Recently, a person ask me what the difference was between soul and spirit. I've always been under the impression that soul is who we are as an individual or that that makes us different from one another.The definition of spirit seems to be a little more tricky in that there is obviously a good spirit and there are bad spirits. When I looked up the word spirit I got the definition life. When it comes to the Holy Spirit life makes sense, but life doesn't make any sense when describing an evil spirit.It seems to me that spirit is a drive or motive. The spirit that quickens a person, whether to do good or whether to do evil.Does anyone have anything to add to this opinion and is there a better definition? I would like to listen and learn.In Christ,GaryE
body, soul, and spirit
The Distinction between Soul and Spirit From Fausset's CommentaryNote on Hebrews 4:12. "EVEN TO THE DIVIDING ASUNDER OF SOUL AND SPIRIT "-i.e., reaching througheven to the separation of the animal soul (lower part of man's incorporeal nature, the seat of animal desires, which he has in common with the brutes; c.f. the same Greek, I Corinthians 2:14, ` the natural [animal-souled] man', Jude 19) from the spirit (the higher part of man, receptive of the Spirit of God, and allying him to heavenly beings). " AND OF THE JOINTS AND MARROW "-rather (reaching even to) " both the joints (so as to divide them) and marrow ".Christ " knows what is in man " (John 2:25): so His Word reaches as far as to the most intimate and accurate knowledge of man's most hidden parts, feelings, and thoughts, dividing, i.e., distinguishing what is spiritual from what is carnal and animal in him, the spirit from the soul: so Proverbs 20:27As the knife of the Levitical priest reached to dividing parts, closely united as the joints of the limbs, and penetrated to the innermost parts, as the marrows (the Greek is plural), so the word of God divides the closely joined parts of man's immaterial being, soul and spirit, and penetrates to the innermost parts of the spirit.The clause (reaching even to) " both the joints and marrow " is subordinate to the clause " even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit ".... An image (appropriate in addressing Jews) from the literal dividing of joints, and penetrating to, so as to open out, the marrow, by the priest's knife, illustrating the previously mentioned spiritual " dividing of soul and spirit ", whereby each (soul as well as spirit) is laid bare and " naked " before God; this view accords with v.13.Evidently " the dividing of the soul from the spirit " answers to the " joints " which the sword, when it reaches unto, divides asunder, as the " spirit " answers to the innermost " marrow ". " Moses forms the soul, Christ the spirit. The soul draws with it the body; the spirit draws with it both soul and body." . . . The Word's dividing and far-penetrating power has both a punitive and a healing effect." DISCERNER OF THE THOUGHTS "-Greek, " capable of judging the purposes ", " INTENTS "-rather, conceptions "[Crellius] ; " ideas " [Alford]. As the Greek for " thoughts " refers to the mind and feelings, so that for " intents ", or rather, " mental conceptions " refers to the intellect.NOTE ON JUDE 19. " Sensual " (lit. "animal-souled ") as opposed to the " spiritual ", or " having the Spirit ".It is translated " the natural man " in I Corinthians 2:14. In the three-fold division of man's being, body, soul and spirit, the due state in God's design is, that " the spirit ", which is the recipient of the Holy Spirit, uniting man to God, should be first, and should rule the soul, which stands intermediate between the body and spirit; but in the ... NATURAL man the spirit is sunk into subserviency to the animal-soul, which is earthly in its motives and aims. The " CARNAL " sink somewhat lower, for in these the flesh, the lowest element and corrupt side of man's bodily nature, reigns paramount." Not having the Spirit ": In the animal and natural man the " spirit ", his higher part, which ought to be the receiver of the Holy Spirit, is not so; and therefore, his spirit not being in its normal state, he is said not to have the spirit. (Cf. John 3: 5, 6.)Note on I THESSALONIANS 5:23. " Spirit, soul and body. .. entire." It refers to man in his normal integrity, as originally designed.... All three, spirit, soul and body, each in its due place constitute man " entire " The " spirit " links man with the higher intelligences of heaven, and is that highest part of man which is receptive of the quickening Holy Spirit (I Corinthians 15:47). In the " unspiritual " the spirit is so sunk under the lower animal soul ... that such are termed " animal " (English Version sensual, having merely the body of organized matter, and the soul the immaterial animating essence), having not the Spirit.Note on I CORINTHIANS 2:14 " Natural man ": lit. a man of animal soul. As contrasted with the spiritual man,he is governed by the animal soul, which overbears his spirit, which latter is without the Spirit of God (Jude 19). So the animal (A.V. natural) body, or body led by the lower animal nature (including both the mere human fallen reason and heart), is contrasted with the Spirit quickened body (see I Corinthians 15:44-46). The carnal man (the man led by the bodily appetites, and also by a self-exalting spirit, estranged from the divine life) is closely akin: so too the " earthly ". Devilish or demon-like, led by an evil spirit (James 3:15), is the awful character of such a one in its worst type... .NOTE ON I CORINTHIANS 2:15. " He that is spiritual," lit. " the spiritual (man) ". In v.14 it is " A (not the as in A.V.) natural man". The spiritual is the man distinguished above his fellow men as he in whom the Spirit rules. In the unregenerate, the spirit which ought to be the organ of the Holy Spirit (and which is so in the regenerate),* is overridden by the animal soul, and is in abeyance, so that such a one is never called " spiritual ".NOTE ON I CORINTHIANS 3:1. " And I ... " i.e., as the natural (animal) man cannot receive, so I also could not speak unto you the deep things of God, as I would to the spiritual; but I was compelled to speak to you as ...to "MEN OF FLESH. . . ."The former (lit. fleshly) implies men wholly of flesh, or natural. Carnal or "fleshly ", implies not that they were wholly natural or unregenerate, but that they had much of a carnal tendency, e.g., their divisions. Paul had to speak to them as he would to men wholly natural ... not withstanding their conversion.NOTE ON JAMES 3:15 " Sensual," lit. animal-like: the wisdom of the " natural " man ... DEVILISH in its origin ... and also in its character, which accords with its origin.Some " Soulish " Counterfeits of " Spiritual " realitiesEvery genuine spiritual phenomenon has its soulical counterpart, e.g., the love of truth, or love viewed as a spiritual phenomenon, differs essentially from the soulical counterfeit. Love, as consisting in sentiment and the strong stirrings of affection, is a mere fleshly principle. It shuns suffering, it courts worldly enjoyment and consideration, it exhibits itself in the strength of the domestic and social attachments, and in its most refined form, takes a deep interest in alleviating the miseries and promoting the comforts of the family of man. All this may exist with deep rooted hatred to the truth.Love as a Divine principle and spiritual phenomenon, is distinguished by properties exactly the opposite of all this. It is love to God and is the result of our knowing that God hath first loved us (I John 4:19).While soulical love pretends to cherish attachment to the Creator through the medium of the creature, spiritual love goes out to the creature through the medium of the Creator. Soulical love would, for the promotion of the apparent good of the creature, sacrifice at any time the truth of the Creator, whereas spiritual love rejoices to know that through the truth of the Creator the real good of the creature is secured and promoted.Spiritual love is emphatically love to the truth, and love to others for the truth's sake. Soulical love appearing to be spiritual, may be detected to be what it is by this test, that the truth of God is always in its estimation secondary, whereas the essential feature of spiritual love is its supreme and exclusive attachment to the truth of God.The soulical nature of love professed often betrays itself in a great anxiety to reconcile the Word of God with wellestablished human facts, and cogent human reasonings founded thereon, and this even at the expense of the Divine veracity being compromised and encroached on. The language of love which is Divine and spiritual, is " Let God be true, though every man should prove to be a liar ".
This previous post is from this great book:SOUL AND SPIRIT By Jessie Penn-Lewishttp://www.worldinvisible.com/library/jessiepenn-lewis/soulspirit/soulspirit.c.htm
Thanks Greg,I was going to re-ply that your Soul is your way of thinking and Spirit is life and who you are inside -- innerman/innerwomen.Thanks for the article and link.
Fausset's CommentaryExcellent quote. Graftedbranch
The definition of "spirit' in Greek is pnema, "breath" or 'breath of Life.The resurrected Lord Jesus "breathed into them saying "recieve the Holy Spirit" (John 20:21)God breathed into Adam the breath of Life and man became a living soul.Christ breathed into them the "Breath of God, the Holy Spirit" and His diciples became children of God with His Life.Our human spirit is the product of "God's breath". Whereas the Holy Spirit is God's Breath. The Holy Pnuma.God is Spirit. Our spirit is that organ within us which is akin to God and has the capacity to know God, to commune with God and to recieve God as Life (the Holy Pnema).To try to know colors by smelling them or hearing them is impossible. We can only know colors by using our eyes to see them. To try to see a sound is impossible. We need to use our ears to know sounds.In the same way, to Know God we must use our spirit. It is the organ which is designed by God to be attuned and akin to Him. Our spirit is our inner most being. It is the deepest part of our being. It is where God dwells within us when we believe into Christ.The unbeliever has a spirit but it is dead. He lives by the life of his soul. His mind, his will, and his emotions and is governed by the flesh. The believer's human spirit has been quickened, resurrected and indwelt by the "Pnema of God" The Spirit of Christ.We should breath this Holy Breath all the time by calling on the Lord. We should drink of this "well of water within us springing up to Eternal Life" whenever we are parched and thirsty. We should contact the Lord in our spirit every day as we pray and feed on His Word (My words are spirit and life). 'The Spirit Himself witnesses with our spirit that we are children of God ' (Romans 8:16)."The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brothers, Amen" (Galatians 6:18).Graftedbranch
I've been taught (if anyone has any other thoughts I would like to hear):Spirit- It is the God breathed part inside of you. When you are born again this is what comes alive. It is where the Spirit of God dwells inside you and bares witness with you.Soul- Your mind, will, and emotions.Body- Your physical being.When you are a sinner you try to please (usually) 1. your body 2. your soul (mind intellect ect.) and 3. your spirit which is dead to God.When you are born again a reversal takes place. Your spirit should be first (it is now alive to God), soul, and then body. Your spirit should be in control of your soul, which in turn is in control of your body. We should be full worshippers of God. We must worship God in spirit. Our soul must be filled with prayer and the Word and our body must be crucified i.e. a living sacrifice.
Here is a book I enjoyed.Spirit, Soul, and Body By Lester Sumrall
(if anyone has any other thoughts I would like to hear):Well, since I came to SI, having arrived thinking close to what you posted, I've changed my mind, mainly as a result of wrestling (yes, 'wrestling') with the issue of abortion (because I used to be a midwife and have seen both natural and induced kinds); and the answers which came from scripture when philologos expounded on 'soul' in the thread 'Questons of life and breath and Spirit' which I started. I'm not going to say everything I think, here, but summarise it to this:If the sin principle which Jesus died to destroy, resides in our flesh, and when God breathed into Adam He caused Adam not only to have a human spirit but also a soul, then the flesh has a lot more to do with both spirit and soul than I'd previously registered.If it is the death of the sin principle in us, (our flesh) which enables the Holy Spirit to come and dwell, He is dwelling in our flesh (our body). Of course He is - it's the temple of the Holy Spirit..... we know that.... :-) (1 Cor 6:19) It is in our flesh that we experience our life - yes, our SOUL life - our SOUL, which Jesus died to save, which in Psalm 23 we learn (even back then David could say) was being RESTORED. Now, under the influence of the Holy Spirit, the mind of the flesh (Eph 2:3'..in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath) (which I now do not think as previously, is my soul) is being renewed as well as my mind is being renewed, as I follow the leading of the Holy Spirit to live and walk in Him, and not fulfil the lust of the flesh, or, the lust of the mind of the flesh.The life which we lay down when we take up our cross, is our old man - the life the flesh used to live; we mortify that in our experience, by the enabling power of the Spirit, who works with our spirit and soul towards overcoming in all things, (through Jesus Christ who strengthens us). It is only from this perspective that I can make sense of the first great commandment - to love God with all my heart AND SOUL and mind and strength - that is, not just mental strength or my soul's hungering and thirsting, but physical strength, too - now made available by the life the Spirit which can QUICKEN my MORTAL BODY (Please forgive capitals. I'm not shouting----- honestly ;-) ) according to Romans 8:1111 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. (I've underlined mortal, because one can skim over this and assume it means something about a resurrection body..... but Paul is talking about life (not death) throughout the whole of this chapter.)
You also have to remember that we are "total" person. The spirit, soul, and body are distict but are so close together they are seeminly intertwined. Ex. A tree has 3 parts: Bark, pulp, and sap. You need all 3 to make a tree or it will not function. They are distict but are combined together.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:For me to think of the spirit as that which hears from God fits very well with my understanding. I still think of desire and motive as being the difference between a good spirit and a bad spirit. When the hearing is what is coming from God is a good spirit and that which is heard from the flesh, mind, the enemy etc. being a bad spirit.Obviously, we should be careful as to what voice we hear. 1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.Quickening is definitely the beginnings of life. Once, I read and old book that told how any abortion that was done after quickening was considered murder. When I used the word quickening, I was really trying to speak about the beginnings of things and not the beginnings of life. In other words, a beginning to do evil is a bad spirit. Our motives and desires when we hear from God will begin a quickening for life in us to do that which is right, but when our spirit hears and receives motives and desires that are of the flesh, this would be the beginnings of our doing evil. I was wrong to use the word quickening to do evil, though motives and desires are the beginnings of evil if followed through.In Christ,GaryE
God is spirit. (KJ says God is "a" Spirit where NAS says God is Spirit.) (John 4:24)Man is flesh. (No where in the bible does it say Man is a flesh.) (Genesis 6:3)Man has a spirit. (Job 32:8)An angel is a spirit. (Acts 23:9)Man is a living soul. (Genesis 2:7)Animals are living souls. (Genesis 9:10 *note: the word "creature" is the hebrew word for soul).Man has a body of flesh, but man is a soul. (The body of a man...Num 19:11) (In the body of his flesh...Colossians 1:22) (Matthew 10:28)Right now, we have a body of flesh, but in Heaven we will have a body of spirit. (1 Corinthians 15:44) We won't just have a spirit, we will be a spirit. Matthew 10:28 (KJ)And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.John 3:6 (KJ)That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.1 Corinthians 15:44 (KJ)It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.In love,Blake
Zechariah says: God streached forth the heavens and laid the foundation of the earth and formed the spirit of man within him.Our human spirit in this context is laid out to be in consequence and import comparable to the heavens and the earth.Our human spirit is the thing which separates us from the lower forms of life. Animals have a soul. they have a mind, a will, and they have emotions. They think, they dream, they love, they fear, they anticipate, they are living, beings with all the faculties of soul.But man is distinguished not only by 'superiour soulical powers, but by his spirit which is akin to God and designed by God to be His dwelling place in man.All the animals were created "after their kind". Only man was created in the image and likeness of God to be "after God's Kind.Only man has a spirit as well as a soul and a body.Man was created in the image of God as a glove is created in the image and likeness of a hand. We are created to be vessels of God. Our spirit is a vessel to recieve God and contain God and our soul is a vessel to express God in our humanity.We are designed to contain God and express His attributes in our human virtues.Graftedbranch
Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.This is the soul part, Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.Man at this time had not chosen a spirit because of who he believes in.Adam believed Eve and Eve believed Satan, even though it was a lie. In choosing to believe any one besides God, he became the spirit of that belief. Pro 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so [is] he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart [is] not with thee. If we have a spirit it is of spirit, that is why Adam now had the spirit of Satan, because he believed the lie. Now if we believe God about what He says about His Son, He then gives us the Spirit of His Son because we believe. This is new birth, and the believer now has the Spirit of Christ. Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit. Satan was a created being wanting to be God, Adam was a created being wanted to be as God.The two became one when Adam chose the lie. Jhn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.The soul is what died in Adam, Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.New birth, being Born Again is the believing God and not the Lie. Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Believe Satan and his lie, there is no God or you can be your own God and die in sin. Believe God about His Son and have new birth with the Spirit of Christ in you the Hope of Glory, and live.Both are the spirit of a man, of the sinner's believing the lie, the spirit of Satan and death.Or the son's of God believing God, the Spirit of Christ in you unto life and wisdom and righteousness, sanctification and redemption. Then: Act 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. In Christ: Phillip
Ecclesiastes 3:19For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same. As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity.
1 Sa 2:35 'But I will raise up for Myself a faithful priest who will do according to what is in My heart and in My soul; and I will build him an enduring house, and he will walk before My anointed always.Job 23:13"But He is unique and who can turn Him? And what His soul desires, that He does .Isaiah 42:1"Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My chosen one in whom My soul delights. I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the nations.Jeremiah 32:41"I will rejoice over them to do them good and will faithfully plant them in this land with all My heart and with all My soul.What is the difference between the soul of God and the spirit of God? Wondering....Blake
The Scriptures indicate that the body, soul and spirit are separate entities. The body is entirely composed of this world. The soul is spiritual, but greatly influenced and can be dominated by this world. The Spirit is of God only. The following Scripture applies.And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. I Thessalonians. 5:23.God does not need to have His Soul and Spirit separated because He is not earthly but heavenly. We need to have this separation because before regeneration (salvation), we are of our father the devil, because we believed the lie with Adam in the Garden. Sin then abounded to all mankind. The spirit of Satan is what rules our life before we are Born Again of the Incorruptable Seed of Christ that the Father gives Incorruptable Seed of Christ and His Spirit is now our Spirit and it will transform our minds to the Mind of Christ and then our mind can rule over our bodies. 1. Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.2. Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 3. Because man believed Satan our spirit became the spirit of whom we believe. The spirit of Satan is what ruled our lives, our soul-mind and our bodies of flesh. Proverbs 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.4. When we believe in Christ, the exchange is made by God the Father and the Seed of Jesus Christ is birthed in us, thus born again. We then have the Spirit of Christ in us and now His mind is renewing our mind to the Mind of Christ, by Our Teacher the Holy Spirit.Romans 12:1-2 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.5. That is why the Word (Christ) has to separate the spirit, soul and body. God is the only one who can separate soul and spirit.Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.Christ now is not separated in Soul, Spirit or Body, He is one with the Father, and we on resurrection morning will be the same. For the first time in our existence we will be complete. We know not what we will be but we know we will be like Him.In Christ: Phillip
What is the difference between the soul of God and the spirit of God? Soul technically speaking referes to "mind, will, and emotions. Spirit referes to the Essense. The Spirit of God is God's essense.For instance Paul says in 1 Cor. "whoso knows the thoughts of a man save the spirit of the man which is in him, even so, the thoughts of God no one knows but the Spirit who is from God. For the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God that we might know the things freely given to us..."God has thoughts, God has his feeling, God has His will. And these are communicated to us by His Spirit who indwells our regenerated human spirit.God is united to us by His Spirit in our regenerated human spirit as Paul says in 1 Cor. 6:17 He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit.God is Triune, Man is Tripartite. Man's spirit is not God's Spirit but are akin in nature. (Romans 8:16 The Spirit Himself witness with our spirit...) Man's spirit is his essense and the innermost part of his being which was deadened by the fall but made alive in Christ.Man's spirit is the place of the "Divine Indwelling". God regenerates us and indwells us in our spirit. He joines Himself and mingles Himself with our spirit to make us "one spirit" though they remain distinct yet together they are one spirit like tea in water makes one drink which we call a cup of tea.This is why when we come to the Bible we need more than just the exercise of our mind, our will, and our emotions, we need to exercise our spirit by calling on the Lord and praying to Him to fellowship with Him in His Word in order that we might recieve not just some knowlege of doctrines but we might be infused with Life and be strengthend to apprehend "with all the saints", and to have the eyes of our heart enlightened.Through the Word, the Spirit who is in our spirit will then spread and impart into us the mind of God, the feeling of God and the will of God. By this means we are renewed, and transformed into His image.Graftedbranch
Ezekiel 36:27 (NASB)"Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances."Do we have a Spirit that is in union with God's Spirit, much like a husband and wife become one flesh? Or did God put His Spirit into us, meaning that our Spirit is God's Spirit? Wondering....Blake
Dear Blake,I think of this verse as speaking to us in the New Covenant though it was obviously spoke to the Jews during the Old Covenant. Now until we come to God through Jesus we are absent of this Spirit and God says he will put his Spirit in us. I would like to hear what others speak about your questions.I accept the understanding that is in the post previous to yours. One thing that I hadn't considered till a few minutes ago is that the word spirit can be a noun or a verb. With that thought, for one to have spirit is an action word and is a verb. To be quickened is a verb. It does sound right to me that the word spirit in body, soul, and spirit is a noun. With the word Spirit being put in us I see the word being a noun also. With the word Spirit being in us I also think of being quickened and having action within our lives to do God's desires through us and this being a verb. With that word Spirit being in us I think of us having his desire and doing his will and the word spirit being a verb also.In Christ,GaryE
Do we have a Spirit that is in union with God's Spirit, much like a husband and wife become one flesh? Or did God put His Spirit into us, meaning that our Spirit is God's Spirit?We have both. Our spirit is in union with God's Spirit but not like a husband and wife because they do not have the capacity to coninhere or "mutually indwell" one another.Our spirit is in union with God's Spirit in the way that Tea is mingled with water to become one cup of tea.God's Spirit indwells our spirit. His Spirit resides in our spirit. His Spirit does not replace our spirit but we become "one spirit" as a husband and wife are One but in a deeper way and in the way of coninherence.That our two spirit's (God's and our spirit) are distinct is seen specifically in Romans 8:17 "The Spirit Himself (God's Spirit) witnesses with our spirit that we are children of God.When we are saved and regenerated our dead human spirit is resurrected and indwelt by the Divine Spirit so that we become one entity with two elements, the human and the Divine.God dwells in us and we dwell in God. Jesus in John 14 said, "In that day (when the Spirit comes) you will know that I am in My Father and you are in Me and I am in you.This is coinherence. We dwell in God and He dwells in us. And just as Christ as a man lived by the Life of His Father who was in Him. So we who partake of Christ live by His LIfe who is within us, dwelling in our spirit.Zacheriah says, "God streached forth the heavens and laid the foundation of the earth and formed the spirit of man within him. This is our human spirit. Our spirit is dead because of the fall. Adam had a human spirit but never had the divine Life within him because he never ate of the Tree of Life. But when he fell his spirit died and man became soulish, living by his own independant human Life apart from the Life of God.Today, when we beleive into Christ. our dead human spirit is resurrected and we are indwelt by the Spirit of the Crucified and resurrected Christ.I believe it is in Isiaih speaking of the New covenant it say, "a new spirit I will put in him and My Spirit I will put in him. These are two separate things.God renews our dead spirit and puts His Spirit within us. Our spirit is where He is.Graftedbranch
It does sound right to me that the word spirit in body, soul, and spirit is a noun. With the word Spirit being put in us I see the word being a noun also. With the word Spirit being in us I also think of being quickened and having action within our lives to do God's desires through us and this being a verb. With that word Spirit being in us I think of us having his desire and doing his will and the word spirit being a verb also.Brother Gary,In Thessalonians Paul says, "May your entire spirit and soul and body be preserved..." These three are nouns.In Hebrews 4 we are told that "the Word of God is living and active and sharper than any two edged sword dividing asunder soul and spirit, both joints and marrow able to dicern the thoughts and intentions of the heart...In this verse we are shown exactly first that spirit is used a a noun, not a verb and that it is comparable to the marrow of the joint.That is the soul is the joint and the spirit is the marrow. The Word divides the soul from the spirit like the priest's knife divides the joint from the marrow.Our spirit though the fall is deadened and is atrophied and we live by our soul life. But when we are regenerated our spirit is made alive and indwelt by the Divine Spirit. Through the Word the Spirit divides within us what is of our natural soulish nature and what is of the spirit so that practically we dicern our soul from our spirit which is our innermost being where the Spirit of God dwells.In secular terms we speak of having "spirit" meaning being animated, etc. But in the scritpures spirit is used as a noun speaking of our internal inner organ which is akin to God in nature and which is the place of His indwelling when we believe into Christ.Graftedbranch
Dear Graftedbranch,Yes, the word spirit or Spirit translated from Strongs number 4151 Pnyoo'-mah is translated as a noun whether used to speak of the spirit in man, or a spirit from the enemy, or the Spirit from God.Kenneth S Wuest in his Word Studies in the Greek New Testament says that it is not the dividing apart Soul and Spirit from one another, rather it is the piercing of or into the Soul and Spirit separately. I've always understood it to mean what you stated though.In either case, the Word is that what pierces soul and spirit or divides soul and spirit and the goal in doing this appears to cause us to labor to enter that rest and boldly enter the throne of grace. Laboring and entering are verbs. Maybe this is partly why I tend to think of spirit being and action word.I appreciate everyones posts on this subject.In Christ,GaryE
In secular terms we speak of having "spirit" meaning being animated,This is THE vital meaning of spirit. The spirit enlivens the body and the soul. Yes 'spirit' is a noun. The instrinsic characteristic quality of this entity is that it is capable of ministering life to our inanimate dust.At the Fall, it's instincts were turned from open fellowship with God and life, to secret fellowship with sinfulness and death. This is how it is that people find 'fellowship' with other spirits through selfish pursuits, spiritism, mediums and the worship of created things or beings.... their spirits are only dead in the sense of not being eligible for God's presence any more - unless through the blood of the Lamb 1 John 1:7.Our spirit though the fall is deadened and is atrophied and we live by our soul life.Our soul life is what experiences these other forms of 'fellowship' - by default, no matter (sometimes) how we try to cut ourselves off from them. It's only with the Holy Spirit comes to the individual and makes the death of Christ take effect in that person's life, that we begin to experience freedom from the old forms of fellowship - which of course we must consciously renounce.It is the Holy Spirit who works in our flesh to bring forth the life of the Son of God - to nurture the incorruptible Seed which we have received at new birth. By this, our soul is saved alive when it departs from the body.
This is THE vital meaning of spirit. The spirit enlivens the body and the soul. Yes 'spirit' is a noun. The instrinsic characteristic quality of this entity is that it is capable of ministering life to our inanimate dust.I like this word. But our soul has it's own life. Our soul life. Jesus said, "unless a man deny his soul life, take up his cross and follow Me he cannot be My deciple. For whoever will save his soul life shall lose it...Our soul life is just our natural life which is our soul, and it is an independant life from God. And this soul life is centered in Self. It relies on itself and expresses itself. All the powers of the soul are animated by Self. And all it can do is cultivate itself and express itself.Our soul life came to be through Adam's partaking of the tree of the knowlege of good and evil. Adam in partaking of it became an independant man living by his own fallen corrupted self centered life. And his spirit died "in the day you eat of it, you shall surely die". Every man has a spirit but it is dead and disfunctional. Man does not live by his dead spirit but by his soul life. He lives by his mind, his will, and his emotions. He has no capacity to know and express God because He is devoid of the Life of God.There are some in the various religions who tap into their spirit by asacetism and other practices but their spirit is deviod of the life of God. IT is only by redemption and regeneration that our spirit is made alive. And only by the Divine Life being imparted into our regenerated spirit are we made sons of God with His Life and Nature.And even after we are regenerated, because we have lived our whole life by our own soul, we continue to try to live the Christian Life and serve God by our natural soul life. We need daily the sanctifying Word which is living and active... to divide our soul from our spirit.Paul told the Corinthians that "the soulish man does not recieve the things of the Spirit of God..." God's way of leading us on is to apply the cross to our soul life and to strengthen us into our inner man that we may learn to deny our soul life and be strong in spirit to live by our spirit .The Spirit in our spirit transforms us and applies the liberating death of Christ to our soul life and enables us to live by the Life of God in our spirit.Graftedbranch
But our soul has it's own life.Not exactly. All of us have only one 'life'.The life of your soul is a function of the life of your body, which is enlivened by your spirit. The mention of dividing between soul and spirit, is true, yes, but, it is a poetic way of saying that by His word, God can pinpoint exactly what He wants in us. The scripture is not saying that God wants to separate our soul and spirit!! The reverse is true, rather, that He wants to make us WHOLE. Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened. If ever there was a picture of the inseparability of ingredients, it is this one - of bread-making. Yet, Jesus also said 'the kingdom of God is within you.Unless we embrace the truth that our inner man is essentially linked to our outer man (and now supposed to dominate the choices of our outer man), we will continue battling with feelings, thoughts, emotions, desires, ambitions - a whole battery of conflicting abstract tugs and pulls - when all that is necessary is for us to accept there can be a total integration of our body, soul and spirit, as we walk (literally, with our physical body) in the Holy Spirit, (therefore not fulfilling the lusts of the flesh - carnality), and thereby obeying (satisfying) the will of our Father in heaven. This is a wholeness in which the tripartite nature of man is not questioned, undermined, countered or resisted... rather, it is completed.
Unless we embrace the truth that our inner man is essentially linked to our outer man (and now supposed to dominate the choices of our outer man), we will continue battling with feelings, thoughts, emotions, desires, ambitions - a whole battery of conflicting abstract tugs and pulls - when all that is necessary is for us to accept there can be a total integration of our body, soul and spirit, as we walk (literally, with our physical body) in the Holy Spirit, (therefore not fulfilling the lusts of the flesh - carnality), and thereby obeying (satisfying) the will of our Father in heaven. This is a wholeness in which the tripartite nature of man is not questioned, undermined, countered or resisted... rather, it is completed.Unfortunately this is not the picture we have in the revelation of Scripture, nor is it the testimony of the Saints throughout all of church history. Sister, this is not my opinion, it is the Word of God and the teaching of the Apostles.We do intdeed have two lives. Our natural soul Life which we must deny, and the Life of God in our regenerated spirit. And the whole process of sanctification and growth is the process of the application of the Cross to our natural fallen Life and the infusion of the Resurrection Life of Christ transforming us, renewing us, and forming Christ within us. This alone is the New Testament revelation.Romans 8 lays it out for us. Our spirit is life because of rightousness, our soul is being renewed and transformed daily, and our body will be transfigured at Christ's comming.Until our bodies are transformed, they will remain a "body of sin and death" though we can, by the Spirit put to death the deeds of the body, and bring our bodies into subjection and enjoy the Lord's victorious resurrection Life. Our bodies will never be one with our spirit in this life, but always be the seat of the warfare which is waged between the flesh and the spirit.Romans 8:10,11 "But if Christ is in you,, though the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is life because of rightousness. And if the Spirit of the One who raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He will also give life to your mortal bodies through this same Spirit who indwells you."Romans 8:23 "And not only so, but we ourselves also, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan in ourselves, eagerly awaiting sonship, the redemption of our bodies"Graftedbranch.
What a very true and wonderful encouraging word... keep it coming!
Our bodies will never be one with our spirit in this life, but always be the seat of the warfare which is waged between the flesh and the spirit.This is a defeatest stance, is it not? If your body was dead, it wouldn't be warring against the spirit.... which is exactly Paul's point.Romans 8:10,11 "But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is life because of rightousness. And if the Spirit of the One who raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He will also give life to your mortal bodies through this same Spirit who indwells you."My point is, this is not theory. This is fact. The spirit enlivens the flesh (body) without re-awakening 'sin', if the death of Christ has been truly embraced at a spiritual level. After that, the body is free to pursue righteousness - under the control of the Holy Spirit.
The reason I chose the three measures of meal, is that it represents man.... and there can be no clearer word from the mouth of Jesus Himself, endorsing the truth of the integration of the life of the Spirit, into the body, inseparably. The human spirit is thus given the abundant life He promised in John 10.
This is a defeatest stance, is it not? If your body was dead, it wouldn't be warring against the spirit.... which is exactly Paul's point.This is not a defeatest stance at all. To say there is a war rageing is not a defeatest stance. To quite the fight and go home is a defeatest stance.This is simply the Truth of the situation as revealed in the Word of God and testified to by Apostles and saints.Christ has procured for us a complete salvation. Not a partial one. But one that is entered into in stages. The first stage is regeneration. Our dead spirit is regenerated and indwelt by the Spirit of Christ. Then, daily, our soul is being transfomred by the transforming Spirit. At our Lord's comming, then, this body of death (mortal body) will be swallowed up by imortality. This body of death will be transfigured and glorified by the operation of the Spirit of Life to transform us into the full image of the First born Son of God.This is no defeatest attitude. It is present enjoyment of the First fruits of the Spirit, the transformation of our soul and being built up into the Body of Christ as the dwelling place of God.And it is lived in hope of the final redemption of our mortal bodies. This is the Reality of the Christian Life, and hope and experience of Christ.If there is no war between flesh and spirit, then there is no Life in our spirit but we are living by our soul life. The Spirit wars against the flesh and the flesh against the spirit. This is the Word of God. Our flesh is not changed by regeneration, Our flesh is not sanctified. Our flesh is as fallen and corrupt as the day we were saved. It does not improve. but what improves is our constitution with Christ and through Him and His all victorious overcomming Life within us. we are able to live in victory over the flesh and our members become servants of God and not of sin. "In this body we groan." Graftedbranch
Quote;"""Our flesh is not changed by regeneration, Our flesh is not sanctified. Our flesh is as fallen and corrupt as the day we were saved. It does not improve. but what improves is our constitution with Christ and through Him and His all victorious overcomming Life within us. we are able to live in victory over the flesh and our members become servants of God and not of sin.""" Amen. Romans 8:10-13 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.If Gal 2:20 is real and correct then we died to sin on the Cross with Christ. His death took upon Himself the sin of the whole world, not just the sin I have committed today, but past present and future. If Christ's death was not enough to make Grace pure enough to take care of my sin then Paul lied and God is not in control and I because of my unbelief am making God a liar. This is a very serious concept to try to uncover and understand. How can a sinful body become not under sin anymore. Is it really possible? As far as man can see, it is impossible. We have been lied to often and continuously, I am just a sinner save by Grace and I can only get rid of this sinful body when I die. I see another truth in scripture. First, Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.This says to me that we no longer have to serve sin. Second: Rom 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.This says my body is already dead, How and when did that happen, I am still alive. I do believe that the Spirit of Christ in me is able to have dominion over me, maybe I am wrong, maybe Christ is not strong enough to take away my sin and His vicarious atonement is just so much smoke. I have a sister that goes to AA meetings and continues to say she is an alcoholic, even though she has not had a drink for over three years. To me she is not an alcoholic anymore and her mind must come to that conclusion or she will be an alcoholic the rest of her life. I believe that is where Satan wants to keep Christians', always believing they are sinners, when they have stopped committing adultery, they have stopped taking Gods name in vane and they have overcome many more sins and when they do understand by the Holy Spirit that they have sinned they agree with God and confess that is sin and knowing that God is faithful and will forgive the sin because of Christ, they come to the point where they don't use their own selfishness to get what they think they should have, and in doing this hurt others, and more and more they are getting to the point that they are less selfish, especially when it comes to others.1 John 1:5-10 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.I guess we should not listen to these words of John and listen to the devil coming from other Christians and the Church that we are still sinners and we don't have a chance to be Godly Children of Our Father.I am being a bit off center, because I am so thankful that God has provided the only Perfect way that I can Pray in this way, My Father Who art in Heaven, thank you that Christ is my Life and that I can come to you in all boldness and humility and put my head on Your Shoulder and do nothing but cry great tears of Joy that I am Your son by the Christ that is in me.Luk 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master. 1Cr 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 1Cr 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.Is He Come? I say yes and He is Birthed in me by my Father who has made me as His Son, me a son of God. Is that Perfect or not.Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Satan answer will always be yes, because we are sinners only partially saved by Grace.This will always be my answer to the lie of Satan.Phl 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Phl 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.Don't ask me if I sin, it won't work. The Christ in me has overcome all that I have done in the past and what I will do today and what I will do tomorrow, as to sin, Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come He might shew the exceeding riches of His grace in [His] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.Last of all this is His promise in Christ Jesus, I will overcome all things through Christ Jesus including sin and then this body must be planted in the ground that it like the Perfect Seed that is in me will and is producing fruit for the Father. Romans 7:23-25 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.And sin died on the Cross with me as dead to sin as Jesus Christ is. Amen.In Christ: Phillip
graftedbranch's Christ breathed into them the "Breath of God, the Holy Spirit" and His diciples became children of God with His Life.There are some large assumptions in this statement. Any it poses some large questions. not the least being 'why did they still cower behind locked doors until the day of Pentecost?
We have both. Our spirit is in union with God's Spirit but not like a husband and wife because they do not have the capacity to coninhere or "mutually indwell" one another.Our spirit is in union with God's Spirit in the way that Tea is mingled with water to become one cup of tea.I don't understand how they can be both. Either we have one Spirit inside of us which is God's Spirit. Or we have two spirits in us, one which is ours and one that is God's Spirit. Do we have two or one? It seems to me that you are saying that we have two that are mixed together in a union to make one. When tea and water mix, you cannot tell the tea from the water. Which part is the tea? Which is the water? Is that true of us and God? Do we share in such a union with God, that there is no way to tell us apart? Which part is God and which is me?And here is another question to build off the other. You said our spirit is in union with God's Spirit. Obviously, if you agree with the trinity, you agree that God is a union of three. Is the union between the Son and the Father, the same union that we have with God? Are we one with God like the son is one with the Father? Wondering....Blake
There are some large assumptions in this statement. Any it poses some large questions. not the least being 'why did they still cower behind locked doors until the day of Pentecost?I think the question above presents a large assumption. The Lord told them to tarry untill they be endued with Power... They were not "cowering". They were in prayer and in one accord. Fruits of the indwelling Spirit.The difficulty is that we generally have only the aspect of the Spirit as power presented to us, but not the Spirit as Life.When the Lord was resurrected, he breathed into them saying, "Recieve the Holy Spirit'. They were regenerated with His resurrection Life. The Lord also said (for the first time) tell my brothers...I ascend to My Father and their Father, my God and their God" indicating that now in resurrection they are brought into the divine sonship.The Spirit was breathed into them as Life in John 20 in fulfillment of all the Lord had promised in John 13-17. But the Day of Pentecost was the Spirit poured out "upon them" in power according to the promise of the Father, the power of the Ascended Christ.Regeneration is related to Life and the Lord's resurrection, the Spirit's outpouring is related to Power and our Lord's ascencion.The Diciples were regenerated and had the Spirit within them prior to Pentecost. But He had not been poured out in Power till Christ ascended and took the seat of Power.There is only One Spirit but there are two aspects of the Spirit's work. His indwelling as Life for our regeneration and begetting us with the Life of God and the Spirit poured out clothing us with power for the work. One is related to resurrection Life, the other to Christ's ascencion. We need both.Graftedbranch
It seems to me that you are saying that we have two that are mixed together in a union to make one. When tea and water mix, you cannot tell the tea from the water. Which part is the tea? Which is the water?Brother,Yes exactly.There are two spirits, Our human spirit and God's Spirit. Our human spirit is the place of His indwelling. Our human spirit is the organ for knowing God, recieving God and containing God. God mingles His Spirit with our spirit. Romans 9 tells us we are vessels. We are containiers of the Divine Life. Our spirit is the place where He dwells.Our body is the outer court, our soul is the inner court, and our spirit is the holy of holies, the place where God dwells, just as in the temple. Ephesians 2:28 says, You are being built up into a holy temple, a dwelling place of God in spirit.Romans 8:17 says, "The Spirit Himself, witnesses with our spirit that we are children of God".Paul in 1 Thess. says, "May your entire spirit, and soul, and body be preserved complete."The last verse in Galatians says, "The Grace of the Lord Jesus be with your spirit".1 Cor. Paul says, "whoso knows the thoughts of a man save the spirit of the man which is in him. Even so, the throughts of God no man knows but the Spirit who is from God. Now we have not recieved the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God.So Paul here compares God's Spirit with Man's spirit. And we have recieved God's Spirit into our spirit.Graftedbranch
Graftedbranch he Spirit was breathed into them as Life in John 20 in fulfillment of all the Lord had promised in John 13-17. But the Day of Pentecost was the Spirit poured out "upon them" in power according to the promise of the Father, the power of the Ascended Christ. "emphusao" does not mean 'breathed into' but 'breathed upon'. “And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:” (John 20:22, KJVS) This is not the same kind of action as God breathing 'into' Adam.
"""It seems to me that you are saying that we have two that are mixed together in a union to make one. When tea and water mix, you cannot tell the tea from the water. Which part is the tea? Which is the water?"""We are getting close to understanding the oneness that we have with Christ. Just as the Father is One with The Son and the Holy Spirit. Like you say, the tea is in the water and the water is in the tea. How is it separated? As for me, I don't have to know exactly how it is done, but I know what the Word says, I am in Christ and Christ is in me. I died on the Cross with Him. I was resurrected with Him unto life in God. I am seated with Christ in Heavenly Places. It is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me. The life I now live I live by the Faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. On and on and on it goes, my life being change from glory to glory in Christ Jesus. Just like the tea and the sock in the water, the water cannot be in the sock without the sock being in the water or the tea the same. I don't know exactly how it is a fact but God Knows. The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit are one, The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit and I are one, only because I believed, which I had nothing to do with, for I could not have believed unless the Holy Spirit had convicted me and given me the capacity to believe spiritual things, That Jesus Christ is the Son of God. God is Three in One, We are also now Four in One. The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit, and each one of us that are now one with God. It is not for me to reason How or Why, but it is for me to believe or die. God is also pouring out His Spirit and we are coming to a greater understanding every day of How God is working in each of His Children. Answering the Promise, He did go away and He is come again to us. John 14:28-31 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe. Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me. But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.ARISE, LET US GO HENCE. WOW, WHAT WORDS, ARE WE DOING THIS IN HIS POWER AND ARE WE BELIEVING HIS WORDS. SON'S OF GOD LET US REASON TOGETHER AND BECOME A PERFECT MAN IN CHRIST JESUS. AMEN.Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:In Christ: Phillip
This is not the same kind of action as God breathing 'into' Adam.Whether upon or into, the result is that they, "Received the Holy Spirit" as the Lord said. Some try to dodge around this and try to make a symbolic gesture out of it but the text does not lend itself to this at all. the Inference is exactly as presented. The only difficulty is that most popular theologies today don't recognize this. But the revelation of scripture is not subject to our theological constructs but rather our theology should be derived from scripture.We have been told from the pulpit so many times that the Spirit wasn't given till pentecost, we have come to regard this as orthodox. John 20 is simply overlooked. We want to dwell on the sensational and miraculas. The quiet indwelling of the Spirit as Life does not exite us.The Lord in John 14 told them He was going away for a little while but would come again to them. He told them He would not leave them as orphans but would send another comforter. He said, "He is with you and shall be in you. He then said, I will come to you".He also told them, "In that day, (when the Spirit comes) you shall know that I am in My Father and you are in me and I am in you".The Lord went away and returned in resurrection. And He breathed on them (into them) and said, "Recieve the Holy Spirit". There was no sound of rushing wind or cloven toungs of fire. There was the inward impartation of Life into His redeemed, regenerating them and bringing them into the Divine sonship.As the Resurrected Christ He breathed Himself into them as the Life Giving Spirit. Following this, according to the other gospels, He told them to tarry until they be endued with power from on High. He then ascended to Glory and on the day of Pentecost the Spirit was poured out in power, the power of the Ascended Christ for the work of the ministry.The Spirit on pentecost was not an indwelling but the Spirit "sat upon them" and clothed them" and "immersed them. They were filled with the Spirit. Being filled is not the same as being indwelt. We can be indwelt with the Spirit and not be filled with the Spirit. The apostles were "filled" many times even following Pentecost.Today, when we believe into the Lord Jesus Christ, we are regenerated and indwelt by the Spirit. We may or may not be "clothed with power from on high". The Spirit has been given both as life and power and we need both aspects of the Spirit. We need His resurrection Life for living and manifesting Christ and sanctification and all the inward aspects of the Christian Life and we need the Spirit as Power for service and preaching the Gospel.Graftedbranch
Whether upon or into, the result is that they, "Received the Holy Spirit"You are making an assumption that they received the Holy Spirit. The scripture does not SAY that they 'received'; it says that Jesus told them to 'receive'.Forgive me, but if I poured water 'upon' you, you are in a completely different condition afterwards, than if I helped you to take a drink - that is, you took the water 'into' you.
You are making an assumption that they received the Holy Spirit. The scripture does not SAY that they 'received'; it says that Jesus told them to 'receive'.It is an assumption based on it's own inherent implications. Why would they not do as the Lord said and "recieve the Holy Spirit"?It's evidence is seen in the behaviour of the diciples following. They, for the first time in their 3 1/2 years dicipleship were together and in one accord praying. There is never even a record of their' praying prior, only asking the Lord to "teach us to pray".Prayer, one accord, and being gathered together are all fruits of the indwelling Spirit. It is the One Spirit who brings us into one accord.Even after Pentecost, this whole matter was repeated. In Acts 4:24 after Peter and John were released by the Sanhedrin, they reported these things to the others and it is written, "they lifted up their voice in one accord to God and said....and in 31 it says, "And when they had so besought, the place in which they were gathered was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the word of God with boldness..."These were already regenerated and indwelt by the Holy Spirit. and the Spirit brought them into one accord again and they prayed in one accord. Then they again were 'filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke with boldness." Here again we see the "one accord, praying, and sudenly being filled with the Spirit".There is absolutely no reason to suggest that the Lord told them to "recieve the Holy Spirit" when He breathed on them and they did not. This is just not in the text, nor implied in the text. In fact, as a testimony that the Lord Himself knew they in fact had "recieved the Holy Spirit' He continued saying, "whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you retain, thear are retained."My question is, "why is it even an issue?" What is the hangup? What is the docrinal problem with the believers following the Lords crucifixion and resurrection recieveing the Holy Spirit? Why would we object to the suggestion that the Crucified and resurrected Christ imiparted His Eternal Life into them as the Spirit making them children of God? The promis ofe the Comforter is related to Life. And the promise of the Spirit as Power is related to Christ's ascention and the work.Is it just that we don't know or see the reality of the Spirit as our indwelling Life? Do we only see Him as the "Spirit of Power" for doing mighty things? The Spirit's first work is for Life. To impart and form Christ in us to conform us to His image and make us like Himself. The Work flows from this and need's the Spirit's power.Or is it just that it does not fit with our already preconcieved idea of the sequence of events? We have been told in almost every pulpit which preaches Christ at all, that the Spirit was not given till Pentecost. But how many preachers see and teach Christ as our indwelling Life? I like the footnote in the RcV:"This was the Spirit expected in 7:39 and promised in 14:16-17, 26; 15:26, and 16:7-8, 13. Hence, the Lord's breathing of the Holy Spirit into the diciples was the fulfillment of His promise of the Holy Spirit as the Comforter. This fulfillment differs from the one in Acts 2:1-4, which was the fulfillment of the Father's promise in Luke 24:49. In Acts 2 the Spirit as a rushing, violent wind came as power upon the diciples for their work. Here the Spirit as breath was breathed as life into the diciples for the life. By breathing the Spirit into the diciples, the Lord imparted Himself into them as life and everything. Thus, all that He had spoken in chs. 14-16 could be fulfilled."Graftedbranch
Quote:""These were already regenerated and indwelt by the Holy Spirit. and the Spirit brought them into one accord ((again)) and they prayed in one accord. Then they ((again)) were 'filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke with boldness." ""Question, Is this two fillings by the Holy Spirit or two times into one accord? Do we have many fillings, or only one? Were the fillings from outside or from within? Were we baptized into the Holy Spirit and baptized into Christs death once or more than once? What is regeneration?In Christ: Phillip
Acts 2:2-4 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.This is the finish of the breath of Christ in John 20. Jesus said the Father would send the Comforter in His name. His own breath on the disciples in the upper room was not the promise, only the allowing of the proof that what He had said would proceed from the Father. If His breath gave them sanctification to perform the miracles before Pentecost, sins forgiven etc. it would surly be what He promised about the Holy Spirit being with them and surly would be in them by the Breath of the Father like a mighty rushing wind, that filled the whole room and the whole house where they were sitting. The Spirit had always been upon them and with them, but He had never been in them as part of their being and the Power of Life by the Birth of Christ in them as The Sealer of Christ in them, completing the promise, Not only of the Holy Spirit in them, the Comforter, but also He Himself as a Person in them. John 14:28-29 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe. He could not come to them unless He had ascended to His Father in Glory and triumph over sin. Then we are baptized into His death and resurrected with Him unto life with God. Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? This is not water baptism. Then resurrected to life in Him. Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also of resurrection:Who is the Comforter? He is our Teacher, Teacher of what, of The Christ that is in us. John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.Finally to give us separation of the Holy Spirit from Himself as our indwelling regeneration and the Comforter Teacher, John 16:13-15 Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth: for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak: and He will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for He shall receive of Mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are Mine: therefore said I, that He (Holy Spirit) shall take of Mine, and shall shew it unto you.This is Christ In us and the whole of God's Plan, the "mystery of Christ in you the Hope of Glory" that was given to Paul, by revelation from Christ Himself.Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.The Holy Spirit came at Pentecost to bring Christ life to the believer and teach us this mystery.Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, And the epitome of what the Christ in us will accomplish. Ephesians 1:17-23 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom (Which is Christ, 1 Corinthians 1: 30) and revelation (by the Holy Spirit) in the knowledge of Him:(Christ) The eyes of your understanding being enlightened;(by the Holy Spirit) that ye may know what is the hope of His (Christ)calling, and what the riches of the glory of His (Christ)inheritance in the saints, And what is the exceeding greatness of His (Christ)power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of His (Spirit of God) mighty power, Which He wrought in Christ, when He (Spirit of God) raised Him (Christ) from the dead, () and set Him (Christ) at His (God the Father) own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under His (Christ) feet, and gave Him (Christ)to be the Head over all things to the church, Which is His (Christ) body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all.Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery (final Gospel) of Christ) Eph 3:9 And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, (final Gospel) which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Eph 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery (Paul's Gospel) of the gospel, Col 1:26 [Even] the mystery (Paul's Gospel) which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery (Paul's Gospel) among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Col 2:2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; Col 4:3 Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds: Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.Paul's call, with Christs endorsement, Galatians 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ, the final Gospel of Christ, Paul's Gospel, the mystery.In Christ: Phillip
If His breath gave them sanctification to perform the miracles before Pentecost, sins forgiven etcHere is the difficulty. Our concept of the purpose of the Spirit is 'performing Miracles'. Christ's breathing the Holy Spirit was not for miracles but for Life. That is regerating them and making them children of God with His Life. All the promises of the Spirit in John are not related to the performing of miracles, but related to Life:He who drinks the water I give... shall be a well of water springing up into Eternal Life...Out of his inner most being shall flow rivers of Living Water.In that day you will know that I am in My Father and you are in Me and I am in you... Etc.The Spririt of the crucified and resurrected Christ was breathed into them regenerating them and making them sons of God.This is not about gifts of the Spirit, the performing of miracles, and doing works of power. This is related to Eternal Life.In John 20:23,the Lord did not say, Now perform miracles in My Name" to them, rather He said, "whosoever sins you forgive, they are forgiven him..."Why did the Lord say this? He had been crucified and resurrected, Atonement for sin had been made and therefore the Spirit breathed into them gave them this capacity. But the Lord had not yet ascended to glory and so He spoke nothing conserning Miracles and works of power here.John says, "This is the record, God has given us Eternal Life, this life is in His Son, He who has the Son has the Life. He who does not have the Son of God does not have the Life.The Gospel of John says nothing about "tarrying till you be endued with power from on high" The book deals with Christ as the embodiment of the Eternal Life and the promise of the Spirit as Life in His resurrection to His believers making the sons of God (to as many as recieved Him, to them He gave power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His Name... who were born of God).The Gospel of John doesn't record the Lord's words to tarry, etc. But it ends with the fullfilment of all Christ's promises of the Spirit for Life recorded in John. All the promises of the Spirit in the book of John are fulfilled in John 20:21,22. The focus of the book of John is on Life. Christ as the Word made flesh, the embodiment of the Eternal Life. Christ as the One grain of wheat which fell to the ground to die, to be reproduced in resurrection as the many grains.Regeration brings the Life of God into us making us children of God with His Life and His nature. The Spirit outpoured at Pentecost is the Spirit of the Ascended Christ in glory poured out as power for the work of the gospel and the building up of the body of Christ.Again, every reference to the outpouring of the Spirit at Pentacost uses words like, "upon" clothed with, immersed in (baptised), etc. Just as Christ was concieved of the Spirit and was indwelt by the Spirit before His baptism, the Spirit decended upon Him at the innitiation of His ministry as the Spirit of Power (If I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the Kingdom of God has come upon you).In the same way, though the diciples were already regenerated and indwelt by the Spirit in John 20:22, prior to pentecost, the Spirit was poured out upon them for the initiation of the work of the church on the day of pentecost following our Lord's ascension to the throne. The Spirit of the Ascended Christ was poured out upon them in power for the work of the ministry.This is clear in scripture.Graftedbranch
Do we have many fillings, or only one? Were the fillings from outside or from within? Were we baptized into the Holy Spirit and baptized into Christs death once or more than once? What is regeneration?Of course we have many fillings. In acts it is recorded over and over, "Peter being suddenly filled with the Spirit... etc.Have we not had this experience. We may not be feeling particularly spiritual. We don't really have much sense of the Presence of God. But suddenly we are brought into a situation with a person, etc. and suddenly we are strengthened into our spirit and filled with the Spirit and there is a flow of LIfe?. By God's mercy He suddenly fills us and we speak and say within ourselves, "Lord, where did that come from"?).In Ephesians Paul tells us, "be not drunk with wine... but rather filled (continually filled) with the Spirit. If it were a one time affair, then there would be no need for such an admonition.When we believe into Christ we are immediatly regenerated and indwelt by the Spirit. He indwells our spirit. But the filling is not in our spirit but in our soul, our mind, our will, our emotions.It is one thing to be indwelt by the Spirit in our spirit. It is another to be filled with the Spirit.This is shown in Ephesians 3:17 where Paul prays, "That you would be strengthened with Power by His Spirit into the inner man that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith...The Spirit is already in believer's spirits. But we must be strengthened by the Spirit into our spirit that Christ may dwell in our hearts. That is that He may spread and fill us. As Paul goes on to say... That you might be filled up unto all the fullness of God.Graftedbranch