FUNERAL OF FREE SPEECH

Got this in my email this morning... thought I would toss this out there. Pretty scarey. I'll see y'all in jail! Someone bring a song book!I cant remember who it was, but an American author in the 1800's was put in jail for "civil disobedience" because he spoke out against an injustice. A friend visited him in prison and said "What are you doing in here??", and the author responded, "Friend, what are you doing out there?".May we have the same guts when standing for God!KrispyNEW FEDERAL “HATE” BILL MEANS FUNERAL OF FREE SPEECHBy Rev. Ted PikeOn Sept. 14, the US House of Representatives passed, 223-199, the ominous federal “anti-hate” bill, the Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 2005. It was inserted as AMDT.2662 into the Children’s Safety Act (HR 3132). If approved unaltered by the senate judiciary, as S.1145, then, after approval by the Senate, this legislation is ready for the President to sign into law. Here is a summary of what the bill would make law: Although S.1145 ostensibly empowers the government to assist states in prosecution of violent hate crimes, its actual effect will be much more far-reaching. S.1145 will lead to enforcement of the working definitions of “hate” and “hate crimes” which are enforced by the many “anti-hate” bureaucracies in countries throughout the western industrialized world. In such countries, it is now a “hate crime” to criticize members of federally protected groups such as Jews and homosexuals. Utilizing such definitions, “hate crime” indictments have been made or are currently being pursued by Canada, England, Sweden, Germany, Australia and New Zealand. S.1145 builds a foundation for a “hate crimes” bureaucracy in America, also ending free speech. Here are some of the specially protected groups which S.1145 defends: Homosexuals. Any public criticism of homosexuals will soon be considered a hate crime, just as it was for 11 Christians under the Pennsylvania hate crime law on Oct. 10, 2004. These Christians were arrested as “hate criminals” for preaching during a huge “gay pride” rally and faced 47 years in prison and $80,000 fines each. Women. A woman who claims her boyfriend used a sexist word against her and raped her the last time they had sex, can press charges for a “hate crime” of rape. Punishment will triple the usual penalty, about 30 years in prison. Jews. Already the Dept. of Global Anti-semitism, being established in the US State Dept., makes it “anti-semitic” to express “strong anti-Israel sentiment” against Israel or its leaders. It also says upholding the New Testament charge that Jews killed Christ is “anti-semitic.” Under “anti-hate” laws in Canada and Europe, such statements are “hate crimes” punishable by harsh fines and imprisonment. S.1145 will hasten such anti-Christianity in America as well. ENDING FREE SPEECH RADIOIf this amendment is approved, FCC restrictions will soon descend on American talk show hosts, with lists of banned topics. Hosts will be fined or imprisoned and stations will lose their broadcast licenses, just as in Canada, if they violate these restrictions. In Canada in Aug. 2004, “CHOI FM,” Quebec City’s most popular talk show station, lost its license to broadcast. Among its "speech crimes," one of its talk show hosts criticized African dictators whose children were educated in Canadian universities. The government considered this a "hate crime" against blacks. Today, CHOI FM and its 33 employees continue to broadcast only by persuing a very costly appeal to Canada's Supreme Court. If that fails, CHOI FM is off the air.If S.1145 is passed, exactly the same will soon happen to broadcasters who stray from the new “politically correct” FCC guidelines. S.1145 will also invite pedophiles, witches, warlocks, Satanists and even “sinners” to acquire special federal protection from those who criticize them, including pastors. In England especially, Satanists and witches are included under Britain’s new, stiffer “anti-hate” law. If passed, S.1145 will provide immediate special FBI, Justice Dept. and local police assistance to protected groups that claim to have been offended. As the nation saw last October in Philadelphia, on the slightest evidence of bias, police will descend on Christians, pastors, talk show hosts and station managers, indicting them with trumped-up “hate crime” charges and exorbitant penalties. FEDERAL TAKEOVER OF LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENTThe sovereign rights of states to enforce the law as they see fit has posed a huge barrier to establishment of a federal “anti-hate” bureaucracy. Until now, the government has had to prove that such abuses as jury tampering, voter fraud, slavery, or crimes involving interstate commerce existed in states before they could meddle in state law enforcement. S.1145 would legitimize as law several devious strategies to break down all barriers to federal intrusion. S.1145 asserts that if a violent bias crime within a state in any way affects interstate commerce, the federal government has the right to invade state law enforcement. This means that if a homosexual has been called a “faggot” and threatened to have his butt kicked by a gas station attendant, and as a result does not patronize that gas station whose products have come from across the state line, the federal government can intervene. Or if the homosexual buys a Greyhound ticket (vehicle of interstate commerce) to resettle in San Fransisco as a result of such threatened “violence,” the federal government has a green light to take over state hate crime law enforcement in that state. S.1145 asserts that bias in states is a “relic” of slavery. This bill contends that the presence of bias-motivated violent crime within a state is proof that slavery still exists in that state. This provides the same justification for intervention that the federal government had in putting down slavery during the Civil War! Under S.1145, the government can take over local law enforcement if:States do not have “anti-hate” laws. Sec. B (b)(2A) States are not enforcing state and federal hate laws as zealously as the federal government wishes. Sec. B (b)(2A) States do not produce the kind of verdicts in hate crimes trials that the federal government wants. Sec. B (b)(2D) VIOLATING THE CONSTITUTIONS.1145 flatly violates the 14th Amendment to the Constitution, which prohibits government from favoring any particular group. S.1145 will give hate crimes bureaucrats control of the federal anti-hate agenda. Very quickly, via enabling legislation and judicial precedent, any pretext of respect for the rights of Christians or dissenters will dissolve, as has happened under anti-hate laws in Canada, and under Pennsylvania’s ADL hate law in Philadelphia on Oct 10. All criticism of protected groups via politically incorrect terms, such as “homosexual” or “sodomite,” will become a hate crime, just as it is under British hate law. A huge number of legal precedents will continuously widen hate law jurisdiction. Courts will quickly clog with federal indictments. Staggering backups of unresolved cases will make the federal hate law, like Roe vs. Wade, virtually impossible to repeal. Canada provides a telescope to American legislators, warning them of the legal confusion and financial exhaustion which comes to those who run afoul of hate crimes bureaucracies. Members of the senate judiciary committee are in a position now to insist that our time-tested legal system be allowed to continue to do what it has done so well for centuries: punish all crime, including “hate crime,” according to physical evidence--- not according to the vagaries of “bias motivation.” National Prayer Network, P.O. Box 828, Clackamas, OR 97015

Hey Krisp, you done your due diligence on this guy Pike?I mean if you think he's a great guy exposing truth, so be it.I think you either haven't read too deep into what he expouses, or mebbe you just agree with what he says onThe National Prayer Network's "Truthtellers" Website is a unique resource center reflecting a truly biblical approach to Israel, the Jewish people, and to America's relationship with Israel. Jesus commands us, in Mark 8:15, to view false Jewish leadership with suspicion. This is a warning to the United States to be wary of military and geopolitical entanglements in support of arrogant Zionist regimes in Israel. False Jewish leadership today, as in biblical times also, leads the Jews astray, inciting anti-Christian behavior, and thus, a backlash of anti-semitism. Following the example of Christ and the Hebrew prophets, this website boldly criticizes that evil leadership wherever it is found. This includes the Anti-Defamation League and its anti-Christian "hate laws," Jewish controlled Hollywood and the media, pharisaic leadership in the Jewish religion, and evil Zionist leadership in Israel. By constructive, biblically oriented criticism, we believe both the United States of America and the Jewish people can be protected to fulfill their respective destinies in God's plan of the ages. Bud, I seen this stuff before, ain't got nothing do with nothing except good old fashioned Jew baiting and hating.

this is good. I'm glad we have such an able sentry and watchman as the Reverend Pike to warn us about the "evil Jewish leadership" afoot in the world today... Yet, if such a backlash emerges, it will not be the Jewish rabbis, financiers, and media moguls who will suffer most. It will be the Jewish people. This is what happened in Weimar Germany in 1939 when Jewish shopkeepers had their windows smashed to atone for the sins of Jewish financiers in high places.St. Paul expressed the purpose of the National Prayer Network perfectly. He said: "Brethren, my heart's desire is…for their salvation." (Rom.10:1) In order to protect God's chosen people, a remnant of Jews, it is necessary to educate both Christians and Jews concerning the magnitude of the threat that evil Jewish leadership poses to both. to this Jew that kind of rhetoric is disgusting,foul and probably satanically inspired. talk about hate speech.Yeh, Reverend Ted that's why all those Jewish business owners had their business's trashed, banned outlawed and confiscated on "Kristalnacht" in 1938, coz they had to atone for the sins of Jewish financiers.that is garbage.

"This pogrom has come to be called Kristallnacht, "the Night of Broken Glass."On the nights of November 9 and 10, gangs of Nazi youth roamed through Jewish neighborhoods breaking windows of Jewish businesses and homes, burning synagogues and looting. In all 101 synagogues were destroyed and almost 7,500 Jewish businesses were destroyed. 26,000 Jews were arrested and sent to concentration camps, Jews were physically attacked and beaten and 91 died (Snyder, Louis L. Encyclopedia of the Third Reich. New York: Paragon House, 1989:201).The official German position on these events, which were clearly orchestrated by Goebbels, was that they were spontaneous outbursts. The Fuehrer, Goebbels reported to Party officials in Munich, "has decided that such demonstrations are not to be prepared or organized by the party, but so far as they originate spontaneously, they are not to be discouraged either." (Conot, Robert E. Justice at Nuremberg. New York: Harper & Row, 1983:165)Three days later, on November 12, Goering called a meeting of the top Nazi leadership to assess the damage done during the night and place responsibility for it. Present at the meeting were Goering, Goebbels, Reinhard Heydrich, Walter Funk and other ranking Nazi officials. The intent of this meeting was two-fold: to make the Jews responsible for Kristallnacht and to use the events of the preceding days as a rationale for promulgating a series of antisemitic laws which would, in effect, remove Jews from the German economy. Following the meeting, a wide-ranging set of antisemitic laws were passed which had the clear intent, in Goering's words, of "Aryanizing" the German economy. Over the next two or three months, the following measures were put into effect (cf., Burleigh and Wippermann, The Racial State: Germany, 1933-1945. New York:Cambridge, 1991:92-96): Jews were required to turn over all precious metals to the government. Pensions for Jews dismissed from civil service jobs were arbitrarily reduced. Jewish-owned bonds, stocks, jewelry and art works can be alienated only to the German state. Jews were physically segregated within German towns. A ban on the Jewish ownership of carrier pigeons. The suspension of Jewish driver's licenses. The confiscation of Jewish-owned radios. A curfew to keep Jews of the streets between 9:00 p.m. and 5:00 a.m. in the summer and 8:00 p.m. and 6:00 a.m. in the winter. Laws protecting tenants were made non-applicable to Jewish tenantsSo, it appears, the term "Kristallnacht" or "Crystal Night" was invented by Nazis to mock Jews on that black November night in 1938. It is, therefore, another example of Nazi perversion. There are numerous other examples of this same tendency in the language of the Nazi perpetrators: Sonderbehandlung ("special treatment") for gassing victims, Euthanasie for a policy of mass murder of retarded or physically handicapped patients, "Arbeit Macht Frei" (Work Makes you Free) over the entrance to Auschwitz. When the Nazis launched their plan to annihilate the remaining Jews in Poland in the fall of 1943, they called it "Erntefest," or Harvest Festival. While this may have been a code word, as Froma Zeitlin has observed, it had the same grim and terrible irony that is reflected in Kristallnacht as in so many other instances of the perverted uses of language in the Third Reich. Perhaps most cynical of all is the use of the term, "Endloesung der Judenfrage" (Final Solution of the Jewish Question), for what is now known as the Holocaust. Goebbels frequently used such terminology to amuse his audiences (usually other Nazi officials) and to further demoralize his victims."

The official German position on these events.... was that they were spontaneous outbursts. Neil,For many years I couldn't stand anything real about violence. Much later, I realised I was offended that Jesus Christ had had to die for my sin. My sin was so bad that a good Man had to die. I hated it. It showed me up as a sinner. But I got over it and went through with God because I was a sinner and wanted to be saved.Much more recently, I couldn't stand violence because it frightened me. There were historic reasons for that; but God has taken away my fears and is healing my past; He's taken the backlog of my anger at having been betrayed and humiliated; and in my growing wholeness I can look at the pain of others from a stance of new internal strength; and I hate what I see and hear, and what I'm coming to understand of the violence which comes from mens' hearts. I do know one person can kill another, deliberately but at the same time, I don't know how they do it; and I don't know how anyone can kill for a political ideal.Genesis 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and every imagination of the thoughts of his heart - only evil continually. Thank you for putting together those reports of what happened before WW2 and in 1943. I needed to hear them - once. It's enough.2 Cor 5:19 ..God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Philippians 1:14..most of the brethren in the Lord, having become confident by my chains, are much more bold to speak the word without fear.. out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel. What then? Only in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached; and in this I rejoice, yes, and will rejoice. For I know that this will turn out for my deliverance through your prayer and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, according to my earnest expectation and hope that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ will be magnified in my body, whether by life or by death. Krispy,We gotta be prepared to die for Jesus. According to Basilea Schlink, world politics is going to single Christians out for their non-compliance (Amen!) and there will be plenty of opportunity for us to secure the end of our faith - the salvation of our souls.

Neil, What Krispy posted is about a bill that has passed through Congress and is going to the Senate floor and may affect you someday.What you don't understand, is that "Zionism" is not Jewish-ism, as we know it.I'm pleased if I have Jewish blood in me, but if I find out tomorrow that I don't, it doesn't change a thing with Messiah in me.1/3 of Israel will be "saved"... the other 2/3s Won't.Then we have these verses Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. I see where this Pastor that Krispy posted "differentiates" between God's chosen and Zionists, and it may do you well to study about the Zionists.They had their hand in the Holocaust too bro and are very Political and against 'your' freedoms.http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/I don't fully agree with this site above either, but there are much better sites out there that explain the difference between Zionism and Jews, as we know what Jews should be.I only gave this one, to show the divisions out there.

The rest of the Story.Quote:MAKING LOVERS OF ISRAEL INTO ANTI-SEMITES Last October 10th, ADL/B'nai B'rith lashed out in unprecedented fury against eleven Christians in Philadelphia for the "hate crime" of witnessing to homosexuals. Through ADL national board member, Philadelphia D.A. Lynne Abraham, ADL/B'nai B'rith attempted to incarcerate those Christians for 47 years in prison with fines of $80,000.00 each. Throughout the western world and Europe, ADL/B'nai Brith hate laws are now indicting evangelical Christians. Cases against Christians in Canada, Sweden, England, Italy, Germany, Australia and New Zealand have taken place or are in progress. In dozens of other countries under ADL/B'nai B'rith hate laws, Christian testimony is now intimidated. OMINOUS SIGNS In Canada, B'nai B'rith's federal anti-hate law was passed by Parliament in 1971 after at least five years of B'nai B'rith lobbying the law was designed to end Christian truth-telling and evangelism, as well as criticism of matters Jewish. The same is true of provincial hate laws, also orchestrated by B'nai B'rith Canada and the Canadian Jewish Congress. A pastor in northern Canada recently told me that as he handed out gospel tracts in his town, a policeman informed him that such "proselytizing" is now a hate crime under provincial law. If he continued, he would be arrested. As Rabbi Daniel Lapin recently warned, evangelical Christians are "under relentless attack" by "secular Judaism" (i.e. ADL/B'nai B'rith). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~http://adl.org/PresRele/Internet_75/4790_75.htmPress Release Internet from the ADL U.S. House Briefed on International Cooperation on Internet Hate Washington, DC, September 9, 2005 .... Continuing to further efforts on international cooperation regarding online hate stemming from the OSCE Conference on Hate on the Internet in Paris in June 2004, ADL experts addressed a packed room on Capitol Hill to discuss how governments, industry and advocates could partner to curb online hate. The session was sponsored by the Congressional Task Force Against Anti-Semitism and co-hosted by ADL and the French Embassy.The meeting began with remarks from Task Force Co-Chairs Reps. Tom Lantos (D-CA) and Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-FL). Ambassador Jean David Levitte of France and Ambassador Samuel Zbogar of Slovenia discussed the ongoing efforts by France and OSCE nations to combat Internet hate and foster international cooperation. Slovenia currently chairs the OSCE.Panelists included Christopher Wolf, Chair of ADL's Internet Task Force and Partner, Proskauer Rose, who spoke about the complex legal issues surrounding bigotry online; Markham Erickson, General Counsel for NetCoalition, who discussed the Internet industry's responses and continued commitment to enforcing their already-existing usage policies for users regarding online hatred; and Brian Marcus, ADL Director of Internet Monitoring gave a multi-media presentation that highlighted many examples of hate materials from around the world."We all know and appreciate that the Internet has transformed the ways in which we communicate, educate, inform and entertain. But there is a dark side to the Internet," Mr. Wolf testified. "Terrorists, anti-Semites, racists, homophobes and other haters have logged on and are online. ... Unfortunately, the Internet has become the new frontier in spreading hate."Mr. Wolf offered recommendations for coordinating an international response to online hate, including:Better international cooperation and coordination of monitoring the use of the Internet for hateful and terroristic purposes. Studies on the ways in which vulnerable people, especially children, become exposed to hate sites and content, and the ways in which such content affects that audience. An examination of the link between hate speech and hate crimes. Annual reports should be prepared on the "State of Hate on the Internet" setting forth trends and describing where there has been progress in fighting such hate.Panelists discussed the ongoing efforts to coordinate the fight against online hate, and agreed that government, industry and nongovernmental organizations need to work together – even in vastly different frameworks. International differences can be bridged, and all players can agree on a common set of principals regarding hate online that respect the differences, but still seek to expose hate, get industry to act on sites that violate their terms of service and to educate parents, educators and kids about what to do when they encounter hate online. [End Article] There are some Protestants that are into the making of a Global Governance & Religion and to shutting most of 'us' up.There are some Catholics that feel the same.Not all Protestants are Christians, not all Catholics are Christians, and not all who claim to be Jews are Jews.From any three of these groups, you have nice people and not nice people.That should be obvious to us, as adults.Sad but true, from any of these 3 groups alone, you will find organizations within them, that want to shut us bible thumpers up. :cry:

I was only posting something about a bill that is in Congress. I dont know much about Pike... and if he is anti-semitic, then I certainly do not condone that at all. Y'all should know that about me by this point.This article appeared on many websites that are run by organizations that I know people here would respect. I certainly do not agree with what Thomas Jefferson believed concerning God and the Bible... but I sure love the Constitution of the United States (that he wrote).Dont label me a Nazi for posting an article that only dealt with the topic of limiting free speech that may have been written by someone who hates Jews. I didnt know there was even a controversy!And guess what... I believe this man has a right to say what he wants. I'll be more careful about who I'm quoting on here, I promise you that. But if we tell this man that he cant say what he believes... then pretty soon none of us will be able to.Again, if this is true about Pike, please know that I was ignorant of that when I posted the article, and I certainly dont condone what he is accused of promoting. Not at all.Krispy

I'm not all that big on quoting men, but I really-really like this one. "WE ARE APT TO SHUT OUR EYES AGAINST A PAINFUL TRUTH...FOR MY PART, I AM WILLING TO KNOW THE WHOLE TRUTH;TO KNOW THE WORST; AND TO PROVIDE FOR IT." ---- Patrick HenryI almost wanted it for a signature on a forum, but I like God's Words better... but this quote fits in quite well with accepting God's Words that we find are "Hard Truths".No Krispy, that guy you posted is Not anti-semitic. He just happens to know, there's some big bad guys in every group.And I know you only posted it, because of "The Bill" being passed. :-( That Pastor isn't who I'd follow, because he's a "gun-toting-take-back-America-patriot-type" ... but it should have been more than obvious that you were posting The Bill and not the pastor.But when people get scared, they kill the messenger. Don't forget that. 'Fear' will cause 'christians' to "turn other Christians in". That's what our dearest Jewish brother Richard Wurmbrand said.Shalom !!!

Your all wrong on this. I'm sorry to put it so blunt, but the "Reverend" Ted Pike is a Jew hater and baiter, there's no two ways about it.You can quote, misquote Scripture all you want, but there it is.go to his website http://www.truthtellers.org/and start reading.I'll ignore your patronizing tone, but I don't know what you mean when you wrote: They had their hand in the Holocaust too bro who would that be sis?

that want to shut us bible thumpers up you're a 'bible thumper' are ya?what happened to being a follower of Jesus?the only thing a "bible thumper" is good for is.....well.....thumping a bible.

Krispy,you wrote:Dont label me a Nazi who labeled you a nazi?I didn't, I just asked if you did due dilligence, thats all.Ted Pike can regurgitate and vomit up any warmed over Jew baiting rhetoric he wants in America, anybody can. You can go up to Haydn Lake in Idaho, and attend the Aryan Nations tent meeting, and they'll tell you all you want to know about the "worldwide zionist plot to dominate the the banking industry", and how "Jews dominate Hollywood"...all this kind of rhetoric is on Pike's website. You can go up to Haydn Lake and see how "American Patriots" who are in the "Christian Identity church" testify how they love Jesus and hate the Jews.A lot of guys use the provisions of the Lord to dress up their own political and carnal ambitions.

Neil, I pray your "weekend retreat" helps.That's about all I can say at this point.And for Krispy's defense, he only posted about a 'Bill' and provided the Bill # and all, and it had nothing to do with that Pastor, but for some reason, you're just staying on that. He even tried to explain that to you, but your a Jew today but Catholic tomorrow and just confusing me more than I've ever been by anyone.You don't "research" anything you're throwing out at Krispy, you just go on and on.Didn't you see where this Pike guy calls the real Jewish people "God's Chosen People" ?Yeeesh.This all is very disheartening and disquieting.Krispy doesn't hate Jews, I sure as life can't hate Jews. He just posted a Bill that passed through congress, but you're telling him to go Idaho to cultists.Oh Lord. Have a good weekend Neil. I hope.

Krispy, maybe this may help. Then again, maybe Beverly's been to Idaho too. :-(http://www.cwfa.org/articledisplay.asp?id=9069&department=CFI&categoryid=papers

I've recovered and got my breath back.to Grannie Annie by Neilgin1 on 2005/10/4 19:57:12Your all wrong on this. I'm sorry to put it so blunt, but the "Reverend" Ted Pike is a Jew hater and baiter, there's no two ways about it.You can quote, misquote Scripture all you want, but there it is.go to his website http://www.truthtellers.org/and start reading. Show me where on this thread, did I "misquote Scripture" and then read this below, because you are now a "false accuser" on two or three accounts.Quote:{from} WHO ARE “GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE”?By Rev. Ted PikeMay we conclude, then, that the church of Jesus Christ is now the complete inheritor of the promises given Abraham, and that God is finished with the unbelieving nation of Israel? Absolutely not.CHRIST WILL HAVE RIGHTEOUSNESS FROM THE JEWS Scripture, especially in the Old Testament, teaches in hundreds of instances that, despite the apostasy of Israel, God will someday be honored and obeyed by a predestined believing remnant of Jews. Some passages are: Isaiah 4:4, 10:20, 14:3, 31:12, 51:17, 52:1-4, 64:9-10 Jeremiah 3:22-24, 30:8, 33:6,8, 50:20 Ezekiel 11:19-20, 16:41-42, 39:22, 44:23 Joel 2:18-20 Zephaniah 2:7, 3:11-20 One third of Jewry and their proselytes will, out of great tribulation, repent and turn to their true Messiah at his Second Coming. (Ezek. 5:12; Zech. 13:8) It is with this coming remnant in mind that Paul informs us that, (in the present tense) to them “belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the temple service, and the promises.” (Rom. 9:4)FUTURE BLESSINGS ON THE REMNANT Let’s consider the spiritual inheritance that this predestined remnant possesses, a legacy awaiting full activation when Christ re-gathers them to Palestine and begins his millennial reign. First, the remnant possesses the promise of “the adoption as sons.” Millions of Jews, though presently rejecting Christ, have been foreknown by Christ to someday be “adopted as sons” through repentance. Second, the remnant possesses “the glory”. The Shekinah glory that descended on Moses, the tabernacle, and the prophets, etc. - is promised to descend once again upon the remnant. The Holy Spirit will be poured out upon them. (Joel 2:28) Third, the remnant possesses “the covenants.” These include the right to possess Canaan land in a physical, literal way. Old Testament scripture is emphatic that title to the physical land of Israel belongs to those of the physical seed of Abraham, who also do his works of faith. (Ezek 47:14) This covenant was not made to the Gentile church. When this remnant at last gives Christ the same obedience that “God’s chosen people” gave him under Joshua and Ezra, then they will have divine approval to occupy the Holy Land. During the last 2,000 years no generation of Jews has given Christ such obedience. As a result, scripture forbids them to re-occupy a land dedicated to faith, obedience and holiness. Fourth, the remnant possesses the “giving of the law” and the “temple services.” Even though Hebrews in the Old Testament rarely fulfilled his law perfectly, God will someday have obedience from the Jewish remnant and their posterity. This will be through faith, but also by perfect keeping of the Mosaic law. To them is entrusted the privilege to facilitate the temple service during the millennium. (Ezek. 40-48) Fifth, the remnant possesses “the promises.” These are the wealth of prophetic assurances that, despite the depths of apostasy Israel’s evil leaders have led the Jewish people into, someday, when they repent, God will fulfill all Old Testament prophesies concerning national redemption and blessing under Jesus Christ. At that time, Paul tells us, Isaiah 59:20 will be fulfilled: “The Deliverer (Jesus) will come from Zion and will remove ungodliness from Jacob.” (Rom. 11:26) That promise was not fulfilled, in the national sense that Isaiah prophesied it, by Christ’s first coming. Instead, Paul, writing twenty-three years after Christ’s first coming, anticipated that day. That will be a time when not just a few token Jews will believe on Christ, but “all Israel will be saved.” (Rom. 11:26) At present, that could amount to as many as 6 million Jews.RESURRECTING DRY BONES Clearly, nearly 2,000 years of Jewry have died in rejection and unbelief in Christ. Such past generations have not proven to be God’s chosen people. Instead, if they have believed the Talmud’s false testimonies against Christ - that he was a bastard (Sanh. 106b), a deceiver of his people (Sanh. 43a), and is now in hell (Git. 56b-57a) – then they have been of the synagogue of Satan. They have died in their sins. Yet, the prophet Ezekiel assures us that someday the dry bones of the remnant will be resurrected (Ezek. 37). Out of the spiritual barrenness of Talmudic Judaism and the terror of the great tribulation, Christ will spiritually gather their bones together. He will spiritually attach sinews and muscles, clothing them with skin, and raising them up to stand in faith as a mighty, militant remnant before him. {end quote}(Thanks for making me go look at his website Neil.)

Whoa whoa whoa... everyone chill out. Neil, I know you didnt call me a Nazi, and I wasnt directing that comment at you. It was a general comment to everyone reading this that if this pastor is a Jew hater, then obviously I do not wish to be associated with him.However, concerning the TOPIC of this thread, the information I posted is accurate, and is worthy of discussion. But unfortunately it got lost in the shuffle. Thats a shame. While we're over here in the corner arguing about what some man believes... we are losing our rights as American citizens. This thread is about the information I posted, not the source. But at this point, I guess no one cares. I gave 8 years of my life protecting our freedoms and willing to die so that forums like this could exist, so that Glenn Beck AND Phil Donahue could have a voice, so that people in this country could practice whatever religion they wanted to (whether I agree with them or not).... and now it seems to be in jepordy and no one cares.Krispy

Krispy, from now on, no matter what the issue, you're on your own.Between all of your whoas, did you see this http://www.cwfa.org/articledisplay.asp?id=9069&department=CFI&categoryid=papersTake care.

Krispy, from now on, no matter what the issue, you're on your own.*sigh* ... I cant win. Nevermind.Cya...Krispy

I don't have the background you have, it seems you have been standing up for free speech for many yearsI was in the Marines, thats all I meant when I said I spent 8 years defending peoples right to free speech. In reality I defended the entire Bill of Rights, and the Constitution of the United States. But no one needs to thank me... I only did my duty.By the way... Grannie Annie deserves some credit on this thread. She stuck to her guns and came along side me on this thread, and I said "no one cares" when obviously she did. This was simply a slip on me, I didnt mean to slight her, if she feels I did.Krispy

Thank you for your kind wishes regarding my "retreat". The love you exude warms me, heartens me, and just plain feels good. A truly great witness.Krispy, iffin you read this, I PRAY for the day where Bibles are made illegal as well as public proclaimation of the Gospel. On that day, we seperate the true followers of Jesus from the pretenders.

For a long time, I have not been a fan of democracy, but at last I can see - almost for the first time - that those who promoted it were never in favour of the majority being right with God. Had they been, then a theocracy would have suited them. Wresting biblical truth from the legal system over a long period has ensured that those who do not wish to be governed by God or judged by Him, are not troubled by such considerations in this life.As never before, I suspect, Christians are going to have to know why they believe what they believe and in this respect, I think it is hardest to understand qualities like meekness, gentleness, longsuffering, goodness, peace, faithfulness - basically the fruit of the Spirit. We really have to KNOW what it is we're prepared to die for - not to kill for - but to die for.John 421 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and in truth.25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am. Do you know what you worship?

Hi Chris,Thanks for the exposition of the US position. I've heard it alluded to but without enough context. I don't have a problem with separation of Church and State. I think the problem Christians face, is in deciding where their loyalties should lie, when conflict arises between the theocracy which they necessarily embrace in Christ, and whatever is passing for secular national government at the time.In the UK, Tony Blair made much of his Christian credentials in the run-up to his first election win and I'm sure this swayed many who would never have voted for a socialist (atheistic) agenda, otherwise. However, once in power, all the Christian ideals such as the value of vocation, a job well-done to please the Master, and not seeking to be elevated above one's fellows, were systematically undermined by a policy of making money the sole reward for success. Simultaneously, the hestitation of previous governments to encourage homosexuals not to make this public, was officially abandoned along with other constraints. These two policies alone, are either a realistic recognition that only Christians need hold to scriptural principles, meaning the majority don't need to, or, they have done irreparable damage to the Christianised culture which held them in abeyance.While everyone is feeling comfortable over here, letting their sin hang out unashamedly, assumptions about what is known of God and His ways - by received tradition from a previous generation - have well and truly bitten the dust in the last 15 years. It really is a wake-up call to understand what is the difference between living Christianity and living in a culture which acknowledges Christian principles only as one of a range of options and certainly not compulsory to comply with or adopt.