There would be one bible in one translation, and none of us could go near it because it would be Holy. It would be preserved throughout all of time in a single state. However, we know the bible has been translated in many different languages and written in many different versions. Every version of the bible God has preserved His message.(Although not everyone will accept this.) However, the wording is different in each. (As a side note: If you are not sure about which bible to use, ask Jesus. Who else should know? And just because He says to use one version, does not mean the others are less valid. Christ speaks to each person in accord to their needs. We all have different ways of worshipping the same God. We are different people. And if someone asks you which bible to use, say "this is the bible the Lord has directed me to use, but you should not trust me, I am human, you should pray about it and put your trust in Jesus. He is God." ) The bible has no authority apart from God. It is just a book. If the bible had authority, then we would have to accept one bible as the official bible. That is not true. There is no one true bible. Even the ancient greek texts by which today's bibles (including the KJV) are based upon copies. We do not have the original texts. We do not have the original letters written by Paul. We do not have the original books of the bible. There is no one true bible, and no matter how much people want to believe it, there is not. God made it this way intentionally, because He doesn't want people to base their faith on the bible. Faith, as Paul said, is based upon things unseen. Our faith is based upon Christ, the promise of God turned flesh. God has taken great care throughout history to preserve the message of the bible. This is true. However, as we all know, there are immense derivations between the different version. I can also show you passages where the bible itself conflicts. For instance:Matthew 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.Luke 24:4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments: When Mary and Mary went to the tomb of Christ, they were met by one Angel as it says in Matthew or two Angels as it says in Luke? Which was it, one angel or two? This small detail shows errancy in the bible. People try to justify it and say, "Well, it doesn't disagree. There were both one angel and two." The bible bears a message that is inerrant. The message about Jesus is not hindered by this small detail. It doesn't matter whether there was one angel or two. The testimony is still valid because the message is in agreement. It also important to note that neither Matthew or Luke was present at the tomb. Rather, it was two women Mary and Mary who found the tomb empty. God chose two women to testify first about His resurrection. (So much for the theory that "men always come first".)The message of the bible God has preserve in blood over history. Even still, this message has no power without the Holy Spirit. The message does not become alive until it is backed by the Holy Spirit. I can tell a man every day for eternity that Jesus died on the cross and was resurrected on the third day. However, until that man believes it, the message means nothing. And that man cannot believe the message, until the Holy Spirit comes down from Heaven and speaks to the man's heart. This cannot happen, until that man calls upon the name of Christ. If the bible has authority and power, all we would have to do is read it to a person, and they would instantly be saved. Rather, the bible is used for teaching. We use it to tell people about the message of God. We use it to teach them about the Word of God, about Jesus. Let me give you another illustration. Let us say that God sends a prophet to speak His message. This prophet goes forth and preaches the Word of God. He says everything God tells Him to say. The Holy Spirit fills this man, and Jesus gives Him the words to say. Now, this man is speaking the message and Word of God. However, should we call this man, "The Word of God." No, the man is not the Word, he is just speaking the Word. This man has no power or authority. He is merely a vessel for God to use.Likewise, the bible is a vessel of God's Word. We can say it is "the living Word of God" only because it is alive in us. When we are filled with the Holy Spirit, the Word is made alive. The Word is within us. It is inside. Only when the Word is inside of us does the bible have any life. When we are saved and filled with the Holy Spirit, the bible comes to life. We are drawn to it's words and they have power to convict us. This is not because the bible has authority and power. No. It is because the Spirit living inside of us, Christ in us, that has power and authority. You can read the bible to someone who does not have the Holy Spirit, and it will have no effect. In fact, it will confuse them. They will not understand the message it bears. However, when you read the bible to someone filled with the Holy Spirit, the bible has the power to draw their attention. Please do not mistake these words. I am not saying we should go out and follow our flesh. I am not saying we should discard the bible and it's teaching. I am not saying that the bible is faulty book. I am saying that we should not turn the bible into God. We should not elevate the text of the bible above Christ. We cannot read or understand the bible unless we have the Holy Spirit to guide us. Even when we are filled with the Holy Spirit, we still have free will. We can still deny the Holy Spirit. (If we couldn't, then Christians would never sin.) Thus, whenever we read the bible, we should first pray and ask Jesus to open our hearts and minds to what He is trying to say. The bible also speaks more than one single message. I have heard one person say, "This scripture said this to me" and another say, "Well, it said this to me." It was two totally different things. So who was right? They both were. There messages didn't conflict they were just telling the same thing from two different perspectives. You spoke of absolute truth in Christianity. Indeed, there is absolute truth. Jesus is the truth. He is the absolute. You must understand what this means. To say Jesus is the absolute truth is to say He is God. Only God, who is at the center of everything can be absolute. He is the only thing that doesn't change. He is constant. He is. Everything else, God created.This is important. Only God can be God. There is only one God. Only God can be absolute truth. There is no greater truth than God. Everything else, has been created by God. And as we know by looking around, God loves variety. He does not make replicas of anything. There are no two trees exactly alike. No two finger prints, exactly alike. No two snowflakes exactly alike. Rather, humanity in all it's corruption seeks for ways to make copies. God creates originals. Thus, Jesus is the only truth of the universe. There is nothing greater. There is no greater authority. Jesus is Lord. This is key: Jesus is Lord. Jesus is God's Word. He is the Word turned flesh. There is nothing greater than Jesus. Some people have given the bible more authority than Christ. They say the bible is absolute truth. That cannot be. You cannot have two truths. Is the bible truth or is Jesus truth? Which is it? The bible is just a book. Pick one up and tell me different. When you give the bible more authority than Christ, you are idolizing a book. You are worshipping a book. You are basing your faith on a book. How silly is that? I carried a bible around with me for many years and it did nothing for me. Then, I met Jesus and I was saved. Praise the Lord!!! After I was saved, the bible came alive to me. I read it from cover to cover. Why? Because Jesus made it alive. Jesus was inside me and so His Spirit gave power to the message inside. You also asked, "How can you be so sure of your spiritual hearing?" How can you be so sure of your salvation? How do you know you are saved? Is it because the bible says so? Or is it because Jesus saved you? God speaks to us in many ways, not just through the bible. A great challenge is learning how to recognize His voice. It is something we spend an entire lifetime learning. As Christians, we belong to Jesus. We should always seek after Him. Paul said he died daily. Every morning he sacrificed his life to Christ. Should we do any less? You must also understand this. It is true God is constant, true, absolute, and unchanging. He would not give conflicting or mixed messages. We don't know what all God has planned. We are just human beings. God has a plan that is greater than we can imagine. How should we ever know how He should choose to work. When God called Luther to protest against the Catholic church, it was in direct disobedience to the bible. The bible says we should submit unto authorities and government. (Romans 13:1) However, Luther disobeyed this command. The Spirit told him differently. What should we say about this then? Should we say that Luther was directed by the Devil or should we say the bible is wrong? It is neither. Christ is greater than the bible. Christ is greater than the law. When accused of breaking the sabbath, Jesus said He was greater than the Sabbath. As Christians, we are to follow Jesus. If Christ convicts your heart and calls you to a position that conflicts with popular teaching, if He asks you to do something and you do not, then you are sinning. People are afraid of this, however. They want the bible to be an absolute truth, an official standard, a book of laws. They are afraid because without a law, without an official bible, then how can they judge others? How can they label others false teachers? If the bible is not an authority, then how can they know who is right and who is wrong? Who do they trust? How do they get away with sin in darkness? You see, when you make the bible authoritative and official, then you turn it into an unbreakable law. You say, "The bible says this and it can be no other way." It is final. It is absolute. It is law. Then, you can sit and say, "Well, I can get away with this sin, because it's not in the bible. And I can treat women like lesser creatures, because it says men are better in the bible. If I follow all these commands, I will look good and righteous. I am a good person because I follow the bible. That person is a sinner because they don't follow the bible, and the bible say this. I have the power to judge others, because no one can defy the bible. It is law." This contradicts the whole message of the bible. This is exactly what the Pharisees did when Jesus came. They used the law to make themselves righteous, just like some people today are using the bible to make themselves righteous. The message of the bible centers around love and the heart. When people give into the Holy Spirit, they are filled with the fruit of the Spirit. When people truly follow Christ, they are never lead astray. Additionally, there is the issue of interpretation. The bible may be easily confused and misinterpreted. The message is perfect and infallible. However, the words may be confusing or difficult to understand. Before I was saved, I tried many times to read the bible. I could not make any sense of it. I have had a friend who is an English Literary Scholar tell me she could read and understand any old English text, but she could not make sense of the bible. When I was saved, though, reading the bible was easy. Why? Not because I suddenly became an expert. It was all because of the Holy Spirit. As you can see by this website, and many other books throughout the ages, the bible is discussed in great debate even among Christians. Even though we have the Holy Spirit, we still make errors. We still may misinterpret scripture. I have made mistakes in the past. Christ continually helps me grow. The most horrid state we can be in as Christians is to be so arrogant to think that we cannot be wrong. When this happens, we do not have a teachable Spirit. We have blocked off the Spirit and can no longer grow. Thus, it is ever so important to seek out Christ in everything we do. When we read the bible, we should pray and ask Jesus to guide us. When we are being challenged, we should pray and ask Christ to help us understand. We should always follow the Spirit first. And if it seems like there is a conflict, we should pray about it. Follow Jesus. I will follow the same counsel.Lastly, these words are my own, but the message above came from Christ. He asked me to speak this. I am not going to attempt to prove this to anyone. I will tell you straight up, do not trust me. I am a man. I am fallible. Trust in Jesus. Pray and ask Him about this message, especially if you feel the Spirit stirring inside of you. I am not going to be so bold as to say I am right or righteous. And I am definitely not better than anyone. I am going to say that I will continue to pray. Blake

Quote: "What is you faith association ???"I follow Jesus Christ only. He is my Lord and savoir.

beenblake wrote:Many still don't understand. The Lord has asked me to deliver this last message. BlakeWoW!!! Father that Prayer was answered fast! I guess if I prayed for all the starving folks on earth to be feed today could possibly come that fast?Well I will ask because it might Father, In the name of Jesus could you see that all the starving folks on this beautiful earth you created be feed today, and because you are such an abundant Father make that the best meal they have ever had in your son Jesus name I pray Amen.

Dear Ginnyrose,"Quote:....why are you asking this question? Are you trying to worm your away around something the Scriptures is asking you to do but do not want to do it?"I will be honest with you, although people will not believe it and they will judge and persecute me because of it. However, since you asked so sincerely, how can I not be generous in return?Jesus laid this whole thing on my heart. When He spoke to me about it, I did not believe at first, but I knew it in my heart to be true. And then, He asked me to post it on this website which I knew would not be well accepted. I told Him no at first. A few weeks passed. He pushed me and pushed me until I came down very sick. I was dizzy and felt as though I would pass out for two days. I could barely stand. So, I finally said, "Lord, I will write the question, but you must send someone else to deliver the first message." The message was delivered, and then the Lord prompted me to write the rest. So, I wrote as He directed. The irony of this is that once I stood on the other side of the debate. I once debated this with someone else. It is amazing how Christ moves. I will say the same thing I have said to everyone else: Do not trust me. Trust in Jesus. Do not believe me. Believe in Jesus. I am nothing. Christ is everything.May Christ direct all our paths.Blake

beenblake wrote:The Lord has asked me to deliver this last message. BlakeThat would be the one that is called the Lord Jesus Christ that told you that, you said you listen and follow him in your earlier posts are you becoming a rebel for Christ? :-P

. . . .I don't know who said it first but, I think it is a fitting quote. Thank you for the post Grannie, once again, your honesty and heart for the Lord is refreshing and heart smiting. "What then is our goal? To destroy those that honestly seek the truth? Or do we seek to destroy the truth so that no man seek it?" Sorry for the stones i cast, even in a humurous nature, a rock on the noggin' hurts. God's best ot you all.

When Mary and Mary went to the tomb of Christ, they were met by one Angel as it says in Matthew or two Angels as it says in Luke? Which was it, one angel or two? ??This small detail shows errancy in the bible. People try to justify it and say, "Well, it doesn't disagree. There were both one angel and two." This is not an attempt to 'justify'. You are starting from a position of distrust and unbelief consequently your instinct is to find a reason why these narratives disagree and thereby prove your thesis. The believer in verbal inspiration and inerrancy thinks otherwise. His thinking might go something like this...Luke was almost certainly aware of Matthew's gospel when he wrote his own narrative. He was a skilled historian who knew how to check his sources. And yet he apparently contradicted Matthew; was he stupid? Would he not know that if he contradicted Matthew people's confidence in his own narrative would be undermined? Why didn't he just trim it to fit Matthew's narrative? If I was fabricating a story I would have at least have had the sense to make sure it agreed with an eye-witness apostle. Was Luke the physician less intelligent than I am? What do I know of Luke's reputation in his writing? Is he usually painstaking in his detail? Luke 1:11 (KJVS) And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. Luke 6:6 (KJVS) And it came to pass also on another sabbath, that he entered into the synagogue and taught: and there was a man whose right hand was withered.Luke 22:50 (KJVS) And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear. Does this witness strike me as being reliable in the attention he gives to detail? or does he just 'wing it' and make up the details as he goes along. Is his approach generally approximate or scientific? Acts 3:7 (KJVS) And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength. Luke 5:12 (KJVS) And it came to pass, when he was in a certain city, behold a man full of leprosy: who seeing Jesus fell on his face, and besought him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. Everything about this man's witness marks him out as probably the best educated and most careful reporter of events in the NT. His testimony shows constant signs of the most precise attention to detail. Do you think he didn't notice that Matthew had only recorded the words of 'one angel'?The believer in verbal inspiration and inerrancy says 'everything I know about this witness checks out'. The burden of proof that he is lying or making it up must lie with those who chose to disbelieve him. It is not a case of me 'justifying' Luke; it is rather a case of you proving him an unreliable witness. If he is indeed an unreliable witness, of course, you will have to put both the Gospel and the Acts into the bin. This is ultimately a question of trust. I would rather trust Luke's testimony than my own reconstruction of events. The final question is where do I put my faith; in Luke's credibility as a witness or my own deductive powers? You have made your choice and I have made mine.

Quote: "The final question is where do I put my faith; in Luke's credibility as a witness or my own deductive powers? You have made your choice and I have made mine."I place my faith not in either Luke or myself, but in Jesus Christ. The fact that these verses do not agree does not hinder Luke or Matthew's witness. It merely shows that they are human. It proves that we cannot trust in men, but only in God. (As it should.)If only God is good, and only Jesus is perfect, then how can we expect the writers of the bible were perfect also? If you are claiming the bible is perfect, then you are saying the bible is a part of God (for only God is perfect). God includes three (father, son, Holy Spirit), and this does not include the bible. To say the bible is perfect is to say the bible is God. Do you not see? The Christian faith is based upon the belief in Christ. (John 3:16) We are saved by believing in Christ. This faith is supported and backed by the Holy Spirit. If someone believes in Jesus because the bible says so, then he has missed out on the whole salvation experience. For when we are saved, we know we are saved by the Holy Spirit that lives within us. Likewise, a person cannot base his faith or salvation on the bible for what kind of faith is that? Faith can only come from Christ who is Lord over all. Christ is the rock. He is the foundation by which no other can build. The bible is not the foundation. Christ is.When someone has a salvation experience, he no longer has to rely on the testimonies of Luke or Matthew, for he has a testimony of his own. He will say, "I have met Christ and this is my testimony." When this happens, the bible does not prove Christ to this person, for he knows Christ personally. He knows Christ because Christ came down from Heaven and washed away his sins making him into a new creation. This person is then born again.I hope this helps,In love,Blake

But your teaching is faulty to the core.Dear Krispy, All of my teachings, messages, and writings have one basis. It is this: Jesus Christ is Lord.What do you think of this teaching? Do you think it is faulty to the core?In love,Blake

KrispyKrittr wrote: It reminds me of when the Jehovah's Witnesses come around... you really have to be on your toes with them. My suggestion to believers when the JW's come around is to not even try to talk to them unless you really know what you're doing. Word games, semantics... all designed to cast doubt in a believer's heart.KrispyKrispy, I think personally that is good advise, I have a Jehovah's Witness church right in my neighborhood and I try to be nice and talk to them when they slide by but your right then they pull out their comic book and try to intimidate me only person that could ever intimidate me was #3 :-?

No one knows what we're talking about... lol... it's a redneck thangi do. those cars going round and round in circles, just like this post. :-P

inotof wrote:

No one knows what we're talking about... lol... it's a redneck thangi do. those cars going round and round in circles, just like this post. :-P

KrispyKrittr wrote:Hey Dave, eat your heart out, buddy. I got tickets to Bristol! Both tonight AND the big daddy tomorrow night!KrispyYea bring a change of clothes with the Busch drivers at that track "Lady in Black" and all the caution they will have you will probably be eating breakfast at the track especially if Robbie G. is in that race tonight.I don't know why they just don't paint those walls black :-P :-?

Dear Krispy, Why do you avoid the question? Let me ask it again, do you believe Jesus is Lord? Or do you think this statement is "faulty to the core?"In love,Blake

beenblake wrote:Dear Krispy, Why do you avoid the question? do you believe Jesus is Lord? In love,Blake Maybe I missed something here but what kind of a question is that? :-(

I am not playing word games. This is no game. This is what you have said of me thus far in this topic: "but thats certainly the intention of the one who is behind you're doctrines.""But your teaching is faulty to the core.""Some truth... much error.""I'm not sure where you got your twisted view of things""Then your message couldnt be from God because your posts are confusing, and the message is mixed.""but you are being hypocritical.""I will give you credit for the little bit of truth that was in your post. But thats how false teachings are... little bit of truth mixed with error." You declare my teachings are faulty and erred. I respect that you believe differently. However, you have done nothing to show that I am wrong. Do I not at least deserve an answer to this simple question? I teach that Jesus is Lord. Is this teaching wrong or not? Should I continue to teach that Jesus is Lord, or should I stop? Is Jesus Lord or is He not? Sincerely,Blake

Krispy,You say that my teachings are faulty. I teach that Jesus is Lord. Jesus is supreme. He is greater than the bible. He is greater than anything known or unknown. He is The Word of God turned flesh. Jesus is Lord.You have been so bold to say my teachings are faulty and erred. Do you believe my teachings are faulty and erred, or not? Blake

Hi blake..."Let me ask it again, do you believe Jesus is Lord?"Jesus is Lord! Philippians 2:5-11Scripture is inspired! 2 Timothy 3:16Jesus is the Word! John 1:1-5The Bible is not God, nor is it to be worshipped in any way. Exodus 20:4-6You can destroy a Bible, but you can never destroy the Word of God. "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall never pass away." Matthew 24:35Jesus is the inspiration for the written Word of God -- perfect in every way, even when the translations can be (and sometimes are) flawed. To my feeble mind, this seems quite clear. :-)