Should we celebrate Christmas?

Should we celebrate Christmas?We should celebrate the birth of Christ (more than once a year though) but should we celebrate Christmas?

I love Christmas and celebrate it everyday. The date matters not, and if the world can see a celebration that honors Jesus Christ and His birth, so be it. We should be Christmas to the World everyday, the Birth of Christ in us.In Christ: Phillip

There is no Biblical command to do so. The observance of Christmas is a human tradition, a compromise with paganism. Christ's birthday was chosen 3oo years later because it was the birthday of a pagan deity. When something is done over and over again, then the conscience thinks it must be the right thing to do. That is how we become enslaved to man's traditions. There is a big difference between doing something out of choice and out of obligation. Let the Spirit reveal to you what he desires for you regarding the Christmas season. That is the only way you will know what God requires of you. Getting a consenses among Christins may help you think through things, but that can't replace the Spirit's guidance for you. Enjoy your journey, and may God reveal to you surprising truths about himself! Diane

This year has been the first the my conscience has even quentioned Christmas. Having dedicated alot of time to the study of Church History, this year, and learning of how the papacy, under the "Chirtian Emperors", between Constantine and the fall of Rome, moulded christianity to conform with the pagan religions of the nations they preached to (including incorporating Mary, and saint worship, to appeal to the need for goddess and pantheon worship).Few of us would participate in worshipping Mary, or a transubstantive (ie, Catholic style) eucharist, or bow down to the anti (oops, I mean "viccar of") christ (naughty, I know), so why stop there? Why don't we celebrate the Jewish festivals, when we do celebrate pagan ones?Still wrestling with this and, to be honest, I have my tree up again this year, however, I find it hard to sit stillwhen I hear someone say, "Jesus is the reason for the season", and "We need to get back to the Christian origins of Christmas."Anyone else sharemy concerns? Even more-so, does anyone else get accused of "fanaticism" whenever they mention it to another believer?

I have recently been questioning whether or not to celebrate Christmas, my former house church leader was dead against it. In our family though, and were all christians (except my dad), we have never questioned celebrating Christmas, we are aware it has it's roots in a pagan celebration, but we are celebrating the birth of the Lord Jesus into the world. my question to those who don't celebrate Christmas, do you celebrate the Lord's birth around the feast of tabernacles? If so, great! if not, when do you celebrate the Lord coming to our world?As my mum often quips 'When you read the gospel accounts of the nativity the only one who isn't celebrating the birth of Jesus is Herod'mat

Had thought about attempting to pull together all the various post's and threads in this regards at one point and found it to be likely more confusing than helpful. So, would suggest a search or as a help will try and pull together a series of links that have some history over the duration of this site's existence.Am of a dissenting opinion here. To use some of the logic reasoned for not 'observing' Christmas is curious;No where in Scriptures are we commanded to observe the birth of Christ. On the contrary, we are commanded to observe the death of Christ. That is enough for me to not "celebrate" or observe Christmas. There is no Biblical command to do so. That is an argument from silence.Gal 4:10 - Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. Lest the apostle should be thought to suggest, without foundation, the inclination of these people to be in bondage to the ceremonies of the law, he gives this as an instance of it; which is to be understood, not of a civil observation of times, divided into days, months, and years, for which the luminaries of the heavens were made, and into summer and winter, seedtime and harvest, which is not only lawful, but absolutely necessary; but of a religious observation of days, &c. not of the lucky and unlucky days, or of any of the festivals of the Gentiles, but of Jewish ones. By "days" are meant their seventh day sabbaths; for since they are distinguished from months and years, they must mean such days as returned weekly; and what else can they be but their weekly sabbaths? These were peculiar to the Israelites, and not binding on others; and being typical of Christ, the true rest of his people, and he being come, are now ceased. By "months" are designed their new moons, or the beginning of their months upon the appearance of a new moon, which were kept by blowing trumpets, offering sacrifices, hearing the word of God, abstaining from work, and holding religious feasts; and were typical of that light, knowledge, and grace, the church receives from Christ, the sun of righteousness; and he, the substance, being come, these shadows disappeared. By "times" are intended the three times in the year, when the Jewish males appeared before the Lord at Jerusalem, to keep the three feasts of tabernacles, passover, and pentecost, for the observance of which there was now no reason; not of the feast of tabernacles, since the word was made flesh, and tabernacled among us; nor of the passover, since Christ, our passover, is sacrificed for us; nor of pentecost, or the feast of weeks, or of the first fruits of the harvest, since the Spirit of God was poured down in a plenteous manner on that day upon the apostles; and when the firstfruits of a glorious harvest were brought in to the Lord, in the conversion of three thousand souls. And by "years" are to be understood their sabbatical years; every seventh year the land had a rest, and remained untilled; there were no ploughing and sowing, and there was a general release of debtors; and every fiftieth year was a jubilee to the Lord, when liberty to servants, debtors, &c. was proclaimed throughout the land: all which were typical of rest, payment of debts, and spiritual liberty by Christ; and which having their accomplishment in him, were no longer to be observed; wherefore these Galatians are blamed for so doing; and the more, because they were taught to observe them, in order to obtain eternal life and salvation by them.John GillThe problem with a lot of these deriving's from scripture is that they have no basis in what was meant when they were written. The whole of the "Christmas tree". Been over this in other threads, what was spoken of in Jeremiah needs to be taken within it's context, fully. What is the point of the whole matter there? 'Creating' and worshiping of idols, For the customs of the peoples are vanity; for one cutteth a tree out of the forest,... They are like a palm-tree, of turned work, and speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither is it in them to do good. It is quite the reach to attribute this to our modern day usage, is the first week of January a day of rejoicing because all the 'idols' are taken out to the trash? Which leads to the next question, what are we to do with all the other 'pagan' things that corrupt this world we live in. Day's of the week, names of the month, cities, street's derived from all sorts of historical assumptions and previous usages? Some examples;March"In ancient Rome, March was called Martius, so named after the Roman god of war and was considered a lucky time to begin a war. AugustAugust was named in honor of Augustus Caesar. The month reputedly has 31 days because Augustus wanted as many days as Julius Caesar's July. Augustus placed the month where it is because that's when Cleopatra died. Before Augustus renamed August, it was called Sextilis in Latin, since it was the sixth month in the Roman calendar which started in March.In the pagan wheel of the year August begins at or near Lughnasadh in the northern hemisphere and Imbolc in the southern hemisphere.Wheel of the Year In Neopaganism, the Wheel of the Year is the natural cycle of the seasons, commemorated by the eight Sabbats.Because one tenet of Neopaganism is that all of nature is cyclical, the passing of time is also seen as a cycle, a wheel which turns and turns. The course of birth, life, decline, and death that we see in our human lives is echoed in the seasons. The eight Sabbats are religious holidays that celebrate the passing of the year.Each Sabbat also symbolizes a time in the life of the God, who is born from the Goddess, grows to full manhood, mates with her, and reigns as king during the summer. He then declines and dies, rising anew the next year.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~All these things have root's and derivatives. More of this brought out in other postings, cereals come to mind of more of the same. It would be dishonest not to address some of these things, that are mentioned along with the commercialism, materialism, the ironic flippancy towards Whose birth it is that at least at some point in time was the whole reasoning behind acknowledging and celebrating this most incredible event in human history. The irony is for some, the pagan aspects are being drawn back to it's roots by changing the meaning back more in line with those very roots. In other words, those that would have a problem with this are getting much help, the world has already come alongside and taken Jesus Christ out and replaced it with various out takes more resembling pagan activities "Winter Solstice", seasonal this and that, whatever they wish to call it. Not unlike efforts to eradicate the name of God due to spurious and absurd collisions of 'separation of church and state', out of the schools, out of the courts, take down the Ten Commandments, shouldn't be much longer before it's taken off the currency here... What it boils down to is, the world is waxing cold or is it burning hot with indignation at any mention of God, of Jesus Christ and the "Christians" are just as happy to oblige them in some sense. Are you happy now? Will you be content to join the miserable Jehovah's Witness's taken up with their misconstruing of scripture and replace what might be a heart honoring love towards God for sending His only Son to this miserable planet to save the likes of the unappreciative, rebellious ______* that we are, with a bitterness towards this 'Pagan' holiday? By the way, this might sound more 'angry' than intended, it's not that. Just wonder where our hearts are sometimes. Some of the other articles posted have much to say about this. Wish it was easier to put in a nice nutshell, but for all the traditions and particular upbringing, Christmas was always a respite from the dregs of living on this sin infested planet. A time of wonder and joy and hope at the possibilities and long sought for coming of the Lord again for the second and final time. It now has much more deeper and truer meaning than it once did. "O Holy Night" is something I keep appealing to. It can draw out the richness of longing for the Lord to return and return the world back to it's right intentions once and for all. To think of it in an altogether different light, what Christmas means not to the 'pagan' world, not to the 'mass' nor the masses, not even to all the "Christians" that now want to close the church on this particular day, something telling in a general sense out of all this... What does this all mean in the broad sense? Doesn't it seem peculiar what is happening in our day, especially here in America? Just in the last few years, this build up, this effort to 'remove'... The interesting thing is that though in large part there has always been the truth of "these people honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me" Now even the lips are to soon stop. If we don't have a true and real revival in this land soon, all this belly aching over Christmas will become but a wished for longing one day. We will have our pagan proscriptions proven true right before our very eyes. Watch out what you wish for.Fall on your knees, Oh hear the angel voices!O night divine, O night, when Christ was born!O night, O holy night, O night divine.The irony there is that we will not fall on our knees, even as it is being sung.*meaning here (Edit: Second thought's on leaving this word in here, too many possible misunderstandings)

There is no Biblical command to do so. The observance of Christmas is a human tradition, a compromise with paganism. Christ's birthday was chosen 3oo years later because it was the birthday of a pagan deity.Even though there may have been some pagan elements that were originally associated with a celebration at this time of year I don't believe that makes celebrating the birth of Christ wrong. Our celebration of Christmas is not the same as that old celebration. In fact, it's quite different. We are celebrating the birth of Jesus.I agree that we aren't under obligation to celebrate Christmas and that there is no Scripture that commands it but it strikes me that it is entirely appropriate. There are many cases in the Bible of feasts being kept in order to remind the people of the importance and significance of certain events. For me Christmas is a wonderful reminder of the mercy and grace of God. What we do on Christmas is focus on the birth of Jesus Christ, and what an event that was!You could probably go back and find all kinds of wierd ideology behind many of the things we do every day, but it doesn't matter because that ideology doesn't have any meaning for people NOW. I guess I just don't see how celebrating the birth of Christ is wrong. In Christ,Ron

Christians celebrate Christ every day. He is our indweling Life, we pray, we fellowhip with Him, we feed on Him, and we live by Him. He is not a baby in a manger. Today He is the Risen Lord Jesus ascended in the heavens and indwelling us as our Life. My experience has been the more the Lord has gained in me and the more of Christ I have gained, the more "celebrating Christmas" has become just an excercise in overcomming. It does provide opertunites to speak of Christ and many seem to be more open to talk about spiritual thigs, But the day itself is just a day. The existance of "Christmas" is probably good for unbelievers because it forces them to consider this great "event". The incarnation of the Lord Jesus. "The Word became flesh and dwelt among us". But for believers, we ought to be one with the Lord every day and don't need "special days".The biggest trial is in dealing with family. With parents who are offended if you don't do "Santa Clause" with your kids, or who religiously celebrate the day. I think we just have to walk closly with the Lord and be sensitive to the Spirit. We are not opposed to Christmas and walk around with a scoul on our face and condemn everyone who puts up a tree. Who doesn't like "chestnuts roasting on an open fire" and pretty lights and snow and sleighbells?But it is to us just a day to know and Live Christ and to walk in the reality of our union with Him and to express Him in all things.If we can get through the season without grieving the Spirit we have done well."As far as lies within you, be at peace with all men."Graftedbranch

We have a vivid picture of Paul in a heathen context in Acts 17. There was so much that was wrong but Paul found enough things that were right to use as an opportunity for the gospel. “And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear. Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.” (Phil. 1:14-18, KJVS)

Christmas just died in me one year, and...if it is possible just kept dieing. Trusting that it is a pagan holiday for profit, this death was a gift.As far as celebrating birthdays...the only one I can recall being celebrated in Scripture was Herad's...which as we know, resulted in the death of John the baptist.

We cannot ignore all the various aspects surrounding Christmas, and we can’t ignore what is on the hearts and minds of others. To do so would be very un-Christian. The reality is that Christmas is an important observance in our culture, and we all interact with it in some way – because we interact with people. Here is an example: we have our own special day where we do things for them and this year were going to buy them a ping pong table. That’s all they care about. I’m even thinking of having some outdoor lighting around my house because the kids like the lights but nothing colored which I don’t care for anywayWe must seek to know what would please Christ and what would displease him. Some things that displease him are: going after the delights of this world, doing something under obligation, insisting on certain religious observances and holidays, gluttony, materialism, worshipping idols, making choices without seeking God, living according to our natural reasoning… feeling guilty when we shouldn’t (like not meeting everyone’s expectations), worry, allowing pressures to run our lives, having a form of godliness without the power, judging the way others observe holidays, Etc….etc… etc Clearly, Christmas can induce a host of sins. Yet, not observing it does not absolve us of any sins. It’s not a matter of should we or shouldn’t we observe it, but rather: Are my choices pleasing to God? “Whatever is not of faith is sin.” There are a lot of choices that come not from faith, but from obligation, the natural flesh, or natural reasoning. The original question should be worded, ‘What are my responsibilities regarding Christmas? 'When you read the gospel accounts of the nativity the only one who isn't celebrating the birth of Jesus is Herod' I don’t think that this justifies the observance of Christmas. Hardly anyone even knew of the birth of Christ, only a few lowly shepherds, and some astrologers from a distant land. It wasn’t a big event – and far from the way we celebrate birthdays in our culture. For me, Christmas time is filled with opportunities to glorify God through contacts with others, through music, and through a heightened sense of good will, and much more. It can be our golden opportunity to shine the light of Christ in the midst of the darkness. Diane

Luther is supposed to have cut the first Christmas tree. The story may be apocryphal, but we know that on Christmas Eve, 1538, he was in a jolly mood, singing and talking about the incarnation. Then he sighed, saying, "Oh, we poor men, that we should be so cold and indifferent to this great joy which has been given us." Loved Ron's sentiment expressed a couple of replies back, it is a very, very difficult verse to get around isn't it? And how often it applies and makes some of us squirm ... myself included.One thing that is a bit puzzling is the extremes this can be taken to. Did some more searching around and some of the reasonings for opposing are just incredible, legalistic and far afield as the ones that would want to buttress an argument the other way.Some interesting things came up though, even as this holiday developed in the US primarily. A lot of the 'lore' could be tied directly to a book almost, with a 'built in' history. Here's a few to take a look at for the curious;The Real Story of Christmas December 25, 336 • The First Recorded Celebration of Christmas December 24, Annual • Christmas Eve.Let's Celebrate Christmas, But When and How?All things being equal and taking what is read with some real possibilities of misconstrueing...Couldn't pass this one up, it seemed to be possibly a bit much at first glance but ... let the reader decide;Pagan Claus: A look at Christmas Symbols

I have been troubled by this discussion and how some can cling so tightly to there man made tradition instead of following the word of God. I have been reluctant to post my own thoughts and ideas, but I think the recent thread started by brother Shibu relates what I feel almost exactly. I also feel like Christmas naturally died for me when I was born again by the Spirit of God, as another brother related. Before I start to go off on a rant, I'd like to point this discussion to what I believe is a voice of reason shedding some light on the subject - Zac Poonen - as posted by brother Shibu - I feel it most likely better to let Zac do my talking for me on this matter. CHRISTMAS AND EASTER - CHRISTIAN OR PAGAN? Zac PoonenPlease go read the whole article, but hear is a little taste.It is amazing that many believers are not willing to accept what even secular writers (like the authors of Encyclopedia Britannica) have understood clearly - that Christmas and Easter are basically pagan festivals. You can call an ass a lion, but it is still an ass. Changing the names has not made these festivals Christian! There is no difference between Christmas and Easter and Ganesh Puja and Dussera...True spirituality is to follow Jesus in all aspects of life. This involves primarily a taking up of the cross and obeying God's word in the power of the Holy Spirit in daily life. It also involves a forsaking of all human traditions that are not found in the New Testament. God desires a pure testimony in every place - a church that is not only free from all sin, but also free from Babylonian traditions.

The choice of the 25th as the day of the birth is certainly not based on chronological fact but was simply an expedient so that 'Christian's could have their own celebration without being drawn into the Winter Solstice. For many years I spoke at an 'All Saints' day conference in Poland. 'All Saints' is the day after 'Haloween'. The reason was simple. The Catholic Polish folk were used to visiting the cemetries on 'All Hallows' Eve' and paying their respects to their dead relatives and praying for their souls The cemetries are ablaze with candles at this time and it was a key aspect of Polish cultures.Some evangelicals saw the danger of young converts being drawn back into Catholic ways and coming back under the influence of their Catholic families. The solution was a very simple expedient. They developed an alternative 'celebration' so that young Christians could meet together in a residential conference at that time of the year.The choice of 25th December was the same kind of expedient. It provided an alternate 'celebration' so that the Christians were not drawn back into their pagan cultures. Their perceived choice was reject it or replace it. As some of you will know I am not afraid of 'replacement theology'! :-D Loved Ron's sentiment expressed a couple of replies back, it is a very, very difficult verse to get around isn't it? And how often it applies and makes some of us squirm ... myself included.me too! ;-)

Christisking wrote:I have been troubled by this discussion and how some can cling so tightly to there man made tradition instead of following the word of God. CHRISTMAS AND EASTER - CHRISTIAN OR PAGAN? Zac PoonenPlease go read the whole article, but hear is a little taste.

It is amazing that many believers are not willing to accept what even secular writers (like the authors of Encyclopedia Britannica) have understood clearly - that Christmas and Easter are basically pagan festivals. You can call an ass a lion, but it is still an ass. Changing the names has not made these festivals Christian! There is no difference between Christmas and Easter and Ganesh Puja and Dussera...True spirituality is to follow Jesus in all aspects of life. This involves primarily a taking up of the cross and obeying God's word in the power of the Holy Spirit in daily life. It also involves a forsaking of all human traditions that are not found in the New Testament. God desires a pure testimony in every place - a church that is not only free from all sin, but also free from Babylonian traditions.

"So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. Let not then your good be evil spoken of: For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men. Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another. For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offense. It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin." - Romans 14:12-23

brethrenI have no problem with those that do not want to celebrate it. You follow the convictions that God lays on your heart, but please do not impress those onto others as something they are doing wrong. Neither Christ nor the aposltes gave us the liberty to do so.i think this sums it up, let each of us seek the Lord on what we ought to do and do that. if the Lord is indeed tugging at you to leave this whole celebration alone, then leave it alone. i've never really been that into Christmas, it always seemed weird to me how all of a sudden people became all nice at this time and were mean every other time of the year :-( We never did the Christmas tree, we did get together with family but we did this often so it wasn't a big deal. i enjoy time with family, i don't do gifts, trees, cards or anything else really. i think though we should celebrate Christ each day.if it bothers you that these holidays have pagan influences, then i would suggest you not celebrate them. at the end of the day though, let each one seek the Lord's counsel earnestly and if the Lord calls for us to repent from this then let us fall on our faces and repent, repent and repent some more.AMEN.

The choice of 25th December was the same kind of expedient. It provided an alternate 'celebration' so that the Christians were not drawn back into their pagan cultures. Their perceived choice was reject it or replace it. As some of you will know I am not afraid of 'replacement theology'!Now this is a good point, though I suspect it did not originate with the Holy Spirit. It seems like an attempt to mix two kingdoms - God's and man's. As I said earlier, Christmas is HERE, and we must respond to it in some way. To say that we want nothing to do with it would mean putting a paper bag on our head so that we can't see all the pretty lights and decorations. We can't pretend it doesn't exist, and we can't control what others do with Christmas. But we can do something about our own sinful tendencies to go after fleshly gratifications. We can learn to resist the temptations, and be as Christ would want us to be. Some other thoughts: Jesus took part in cultural or religious activites even though he didn't necessarily support them. He taught in the temple (which was very anti-Christ in it's philosophy). He went to a wedding and even changed huge pots of water into huge pots of wine (probably for the benefit of all who insist on abstinence). If Jesus were to walk in our culture today, he'd probably join the odd Christmas Eve service. And we have the Pope to thank for making Dec. 25 the official day to celebrate Christ's Birthday .......... Oops, did I say something I shouldn't have? Diane

I'm wondering, do some of you people also not light fireworks? Do some of you also not wear crosses for example?To be honest I see no wrong in celebrating Jesus birthday. There is nothing in scripture that forbids us to do that. Was it common for people in the New Testament to celebrate their birthday? If it was not, shouldn't we then stop doing that too? (especially if we read that Harod celebrated his birthday)Where does one draw the line?

Diane (roadsign):As I said earlier, Christmas is HERE, and we must respond to it in some way. To say that we want nothing to do with it would mean putting a paper bag on our head so that we can't see all the pretty lights and decorations. We can't pretend it doesn't exist, and we can't control what others do with Christmas. But we can do something about our own sinful tendencies to go after fleshly gratifications. We can learn to resist the temptations, and be as Christ would want us to be. I agree we have to respond in some way, although Christians do respond in different ways. Some chose to seize the opportunity to emphasise the Lord's birth - God's gift of his son to the world - to counter the consumerism and commercialism in the world.Some chose to refrain from associating with Christian celebrations completely. We remember the Lord's incarnation, death, and resurrection every time we partake of the holy communion, not just once a year.I think this is a situation where we can apply these verses:One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. (Romans 14:5-6).

Christmas is a contraction for The Christ Mass, as for being a pagan holiday, as Christians do we run from days that happen to have evil or bad things happen on them? I cannot believe how the JWs have convinced some Christians they are correct in not celebrating Christmas, A cult is teaching us. I thought we are to be salt and light and Christmas is a Christian Holiday that Jesus Christ inspired. I am trouble that some of us are so easily deceived into surrendering it back to the heathens. Christmas is a huge chance to reach the lost. We have a unique chance to be more Christ like after all He has the greatest and most important gift anyone can receive. I hope there are not any Christians saying "Happy Holidays" how PC can we get? After all Holidays are another contraction for HOLY Days you just take out the Why and replace it with a selfish, "I" there must be a spiritual message somewhere maybe someone else can use it. Any way that is my two cents, Merry Christmas

After all Holidays are another contraction for HOLY Days you just take out the Why and replace it with a selfish, "I" there must be a spiritual message somewhere maybe someone else can use it. Any way that is my two cents, Merry Christmas"I" think there is a spiritual message right within your quote. Merry Christmas to you to.Something that just jumped up on the radar:"And it was told king David, saying, The LORD hath blessed the house of Obededom, and all that pertaineth unto him, because of the ark of God. So David went and brought up the ark of God from the house of Obededom into the city of David with gladness. And it was so, that when they that bare the ark of the LORD had gone six paces, he sacrificed oxen and fatlings. And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod. So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet. And as the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the LORD; and she despised him in her heart." 2Sa 6:12-16

Christmas is a Christian Holiday that Jesus Christ inspired. I think the earlier posts clearly expose the fallacy of this statement. It is NOT insprired by Christ, but by a desire to combine the kingdom of God with the kingdom of the world. That should be quite obvious when we look at our practises surrounding this holiday season. I am trouble that some of us are so easily deceived into surrendering it back to the heathensJesus said: Give to Casaer what is Casaer's and to God what is God's. We are not called to claim Christmas for ourselves, just because in the third century someone did that. So, let the pagans call the TREE whatever they want, a holiday tree, a yule tree. That is NOT our affair. Christmas trees have nothing to do with the Kingdom of God. "Do not love the world, or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For everything in the world - the cravings of sinful man, the lust of the eye..... come not from the Father but from the WORLD." 1 Jn. 2:15 In the thread about church music, I shared my comments about our tendency to turn musuc into our idol. Again here I post my diagnostic questions, only substitue the word 'Christmas' for 'music'. Is Christmas an idol to us? That is a personal issue. 1. Do I need a Christmas to make me FEEL like I am worshipping God? 2. Can I get along WITHOUT it? 3. Do I believe that the kind of Christmas that I like must be what God likes too (making God into my own image)4. Am I so wrapped up in my Christmas that I fail to empathize with others around them - ie I have no clue what is going on in their lives, and I really don't care?5. Do I regard my Christmas involvement as my sacrifice to God, when really it is merely a way to satisfy my senses? 6. Do I control others in order to get what I want, and fail to appreciate or respect those who may have different convictions?7. Is what's happening at Christmas in my church (or home) sacred to me. (ie more importance than God)8. If God calls you to surrender Christmas, would you?Idolatry is a serious problem - a violation of the first two commandments in the OT and the greatest commandment in the NT. We are all prone to it, so, it is worth allowing God to examine our hearts regarding Christmas. It is in our minds where idols are forged, and it is there where we must deal with it. IRONMAN said it well: let each of us seek the Lord on what we ought to do and do that. if the Lord is indeed tugging at you to leave this whole celebration alone, then leave it alone. ... if the Lord calls for us to repent from this then let us fall on our faces and repent, repent and repent some more.AMEN.Thank you, Ironman. Diane

Regarding this issue, Agent's post of this verse seems to hit the nail on the head.One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. (Romans 14:5-6).I think we should respect the Godly convictions of those Christians who cannot in faith or conscience observe Christmas, while also respecting those Christians who are eager to observe Christmas as a public and private remembrance of Christ's birth.MC

MC,Aren't these verses talking about sabbath days that were ordained by God and not about using pagan holidays to worship God? I think using pagan festivals to worship God is expressively forbidden. If I am wrong please correct me.Although, the pagan origins of Christmas is enough reason not to celebrate, I think it is not the major reason. I'll post me opinions on the major reason on why Christians should not celebrate Christmas in a second post.

I am interested in what people think and hope that some will try to answer some of the questions posed in this post - first of all, do you think that we should take the name of Christ out of Christmas altogether, or should we allow His name to be associated with the abomination we now call Christmas? It is kind of a tricky question. Haven't christians ruined this celebration to the Birth of Christ? Isn't having the name of Jesus associated with this holiday a much bigger offense to Jesus than taking it out? Do you disagree that the celebration of Christmas is an abomination to Jesus and puts Him to open shame in front of the whole world. "I saw a sign the other day that said in reference to this season, "Love, joy and peace are in the air." Bzzzt. Wrong answer. Materialism, gluttony, selfishness, suicide, greed, pride, self-righteousness, family idolatry, hypocrisy with strangers and family members and all the like are in the air, in abundance. The demonic power of "Christ" mas includes a seduction of the flesh which is warm, fuzzy and intoxicating. It strokes every sense of the flesh with smells, sights, sounds, and a "spirit" in the air - literally. Or it totally depresses them. Suicide is higher this time of year than any other time. "No one even cares for me at "Christ" mas time," is a common thought. During this time of year, "Christian" people are supposed to be glad that at least once a year people's attention is on Jesus. The facts are, people are probably more concentrated on themselves during this time than any other time. References to Jesus, the nativity, the virgin birth and singing all these beautiful songs about Him, seems to only allow people to feel more justified in their sin and more callused to those truths and words later. It blinds and hypnotizes them.Many people feel justified or appease their conscience by putting a manger scene in front of their tree or donating food or money to the Salvation Army; going caroling or going to a "Christ" mas Eve service. Some people are sincere about wanting to celebrate Jesus' birthday and believe that others can be reached with the gospel during this time of year. But for the one person who might come to know Jesus as a result of something he heard during this season, there will be thousands of others who will be further and further away from knowing who Jesus really is and what that means for their lives. The fruit shows itself to be very related to roots. Hypocrisy and shallowness of heart produces hypocrisy and shallowness of heart. Take exchanging gifts for example. Is it really gift giving or is it possession exchanging? If someone gives something, how often would there be a person who honestly doesn't want something back. Very rarely. Greed and self-centeredness are bred into children. This holiday does not draw people to an exalted Christ. It mocks Him and pulls people away from Him. Just as the soldiers mocked Jesus when they crucified Him. They put a robe on Him, a crown of thorns on His head and said, "Behold the King of the Jews." Today, scripture says, that rebellious sin crucifies Him again. And in the middle of rebellious sin, people sing, "Silent night, HOLY night." In reality, it's children of Satan singing songs about Jesus. God sees it as blasphemy because their hearts are far from Him. The Father is not pleased; He is angry. And we will be too if we see His Son and the name of His Son the way He does. One of the things most important to Him to say to His People when He first revealed Himself on Mt. Sinai was, "DO NOT use my name in vain!!!" Wouldn't you say that a choir or a group of intoxicated "carolers" singing joyously about "baby Jesus" and the "HOLY night" to a group of folks that also have little or no intention of obeying Jesus in their personal lives - wouldn't THAT qualify as using His name in vain, the most grotesque form of hypocrisy?"Wouldn't it better if the name of Christ was completely disassociated with Christmas? If the birth of Christ was celebrated by people around the world with orgies would you want Jesus' name to be associated with it or anything to do with it? Just because materialism and greed is so culturally ingrained into the mind of so many doesn't mean that celebrating the birth of Jesus this way is any less of an abomination then celebrating His birth with orgies. Again - wouldn't it better if the name of Christ was completely disassociated with Christmas? Just some food for thought.

Christisking, :-) The way you described Christmas makes me not want to observe it either.It strokes every sense of the flesh with smells, sights, sounds, and a "spirit" in the air - literally.Wouldn't you say that a choir or a group of intoxicated "carolers" singing joyously about "baby Jesus" ...the most grotesque form of hypocrisy?"Or it totally depresses them. Suicide is higher this time of year than any other time. If the birth of Christ was celebrated by people around the world with orgies would you want Jesus' name to be associated with it or anything to do with it? Since you asked for some thinking food let me suggest you apply this approach to other things Christians do. You will find enough fleshly examples of bad worship, bad preaching, bad marriages, and bad churches to consider never participating in these things because of the shameful behavior of others. Honestly I think this issue is just another example of sectarianism that Christians seem to find purpose in. We become clannish over the most obtuse concerns. If we invent enough rules and regulations we'll eventually make backsliders and hypocrites out of all of us.MC

Is cutting out Christmas drawing you away from Christ?? Is celebrating Christmas a SIN?? I think not. The bible says to "enjoy life".Not celebrating Christmas is bordering LEGALISM. Does cutting out christmas get me closer God, and thats the question!!!???

Since you asked for some thinking food let me suggest you apply this approach to other things Christians do. You will find enough fleshly examples of bad worship, bad preaching, bad marriages, and bad churches to consider never participating in these things because of the shameful behavior of others. Honestly I think this issue is just another example of sectarianism that Christians seem to find purpose in. We become clannish over the most obtuse concerns. If we invent enough rules and regulations we'll eventually make backsliders and hypocrites out of all of us.Well said MC. Think the bad preaching alone is far greater a problem, yet as you intimated, really is the issue more that we are particularly grieved or just bitter?

I think the earlier posts clearly expose the fallacy of this statement. It is NOT insprired by Christ, but by a desire to combine the kingdom of God with the kingdom of the world. That should be quite obvious when we look at our practises surrounding this holiday season.As a counterpoint to this thought, here some thoughts taken from an article by Greg Koukl...The question of whether Christmas is pagan enters into the idea of cultural practices. Some have made the assertion that Christmas has pagan origins. Christmas does not have pagan origins, but there are winter celebrations that are pagan. There was, for example, a saturnal celebration around the time of Christmas that pagans celebrated, which was actually a temptation for Christians to participate in that had pagan content to it. So the church changed the day that they celebrated the birth of Christ. They used to celebrate it in the Spring. But the church said, "We can celebrate it any time we want. Let's celebrate it at the same time the pagans are celebrating their pagan festival. It'll act as a contrast to that pagan festival because our celebration is the birth of the God-man, Jesus Christ. It has Biblical content. Plus it will protect Christians from being wooed away by this other celebration to participate in what was a pagan celebration". It was really a wise thing that they did and the kind of thing that many missionaries do even nowadays. They take the momentum of a cultural practice--a cultural practice that may even have religious content to it, offensive religious content--and they redeem that for Christianity. They redefine what people have been doing. They reinvest it with new meaning. They capture the cultural form and they reinvest it with spiritual meaning. We've done that many times. We've done that in other cultures and it served to offer a springboard for us into cultures using cultural forms and reinvesting them with new meaning. If you read Don Richardson's books Eternity in Their Hearts or Peace Child, this is what he talks about. They captured cultural forms that had one meaning and reinvested it with a new meaning, and this became a springboard to reach into these cultures with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And we've done the same thing with Christmas...My point is that we have liberty in reinvesting cultural forms with spiritual meaning. We have done that with Christmas. I don't think there is anything wrong with that at all. I think it's good and healthy for us to do so.In Christ,Ron

The way you described Christmas makes me not want to observe it either.Good! But it is not me who wrote that description. I believe it was Mike Peters for All At His Feet, but I would have to double check. I think it is a pretty factual and common view of Christmas. I am not dogmatic about the celebration one way or the other - each has to make up their own mind and follow what is their current understanding. I think that the reason it seems like those who are against the celebration seem more contentious in their argument is that when you are shown things that are evil or an abomination to God you naturally want to warn those who have not been shown these things yet. I think we have all experienced this to at least some degree in our Christian experience - some more then others. Can you think of away that you have experience such a thing - have you come out of a false doctrine or teaching or legalism or such? This is were most who hold an opposing view of Christimas are coming from. We don't think that it is a matter of salvation or that you will be cast into hell for celebrating Christmas, by any means. We just want to eagerly and ernestly warn and tell others about what we feel God has opened our eyes to and has shown us, that's all.Honestly I think this issue is just another example of sectarianism that Christians seem to find purpose in. We become clannish over the most obtuse concerns. If we invent enough rules and regulations we'll eventually make backsliders and hypocrites out of all of us.Very well put MC, you are my brother in Christ no matter what you do as far as Christmas goes. We should be able to share personal convictions, opinions, ideas, what God has reveled to us and different ways of thinking without it causing division or animosity. There are plenty of issues to take a definitive stand on that are directly related to a persons salvation. This is not one of them.Think the bad preaching alone is far greater a problem, yet as you intimated, really is the issue more that we are particularly grieved or just bitter?I agree that bad preaching and many others issues are a far greater problem, but this is a thread about if we should celebrate Christmas not bad preaching, so that is what we are discussing. As for me brother, grieved, grieved, grieved, grieved. It is very easy when still walking in the flesh to become bitter when you see Christ being put to open shame in front of the whole world, but when you are dead bitterness is an emotion you no longer have. The understandable bitterness turns to grief, sadness, weeping and tears.

...MC, you are my brother in Christ no matter what you do as far as Christmas goes. We should be able to share personal convictions, opinions, ideas, what God has reveled to us and different ways of thinking without it causing division or animosity.That works for me brother!There was... a saturnal celebration around the time of Christmas that pagans celebrated,...and they redeem that for Christianity. They redefine what people have been doing. They reinvest it with new meaning. They capture the cultural form and they reinvest it with spiritual meaning. We've done that many times. We've done that in other cultures and it served to offer a springboard for us into cultures using cultural forms and reinvesting them with new meaning.This is how I can't help but see it. Whatever superstitious winter festival was happening in the ancient world is long gone, but Christ, His Church and His gospel still lives! Ancient Christians were not living on the moon...they had to start here with what they knew and the world they lived in. That doesn't make it right or wrong per se...just cultural or at least contextual.MC PS. has anyone heard that Rudolf the Red Nosed Reindeer was originally a socially polite nickname for spiked eggnog...and that the Easter Bunny came from an Aztec Rabbit deity? (Just kidding :-P )

Thanks Karl,Just canned my response... it was to disjointed.MC, thanks as well, think you got out what I would have been attempting by long discourse.Maybe, just maybe what it needs is not support (as it is primarily, generally speaking) nor banishment (Here's a left over quip from trash can: "Think you would find more truly idolatrous behavior the way some people treat their cars, not how they decorate a Christmas tree.") neither of those two, but redemption and restoration.It really, if anybody, ought to belong to us as a Holy - day.

Merry Christmas to the little children, Merry Christmas to the followers of Christ.This might be YOUR best chance this year to tell someone about the little baby in the manger and why he was born, and the 300 plus prophecies He fulfilled.The Stores are playing songs of worship to Jesus Christ, only this time of year and most do not even know it, and you want to stop, and surrender it?This is the day we celebrate the most important birth in the history of the world.The only parts of Christmas I pray against is the vicious advertisement aimed at the little children. And the materialism that grips so many into deep debt. Thank You Wall Street.