RICK WARREN'S YOUTH PASTOR ASSOCIATED WITH EASTERN MEDITATIVE PRACTICES

Now we know this, what do we do?

Have the youth pastor or Rick Warren made any comments about the accuzations yet? I don't exactly look at Warren to be a spiritual leader to depend on, anyway, which would bring his organization into question. Just curious about how they're playing this.Grace and Peace...

While this is certainly a horrific revelation, and I have never been a fan or a proponent of Warren, Fields, or their Purpose Driven Empire - I did find the fact that they label contemplative prayer as being an eastern new age practice. I certainly do not condone the other things being taught i.e. labyrnth walks, mantras, etc... Contemplative prayer, when done correctly and biblically, is a wonderful thing used by the likes of Wesley, Guyon, Fenelon, Sundar Singh, and many of the great giants of history. This aside, however, how tragic!!!Burning,jeff

From an older post, regarding the same....http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/PressReleasekenblanchard.htm

Thank-you for posting this, Krispy.You are right, we are supposed to expose the falsedoctrines and everything that does not line up with the Word of God.God Bless you.Nellie :-)

Just for a bit of relaxtion, and also for another look at this....contemplative prayer practices where you say a word over and over again to put yourself into what Youth Specialties says is a "semi-conscious state,"' she states. 'None of these practices are in God's Word.' To maybe broaden things a little, there is this scripture in Joshua 1:8 from the KJVThis book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success. The word 'meditate' in the Hebrew means to murmur (in pleasure or anger); by implication to ponder: - imagine, meditate, mourn, mutter, roar, X sore, speak, study, talk, utter.I think that if you would had to do that day and night you would more than likely enter into the above mentioned state. 8-)

Something to be wary of in my view.The false gospel has to be exposed for what it is and what it's not... Thanks brother.

I'm not sure how to say it, but just because a word in the Bible has different definitions, does it mean that all are acceptable. Now, there's a big difference between meditating: contemplating god's Law day and night, and meditating: the eastern philosophy of it. I don't believe meditation to be something that we should go near, simply if for no other reason than the fact that it doesn't come from God. It's much the same that I don't participate in a seance to ask what hell is like. Some things, as harmless as they might seem or sound, can be a gateway or an invitation for things we shouldn't mess with.Grace and Peace...

groh_frog wrote:Now, there's a big difference between meditating: contemplating god's Law day and night, and meditating: the eastern philosophy of it. Great tell me about it? I was not aware that meditating had anything to do with philosophy in so far as it is a vehicle to 'hear the spirit within'. I don't believe meditation to be something that we should go near, simply if for no other reason than the fact that it doesn't come from God.Well that premise is obviously based upon your initial statement, so talk to me. ...as harmless as they might seem or sound, can be a gateway or an invitation for things we shouldn't mess with. Do you care or anyone care to try and unpack what the problem is.Just to settle this line of thinking down, the thing that sets christians apart from the rest of the lot, is not the doing or not doing of certain things, but their love for one another and God.Love God and do as you please. St Augustine paraphrased

Yes, I'm also pretty curious about what they have to say about this and what Rick Warrens stand is on this.

Yoga might be a problem, but "contemplative prayer" as normally understood in the context of spiritual formation has hardly anything to do with eastern meditative practices. In absence of clear and unambiguous references to the material in question, it is really hard to comment.

Well I don't think that contemplative prayer is completely eastern either but the fact remains that I wouldn't be surprised if some eastern thought and religion is taught. I have read many of Rick's sermons and if there is a posterboy for the -- "Gospel for Me" message it is him and that kind of message is going ot be very introspective. I think Keith Green would probably hand him both his tracts on what's wrong with the gospel and smile. ;-) The fact remains that Rick Warren's gospel allows for a little ecclecticism in it and it drives me nuts. I really can't stand the whole purpose driven things becasue it seems to me that if one is 'born again' the fact that there is a purpsoe to life would be obvious.Blessings.

Well, maybe back to the basics of the question. What exactly is he teaching in reference to eastern meditative practices?I agree, that contemplative prayer isn't bad- it's what prayer's all about. Listen to Zac Poonen's "Learning the Fear of God", and he'll talk a bit about it.What I understand eastern meditation to be, is a process in which you clear your mind, and think of nothing. You shut off conscious thought, and that brings you closer to an "enlightened self". It's refering to the idea that we are "nothing and everything", like Buddhism teaches.Now, listening for God's voice while we pray is what prayer's all about. It's not much of a conversation if it all goes one way.But again, what exactly is he teaching? Grace and Peace...

Sir_Edward,Just because you can't stand Warren's teachings does not mean every single allegation is true.groh_frog's question is valid:What exactly did they teach about Eastern meditative practices? Any quotes?Sam

Agent,First of all I didn't say it was necessarily true, I simply said I wouldn't be surprised.Rick Warren has compromised a lot of what Christ said about the gospel in his preaching for the sake being -- 'seeker sensitive'. When you make such compromises it shouldn't be surprising that you will make others. Everything is done for acceptance not for truth. His main influences seems to be Robert Schuller and his gospel that sells. If this is the case we certainly do not want to offend someone that has an eastern view of religion now do we?http://www.myfortress.org/RickWarren.html is a good link. Plus there are many more. I particularly like this part:In an interview with Time Magazine March 29, 2004, Rick has this to say, "I'm translating the truth into 21st century language, and evidently a lot of people are listening." He's convinced that the nation is on the verge of a spiritual awakening, as people seek fulfillment they don't get in fast-track jobs and can't buy with gold cards. "The culture is asking, 'How do I fill this hole in my heart?'" he says. "I think religion has the answer."Religion has the answer? Is that what the Bible teaches? I thought Jesus is the answer? I thought Jesus is the only way to heaven? Religion is in fact the Devil's greatest tool! There are billions of people in "religion" on their way to hell thinking everything is ok! How could "America's most influential" preacher deny Jesus to Time Magazine and their millions of readers? Would it offend unchurched Harry and Mary to say that Jesus is the answer and that He is the, "Way, the Truth, and the Life (John 14:6)?"In an article from the USA today Rick Warren claims that Mormonism is just another Christian denomination rather than a false religion: "Yet Warren's pastor-training programs welcome Catholics, Methodists, Mormons, Jews and ordained women. I'm not going to get into a debate over the non-essentials. I won't try to change other denominations."Rick Warren says, "You must decide who you're trying to reach, identify their preferred style of music and then stick with it." For example the Modesto Bee reports: "Warren's emphasis on approachable Christianity is reflected at Saddleback, where worshippers can choose from nearly two dozen services that feature different styles of live music, from heavy metal to reggae to hula." Listen to the words of Charles Spurgeon regarding this method of reaching unbelievers: "Dear friends, we know that souls are not won by music, if they were it would be time for preachers to give way to opera singers." I don't know if the current allegation is true, but I wouldn't be surprised given all the other things Rick has accepted for the sake of the 'gospel'.Sorry, but compared to some of the other preachers here at this site Rick is a pitiful excuse for a preacher.Blessings.

Sir_Edward,I was not even defending Warren. I was merely asking for the exact quotes and their respective contexts for the allegations concerning Eastern meditative practices and Warren's youth pastor.Thus far I have seen none of that in this thread.

Agent,I understand you were not defending him but I think the answer is there because the issue seems to be clear to the parents.Here is the article in total:http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/9/292005a.aspNow if I am looking at it then the thing that probably stands out is the Yoga thing. I think that it is well documented that yoga is a door to easterm mysticism:Yoga: This is one of the six major Hindu philosophical systems to be followed in order to obtain union (yoga) with the Ultimate, the Great All-pervading Soul. Self-realization Fellowship advocates practice of disciplined Kriya Yoga as the path to realization of the good within, the true self. http://wri.leaderu.com/wri-table1/mysticism.html is where I got it from.I think the very fact that some of these things are practiced would cause anyone concern.Blessings.

Sir_Edward,Your first link is not helpful because all the allegations are made by critics without reference. They are all claims made by a Cathy Mickels. Until I see firsthand references, I am unwilling to make the judgement.Your second link is only relevant if those claims were substantiated.It is also important to note that the group in question is not directly related to Rick Warren and his associate pastors. The "association" here is rather loose, in that Doug Fields happens to be one of the featured speakers at a conference sponsored by this group (I might add that: no one here has yet presented concrete evidence to prove the allegations against this group).That is very, very far from connecting the teaching of Eastern Meditative Practices with Rick Warren!

I must have missed something but there is a lot in Rick Warren's Purpose Driven Life that is definitely feeding the dark side.Why do we need all the add~ons when we have "Jesus"This link, should give you a few indicators as to what sort of things have been mixed into the broth. Link

Agent,I only posted the first link because i hate it when peole only give me part of it. The second definition was for what yoga is.Now so far i haven't been able ot find where the conference is sponsoring yoga and eastern meditation but here is an interesting link that details more of Cathy Mickels claims.http://www.earnedmedia.org/mickels0921.htmIt is from the Christian Communication network and news service.The questions is -is this true and to what extent it Rick's youth pastor involved in promoting or teaching it -- can't find it -- yet.aeryck,Yeah I noticed some of the things Rick preaches as inclusiveness with a lot of compromise about the truth. Not surprising when the issue is growing a church instead of purifying it.Blessings.

On the May 2005 issue of Christianity Today magazine's back cover is a full page ad advertising the "Leadership Summit 2005 - August 11-13". This seminar was sponsored by Willow Creek church, led by Bill Hybels. On the speakers roster is Bill Hybels, Rick Warren, Mosa Sono, Eleanor Josaitis, Curtis Sliwa, Ken Blanchard, John Maxwell, Coleen Barrett, Jack Groppel, Henry Cloud and Kenneth Ulmer. I do not know much about most of these people but Ken Blanchard has been identified as a New Age guru. More details of this can be found in the link posted above. Just thought you might want to know.ginnyrose

Sir_Edward,...here is an interesting link that details more of Cathy Mickels claims. It is from the Christian Communication network and news service.This link is not helpful either - it is not a news release by "Christian Communication Network"; because CCN is a news service where users can send their own news releases. That's why they have this disclaimer: "Issuers of news releases and not the Christian Communication Network are solely responsible for the accuracy of the content."Well, the person who send the release is Cathy Mickels, and the release is about the statements of none other than Cathy Mickels. And there is no evidence apart from her own claims within the release!In fact, come to think of it, the original link in the first post basically quotes the same Cathy Mickels. I wouldn't rely on one person's unsupported words as primary source.So until I see concrete evidence, I will be reluctant to accept any of the claims within this thread that attempts to connect Rick Warren with eastern meditative practices.

I do not know much about most of these people but Ken Blanchard has been identified as a New Age guruI have heard Blanchard referred to as a "new age leader" a few times in the forum. I don't know much about him myself, but I do remember his book "The One Minunte Manager." From his website he seems more like a business leadership consultant...(edit: then a pop-spiritual guru.) What is the reason to classify Blanchard as a New Age guru? Just curious.MC

Here's a bit morehttp://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/management/blanchard.htm

Thanks Mike,It seems, from those quotes and references, that Blanchard bills himself as a "motivational" business consultant with with a "spiritual" perspective on business. I think it is interesting how Warren is being admired by the Fortune 500 in America. Big business C-level marketing and management gurus are turning to "spiritual" leaders such as Warren and Blanchard for organizational ideas. It's getting harder and harder to tell big church and big business apart. They use the same "strategic expansion" vocabulary and shape identical visions for their organizations...though their products and services may vary. MC

Agent,I hear what you are saying on this particular issue but the point seems to be by all concerned that 'what does light have to do with darkness'. Ken Blanchard and Rick are definitely tighter than anyone with real faith would like. I think what Cathy others are asking is 'why should there be a New Age type at a Christian Youth conference in the first place?' and it is legitimate question. Blessings.

I think what Cathy others are asking is 'why should there be a New Age type at a Christian Youth conference in the first place?' and it is legitimate question. It is only "legitimate" if allegations of those "New Age connection" are true. You can't just trust an article that cooks up a few unproven allegations and remote "evil" connections to show how evil a person is. It is Doug Fields from Saddleback, not Rick Warren, who was the speaker of this conference referred to in the first post. This conference was Christian in orientation, the only alleged problem is that there were some (unproven) allegations regarding one of its sponsors.Critics will never fail to find guilt by association. If one is out there to find an "evil association," I guarantee you will find it. Even godly men like Billy Graham. My aunty's grandmother's neighbour's great grandmother is allegedly a witch. Now burn me on the stake, please! Because I am involved in witchcraft.

Agent,'What fellowship has light with darkness?'Sorry, at least their concerns are legitimate. My problem with Rick isn't this anyway -- it is his brazen use of corporate methods to bring about church growth where beleivers are shollow and self centered. 'seeker sensitive' -- find it in Scripture. I can't -- I do find my signature verses 2 Timothy 4:1-5 though but if there is a man itching ears these days with his sermons it is Rick Warren. 'It all about YOU" is a major theme of his. I rather listen to Ray Comfort, Ravenhill and Tozer, Thank You. God Bless the Street Preachers who do not water down the gospel for the sake of growing numbers.I agree there are a lot of holes in this particular story but it may very well be that they will be proven true in some measure later. I simply said I wouldn't be surprised given some of his other conections to false teachings.Blessings.

I normally do not post on other communities boards, but this particular topic has intrigued me. As a person who is pretty in tune with the "emergent" movement that you all are speaking of, I find the response from most of you to be a real eye opening revelation at just how far the chasm is in the body.There is a huge movement afoot in the Church to reclaim the tradition and heritage of our early church fathers (1st, 3rd, 5th century act...) that has been pushed out of our memories by modern evangelical church practices.I had to laugh at how some of you deemed "repetitive" prayer as from Satan? It shows a very clear lack of worship traditions from the very earliest days of our faith. The desert fathers developed what was called "the Jesus Prayer" and it was practiced for centuries..it is a beautiful meditative time with God.If interested do a google search "the Jesus prayer" and you will see what some of these nasty evil practices of the dark (so you say) is about.

http://www.concentric.net/~Cosmas/jesus_prayer.htmThe Prayer goes back to the New Testament and has had a long, traditional use. The method of contemplation based upon the Holy Name is attributed to St. Simeon, called the New Theologian (949-1022). Now I wish this was surpising but as with all these claims of long standing ritualistic prayer is that they claim it has always been around but then the only person they start with is 900 years after the fact that turned it into a meditative practice. This is very typical for these claims but the reality is that you never see any record of it earlier in the writing of the fathers themselves -- 'it always has existed, but it is S 'so and so' from 750 AD that made it official. The truth is that St. 'so and so' is the one that created the tradition for it and then claims that he didn't but he is mearly following the traditions of others. Whatever and so much for Jesus own teaching in Matthew 6 on this issue and 'vain repetitions'. even if they were doing this back then they were dishonoring Christ's own teaching on the subject.

Maybe the issue is you have a wrong understanding of what is a "vain repetition"? The key is the "vain", not the repetition.Repeating something to truly honor God and to connect with the Holy Spirit inside you is not "vain". It can simply be one (of many) spiritual exercises that can be used by a follower to build a spiritual discipline.In fact you do it, and probably do not even realize it. How many times have you sung the hymn "Amazing Grace"? Probably dozens if not hundreds of times (depends on your age I guess). You repeat these words over and over again; lifting them to God...yet at its core you are simply repeating words over and over and over (same old words of the hymn) to God.This is a repetition of words...yet it is not a vain repetition.The "vain" is if it is done with a wrong attitude other then to truly connect with the Father, if not, it is simply vanity....of no avail.