Has anyone heard about this prophecy?

Has anyone heard about this?http://www.kimclement.com/words/2005/July222005.htm

It doesn't feel right. I think that's all I can say.

Filed under Deuteronomy 13

Hi Greg...!I agree. Kim Clement has come under fire by evangelical organizations for sometimes posting supposed "prophecies" after they were fulfilled (but dated beforehand). For instance, he posted a prophecy about the 2004 election the day after the election results were final! He has also made "prophecies" stating that "no Americans would be killed during the Iraq war," and that a cure for AIDS would be found by 2002. I am not saying that Kim Clement is not a Christian. But he doesn't meet the Biblical standard for a real prophet (as mentioned in an earlier post in this thread). Kim Clement may even be sincere -- believing that he truly speaks for God. But I would definitely look further into Kim Clement's "prophecies" before taking any of them to heart. :-)

Kim Clement is a false propeht. I used to follow him, and tested some of his predictions that he made would happen by certain date... that never ever did. Most specificially, I remember how he predicted that the Christmas of I believe it was 2004 would be the most noteably "best" Christmas ever, and yet it was quite normal by all accounts. There were other things too. He's simply another dime-a-dozen personal prophecy guy that's in it for the money, folks like LarsW used to warn us so much about.

I personally wanted to let everyone know here that when I posted that link, I know nothing of Kim Clement, that link was sent to me from a christian friend from my Bible Study group.

Hi YeshuaIsMyGD...!You're correct that these men who acts as "prophets" may be sincere in what they say and do. However, these men are not quoting themselves or other men when they speak. They are supposedly quoting God word-for-word. When they quote God so often, and yet nothing that they say comes to pass, then it is quite likely that they are not speaking for God."The prophet which prophesieth of peace, when the word of the prophet shall come to pass, then shall the prophet be known, that the LORD hath truly sent him." Jeremiah 28:9Many of these men have predicted things -- and those things never come to pass. But they don't tell their listeners, "Well, I meant well, but I seemed to have missed it." On the contrary, in order to keep up the "respect" for their ministries, they neglect to mention that they are just men who often miss the mark. They continue to speak for God, and hope for men to place their faith into their words. They are not like Samuel, where "none of his words fell to the ground." There have been several studies into the words of some well-known supposed "prophets" (like Benny Hinn and Kim Clement). Their words are so precise sometimes, yet so wrong. Much of what they say is stated and never remembered again. And again, much of what they "prophesy" is about "good things" that are supposed to happen -- but never come to pass. They sometimes almost seem like "fortune tellers" rather than prophets as recorded in the Scriptures.Does God still speak to and through men? Yes -- but not necessarily in the way that the modern charismatic movement displays. I remember listening to a testimony about David Wilkerson's first year back in New York (1987), where he warned his congregation about something that he felt during prayer concerning Wall Street. He asked some of his congregation to go with him to Wall Street the next day. That day, the stock market plunged into what became known as "Black Monday." And David Wilkerson and many of his congregation were there.I'm not even totally certain to the accuracy of this report, but at least such a story is plausible. David Wilkerson did write a book in the late 1960s or early 1970s that is surprisingly accurate (called The Vision). I only read through the book perhaps a year after coming to Christ, but so much of it sounded like it had come to pass. But I have never heard a specific prophesy from some of these other men come to pass. And that is the "litmus test" for their words. :-)

A prophet should continually act under direct guidance from God so that nobody could ever deceive him and that no mistakes could ever be made. However, there is no Biblical basis for such a belief. Prophets are mortal men who have been ordained and chosen by God to be a mouthpiece for revelation and guidance, but that revelation only comes when God wills it, making it somewhat sporadic in both ancient and modern times. There is no expectation that every act, every decision, and every purchase by a prophet will be divinely and infallibly guided. As Joseph Smith said, "a prophet is only a prophet when acting as such." Critics of the Church say this is a cop out, but it is true and Biblical. The Bible gives examples of prophets and apostles who were mortal and fallible, with obvious mistakes having been made by Jonah (shirking his duty), Moses (not circumcising his son), and Peter (denying Christ three times). But can real prophets be fooled by deceivers? Certainly. Joshua was fooled by the men of Gibeon, who came in disguise as if from a distant country when they were locals who normally would have been treated as enemies. In that story, given in Joshua 9:3Ð27, Joshua was deceived. He was a prophet, but he fell for the trick of the Gibeonites.

Hi MrBillPro and YeshuaIsMyGD...!I agree with you both -- that we should always "test everything and hold onto the good" (I Thessalonians 5:21). All believers are prone to making mistakes. As with the examples that you listed, it is quite wonderful that the Lord allowed such mistakes by men of God to be written. It reminds us about the fallibility of all men, and the need to rely on God for all things. But the greatest problem with such modern men who are considered by some to be "prophets" (like Kim Clement and Benny Hinn) is that they often make false prophesies. Many Christian "watchmen" organizations have even listed scores of false prophesies that were uttered by these men and others (available through a simple Google search). When confronted about their words, these men have not apologized for "missing it." Typically, they ignore their own words, offering no accountability to men for what they have said. But of course, they will be held accountable to God for every word that they utter.I am not saying that such men are not sincere. They may honestly believe that they are speaking the words of God. But when so many of their words are proven false, it might be honorable for men to say, "Pray about what I say." And it is definitely wise for all believers to "test" or "prove" what is said by any supposed "prophets." :-)

Chris wrote:Quote - Chris:“But when so many of their words are proven false, it might be honorable for men to say, "Pray about what I say." And it is definitely wise for all believers to "test" or "prove" what is said by any supposed ‘prophets.’“I agree with this suggestion from Chris and practice this myself. I recently wrote a thread called WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! BLOODY HANDS! If you go back to the original post you will find that I gave the Scriptures and what I felt the Lord was speaking to me through these Scriptures. After that, I posed the following questions with a call to pray over the answers and then a call for repentance. Quote - Christisking:“Please ask yourself the following question with honesty and pray that God will lay upon your heart the truth to these questions.What have I done to reach out to these poor souls who are under this terrible “ear tickling” deception and stand up against the “ear ticklers” who are leading them down the wide path to destruction?What more could I have done or be doing to reach out to these poor souls who are under this terrible “ear tickling” deception and stand up against the “ear ticklers” who are leading them down the wide path to destruction?What more could I possibly do to sound the trumpet and ring the alarm?Will my hands be spotless and clear of the blood of these poor deceived souls in my city or town on the day of judgment?I pray that the Holy Spirit will drive the knife of conviction deep into the heart of those who read this and have ears that hear and eyes that see.”This is a method of relaying a message that you will find I use often. Not every message is for everybody - it may only be for one or two or it may be for everyone who reads it - I don‘t know. This is a way you can stand firm and bold on the words of God and the message you feel He is giving you, but at the same time let the Holy Spirit do the work and be the one who is dogmatic.No one is right 100% of the time. We must be bold and sure but also careful when given a message we feel the Lord has spoken to us. You can not pull the Holy Spirit out of the equation. The Holy Spirit will reach those He wishes to reach. We always need to keep the Holy Spirit and His work the central theme.

KrispyKrittr wrote:

No one is right 100% of the time. My Mother-In-Law will tell you she is also heard her say this many times. :-?

As best as I have had experience with prophecy (in the form of predictive events) it has always had purpose and always been overly accurate or not so. Prophecy is accurate beyond measure, and anyone who is a prophet should know (yea, I am making a very strong and fast statement here) what that prophecy is. Prophecy is never, ever wrong, and if the prophet is not sure, no words should be spoken. I wonder how much Jeremiah was told that never left his mouth?I don't quite understand how we can "practice" prophecy. I have been in a place where this is... commonplace. But they also believe that prophecy is mostly feelgood uppers. That may be true, but I have a hard time buying into it (to this day, and I respect many of these men and women.)But how can you practice the word of God? Its either there or its not, and an unsureness of the word is a pretty decent clue that more digging needs to be done.But aside from all this, the one thing that I think really bugged me about this prophecy was the use of the phrase "servant Moses." Moses is dead. Figures are great, but why a very specific prophecy with vague inferences?

Hey YeshuaIsMyGd,Thanks for taking the time to reply - I do understand what you're trying to say. But I think my inferrence was slightly lost.Yes, if we really persist, God will give us the ability to participate more heavily in our desires - and this is a really cool trait of God (to let us focus ourselves). But I don't always quite capture if it is really what God wants. Like Elijah and Elisha. Was Elisha really a necessary prophet and miracle worker? He did marvelous things, and performed twice as many miracles as Elijah did. But who is mentioned in the New Testament? Elias, Elijah. Elijah prayed for someone to take up his ministry, and God allowed it. This is mainly about my thinking to explain why I am not into attempting prophecy. Much like Krispy's experience (except less dramatic and formal), this was a major push where I have been.I really thought that this was something God wanted everywhere - propheciers to bring out His voice, and it seemed mainly about encouragement and helping His children's self-esteem. And then I met a dreamer. It is quite unique, meeting a prophet (as such.) She is now just 20, and yet she could pin her prophetic dreams. It is interesting how her dreams affected us. She pinned the time of conception for a couple in our midst who was having a hard time bearing children. This prophecy was not about self-esteem, but was quite literally God's word through her. Its effects were immense. I think this one small voice with quiet asperations and a sureness of effect forever disillusioned me.There was no practice, sir. There was no effort to better control her gift by asking God to... throw it at her. But He gave it to her, and she was quite aware of it.How can we practice God's word? How can we stand up and say "I think this is what God is trying to say?" turn around, and use a very concentrated "the LORD saith" style delivery? It is God's word, much like numbers on a paper. We can then deliver it or not. And as such, it seems to me that a prophet often finds himself receiving information he has not been permissed to share.I still wonder - how much was Jeremiah told that never left his lips?

So that everyone knows. Isaiah made a false prophesy. I'll look it up later. If i cant find it by 24 hours, ill retract my statement. But i DID read it and it was FALSE. So this is how it works. Our prophets can't rise to the biblical standard, so they lower the bible to their experience. This is the stop where I get off of the unity train. Have a nice trip.MC

It just happens as you follow God and when some 'word' comes out, after a while more come and you understand that 'oh, those are GOD's Words and not mine'.Dear brother, I appreciate your sincerity. I even relate to the experience you are describing somewhat...However, I doubt that Isaiah ever had a word from God just come out and then say, "Oh".Surely anyone who witnessed angels covering themselves in the presence of a "holy, holy, holy" God was very aware of the situation he was in. The problem is that some of our prohets need some coal to touch their lips as well, before they say "Thus sayeth the Lord."Why can't people be content in the honor of sharing the character and heart of God...why does everyone want to speak for Him?MC

YeshuaIsMyGd,This is interesting. So now a dream needs to be interpreted in order to be understood. I'm sure Joseph would agree with you. *Edit* - The impact of this statement was based upon the institution of learning, it wasn't meant entirely cynically. It does sound a bit Freudian.*If I were to train my muscles in Israel, I should be stoned. God's exacting justice did not stop with the presence of Jesus Christ. He is the Alpha and Omega - (not just) a "giant" Father "in the sky." He is swift and sure as well as forgiving and merciful. Jonah was swallowed by a whale not because he disobeyed God, but because God wanted the prophet to do exactly what He had ordered Jonah. Jesus Christ himself took the time and fashioned a whip to clear the temple. He harrased the pharisees and ridiculed the saducees. He insulted gentiles and Samaritans. He called a woman a dog - to her face, in front of a large crowd. Coincidentally, both of these individuals had no doubt about what God wanted them to do, there was no wavering in their understanding of His word for them to carry.God is not merely kind and loving. He is foremost loving, which comes with more than just a price tag of happiness.And sir, there is one whale of a difference between speaking with a bit of the heart of God and the Word of God. It would be very gracious of you not to confuse the two.

YIMG,Thanks for the honesty and bless you for giving the matter further consideration! As far as the feedback you requested on these links... this fellow is practicing some sleight of hand to use Ninevah's repentance, or the Lord extending Hezekiah's life, as examples of failed bible prophesy.:roll: Have a great weekend!MC

Gone With the WaterTake note of the date in the upper right corner.

That's a man centered prophesy. It really doesn't exalt the Lord Jesus at all. The Holy Spirit's job was to exualt Christ, not Christ's servants.To much man in that prophesy, sorry :-(

I don't think Mike meant that the National Geographic article word was an actual "prophesy" in a biblical or even precognitive sense. The article was a possible scenario described by some informed experts that ended up playing out in history.The Geographic's prediction was based on an important contributive factor that I was really not aware of; namely the geological or hydrological features of the area had been changed in the past century for the worst. These changes led researchers to conclude that inevitably a hurricane would overwhelm the levee system and flooding would destroy the 80% of New Orleans that was below sea level. From another article dated Nov. 2004."The loss of the coastal marshes that dampened earlier storm surges puts the city at increasing risk to hurricanes. Eighty years of substantial river leveeing has prevented spring flood deposition of new layers of sediment into the marshes, and a similarly lengthy period of marsh excavation activities related to oil and gas exploration and transportation canals for the petrochemical industry have threatened marsh integrity."That the Red Cross decided to move their own people out of Orleans for any hurricane greater than a category 2 shows that they understood that a levee failure was imminent should the marshland, river and lake areas swell. Here are some exerpts from this other prediction article (Nov. 2004) with quotes from the Red Cross after the near miss last year by Hurricane Ivan. (Ivan hit Mobile Alabama instead...)"Residents who did not have personal transportation were unable to evacuate even if they wanted to. Approximately 120,000 residents (51,000 housing units x 2.4 persons/unit). do not have cars... Should this disaster ( a hurricane in New Orleans) become a reality, it would undoubtedly be one of the greatest disasters, if not the greatest, to hit the United States, with estimated costs exceeding 100 billion dollars. According to the American Red Cross, such an event could be even more devastating than a major earthquake in California. Survivors would have to endure conditions never before experienced in a North American disaster."The full article...Another agency warning from 2004MC

I was refering to the original prophesy posted for us to view at the top.

Thanks MC,That is correct, wasn't trying to be clever in that sense, probably could have emphasised "kind".The article did bring out a whole number of things that I had never heard about either. There is just so much that needs to be taken into consideration, in many areas of this life.

And thanks Dozmahn,Almost missed that, that you were referring to the original posting here.

YeshuaIsMyGd,Thanks for finding that link.This is an interesting point, whether or not these people's prophecies were not fulfilled.To the best of Isaiah's knowledge, Hezekiah probably was going to die. When that was confirmed by way of the LORD's commandment, Hezekiah was released to pray. God's pity on him was shown and an immediate subsequent prophecy was fulfilled. This one was more apparently difficult, even. Context, here, would show that the prophecy wasn't false - or even fully future related, but a confirmation of present conditions.Jonah's prophecy wasn't yet false, either. His main job was to tell the people of Nineveh what was going wrong, and that God was indeed very unhappy with them. When God grew the gourd and destroyed it, it was a bit of an emphasis to Jonah on what God's plan was. Why did Jonah run in the first place? Because he probably had a pretty good inkling that if he persued God's judgement, that this town of perceived enemies would be let live. Notice in the book how Jonah mearly states he is afflicted in the belly of the great fish, but insists that he needs to die when Nineveh is let live? Context on this point shows something slightly other than a direct contradiction to prophecy.Notice that both of these prophecies are actually events currently in commission. In Jonah (3:4 Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown,) there is no set answer that God would be the one *directly* overthrowing the city. In Isaiah, the king is sick to the point of death and Isaiah says he won't recover. For the purpose of overthrowing a city, an incredible quantity of planning and preparation is needed.Sorry for my somewhat random ordering. I'm attempting to argue that there is a plausable explanation that these particular "false" prophesies were actually more readily descriptions of current affairs and not false at all. The argument is much weaker (unsupportable) in Jonah's case. Isaiah's second prophecy for Hezekiah was more along the lines of stuff that shouldn't be false (or else.)Also, please note that the release of these prophecies is limited in scope. Jonah went through Nineveh crying out... yet all we know is that one line he said. To convince a crowd, I bet he had to have more specific information than just that.**Edited*

In a rather startling lack of foresight and an example of conclusive irony, I should state I had been formulating this reply for 2 days and that I didn't read either post about New Orleans beforehand.

Thanks Dohzman for the clarification. Your comment makes complete sense to me!