Was Kathryn Kuhlman even Saved?

Dear Brethren,Sorry for my straight question, but when I look at her ministtry, I doubt whether she was saved at all. Here's why: 1) Elevating the Holy Spirit above the Other Persons of the Trinity, knowing that the Bible says that "He (Holy Spirit) will glorify me(Jesus)" (Joh 16:14) is only one place that she falls into error. 2) Propagating the "slain in the Spirit" phenomena, that has absolutely no Biblical grounds.Then there are the healings she was known for. There are two sides to this. The one is that many that she claimed to heal in her meetings were found false after investigation.On the other hand there were also healings done, but with this background the question arises:"By whose power did she heal?" and "How did she know when someone was healed, as was her habit: to call out someone from among thousands of people and say "in row 16 someone is healed from cancer".These are just a few thoughts, but the Bible commands: "believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are from God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1)In the light of this evidence I am convinced that she knew not the Jesus of my Bible and she preached not the Gospel that Peter and Paul preached.May the Lord Himself teach us and give us ears to hear and minds to discern and hearts to seek Him for His own sake.In His love,Gery

Well, I'm the judge of no man, or woman in this case. However, I do know that David Wilkerson said that she was a godly woman, and spoke in many of her crusades.

Kathran Kuhlman was from a little town down the road a bit from my city called Concordia. Her father was killed when she was a girl- run over by a car as I recall and from there on she began persuing God. I have read many books about her life. All that I know of. it seems to me that she really loved God. She had strange ways though. Far be it from me to condone them. From what I read she had a deep intimacy with God. She got into some bad relationships that were sinful and eventually got out of them. She married a man who left his wife. She had to end that. Its a long story. But after he was gone she just (as I understand those who wrote about her) wanted God to be her husband. She found in Christ the fellowship that would replace the man she loved and lost. This deep intimacy with God was at the foundation of what would come of these things. From this came the concept that a person could sit in the presence of God and that that presence could become tangible. It may not have started with her- but it would certainly be proliferated and eventually produce some of Benny Hinn's teachings. You may have heard him say, "THERE GOES THE ANOINTING..." These concepts, as I understand them, are rooted in the belief that an intense prayer life brings a tangable presence of God. When I used to follow these things in the early 90's I recall Tozer being quoted a lot. It really comes down to a hybred form of Christian Mysticism. I went to a meeting in New Orleans in 1993 and sat by a Catholic Charismatic New Ager. Whoa! I thought- boy, people can really get messed up. Hence was born a modern "experience based" Christianity. People look for an "experience" or "manifestation" of the Holy Spirit. The door flys open to laughter, drunk in the Spirit, etc. etc. When the emphasis comes of of the New Birth everything goes crazy. When men are not expected to repent. When folk are not expected to yield the fruit of the Spirit unto holiness. When spirituality is measured by who falls when you lay on hands. Things get out of whack.Are they sincere? Probably. Do they think they are doing God a service? Probably? Has God used them. Yes. Do we follow everything they did? Definitely not.

Are they sincere? Probably. Do they think they are doing God a service? Probably? Has God used them. Yes. Do we follow everything they did? Definitely not.What a wise man you are! :-D I never quite recovered from the "Daughter of Destiny" biography from sympathetic Jamie Buckingham. The concept of using 'slaying in the spirit' as a disciplinary tool to keep platform associates in line disturbed me deeply.

I never quite recovered from the "Daughter of Destiny" biography from sympathetic Jamie Buckingham. The concept of using 'slaying in the spirit' as a disciplinary tool to keep platform associates in line disturbed me deeply.Yes. She also seemed to believe that her father was saved although she was never quite sure if he was born again. My, how we come to terms with things. As a new Christian freshly filled with the Spirit I was attracted to the 'power' and manifestations that were said to have taken place. I would hear stories and really go after it. WOW, "you mean people fell out in the Spirit as she walked through the kitchen the power of God was so strong on her?" I would think, "I want to be just like that!" It reminds me of my uncles telling stories about their youth and their sensational adventures. We would look at them as kids all attentively. WOW, "you mean your car would pop-wheel-ees?" I want a car like that when I grow up. Now I'm content to just get where I'm going. Nothing fancy- just functional. And so it is with these things- they come off as fancy- but are they functional? Not in a pragmatic sense- but in terms of the right presentation of the objectives of the Holy Spirit in the earth. I could care less about popping wheel-ees, is anyone being born again?

It seems that not much has changed on this forum. I love and bless each and everyone of you as my brothers and sisters in the Lord but I can honestly say that I feel sorry for you. To judge a work that has yielded incredible fruits simply because of you deem as extremes which followed? Come on! Isn't this going clearly against Johnathon Edwards treatise on how to judge a move of God? (i.e. that it is not to be judged by the manifestation that accompany it) Not that I am using Edwards as scripture but many of you dear brothers and sisters would quickly misquote him as evidence AGAINST other moves of the Spirit. As for the "slain in the Spirit" phenomena . . . why even bother arguing. Search the scriptures without a bias and you will quickly see that bodily reactions to God's presence are nothing strange or abnormal - certainly their were no "catchers" or "towel girls" in apolostolic times, or terms such as "slain in the Spirit" - but the phenomena more than likely happened with regularity. Look at the history of Revival which you all praise - Hebrides, Wales, Cane Ridge, 1 and 2 Great Awakenings - physical prostrations were common in all of them. And NO they were not all the results of extreme conviction - Wesleys journals record prostrations that included esoteric laughter and joy - Edwards speeks of prostrations caused by a foretaste of judgement, and then other caused by a foretaste of HEAVEN. If we would stop majoring on minors we could get a whole lot more done for the kingdom. As for emphasizing the Holy Spirit - read the life of Evan Roberts and study the 1904 Welsh Revival and you will see that the Holy Spirit was exalted and praised. One of Roberts 4 requirements for heaven sent revival was an acknowledgment of the Holy Spirit as God - (among other things). And many in his day criticized him for this - however their names are mostly forgotten and their criticisms silenced, history proved the reality of what God did!My point judging a man, woman, or ministry simply by physical manifestations that accompany their ministry or by one or two doctrinal differences (study Whitfield and Wesley and observe the sharp disagreements they had) is immature, shallow, and superficial. Judge by the fruit of her ministry - which I believe is good. I am not a Kathryn Kuhlman historian but I have definitely seen some of the good fruit produced from her life and ministry.I honestly don't expect this post to change the minds of those dead set on retaining their views. I have posted enough in the past that has gone unnoticed. I love and bless you but beg you to re examine your ways, and hearts. How will you ever receive the revival you pray so fervently for when it comes? What if strange phenomena accompany it (like it has in every major revival)? What will you do then? Will you be on this site criticizing it? I for one want to be right in the thick of it! I don't ever want to be one sitting on the shore shouting orders to those in the boats - I want to be right in the middle of what God is doing!Please attempt to hear my heart in this!Burning,Jeff

I could not have asked for a better illustration of my point. A one sentece answer with no backing but a bias - I'm sorry. If you can prove it to me from scripture than wonderful. If all you have to offer is an unbiblical cessationist or border line cessationist bias and a concensus orthodoxy than I'm sorry but that just isn't good enough. Listen I'm trying to reason with you - but no one seems to be open to that here. My posts are generally answered with a pridefully poetic "I am a watchman on the wall, Purify the Temple!" type of answer - I'm sorry but that just doesn't work. People who are out doing the work of the ministry and laboring, seeking the Lord with all of their heart, white hot burning with passion who have criticisms-that's one thing. But swivel chair critics who thumb through their KJV, and concordance from behind a computer - people with slick religious sounding answers - well they just bug me. Why? Because I used to be one! My dead brothers and sisters I ask you honestly to forgive my sarcasm, and please hear my heart. The scripture does warn us to not believe every Spirit - but this indicates that there is a Spirit we should believe. My fear is that most people are too afraid of receiving or believing a false Spirit that they reject the true. I'm not afraid of receiving a false spirit. I am a son, not an orphan. When I ask my Father for the Holy Spirit, there is not some super demon in the heavens who snatches up my prayers and sends down a counterfeit. I am not a prosperity preaching, purpose-driven, kind of guy - I abhor those things. I am simpy giving you a clear warning to be careful how you judge the things of God. If you were to use the exact same criteria of judging ministries on the life of Jesus he to would come up as a false prophet - if you're honest with yourselves (theres a novel idea) you know this is true. Burning,Jeff

While asking you to forgive my sarcasm I refered to you as my "dead brothers and sisters". I'm sorry it was supposed to read "My dear brothers and sisters". That makes a world of difference! SORRY! I know you're not dead - my mistake!Burning,Jeff

Hi Jeff,I am a classical pentecostal, I just have a pressing emphasis on the new birth. I have seen all the other stuff and have watched the people remain unchanged in most cases. I have seen things that would scare most people. Yet, were they changed? On a more tolerant side I used to say, "I don't care if they go down in the gifts as long as they get up in the fruits." Surely there will be excesses everywhere. We need to keep our focus on new birth and infilling of the Spirit (to some that is one and the same) ;-)God Bless,-Robert

Krispy,I do not want you to get the wrong impression from me. I have been doing as our brother Neil suggested and protesting with silence - yet every now and then I allow my "self" to get the better of me. I am sure that I spoke to critically and harshly. If I did I apologize to you. I did not in anyway mean to assume I know your heart and make a blanket judgment concerning you. Yet it seems that is what many on this site do on a regular basis! For instance a few months back there was a post entitled "False Prophets Reprinting America is to young to Die". I soon found the "False Prophet" being referred to was a dear friend and former professor of mine named Dr. Larry Martin. The poster knew nothing of Dr. Martin personally, I do. In fact he is one of the most humbles, passionate, and prayerful men of God I know. Yet our shoot from the hip criticisms place a cultic stigma on an individual who is in fact an incredible blessing to the church. Do you see my frustration? I apologize for being to sharp with my tongue - thats something I have to be careful of and I blew it this time around. My only fear is we could completely miss what God is doing - or learning from what He has done, be demonizing the leaders of these movements. I am fully aware that there are counterfeits out there - yet a counterfeit only proves that there is a real. I would not reject a real 100 dollar bill simply because there are counterfeits out there. Rather I would look at the tell-tale signs to see wether mine was genuine. This is all I'm asking - that we look at the tell-tale signs, what Jesus called "fruit". Let us not look at flamboyant personalities, manifestations, or the like and make snap judgements - rather lets check the fruit. Yes this individual may have had some strange mannerisms, and perhaps some excesses - yet did the people closest to them see the fruit of the Spirit in their lives? Did their ministries produce long lasting fruit? Even the fact that some who were healed ended up dying doesn't prove that nothing happened! Jesus himself said, "Repent lest a worse thing come upon you." Lets just say the one to whom He gave that commandment did not repent and in fact became more sick - would that discredit Jesus' ministry? Certainly not! What would we say if Miss Kuhlman were to have prayed for the blind by making mud using here own saliva? We would deem such behavior as cultic. What if she made ministry decisions by rolling dice - we would find some cultic nuances to this as well. Yet these things are all completely Biblical. (I'm not encouraging their use, only saying that the Bible is filled with things that appear "weird" to us.) Leonard Ravenhill spoke well of Miss Kuhlman and even traveled with the "likes" of William Branham. David Wilkerson did rallies with Miss Kuhlman - these are men that we highly respect. Obviosly they saw while she was living that she was a Godly woman.As previosly stated my concern is simply that we will miss what God is doing or miss learning from what He has done simply because we are afraid of excesses and human vessels. Personally I fear lack more than excess. If it would be profitable (and if it would generate Godly, fair, discussion) I will start a thread dealing with strange phenomena that accompanied past revivals which we all hail as being "from God". Perhaps it would help us to see that "there is nothing new under the sun." Would this be a good or bad idea?I pray the Lords blessing on you, I apologize for shooting my mouth off and losing my temper . . .your brother,Jeff

Dear Brethren,This has really become a heated discussion. Do you realize that I had an aim when I posted this thread? Paul THOUGHT he was doing God a favour when he persecuted the church, but instead he was working against everything God was doing. He was a persecutor. Now, what changed Paul? What made him not only to stop what he was doing previously, but changed him into a vessel that God could use. Nothing short of a meeting with the living God. Who in turn made Paul to be a new creature. My question is: Was Kathryn Kuhlman ever really changed by God? Was she ever born again? Not who approved her or was influenced by her. Not if she was brought up in a Christian home. If a prophet/tess testifies falsely on ONE instance, he/she is a false prophet. What did she do to God's name if she prophesied falsely? Did God bring souls to repentance? Dont forget that God is in the saving business, not in the healing business. Jesus died to save sinners, not to heal the sick. He healed the sick before His death. Have you ever thought why there are so much worldliness in the churches today? Why people play with sin? Because they've gotten used to the wrong gospel! Narrow is the way that leads to life and broad the way that leads to damnation. In conclusion, May we put aside our opinions and preferences and even what our consciences and feelings allow us and let us "get dead serious with God", as Corrie ten Boom said once. Oh Lord send us true revival, show us Thyself!In His love,Gery

2) Propagating the "slain in the Spirit" phenomena, that has absolutely no Biblical grounds.John 18:1-7 When Jesus had spoken these words, he went forth with his disciples over the brook Cedron, where was a garden, into the which he entered, and his disciples. And Judas also, which betrayed him, knew the place: for Jesus ofttimes resorted thither with his disciples. Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons. Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye? They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground. Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth.

Are they sincere? Probably. Do they think they are doing God a service? Probably? Has God used them. Yes. Do we follow everything they did? Definitely not. Hi brother Robert,I really appreciate the spirit with which you speak.But in agreeing with what I quote of you, above ... with all of it being perhaps true, are we to give a stamp of approval on such "ministry", nevertheless ?How do we know if she truly " was in love with the Lord" ( as her 'husband', etc ) ?Just by reading that in some biography, undoubtedly slanted by her admirers ?a deep intimacy with the Lord ?how do we know that ?Of course such words would be proferred by folks out there, David Wilkerson included - but who's he ? Just a man.There seems to be an utter "dis-juncture" between on the one hand lauding her intimacy with our Lord .... and then on the other saying - " well, things worked out kinda strangely, in the outward-life .. "Could it be that her "marriage" was to her name, and to her ministry - rather than to the Lord ?I just offer that as a possibility - the Lord knows if that's the case or not - I offer it as a possibility - knowing some will post "how dare you offer that ! about such a Giant .... "Would the fact that some would become very offended, undoubtedly .... point perhaps to the whole "movement" she kind of got the ball rolling on - a movement of Man-following - centered around her ? ( which the Lord somehow was able to work Himself into )You're evidently a man of discernment, as seen in some of your postings, Brother, but are you maybe seeking justifications for something that you know deep down "smells" of something not Heavenly ?I get a total sense of back and forth, in your words, though I do appreciate the spirit of them. I think you ought come 'off the fence', so to speak .. in one direction or the other.baruch

Hi Baruch,How do we know if she truly " was in love with the Lord" ( as her 'husband', etc ) ?Just by reading that in some biography, undoubtedly slanted by her admirers ?a deep intimacy with the Lord ?how do we know that ?These questions are my own perceptions. I base them on not just biographies but old videos of worship services that I have seen. I am ascribing no authority to my perceptions. Since none of us here likely really knew her, either way, we can only go on the evidence. Generally speaking I think she really loved God. There seems to be an utter "dis-juncture" between on the one hand lauding her intimacy with our Lord .... and then on the other saying - " well, things worked out kinda strangely, in the outward-life .. "I would not agree here, but I understand where you are coming from. Some of the godliest women I ever knew had things about them that would strike me as 'odd'. Yet when I was in their presence my spirit bore witness with them and I discerned the Lord working in them. There is a fine line between unorthodox and heresy. Could it be that her "marriage" was to her name, and to her ministry - rather than to the Lord ?I could make no such judgment about her. I have no idea and am in no position to make such a judgment. God will someday bring to light the hidden counsels of the hearts. In that day I believe we will find that a lot of men and women that we thought had it all together- may well come up short and some we thought were out of bounds may withstand the fire. I am only left to discern whether what she taught was truth or error and that on a line upon line basis. I just offer that as a possibility - the Lord knows if that's the case or not - I offer it as a possibility - knowing some will post "how dare you offer that ! about such a Giant .... "No need to be defensive. Personally I can take or leave any minister. I prefer some and believe they speak truth, but I have no alliegences to defend. I have seen to many people fall to trust in any but Christ. Would the fact that some would become very offended, undoubtedly .... point perhaps to the whole "movement" she kind of got the ball rolling on - a movement of Man-following - centered around her ? ( which the Lord somehow was able to work Himself into )Could be, but again I can't say. I try to generally give folks the benefit of the doubt until I know otherwise. You're evidently a man of discernment, as seen in some of your postings, Brother, but are you maybe seeking justifications for something that you know deep down "smells" of something not Heavenly ?I am not seeking to justify anything or anyone. There are many people in the faith that have done things that I did not agree with, but yet I still believed there was somewhat to be gleaned from them. Jean Calvin and his burning of Michael Servetus comes to mind. Luther and his tractate against the Jews before he died, "On the Jews and Their Lies." I could go on. I get a total sense of back and forth, in your words, though I do appreciate the spirit of them. I think you ought come 'off the fence', so to speak .. in one direction or the otherThings are not that cut and dry. If I took that approach then I would cut everyone I ever heard speak off from my life. Because we do not all agree on things. When a person gets 'so far' I simply withdraw from them and no longer allow their influence. I do not fight against them generally. Even though my background as a bible teacher is rooted in apologetics I do not take fail swoops like that. Eating watermelon requires that one spit out the seeds. Rat Poison is 90% good corn its the 10% strict nine that makes it deadly. These are little cliches' I use from time to time. Some things I simply abstain from. Yet, I believe the biggest danger to Christendom is a Christianity without the New Birth. Motivational speakers posing as preachers, etc. Praying a one sentence prayer and then "welcome to the family." The discernment ministries such as CRI give many of these men and their methods a green light. That, I can never understand. My focus is on the New Birth and victory over sin. That is my focus. Getting preachers and ministers and Christians off porn and internet gambling so they will have an unction. These are the things that are important to me. God Bless,-Robert

Have you ever listened to what the Lady had to say about Jesus? No more vinegar.7t

On this particular thread, like on many before it, there has been a lot of debate about weather or not we can judge a person.It's a tough spot to be in, judging the trueness of a person. But it's an extremely important thing, also.Paul was very stern on discernment, and I am, also. Now, it was said that even though the outward life may appear strange, you can't judge the inward. I don't believe this to be true. Saying that a person a differing opinion, and differing doctrines, about what the Bible says is often a polite way of saying that that person has formed a mold that they put God into.Now, things like this movement in which people fall down when they come too close to such a "holy" person makes me very suspicious. I do believe that a person can be moved by the Holy Spirit in profound ways- listen to Duncan Cambell sometime. I do not, however, believe that literal gifts, such as many denominations prey on, are a sign of holiness. Now, being honest, I know very little of the person who we are talking about in this thread. But the fact that people might be willing to overlook biblical issues- women in leadership, etc. to say that a person was "just religious in a differnt way" is amazing.I understand that I, nor any other man, knows everything there is to know, but I do believe that the Bible is very clear, and inerrant in what it says. I am not willing to test the Lord to create a new definition of Christianity.To those who persist in keeping with what is right in the eyes of the Lord,Grace and Peace...

My thought is that if God moves over you so powerfully that He knocks you off your feet, whether forward or backwards, you will be changed. I've seen so many people "fall out" and then just go watch a movie like nothing happened. Come on... if God moves on a person like that they would be changed forevermore and not take it like you would a grain of salt. But if its just an emotional thing.. you could just go on like nothing happened.

I've seen so many people "fall out" and then just go watch a movie like nothing happened.I agree with you PreachParsly.

Yeah, unfortunately, you have to ask if they know God/met God, or if they're just trying to impress somebody. Ya know, I've been there though- wanting to impress my peers/people I look up to in the Church. No, I'm not proud of it- wanting to serve what doesn't matter, to impress people in this life. But I know I've done it at times. Unfortunately, that kind of things seems to be a popular way to be. Another guile to detract from the witness of the Truth.I'm probably babbling again, but hopefull you can see through it. We can let it be known that there are false salvations, and many don't realize it. Just look at so many of the "christian cults" and such.It must be getting late- time for me to go to bed.Grace adn Peace...

Bro. Gery:My neighbor who just months ago went to be with the Lord was one of the pastors who traveled with Kulman and "pop Humbard" through the early years during the ole' tent revivals that used to sweep the nation. Boy the stories he told! Anyway, he used to tell me that he can't ever rember not seeing her in prayer. I think we get on dangerous territory when we decide to become critical of anothers servant. Disagree with her doctrine if you will but attacking thier character and even thier salvation? I wouldn't want to stand close to you for fear that the earth might open up.

Ok now I've had some time to read through all the posts. The opening question was "was she saved"? From there everyone went in to "slayed in the spirit", is it of God?My late neighbor Bob L. spent all his early years, up till the early 70's as one of the many ministers who traveled with Miss Kuhlman. Along with "Pop Humbard". I won't get into all the history. I do know people who got saved at her meetings as well as some who were terminally ill and were healed.Was she saved? Personally I believe so. Bob used to say she was always praying and that you couldn't have a regular conversation with her because she never turned her attention away from an attitude of prayer being lifted up to the Lord. I supose if we ---any of us would decide to spend 8 hrs a day in prayer and intercession, we might see some things too. :-) Slayed in the spirit. I always wondered what the things were that John didn't write in his gospel of Jesus Christ, he mentions it twice. On one occassion Jesus' mother and brothers were "without" desiring to take him because they said he was beside himself, I wonder what that scene looked like. If I was a scribe or phar. I could probably handle a random healing here and there, so what was it about the healing ministry that made them so mad? I wonder what it was they saw, and why did it bother these teachers of the law(word)? As I've gotten older I've become very slow to speak and even slower to point the finger.In any movement you will have fakes. Alot of stories here. But the fact that there's fake experiences like slayings only proves that there is the real thing also. And these signs shall follow them that believe.......I wonder how the early disciples heard that?

I have to confess I was not inquisitive in the past decades concerning many of the "heros" or so-called "Generals" of the faith. I simply took it at face value and the word (testimony) of many of the televised preachers of our day. I was just a kid. approx. 1972, when my family visited a Kathryn K. crusade, and I cannot remember a thing. My family also said that it wasnt very rememorable. After all these years later I wanted to know was she real, trustworthy, or the inspiration for Benny Hinn, who claimed to have soaked upon her grave and received "The annointing". Since necromancy's Leviticus 19:31 is forbidden its questionalble for them both.
To question as to what spirits occupied Benny Hinns Crusades, or even possibly Kathryn K's crusades is just search for truth.
People have uncovered a great deal of hidden facts concerning Kathryn K. life and ministry. Such as the affair, breaking up a family with a so-called profit preacher, and the subsequent divorce which Kathryn would later deny to a news reporter. Benny Hinn witnessed her speaking of; "Dont take him from me, He's all I've got", which was assumed that she spoke of the Holy Spirit by Benny Hinn? Now it may very well be familiar spirits or a spirit guide, (demon) As I say I wasnt very inquisitive and it makes mad at myself these yeasrs later for somehow "not knowing".

Yahweh always gets his way

That's a common misconception.

The Lord gives people free will and if they use thast to turn away from the Lord... thbat shows the Lord is not getting what He wanted since it was not His will for them to turn away

The Word of God is full of examples of situations in which the Lord did not get what He wanted causing Him to bring forth judgement.

In the end of course He will work things out unto His will, but hell will have to expand to accommodate all the lost souls entering in

The Word says the gifts and callings of God are without repentance, so He must allow people to be allowed to exercise their fee will, and this is why hell had to expand unfortunately

In scripture... those that fall back are those that are enemies of the Lord - those that were right with the Lord always fell forward on their face in worship to the Lord, they never fell backwards.

We have zero scriptural evidence that so called slain in the spirit in modern times is by the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ, so what we see in the churches today is some other spirit, one that is not from the Jesus of the Bible.

That fake jesus (angel of light) is the one seeking to get people into experiential theology (going by their feelings, not by the faith of Jesus Christ)

Kathryn Kuhlman was most likely not saved as she did things ion her life that were sinful and she wasn't one to preach repentance so she was most likely a proponent of OSAS causing her to never ask for forgiveness and turn away from sin.

Plus, she was NOT called to public ministry by the Lord Jesus as He has never called any woman to lead a public ministry like this in old or new testament.

Sure, He has and does use women in supporting roles and in ministries that teach other women and/or children, but not to lead a public ministry as this does not meet the qualifications the Lord gives in His Word to be a chuch leader, teacher / pastor.