CHRISTIAN WOMEN: What should they NOT WEAR?

Dear brethrenThis has been a concern to me and I truly believe to our Lord as well. The issue of clothing, especially on a true Christian. For men it is a great deal easier, because men are much less the object of lust than women. Probably more than 80% of advertisements and pornography uses woman as the object. The Bible speaks of a new creation...everything becomes new!!Have you ever thought when a woman has truly met with a holy God? And if a woman has experienced revival in her heart and life? You will see it in the way she presents herself. I make this bold statement: If her clothes hasn't changed, her heart is still unchanged! Will a Spirit-filled woman still wear pants? Titivate herself with make-up for other men to enjoy them? Will she not stand out from among the world? Tell me, have we allowed the world to set our standard? Read the story of Madame Guyon and experience something of the holiness and purity of God.In His unchanging love,Gery.

Legalism is normally the point that pops up. Also that God looks at the heart, not at the outward appearance. But was it Luther that said "we need the outward, for we cannot see the heart".In HimGery

Dear Brathren,Some would probably say, who is he to speak? I speak in such a clear way because I have seen God change my own wife before my eyes. We were both heavily involved with drugs and the rave scene. You have probably seen what is worn in such circles. We are urged by John not to love the world. If we do, the love of the Father is simply not in us. Have we as Christians not allowed the world to influence us, especially on this matter. It is like the danger of allowing yourself to do things in mildness. In Finney and Moody's day, do you really think women whore men's clothing? In Paul and Peter's day, I believe women were testimonies not only in submission and their quiet spirits, but also in their whole beings.If I did not have my own wife to refer to I would never have been so bold. And since I came to the Lord I have seen it over and over in others.In Him,Gery

oh please, where does it dictate in the Word a dress code for his people? You nor any other Christian are not the judge, hairdresser, or dressmaker, God is. Your conviction may not be my conviction, so therefore we shouldn't judge on the outer appearance. Ex. I was in the grocery store after working as landscaper all day in 115 degree heat, looking pretty rough. There were 3 people at the meat counter talking about their upcoming revival giving me the cold shoulder thinking I am an unsaved heathen in need of saving because of my appearance mentioning in a very loud voice about what their Jesus could do for sinners. Excuse me ladies I know what my Jesus can do for sinners, he saved my soul a very long time ago when he looked upon the heart of a sinner and still sees my heart today not what I have on and he has instilled in me an annointing to teach, preach and evangilize. My dress code must not be so bad since he reveals to my heart the mysteries of his word and gives me the ability to teach and help lead people in jeans to Christ everyday. A landscaper planting trees in a frock is not a pretty sight.Gery wrote:Dear brethrenThis has been a concern to me and I truly believe to our Lord as well. The issue of clothing, especially on a true Christian. For men it is a great deal easier, because men are much less the object of lust than women. Probably more than 80% of advertisements and pornography uses woman as the object. The Bible speaks of a new creation...everything becomes new!!Have you ever thought when a woman has truly met with a holy God? And if a woman has experienced revival in her heart and life? You will see it in the way she presents herself. I make this bold statement: If her clothes hasn't changed, her heart is still unchanged! Will a Spirit-filled woman still wear pants? Titivate herself with make-up for other men to enjoy them? Will she not stand out from among the world? Tell me, have we allowed the world to set our standard? Read the story of Madame Guyon and experience something of the holiness and purity of God.In His unchanging love,Gery.

1Sa 16:7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.In Christ,GaryE

The Scripture are pretty clear concerning certain dress for woman. My wife also went through the very same changes after being born again. A woman should certainly not dress in a way that would cause another to lust or materialistically. There are many churches that are a fashion show - were the cost of the clothes and jewelry of the members on any given Sunday could staff and army of native missions for a year. Here are some Scriptures concerning women, dress and hair.1 Tim 2:9-159I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God. 11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.1 Peter 3:1-61Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, 2when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. 3Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. 4Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight. 5For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to their own husbands, 6like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.

As women we have a heavy burden put on us by society to look a certain way. I used to put all of my value in how I looked. I knew that if I looked a certain way, I would be accepted, I would gain favor and please the world. This appealed my flesh and my spirit. I'd like to say that the moment I accepted Jesus that this way of thinking went away....but it did not. I always dress very modestly, but the way I look is still a focus. On that the Lord is dealing with me. He tells me that I have to know my value IN HIM, not in the way I look!! My prayer now is "Lord I want people to notice me because of YOU...not me. When they look at my face I pray that it's YOURS they see!!" To say that if a women dresses a certain way... she can not love God, is not fair. You don't know her heart. You don't know the pressure she faces. She may look that way because of her husband's influence. I know many husbands in the church who put unfair expectations on their wifes to look and dress a certain way. I'm not saying it's right, but most women dress sexy not to draw attention to themselves, but to just feel worthy of being called a woman.

Both Christian men and women should dress modestly, and we should not dress like the opposite sex. There is quite some room for interpretation here. I work with youth at church, and have avoided going swimming with them, as I know what some of the girls would wear, as I know how they dress casually. I also have worked with all boys groups from the inner city, and don't see anything wrong with a bunch of guys going swimming together, ex: sharks and minnows, teaching the boys to swim, etc. I do go scuba diving and like swimming, and may start wearing shirts when doing either if I feel the Lord leads me. God will deal with me directly on this, I pray. Scripture is clear on the matter of nudity, and it just seems the closer you get to nude, either by less clothes or tighter, the worse. To be honest I like to go to the pool, and sometimes feel that I ought not take my shirt off in public, though I do, as we have a neighborhood pool. I think most of the preachers I admire would probably say we guys need to keep the shirts on, but 'Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.' It seems the issue is to not make anyone stumble. Personally, I fully admit my flesh is attracted to scantily clad girls, so I don't like being around that kind of thing, and if there are girls around I try not to look at what they are advertising. 'If you're not in business, don't advertise.' But we must remember that these girls need the gospel just as anyone. So we should look through that garbage, and remember that there is a soul that needs to be saved.Let the Bible talk:Duet 22:5 "The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God."1 Tim 2:9-10 "In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works."1 Pet 3:1-4 "Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price."

Duet 22:5 "The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God."I am not sure that this verse is really talking about specific fashions but what we might call 'cross dressing'. If a woman dresses 'as' a man, or a man dresses 'as a woman', these 'cross dressers' were an abomination to God, but then again so was the eating of oysters, squid, eels, lobster, crab, crayfish...“And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:” (Lev. 11:10, KJVS)

I think like anything else in the Christian's life the point to consider is a new creation!Remember, it is the heart that changes and therefor the intentions thereof and the motives, the reason WHY!"The Word of God ...is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart"(Heb. 4:12) God's word judges deep down inside. It cuts away and away. We love speaking of revival, but how deep do we allow God to work. It is like the earth or an onion that is made up out of layers. The more you allow Him to cut away, the deeper He will go. And He does it through His Word and by His Spirit. Why do I wear this, why do I do that, why do I speak in such a manner.And so it is, if we do not allow Him on this thing He is busy with, He cannot get to the next thing in your life. He is a jealous God! He will change you into the image of His Son: inside and outside! God will always come back to that point over and over again, untill you yield. He doesn't say: "shame he doesn't want to, lets try the next point". He doesn't compromise, because we might do so. I dont know where you are spiritually, but may the Lord work deeply in our lives. Starting afresh with me. Let us consider our ways and ask Him for His will searching. In His love,Gery

This topic was discussed a while ago. You may enjoy reading this thread - some real honest sharing: Biblical Modesty dont think women should wear football pads.Krispy, I think these went out of fashion a while ago. So you don't have to preach against them any more! Diane

Gery, I am not a male but hope you do not mind a female weighing in on this issue.I agree with you.From my own experience, the Lord has been working on me on how I should dress. And I do suppose this is a constantly evolving thing. BUT we must be sensitive to the spirit and go where he leads us. Be obedient. I have had non-Christian clients at CPC who took issue with the way women dressed for worship services: they looked like they were participating in a fashion show. It was a sure turn off for them. Their clothes exuded wealth....perhaps this may be one of the reasons Bro. Paul tells women to not use jewelry? Something to think about...ginnyrose

they looked like they were participating in a fashion show. It was a sure turn off for them. Their clothes exuded wealth..Sadly many women will do whatever it takes to fit in and be acceptable. We make ourselves slaves of the fashion market. We want to be "in" so that no one will think we are an old-fashioned Christian (God forbid!). However we are not always aware of what we communicate through our dress to those outside of our peer group - as your comment reveals. Choir robes and clerical robes have been a great way to avoid this, though, I think that they were worn in the past to protect poor clergy/singers from the embarassment of having no Sunday clothing. Robes also conceal eye-catching body shapes - and thus people's minds can be free to focus on worship. I wear a robe in my church. When I first started there as a Music Minister, I was not impressed about this "confinement" but now I love it. I don't have to think about what I'm going to wear, what jewelry matches, etc. I would have never known the value of the robe until I had to wear one myself. Diane

Diane,I personally love to see the robes worn by choir members and clergy. You are right: it does conceal body shapes beautifully! It does not distract from worship at all, IMHO.ginnyrose

Hey guys,I'd first like to point out that no one can make another lust. What a woman wears cannot make me lust. What a man wears cannot make a woman lust. Our lustful thoughts are our owns. No one can place this in your mind. Remember, you can dangle a carrot in front of a rabbit and tempt him, but inside, that rabbit wantsthat carrot.Secondly, we all, myself included, need to stop removing scripture from its context and using it to "prove" a point.Thirdly, I do agree with a lot of what was said. Though we cannot blame others for the lust in our hearts, there are ways a woman should & shouldn't dress. And I don't think there is such a vague line.Once it is agrees upon that this should be worn .... and not that ... the content should be easy to decipher.In Love

I agree with the poster who said that they have changed........as they were convicted. For me also, it is an ever evolving thing. I used to wear bikinis........then I went to a one piece, now I wear a modest skirted suit. Maybe one day soon the Lord will convict me not to go to a public swimming area. I also see a progression in the types of dresses I wear. I now LOVE long dresses/skirts. However, I DON'T feel convicted about wearing pants----except that TIGHT PANTS are no longer appropriate wear for a Christian woman.Makeup, well, I USED to wear much more, but that too is changing as my focus changes. As I have grown older, I've realized that being focused on "self" too much is a form of idolatry---and I ask myself questions such as this: am I making myself look better for me or someone else? That's really the question all Christian women should ask themselves----why do they wear the clothes they wear? Why do they wear the amount of makeup they wear? Why do they wear the amount of jewelry they wear?........and the biggest question of all that we should be asking ourselves: Will I cause a brother/sister to be offended by what I am wearing/not wearing? One thing I noticed is that many of the more Word focused churches contain people who are much more conservatively dressed. Those churches who are more "seeker friendly" seem to be, at least the ones I've been to, much more worldly/sensual in their dress........The Word of God preached AND LIVED by others, will bring conviction where the Lord desires change. Just my 2cents. Blessings in Jesus, Cindy

Someone mentioned about kids. Isn't it shocking the way the young girls look nowadays. I think in the day of Sodom they must have also dressed similar to our day. Some mothers has said that they find it impossible to get proper dress for her girls. One believing mother said that she just about have to make all her girl's clothing. The same mother stated: "no wonder there are so many pedophiles around". It is harsh but tue. There are few things as beautiful as a girl, that still looks like a girl. In Him,Gery

"The same mother stated: "no wonder there are so many pedophiles around". It is harsh but true." I had to address this because it bothered me a great deal. This is in no way truth. Pedophiles are not pedophiles because of what the children wear. No matter how short a mother lets her daughter wear a skirt - that will not produce a pedophile. People are sick with this sin not because of how others may seem sexually attractive to them but because of the extremely twarted sin in their hearts. That is a whole other subject ... If we could just understand that sin, such as having sexual relations with children, does not come from other people. No one, can make you sin. We must learn to take responsibility of our sinful nature and cast it, and nail it upon the Cross of Calvary.In Love

Hello...!I agree that there are alot of women (and men for that matter) who may dress without modesty today. However, who is to say how Biblical modesty is defined?There was a new believer that walked into a Church sanctuary a few years ago. He was a sincere young man who had a truly wonderful conversion to the Lord from scientific atheism, and worked as a mailman (with the U.S. Post Office). He began attending the Church that I was attending at the time, and was seeking God quite diligently. One day, our Church was having a "play practice" for our annual "Passion Play." Michael (this new believer) came to the Church during his lunch break. However, he was wearing his Post Office baseball cap. An older fellow saw the cap and said, "Brother, don't you respect God??? How can you wear that in the House of God?!?" This elder brother was undoubtedly sincere. But he said this in front of the entire cast and crew of the drama (about 75 people). Michael immediately took his hat off and apologized. The man was still quite stern and told him to "apologize to God, not just us." Michael left in tears. Michael was really afraid that he had sinned. That night, I went to his home and spoke with him. Like I suspected, this man's comments had bothered him all day. He sincerely stated that he did not know that wearing a hat in a Church sanctuary is a sin. I smiled and told him, "Michael -- it's not. Those were just the comments of a man who is used to traditional customs." I explained that there are many people who have "deep convictions" that they take to heart, and sometimes, they act accordingly. I told Michael not to let this man's comments bother him, and to just pour out the hurt from those comments to God. We prayed together, and I went home and spoke to my parents about what had happened that day. That happened when I was in high school. But since then, I have met many believers from various churches that have experienced similar situations concerning what they wore. I have also been "corrected" by sincere believers for wearing shorts, jeans and even Christian t-shirts. I believe that the Lord is patient with us, and he desires that we neither "dress up" , nor "dress down" when meeting with God or with others. In other words, we come to God "just as we are." I have seen Churches where men are ostracized for not wearing a tie or a three piece suit. It is my own belief that we should wear to Church meetings what we wear in our daily lives. I used to work with our Church's large bus ministry. The pastor wanted for those who are in "ministry" at the church to always wear a suit when possible, or at least a nice shirt and tie. I did so, but I started to notice that the children who attended on our buses were mostly from poor areas of town. I felt "out-of-place" because of the way that I was dressed in front of them. Thus, I began to wear just comfortable, casual clothes. I spoke to the Pastor, and just informed him that I was going to do this, and I told him my reason why. Because I was so actively involved in many areas of the Church, he didn't disagree. What is Biblical modesty? Does it mean "dressing down" or legalistic standards of dress? No. When I came to the Lord during high school, I was a popular guy. So, I dressed the part. I wore nice and expensive clothing and shoes. My hair was always "vogue" with the latest hairstyles. But after having given my life to Christ, I changed. I was no longer worried about how I looked, or what I wore. I just wore what was comfortable, and what I believed to be modest and non-worldly. I definitely prayed about how I dressed. But I didn't allow anyone to dictate what or how I dressed -- either from the world or the Church. I listened to those who complained, but I always considered what they said through prayer and by the Word of God.There is a religion that has quite a legalistic standard of "modesty" for their women. It's called Shi'ia Islam (Shi'ites). But most of us would agree that their "complete covering standards" are quite extreme. :-)

No one, can make you sin. Hi, found this interesting verse:1At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?" 2He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5"And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. 6But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7"Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come!Matt 18:1-7Is Jesus disagreeing with you, or am I using incorrect exegesis. You are right in the ultimate liabibilty for sin, for the soul who sins will die.The only way I can explain it is that in the Tombs of the pharoahs they found seeds of plants that were placed with the pharoah for his after life. Those seeds even after thousands of years were able to produce life, it was just being true to its nature. The question then arises what in the present momment made those seeds germinate? Moisture and earth. Same seed different environments, same with phida, in fact same with any human. The seed, the potential to sin is present within everyone, all it needs is the right conditions. In this case little ladies walking around advertising goods they are in no position to give.Thats why I find the scripture at the beginning of this post quite interesting, someone causing another to sin.

I get your pointYour statement is a perfect example of a classical 'thinking error'. What is that?She is not advertising ANYTHING! To the gutter smut she is, via the consent of the parents.Presuming allot about what I was not saying and reading to much into what I did say.If you felt that I was suggesting that little ladies dress like that because they want to temp men, then ask me. Giving me a klap because I seemed to suggest that they may do it consciously is poor form really, and an insult to my character that I have exhibited on this forum.Talk about being over sensitive. Just talk to me and ask me straight up ,what did you mean, because I sounds like...It appears that it is an emotional response to a sensitive topic. The fact that you pm'ed before hand to tell me that you were going to do it is very noble, but how about pming me to ask what I meant. It just does'nt add up, why post a fiery retort in public and then pm me and ever so politley offer to apologies if you offend me. Who are you trying to impress by your response.You are right it came out wrong, and I apologies for not thinking about that sentence, but geez lady. Relax!

In looking at this topic as well as alot of ohters, we must ask ourselves (honestly) "Would a corpse care about this?" also "Does this hinder or promote the world seeing Christ?" or else one would go insane trying to please every person who had this view and that view on what is proper. There are some who would say that a womans's elbows should not be exposed as it might cause an impure thought. Just my two cents

Dear Brethren,It has been a while since I posted this thread and I am amazed to see all the replies and thoughts. A lot was already said and I sense that many of you are scared of an outer change, without the inner. I fully agree. I am not trying to make laws, but as I said, I have seen my wife change and go deep with the Lord and not only her- others as well. Some of you say that the Bible doesn't state clearly about how women should dress, others say that the culture in the Bible was different, but please have a look at these verses that my dear wife gave me concerning this subject and other statements I made:My statement: "have we allowed the world to set our standard?"Her verse: "...for the fashion of this world passeth away" (1 Cor 7:31)This world speaks about the kingdom that Satan has set up. Therefor, to dress like the world is to bring glory to satan (James 4:4)Look also at these verse:1Ti 2:9 In the same way also, I desire that women adorn themselves in decent clothing (modest apparel:KJV), with modesty and sensibleness, not adorned with braiding (Broided hair: KJV), or gold, or pearls, or costly clothing, 1Ti 2:10 but with good works, which becomes women professing godliness. Note the wording decent clothing's Greek meaning: "Katastole" This (according to my wife) denotes: A long flowing garment that is let down. See also "broided hair", it seems like Paul had a bit of a problem even with the way or styles of the Church ladies. I wonder what he would have thought of hair dye.Next point: Deu 22:5 "A woman must not wear a man's clothing, nor a man wear women's clothing. This kind of thing is an abomination to GOD, your God."Why an abomination? The Bible catagorises this with: Homosexuality, beastiality, mock-worship and witchcraft.The reason why this common-to-our-day thing of "neutral clothing" is such a serious matter (an abomination) to God, is because it is nothing less than Rebellion. 1 Samuel 15:23 says: "Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft"Maybe mankind has changed since then, maybe fashion has changed, cultures have. But Brethren, God has not changed a bit! He is the same yesterday, today and forever (Heb 13:8). We should not see how far we can live from the standards of God but how close.I think if Paul was the minister in our church today, things would be far different. If he had a chance to come back, he would have written the same Gospel letters, with the same life changing message!In His love,Gery"The nature of Christ's salvation is woefully misrepresented by the present-day evangelist. He announces a Savior from hell rather than a Savior from sin. And that is why so many are fatally deceived, for there are multitudes who wish to escape the Lake of fire who have no desire to be delivered from their carnality and worldliness." - A. W. Pink

When my husband and I were on a missions trip into the jungles of South America we visited a remote primitive area where nudity was the norm. As soon as they converted to the Christian faith, the missionary taught them they were to wear clothing. He gave them bags of used clothing. Now, one day, they heard our boat coming towards them. When we arrived, no one was there, and I asked why. It was because they had all run to their huts to get dressed up for us. Then, I saw the unbelievable: Women came out of their mud huts dressed most comically, some wearing ill-fitting slips, negligees, many simply a bra, some a dress with zipper undone, most were topless, with merely a skirt, or wrap around, some men wore a dress shirt with a loin cloth. The missionary had obviously become accustomed to their unique attire, and just continued to minister to their needs with a heart of love. Why do I share that? I don’t know. Maybe because I admire the freedom they had – not all bound up in fashion, self-image, etc etc. They were more concerned about other things – survival in the brutal jungle. Later I will post about a concern I picked up in an earlier part of this thread. Diane

Dear Diane"Women came out of their mud huts dressed most comically, some wearing ill-fitting slips, negligees, many simply a bra, some a dress with zipper undone, most were topless, with merely a skirt, or wrap around, some men wore a dress shirt with a loin clot"That is quite humorous, makes me think of Adam and Eve who used fig leaves! when they became conscious of their nakedness after eating from the tree. As Romans says: "the law is a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ". I say this because in the Revival among the Zulus which broke out in 1966 here in South Africa the opposite happened to that of what you say about the South American jungles: Women and men started dressing godly soon after they were saved from their ancestral worship and traditional witchcraft. It probably depends on how deep the work of God was. Then again, revival is not a common occurence.In Him,Gery

I agree that the teenaged fashions these days are unacceptable. Yet, amongst each other, teens seem to think nothing of the scanty look. It is normal for them. I suspect that the issue has to do with peer acceptance, more than anything. They want to fit in. (Didn’t we when we were that age?) So they make themselves a slave to the exploitive fashion market. There has already been a lot of discussion addressing sensual attire. I add this: I believe that one can dress modestly and still harbour hidden lust. Men (and women) who have very sensitive spirits can pick up on this, even though there are no visible clues. Those who are able to discern a lustful spirit, can then guard themselves appropriately. Also, they will avoid falsely suspecting any female who exercises poor discretion in her dress as having a spirit of lust. I think some women dress improperly because they just don’t think about the message they are communicating. Or mybe they see no value in themselves other than what their bodies can offer men. (Those ones may very well have been sexually exploited in the past – and need Christ’s healing.) Dress codes: Rules can feel very controlling, and demeaning, like we are being treated like children. Yet, the police force has a dress code, medical staff have one, schools have one. etc etc. So, should a church have a dress code? The problem is when one’s level of spirituality gets all tied up in issues of outer appearance – and that seems to be where legalistic minds take the issue of dress. As I said earlier, another solution is choir robes – simple, no discussion needed, no shaming, no conflict. School uniforms would help, wouldn’t they? The fashion industry wouldn't think so. Re Zulus: It probably depends on how deep the work of God was. Or it depends on how thoroughly they are instructed about western dress. Diane

There are two statements that I wish to revisit, not to repeat what has already been said, but to add another important dimension. "no wonder there are so many pedophiles around". In this case little ladies walking around advertising goods they are in no position to give. I don’t attribute these statements to anyone here in particular, but quote them as examples of prevalent beliefs in our society. I will try to explain:Apparently one in every four females have been sexually abused at some point in their lives (and the statistics aren’t a whole lot better for males.) Circumstances may vary, but there is one common factor: The victim believes that it was her (his) fault. Often a passive parent, ex mom might say something like this: “It is your own fault that your dad did that to you. You made yourself available.” Children who experience this kind of shaming response become locked in their self-blame, shame, and guilt. They then become easy prey for further abuse. They also carry this destructive self-belief into other aspects of life. They are suseptable to further shaming. It makes it very hard for them to fully trust the love of the heavenly Father. Sadly, it is not only the pagans, but also those within the church who shoot their wounded – and don't even know it. For that reason I feel that the abuse problem is something worth learning about. Then we will know how to minister to the many people around us who silently suffer the lingering effects. Then we will be better equipped to facilitate their healing. And also, we will look beyond the outer attire - and see a dear person who needs to be touched with Christ's love. Diane