Col. 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. This thread will continue to develop and highlight the "traditions of men" that are spread "through philosophy and empty deceit." Why? Paul warns the believer that they can be cheated by these basic principles of the world. 2Cor. 6:11 O Corinthians! We have spoken openly to you, our heart is wide open. 12 You are not restricted by us, but you are restricted by your own affections. As it was possible for the Corinthians to suffer from the basic philosophies and empty deciet of the world, so it is possible today.In ChristJeff
Days Are Evil, II
Rookie,Are you saying that a person confident and secure in their Christian faith cannot, for example, study and learn from Buddism? Is there nothing to learn from the religious experiences of other cultures and faiths?(I'm not saying that we adopt these beliefs, but rather that we understand them to better understand the world in which we live.)Bubbaguy
Beware of seducing spirits
I completely disagree with studying false religions to learn more about the world.Understand this: If Jesus was who he says he was, then he is the only way to God (Jn 14:6). If that's true, then all other "paths" are false, and as he put it, are a part of the wide road. To be more blunt, they are not only "askew", they are lies from Hell, and that's where they're taking people! To study the lies of Satan in hopes of becoming more worldly is playing with fire. I've said before that there's a place for an apologist to know the ways of the enemy, but to learn from the enemy in hopes of gaining what you might view as some of his better qualities is not right. To quote Ravenhill summerizing what Paul said of the world, "It's antichrist from the word 'Go'".As for me and my house, we shall serve the Lord. Don't get involved in the false things of this world.Grace and Peace...
Bubbaguy wrote:Are you saying that a person confident and secure in their Christian faith cannot, for example, study and learn from Buddism? Is there nothing to learn from the religious experiences of other cultures and faiths?Are there any examples in the Scriptures where a saint is depicted as studying other religions? Once the Truth takes hold all other thoughts are put into subjection. There is no other wisdom, there is only dross.The only thing that one might glean from false religion is the ways of fallen man and the hopelessness that permeates their lives.In ChristJeff
(continuation of U.S. Population Policy adopted in 1974, Nssm200)" The following areas appear to contain significant promise in effecting fertility declines, and are discussed in subsequent sections. providing minimal levels of education especially for women; reducing infant and child mortality; expanding opportunities for wage employment especially for women; developing alternatives to "social security" support provided by children to aging parents; pursuing development strategies that skew income growth toward the poor, especially rural development focusing on rural poverty; concentrating on the education and indoctrination of the rising generation of children regarding the desirability of smaller family size." Do you see the seeds that were planted 30 years ago? Look especially to the thought of encouraging women into the work force. Also look to the very last sentence regarding the children. "concentrating on the education and indoctrination of the rising generation of children"Do you see how the humanists view the battle. They are seeking to indoctrinate the "rising generation of children."Do you see how the true battles are waged? In ChristJeff
(continuation of U.S. Population Policy Nssm200)... The most recent forum for such an effort was the August 1974 U.N. World Population Conference. It was an ideal context to focus concerted world attention on the problem. The debate views and highlights of the World Population Plan of action are reviewed in Chapter VI. The U.S. strengthened its credibility as an advocate of lower population growth rates by explaining that, while it did not have a single written action population policy, it did have legislation, Executive Branch policies and court decisions that amounted to a national policy and that our national fertility level was already below replacement and seemed likely to attain a stable population by 2000...."Please notice this statement: "Executive Branch policies and court decisions that amounted to a national policy..."What court decisions are these? Roe vs Wade was decided one year prior to this policy paper. Do you see how the government looked at abortion? They treated abortion as a means of fertility reduction. In ChristJeff
(continuation of U.S. Population policy paper Nssm200)3. Expanding Wage Employment Opportunities, Especially for Women Discussion Employment is the key to access to income, which opens the way to improved health, education, nutrition, and reduced family size. Reliable job opportunities enable parents to limit their family size and invest in the welfare of the children they have. The status and utilization of women in LDC societies is particularly important in reducing family size. For women, employment outside the home offers an alternative to early marriage and childbearing, and an incentive to have fewer children after marriage. The woman who must stay home to take care of her children must forego the income she could earn outside the home. Research indicates that female wage employment outside the home is related to fertility reduction. Programs to increase the women's labor force participation must, however, take account of the overall demand for labor; this would be a particular problem in occupations where there is already widespread unemployment among males. But other occupations where women have a comparative advantage can be encouraged. Improving the legal and social status of women gives women a greater voice in decision-making about their lives, including family size, and can provide alternative opportunities to childbearing, thereby reducing the benefits of having children. The U.S. Delegation to the Bucharest Conference emphasized the importance of improving the general status of women and of developing employment opportunities for women outside the home and off the farm. It was joined by all countries in adopting a strong statement on this vital issue. See Chapter VI for a fuller discussion of the conference. Recommendation: 1. AID should communicate with and seek opportunities to assist national economic development programs to increase the role of women in the development process. 2. AID should review its education/training programs (such as U.S. participant training, in-country and third-country training) to see that such activities provide equal access to women. 3. AID should enlarge pre-vocational and vocational training to involve women more directly in learning skills which can enhance their income and status in the community (e.g. paramedical skills related to provision of family planning services). 4. AID should encourage the development and placement of LDC women as decision-makers in development programs, particularly those programs designed to increase the role of women as producers of goods and services, and otherwise to improve women's welfare (e.g. national credit and finance programs, and national health and family planning programs). 5. AID should encourage, where possible, women's active participation in the labor movement in order to promote equal pay for equal work, equal benefits, and equal employment opportunities. Do you see how these recommendations have come to fruitition in our own communities? How many children have been lost to the pursuit of money, self-esteem, and the pursuit of power? There is a wealthy community close to where I live. In Santa Clarita both parents work. They have 3000 and 4000 square foot homes. They drive expensive cars. Their children have the best money can buy. Yet is is surprising to know that some of the same children end up walking the streets of Hollywood Blvd. Luke 16:13 “No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.”In ChristJeff
(Just two more post left from the population policy Nssm200)"IV. A. Research to Improve Fertility Control Technology Discussion The effort to reduce population growth requires a variety of birth control methods which are safe, effective, inexpensive and attractive to both men and women. The developing countries in particular need methods which do not require physicians and which are suitable for use in primitive, remote rural areas or urban slums by people with relatively low motivation. Experiences in family planning have clearly demonstrated the crucial impact of improved technology on fertility control. None of the currently available methods of fertility control is completely effective and free of adverse reactions and objectionable characteristics. The ideal of a contraceptive, perfect in all these respects, may never be realized. A great deal of effort and money will be necessary to improve fertility control methods. The research to achieve this aim can be divided into two categories: 1. Short-term approaches : These include applied and developmental work which is required to perfect further and evaluate the safety and role of methods demonstrated to be effective in family planning programs in the developing countries. Other work is directed toward new methods based on well established knowledge about the physiology of reproduction. Although short term pay-offs are possible, successful development of some methods may take 5 years and up to $15 million for a single method. 2. Long-term approaches : The limited state of fundamental knowledge of many reproductive processes requires that a strong research effort of a more basic nature be maintained to elucidate these processes and provide leads for contraceptive development research. For example, new knowledge of male reproductive processes is needed before research to develop a male "pill" can come to fruition. Costs and duration of the required research are high and difficult to quantify. With expenditures of about $30 million annually, a broad program of basic and applied bio-medical research on human reproduction and contraceptive development is carried out by the Center for Population Research of the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development. The Agency for International Development annually funds about $5 million of principally applied research on new means of fertility control suitable for use in developing countries. Smaller sums are spent by other agencies of the U.S. Government. Coordination of the federal research effort is facilitated by the activities of the Interagency Committee on Population Research. This committee prepares an annual listing and analyses of all government supported population research programs. The listing is published in the Inventory of Federal Population Research .A variety of studies have been undertaken by non-governmental experts including the U.S. Commission on Population Growth and the American Future. Most of these studies indicate that the United States effort in population research is insufficient. Opinions differ on how much more can be spent wisely and effectively but an additional $25-50 million annually for bio-medical research constitutes a conservative estimate. Recommendations: A stepwise increase over the next 3 years to a total of about $100 million annually for fertility and contraceptive research is recommended. This is an increase of $60 million over the current $40 million expended annually by the major Federal Agencies for bio-medical research. Of this increase $40 million would be spent on short-term, goal directed research. The current expenditure of $20 million in long-term approaches consisting largely of basic bio-medical research would be doubled. This increased effort would require significantly increased staffing of the federal agencies which support this work. Areas recommended for further research are: 1. Short-term approaches : These approaches include improvement and field testing of existing technology and development of new technology. It is expected that some of these approaches would be ready for use within five years. Specific short term approaches worthy of increased effort are as follows: a. Oral contraceptives have become popular and widely used; yet the optimal steroid hormone combinations and doses for LDC populations need further definition. Field studies in several settings are required. Approx. Increased Cost: $3 million annually. b. Intra-uterine devices of differing size, shape, and bioactivity should be developed and tested to determine the optimum levels of effectiveness, safety, and acceptability. Approx. Increased Cost: $3 million annually. c. Improved methods for ovulation prediction will be important to those couples who wish to practice rhythm with more assurance of effectiveness than they now have. Approx. Increased Cost: $3 million annually. d. Sterilization of men and women has received wide-spread acceptance in several areas when a simple, quick, and safe procedure is readily available. Female sterilization has been improved by technical advances with laparoscopes, culdoscopes, and greatly simplifies abdominal surgical techniques. Further improvements by the use of tubal clips, trans-cervical approaches, and simpler techniques can be developed. For men several current techniques hold promise but require more refinement and evaluation. Approx. Increased Cost $6 million annually. e. Injectable contraceptives for women which are effective for three months or more and are administered by para-professionals undoubtedly will be a significant improvement. Currently available methods of this type are limited by their side effects and potential hazards. There are reasons to believe that these problems can be overcome with additional research. Approx. Increased Cost: $5 million annually. f. Leuteolytic and anti-progesterone approaches to fertility control including use of prostaglandins are theoretically attractive but considerable work remains to be done. Approx. Increased Cost: $7 million annually. g. Non-Clinical Methods . Additional research on non-clinical methods including foams, creams, and condoms is needed. These methods can be used without medical supervision. Approx. Increased Cost; $5 million annually. h. Field studies . Clinical trials of new methods in use settings are essential to test their worth in developing countries and to select the best of several possible methods in a given setting. Approx. Increased Cost: $8 million annually. 2. Long-term approaches : Increased research toward better understanding of human reproductive physiology will lead to better methods of fertility control for use in five to fifteen years. A great deal has yet to be learned about basic aspects of male and female fertility and how regulation can be effected. For example, an effective and safe male contraceptive is needed, in particular an injection which will be effective for specified periods of time. Fundamental research must be done but there are reasons to believe that the development of an injectable male contraceptive is feasible. Another method which should be developed is an injection which will assure a woman of regular periods. The drug would be given by para-professionals once a month or as needed to regularize the menstrual cycle. Recent scientific advances indicate that this method can be developed. Approx. Increased Cost: $20 million annually. "Do you see how these efforts, started back in 1967, have manifested themselves in our communities today? These efforts have been successful in the Post Christian west. These efforts have failed though in all the countries that we now fear. In ChristJeff
Last thought gleaned from Nssm2006. Concentration on Education and Indoctrination of The Rising Generation of Children Regarding the Desirability of Smaller Family Size Discussion: Present efforts at reducing birth rates in LDCs, including AID and UNFPA assistance, are directed largely at adults now in their reproductive years. Only nominal attention is given to population education or sex education in schools and in most countries none is given in the very early grades which are the only attainment of 2/3-3/4 of the children. It should be obvious, however, that efforts at birth control directed toward adults will with even maximum success result in acceptance of contraception for the reduction of births only to the level of the desired family size -- which knowledge, attitude and practice studies in many countries indicate is an average of four or more children. The great necessity is to convince the masses of the population that it is to their individual and national interest to have, on the average, only three and then only two children. There is little likelihood that this result can be accomplished very widely against the background of the cultural heritage of today's adults, even the young adults, among the masses in most LDCs. Without diminishing in any way the effort to reach these adults, the obvious increased focus of attention should be to change the attitudes of the next generation, those who are now in elementary school or younger. If this could be done, it would indeed be possible to attain a level of fertility approaching replacement in 20 years and actually reaching it in 30. Because a large percentage of children from high-fertility, low-income groups do not attend school, it will be necessary to develop means to reach them for this and other educational purposes through informal educational programs. In these few paragraphs we find the source for the promotion of sex education in our schools.We find that the schools are used to indoctrinate the children. The battle that is waged by the humanists is centered on our children. In ChristJeff
Sorry one more last thought from Nssm200. Another thread today spoke of the dissemination of lies of Satan by use of the TV. Well in the U.S. Policy Paper Nssm200, the government highlights this media as a means to educate reasonable people."C. Utilization of Mass Media and Satellite Communications Systems for Family Planning 1. Utilization of Mass Media for Dissemination of Family Planning Services and Information The potential of education and its various media is primarily a function of (a) target populations where socio-economic conditions would permit REASONABLE PEOPLE to change their behavior with the receipt of information about family planning and (b) the adequate development of the substantive motivating context of the message. While dramatic limitations in the availability of any family planning related message are most severe in rural areas of developing countries, even more serious gaps exist in the understanding of the implicit incentives in the system for large families and the potential of the informational message to alter those conditions. So in this paper, we have been given a glimpse into the ways governments in their wisdom seek to indoctrinate the subject people. We have seen that these efforts are long term projects which seek to form the beliefs of future generations. Scripturally speaking, doesn't this highlight the precept of apostacy? Do you see how it is a spiritual battle? In ChristJeff
For the sake of continuity of the thought developed I would like to post from the previous thread 3 former posts from the book "The Death of the West," by Patrick J. Buchanan.(thought continued from the book page 32)(A) The New Economy.In an agricultural economy, the workplace was the home where the husband and wife labored together and lived together. In the industrial economy, the man left the home to work in a factory, while the wife stayed home to look after the children. The agricultural economy gave us the extended family; the industrial economy, the nuclear family. But in the postindustrial economy, husband and wife both work at the office, and no one stays home with the children. Indeed, there may be no children. As political science professor James Kurth of Swarthmore writes:"The greatest movement of the second half of the nineteenth century was the movement of men from farm to the factory.... The greatest movement of the second half of the twentieth century has been the movement of women from the home to the office...[This] movement separates the parent from the children, as well as enabling the wife to separate herself from her husband. By splitting the nuclear family, it is helping to bring about the replacement of the nuclear family with the non-family."As men's jobs in manufacturing, mining, farming, and fishing are no longer needed, or are shipped overseas, the skills and talents of women are now more desirable. There are also opportunities in government, education, and the professions open to women today that their mothers and grandmothers never had. Businesses, large and small, offer packages of pay and benefits to lure talented women out of the home and keep them out of the maternity ward, where they are "no good to the company." It is working. In the scores of millions, American women have left the home for the office to work beside and compete with men. By the tens of millions, women college graduates have put off marriage, many forever. "You can have it all!" the modern woman is told--baby and a career. With nannies, courtesy of open borders, with equal-pay-for-equal work, maternity leave, and daycare, courtesy of the government and the company, the lure is not a lie. What you can't have is a brood of kids back home while keeping pace with the competition at the office.Forced to choose, women are choosing career, or career and the joy of motherhood, once. The Global Economy works hand in hand with the New Economy, transfering manufacturing jobs from high wage Western nations to the low-wage, newly industrialized nations of Asia and Latin America. With Working America's yellow brick road to the middle class down to one lane, wives must work to keep up with the Jones next door. So children are put off, sometimes for good. In 1950, 88 percent of women with children under six stayed home, where they often had more kids. Today, 64 percent of American women with children under six are in the labor force."How you gonna keep' em down on the farm, after they've seen Paree?" was said of the World War I soldiers who went off to Europe. Well, how you gonna get' em back in the 'burbs, after they've seen D.C. one might ask of the talented women lawyers, journalists, PR specialists, and political aides who have enjoyed the great game in an exciting city.Writing in the Spectator, Eleanor Mills is an authentic voice of her generation; "The fact is that girls like me--ie. healthy, hearty, middle-class women in their 20s--are just not breeding." Why not? Because, she writes, "my generation's twin preoccupations are, unfortunately, looks and money." She quotes one of her many childless contemporaries;"If I had a kid," said Jane, and advertising executive, thoughtfully, "I wouldn't be able to do half the things I take for granted. Every Saturday at 10:30 am when we are still in bed, my husband and I look at each other and just say, "Thank God we weren't up at 5 a.m. caring for a brat." We have such a great time just the two of us; who know if it would work if we introduced another person into the equation?""The rich are different from us," said F. Scott Fitzgerald. To which Hemingway replied, "Yes, they have more money." But the rich also have fewer children. Using Occam's razor--the somplest explanation is usually the right one--the best explaination for the sinking birthrate in the West may be the simplest. As America's poor enter the middle class, and the middle class becomes affluent, and the affluent become rich, each adopts the style of the class they have lately entered. All begin to downsize their families; all begin to have fewer children. A corollary follows; The richer a nation becomes, the fewer its children, and the sooner it begins to die. Societies organized to ensure the maximum pleasure, freedom, and happiness for all their members are, at the same time, advancing the date of their own funerals. Fate may compensate the Chinese, Islamic, and Latin peoples for their hardships and poverty in this century with the domination of the earth in the next. Indeed, do we not have it on high authority that "Blessed are the meek...they shall inherit the earth?"end of thoughtIn Christjeff
Page 35(B) End of the "Family Wage."In the 1830s, as America's industrial revolution was about to begin, the Philadelphia Trade Union warned its members about the hidden agenda of what it called "cormorant capital":"Oppose [employment of our women folks] with all your minds and with all your strength for it will prove our ruin. We must strive to obtain sufficient remuneration for our labor to keep the wives and daughters and sisters of our people at home... That cormorant capital will have every man, woman, and child to toil: but let us exert our families to oppose its design."In 1848, the year of Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto, the labor publication Ten Hour Advocate editorialized: "We hope the day is not distant when the husband will be able to provide for his wife and family, without sending [the wife] to endure the drudgery of a cotton mill.?This vison of American free labor was at war with the view being espoused by Marx and his patron and collaborator, Friedrich Engels, who wrote in The Origin of the Family, Private Property, and the State; "The first condition for the liberation of the wife is to bring the whole female sex into public industry and ...this in turn demands the abolition of the monogamous family as the economic unit of societ." Is it not a remarkable coincidence how global capitalism's view of women--as units of production, liberated from husbands, home, and family--conforms so precisely to the view of the fathers of global communism?As Allan Carlson, who also publishes The Family in America, writes, there was a consensus in America, not so long ago, that employers should pay fathers a "family wage" sufficient to support their wives and children in dignity without their having to leave the home to go to work. That was considered one of the defining characteristics of a good society. ...This idea was widely accepted. Carlson notes that the "wage gap" between men and women actually widened after World War II. In 1939, women earned 59.3 percent of men's pay; by 1966, that had fallen to 53.6 percent. In the 1940s and 1950s, the culture, with a good conscience, separated men and women in the workplace. In newspapers, the "Men Wanted" ads were run separate from the "Women Wanted" ads. Only rarely could working women be found outside such occupations as clerk-typist, secretary, nurse, school teacher, or salegirl. Carlson writes:"To an observer from the Year 2000, the most amazing thing about this system was that it was both understood by the average people and popularly supported. In opinion polls, large majorities of Americans (85 percent or more), women and men, agreed that fathers deserved as income that would support their wives and children at home and that the labor of mothers was secondary or supplemental. This was seen as simple justice."This system fell apart in the 1960s, when feminists managed to add "sex" to the discriminations forbidden by the sweeping Civil Rights Act of 1964, which had been written to protect the rights of African Americans. This turned the new Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) into a siege gun against the family wage. "Men Wanted" ads were declared discriminatory and outlawed. Gender equality replaced "moral contract." The rights of individuals took precedence over the requirements of family. Women's pay soared, and as women began moving into occupations that had been largely restrictived to men--medicine, law, the media, the academy, the upper bureaucracy, and business--families began to crumble. Between 1973 and 1996, writes Dr. Carlson, "the [real] median income of men, aged 15 and above, working full-time, fell 24 percent, from $37,200 to $30,000," Marching under feminist banners--equal pay for equal work, and equal pay for comparable work--women moved into direct competition with men. Millions succeeded, shouldering men aside with superior performance. Their pay rose steadily, and the absolute and relative pay of married men began to yield to wives' insistence that they " go back to work." Young men found they no longer earned enough in their late teens or early twenties to start a family, even if that had been their hope and dream. Stripped of the duties of fatherhood and family, many of these young men wound up in trouble--and even in prison.America's young women found they could achieve independance on their own. They need not get married, certainly not yet. More and more did not marry. In 1970, only 36 percent of women aged twenty to twenty-four were unmarried. By 1995, 68 percent were in the "never married" category. Among women twenty-five to twenty-nine, the "never marrieds" had soared from 10 percent to 35 percent.The young family with a batch of kids is now an endangered species. Only the young rich can afford that "lifestyle," and they are uninterested. With the Democratic party so beholden to feminism that it cannot even oppose partial birth abortions, and the GOP in thrall to libertarian ideology and controlled by corporate interests, the call of the gods of the marketplace for more women workers prevails over the command of the God of Genesis: "Be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth." Many conservatives have succumbed to the heresy of Economism, a mirror-Marxism that holds that man is an economic animal, that free trade and free markets are the path to peace, prosperity, and happiness, that if we can only get the marginal tax rates right and the capital gains tax abolished, Paradise--Dow 36,000!--is at hand. But when the income tax rate for the wealthiest was above 90 percent in the 1950s, America, by every moral and social indicator, was a better country. The reformed radical and Christian convert Orestes Brownson saw this new idolatry of "Mammon worship" rising in the America of the nineteenth century: "Mammonism has become the religion of Saxodom, and God is not in all our thoughts. We have lost our faith in the noble, the beautiful and the just." A century later, another convert from a failed materialistic faith would remind us again. Wrote Whittaker Chambers, "Economics is not the central problem of our age, faith is."In ChristJeff
page 38(C) The Population Bomb Hysteria.Then there was the antipeople movement of the 1960s and 1970s, the elite's backlash against the baby boom. Paul Ehrlich, a Stanford University biologist, was its guru, and his bestseller, The Population Bomb, did for population control what Rachel Carson's Silent Spring had done for environmentalism. Ehrlich was a twentieth-century reincarnation of Thomas Robert Malthus, the British demographer whose prediction of world starvation proved so spectacularly wrong in the nineteenth century. Malthus had written: "It may be safely asserted....that population, when unchecked, increases in geometrical progression of such a nature as to double itself every twenty-five years." As the world's food production could not double every twenty-five years, said the gloomy parson, mass starvation was dead ahead. Malthus proved as wrong about food production as Ehrlich did about the world's resources, which he assured us were running out. Today, the six billion on earth live in far greater freedom and prosperity than did the three billion in 1960, the two billion in 1927, or the one billion in 1830. Political incompetence and criminality, foolish ideas and insane ideologies, are the cause of starvation and misery, not people.Published by the Sierra Club, Ehrlich's book became required reading in many high schools. By 1977, former secretary of defense and World Bank president Robert McNamara was playing Henny Penny to Ehrlich's Chicken Little, warning that "continued population growth would cause "poverty, hunger, stress, crowding, and frustration," that would threaten social, economic and military stability." In 1978, a congressional select committee on population announced that the "major biological systems that humanity depends upon....are being strained by rapid population growth...[and] in some cases, they are.... losing productive capacity." As Jacqueline Kasun, author of The War Against Population, writes, about this time the Smithsonian Institution created a "traveling exhibit for schoolchildren called "Population: The Problem Is Us, " [that] featured a picture of a dead rat on a dinner plate as an example of "future food sources."As a result of this antipopulation propaganda from America's elite institutions of politics and ideas, the public funding for population control here and abroad exploded. But though the message was taken to heart by the First World wealthy and middle class, it was largely ignored by the Third World poor, at whom it had been targeted. We can see the results today: a birth dearth among the affluent nations, and baby boom across the Third World.end of thoughtIn ChristJeff
The portions of the U.S. Population Policy Paper Nssm200 posted in the beginning of this new thread fit into this last post as a means of further developing the manifestations of population decline in western society. From this point forward I have a few more posts that illustrate the decline of western populations and culture. All of these manifestations have as their root the religion of humanism.In Christ Jeff
(D) Feminism.To be “pro-choice” on abortion is today almost a defining mark of the “modern woman.” To many feminists, the phase “women’s” liberation from the traditional and, in their view, narrow and constricting roles of wife, mother, and homemaker. But among the founding mothers of feminism it was not always so. Writing on the Supreme Court’s Roe v. Wade decision in The New Oxford Review, Catholic columnist Joseph Collison observed:“Early feminists had been fiercely antiabortion. Elizabeth Cady Stanton, organizer of the first women’s rights convention in 1848, called abortion “a disgusting and degrading crime.”…. And Susan B. Anthony, early crusader for the women’s vote, wrote that “No matter what the motive…the woman is awfully guilty who commits the deed. It will burden her conscience in life; it will burden her soul in death.” It was in fact the 19th century feminists who campaigned to pass the laws that criminalized abortion.”Collison adds that in early editions of The Feminist Mystique, Betty Friedan’s seminal work, abortion went unmentioned. It was not a feminist issue in the early 1960s. Back before World War II, when Margaret Sanger, birth mother of Planned Parenthood, wrote that “the most merciful thing a large family can do to one of its infant members is to kill it,” she was a radical socialist far outside the American mainstream. But the Sanger animus against big families has since become a central feature of the new American feminism that was mainstreamed in the 1960s and 1970s. Today, the perception that marriage is human bondage has become a hallmark of movement militants. Marriage, writes Andrea Dworkin in “Pornography: Men Possessing Women,” is “an institution [that] developed from rape as a practice. Rape, originally defined as abduction, became marriage by capture. Marriage meant the taking was to extend in time, to be not only use but possession of ownership.” Pure Marx. And a logical conclusion follows. “The nuclear family must be destroyed, “ said the feminist Linda Gordon. “Families have supported oppression by separating people into small, isolated units, unable to join together to fight for common interests.” In 1970, Robin Morgan, now the nanny of Gloria Steinem’s love child, Ms. Magazine, called marriage “a slavery-like practice. We can’t destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage.” That same year, Ms. Morgan edited Sisterhood Is Powerful, containing an essay by Valerie Solanis, president of the Society for Cutting Up Men. “It is now technically possible to reproduce without the aid of males…and to produce only females,” wrote Ms. Solanis. “We must begin immediately to do so. The male is a biological accident…The male has made the world a shitpile.” Not a lady to be trifled with, Ms Solanis established her bona fides by going out and shooting Andy Warhol. By late 1973, Nancy Lehmann and Helen Sullinger had circulated a new manifesto of the movement they titled “Declaration of Feminism, which was broadly reproduced and widely praised:“Marriage has existed for the benefit of men; and has been a legally sanctioned method of control over women….We must work to destroy it…The end of the institution of marriage is a necessary condition for the liberation of women. Therefore it is important for us to encourage women to leave their husbands and not to live individually with men…All of history must be rewritten in terms of oppression of women. We must go back to ancient female religions like witchcraft.” (thought to be continued)This is a spiritual battle. Little do we know how pervasive Satan’s attack is. Little do we understand how the religion of humanism permeates our own beliefs. But how can we escape? Heb. 5:12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.In ChristJeff
Hi Jeff,It is amazing how you have pulled this altogether going back to the last posting. A monumental work and much appreciation for it. Some very eye opening things in here, the ideologies of the world and of the politics thereof...Found this a bit of a tongue-twister to think about for a moment;Political incompetence and criminality, foolish ideas and insane ideologies, are the cause of starvation and misery, not people.Surely the effort was meant to mean 'people' as in population control but...This is a spiritual battle. Little do we know how pervasive Satan’s attack is. Little do we understand how the religion of humanism permeates our own beliefs. But how can we escape? Very true, it permeates everything doesn't it? (Humanism) How to escape? It seems to lend more and more credence to that word; "Endurance" as this continues to play out and one that the Lord told us we must have and do...2Ti 1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Brother Mike wrote:Very true, it permeates everything doesn't it? (Humanism) How to escape? It seems to lend more and more credence to that word; "Endurance" as this continues to play out and one that the Lord told us we must have and do...Just think of the distinction that Paris Reidhead makes in his sermon Ten Shekels and a Shirt. Humanism is rooted in the pursuit of the happiness of man. Think about the distinction the Lord taught him about his own motives for serving God. This is a man who loved the Lord. What about those who hate the Lord? To what depth of depravity will the pursuit of happiness drive the world? I keep hearing the word "FREEDOM." Why is this word so appealing to the masses of men? In ChristJeff
(Feminism thought continued from page 41)“Among feminists, the slavery simile competes with the prostitution metaphor. “Being a housewife is an illegitimate profession,” wrote Vivian Gornick, Penn State professor and author, in 1980. “The choice to serve and be protected and plan toward being a family-member is a choice that shouldn’t be. The heart of radical feminism is to change that.”“I can’t mate in captivity,” Gloria Steinem told a Newsweek reporter in 1984. In a 1991 Wall Street Journal piece, Christina Sommers quotes legal scholar Catherine Mackinnon as saying: “Feminism stresses the indistinguishability of prostitution, marriage and sexual harassment.” To the militant feminist, marriage is prostitution, and the family is at best a failed institution and at worst a prison or slave quarter. A decade ago, novelist Toni Morrison told Time, “The little nuclear family is a paradigm that doesn’t work.” In 1994, the Chicago Tribune quoted Judith Stacey: “The belief that married-couple families are superior is probably the most pervasive prejudice in the Western world. “ In the Jewish World Review in February 2000, in a piece titled “NOW: Pro-Fatherhood Funding Is Unconstitutional,” Sheila Cronin was quoted: “Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women’s movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage.” Now, most American women do not harbor so bitter and hostile a view of marriage and family. If they did, there would be even fewer children and the Death of the West would be imminent. But millions are influenced by feminist ideology and its equation of marriage with prostitution and slavery, and that ideology has persuaded many to put off marriage and not to have children….(thought to be continued)Gen. 3:16 To the woman He said:\t“I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;\tIn pain you shall bring forth children;\tYour desire shall be for your husband,\tAnd he shall rule over you.” 1Tim. 5:9 Do not let a widow under sixty years old be taken into the number, and not unless she has been the wife of one man, 10 well reported for good works: if she has brought up children, if she has lodged strangers, if she has washed the saints’ feet, if she has relieved the afflicted, if she has diligently followed every good work. How does the philosophy of Feminism stand with these Sciptures? How is the word of God sharper than a two edged sword?In ChristJeff
I keep hearing the word "FREEDOM." Why is this word so appealing to the masses of men? Without accountability to anyone ... ever.
Just another point, based on Paris Reidhead's definition of Humanism. Where does population control finds it's power? Is is not centered in the pursuit for the happiness of man? In ChristJeff
This is a timely illustration of what the world seeks in "freedom."NEW YORK (AP) -- Howard Stern began his new satellite radio show on Monday by putting to rest rumors that he got married to his longtime girlfriend, model Beth Ostrosky -- in a comment complete with a federally banned expletive."I am not married. It's a nice feeling that we get along great. We're very happy and I don't want to (blank) it up," said Stern, who is finally free of government decency laws on Sirius Satellite Radio.Stern has promised everything from stripper poles to live sex on his new show. His deal could be worth up to $500 million over five years to headline two Sirius channels...Stern also introduced George Takei as his new on-air personality. Takei, who played Sulu on "Star Trek" and who last year publicly said he is gay, will serve as announcer..."The revolution has begun" in new radio, Takei said Monday.Even before his first day on the job, the shock jock recruited listeners for the $13-per-month service: Its audience expanded from 600,000 to 2.2 million subscribers after Stern announced his switch last year.That's hardly a surprise. Stern's wildly popular syndicated show proved a cash cow for Infinity Broadcasting, raking in about $100 million in annual advertising revenues and capturing 12 million listeners with raunchy, boundary-pushing programming...."I thought Clear Channel and companies like that were going to fight the FCC," Stern, 51, told the Associated Press last month. "I kept hanging around. And they never fought back. ... They are cowards. They bow, and they deserve to be destroyed."..."I've been doing years and years of shows but I get irritated when people wish me luck," he said. "You should have wished me luck 25 years ago."...(end of article)This article talks about freedom. It talks about money. And this particular man has been in the fight for 25 years.In ChristJeff
page 42, continued thought on Feminism...Ideas Have Consequences is the title of the late conservative Richard Weaver's famous little book, and the success of feminist ideas has had consequences for our country. They may be seen in the 1,000 percent increase in the number of unmarried couples living together in the United States, from 523,000 in 1970 to 5.5 million today. The 2000 census also reports that, for the first time in our history, nuclear families account for fewer than one in four households, while single Americans who live alone are now 26 percent of all households. Marriage is out of fashion. Back in 1990, Katarine Runske, an author far less famous than the American feminist, published in Britain a book called Empty Hearts and Empty Homes, in which she addressed the inevitable result of all this antimale, antimarriage rhetoric. Feminism, she said, is"a Darwinian blind alley. In biological terms, there is nothing that identifies a maladaptive pattern so quickly as a below replacement level of reproduction; an immediate consequence of feminism is what appears to be an irreversible decline in the birth rate. Nations pursue feminist policies at their peril."In short, the rise of feminism spells the death of the nation and the end of the West. Oddly, that most politically incorrect of poets, Rudyard Kipling, saw it all coming back in 1919:"On the Feminian Sandstones, we were promised the Fuller Life (Which started by loving our neighbor, and ended by loving his wife) Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faithAnd the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH."(end of thought on Feminism)Do you see the statistics on the nuclear family? Less than 100 years ago we saw the demise of the extended family, now we are witnessing the demise of the nuclear family.The next post will be about The Popular Culture.In ChristJeff
Page 43, (E) The Popular Culture, in its hierarchy of values, puts the joys of sex far above the happiness of motherhood. The women's magazines, the soaps, romance novels, and prime-time TV all celebrate career, sex, and the single woman. "Taking care of baby" is for Grandma. Marriage and monogamy are about as exciting as a mashed-potato sandwich. That old triumvirate "the world, the flesh, and the devil," not only has all the best tunes, but all the best ad agencies. How many TV shows today tout motherhood? How long ago did The Brady Bunch go off the air? Paul Anka's signature song, "You're Having My Baby," is now "We're Having Our Baby," but "I Am Woman" is still around. It is a sign of the times that Ozzie and Harriet is not just behind the times. Like Amos 'n' Andy, it has become a metaphor for what was wrong with the times. "Any human society," wrote anthropogist J.D. Unwin, "is free to choose either to display great energy or to enjoy sexual freedom. The evidence is that it cannot do both for more than one generation." What is now called the Greatest Generation came of age in the Depression and World War II. It displayed great energy and gave America a position of unrivaled preeminence. The baby boomers and Gen-Xers, by and large, opted for "sexual freedom." Soon we shall see if Unwin was right. The early returns suggest that he was, that the West will not survive its experiment in sexual liberation in recognizable form. As the conservative columnist Jenkin Lloyd Jones observed, "Great civilizations and animal standards of behavior coexit only for short periods." (end of thought)Just this morning I was talking to a brother about how things seem to be headed toward what the above thought portrays. I spoke of the reasons for sex education and the indoctrination of the next generation in population control. He mentioned having a conversation with a young man of 14 or 15 years old. The young man said that it is hip to declare that you are gay in school whether you are or not. That this manifestation is actually becoming a fad in middle schools and high schools here in Los Angeles. This young man stated that this fad finds its roots in the popular TV shows of today. As we were talking about this issue, I brought up a thought. The acceptance of homosexuality as normal in a society is the ultimate end of the population control movement. Without procreation according to God's design, this society is doomed. It reminds me of the time when Satan lied to Eve, "Surely you will not die,"In ChristJeff
Hi Jeff,I think you can see a pattern in the scripture regarding homosexuality. It's a form of judgment for the entire culture.In Sodom we see the story laid out in Genesis 19. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them." The first judgment that fell was blindness and that's where the modern world is at right now. First blindness and then destruction.There's a similar story in Judges 19.And then there is Romans 1. We need tears because surely judgment is coming.
Evil has struck a new cord! I thought how much worse could America get, but until I found out something that blew me away: There are companys on the internet that help spouses commit adultrey. Pay a fee and they will do all the lies, phone calls to your spouse so that nobody will know. This seems to be a big business now.I'm with Ravenhill who said "how do we sleep so easily at night with a nation gone to hell?"
Brother Brent wrote:I'm with Ravenhill who said "how do we sleep so easily at night with a nation gone to hell?"Ezek. 9:3 Now the glory of the God of Israel had gone up from the cherub, where it had been, to the threshold of the temple. And He called to the man clothed with linen, who had the writer’s inkhorn at his side; 4 and the LORD said to him, “Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and cry over all the abominations that are done within it.” Continue to cry and sigh over all the abominations, wake up the sleeping Christians.In ChristJeff
(page 43)(F) The Collapse of the Moral Order. What people truly believe about right and wrong can better be determined by how they live their lives than by what they tell the pollsters. If so, the old moral order is dying. As late as the 1950s, divorce was a scandal, "shacking up" was how "white trash" lived, abortion was an abomination, and homosexuality the "love that dare not speak its name."Today, half of all marriages end in divorce, "relationships" are what life is about, and "the love that dare not speak its name" will not shut up. The collapse of marriage and marital fertility, says Belgian demographer Ron Lesthaeghe, is due to a long-term "shift in the Western ideational system" away from values affirmed by Christianity--sacrifice, altruism, the sanctity of commitment--and toward a militant "secular individualism" focused on the self."...With rampant promiscuity and wholesale divorce, the explosion of pornography and the mainstreaming of the Playboy philosophy, taxpayer funding of abortion, and a day in America when we can read about teenage girls throwing newborn infants into dumpsters and leaving them out in the snow, the world Paul VI predicted is upon us. Indeed, the new world takes on the aspect of the old world of pagan Rome, where unwanted babies were left on hillsides to die of exposure. Life is no longer respected as it was by the Greatest Generation, which came home after seeing how life had been so disrespected in a world at war....Nowhere is the overthrow of the old moral order more evident than in how homosexuality is seen today, and yesterday. In World War II, Undersecretary of State Sumner Welles, who wore the "old school tie" of FDR, was forced out of office for propositioning a sleeping car porter. LBJ feared that the arrest of aide Walter Jenkins, caught in a police sting in a men's room at the YMCA, might cost him millions of votes. Rising GOP star Bob Bauman lost his House seat when caught soliciting teenagers in the tenderloin district of D.C. That was then; now is now.The turning point came when Gerry Studds, who seduced a sixteen-year-old male page, defied House sanctions and was reelected in Massachusetts, a Catholic state. Barney Frank easily, survived House chastisement for fixing parking tickets for a live-in male lover who was running a full-service whorehouse out of Barney's basement, and, in the Clinton era, John Ashcroft was lacerated during his confirmation hearings by former Senate colleagues for having opposed the nomination of homosexual James Hormel as ambassador to Luxembourg. Hormel, broadcasting the San Francisco gay pride parade, had laughingly welcomed the transvestite "Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence," who mock the pope and Catholic nuns. Truly, the world is turned upside down.(thought to be continued)In some highschools here in Los Angeles, it is fashionalbe for the young men to act femine and the young women to take on male traits. Most of these children have not yet declared that the will follow the ways of homosexuality yet what does Scripture say?James 1:14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. In ChristJeff
"Are there any examples in the Scriptures where a saint is depicted as studying other religions?"Have you considered Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, Azariah?
Brother YIsrael wrote:Have you considered Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, Azariah?I will have to "consider" more closely the examples that you have brought. Thankyou for your query.In ChristJeff
(page 45, thought continued on the collapse of moral order)"When America's most public lesbian couple, actresses Anne Heche and Ellen DeGeneres, broke up, the president of the United States called to offer his sympathy. Hillary Clinton became the first First Lady to march in the New York City gay pride parade. Did the New York Times, the good Gray Lady of Forty-third Street, editorially question the wisdom of America's First Lady parading with drag queens and men in thongs? Not at all. As Times national political correspondent Richard Berke told colleagues at the tenth-anniversary reception of the National Lesbian and Gay Journalists Association, " Three quarters of the people who decide what goes on the front page [of the Times] are 'not-so-closeted' homosexuals."Nine months after marching for gay pride, Mrs Clinton refused to march in the 240th St. Patrick's Day parade, once a must for all New York City politicians. The Ancient Order of Hibernians, the fraternal Roman Catholic group that runs the parade, does not permit the Irish Lesbian and Gay Organization to march as a unit; and Mrs. Clinton had been chastised by gay rights groups for marching on St. Patrick's Day in 2000. That Senator Clinton would appease the homosexuals, even if it meant affronting Irish Catholics, testifies to the new balance of power in the Democratic party and the new correlation of forces in the culture war."(thought to be continued)I myself have been guilty of using the New York Times as a source of tearing down other world systems. Do you see how Satan's lies permeate the fabric of our communities and our nation as a people? Many of the thoughts that I am currently posting, I myself have just discovered how I have been led to believe in the empty philosophies of men. I myself have witnessed how these wind of doctrines sway my thoughts and have caused me to struggle agaisnt other men. And for what? Do you see the nature of the fruit that Satan produces? "Surely you won't die."In Christ Jeff
There are interesting lessons to be learned from these men and by the way, I am not a man. :-) Y'Israel
Sister YIsrael wrote:by the way, I am not a man.Sorry, I assumed your name to be a reference to Jacob and your OT examples.I promise I will search the Scriptures to find "interesting lessons" that I have not seen yet. Part of this thread, which I have not developed yet, pretains to searching out the examples given to us in the OT of how evil and rebellion are manifested in much of the OT Scriptures. If you feel led please tell of the "interesting lessons."In ChristJeff
I myself have been guilty of using the New York Times as a source of tearing down other world systems. Do you see how Satan's lies permeate the fabric of our communities and our nation as a people? Many of the thoughts that I am currently posting, I myself have just discovered how I have been led to believe in the empty philosophies of men. I myself have witnessed how these wind of doctrines sway my thoughts and have caused me to struggle agaisnt other men. And for what? Do you see the nature of the fruit that Satan produces? Jeff, appreciate your own appraisal here. Likewise find much of my own postulating lacking and the finger pointed at myself as if to be exposed while exposing. Have largely begged off much of the news in that same sense, canceled the newspaper awhile back for just lack of energy towards this, knowing it's particular slant and even the opposite slant has all it's own inherent problems, summed up in your statement; empty philosophies of men. It is not to stick ones head in the sand at all, guess it is so much reading between the lines. The problem is, men we still are, even though adopted and having our very disposition greatly altered, praise God for that. But men nonetheless. May the Lord continue to shatter our illusions and humble us to the fact that we can still yet be decieved, all on our own."Casting down evil imaginations"
(page 46, The Collapse of Moral Order is continued)Even the children of Middle America now do tours of duty in the sexual revolution. "Do your own thing! is now a moral norm. Every American woman of childbearing age has had abortion as a fallback, and millions will not give it up. They want it there for themselves and their daughters and will vote against any politician or party that threatens to take it away. Euthanasia has come to Europe and is coming to America. Upon what moral ground do we any longer stand to stop it? Dr. Kevorkian, a ghoul in an earlier age, some of whose victims were just depressed, not dying, gets a sympathetic profile on Sixty Minutes. In the Age of the Individual, people believe in this life, not the next; in the quality of life, not the sanctity of life; and no one wants to be told how he should live his life. " Americans are not going to lead 21st-century lives based on 18th and 19th-century moral ideas," writes sociologists and public intellectual Alan Wolfe: "Any form of higher authority has to tailor its demands to the needs of real people." After a millennium and a half, paganism is the "comeback kid."(thought to be continued)The right of the individual, the freedom of the individual, what do the substance of these hope bring? Pro-Choice speaks of freedom. Yet, for the most part, those who seek abortion have already exercised their freedom when they engaged in the activities which lead to pregnancy. Freedom is a powerful precept, yet very few know of the perfect law of liberty. In ChristJeff
Brother Mike wrote:The problem is, men we still are, even though adopted and having our very disposition greatly altered, praise God for that. But men nonetheless. May the Lord continue to shatter our illusions and humble us to the fact that we can still yet be decieved, all on our own.The work of God destroys the work of Satan. John writes:1 John 2:14...I have written to you, young men,\t\tBecause you are strong, and the word of God abides in you,\t\tAnd you have overcome the wicked one. In Hebrews, the writer exhorts the believers to grow into the maturity. For what purpose? Heb. 5:12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. Some are called to be the watchmen over His flocks. To protect the sheep one must be able to see the wolf.Due not grow weary brother, Brother Rahman exhorted me some time ago in like manner. God BlessIn ChristJeff
(continued from page 46)The America many of us grew up in is gone. The cultural revolution has triumphed in the minds of millions and is beyond the power of politicians to overturn, even had they the courage to try. Half a nation has converted. The party of working-class Catholics is almost 100 percent "pro-choice" and pro-gay rights. The party of the Moral Majority and Christian Coalition has thrown in the towel on the social issues--to go out and do the Lord's work growing the Department of Education. Young people are not concerned about their souls; they are worried about the Nasdaq. Most of the intellectual and media elite are fighting allies of the revolution of fellow travelers, and many conservatives are trolling for the terms of armistice.What a tiny band of secular humanists declared in a manifesto in 1973 had become the moral compass of America and is becoming the law of the land. Americans have listened, absorbed, and embraced the values of a revolution that scandalized their parents and grandparents, calling to mind the insight of Alexander Pope:"Vice is a monster of so frightful mien,As to be hated needs but to be seen;Yet seen too oft, familiar with her face,We first endure, then pity, then embrace."(thought to be continued) Do you hear what this little poem brings to light? Do you see how the lie grows? In ChristJeff
(continued thought on page 47)"Only a social counterrevolution or a religious awakening can turn the West around before a falling birthrate closes off the last exit ramp and rings down the curtain on Western Man's long-running play. But not a sign of either can be seen on the horizon.What force can resist the siren's song of a hedonistic culture that is so alluring and appealing and is promoted by almost all who speak to the young--Hollywood, MTV, the soaps, prime-time TV, the hot mags and the hot music, romance novels and bestsellers? How do parents compete when even teachers and preachers are handing our condoms? What is going to convert American women to wanting what their mothers wanted and grandmothers prayed for: a good man, a home in the suburbs, and a passel of kids? Sounds almost quaint.In Caesar and Christ, Book III of his Story of Civilization, historian Will Durant argues that "biological factor" were "fundamental" to the fall of the Roman Empire:"A serious decline of population appears in the West after Hadrian...A law of Septimus Severus speaks of a penuria hominum--a shortage of men. In Greece the depopulation had been going on for centuries. In Alexandria, which had boasted of its numbers, Bishop Dionysius calculated that the population had in his time [250 AD] been halved. He mourned to see "the human race diminishing and constantly wasting away." Only the barbarians and Orientals were increasing, outside the Empire and within."How did Rome reduce its population? "Though branded as a crime, infanticide flourished...Sexual excesses may have reduced human fertility; the avoidance or deferment of marriage had a like effect. Adds Durant; "Perhaps the operation of contraception, abortion and infanticide... had a dysgenic as well as a numerical effect. The ablest men married latest, bred least and died soonest. Christians were having children, the pagans were not; "Abortion and infanticide, which were decimating pagan society, were forbidden to Christians as the equivalents to murder; in many instances Christains rescued exposed infants, baptized them, and brought them up with the aid of the community fund."Irony of ironies, Today, an aging, dying Christian West is pressing the Third World and the Islamic world to accept contraception, abortion, and sterilization as the West has done. But why should they enter a suicide pact with us when they stand to inherit the earth when we are gone?"(end of thought and book)I hear many fear Islam. I hear many say it is good to fight. Yet we have already lost. I myself, have seen how I have been deceived by the lies of Satan. This is just one of many manifestations in his arsenal that he uses to destroy. How easily he deceives those who are not grounded in the Word of God.In ChristJeff
As I labored in another thread, I came to this understanding today about what this thread has been to some degree. What is it really about, in terms, of the work that God does to equip one for the spiritual battles ahead.This is a copy from the Authentic Fellowship thread.Another Brother came up to me on Tuesday and told me that he attended the Calvary Chapel Missions Conference two weeks ago. He told me of a movie that starts this Friday in theathers, "End of the Spear." He also shared with me his conversations that he had with various missionaries.He spoke of a number of times where the missionaries pointed him to the book of Jeremiah 1:Jer. 1:7 But the LORD said to me: “Do not say, ‘I am a youth,’ For you shall go to all to whom I send you, And whatever I command you, you shall speak. 8 Do not be afraid of their faces, For I am with you to deliver you,” says the LORD. For him this was the Lord speaking to him about his fear of the people he might someday be called to minister to in Southeast Asia.I say all of this to share this next verse. When Brother Hua pointed to the above verse, my eyes settled on a verse just after this. Jer. 1:9 Then the LORD put forth His hand and touched my mouth, and the LORD said to me: “Behold, I have put My words in your mouth. 10 See, I have this day set you over the nations and over the kingdoms, To root out and to pull down, To destroy and to throw down, To build and to plant.” What became significant to me was this notion. God defined Jeremiah's calling in these words. "To root out and to pull down, To build and to plant."I had never thought about this Scripture until now. Now I see based on many of the thoughts that I share here at SI, that most of my time is spent rooting out and pulling down. The thread, "these days are evil" is all about rooting out and pulling down. I also must with all sincerity say, that there is alot of human trash in the thread. Yet, I as a rookie am learning. Something is being birthed in me by God according to the work that He has prepared. But how does this thought coincide with Authentic Fellowship? Again, I do not see very far ahead, but this I know. That much of what causes false fellowship is a result of not understanding how Satan's work permeates the lives of many believers in the church. The first work of God is to root out and pull down, then it will be time "To build and to plant."In ChristJeff
I found this article in my future home town newspaper. For the last month or so I have posted thoughts that have led to the decline of western civilization both in population and and truth. This article wonderfully summarizes what has happened in the past 50 years. "LOST IN A POSTMODERN WORLD"We live in what many describe as a post-modern world. Although there is debate about the precise meaning of postmodernity, many sociologists agree that Western culture has recently experienced major changes in the underlying ways people thing--expecially the way people view truth and reality. On a popular level, much of what is offered as politically correct is simply the product of this cultural shift. And, many who parrot the agenda of political correctness, although they consider themselves above cultural conformity, are simply blind products of the cultural shift.The pre-modern era was one in which religion was the source of truth and reality. God's existence and revelation were givens in the culture. In the modern era, science became the source for truth and reality. During this period, religion and morality were arbitrarily demoted to the subjective realm. In the present, postmodern era, there is no single defining source for truth and reality beyond the individual. Postmodernism radicalized relativism and individualism and applied them to all spheres of knowledge--even science. Truth (under posmodernity) is individually shaped by personal history, social class, gender, culture and religion. These factors, according to postmodern thinking, combine to shape the narratives and meanings of our lives as culturally embedded, localized social constructions without any univeral application. Postmoderns are suspicious of thos who make universal truth claims. All claims of universal meaning are viewed as imperialistic efforts to marginalize and oppress the rights of others. The most important value of postmodernity is the inadmissibility of all totalizing ways of viewing any dimension of life. Postmodernity, as a worldview, refuses to allow any single defining source for truth and reality. The new emphasis is on difference, plurality and selective forms of tolerance. Postmodern thinking is full of absurdities and inconsistencies. It is, for example, the worldview that says no worldview exists. It is an anti-theory that uses theoretical tools to neutralize all theories. It demands an imposed uniformity in an effort to resist uniformity. It employs propositional statements to negate truth based on propositional statements.Dominate postmodern concerns for plurality, diversity and tolerance have not led to a more stable and secure society. Instead, the postmodern era exchanged one misguided mood for another. Postmodernity was fueled by a shift from the human optimism of modernity (based on scientific certainty and technological progress), to a pessimistic mood of skepticism and uncertainty. One observer noted that, "Modernity was confident; postmodernity is anxious. Modernity had all the answers; postmodernity is full of questions. Modernity reveled in reason, science and human ability; postmodernity wallows (with apparent contentment or nihilistic angst) in mysticism, relativism, and the incapacity to know anything with certainty."This mood change was fueled by the devastation and disappointments of two world wars. Philosophies of despare and nihilistic existentialism became popular fare throughout Europe. These philosophies would later provide the ideological framework for the rejection of authourity and institutionalism in America.During the 1960s and '70s, the prevailing attitudes against authority, institution and establishment produced overwhelmingly negative effects on our nation. We experienced a massive societal shift away from the institution of marriage and family. This involved alarming increases in divorce rates and the widespread acceptance of co-habitation. Anyone who denies the devastating consequences of these changes should be encouraged to lift his head out of the sand.As a result of these changes, pastors, counselors, psychologists, psychiatrists and therapists are stretched to the limit as they try to help overwhelming numbers of people pick up the broken pieces of their lives and become whole again. Yet many of these helpers are equally lost because they accept the postmodern lie. What is the lie? It is the wholesale rejection of univeral reason and absolute truth. It is the delusional mindset that there is no objective goodness and rightness. These prevailing opinions have led to the dismissal of an absolute deity. Don't misunderstand; God is warmly welcomed in the postmodern world as long as he doesn't try to play God. As one has written, "Postmodernity returns value to faith and affirms the nurturing of our spiritual being as vital to humankind. Unfortunately, with the loss of truth, people will now seek faith without boundaries, categories, or definition. The old parameters of belief do not exist. As a result, people will be increasingly open to knowing God, but on their own terms" (Graham Johnston). Yet the true and living God will not be defined by finite creatures. While postmodern guru-philosophers like Richard Rorty have tried to write the obituary of the "God's-eye view of the world, " the Creator of the universe still determines the standard of truth, goodness and beauty. "Don't be misled." scripture warns, "Remember that you can't ignore God and get away with it. You will always reap what you sow!" (Galatians 6:7). If you are lost in the postmodern world; the God who revealed himself through Jesus Christ is your only way out (see John 14:6). He is the savior who can forgive your sins and the shepherd who can lead you out of the confusion and despair of postmodenity.Steven W. Cornell is the senior pastor of Millersville Bible Church.end of articleIn ChristJeff
Lancaster paper, Sunday December 18Political decisions are driven by America's culture.By Bill WichtermanA substantial part of the controversy which brought down Harriet Miers nominations to the Supreme Court centered on whether she would vote to overturn Roe Vs Wade. Although neither she nor the president's replacement nominee, Samuel Alito, would provide the crucial fifth vote to undo this 32-year old decision, the question was whether her confirmation migh open the way for the court to become anti-Roe with the next vacancy.Many Americans believe that if Roe were overturned, abortion would become illegal nationwide. Not so. Meaningfully reducing the abortion rate requires a prior cultural reformation before politicians can act. Culture is "upstream" from politics. Government is like a giant mirror reflecting the soul of the nation. While the clarity of that reflection will shift from administration to administration, we generally get the government we deserve. Or, as Plato wrote, "The state is the sould writ large."In the case of abortion, the Supreme Court simply ratified the sexual revolution begun in the 1960s. The sexual revolution said that sex without consequences was possible. The unintended baby put the lie to that notion. Abortion stepped in to take care of the inconvenient and unintended child.It's widely forgotten that 18 states had legalized abortion before Roe. There were 600,000 legal abortions in 1972. Roe didn't even accelerate the steady rate of increase that began in 1968, and continued for 25 years, before leveling off and even dropping in the 1990s. The states were ratifying the sexual revolution one by one, and the court short-circuited that ratification by making it the law of the land. Overturning Roe would begin a serious state-by-state debate about whether and when abortion should be legal from coneption to birth. But in many states, and for much of the population, first trimester abortions would continue. And it may be generations before California, New York, and other populous "blue states" significantly roll back abortion rights. The abortion rate would certainly drop, but, initially, only marginally, from the current 1.2 million annual abortions to prehaps 1 million. (article to be continued)As we see sin, the manifestation or the result of sin, we begin to see deeper into the underlying precepts which God has established and man rejects. How foolish are we when we try to whitewash the outside, in this case, overturn Roe Vs Wade. and are unwilling to address the depravity that preceded and continues to grow in western culture. Can any government of this world free us and give us what is best of us? Unless we grow in the likeness of Christ, all other efforts outside of Christ is vanity. Our govenment reflects the peoples of this nation. What is the nature of the substance that most hope for?In ChristJeff
(article continued)"Overturning abortion-rights statutes would first require a change of heart about the sexual revolution, and politics is ill-equipped for the task. Sexual mores are not set by politicians, and politicians challenge those mores at their peril.What we love, and what we hate are shaped less by laws than by our habits of the heart. And those habits are shaped more powerfully by the songs we sing, the movies we thrill to, and the books we read. Damon of Athens said, "Give me the songs of a nation, and it matters not who writes its laws."In his farewell address of 1796, George Washington said, "Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensible supports." James Madison said, "Corruption of [morals] make a people ripe for destruction. A good form of government may hold rotten materials together for some time, but beyond a certain pitch, even the best constitution will be ineffectual." The framers of the U.S. Constitution understood that the genius of the American Experiment lay not in the parchment, but in the unwritten constitution of the American people. Without virtue, they knew we would be unable to sustain this form of government. Politics is important--very important. I have no doubt that law is a teacher. That's one reason I have spent almost two decades working as a congressional staff member on Capitol Hill. But politics is not up to the task of single-handedly renewing our culture. For that, we need writers, musicians, producers, and playwrites, who will tell stories that lift up the good, the true, and the beautiful. They, more so than politicians, can help us shape what we love, and what we hate.Whether the challenge is building a culture of life, boistering individual responsibility, or restoring sound business ethics, politics plays a limited role. Robert Bork wrote that, " Conservative political victories will always be tenuous and fragile, unless conservatives recapture the culture."The battles over who sits on the Supreme Court are important. But, we will be sadly disappointed if we focus all of our efforts on the political realm, and neglect the more powerful culture-shaping institutions which drive the law. The sooner conservatives send workers into the cultural vineyards of Hollywood, publishing, and academia, the sooner we'll begin to make sustainable long-term gains in building a healthy culture."(end of article)Before we can change the content of the media empire, we must first seek the kingdom of God. Only by the power of His Holy Spirit will the works of Satan be rooted out, pulled down, and destroyed. In ChristJeff
Good article Jeff,Small side note here in this paragraph,But politics is not up to the task of single-handedly renewing our culture. For that, we need writers, musicians, producers, and playwrites, who will tell stories that lift up the good, the true, and the beautiful. They, more so than politicians, can help us shape what we love, and what we hate.We Christians must resist the urge to respond to the darkness in the news with only more dispair. It's not like the world doesn't have enough doomsday prophets...they are a dime a dozen these days. Perhaps hope is a distinguishing mark of the spirit filled saint. I'm not talking about being oblivious to the things that are plainly seen by everyone else...I'm talking about holding onto the substance of better things hoped for, and the evidence of better things not yet seen. Just a few general thoughts about these troubling times...MC
By Jeff: "I keep hearing the word "FREEDOM." Why is this word so appealing to the masses of men?"The great statesman Edmond Burke once wrote this warning: "Men qualify for freedom in exact proportion to their disposition to put moral chains on their own appetites. Society cannot exist unless a controlling power is put somewhere on will and appetite, and the less of it there is within, the more their must be without. It is ordained in the eternal constitution of things that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters."In light of this quote, I think that we can realistically assume that the days of "the home of the brave and the land of the free" are truly numbered--unless we experience a true God-ordained awakening!I fear that we are very close to the time when God's word to America is none other than, "MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN...MENE: God has numbered our nation, and finished it; TEKEL: We have been weighed in the balances and found wanting; PERES: Our nation is divided and given to the...??? (you can fill in the blank here, the chinese, the muslums, the nations of the world?!)"Pray for revival, saints!
Brother Mike wrote:Perhaps hope is a distinguishing mark of the spirit filled saint.This is the hope that will turn this world upside down. The joy of the Lord will fill those who search, and this hope will cause the enemy to hate more and more. The source of this hope will bring both manifestations, joy and hatred, into the life of those who walk with Jesus.In ChristJeff
Br Billy wrote:unless we experience a true God-ordained awakening!Yes, this truly is the point from which all things find restoration. Only by the power of His Holy Spirit. Amen God BlessJeff
This is the hope that will turn this world upside down. The joy of the Lord will fill those who search...Amen! MC
Pottstown Pa newspaper, The Mercury, Jan 25Post-abortion miseryby Kathryn LopezThe Beltway demagogues who sound alarms about abortion opponents seeking to ruin (and end!) women's lives, ought to stop and think about the women who've had and are currently suffering from abortions.The South Dakota recently did just that. The South Dakota Task Force to Study Abortion, created by thye state legislature to look at how best the state could "protect the rights, interests and health of pregnant mothers," just churned out a report. Besides "experts" and activists, just short of 2,000 women who have had abortions- perhaps the real experts - communicated with the committee. The report relays testimonies of "a pattern of shared experiences and trauma and a common sense of loss." As one woman told them of her abortion; "I carry the guilt and shame with me every day."On a topic usually drowning in euphemisms, where "choice" is used more often than "abortion," some women testified that for them, legal abortion gave them no precious "choice." To the contrary, the report says, "The overwhelming majority of women testified that they would never have considered an abortion if it were not legal. Many revealed that they feel that the legalization of abortion simply gave a license to others to pressure them into a decision they otherwise would not have made." Others "relate that they were coerced into having the abortion by the father of the child or a parent, and that the abortion clinics also apply pressure. They almost uniformly express anger toward the abortion providers, their baby's father or society in general, which promotes abortion as a great right - the exercise of which is good for women."Women told the task force that they believe they were lied to. "If I had known that there was an existing living human being whose life would be terminated, I would have factored that into my considerations, and I surely would not have submitted to the procedure, and I would not have consented to it." Just excuses for behavior regretted in hindsight? Maybe. But when you consider the heart-wrenching life-and-death finality of abortion, and the perversely unnatural mainstream acceptance (at least in our law) of mothers rejecting motherhood in the most final way...we ought to listen.As you can imagine, the report is not without its controversy. Abortion advocates have complained about an anti-abortion bias from the start and last-minute changes to the report - some members of the task force have issued a minority report of their own for some of these reasons. But even with flaws - reading the report reveals it is unnecessarily heavy-handed, for instance - there's something that resonates about the testimony it describes. It echoes the sentiments of many women who have had abortions. It's not an in-and-out-and -it's-over procedure. It is "life altering," as one woman told the task force. And the "choice" affects more than just the woman undergoing the abortion.To be honest, though, I might be heavy-handed too. Consider, for instance, the attitude emanating from a new year's Washington Post piece bemoaning how rare abortion has become in South Dakota - a state where abortionists are imported from other states because South Dakota doctors have determined that "offering the procedure is not worth the stigma of being branded a baby killer." Perhaps pangs of conscience, as they remember the doctor's do-no-harm oath of Hippocrates? And not just the sentiments of pro-lifers. In a January interview with "Nightline," an Arkansas abortionist admits he kills life when he proudly performs and abortion. "I consider the mother's life to be much more important than the little blob of tissue, and that's all it is at that time," he said. One otherwise thoughtful abortion advocate told the South Dakota task force, "The decision to have an abortion is still voluntary, even if some women experience sadness or other feelings at some point after the procedure," dismissing "assertions" that there are unique and significant psychological harms as a result of abortion. In a prebuttal to the report, Planned Parenthood of the Southern Finger Lakes used a regulation to explain why the state of "accessing abortion" in South Dakota is "pretty dire," South Dakota "has a mandatory delay law requiring a woman to wait 24 hours before she can get an abortion."In a country that feels the need to take what should just be common sense - parental-notification laws and partial-birth abortion bans - to the Supreme Court for resolution and has influential folks who think a 24-hour delay is a heavy impediment to a life altering (and ending) decision, we could use a few more task forces on abortion, examining what 33 years of Roe vs Wade has wrought.The South Dakota report isn't perfect, but the instinct to be listening to the victims of abortions who are still around (more than half, obviously, never able to speak for themselves) is not a bad one. (end of article)The word "choice" like "freedom" is a powerful thought. How many times is it not what is seems? Satan's lie how powerful, delusional, and intoxicating it can be. In ChristJeff
bro Jeffindeed the idea of freedom has been perverted by our culture to be be able to do whatever we like or think is right. like the proverb says though,there is a way which seems right unto man but the end reulst is destruction.we have silenced the Lord's apostles, prophets, teachers, preachers and evangelists and kindled His wrath in the name of freedom. The Lord's hand is raised against us and noone can wrestle it down. woe, woe woe unto us!for those that would, i pray we all REPENT, REPENT, REPENT, OR DIE!!!
Muslim anger on cartoons spreadsNo apology over Mohammad images, says DenmarkPARIS, France (Reuters) -- Denmark said on Friday it could not apologize for cartoons in a Danish newspaper depicting the Prophet Mohammad as outrage spread across the Muslim world from the Middle East to countries in Asia.More European newspapers published the cartoons on Friday, arguing freedom of speech was sacred, but angry Muslims staged violent protests against jokes they consider blasphemous...(end of part of article)I post this not to support Islam but to point out one thought. Again we hear this word "freedom.""More European newspapers published the cartoons on Friday, arguing freedom of speech was sacred,"Why are the European nations publishing cartoons of Mohammed in unison? What is the purpose behind this concerted effort? How have our own media attempted to dimminish the glory of God in our own country? Why do they do this? They say they have a "sacred right of FREE speach."Doesn't this represent the sacred rights of the religion of Humanism?In ChristJeff
Christian group angry over Britney 'Will'LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) -- A conservative advocacy group that urged a boycott of NBC's recently canceled drama about a pill-popping priest turned its wrath Thursday to an upcoming "Will & Grace" episode that it says will mock Christ's crucifixion.But NBC executives insist the group's objections stem from faulty details in a press release mistakenly issued by the network earlier this week, and that neither a script nor story line for the episode in question has been written.The latest religious flap at NBC flared after the network announced Tuesday that pop star Britney Spears will make an April 13 guest appearance on "Will & Grace," playing a Christian conservative talk-show sidekick to Jack, the gay character portrayed by series regular Sean Hayes....(end of thought for article)What a coincedence! Here is another article published on the same day as the previous post. Do you see?In Christ Jeff
Another thought....The comming one-world religion will not be watered down Catholisim (SP)?, Protestanism, or Islam. The one world religion will be Humanism.In ChristJeff
This is something that I have observed strongly in the past two weeks. My father fell down a flight of stairs two weeks ago. So my wife and I flew back to Pennsylvania to be at his side. While we were there we had an opportunity to go to the school where our children will be this coming year. This is what I came away with from our observations.There was a mix of children, meaning there were those who imitate the various groups that are influenced by the entertainment and media industry. I saw the influence of the heavy metal in some of the children. I saw the influence of the OC in another group. I saw the influence of the sports industry. What I saw in this small school I see out here in California. Last night I saw a 20 20 program discussing rudeness that is permeating our communities. One part of this program displayed the changing youth in Japan. The youth of Japan look just like those here in California and Pennsylvania. Many of the attitudes that these Japanese youth imitate are the fruit of the media and entertainment that flows from the U.S. Everywhere I go I see a indoctrination that has been enabled by mass communitcations technology. I have often heard Christians say that this technology is wonderful because it enable us to proclaim the Gospel through out the world. Yet I see the works of Satan overwhelming our youth through the disemination of the lie. This is also a freedom of speech that the world seeks.In ChristJeff
BBC NewsMass anti-cartoon rally in Beirut Tens of thousands of Shia Muslims held a peaceful protest in Beirut Hundreds of thousands of Shia Muslims in Lebanon have turned a religious ceremony into a protest over cartoons satirising the Prophet Muhammad. The leader of the Hezbollah militant group told the crowd demonstrations must continue until Europe passed laws banning insults to Muhammad. Protests continued around the world, with thousands marching in Bangladesh's capital and in Cape Town, South Africa. The Malaysian government has shut down a newspaper which printed the cartoons. Papers in several European nations have reprinted the cartoons, first published in a Danish newspaper last September and most recently carried in French magazine Charlie Hebdo. NATO defence ministers are meeting in Brussels to consider the security implications of the controversy. It follows attacks on NATO troops in Afghanistan and on Danish embassies in Beirut and Damascus. A dozen people have died in violent protests in Afghanistan over recent days, some as they tried to march on a US military base. Hezbollah leader Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah told Shia Muslims gathered in Beirut to mark the annual Ashura mourning ceremony that there could be "no compromise before we get an apology". "We want European parliament to draft laws that ban newspapers from insulting the Prophet," he said. He criticised US President George Bush and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice over their claim that Iran and Syria had exploited the row over the cartoons to fuel anti-Western feeling. "The protests must be pursued everywhere. Bush and Rice must shut up and we tell them that we will not forgive those who offend our Prophet," he said. The satirical cartoons - which have been denounced throughout the Islamic world - include an image portraying Muhammad with a bomb in his turban. Islamic tradition explicitly prohibits any depiction of Allah and the Prophet. In other developments: Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen tells an English-language Arab newspaper that the caricatures were not intended as an attack on Muslims Iranian Vice-President Isfandiar Rahim Mashaee rejects Ms Rice's accusation his country was guilty of inflaming the furore as "100% a lie" South Africa's President Thabo Mbeki appeals for tolerance and mutual respect as thousands of Muslims rally in Cape Town.Code of conduct European papers have defended their decisions to publish on free speech grounds. Thousands of South African Muslims joined the worldwide protestsEU Justice and Security Commissioner Franco Frattini has called on the media across the European Union to adopt a voluntary code of conduct to prevent such rows in the future. By doing so, "the press will give the Muslim world the message: We are aware of the consequences of exercising the right of free expression", he told the UK's Daily Telegraph newspaper. "We can and we are ready to self-regulate that right," Mr Frattini added. Meanwhile the Malaysian government shut down indefinitely a Borneo-based paper, the Sarawak Tribune, after it reprinted the cartoons on Saturday. Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi described their publication as "insensitive and irresponsible". The paper had apologised for what it called an editorial oversight. (end of article)Isn't it amazing, the power of the principalities and powers that govern the earthly. We hear the politician speak of peace, peace, peace. For everytime that word is spoken, it seems that the seas of men are growing in the ways of Satan. Everyone is being stirred in this cauldron. Peace will not flow from the cauldron.Only the King of Peace, the King of Righteousness will overcome the works of Satan. He is the only source of Peace. In ChristJeff
Mass anti-cartoon rally in BeirutNo cartoons! Down with cartoons! :-x Sorry...couldn't resist. On the world stage, there is plently of tragedy...it helps me to see there is also opéra comique.MC
Ex-CIA official: Bush administration misused Iraq intelligence(CNN) -- The Bush administration disregarded the expertise of the intelligence community, politicized the intelligence process and used unrepresentative data in making the case for war, a former CIA senior analyst alleged.In an article published on Friday in the journal Foreign Affairs, Paul R. Pillar, the CIA's national intelligence officer for the Near East and South Asia from 2000 to 2005, called the relationship between U.S. intelligence and policymaking "broken.""In the wake of the Iraq war, it has become clear that official intelligence analysis was not relied on in making even the most significant national security decisions, that intelligence was misused publicly to justify decisions already made," Pillar wrote. Although the Clinton administration and other countries' governments also believed that Iraqi President Saddam Hussein was amassing weapons of mass destruction, they supported sanctions and weapons inspections as means to contain the threat, he said. The Bush administration's decision to go to war indicates other motivations, Pillar wrote, namely a power shake-up in the Middle East and a hastened "spread of more liberal politics and economics in the region."The Bush administration "used intelligence not to inform decision-making, but to justify a decision already made," Pillar wrote. "It went to war without requesting -- and evidently without being influenced by -- any strategic-level intelligence assessments on any aspect of Iraq." Though Pillar himself was responsible for coordinating intelligence assessments on Iraq, "the first request I received from any administration policymaker for any such assessment was not until a year into the war," he wrote.Pillar: Intelligence was rightPillar said much of the intelligence on Iraq proved to have been correct.Prior to the March 2003 invasion, the intelligence community concluded that the road to democracy in Iraq would be "long, difficult and turbulent" and forecast power struggles between Shiites and Sunnis, Pillar said.Intelligence experts also predicted that an occupying force would be attacked "unless it established security and put Iraq on the road to prosperity" immediately after the fall of Hussein, he wrote.As to whether Iraq pursued nuclear weapons, intelligence reports had concluded Iraq was years away from developing them and was unlikely to use such weapons against the United States unless cornered, Pillar said. The biggest discrepancy between public statements by the Bush administration and judgments by the intelligence community centered on the relationship between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda, he said."The enormous attention devoted to this subject did not reflect any judgment by intelligence officials that there was or was likely to be anything like the 'alliance' the administration said existed."Rather, "the administration wanted to hitch the Iraq expedition to the 'war on terror' and the threat the American public feared most, thereby capitalizing on the country's militant post-9/11 mood," Pillar wrote.White House at odds with intelligencePillar cited an August 2002 speech by Vice President Dick Cheney that said "intelligence is an uncertain business" and that intelligence analysts had underestimated how close Iraq was to developing a nuclear weapon before the 1991 Persian Gulf War. "His conclusion -- at odds with that of the intelligence community -- was that 'many of us are convinced that Saddam will acquire nuclear weapons fairly soon.'" After such remarks, the intelligence community was left "to register varying degrees of private protest," he said. Pillar also cited President Bush's claim, made in his 2003 State of the Union address, that Iraq was purchasing uranium ore from an African country."U.S. intelligence analysts had questioned the credibility of the report making this claim, had kept it out of their own unclassified products, and had advised the White House not to use it publicly," Pillar said."But the administration put the claim into the speech anyway, referring to it as information from British sources in order to make the point without explicitly vouching for the intelligence." Reorganization criticizedPillar described a "poisonous atmosphere" in which intelligence officers, including himself, were accused by administration officials of trying to sabotage the president's policies."This poisonous atmosphere reinforced the disinclination within the intelligence community to challenge the consensus view about Iraqi WMD programs; any such challenge would have served merely to reaffirm the presumptions of the accusers."Pillar also criticized the December 2004 reorganization of the intelligence community that made intelligence leaders serve at the pleasure of the president, saying they need more independence.Congress and the American people must get serious about "fixing intelligence," he said. "At stake are the soundness of U.S. foreign policymaking and the right of Americans to know the basis for decisions taken in the name of their security."Pillar, now on the faculty of Georgetown University's Security Studies Program, called for experienced intelligence officers to lead nonpartisan oversight of U.S. intelligence efforts as well as inquiries at the request of members of Congress. He also called for public discussion on how to improve the relationship between intelligence officials and policymakers, but said there is no clear fix."The current ill will may not be reparable, and the perception of the intelligence community on the part of some policymakers -- that Langley is enemy territory -- is unlikely to change," Pillar wrote, referring to CIA headquarters.(end of article)Brother Frank said something to this effect in another post. If we continue to witness things that are not of God, we have then a choice to remain or seperate ourselves from those things which do not have the testimony of Christ.It's not about who supports what, it's about how everyone is lying about each other. Satan is the father of lies.In ChristJeff
Here is another caldron that is boiling full of lies. What can we say about VP Cheney's witness? WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Vice President Cheney's former chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, told a grand jury he was "authorized by his superiors" to disclose classified information from an intelligence report to reporters, according to the special prosecutor in the CIA leak case.In a letter to Libby's lawyers, obtained by CNN, special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald said it is his understanding that Libby testified he was "authorized to disclose information about the National Intelligence Estimate to the press by his superiors."The letter does not name who the superiors are. But the National Journal, which first reported on the Fitzgerald letter, named Vice President Dick Cheney and other White House officials as authorizing Libby to disclose the classified material.A legal source involved in the case tells CNN that Libby did not testify to and has never suggested that anyone in the administration -- including Cheney -- authorized disclosing the name of CIA agent Valerie Plame.Libby was indicted in October on charges of perjury, obstruction of justice and making false statements to investigators looking into the July 2003 exposure of Plame, whose husband had emerged as a critic of the pre-war intelligence backing the invasion of Iraq. Libby has pleaded not guilty, and a judge has set a trial date for January 2007.His lawyer, William Jeffress, told The Associated Press, "There is no truth at all" to suggestions that Libby would try to shift blame to his superiors as a defense against the charges.According to Fitzgerald's letter, Libby met with Judith Miller, a reporter for The New York Times, on July 8, 2003, to "transmit information concerning the NIE."A former top U.S. intelligence official said it's unusual for National Intelligence Estimates to be declassified by the president or vice president without consulting the CIA director.The former official adds that some key judgments of that intelligence report were declassified on July 18, 2003 -- 10 days after Libby's meeting with Miller.Plame is the wife of Ambassador Joseph Wilson, who was sent by the CIA to the African nation of Niger to check out an intelligence report that nuclear material was being sold to Iraq. Plame's identity was disclosed shortly after her husband said he found no evidence to support the intelligence report and accused the Bush administration of skewing intelligence to exaggerate the Iraqi threat.When asked to comment at Thursday's White House briefing, Press Secretary Scott McClellan said, "Our policy is we're not going to discuss this while it's an ongoing legal proceeding, and that remains our policy."On September 30, 2003, President Bush said, "If there is a leak out of my administration, I want to know who it is, and if the person has violated the law, the person will be taken care of."Fitzgerald's investigation is ongoing.(end of article)Brother Frank said something to this effect in another post. If we continue to witness things that are not of God, we have then a choice to remain or seperate ourselves from those things which do not have the testimony of Christ.In ChristJeff
Here is a story that explains what is going on behind the scenes.Part oneWhite House critics forced out, while loyalists 'review' Bush wiretap program. George W. Bush has assured Americans that they can relax about his warrantless wiretapping because the program is reviewed by lots of lawyers and intelligence professionals. What he doesn’t say is that officials who object too much find themselves isolated, ridiculed and pushed out of their jobs. For instance, when Deputy Attorney General James Comey refused to recertify the spying program in March 2004 – while Attorney General John Ashcroft was in the hospital – Bush gave Comey a derisive nickname, as “Cuomey” or “Cuomo” after New York’s former liberal Democratic Gov. Mario Cuomo, Newsweek has reported. Similarly, a high-ranking intelligence official who questioned the wiretapping program told the Washington Post that his objections soon made him an unwanted outsider. He encountered awkward silences when he attended meetings where the eavesdropping rules were discussed. “I became aware at some point of things I was not being told about,” the intelligence official said. [Washington Post, Feb. 5, 2006] Another outcast from the Bush administration’s clique of insiders was Assistant Attorney General Jack Goldsmith, who reportedly led an internal rebellion of Justice Department lawyers who protested Bush’s assertion of nearly unlimited presidential powers for the duration of the War on Terror. “Demanding that the White House stop using what they saw as farfetched rationales for riding rough-shod over the law and the Constitution, Goldsmith and the others fought to bring government spying and interrogation methods within the law,” Newsweek wrote. “They did so at their peril; ostracized, some were denied promotions, while others left for more comfortable climes in private law firms and academia.” White House Nerves Goldsmith – a Republican conservative but not a believer in the absolutist Presidency – started getting on the White House’s nerves in fall 2003 after taking over the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel (OLC). First, Goldsmith argued that Iraqi prisoners were protected by the Geneva Conventions and couldn’t be subjected to coercion. Then, Goldsmith challenged a legal memo that had supported Bush’s right to authorize torture. Vice President Dick Cheney’s chief counsel David Addington addressed Goldsmith with dripping sarcasm, accusing him of undermining the powers of the President, Newsweek reported in its Feb. 6, 2006, edition. “Now that you’ve withdrawn legal opinions that the President of the United States has been relying on,” Addington reportedly told Goldsmith, “I need you to go through all of OLC’s opinions (relating to the War on Terror) and let me know which ones you still stand by.” Goldsmith’s opposition to Bush’s program for warrantless wiretapping of Americans brought the tensions to a head. He drew support from Comey, who refused to sign a recertification of the wiretap program in March 2004 when he was filling in for ailing Attorney General Ashcroft. White House chief of staff Andrew Card and Bush’s counsel Alberto Gonzales rushed to visit Ashcroft, who was hospitalized for gallbladder surgery. Faced with Comey’s objections – and the resistance from Goldsmith – Ashcroft also balked at continuing the wiretap program, which was temporarily suspended while a compromise was reached on more safeguards. [NYT, Jan. 1, 2006] The battle over the warrantless wiretaps reportedly earned Comey the derisive nickname from Bush as “Cuomey” or just “Cuomo,” a strong insult from Republicans who deem the former New York governor to be both excessively liberal and famously indecisive. Comey – previously a well-respected Republican lawyer who was credited with prosecuting key terrorism cases including the Khobar Towers bombing which killed 19 U.S. servicemen in 1996 – had been deputy attorney general since December 2003. (to be continued)In ChristJeff
Part 2Plame Case But by 2004, Comey already was wearing out his welcome with the White House. He also was responsible for picking Patrick Fitzgerald to be special prosecutor to investigate who leaked the identity of a covert CIA officer after her husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, criticized Bush’s misuse of intelligence on Iraq. In 2003, when Ashcroft was still handling the investigation, Bush had expressed confidence that the leakers would never be identified. But Ashcroft stepped aside because of conflicts of interest and his deputy, Comey, selected U.S. Attorney Fitzgerald. By mid-2004, Fitzgerald was proving himself to be a dogged investigator as he zeroed in on Cheney’s chief of staff Lewis Libby and Bush’s political adviser Karl Rove as two officials suspected of exposing CIA officer Valerie Plame. Demanding testimony from prominent journalists, such as New York Times correspondent Judith Miller, Fitzgerald was too high profile for the White House to easily remove. But the days of Comey – Fitzgerald’s chief ally – were numbered. After the “torture memo” leaked to the Washington Post in June 2004, Comey and Goldsmith threw down the gauntlet again, leading the fight to repudiate the memo and pressing for a revised version that deleted the most controversial elements, again angering the White House, according to Newsweek. Facing withering criticism from White House hardliners, Goldsmith was the first big name to go. In summer 2004, a battered and exhausted Goldsmith quit the Justice Department to become a professor at Harvard Law School. Comey’s Departure A year later, Comey followed Goldsmith out of the department, going into private law practice. On Aug. 15, 2005, in his farewell speech, Comey urged his colleagues to defend the integrity and honesty of the department. “I expect that you will appreciate and protect an amazing gift you have received as an employee of the Department of Justice,” Comey said. “It is a gift you may not notice until the first time you stand up and identify yourself as an employee of the Department of Justice and say something – whether in a courtroom, a conference room or a cocktail party – and find that total strangers believe what you say next. “That gift – the gift that makes possible so much of the good we accomplish – is a reservoir of trust and credibility, a reservoir built for us, and filled for us, by those who went before – most of whom we never knew. They were people who made sacrifices and kept promises to build that reservoir of trust. “Our obligation – as the recipients of that great gift – is to protect that reservoir, to pass it to those who follow, those who may never know us, as full as we got it. The problem with reservoirs is that it takes tremendous time and effort to fill them, but one hole in a dam can drain them. “The protection of that reservoir requires vigilance, an unerring commitment to truth, and a recognition that the actions of one may affect the priceless gift that benefits all. I have tried my absolute best – in matters big and small – to protect that reservoir and inspire others to protect it.” Bush first tried to replace Comey with Timothy Flanigan, a former deputy White House counsel who had become general counsel of Tyco International. But Flanigan’s nomination foundered over questions about his dealings with corrupt Republican lobbyist Jack Abramoff and Flanigan’s role in developing White House interrogation policies. (to be continued)In ChristJeff
Part 3 and end of article...‘Torture Memo’ In 2002, as deputy to then-White House counsel Gonzales, Flanigan joined other right-wing lawyers in advocating legal strategies for protecting administration officials implicated in abuse of detainees. An Aug. 1, 2002, memo – prepared by hardliners in the Justice Department and signed by Jay Bybee, then-chief of the Office of Legal Counsel – defined torture so narrowly that interrogators would have wide latitude in abusing prisoners to extract information. The memo also sought to give Bush authority to order outright torture of detainees. This “torture memo” argued that U.S. government operatives should be spared prosecution for torture if they had Bush’s approval. Flanigan sat in on at least one meeting during which lawyers discussed various torture techniques, including telling detainees that they would be buried alive and subjecting them to “waterboarding” which involves tying a person to a board and using water to simulate drowning. Flanigan and Addington reportedly tried to shepherd this policy through the government by limiting the opportunities for critical comments. As Newsweek reported, Flanigan and Addington “came up with a solution: cut virtually everyone else out.” During questioning by the Senate Judiciary Committee on his nomination to replace Comey, Flanigan declined to say whether he voiced support for the “torture memo” in its original version, although he did say he supported a revised – less sweeping – version in December 2004. Flanigan also told the committee that he saw ambiguities in setting limits on the abuse of detainees, saying that he did “not believe that the term ‘inhumane’ is susceptible to succinct definition.” As the fight over his nomination grew more contentious, Flanigan asked Bush to withdraw his name on Oct. 6, 2005. [Washington Post, Oct. 8, 2005] With Flanigan’s nomination in flames, the acting deputy to now-Attorney General Gonzales became Paul McNulty, who also has a strong pedigree as a hardline Republican legal operative, a Bush loyalist and a member of Gonzales’s inner circle. McNulty was chief counsel to the Republican-run House Judiciary Committee when it pressed for impeachment of Democratic President Bill Clinton in 1998. McNulty also headed Bush’s Justice Department transition team after Election 2000. [NYT, Oct. 21, 2005] Plame Probe Since Gonzales – like Ashcroft – has recused himself on the Plame leak investigation, McNulty also has inherited the job of overseeing Fitzgerald. In that position, the deputy attorney general can apply subtle pressure on the special prosecutor through the allotment of staff and other bureaucratic means. The notion of constraining the work of a special prosecutor by gaining control of his oversight is not unprecedented. After Iran-Contra special prosecutor Lawrence Walsh broke through a long-running White House cover-up of that scandal in 1991, Republican Supreme Court Chief Justice William Rehnquist engineered a behind-the-scenes coup against the senior judge overseeing Walsh. In 1992, Rehnquist ousted moderate Republican Judge George MacKinnon as chief of the three-judge panel that picked and oversaw independent counsels. MacKinnon had staunchly backed Walsh, another old-time Republican jurist, as he peeled back the secrets of the complex Iran-Contra schemes, which threatened George H.W. Bush’s reelection. At that key moment, Rehnquist replaced MacKinnon with Judge David Sentelle, one of President Ronald Reagan’s conservative judicial appointees and a protégé of Sen. Jesse Helms, then one of the most right-wing Republicans in the U.S. Congress. Earlier, as a judge on the U.S. Court of Appeals in Washington, Sentelle had teamed with another Republican judge, Laurence Silberman, to overturn the felony convictions of Oliver North in 1990. Sentelle also provided one of the two votes in 1991 to throw out the convictions of North’s boss, National Security Adviser John Poindexter. Faced with these obstructions, Walsh had come to view the Reagan-Bush loyalists on the U.S. Court of Appeals as “a powerful band of Republican appointees [who] waited like the strategic reserves of an embattled army.” Sentelle, who had named his daughter Reagan after the President, was one of those “strategic reserves.” A dozen years later, George W. Bush executed a similar maneuver, replacing a relatively non-partisan Republican (Comey) with two candidates who are considered more politically reliable – or some might say pliable (Flanigan and McNulty). With Comey gone, Fitzgerald still pressed ahead with his investigation of the White House leak of Plame’s identity, but he had lost the strong institutional support that Comey had provided. On Oct. 28, 2005, Fitzgerald indicted Libby for lying to investigators and obstructing justice, but the special prosecutor backed off from his expected indictment of Rove, who had become Bush’s deputy chief of staff. (Significantly, Libby was replaced as Cheney’s chief of staff by David Addington, who had helped formulate the White House policy on torture.) On Feb. 6, 2006 – with few Americans knowing or understanding the significance of this history – Gonzales testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee, avoiding any details about the internal disputes on the legality of Bush’s warrantless wiretaps. Gonzales simply told the senators that the administration’s reading of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 let Bush bypass its seemingly clear language requiring warrants from a special secret court for wiretaps of communications originating in the United States. Even Republican senators Arlen Specter and Lindsey Graham objected to the administration’s strained interpretation of the law. But Bush, in effect, is buying time while he builds federal judicial majorities in favor of his vision of an all-powerful presidency. Bush took a big step in that direction with the confirmation of Justice Samuel Alito, an architect of the so-called “unitary executive” theory. The U.S. Supreme Court now has at least four of nine justices who favor granting the President virtually unlimited powers as Commander in Chief. In the meantime, Bush is relying on shrewd bureaucratic maneuvers – neutralizing and removing skeptics – in order to fend off harassing actions by Democrats and other Americans, including traditional Republican lawyers, who oppose Bush’s extraordinary assertions of power. —-—-— Robert Parry broke many of the Iran-Contra stories in the 1980s for the Associated Press and Newsweek.
Why list this article? Do you see how men labor to hide what they do in the dark? As we continue to see the type of fruit that is produced, how should we walk in light of what we discern?Matt. 7:17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.Should we continue to hope that this tree might someday squeak out a good fruit?In ChristJeff
Here is another article which points to the kind of fruit that is ripening:By Ahmed RashidRepublished from The Washington PostWhatever ambiguity there was in the past is gone: Bin Laden is in Pakistan.Lahore – When President Bush lands in Islamabad later this week, it may be the closest he ever comes to being in the same neighborhood as Osama bin Laden. His nemesis is probably only a few hours drive away in Pakistan’s Pashtun belt, now considered to be al Qaeda Central and one of the world’s most dangerous regions.During the past 12 months or so, CIA and Pentagon officials have quietly modified the line they employed for three years after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks – that bin Laden was hiding out “in the tribal areas along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border.” Now the same officials say with some confidence that he is “not based in Afghanistan.” Whatever ambiguity there was in the past is gone: Bin Laden is in Pakistan.What’s left is the question: What are the United States and its ally, Pakistan, doing about it?Not enough, according to high-ranking Afghan, Pakistani and Western officials I’ve spoken to here. Indeed, the disastrous policies of the United States and Pakistan, starting with the aftermath of the war in 2001, have only hastened the radicalization of northwest Pakistan and made it more hospitable to bin Laden and his Taliban allies. The region has become a haven for bin Laden and a base for Taliban raids across the border back into Afghanistan which they had fled.Not that you’d be able to tell any of that from what Bush administration officials have been saying. Almost everything the administration claims about the al Qaeda leader is tinged with bravado and untruthfulness. “We are dealing with a figure who has been able to hide, but he’s on the run,” Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said earlier this month. Here in Pakistan, however, the view is different. Bin Laden is not considered to be on the run, but well protected by friends who are making his life as comfortable as possible.After all, his number two, the Egyptian doctor Ayman al-Zawahiri, appears to have a busy social calendar in Pakistan’s Pashtun belt. U.S. missiles narrowly missed him at a dinner party held in his honor on Jan. 13.This represents a change in venue for bin Laden and his lieutenants. Before the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, bin Laden’s zone of influence was among Pashtuns in Afghanistan, which was the center of the Taliban’s power and its major recruiting base. The Pashtuns are Afghanistan’s largest ethnic group and have ruled the country for the past 300 years. They were artificially divided by the British so that today millions of Pashtuns also live across the border in Pakistan, many of them in seven so-called tribal agencies where control by the government has been minimal.It was in eastern Afghanistan that bin Laden made his last public appearance in Jalalabad on Nov. 10, 2001, just after the northern cities had begun to fall to the anti-Taliban alliance. He addressed an estimated 1,000 Pashtun notables and militants, urging them to continue resisting the American invaders, according to U.S. journalists working in the region at the time. He dished out wads of U.S. and Pakistani cash and then disappeared into the mountain fastness of Tora Bora, never to be seen again. (The CIA didn’t learn of the meeting for several days.)Few Afghan Pashtuns would have dared to betray him then. But times have changed in Afghanistan. The majority of Afghan Pashtuns now want the benefits of peace – economic development, roads and schools.Pakistan’s Pashtuns, by contrast, have become more radicalized than they ever were before 9/11. And the bloody Taliban-al Qaeda resurgence now under way has relied on Pakistan’s Pashtun belt for most of its recruitment, logistics, weapons and funding.Bin Laden’s new friendship zone stretches nearly 2,000 miles along Pakistan’s Pashtun belt – from Chitral in the Northern Areas near the Chinese border, south through the troubled tribal agencies including Waziristan, down to Zhob on the Balochistan border, then to the provincial capital Quetta and southwest to the Iranian border. The region includes every landscape from desert to snow-capped mountains. Sparsely populated, it provides bin Laden an ideal sanctuary.Al Qaeda’s money, inspiration and organizational abilities have helped turn Pakistan’s Pashtun belt into the extremist base it is today, but U.S. and Pakistani policies have helped more. Although the Taliban and al Qaeda extremists were routed from Afghanistan by U.S. forces, Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld’s refusal to put enough U.S. troops on the ground let the extremists escape and regroup in Pakistan’s Pashtun belt. The Taliban settled in Balochistan where they had originated before 1994, while al Qaeda members hid in the tribal agencies they knew well. Bin Laden had built tunnels and caves there for the anti-Soviet mujaheddin in the 1980s.What followed was a disaster: For 27 months after the fall of the Taliban regime, Pakistan’s president, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, Washington’s closest ally in the region, allowed the extremists free rein in the Pashtun tribal areas to re-establish training camps for militants who had escaped Afghanistan. These included Arabs, Central Asians, Chechens, Kashmiris, Africans, Uighurs and a smattering of East Asians. It was a mini-replay of the gathering in Afghanistan after bin Laden arrived there in 1996.Musharraf did capture some Arab members of al Qaeda, but he avoided the Taliban because he was convinced that the U.S.-led coalition forces would not stay long in Afghanistan. He wanted to maintain the Taliban as a strategic option in case Afghanistan dissolved into civil war and chaos again. The army also protected extremist Kashmiri groups who had trained in Afghanistan before 9/11 and now had to be repositioned.Indeed, in March 2002, just three months after the defeat of the Taliban, the United States began to withdraw its Special Forces, surveillance satellites and drones from Afghanistan to prepare for war in Iraq. Distracted by Baghdad, it did not notice what was happening in the tribal agencies. By the time the Pakistan army entered South Waziristan in March 2004, the extremists were so well entrenched that 250 Pakistani soldiers were killed in the first encounters.Since then, with no consistent political strategy to woo the Pashtun population away from bin Laden, the army has steadily lost ground. The political agents, who ran the tribal agencies with a mixture of bribery and pressure, have been replaced by arrogant generals ignorant of local conditions. Today the extremists rule over North and South Waziristan and other tribal agencies, while the 70,000 Pakistani troops stationed there are boxed up in outposts, too frightened to patrol the mountains. More than 100 pro-government tribal elders have been assassinated by extremists for divulging information to the U.S. or Pakistani secret services.Meanwhile down south, the Balochistan provincial government is controlled by a coalition of pro-Taliban fundamentalist parties, which came to power in elections in 2002. Jamiat-e-Ulema-i-Islami, the party that controls the key ministries, openly supports the Taliban.This has created a new stronghold from which the Taliban can launch attacks back in Afghanistan. The 99 U.S. soldiers killed last year in Afghanistan were mostly targeted by the Taliban based in Balochistan. While Washington’s principal aim has been to capture bin Laden and decapitate al Qaeda, whose members are believed to be in Waziristan, the United States has failed to pressure Pakistan to deal with the Taliban, despite protestations from Afghan President Hamid Karzai. On a visit to Islamabad this month, Karzai handed Musharraf intelligence dossiers detailing how suicide bombers are being trained in Pakistan. In the past few months, at least 30 attacks have killed nearly 100 people in Afghanistan, including NATO peacekeepers and a Canadian diplomat.The dossiers listed the names and addresses of Pakistani recruiters and people who equip suicide bombers with explosives before sending them to Afghanistan. Much of the recruitment takes place at a radical Islamic bookshop, several mosques and some madrassas in the port city of Karachi, while the training is done at safe houses in Quetta and Chaman, in Balochistan province.“We have provided President Musharraf with a lot of very detailed information on acts of terrorism . . . and we discussed in great detail what actions Pakistan could now take,” Karzai told me on Feb. 17 in Islamabad. ‘’Americans are dying, a Canadian diplomat has been killed, our people are suffering. So it is time that action is taken to stop these acts of terrorism and interference in Afghanistan internal affairs,” he said. “We expect results.”Getting those results won’t be easy. Bin Laden has fighters and sympathizers down the length and breadth of Pakistan’s Pashtun belt. No Pakistani Pashtun has reason to betray bin Laden, despite the $27 million reward for his head. Thanks to the drug trade in Afghanistan and the suitcases full of cash still arriving from backers in the Arabian Gulf, neither al Qaeda nor the local Pashtuns are short money. The Pakistani army’s failure to offer Pashtuns a greater political role in the national framework has not inspired any loyalty among the tribesmen. And misguided U.S. interventions, such as the January missile strike that killed women and children, do the rest.Washington’s recent decison to start pulling U.S. troops out of Afghanistan this year has only reinforced al Qaeda’s belief that it is winning. After nearly five years of avoiding capture or death, every single day that bin Laden stays alive is a day that inspires the extremists who protect him and join his ranks.(end of article)Unlike Iraq and Iran, Pakistan does have WMDs.In ChristJeff
CNNBush: Bin Laden helped me, book saysWASHINGTON (Reuters) -- President Bush said his 2004 re-election victory over Sen. John Kerry was inadvertently aided by Osama bin Laden, The Washington Examiner newspaper reported Tuesday.The al Qaeda leader had issued a taped diatribe against Bush the Friday before Americans went to the pollsBush said there were "enormous amounts of discussion" inside his campaign about the 15-minute tape, which he called "an interesting entry by our enemy" into the presidential race.Bush's comments in the Washington newspaper were excerpts from the new book "Strategery" by Bill Sammon, a longtime White House correspondent."What does it mean? Is it going to help? Is it going to hurt?" Bush told Sammon of the bin Laden tapes. "Anything that drops in at the end of a campaign that is not already decided creates all kinds of anxieties, because you're not sure of the effect."I thought it was going to help," Bush said. "I thought it would help remind people that if bin Laden doesn't want Bush to be the president, something must be right with Bush."(end of article)Could it be that bin Laden lives because of Bush?What is the truth?In ChristJeff
i always wondered why people thought bin-laden was on the run. he ran from tora bora but it seems he ran to a place of safety where he need not run anymore...them tribesmen are so independant not even the pakistani nor afghan armies want any beef with them, and rightfully so...Lord you know...
BBC Iran may pose a greater challenge than any other nation to the US, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has said. She said Iran was determined to develop nuclear weapons, was the "central banker for terrorism" in the Middle East and was a block to democracy. Her comments to a Congressional hearing in Washington came as Iran vowed to resist international pressure over its nuclear programme. Iran insists it has the right to civilian nuclear technology. It denies accusations from the US and EU that it is seeking to develop nuclear weapons. Sanctions threat Ms Rice said: "We may face no greater challenge from a single country than from Iran, whose policies are directed at developing a Middle East that would be 180 degrees different than the Middle East that we would like to see develop." Ms Rice said Iran seemed determined " to develop a nuclear weapon in defiance of the international community". She added: "Iranian support for terrorism is retarding, and in some cases, helping to arrest the growth of democratic and stable governments [in the Middle East]." Earlier, Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said his country would continue its drive towards mastering nuclear technology. "The Iranian people and the officials of the Islamic republic of Iran, more powerful than before and like steel, will stand against any pressure or conspiracy," he said. A report written by the International Atomic Energy Agency has been forwarded to the UN Security Council. The document, leaked to the media last week, says the Iranians have begun feeding uranium gas into centrifuges, a first step in a process that can produce fuel for nuclear reactors or bomb material. The Security Council is expected to discuss the issue as early as next week. The council has the power to impose sanctions, but it is not clear that all its key members would back them. (end of article)Satan is really stirring up the seas of men isn't he: wars and rumors of wars. We are engaged in two wars at this present time. I sounds like it will be three soon. In the OT, God began to diminish the Northern kingdom of Israel by sending nations all around it to take away it's strength similar to the ways we see today. Amos 39 \t“Proclaim in the palaces at Ashdod,\tAnd in the palaces in the land of Egypt, and say:\t‘Assemble on the mountains of Samaria;\tSee great tumults in her midst,\tAnd the oppressed within her. 10 \tFor they do not know to do right,’\tSays the LORD,\t“Who store up violence and robbery in their palaces.’ ” Amos 3:11 Therefore thus says the Lord GOD:\t“An adversary shall be all around the land;\tHe shall sap your strength from you,\tAnd your palaces shall be plundered.” In ChristJeff
NY TimesHe said the United Nations Security Council would 'impose meaningful consequences' on Iran if it proceeded with uranium enrichment.WASHINGTON, March 7 — Vice President Dick Cheney declared Tuesday that the United Nations Security Council would “impose meaningful consequences” on Iran if it proceeded with uranium enrichment activities, and the Bush administration put an end to talk of compromise with Iran as floated by Russia. But the administration’s tough language pressing the Tehran government to return to a suspension of its enrichment program left unclear what the Security Council would do when it takes up Iran’s case next week. The administration’s goal is to win consent for a statement by the Security Council president calling on Iran to cooperate with the demand for a freeze on its nuclear activities.Despite Mr. Cheney’s comments, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice ruled out an early push for sanctions.“There is still time, of course, for the Iranians to react,” Ms. Rice said after meeting with the Russian foreign minister, Sergey V. Lavrov, at the State Department. “But we have been very clear that we did not think that as a first matter, we would try to move to sanctions in the first step of the Security Council.”The Russians have been pushing for a proposal to let Iran join with Russia in enriching uranium for nuclear fuel on Russian soil. But European diplomats said Monday that the Russians had also floated the idea of letting Iran continue a small amount of uranium enrichment in Iran as a face-saving compromise.Iran maintains that it has the right to enrich uranium for fuel for nuclear energy, but the United States and the three European nations involved in the negotiations charge that Iran has used its civilian energy program to hide a weapons program. Western experts say even small-scale, experimental enrichment poses a threat.Russia’s proposal drew American criticism the moment it came up in Vienna, home of the International Atomic Energy Agency, on Monday. Ms. Rice telephoned Mohamed ElBaradei, the agency’s director, who had disclosed that a possible compromise was in the offing, telling him that the United States was opposed to it, various officials said.On Tuesday, the Russian proposal all but disappeared, apparently under American and European pressure. Indeed, Foreign Minister Lavrov said Tuesday, as Ms. Rice nodded in agreement, that no such proposal ever existed. “There is no compromise new Russian proposal,” he said. The proposal for the joint Iranian-Russian enrichment on Russian soil “is not a new one,” he added. “It was welcomed by all participants of the process, and there is no compromise proposal, and there could not be any compromise proposal.”After Mr. Lavrov’s comments, three Western diplomats, asking not to be identified by country because their governments did not want to appear to criticize Russia, said they thought that either Mr. Lavrov was pulling back a trial balloon, or the Russians who had floated the compromise in Vienna did so without authorization.Some said that in their experience, lower-level leaders of the Russian Foreign Ministry were very eager to avoid a confrontation with Iran and to exploit Iran’s impasse with the West, while Mr. Lavrov and the Russian president, Vladimir V. Putin, were more concerned about Iran’s nuclear ambitions.Mr. Cheney, speaking to an overflow crowd of nearly 5,000 applauding guests at a meeting of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, used blunt language that seemed to hint of military action or possibly the overthrow of the government in Tehran, though he mentioned neither option explicitly.“For our part, the United States is keeping all options on the table in addressing the irresponsible conduct of the regime,” he said of Iran. “And we join other nations in sending that regime a clear message: We will not allow Iran to have a nuclear weapon.”He also said “America supports as well the democratic aspirations of the people of Iran” and the removal of what he called its current “fanatical regime.”Administration officials said Mr. Cheney, one of the strongest advocates of the war to overthrow Saddam Hussein in Iraq, had more recently promoted a drive to bring Iranian scholars and students to America, blanket the country with radio and television broadcasts and support Iranian political dissidents.That $85 million State Department program is being overseen by Elizabeth Cheney, a principal deputy assistant secretary of state for Near Eastern affairs, who is also the vice president’s daughter. Meanwhile, Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld said Tuesday at a Pentagon news conference that Iran had recently been infiltrating paramilitary personnel into Iraq “to do things that are harmful.” He described the Iranian personnel as members of the Al Quds Force of the Revolutionary Guards, which he said conducts terrorist operations. But intelligence officials say evidence of involvement by Iran’s paramilitary in the violence in Iraq is not clear.The board of the International Atomic Energy Agency has been meeting in Vienna this week to discuss the issue of Iran. Dr. ElBaradei has, on one hand, assailed Iran for concealing its nuclear activities and said he could not certify that it was not pursuing a weapons program.On the other hand, he has expressed hope for a compromise, fearing that Tehran will walk away entirely from cooperating with the agency.United Nations diplomats say they expect the Council to support a statement by its president calling on Iran to cooperate with the West, rather than passing a formal resolution. Such a statement would not require a vote but would be backed implicitly by all 15 members of the Council.(end of article)Doesn't this all look familiar? Remember 3 1/2 years ago prior to bombing Iraq? Let us discern our times. Watch to see how the media is used to convince the people in the way that we should go. The question for us who are believers is, what is the Holy Spirit saying? In ChristJeff
bro JeffDoesn't this all look familiar? Remember 3 1/2 years ago prior to bombing Iraq? Let us discern our times. Watch to see how the media is used to convince the people in the way that we should go. The question for us who are believers is, what is the Holy Spirit saying?bro what i hear from heaven is that the Lord is setting the stage to bring about the demise of this nation economically, millitarily and governmentally to bring us to a point of desperation.this will no doubt affect the rest of the world the idea being that in our desperation we will seek after Him with all dilligence and He will bring to us what Ravenhill and many others have sought of Him till their deaths and that which we also seek for, REVIVAL!!!praise God i see it coming!!!
CNNSenate permits national debt to grow to $9 trillionWASHINGTON (AP) -- The Senate voted Thursday to allow the national debt to swell to nearly $9 trillion, preventing a first-ever default on U.S. Treasury notes.The bill passed by a 52-48 vote. The increase to $9 trillion represents about $30,000 for every man, woman and child in the United States. The bill now goes to President Bush for his signature.The measure allows the government to pay for the war in Iraq and finance Medicare and other big federal programs without raising taxes. It passed hours before the House was expected to approve another $91 billion to fund the war in Iraq and provide more aid to hurricane victims.The partisan vote also came as the Senate continued debate on a $2.8 trillion budget blueprint for the upcoming fiscal year that would produce a $359 billion deficit for the fiscal year beginning October 1.The debt limit will increase by $781 billion. It's the fourth such move -- increasing the debt limit by a total of $3 trillion -- since Bush took office five years ago...(end of article)In five years the debt has increased by over 60%. This is not the fault of one man but the fault of a nation. How many are drunk with this wine. How have we become blind in our pursuit of satisfaction and security that money is perceived to supply?In ChristJeff
bro Jeffi don't understand how we can call ourselves the wealthiest nation if we have the most debt :-? That 9 trillion is going to have to come from somewhere...the Lord is about to tear this nation to ribbons to bring us to a point of desperation so we can seek His Him in earnesty that we may be revived and resurrected.Lord your will be done indeed.AMEN.
Bro. Jeff ...You might find this article on Iran and it's President interesting ...United Press InternationalIntl. Intelligencehttp://www.upi.com/InternationalIntelligence/view.php?StoryID=20060202-013939-9267rCommentary: Later than we thinkBy: ARNAUD DE BORCHGRAVEUPI editor at largeWASHINGTON, Feb. 2 (UPI) -- The man in charge of hoodwinking the Western powers about Iran's now 18-year-old secret nuclear program believes the apocalypse will happen in his own lifetime. He'll be 50 in October.President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's Shiite creed has convinced him lesser mortals can not only influence, but also hasten the awaited return of the 12th imam known as the Mahdi. Iran's dominant "Twelver" sect holds this will be Mohammed ibn Hasan, the righteous descendant of the Prophet Mohammad. He is said to have gone into "occlusion" in the 9th century, at the age of five. His return will be preceded by cosmic chaos, war, bloodshed and pestilence. After this cataclysmic confrontation between the forces of good and evil, the Mahdi will lead the world to an era of universal peace."The ultimate promise of all divine religions," says Ahmadinejad, "will be fulfilled with the emergence of a perfect human being (the 12th Imam), who is heir to all prophets. He will lead the world to justice and absolute peace. Oh mighty Lord, I pray to you to hasten the emergence of your last repository, the promised one." He reckons the return of the imam who has been AWOL for 11 centuries is only two years away.Ahmadinejad is close to the messianic Hojjatieh Society, which is governed by the conviction the 12th imam's return will be hastened by "the creation of chaos on Earth." He has fired Iran's most experienced diplomats and scores of other officials, presumably those who don't share his belief in apocalyptic conflagration.The Iranian leader's finger on a nuclear trigger would be disquieting under any circumstances. Positively alarming would be a nuclear weapon in the hands of a man who badgers Israel, the United States and the European Union in the belief that a pre-emptive aerial attack on Iran's nuclear facilities will hasten the return of the missing Mahdi. Such an attack presumably would trigger anti-Western mayhem throughout the Middle East.When he became Iran's sixth president since the 1979 revolution last summer, Ahmadinejad decided to donate $20 million to the Jamkaran mosque, a popular pilgrimage site where the faithful can drop their missives to the "hidden imam" in a holy well. Tehran's working class faithful are convinced the new president and his Cabinet signed a "compact" pledging themselves to precipitate the return of the Mahdi -- and dropped it down Jamkaran's well with the Mahdi's zip code.In Ahmadinejad's eyes, Iran is strong with oil inching up to $70 a barrel and America, dependent on foreign oil, weak. He has said publicly America and Europe have far more to lose than Iran if the U.N. Security Council votes for tough economic sanctions.He also figures if Israeli and/or U.S. warplanes strike Iran, all he has to do is give the United States a hard time in Iraq as American forces prepare to withdraw. Moving two or three Iranian divisions into Iraq and activating Shiite suicide bombers and hit squads throughout the region would not be too hard a job for a country that fought an eight-year war against Iraq (1980-88) and had no compunction about giving thousands of youngsters a key to paradise and 72 virgins before sending them across Iraqi minefields.A top Ahmadinejad general, Brig.-Gen. Mohammad Kossari, who heads the political watchdog, or Security Bureau, of Iran's armed forces, recently taunted the United States when he bragged: "We have identified all the weak points of our enemies" and have sufficient cannon fodder -- i.e., suicide operation volunteers -- "ready to strike at these sensitive locations." Iranian television recently broadcast an animated film for Iranian children glorifying suicide bombers.So far, Supreme Leader and chief of state Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who sits in the holy city of Qom, has not expostulated. Ahmadinejad appears to have his religious rear well covered. His ideological mentor and spiritual guide is Ayatollah Mesbah Yazdi who heads the ultra-conservative acolytes who believe the return of the 12th imam is "imminent."The son of a blacksmith, Ahmadinejad earned a doctoral degree in engineering and is a former member of Iran's notorious Revolutionary Guards at a time when dissidents and "counter-revolutionaries" were being executed by the thousands. Dr. A.Q. Khan, the father of Pakistan's nuclear arsenal, first showed Iran how to build a nuclear weapon 18 years ago. Khan also opened his nuclear black market to Iranian engineers and scientists.The Bush administration is anxious to clear the decks in a democratic Iraq before facing the Islamist counterpart of the "Rapture" in the "Left Behind" series of books on the end of times by Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins.President Bush says all options are on the table. But the military option is probably the one the "twelvers" would look forward to. Some think tank strategic thinkers in Washington argue if Iran's Dr. Strangelove attacked Israel with a nuclear weapon, five Iranian cities would be vaporized next day.It might behoove the United States to sit down with "axis of evil" Iran to find out if the MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) doctrine that kept the USSR and the United States at peace for half a century could still be made to work.In any event, one would have to be irredeemably myopic not to see that Iran has an active nuclear weapons program. The only question is how far this secret program is from delivering a useable weapon and then fitting it in the nose cone of a Shahab-3 missile with the range to reach Israel. The Israeli air force will be "overhead" Iran long before that.Mahdihttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MahdiHojjatieh Societyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hojjatieh
Hi Brother it is good to hear from you. All of these things bring to light how Satan is at work. The seas of men are being cast about in the gathering violence of the impending storm...Only those who KNOW the Rock and all that that means will be able to weather the storm. These only will go forth in peace while the winds and hail beat everything down around them.God Bless In ChristJeff
In the last posts I have been giving examples of things which seem like it shouldn't be. How can those who lead this nation act in such a way? We are always told that we as Christians should obey our leaders according to Paul's teaching because God has ordained them to lead. I was reading in Isaiah this weekend and this is what I found when God brings judgment upon the nation Israel.Is. 3:1 For behold, the Lord, the LORD of hosts,\tTakes away from Jerusalem and from Judah\tThe stock and the store,\tThe whole supply of bread and the whole supply of water; 2 \tThe mighty man and the man of war,\tThe judge and the prophet,\tAnd the diviner and the elder; 3 \tThe captain of fifty and the honorable man,\tThe counselor and the skillful artisan,\tAnd the expert enchanter. 4 \t“I will give children to be their princes,\tAnd babes shall rule over them. In this judgment God has taken away the strong leader and in his place has given these backward sliden people a leader that resembles the maturity of children. Have you ever meditated on this precept? In ChristJeff
Isaiah 3:6 \tWhen a man takes hold of his brother\tIn the house of his father, saying,\t“You have clothing;\tYou be our ruler,\tAnd let these ruins be under your power,” Where do our leaders come from? Are they brought up in the fear of God or are they chosen because of their outward appearance? What do you see?In ChristJeff
Here is an editorial from the New Era Lancaster Pa paper...Is Pa, ready for celebrity govenor?by G. Terry Madonna and Michael YoungWhether Lynn Swann becomes the Republican candidate for govenor or not, his candidacy has sparked a major debate about the role celebrity plays in politics..Commentators have been quick to point out that gubernatorial voters in other states have elected celebrities like Arnold Schwarzenegger and Jesse Bentura, who had no prior political or elective office experience. This is true, but also somewhat misleading. In fact, the complex role of celebrity in American politics needs examination before any sound assessment of the Swann candidacy can be offered.In some parts of the country, celebrity politicians are common and even expected. California is notorious for running celebrities, but states as diverse as Minnesota, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Idaho and New York have also fostered celebrity politicians.Pennsylvania, by contrast, has little experience with celebrity candidacies--and absolutely none with celebrity candidates running for govenor or U.S. senator. The closest we have come to having a genuine celebrity candidate was speculation--now decades old---that champion golfer Arnold Palmer might run for govenor or that football coach Joe Paterno might give up racing around the sidelines for racing around the state as a candidate.Given the dearth of celebrity candidates in Pennsylvania, Swann's run must be considered against the backdrop of national experience. Certainly he is not the first sports figure to tackle politics. Across the country, Swann's predecessor celebrities-cum-politicians include a fair number of athletes.New Jersey's former U.S. Senator (and former New York Knicks star) Bill Bradley is probably best known. Kentucky's U.S. Senator Jim Bunting was a Hall of Fame baseball player before politics. A number of former football players have succeded in politics, including New York's Jack Kemp and Oklahoma's J.C.Watts and Steve Largent.Not surprisingly, entertainment has produced more celebrity candidates than any other field. The preeminent celebrity candidate was Ronald Reagan. In more recent times, Schwarzenegger epitomizes the "type." Other entertainers turned politicians include singer Sonny Bonno (U.S. House) actor Fred Grandy who played "Gopher" on Love Boat (U.S. House) , actor George Murphy (U.S. Senate), and actor Fred Thompson of Law and Order (U.S. Senate)....How does Swann's candidacy fit into this pattern? Certainly Pennsylvania is not California or Minnesota. And Swann is not an Arnold or Jesse-style celebrity turned politician.But it is not celebrity so much as old-fashioned competitive two-party politics that has thrust Swann into prominence as a candidate.Normally, first-term govenors running for re-election don't draw strong opponents. But this year, Republicans as the "out party" believe they can make history and defeat an incumbent govenor. ...This prevailing mood has led some Republican leaders to support the politically uncoventional Swann, whose celebrity status brings instand media attention and large and enthusiastic crowds as speeches. His conservative social views, supply side economics, and compelling personal story have also fueled his candidacy. But Swann's celebrity has its limits --he has shown, to date, little mastery of the complexities of state government and has provided little in the way of policy prescriptions to the problems of state government...Have you noticed that these men have all served in this generation? Is this the kind of men that God speaks of in Isaiah 3? In ChristJeff
In ChristJeff
God has judged Judah and Jerusalem. He has taken away the mighty men, the judge, the prophet. In in their place He has given them men who are only children...What did this generation do?8 \tFor Jerusalem stumbled,\tAnd Judah is fallen,\tBecause their tongue and their doings\tAre against the LORD,\tTo provoke the eyes of His glory. 9 \tThe look on their countenance witnesses against them,\tAnd they declare their sin as Sodom;\tThey do not hide it.\tWoe to their soul!\tFor they have brought evil upon themselves. This generation declared their sin like that of Sodom. Sin had so permeated this nation that they became proud of their sin. The Scriptures tell us that they, "do not hide it." What do we see around us? Are our soul's vexed, or are we trying to be blind to what is going on around us? Is pride blinding us to how far our generation has fallen?In ChristJeff
The prophet Amos declares to us what was wrong with God's people back in the 700's BC. Amos 2:4 Thus says the LORD:\t“For three transgressions of Judah, and for four,\tI will not turn away its punishment,\tBecause they have despised the law of the LORD,\tAnd have not kept His commandments.\tTheir lies lead them astray,\tLies which their fathers followed. 5 \tBut I will send a fire upon Judah,\tAnd it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem.” Amos 2:6 Thus says the LORD:\t“For three transgressions of Israel, and for four,\tI will not turn away its punishment,\tBecause they sell the righteous for silver,\tAnd the poor for a pair of sandals. 7 \tThey pant after the dust of the earth which is on the head of the poor,\tAnd pervert the way of the humble.\tA man and his father go in to the same girl,\tTo defile My holy name. 8 \tThey lie down by every altar on clothes taken in pledge,\tAnd drink the wine of the condemned in the house of their god. Are our times like those of Amos' time?In ChristJeff
Here is one example of what Amos what talking about...Bush-Blair Iraq war memo revealed Tony Blair and George Bush met during the build-up to the Iraq war The New York Times says it has seen a memo which shows that the US president was firmly set on the path to war two months before the 2003 Iraq invasion. From private talks between George Bush and UK PM Tony Blair, the memo makes it clear the US was determined to go to war whether or not he had UN backing. He is quoted discussing ways to provoke Saddam Hussein into a confrontation. A UK lawyer quoted the note in a book published in January but this is the first time it has been seen in full. White House spokesman Scott McClellan refused to discuss the contents of the memo but said that up until the last moment, President Bush was interested in pursuing a diplomatic solution to the Iraq issue. 'Twist arms' The five-page memo, dated 31 January 2003, was written by Mr Blair's then chief foreign adviser, David Manning, the New York Times says. Summarising the two-hour White House meeting, the memo says: "Our diplomatic strategy had to be arranged around the military planning." A second resolution would give us international cover, especially with the Arabs Mr Bush is paraphrased as saying: "The start date for the military campaign was now pencilled in for 10 March. This was when the bombing would begin." Although the US and UK pushed for a second UN resolution on Iraq, the memo cites Mr Bush saying he did not believe one was needed. "The US would put its full weight behind efforts to get another resolution and would twist arms and even threaten," Mr Bush is paraphrased as saying. "But he had to say that if we ultimately failed, military action would follow anyway." Mr Blair is described as responding that both countries must make clear the second resolution was "Saddam's final opportunity". According to the note, he also told Mr Bush: "If anything went wrong with the military campaign, or if Saddam increased the stakes by burning the oil wells, killing children or fomenting internal divisions within Iraq, a second resolution would give us international cover, especially with the Arabs." The UK government has always insisted military action was used as a last resort against Saddam Hussein's regime. Downing Street has stressed Mr Blair only committed UK forces to Iraq after securing the approval of the House of Commons on 18 March 2003. 'Assassination plan' The memo indicates both leaders acknowledged it was possible no unconventional weapons would be found in Iraq before the invasion, the New York Times says. The note cites Mr Bush suggesting three ways in which Iraq could be provoked into confrontation. The US "was thinking of flying U2 reconnaissance aircraft with fighter cover over Iraq, painted in UN colours", Mr Bush said. If Saddam fired on them, the Iraqis would be in breach of UN resolutions, he suggested. He also indicated the US "might be able to bring out a defector" to talk about Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction, and mentioned a proposal to assassinate the Iraqi leader. Mr Bush describes US military strategy in some detail, including a concentrated air campaign. He predicted it "was unlikely there would be internecine warfare between the different religious and ethnic groups" - an opinion with which Mr Blair agreed. Mr McClellan said he would not comment on private conversations between the two leaders but did say Mr Bush's private comments matched those he made in public. Excerpts from the memo were first quoted by UK human rights lawyer Philippe Sands in his book Lawless World. (end of article)8 They lie down by every altar on clothes taken in pledge, And drink the wine of the condemned in the house of their god. Oil is their god...is oil our god?In ChristJeff
This is the complete article posted by the New York Times...The New York TimesBehind closed doors, the president made clear to Prime Minister Tony Blair of Britain that he was determined to invade Iraq. LONDON — In the weeks before the United States-led invasion of Iraq, as the United States and Britain pressed for a second United Nations resolution condemning Iraq, President Bush’s public ultimatum to Saddam Hussein was blunt: Disarm or face war.But behind closed doors, the president was certain that war was inevitable. During a private two-hour meeting in the Oval Office on Jan. 31, 2003, he made clear to Prime Minister Tony Blair of Britain that he was determined to invade Iraq without the second resolution, or even if international arms inspectors failed to find unconventional weapons, said a confidential memo about the meeting written by Mr. Blair’s top foreign policy adviser and reviewed by The New York Times.“Our diplomatic strategy had to be arranged around the military planning,” David Manning, Mr. Blair’s chief foreign policy adviser at the time, wrote in the memo that summarized the discussion between Mr. Bush, Mr. Blair and six of their top aides.“The start date for the military campaign was now penciled in for 10 March,” Mr. Manning wrote, paraphrasing the president. “This was when the bombing would begin.”The timetable came at an important diplomatic moment. Five days after the Bush-Blair meeting, Secretary of State Colin L. Powell was scheduled to appear before the United Nations to present the American evidence that Iraq posed a threat to world security by hiding unconventional weapons.Although the United States and Britain aggressively sought a second United Nations resolution against Iraq — which they failed to obtain — the president said repeatedly that he did not believe he needed it for an invasion. Stamped “extremely sensitive,” the five-page memorandum, which was circulated among a handful of Mr. Blair’s most senior aides, had not been made public. Several highlights were first published in January in the book “Lawless World,” which was written by a British lawyer and international law professor, Philippe Sands. In early February, Channel 4 in London first broadcast several excerpts from the memo.Since then, The New York Times has reviewed the five-page memo in its entirety. While the president’s sentiments about invading Iraq were known at the time, the previously unreported material offers an unfiltered view of two leaders on the brink of war, yet supremely confident. The memo indicates the two leaders envisioned a quick victory and a transition to a new Iraqi government that would be complicated, but manageable. Mr. Bush predicted that it was “unlikely there would be internecine warfare between the different religious and ethnic groups.” Mr. Blair agreed with that assessment.The memo also shows that the president and the prime minister acknowledged that no unconventional weapons had been found inside Iraq. Faced with the possibility of not finding any before the planned invasion, Mr. Bush talked about several ways to provoke a confrontation, including a proposal to paint a United States surveillance plane in the colors of the United Nations in hopes of drawing fire, or assassinating Mr. Hussein.Those proposals were first reported last month in the British press, but the memo does not make clear whether they reflected Mr. Bush’s extemporaneous suggestions, or were elements of the government’s plan.Consistent RemarksTwo senior British officials confirmed the authenticity of the memo, but declined to talk further about it, citing Britain’s Official Secrets Act, which made it illegal to divulge classified information. But one of them said, “In all of this discussion during the run-up to the Iraq war, it is obvious that viewing a snapshot at a certain point in time gives only a partial view of the decision-making process.”On Sunday, Frederick Jones, the spokesman for the National Security Council, said the president’s public comments were consistent with his private remarks made to Mr. Blair. “While the use of force was a last option, we recognized that it might be necessary and were planning accordingly,” Mr. Jones said. “The public record at the time, including numerous statements by the President, makes clear that the administration was continuing to pursue a diplomatic solution into 2003,” he said. “Saddam Hussein was given every opportunity to comply, but he chose continued defiance, even after being given one final opportunity to comply or face serious consequences. Our public and private comments are fully consistent.”The January 2003 memo is the latest in a series of secret memos produced by top aides to Mr. Blair that summarize private discussions between the president and the prime minister. Another group of British memos, including the so-called Downing Street memo written in July 2002, showed that some senior British officials had been concerned that the United States was determined to invade Iraq, and that the “intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy” by the Bush administration to fit its desire to go to war.The latest memo is striking in its characterization of frank, almost casual, conversation by Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair about the most serious subjects. At one point, the leaders swapped ideas for a postwar Iraqi government. “As for the future government of Iraq, people would find it very odd if we handed it over to another dictator,” the prime minister is quoted as saying.“Bush agreed,” Mr. Manning wrote. This exchange, like most of the quotations in this article, have not been previously reported.Mr. Bush was accompanied at the meeting by Condoleezza Rice, who was then the national security adviser; Dan Fried, a senior aide to Ms. Rice; and Andrew H. Card Jr., the White House chief of staff. Along with Mr. Manning, Mr. Blair was joined by two other senior aides: Jonathan Powell, his chief of staff, and Matthew Rycroft, a foreign policy aide and the author of the Downing Street memo.By late January 2003, United Nations inspectors had spent six weeks in Iraq hunting for weapons under the auspices of Security Council Resolution 1441, which authorized “serious consequences” if Iraq voluntarily failed to disarm. Led by Hans Blix, the inspectors had reported little cooperation from Mr. Hussein, and no success finding any unconventional weapons.At their meeting, Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair candidly expressed their doubts that chemical, biological or nuclear weapons would be found in Iraq in the coming weeks, the memo said. The president spoke as if an invasion was unavoidable. The two leaders discussed a timetable for the war, details of the military campaign and plans for the aftermath of the war. Discussing Provocation Without much elaboration, the memo also says the president raised three possible ways of provoking a confrontation. Since they were first reported last month, neither the White House nor the British government has discussed them.“The U.S. was thinking of flying U2 reconnaissance aircraft with fighter cover over Iraq, painted in U.N. colours,” the memo says, attributing the idea to Mr. Bush. “If Saddam fired on them, he would be in breach.” It also described the president as saying, “The U.S. might be able to bring out a defector who could give a public presentation about Saddam’s W.M.D,” referring to weapons of mass destruction. A brief clause in the memo refers to a third possibility, mentioned by Mr. Bush, a proposal to assassinate Saddam Hussein. The memo does not indicate how Mr. Blair responded to the idea.Mr. Sands first reported the proposals in his book, although he did not use any direct quotations from the memo. He is a professor of international law at University College of London and the founding member of the Matrix law office in London, where the prime minister’s wife, Cherie Blair, is a partner.Mr. Jones, the National Security Council spokesman, declined to discuss the proposals, saying, “We are not going to get into discussing private discussions of the two leaders.”At several points during the meeting between Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair, there was palpable tension over finding a legitimate legal trigger for going to war that would be acceptable to other nations, the memo said. The prime minister was quoted as saying it was essential for both countries to lobby for a second United Nations resolution against Iraq, because it would serve as “an insurance policy against the unexpected.” The memo said Mr. Blair told Mr. Bush, “If anything went wrong with the military campaign, or if Saddam increased the stakes by burning the oil wells, killing children or fomenting internal divisions within Iraq, a second resolution would give us international cover, especially with the Arabs.”Running Out of TimeMr. Bush agreed that the two countries should attempt to get a second resolution, but he added that time was running out. “The U.S. would put its full weight behind efforts to get another resolution and would twist arms and even threaten,” Mr. Bush was paraphrased in the memo as saying.The document added, “But he had to say that if we ultimately failed, military action would follow anyway.”The leaders agreed that three weeks remained to obtain a second United Nations Security Council resolution before military commanders would need to begin preparing for an invasion.Summarizing statements by the president, the memo says: “The air campaign would probably last four days, during which some 1,500 targets would be hit. Great care would be taken to avoid hitting innocent civilians. Bush thought the impact of the air onslaught would ensure the early collapse of Saddam’s regime. Given this military timetable, we needed to go for a second resolution as soon as possible. This probably meant after Blix’s next report to the Security Council in mid-February.”Mr. Blair was described as responding that both countries would make clear that a second resolution amounted to “Saddam’s final opportunity.” The memo described Mr. Blair as saying: “We had been very patient. Now we should be saying that the crisis must be resolved in weeks, not months.” It reported: “Bush agreed. He commented that he was not itching to go to war, but we could not allow Saddam to go on playing with us. At some point, probably when we had passed the second resolutions — assuming we did — we should warn Saddam that he had a week to leave. We should notify the media too. We would then have a clear field if Saddam refused to go.”Mr. Bush devoted much of the meeting to outlining the military strategy. The president, the memo says, said the planned air campaign “would destroy Saddam’s command and control quickly.” It also said that he expected Iraq’s army to “fold very quickly.” He also is reported as telling the prime minister that the Republican Guard would be “decimated by the bombing.” Despite his optimism, Mr. Bush said he was aware that “there were uncertainties and risks,” the memo says, and it goes on, “As far as destroying the oil wells were concerned, the U.S. was well equipped to repair them quickly, although this would be easier in the south of Iraq than in the north.” The two men briefly discussed plans for a post-Hussein Iraqi government. “The prime minister asked about aftermath planning,” the memo says. “Condi Rice said that a great deal of work was now in hand.Referring to the Defense Department, it said: “A planning cell in D.O.D. was looking at all aspects and would deploy to Iraq to direct operations as soon as the military action was over. Bush said that a great deal of detailed planning had been done on supplying the Iraqi people with food and medicine.” Planning for After the WarThe leaders then looked beyond the war, imagining the transition from Mr. Hussein’s rule to a new government. Immediately after the war, a military occupation would be put in place for an unknown period of time, the president was described as saying. He spoke of the “dilemma of managing the transition to the civil administration,” the memo says. The document concludes with Mr. Manning still holding out a last-minute hope of inspectors finding weapons in Iraq, or even Mr. Hussein voluntarily leaving Iraq. But Mr. Manning wrote that he was concerned this could not be accomplished by Mr. Bush’s timeline for war. “This makes the timing very tight,” he wrote. “We therefore need to stay closely alongside Blix, do all we can to help the inspectors make a significant find, and work hard on the other members of the Security Council to accept the noncooperation case so that we can secure the minimum nine votes when we need them, probably the end of February.”At a White House news conference following the closed-door session, Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair said “the crisis” had to be resolved in a timely manner. “Saddam Hussein is not disarming,” the president told reporters. “He is a danger to the world. He must disarm. And that’s why I have constantly said — and the prime minister has constantly said — this issue will come to a head in a matter of weeks, not months.”Despite intense lobbying by the United States and Britain, a second United Nations resolution was not obtained. The American-led military coalition invaded Iraq on March 19, 2003, nine days after the target date set by the president on that late January day at the White House.
I just read something that claims that the current Prime Minister of Britain, Tony Blair, is a Free Mason. If that is true, what might that imply as to who is leading Blair?Is it God or Satan?In Christjeff
Isaiah 3:11 \tWoe to the wicked! It shall be ill with him,\tFor the reward of his hands shall be given him. 12 \tAs for My people, children are their oppressors,\tAnd women rule over them.\tO My people! Those who lead you cause you to err,\tAnd destroy the way of your paths.” What do you hear in the media? Are not they starting to promote women to run for president? ie Condelisa Rice and Hillary Clinton....Do you see any parallels between then and now?In ChristJeff
bro Jeffwhoa now...i don't think this is coincidence, people will say "eh this doesn't apply to us" but somehow i think not...bro the Lord is setting to shake this nation up and the world big time. i hear from heaven 2007.Lord prepare us by any means necessary.AMEN.
Isaiah 3:14 \tThe LORD will enter into judgment\tWith the elders of His people\tAnd His princes:\t“For you have eaten up the vineyard;\tThe plunder of the poor is in your houses. 15 \tWhat do you mean by crushing My people\tAnd grinding the faces of the poor?”\tSays the Lord GOD of hosts. Like in the times of Israel, we find the same today. In Revelation 6: 6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine.” The prices of everything are beginning to increase well above the people's ability to pay for them. And why do we fight on foreign soil? Is it not to protect the oil? As we spend on the idol of fortress, our pantries grow bare.In ChristJeff
Isaiah 3Is. 3:16 Moreover the LORD says:\t“Because the daughters of Zion are haughty,\tAnd walk with outstretched necks\tAnd wanton eyes,\tWalking and mincing as they go,\tMaking a jingling with their feet, 17 \tTherefore the Lord will strike with a scab\tThe crown of the head of the daughters of Zion,\tAnd the LORD will uncover their secret parts.” 18 \tIn that day the Lord will take away the finery:\tThe jingling anklets, the scarves, and the crescents; 19 \tThe pendants, the bracelets, and the veils; 20 \tThe headdresses, the leg ornaments, and the headbands;\tThe perfume boxes, the charms, 21 Iand the rings;\tThe nose jewels, 22 Ithe festal apparel, and the mantles;\tThe outer garments, the purses, 23 Iand the mirrors;\tThe fine linen, the turbans, and the robes. I work at UCLA. The young women dress and act as these women that Isaiah writes about. I go to the grocery store and mall, and the housewives dress and act as these women that Isaiah writes about. I have attended church services where the women dress with their stomachs and underwear bare. One has to sit in the front row of the church in order to escape from the lust of the flesh...The women who say they believe spend $200 for a pair of jeans that have a name and embroidery on the back pockets. And the men are no better...Oh, how much was Isaiah's day like today...In ChristJeff
bro Jeffas you and i well know the judgement of the Lord on these daughters of Zion in the above scripture from vs 17 is upon us in this day also. The Lord's bride was pure in times past and holy in conduct yet it seems we think ourselves exempt from this standard on one hand, then on the other we say "the Lord is the same yesterday today and forever...For those that will, REPENT, REPENT, REPENT OR DIE!!!
Brother Farai wrote:The Lord's bride was pure in times past and holy in conduct yet it seems we think ourselves exempt from this standard on one hand, then on the other we say "the Lord is the same yesterday today and forever...I see it as you have said here. We believers hope that our nation would want the same things we want. Yet we ourselves desire the same things the world loves. We believers are cast to and fro by the winds of Satan. There is a strong dilution of the power of the truth that the word of God provides for those who say the word is good yet they deny it by giving into the pull of this world.In ChristJeff
My daughter and I attended a county wide science fair competition last Wednesday in Bakersfield Ca. (Katie won 1st place in Earth Sciences division...oh the pride of being a father). A scientist from Lawrence Livermore Laboratory gave an hour discertation based on energy. He began his discussion with asking the audience what is the most pressing problem facing our nation today. On the list of twenty things he listed: war on terror, democracy, debt, moral decay, crime, food, overpopulation and etc. The picture he painted identified energy as the most pressing problem facing our country. Many of the decision that our leader will make are in one way or another impacted by energy. There are some major changes coming. I have also begun reading a book by Kevin Phillips, a republican strategists from the Nixon era... this book has just appeared on the book stands. The name is "American Theocracy." The book is divided into three sections. The first discusses the oil industry. The second discusses the evangelical impact on those who lead our country. And the third discusses our debt. So i will be posting some of his observations here on this thread. To start, I have found this article, written by another concerning our presenct oil industry. Is Peak Oil Foreseeable? Peak Oil—the point at which the rate of global production of petroleum begins its inevitable historic decline—is a subject of growing public interest. The basic concept is derived from experience: during the past century-and-a-half all older oil wells have been observed to peak and decline in output. The same has been noted with entire oilfields, and with the collective oil endowment of whole nations. Indeed, most oil-producing nations have already seen their output enter terminal decline. Few informed observers doubt that the rate of oil production for the world in total will reach a maximum at some point and then slowly wane.The science of Peak Oil was worked out in the 1950s by veteran geophysicist M. King Hubbert, who successfully used his method to predict the U.S. peak (1970). Declassified CIA documents show that by the late 1970s the Agency was using similar methods to forecast the Soviet Union’s oil peak.1We do not know exactly when the global peak will occur, but it will almost certainly happen within the period between now and 2035.Considering the importance of the peaking event, the range of uncertainty regarding its timing is disturbing. If the peak were to occur within the next five years, our national economy would be unable to adjust quickly enough to avert calamity (as we will discuss below), while a peak 30 years from now would present a much greater opportunity for adaptation.Though there is continuing controversy over the question of when the peak will happen, there is strong evidence for concluding that it may come sooner rather than later, and that the world may already have entered the peaking period. Signs of a near-term peak include the fact that global rates of oil discovery have been falling since the early 1960s—as has been confirmed by ExxonMobil. Declining discovery rates represent a well-established trend and cannot be said to be the result merely of transient factors. In 2005, according to IHS Energy Inc., a total of 4.5 billion barrels of oil were discovered in new fields, while 30 billion barrels of oil were extracted and used worldwide. Thus, currently only about one barrel of oil is being discovered for every six extracted.2Until now, the global oil industry has been able to replace depleted reserves on a yearly basis, mostly by re-estimating the size of existing fields. The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences, in a recent publication, “Statements on Energy,” describes the situation this way:In the last 10–15 years, two-thirds of the increases in reserves of conventional oil have been based on increased estimates of recovery from existing fields and only one-third on discovery of new fields. In this way, a balance has been achieved between growth in reserves and production. This can’t continue. 50% of the present oil production comes from giant fields and very few such fields have been found in recent years.3 The 100 or so giant and super-giant fields that are collectively responsible for about half of current world production were all discovered in the 1940s, ’50s, ’60s, and ’70s and most are now going into decline. These days, exploration turns up only much smaller fields that deplete relatively quickly.Chris Skrebowski, editor of Petroleum Review and author of the study “Oil Field Megaprojects,” notes that “90% of known reserves are in production,” and that “as much as 70% of the world’s producing oil fields are now in decline” with decline rates averaging between four and six percent per year.4Thus, while the U.S. Department of Energy predicts that world oil production will increase over the next 20 years from 85 million barrels per day (Mb/d) to 120 Mb/d in order to meet anticipated demand, a growing chorus of petroleum geologists and other energy analysts warns that such levels of production will never be seen.A French report from the Economics, Industry & Finance Ministry, “The Oil Industry 2004,” took a careful look at future supply issues, forecasting a possible peak in world production as early as 2013.5Ford Motor Company Executive Vice President Mark Fields, in his keynote address in October, 2005 at the Society of Automotive Engineers’ “Global Leadership Conference at the Greenbrier,” noted the seven most serious challenges to his industry, one of which was that “oil production is peaking.”6 Volvo motor company has for several years acknowledged in its company literature that a global oil production peak is likely by 2015.7Legendary petroleum geologist T. Boone Pickens, who started his career in the early 1950s as a roughneck in oilfields in Oklahoma and Texas and went on to co-found Mesa Petroleum and Petroleum Exploration, told the 11th National Clean Cities conference in May, 2005 that “Global oil [production] is 84 million barrels [a day]. I don’t believe you can get it any more than 84 million barrels. . . . I think they are on decline in the biggest oil fields in the world today and I know what it’s like once you turn the corner and start declining, it’s a treadmill that you just can’t keep up with.”8Royal Dutch Shell Chief Executive Jeroen Van Der Veer has said, “My view is that ‘easy’ oil has probably passed its peak.”9J. Robinson West, founder and chairman of PFC Energy, one of Washington’s most influential international energy consulting firms, and a former Assistant Secretary of the Interior in the Reagan Administration, predicts that the “tipping point” when global supply of oil ceases to grow could arrive in 2015.10Veteran petroleum geologist Henry Groppe, a Houston-based independent analyst who began his career in 1945 and who is today a consultant to global corporations as well as to nations, said in 2005 that “Total crude oil production may have peaked this year, or perhaps will peak next year.”11Matthew Simmons, founder of Simmons & Company International energy investment bank, has been perhaps the most outspoken of oil analysts and investors regarding Peak Oil. A consultant to the Cheney Energy Policy Development Group that met in secret in 2001, he is the author if Twilight in the Desert: The Coming Saudi Oil Shock and the World Economy (Wiley, 2005). Simmons has concluded, on the basis of his study of technical papers from the Society of Petroleum Engineers, that Saudi Arabian oil production is close to its maximum, and that world oil production is also therefore close to its peak.On March 1, 2006 The New York Times published an editorial by Robert Semple, Associate Editor of the Editorial Page for the Times since 1998, in which he wrote, “The concept of peak oil has not been widely written about. But people are talking about it now. It deserves a careful look—largely because it is almost certainly correct.”12In short, the science behind Peak Oil is well established, and, while there is some disagreement about exactly when the global peak will arrive, there can be no excuse at this stage for ignoring the problem.In ChristJeff
bro JeffI see it as you have said here. We believers hope that our nation would want the same things we want. Yet we ourselves desire the same things the world loves. We believers are cast to and fro by the winds of Satan. There is a strong dilution of the power of the truth that the word of God provides for those who say the word is good yet they deny it by giving into the pull of this world.this is indeed true, we believers can be and often are no different from the heathen and unless we ourselves get with the program, then we will have no witness and the heathen will remain that. Lord help us!AMEN.
Bro. Jeff posted;"I have also begun reading a book by Kevin Phillips, a republican strategists from the Nixon era... this book has just appeared on the book stands. The name is "American Theocracy." The book is divided into three sections. The first discusses the oil industry. The second discusses the evangelical impact on those who lead our country. And the third discusses our debt. So i will be posting some of his observations here on this thread."Wow bro. Jeff ... i posted over on;The Icy Wind of Poverty Blowing in the Air ...https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=9924&forum=35&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0... regarding this book "American Theocracy" and had all intentions of posting about it on this thread too but never got around to it ... i figured you'd be interested in it, and lo and behold you have it (you know how i think: our Lord wanted you to read it) ...Anyhow the following is lifted from "Icy Wind ...", ... QUOTE:The following is a very interesting, historically acurate, tho far from flattering interview/book regarding the so called evangelical/fundamentalist christian influence on the Republican party via the onset of Jerry Falwell's Moral Majority http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_Majority, which i was a member of, and it's influence in the White House during the Reagan years, and now most in particular with it's impact on the presidency of GWB, written by Fmr. GOP Strategist Kevin Phillips (once a Republican but know an Independent because of as he says "the evangelical/fundementalist hijaking of the GOP") in his latest and most intriguing book ...American Theocracy: The Peril and Politics of Radical Religion, Oil, and Borrowed Money in the 21st Century -http://ia310136.us.archive.org/1/items/dn2006-0321/dn2006-0321-1_64kb.mp3(INTERVIEW IS AT MIDDLE OF .MP3 BAR, SO SLIDE IT OVER)Also a less informative interview here on NPR, but a most informative excerpt from his book - Chapter 4: Radicalized Religion -A Political Warning Shot: 'American Theocracy'http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5290373And the book itself (with over 50 reviews) here on -AMAZON -http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/067003486X/qid=1143498602/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-6302070-9143217?s=books&v=glance&n=283155This author reflects the consternation of many in America who see this evangelical/fundementalist influence in Washington on the same dangerous level as those they term the "apocalypse obsessed" in both Judaism and Islam ... Check out the question regarding this Pres. Bush was asked in a recent news conference ...Interesting times we're living in, and it just keeps getting more interesting with each passing day-----------------i'll be looking forward to what you post from this book!Blessings in Christ!Bro R
Brother Rahman,I listened to the interviews...one of which mentions the newspaper...The New Era, Lancaster Pa..That is the paper that I have started subscribing to because we are moving to that area of the country in June...I have finished the first section of the book which covers the oil industry...I never really understood the profound impact that oil has for this nation...I can see how the mark of the beast is sown into the fabric of much of what this world hopes in...To be continued...In ChristJeff
Bro. Jeff you wrote;"I have finished the first section of the book which covers the oil industry...I never really understood the profound impact that oil has for this nation...I can see how the mark of the beast is sown into the fabric of much of what this world hopes in..."Aaaaaa-men, you, me and most other Americans don't understand ... Makes you wonder why our Lord has picked some of us out to understand, well at least it makes me wonder ... i've actually asked Him out loud on a number of occasions over the years, "Lord, why are you causing me to know theses things"? ... i've found that such knowledge doesn't seem to move most, but it certainly has moved me ... Lately i've been having the most uneasiest of feelings in the pit of my stomach, can't shake it, i think because the brevity and depth of what our Lord has caused me to know over the years is finally mentally gelling into the real ugliness of the situations this old world now faces, particularly America (the land of which i have to admit i love) ... i don't have any fear for myself, or my loved ones, in that i sense a real peace with our Lord in submission and surrender to what i believe He's shown me to do ... That's why any saint that i get a chance to talk to i keep stressing how important it is to be "clear before or God" ... By that i mean being really, really, concerned about our "obedience" before Him ... Who i do have fear for is my fellow saints, and my fellow man ...What will be their reactions to a sudden and devestating reality that things are not as they seemed, or was wished to be, and especially for those who cling to the prosperity message ... You ended;"To be continued..."Amen again, and i look forward to that continuation and the questions and accomanying scriptures Holy Spirit will ask/supply thru you ... Stay strong in our Lord Jesus bro. Jeff, and in the power of His might!Bro. R
Thankyou for your encouragement Brother Rahman...This morning I heard on the news something I don't understand...pretaining to the oil industry...Gasoline is approaching 3 dollars a gallon here, yet there is no new calamity...What I heard on the news is that Wall Street is bidding up the price of oil. This bidding process is looked at as additional costs for each barrel of oil. For each 60 dollar barrel of oil, 20 dollars of that is due to speculation on the oil markets. So who is getting that 20 dollars per barrel? How many poor people are suffering in cold houses because of this speculation? James 5:1 Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you! 2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten. 3 Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days. 4 Indeed the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the reapers have reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth. 5 You have lived on the earth in pleasure and luxury; you have fattened your hearts as in a day of slaughter. 6 You have condemned, you have murdered the just; he does not resist you. Where are the princes leading us?In ChristJeff
MarketWatch Gold futures tap $600 an ounce; silver tops $12Thursday April 6, 10:30 am ET By Myra P. Saefong Metals rally to fresh multiyear highs; copper at a record SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Gold futures tapped $600 an ounce Thursday morning for the first time since January 1981, pulling other metals to multiyear pinnacles and delivering copper to a new all-time high."Gold is exploding, and silver isn't far behind," said Kevin Kerr, trader and editor of Global Resources Trader, a newsletter service by MarketWatch, the publisher of this report.Gold for June delivery rose to $600 an ounce in regular trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange, having hit a high of $601.90 overnight. The contract was last traded at $597, up $5.30.May silver also traded at a new 22-year high of $12.01 an ounce, after peaking at $12.08 overnight. The contract was last up 22.5 cents at $11.93."Key resistance was broken overnight and, as we have been building support and healthy consolidation over the last week or so, now we have a firm base to move higher," said Kerr, who noted that Thursday's early rally has come without any real news to drive it.But Jon Nadler, an investment products analyst at bullion dealers Kitco.com said he thinks it is "reasonable to conclude that [Secretary of State Condoleezza] Rice's call for sanctions on Iran and the car bombing in Iraq are weighing on trader's minds."Analysts at Action Economics said metals are finding strong support from continued buying by funds, seeking out asset classes with a potential for strong returns."The latest bout of [U.S. dollar] weakness has been a factor, though the euro price of gold also rallied today," the Action Economics analysts said.Now that gold has hit the psychologically key $600-an-ounce level, some nearer-horizon funds may take the opportunity to lock in profits, they said."Going forward, inflationary concerns will only gain steam, the U.S. dollar will continue its downward decline and geopolitical tensions will continue to draw safe-haven buying from around the globe," said Emanuel Balarie, senior market strategist at Wisdom Financial.Matt. 24:32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! These things like the price of gold and oil are warnings of something much more important than what most see. I am not predicting anything... I am only pointing to how we as believers should look at this world. There are underlying problems with what the world places their faith in. In this case, the world of paper money...In ChristJeff
Libby court papers: Cheney said Bush OK'd intelligence leakWASHINGTON (AP) -- Vice President Dick Cheney's former top aide told prosecutors that his boss said President Bush authorized the leak of sensitive intelligence information about Iraq, according to court papers filed by prosecutors in the CIA leak case.Before his indictment, I. Lewis Libby testified to the grand jury investigating the CIA leak that Cheney told him to pass on information and that it was Bush who authorized the disclosure, the court papers say. According to the documents, the authorization led to the July 8, 2003, conversation between Libby and New York Times reporter Judith Miller.There was no indication in the filing that either Bush or Cheney authorized Libby to disclose Valerie Plame's CIA identity.But the disclosure in documents filed Wednesday means that the president and the vice president put Libby in play as a secret provider of information to reporters about prewar intelligence on Iraq.The authorization came as the Bush administration faced mounting criticism about its failure to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, the main reason the president and his aides had given for going to war.Libby's participation in a critical conversation with Miller on July 8, 2003 "occurred only after the vice president advised defendant that the president specifically had authorized defendant to disclose certain information in the National Intelligence Estimate," the papers by Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald stated. The filing did not specify the "certain information.""Defendant testified that the circumstances of his conversation with reporter Miller -- getting approval from the president through the vice president to discuss material that would be classified but for that approval -- were unique in his recollection," the papers added.Libby is asking for voluminous amounts of classified information from the government in order to defend himself against five counts of perjury, obstruction and lying to the FBI in the Plame affair.He is accused of making false statements about how he learned of Plame's CIA employment and what he told reporters about it.Her CIA status was publicly disclosed eight days after her husband, former U.S. Ambassador Joseph Wilson, accused the Bush administration of twisting prewar intelligence to exaggerate the Iraqi threat from weapons of mass destruction.In 2002, Wilson had been dispatched to Africa by the CIA to check out intelligence that Iraq had an agreement to acquire uranium yellowcake from Niger, and Wilson had concluded that there was no such arrangement.Libby says he needs extensive classified files from the government to demonstrate that Plame's CIA connection was a peripheral matter that he never focused on, and that the role of Wilson's wife was a small piece in a building public controversy over the failure to find WMD in Iraq.Fitzgerald said in the new court filing that Libby's requests for information go too far and the prosecutor cited Libby's own statements to investigators in an attempt to limit the amount of information the government must turn over to Cheney's former chief of staff for his criminal defense.According to Miller's grand jury testimony, Libby told her about Plame's CIA status in the July 8, 2003 conversation that took place shortly after the White House aide -- according to the new court filing -- was authorized by Bush through Cheney to disclose sensitive intelligence about Iraq and WMD contained in a National Intelligence Estimate.(end of article)Why was is so important that the leaders of this nation would engage in these activities? In ChristJeff
Kevin Phillips, American Theocracy, The Peril of Politics of Radical Religion, Oil, and Borrowed Money in the 21st Century.The first two chapters cover the history of oil in the world and then in the United States. Phillips develops the thought of how oil permeates our culture from the gas guzzling SUVs and Nascar race fans to mom and pop back yard oil dericks dispersed through half of the states in the nation. Then he begins to draw a picture of the significance of oil and how it drives the decisions we make now and those of the near future...Page 70The Hundred Years Oil WarThe idea of a latter-day Hundred Years War does not sit easily in the contemporary mind. We think of our technology-fed world as too fast, too intense, to permit such a long engagement. The only hundred-years war generally recognized in Western history was the one fought in western France between 1337 and 1453. Over that long century, the French generally squeezed out the English, whose rulers also claimed to be kings of France. The English general defeated in 1453, John Talbot, earl of Shrewsbury, was a famous knight whose name lives on in that of an estimable Bordeaux wine. Medieval warfare centers such as chateaux Castelnaud and Beynac on the Dordogne add to the lure of vineyards and Michelin stars. Enjoyable travel routes and tours help bring pleasure and history together.Perhaps one day visitors will drive up the Tigris River to tour sites and battlefields of the Hundred Years Oil War that has devastated Iraq and Iran. More pretentious, freedom-related explanations will seem irrelevant. For now, though, it is hard to imagine travel posters for Fallujah, Nasiriya, Mosul, or the steamy Shatt el-Arab, the estuary of the combined Tigris and Euphrates near Kuwait. But the hundred-year duration is clear enough, the subject matter was indeed oil, and English speakers-British, American, Australians, New Zealanders- were invariably among the arms bearers. Americans wound up as the leaders, but the epic began in 1897, when a nervous sheikh asked the British to assume a protectorate over Kuwait, then a minor outpost of Turkish Mesopotamia. With oil widely reported in the Tigris-Euphrates Valley, Germany had begun the Berlin-Baghdad Railway, hoping to negotiate for Kuwait as its Persian Gulf terminus. The British took it first. By 1914, the Germans had negotiated oil rights as far as Mosul, as Britain had for Kuwait, which at that time had less promise. When war broke out, Turkish Mesopotamia quickly became a battleground, and British units slowly moved upriver from Basra. They fought through Naisriya and Kut, losing badly at first but eventually overcoming German-led Turkish troops. Luckily for the British War Office, the first local German commander, Field Marshal Colmar von der Goltz, a crack strategist who beat them at Ctesiphon and Kut, died of typhus in 1916. to be continuedIn ChristJeff
Bro Jeff you wrote;"These things like the price of gold and oil are warnings of something much more important than what most see. I am not predicting anything... I am only pointing to how we as believers should look at this world. There are underlying problems with what the world places their faith in. In this case, the world of paper money..."Amen ... i first became interested in gold as an investment around the beginning of 2000, mainly because everything i believe our Lord was sending my way to read about the economic upheaval said "buy gold" ... It was between $250. to $300. an once then ... Historical Charts of Gold Prices:http://www.kitco.com/scripts/hist_charts/yearly_graphs.cgi... and anyone whom i told to invest in gold either said, "It's to volatile" (which past charts do show), or gold is only something one buys as a hedge against a depression ... Now everyone who invested in gold then has double their investment ...i've been trying to find a .mp3 of the financial guy that i listen to online where it was said that our Fed/Gov't would attempt soon to drive down the price of gold because its buying, particularly by the super rich, is a sure indication of fear of the loss of value in fiat currency (say like our dollar - which SafeWealth in Switzerland has just sent out an emergency notice to anyone tied to the currency markets in dollars may soon recieve word from them to shift over into euros because of the dollars continuous fall) ... This guy says that if our Fed/Gov't can pull this off that gold will take one more precipitous drop in value driving many smaller holders of the precious metal to sell ... He points out that this would be a good opportunity to buy additional gold (most small investors buy coins and sock them away safely at home somewhere) for by the next rise in gold prices, due to just flat out dollar failure via hyper-inflation (over printing of dollars), and a subsequent depression, an ounce of gold will sky-rocket to $1000. to $1,200. an once ...i'm not predicting here either brother, just sharing some info that i heard about gold ... But if in fact in the short term future gold does in fact take another precipitous drop to say between $250. and $300. an once again, i'll be scooping up as many Krugerands, etc. as i have accumulated paper currency to do so ... i might even (after praying about it) cash in my 401K and take the tax/penalty hit if i feel led of our Lord to do so ... The only problem with buying large sums of physical gold is a safe place to store it, and a bank sure won't be safe ... i believe if it be our Lord's will, since i call all that i have His, He'll direct my path ...You talk about the world placing their faith in paper money, so do most saints!PRECIOUS METALS NEWS;http://www.financialsense.com/metals/main.htm
Bro. Jeff you also wrote'"Where are the princes leading us?"Seems all this escalating turmoil, with it's potential to put the world (particularly the nuclear nations) at each others throats a third time, could be leading to the uncovering of that man of perdition who'll have all the answers of appeasement and peace ... Last nite on History channel i watched a special they did on the anti-christ ... Even the world, in the midst of all this confusion is toying with "could we be in the time of his revealing"? ... Of course no one knows this but God, but His Word tells us that one day such a one will arise ...
Bro Jeff,i found the .mp3's on the Fed gold price manipulation ... You may find this interesting ... (2/4/06)- PEAK OIL (first interview)- FED GOLD PRICE MANIPULATION & WHYOther Voices: G. Michael Bolser, The Golden Sextant;http://www.netcastdaily.com/broadcast/fsn2006-0204-3.mp3(last eighth of .mp3 slide bar)(2/11/06)Gold Market Review: Past, Present & Future;http://www.netcastdaily.com/broadcast/fsn2006-0211-3.mp3(first third of .mp3 slide bar)Lots of desperate manipulation going on behind the closed doors of our government and it's agencies ...
Brother Rahman, Thankyou, I'll check these sites out.God BlessJeff
Kevin Phillips, American Theocracy, The Peril of Politics of Radical Religion, Oil, and Borrowed Money in the 21st Century.page 71...Realizing the future stakes, British and French diplomats made a secret arrangement in 1916, the Sykes-Picot Agreement mentioned earlier, for a postwar split of oil-rich Mesopotamia: the Mosul region to be under France, the rest under Britain. However, deciding that they needed Mosul, too, British troops kept fighting after the November 1918 armistice, captured the city in December, and installed themselves. Other satisfactions were provided for the French, notably accepting that they might occupy portions of defeated Germany.In 1922 Turkey sought to take back Mosul from Britain but failed. Lord Curzon, foreign secretary, famously insisted that the influence of oil on British policy was “nil.” “Oil,” he said, “had not the remotest connection with my attitude, nor with that of his majesty’s Government, over Mosul.” Mocked in Parliament and the press, Curzon ultimately took to the pages of The Times in 1924 to plead his case, but most historians have scoffed at his claim. There is something about oil that makes high officials lie. Despite several promises of self-determination to the Arabs, a 1920 rebellion in Iraq caused the British to tighten control through a surprising and unprecedented instrument: the fledgling Royal Air Force. According to Stephen Pellertiere, professor at the U.S. Army War College, “this was the first known use of airpower as a constabulary…In time, the British expanded the use of the RAF, sending it on all sorts of assignments. For example, it would bomb the tribes to soften them up for visits from the tax collector.” Controversy persisted, but so did the RAF. Iraqis, in turn, repeatedly rose. One Iraqi historian recorded thirty significant violent outbreaks of some sort between 1919 and 1958, when the British finally left Iraq. to be continued...I never knew the recent history of this area of the world. The thought we hear often repeated but fail to realize is "history repeats itself." Eccl. 1:9 \tThat which has been is what will be,\tThat which is done is what will be done,\tAnd there is nothing new under the sun. Our nation is suffering as the British did. Our suffering finds its root in the love of money. If our nation suffers, think about those who we have sought to steal from. In ChristJeff
Bro Jeff you wrote;"I never knew the recent history of this area of the world. The thought we hear often repeated but fail to realize is "history repeats itself."This book below blows the covers off Britains and Americas history of meddling in Iran and why we are where we are today in that particular country ...All the Shah's Men: An American Coup and the Roots of Middle East Terror,http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0471265179/102-3547591-0844107?_encoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155In my readings on the history of european colonization of other lands none strike me as the major cause of so much turmoil in our modern world as the exploits of the British empire ... They were the ones that dissected the region and made Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Kuwait, all around oil flowing to their benefit ... The above book shows how Britain as a waning empire lost the oil fields of Iran in the early 50's to democratically elected leader Mohammed Mossadegh ... It tells of how the Brit's attempted to lobby Pres. Truman to their aid in keeping the oil rights, but Truman wouldn't bite ... The Brits attempted again with Pres. Eisenhower, convincing him that Mossadegh was in bed with Communism, and due to that red scare Eisenhower via the CIA overthrew Mossadegh and the Shah was set in power ... You know when i was a young man during the Civil Rights era we had Black Panthers and Black Muslims preaching in our neighborhoods that the white man was the blue eyed devil ... It was reasoned that if the world was in the power of the wicked one (the devil), then the man that the devil would give most of his power to had to be the one most like him ... In my b.c. days i used to think that made sense at one time until in my research for The Called Gen.9:[27] jumped out at me, "God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant." ... Japheth is the father of europeans, the so called "white man" ... Shem the father of Jews and Arabs and Orientals ... Ham the father of Africans ... i could be wrong but i think the reason why it seems to the sons of Shem, and particularly to the sons of Ham, that the sons of Japheth have everything stems from this prophecy of Noah ... Japheth surely has been enlarged to the point of manipulating, if not ruling the world ...Now a very interesting point concerning the Iranians, they are not descendants of Shem and therefore are not Semites ... The Iranians are Persian, Aryan, and thru Madai are descendants of Japheth ... You continued;"Our nation is suffering as the British did. Our suffering finds its root in the love of money. If our nation suffers, think about those who we have sought to steal from."Amen ... history is repleat with the sufferings caused by world powers on those whom they've exploited ... The larger the world power, the more pervasive and massive it's scope of destruction ... Nobody throws a war like the descendants of Japheth, for when world leaders of european descent throw a war it involves the entire world ...The more and more the revealing of todays world events, and the history behind them, the more and more it points out to me that our God is in total control ... That's the only soothing balm to me that wards off the fear that engulfs so many ... Britain then, and America now, as well as every other past empire has served God's plan for the ages ... Blessed be the name of the Lord!
Brother Rahman,I just ordered the book. Thankyou for your guidance in our walk. I have a question concerning your experience of the Black Panther and Black Muslim era. Was cocaine and heroine prevalent in those days? God BlessJeff
Kevin Phillips, American Theocracy, The Peril of Politics of Radical Religion, Oil, and Borrowed Money in the 21st Century.page 72 continued...Nineteen forty-one brought a new menace into the oil wars. In pursuit of both petroleum supplies and Middle East hegemony. German troops moved into Egypt and threatened Cairo. Berlin simultaneously pressured the collaborationist Vichy French regime in Syria to help seize control of next-door Iraq. For a month or so in May 1941, German and Italian aircraft- Heinkel bombers, Messerschmitts, and Savoia-Marchettis- pounded the British airfield at Habbaniya, sixty miles from the capital , in support of a pro-German Iraqi faction that had prosecuted a successful coup of Baghdad. Fierce fighting also raged around Fallujah, a scene revisited sixty-two years later. However, the pro-German Rashid Ali clique soon fled to Persia as British relief columns advanced from Palestine and once more, upriver from Basra.The Iraqi campaigns of two world wars are reasonably well documented in Britain (and have been the backdrop for some fascinating novels). So is the long history of British regional pursuit of oil. Likewise well understood is the British government’s usual preoccupation with oil and geopolitics, not democracy, although few Americans recall either set of precedents. This may help to explain why Prime Minister Blair’s pretenses that oil was not involved in 2003 were dismissed by the British press while the U.S. media generally spared George W. Bush’s assurances. The first half century set the patterns; first, oil has always been a central motive of Western attempts—German, British, Russian, American—to invade Iraq or Iran or overthrow a local government; second, oil geography has made the Persian Gulf and Tigris-Euphrates Valley into one of the region’s great military corridors. Arguments for an oil-premised Hundred Years Oil War have been made by James A. Paul of the UN-based Global Policy Forum, by Swiss journalist William Engdahl in A Century of War, and less categorically by Stephen Pelletiere in his political chronicle Iraq and the International Oil System. The span seems compelling, but it inconveniently undercuts most of the Anglo-American pretenses raised in 2002 and 2003.to be continued...In ChristJeff
Bro. Jeff you wrote;"I just ordered the book. Thank you for your guidance in our walk."Man, you're on a mission! :-P ... And i appreciate it, but "thank Him" as brother Ironman says "for the beauty of fellowship" ... It's in sharings like these that it really comes home that we can't say that we have no use of one another ... God is teaching us mightily via the sharing on this forum ...Bro. Jeff you asked;"I have a question concerning your experience of the Black Panther and Black Muslim era. Was cocaine and heroine prevalent in those days?"My encounters with both groups began around 1970, and "no" to my rememberance neither "cocaine" nor "heroine" was prevalent ... Both drugs were pretty much used by hard core drug users ... Heroine was pretty much an alledged "hip" drug amongst the artistic, jazz musicians especially such as Miles Davis, Chet Baker, Charlie Parker and the like, but was by most casual drug users back then not used ... Even today heroine is not a really casual drug, needles have a way of turning most folks off ... And as for cocaine, it did not become prevalent in use until the Studio 54, disco era, and then thru-out the go-go 80's ... Marijuana was mostly the drug of choice in the Black Community during the 60's and 70's (in fact it's effect chilled out turf warfare amongst neighborhood gangs during this time), but due to the more free mixing of cultures (black and white) during that era "speed (methamphetamines), prescription uppers (diet-pills) and downers (ludes, valium, etc) also became popular amongst inner city Blacks ... Cocaine on the other hand pretty much stayed an 'elitist" drug until the advent of free-basing and then it just devestated inner city Black Communities when the devil introduced it as "rock" or "crack" ...A side note to drug use in the inner city is this ... i was born in 1950, into a thriving, relatively socially healthy, mostly God fearing church attending African American neighborhood of two parent families, with neighbors who looked out for one another, and we children ... These inner city communities were primarily supported by factory jobs right within the community were fathers wspecially, and sometimes mothers worked, as well as up and coming young folk ... The moving of these factories/jobs from the inner cities to the south in order to escape escalating financial union requirements is closely associated to the increase of drug use in the inner cities over time, and particularly amongst African Americans ... When i think back on it it was horrifyingly amazing to me how quick the demise of my African American neighborhood between 1950 and 1970, but what was really more devestating was the change in the people ... Prior the Civil Rights Movement was based out of the Black Church, was non-violent, and was based on the belief that our faith in God would see us thru ... By the 70's Black Muslims and the Panther Party even tho they may not have gotten many younger Blacks into their roles, they did affect our way of thinking ... All of a sudden praying, waiting on God, and turning the other cheek just wasn't gettin it, and was turned into "Black Power", "fight the power" and "by any means neccessary" ... An eye for an eye became the norm, and the down-trodden forgot that you can't fight city hall and win, and you sure can't "stick-up" the industrialist and get away with it ... One of the really cool things about becoming an "old saint" :-D is that God gives us the ability to look back and see our own life time segment of the world passing away (and how), it's doing so on multiple levels at all times, and it's on those levels that we don't see that seems to project us forward at this ever increasing, dizzying pace ... It's just amazing to me how each and every level still cannot escape being of purpose to the working out of God's eternal plan ...
Brother Rahman wrote:By the 70's Black Muslims and the Panther Party even tho they may not have gotten many younger Blacks into their roles, they did affect our way of thinking ... All of a sudden praying, waiting on God, and turning the other cheek just wasn't gettin it, and was turned into "Black Power", "fight the power" and "by any means neccessary" ... An eye for an eye became the norm, and the down-trodden forgot that you can't fight city hall and win, and you sure can't "stick-up" the industrialist and get away with it ... I have read some things which point to the Black Power movement in the past. I have often thought that the government, one agency or another, was responsible for introducing drugs into the "black power movement." History tells us that governments in the past have co-opted movements or impediments to their pursuits by introducing drugs into people groups. The powers that be introduced alchohol into the Indian tribes of the U.S. The British poured opium into the villiages of China. Why not cocaine into the radical black power movement?Just some thoughts...In ChristJeff
Kevin Phillips, American Theocracy, The Peril of Politics of Radical Religion, Oil, and Borrowed Money in the 21st Century.page 73Washington practitioners of realpolitik posit a shorter, American centered Thirty Years War, starting in 1973, when James Schlesinger, secretary of defense in the Nixon administration, contacted senior British officials about joining the United States in a joint airborne attack to seize the oil fields in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Abu Dhabi. The immediate source of American frustration was the 1973-1974 Israel-Arab war and the related Arab and OPEC embargo on oil shipments to the United States and the Netherlands. The British were cool to the possible 1973 attack, but then secretary of state Henry Kissinger returned to the same theme two years later in an article written under a nom de plume for Harper’s Magazine. In 2002, as the United States prepared for war, James Atkins, the U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia from 1973 to 1975, recalled how the Harper’s article laid out a case for the United States’ solving its oil problem by seizing Saudi oil fields and installations. He alleged that Kissinger had also promoted the idea to journalists in a deep-background briefing. Of the war about to start in 2003, Atkins said, “It’s the Kissinger plan. I thought it had been killed, but it’s back.” In either British or American chronology, it is impossible to fully separate Iraq from Kuwait (which was carved out of Iraq) or Iran, which shares an eight-hundred-mile border with Iraq. After World War II, when Washington gained precedence within the Western alliance, the American CIA, not British Intelligence, stage-managed the 1953 overthrow of elected Iranian prime minister Mohamed Mossadegh. His principle transgression had been to nationalize the British-owned Anglo-Iranian Oil Company, although Washington also feared Soviet influences. Under the restored Shah, Reza Pahlevi, Iran then became a client state principally of the United States. Anglo-Iranian Oil, although readmitted at the head of a new consortium, was obliged to yield a 40 percent share to U.S. oil firms. Recently it has come to light that U.S. intelligence also planned a coup in 1959 against Iraqi prime minister Abdul Qarim Qasim, like Mossadegh a nationalist. The effort, which came to nought, allegedly included hiring a twenty two year old named Sadam Hussein. By the 1960s the strategic importance of the entire Persian Gulf to the United States had been defined and upheld by a series of presidents beginning with Franklin D. Roosevelt. The underpinning for each expression of White House concern was just what had motivated Whitehall; oil. to be continued...In ChristJeff
Bro. Jeff you wrote;"I have read some things which point to the Black Power movement in the past. I have often thought that the government, one agency or another, was responsible for introducing drugs into the "black power movement."History tells us that governments in the past have co-opted movements or impediments to their pursuits by introducing drugs into people groups."Our government is responsible for a lot of things that in the past no one would have ever believed that they did ... Somehow it was once thought by the American people that dastardly covert deeds were done only by other governments, totalitarian, Communist, Natzi and the like, but not so any more ... There was a time when whistle-blowers came out with exposes on our government, and it's agencies, it was far easier for them to paint them as crack-pots and conspiracy theorist, but not so anymore ...Bottom line is newly revealed historical data on Britain and the US really paint as hypocritical both peoples and governments as a collective, especially in light of sporting a Christian nation moniker ... Many Civil Rights activist both then and now not only point to our government pouring drugs into the radical black power movement, but into poor urban neighborhoods period ... i don't spend a whole lot of time wondering about whether our CIA of FBI did so or not, but i also don't put anything past our government in attempts to keeping our ship of State from being rocked to the point of the greaters society's dis-content ... Ours is not a battle against flesh and blood, but against powers, principalities, and spiritual wickedness ... This is how i've come to view all events in our world, this giant cosmic chess game going on between the Lord of light and the lord of darkness ... One of the things that i love about true history revealed is that we can get some indication of past moves, why they were made, and if our Lord deems it His good pleasure to telegraph via His gift of discernment the next move(s) ... One of the reasons i continue to call unto Him is because i know He knows everything, and i ain't never really been one to believe that ignorance is bliss ... God knows i want to know! ... Blessings bro!
Kevin Phillips, American Theocracy, The Peril of Politics of Radical Religion, Oil, and Borrowed Money in the 21st Century.page 73-74The events since 1973 are reasonably well known. In 1979 Iranian radicals overthrew the Shah, taking fifty-three American embassy employees hostage. President Carter’s helicopter rescue mission to get them back failed, but they were released on the day in 1981 when Ronald Reagan was inaugurated. Between 1980 and 1988, as Iraq and Iran fought a war over boundary issues with a subtext of oil geography, the United States, Britain, and several other nations were selling arms to both sides. At the same time, Washington and London cooperated in clandestine arrangements to provide Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein with dual-use materials that facilitated Iraq’s pursuit of chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons. William Safire, the New York Times columnist and former Republican White House aide, labeled the behavior of the United States, Britain, and Italy as “Iraqgate” and refused to support George W. Bush for reelection in 1992 because of his backstairs involvement in it. to be continued...Have you ever contemplated that the U.S. and Britain supplied arms to both sides of the conflict, and gave Saddam Hussein the WMDs to destroy Iran. Is this of God or Satan?In ChristJeff
Bro Jeff you wrote;"Is this of God or Satan?"i think they're all satanic moves that inevitably work toward the good outcome of His divine plan ...
, Kevin Phillips, American Theocracy, The Peril of Politics of Radical Religion, Oil, and Borrowed Money in the 21st Century.page 74In retrospect, the two Iraq wars of 1991 and 2003 displayed striking parallels. Both Iraqgate and the 2002-2003 imbroglio over alleged weapons of mass destruction produced lackluster investigations in Washington (by congressional bodies) and London (by law lords). Both invasions were lubricated by deceits—in the first instance regarding the Iraqi armored threat to Saudi Arabia and the fabrication that Iraqi invaders had ripped three hundred premature Kuwaiti babies from hospital incubators; in the second involving the unsustainable charges that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. Former CIA desk officer Pelletiere minces few words on this, saying that the behavior of the Americans and British in the run-ups to both wars bore a disturbing similarity to “the Big Lie” used by the Germans in launching World War II. At the very least both governments have been deceitful toward “their respective publics—they are manipulative towards them, to an extreme degree.” Unfortunately, as we can see, this behavior goes back nearly a century. While both governments had talked of Arab freedom and self-determination, the reality has more often involved a chorus of “Onward Christian Soldiers”—or “Onward, Oil Producers”—with a persistent allegro of punitive aerial bombing. Perhaps the last word should go to the late scholar Edward Said: “Every single empire, in its official discourse, has said that it is not like all the others, that its circumstances are special, that it has a mission to enlighten, civilize, bring order and democracy, and that it uses force only as a last resort.” to be continued...In ChristJeff
Brother Rahman wrote:i think they're all satanic moves that inevitably work toward the good outcome of His divine plan ...What I have learned in Scripture concerning this area of life is that God always seeks to teach us this...Psalm 118:8 \tIt is better to trust in the LORD\tThan to put confidence in man. 9 \tIt is better to trust in the LORD\tThan to put confidence in princes. In ChristJeff
So far I have covered a brief history of the turmoil that has gone on for a long time in the Middle East concerning oil.In this next section I will be posting thoughts from the following book which speaks of the beginning of the American impact on Middle East nations. All The Shah’s Men, An American Coup and the Roots of Middle East TerrorBy Stephen KinzerThis book covers the overthrow of a democratically ellected man named Mohammad Mossadegh. He was elected president of Iran in 1951. Here is a short picture of how the world initially viewed this event..Preface.."In his time, Mohammad Mossadegh was a titanic figure. He shook an empire and changed the world. People everywhere knew his name. World leaders sought to influence him and later to depose him. No one was surprised when Time magazine chose him over Harry Truman, Dwight Eisenhower, and Winston Chruchhill as its Man of the Year for 1951."Page 2In 1953 the United States was still new to Iran. Many Iranians thought of Americans as friends, supporters of the fragile democracy they had spent half a century trying to build. It was Britain, not the United States, that they demonized as the colonialist oppressor that exploited them. Since the early years of the twentieth century a British company, owned mainly by the British government, had enjoyed a fantastically lucrative monopoly on the production and sale of Iranian oil. The wealth that flowed from beneath Iran’s soil played a decisive role in maintaining Britain at the pinnacle of world power while most Iranians lived in poverty. Iranians chafed bitterly under this injustice. Finally, in 1951, they turned to Mossadegh, who more than any other political leader personified their anger at the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (AIOC). He pledged to throw the company out of Iran, reclaim the country’s vast petroleum reserves, and free Iran from subjection to foreign power. Prime Minster Mossadegh carried out his pledge with single-minded zeal. To the ecstatic cheers of his people, he nationalized Anglo-Iranian, the most profitable British business in the world. Soon afterward, Iranians took control of the company’s giant refinery at Abadan on the Persian Gulf.That sent Iran into patriotic ecstasy and made Mossadegh a national hero. It also outraged the British, who indignantly accused Mossadegh of stealing their property. They first demanded that the World Court and the United Nations punish him, then sent warships to the Persian Gulf, and finally imposed a crushing embargo that devastated Iran’s economy. Despite this campaign, many Iranians were thrilled with Mossadegh’s boldness. So were anticolonial leaders across Asia and Africa.Mossadegh was utterly unmoved by Britain’s campaign against him. One European newspaper reported that Mossadegh “would rather be fried in Persian oil than make the slightest concession to the British.” For a time the British considered launching an armed invasion to retake the oil fields and refinery, but they dropped the idea after President Harry Truman refused his support. Only two options remained: leave Mossadegh in power or organize a coup to depose him. Prime Minister Churchill, a proud product of the imperial tradition, had no trouble deciding for the coup. British agents began conspiring to overthrow Mossadegh soon after he nationalized the oil company. They were too eager and aggressive for their own good. Mossadegh learned of their plotting, and in October 1952 he ordered the British embassy shut. All British diplomats in Iran, including clandestine agents working under diplomatic cover, had to leave the country. No one was left to stage the coup. Immediately, the British asked President Truman for help. Truman, however, sympathized viscerally with nationalist movements like the one Mosaadegh led. He had nothing but contempt for old-style imperialists like those who ran Anglo-Iranian. Besides, the CIA had never overthrown a government, and Truman did not wish to set the precedent.to be continued...As you read this, consider the parrallels of recent events in the nation of Iraq. Would the United States allow someone like Mossadegh to become president of Iraq?In ChristJeff
bro Jeffit is amazing how the Lord works. Today i read this post earlier in the day and then later on a show came on the history channel with the above title. it briefly chronicled the history if iran from the roots of the persian empire under cyrus to the Shahs and the ayatollahs and how the American government steered things in that nation's history. it spoke of the iran iraq war also. all of this was in reference to the current nuclear issue and what should be done about it. at the end of it Gen. David Grange and another colonel who is retired were asked about the possibility of open war with iran. both agreed that a ground invasion would be foolish, it would require at least 350,000 troops which is over double the presence in iraq. also both men agreed that america's troops are already stretched thin for the size of the force. then one also has to consider that afghanistan borders iran on the east and that will surely invite fighters from there to come through. also iran is about 4 times the size of iraq in terms of area and has a larger population. 800,000 men in the armed forces and over 7 million others who are a legion (started by ayatollah khomeni during the iran iraq war days) of men who don't carry arms but charge the enemy in waves prepared to die for country. both men agreed it would be best to use airstrikes but that even so there would be almost no hope of winning favour with the iranians when the bombs get to dropping...these are a proud people who'd rather die than capitulate. it seems war is inevitable, by the end of the year we will be duking it out with iran also.i also caught a show on cnn called we were warned and it speaks of the looming oil crisis. it is set in 2009 and terror attacks on saudi oil fields and natural disasters here disrupt the flow of oil such that in california gas hits $8 a gallon. pres bush said we are addicted to oil yet very little has been done to date to rectify this, meanwhile brazil is on the verge of declaring energy independance. did you know that 40% of the fuel sold there is ethanol? whoa! we're waaaayy behind. now while this scenario is set in '09 i hear from heaven it will be much, much sooner and it will catch many by surprise. oil closed today at $71.95 a barrell, steve forbes thinks we'll be ok even if oil hits $80...well we'll know in a few months or even a few weeks...bro this economic catastrophe which i hear from heaven will be next year i've been shown now has an energy component to it. the rapid rise in energy cost will break the backs of the poor first, then the middle-class and this will slowly bring this all to a grinding halt. sadly most saints are unwilling or unable to see this coming.Lord help us!
Brother, These disparities use to bother me greatly. I was born of second generation immigrants from the Ukraine. My father was a coal miner, steel worker, and decorated veteran of WW II and the Korean Conflict. I was rasied to believe in the American dream....Yet, as I grew up I continued to see the dark side of things. I searched for the answers as to why those who govern us live for the pursuits of darkness. I struggled until the day the Lord's Scripture found in Romans 3 took root in my being. From that moment on I knew that there is no hope for this world. I knew from that moment, that to place hope in men, would always lead to disappointment and futility. I was free...So I labor as you to point out the pride that blinds and hardens the hearts of the believers. Many fear the result of being "called out from among them.:"Keep on Keepin on Bro...IN Christ Jeff
All The Shah’s Men, An American Coup and the Roots of Middle East TerrorBy Stephen Kinzerpage 4The American attitude toward a possible coup in Iran changed radically after Dwight Eisenhower was elected president in November 1952. Within days of the election, a senior agent of the Secret Intelligence Service, Christopher Montague Woodhouse, came to Washington for meetings with top CIA and State Department officials. Woodhouse shrewdly decided not to make the traditional British argument, which was that Mossadegh must go because he had nationalized British property. That argument did not rouse much passion in Washington. Woodhouse knew what would. “Not wishing to be accused of trying to use the Americans to pull British chestnuts out of the fire, “ he wrote later, “ I decided to emphasize the Communist threat to Iran rather than the need to recover control of the oil industry.”….Soon after President Eisenhower took office on January 20, 1953, John Foster Dulles and Allen Dulles told their British counterparts that they were ready to move against Mossadegh. Their coup would be code-named Operation Ajax, or, in CIA jargon, TPAJAX. To direct it, they chose a CIA officer with considerable experience in the Middle East, Kermit Roosevelt, a grandson of President Theodore Roosevelt.Page 5…Roosevelt spent his first two weeks in Tehran conducting business from a villa rented by one of his American agents. Decades of British intrigue in Iran, coupled with more recent work by the CIA, gave him excellent assets on the ground. Among them were a handful of experienced and highly resourceful Iranian operatives who had spent years assembling a clandestine network of sympathetic politicians, military officers, clergymen, newspaper editors, and street gang leaders. The CIA was paying these operatives tens of thousand of dollars per month, and they earned every cent. During the spring and summer of 1953, not a day passed without at least one CIA-subsidized mullah, news commentator, or politician denouncing Prime Minister Mossadegh. The prime minister, who had great respect for the sanctity of free press, refused to suppress this campaign.to be continued...Do you remember way back in THESE DAYS ARE EVIL 1, how the Nazi's developed a new social science called "Mind Science?" Well we will continue to see how the Americans began to apply this "Mind Science" which is now called Propaganda Warfare, against the democratically elected Prime Minister Mossadegh. As you read this historic account, seek to find evidence of the same tactics in use today. Whether it is Iraq, Iran, or Venezuela these tactics still continue. Nazi minister Gohlbels (SP) said something to this effect, "If you repeat the LIE often enough it becomes true." In ChristJeff
Here is a current event which parallels the trend that first began in Iran in 1951...the nationalization of the oil industry.Morales Nationalizes Natural Gas IndustryMonday May 1, 1:50 pm ET Bolivian President Nationalizes Country's Natural Gas Industry LA PAZ, Bolivia (AP) -- President Evo Morales nationalized Bolivia's natural gas industry and oil Monday, ordering foreign energy companies to send their supplies to a state company for sales and industrialization.Speaking at the San Alberto gas and oil field in the south of the country, Morales warned that companies that reject the decree will have to leave Bolivia within six months.The main oil companies operating in Bolivia are Brazil's Petrobras, the Spanish-Argentine company Repsol YPF, British companies British Gas and British Petroleum and Total of France."The time has come, the awaited day, a historic day in which Bolivia retakes absolute control of our natural resources," Morales said from the facility, which is operated by Petrobras in association with Repsol.After the president spoke, a soldier unfurled a Bolivian flag from atop the installation.Morales also said the state would retake control of Bolivian hydrocarbons companies that were privatized in the 1990s, with the state taking over shares in the hands of foreign companies and of semipublic Bolivian entities.He said all the companies must turn their production over to the state's Yacimientos Petroliferos Fiscales Bolivianos, which was privatized in 1996 and 1997.end of article...This growing threat of democracy in places like South America, Africa, and the Middle East, is creating a destablizisng effect on the world as we have known it in our generation. In ChristJeff
Bolivia takeover alarms powerful allies By Robert Plummer BBC News business reporter President Morales' decree has upset his neighbours in Brazil Anyone who seriously believed that Latin America's various left-leaning leaders all thought alike will have been puzzled by the fallout from Bolivia's nationalisation of its vast natural gas fields. For the most anguished reaction to President Evo Morales' move has come from a country that might have been considered one of his staunch natural allies - Brazil. Less than four months ago, in the run-up to Mr Morales' inauguration, he and Brazil's President Luis Inacio Lula da Silva were seen smiling for the cameras after discussing co-operation in the energy sector. Mr Morales came to Brasilia with a track record of activism as a former coca-growers' union leader, as well as a commitment to economic reforms that would benefit Bolivia's impoverished indigenous majority. But at the same time, he needed to reassure Brazilian investors - especially Brazil's state-owned oil and gas giant, Petrobras - that he would take a business-friendly approach. Petrobras, which has invested more than $1bn in Bolivia and controls 45% of its gas production, was duly placated. The company's boss, Jose Sergio Gabrielli, said he expected an excellent business climate under Mr Morales. Betrayal Now the mood in Brazil is one of betrayal and humiliation. Mr Gabrielli has described the decree as "unfriendly" and declared that Petrobras will review its activity in Bolivia. Lula promptly called an emergency cabinet meeting to examine the move. And an unnamed close adviser to Lula was quoted in the Brazilian press as saying that the government had been "caught with its pants down" over the military's seizure of facilities including Petrobras' refinery in the eastern city of Santa Cruz. Brazil is not alone in its dismay. The Spanish foreign ministry has expressed "deep concern" about the implications for Spanish energy group Repsol-YPF, which controls 25.7% of Bolivia's gas production. In all, about 20 foreign companies are affected, including BP, British Gas, ExxonMobil and Total. Punitive terms? Under the terms of the nationalisation, they are required to agree new contracts with the state-run firm, Yacimientos Petroliferos Fiscales Bolivianos (YPFB), within 180 days. In the meantime, Bolivia will keep up to 82% of their revenues, allowing them just the remaining 18%. Unsurprisingly, many of these firms are now wondering whether it is worth continuing to invest in Bolivia at all - and other foreign firms may also be deterred. If the move marks a clear break between Mr Morales and Lula, it also draws him closer to the more radical approach of President Hugo Chavez in Venezuela, where oil firms are being pressed to change their operations into joint ventures with the state firm PDVSA. Just days before the Bolivian decree was issued, Mr Morales and Mr Chavez visited Havana to sign a three-way trade pact with Cuban President Fidel Castro. Blessing or curse? Mr Morales announced the nationalisation as an end to what he called "the pillage of our natural resources by foreign companies". In this, he was reflecting the traditional view of Latin American economic nationalists that a country must retain control over its natural assets at all costs. That perception is particularly acute in Bolivia, where the indigenous majority feel that the economy is run for the benefit of a wealthy elite who have allowed foreigners to exploit their silver, tin, oil and gas reserves. The move is the latest chapter in the increasingly tortured saga of Bolivia's huge gas reserves - bigger than those of any other Latin American country except Venezuela. What should have been an economic blessing to one of the poorest nations in the region has, instead, turned into something of a curse. Plans to export the gas to the US and Mexico sparked fury among indigenous protesters and led to the downfall of President Gonzalo Sanchez de Lozada's government in 2003. Adding to their anger, the scheme would have involved shipping the gas via a Chilean port - an outlet that used to be part of Bolivian territory until Chile seized Bolivia's coastline in their 1879-83 war. With no pipeline to the Pacific Ocean in place, landlocked Bolivia has been selling gas to neighbouring Brazil and Argentina instead. This makes Brazil not only Bolivia's biggest investor, but also its biggest customer - and therefore a country that it might be unwise to alienate. end of article...According to Scripture, who owns the oil? In ChristJeff
Bolivia's Moves on Resources Worry Investors
MADRID, May 2 — A decision by President Evo Morales of Bolivia to place the nation’s oil and gas reserves under state control raised concerns among investors and European governments whose companies have substantial operations there.
While the move is unlikely to cause companies to significantly reduce operations in Bolivia, it is sure to lower their profits and to put any plans for future investment there in limbo, according to analysts. “New investments are likely off the table,” Bear Stearns said in a report issued today.
In announcing his decision on Monday, Mr. Morales said that foreign companies must leave the country unless they agree to negotiate new contracts with the government that would require that all oil and gas sales be funneled through Bolivia’s state owned oil company.
It is unclear what the exact terms of the new contracts will be, but they are expected to demand that a higher percentage of oil and gas revenues remain in Bolivia.
Analysts said that companies were likely to accept the conditions rather than pull out of the country, citing the hefty investments that energy companies like Repsol of Spain and Petrobras of Brazil have already made in the Bolivia.
“For companies to pull out would be precipitous,” said Dan O’Brien, an analyst with Economist Intelligence Unit who studies Spain. “Companies have costs invested in the country and they will be cautious to pull up the stakes and lose them.”
Citing Repsol as an example, Mr. O’Brien said the companies were likely to turn to their governments for diplomatic assistance. “Repsol has been and will be lobbying the governments to put pressure on Bolivia,” he said. Spain’s Prime Minister, José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero of the Socialist Party, has credibility with leftist Latin American leaders like Mr. Morales because of his liberal social policies, but it is far from certain that Mr. Morales will be responsive to the more conservative economic views advocated by the Spanish government, Mr. O’Brien said.
In comments to the Spanish television station TV3 on Tuesday, Spain’s minister of Industry, Tourism and Commerce, José Montilla, began the diplomatic offensive against the Bolivian government.
“We are very worried about this decision,” he said. “Obviously we are not happy about it, and I think that it is not good for Bolivia.”
Mr. Montilla said the move would undermine investor confidence in Bolivia and would discourage foreign investment in a country that desperately needs it. Bolivia, he said, “needs its natural resources to serve its national interests.”
“But it also needs foreign investment,” he added. Spain’s foreign ministry summoned the business attaché at the Bolivian embassy in Madrid today to demand an explanation of the Bolivian government’s decision.
In a subsequent statement, the ministry expressed “its deepest concerns about the measure,” and warned firmly that it could disrupt relations between the two countries, a rare diplomatic threat by the Zapatero government.
Bolivia’s announcement follows recent moves by Venezuela and other Latin American governments to resist foreign control of domestic industries. “In Latin America there does seem to be some cross-continental pattern of anti neo-liberal policies,” Mr. O’Brien of the Economist said.
But he added that what happens in Bolivia will not necessarily affect investments in the rest of the region. “Most of the major European and U.S. companies that invest there have a pretty sophisticated political analysis of the region,” he said. “I think companies would tend to look at the individual countries to see what the possibility is of a leftist government emerging.”
Robert S. Duncan, a spokesman for Repsol, said that the company had yet to receive any formal communications from the Bolivian government about the decision.
Repsol has invested over $1 billion in Bolivia since 1997, and its business plan for 2005 to 2009 called for new investments totaling about $850 million.
About 18 percent of the company’s total reserves are in Bolivia, but the country only accounted for about 1 percent of net profits, Duncan said.
Despite the firm stance announced Monday by Bolivia, some diplomats and analysts in Spain predicted that Mr. Morales would not strike an uncompromising tone in discussions with other governments or in negotiations with the foreign companies.
“He has expressed an openness to dialogue in the past,” said Enrique Iglesias, the director of the Secretariat General for Iberian America, a diplomatic forum in Madrid intended to promote relations between Latin America and the Iberian peninsula.
“Bolivia needs investment, and the market needs hydrocarbons,” he said. “There is room to negotiate.”
Other European energy companies were still evaluating the potential impact today. “We have received the Bolivian decree but there’s not much we can say as we are still studying it,” said Paul Floren, a spokesman for Paris-based Total. Total pumps 21,000 barrels each day from Bolivia to Brazil, mostly gas and some light oil, as part of a consortium with Petrobras of Brazil and Andina of Bolivia.
end of article...
What is happening now in Bolivia happened in Iran in 1951. Both Morales of today and Mossadegh of Iran in 1951 took back the ownership of the countries natural resources. Both men were elected by the democratic process. Mossadegh was overthrown by the CIA, I wonder what will come of Bolivia?
Revelation 16:
"...“Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters, 2 with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.”
What do the kings of this earth gain by fornication with the harlot?
In Christ
Jeff
Here is a side note in reference to the life we live in this nation. Someone wise said something to the effect, Pride goes before the fall.
U.S. has second worst newborn death rate in modern world, report says
Research: 2 million babies die in first 24 hours each year worldwide
By Jeff Green
CNN
(CNN) -- An estimated 2 million babies die within their first 24 hours each year worldwide and the United States has the second worst newborn mortality rate in the developed world, according to a new report.
American babies are three times more likely to die in their first month as children born in Japan, and newborn mortality is 2.5 times higher in the United States than in Finland, Iceland or Norway, Save the Children researchers found.
Only Latvia, with six deaths per 1,000 live births, has a higher death rate for newborns than the United States, which is tied near the bottom of industrialized nations with Hungary, Malta, Poland and Slovakia with five deaths per 1,000 births.
"The United States has more neonatologists and neonatal intensive care beds per person than Australia, Canada and the United Kingdom, but its newborn rate is higher than any of those countries," said the annual State of the World's Mothers report.
The report, which analyzed data from governments, research institutions and international agencies, found higher newborn death rates among U.S. minorities and disadvantaged groups. For African-Americans, the mortality rate is nearly double that of the United States as a whole, with 9.3 deaths per 1,000 births.
Sub-Saharan Africa remains the worst place in the world to be a mother or child, with Scandinavian nations again taking the top spots in the rankings by the Connecticut-based humanitarian group.
Sweden heads the list, with Niger last. (10 worst and best)
The "Mothers' Index" in the report ranks 125 nations according to 10 gauges of well-being -- six for mothers and four for children -- including objective measures such as lifetime mortality risk for mothers and infant mortality rate and subjective measures such as the political status of women.
Charles MacCormack, president and CEO of Save the Children, said the report card "illustrates the direct line between the status of mothers and the status of their children."
"In countries where mothers do well, children do well," he said in a written statement accompanying the report.
But each year, according to the report, more than a half-million women die as a result of pregnancy and childbirth difficulties, 2 million babies die within their first 24 hours, 2 million more die within their first month and 3 million are stillborn.
An unhealthy start
As Americans celebrate Mother's Day on Sunday, "5,000 mothers will mourn the loss of the newborn they bear that very day in the developing world," said Anne Tinker, director of Save the Children's Saving Newborn Lives initiative.
"All children, no matter where they are born, deserve a healthy start in life," Melinda Gates wrote in a foreword to the report, which was funded in part by the foundation she runs with her husband, Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates.
MacCormack said "significant progress" had been made in reducing deaths in children under age 5 in recent years, but "we have made little progress in reducing mortality rates for babies during the first month of life."
Causes of death in the developing world were dramatically different from those in the developed world, the report said. In industrialized nations deaths were most likely to result from babies being born too small or too early, while in the developing world about half of newborn deaths were from infection, tetanus and diarrhea.
The newborn mortality rate in the United States has fallen in recent decades, the report said, but continues to affect minorities disproportionately.
Only 17 percent of all U.S. births were to African-American families, but 33 percent of all low-birthweight babies were African-American, according to the report.
The research also found that poorer mothers with less education were at a significantly higher risk of early delivery. The study added that in general lower educational attainment was associated with higher newborn mortality.
Tinker said Japan was among a number of nations highly ranked mainly because they offer free health services for pregnant women and babies, while the United States suffers from disparities in access to health care.
"We can do better here, but what's really important is that we do something" in the developing world, she said.
The report said almost all newborn and maternal deaths take place in developing nations -- 99 percent and 98 percent, respectively. The newborn mortality rates were particularly high in countries with a recent history of armed conflict, including Liberia and Sierra Leone.
But the report also concluded that political will was more important than national wealth. A "newborn scorecard" ranking 78 developing nations found that some relatively impoverished countries -- including Colombia, Mexico, Nicaragua and Vietnam -- fare better than others.
Ranking at the bottom of the scorecard were Liberia, Afghanistan, Angola and Iraq -- countries where armed conflict and cultural practices impede newborn survival.
"It's tragic that millions of newborns die every year, especially when these deaths are so easily preventable," Gates wrote. "Three out of four newborn deaths could be avoided with simple, low-cost tools that already exist, such as antibiotics for pneumonia, sterile blades to cut umbilical cords and knit caps to keep babies warm."
'The good news'
The Mothers' Index -- which excluded some nations that lacked sufficient data -- highlights huge disparities between the nations at the top and the bottom of the list.
Compared with mothers in the top 10 countries, a mother in the bottom 10 was found to be more than 750 times more likely to die in pregnancy or childbirth.
In top-ranked Sweden, skilled personnel are present at nearly all births, but in bottom-ranked Niger, such help is available for only 16 percent of women in labor.
"The good news," said MacCormack, "is that we know what it takes to help these moms and children survive and thrive."
The report highlights the three areas it says have the most influence on child well-being: female education, presence of a trained attendant at birth and use of family planning services.
Educated women, the report said, are more likely to marry and give birth later in life, to seek health care and to encourage education for their children, including girls.
The report said that family planning and increased contraception use leads to lower maternal and infant death rates. Many women and children in developing nations, it said, die as a result of births that come at the wrong time -- too close together, too early or too late in the mother's life.
We say we are blessed, yet what is the truth?
In Christ
Jeff
Here is another reference to the type of life we live in this nation.
Study finds more serious illness despite greater U.S. spending
CHICAGO (AP) -- Middle-aged, white Americans are much sicker than their counterparts in England, startling new research shows, despite U.S. health care spending per person that's more than double what England spends.
A higher rate of Americans tested positive for diabetes and heart disease than the English. Americans also self-reported more diabetes, heart attacks, strokes, lung disease and cancer.
The gap between the countries holds true for educated and uneducated, rich and poor.
"At every point in the social hierarchy there is more illness in the United States than in England and the differences are really dramatic," said study co-author Dr. Michael Marmot, an epidemiologist at University College London in England.
The study, appearing in Wednesday's Journal of the American Medical Association, adds context to the already-known fact that the United States spends more on health care than any other industrialized nation, yet trails in rankings of life expectancy.
The United States spends about $5,200 per person on health care while England spends about half that in adjusted dollars.
"Everybody should be discussing it: Why isn't the richest country in the world the healthiest country in the world?" Marmot said.
"It's something of a mystery," said Richard Suzman of the U.S. National Institutes of Health, which helped fund the study.
The researchers looked for answers in the data, which came from government-sponsored health surveys. The research was supported by grants from government agencies in both countries. A U.S. researcher from the Rand Corp. was on the team.
Smoking rates are about the same on both sides of the pond. The English have a higher rate of heavy drinking, but a higher percentage of Americans are obese.
The researchers crunched numbers to create a hypothetical statistical world in which the English had American lifestyle risk factors, including being as fat as Americans. In that model, the researchers found Americans still would be sicker.
Only non-Hispanic whites were included in the study to eliminate the influence of racial disparities. The researchers looked only at people ages 55 through 64, and the average age of the samples was the same.
Americans reported twice the rate of diabetes compared to the English: 12.5 percent versus 6 percent. For high blood pressure, it was 42 percent for Americans versus 34 percent for the English; cancer showed up in 9.5 percent of Americans compared to 5.5 percent of English.
The upper crust in both countries was healthier than middle-class and low-income people in the same country. But richer Americans' health status resembled the health of the low-income British.
Health experts have known the U.S. population is less healthy than that of other industrialized nations, according to several important measurements. U.S. life expectancy, for example, ranks behind that of about two dozen other countries, according to the World Health Organization.
Some have believed the U.S. has lagged because it has a more ethnically diverse population than some of the higher-ranking countries, said Suzman, who heads the National Institute on Aging's Behavioral and Social Research Program. "Minority health in general is worse than white health," he said.
But the new study showed that when minorities are removed from the equation, and adjustments are made to control for education and income, white people in England are still healthier than white people in the United States.
"As far as I know, this is the first study showing this," said Suzman who called the results "surprising." But some other experts said the findings were predictable.
Earlier studies have shown the United States does a poorer job than other industrialized countries at providing primary medical care to its citizens, particularly to those with less education and income, said Dr. Barbara Starfield, a professor of health policy and pediatrics at Johns Hopkins University.
"Countries oriented toward providing good primary care basically do better in health," she said.
Marmot offered yet another explanation for the gap: Americans' financial insecurity. Improvements in household income have eluded all but the top fifth of Americans since the mid-1970s. Meanwhile, English citizens saw their incomes improve, he said.
Robert Blendon, a professor of health policy at the Harvard School of Public Health who was not involved in the study, said the stress of striving for the American dream may account for Americans' lousy health.
"The opportunity to go both up and down the socioeconomic scale in America may create stress," Blendon said. Americans don't have a reliable government safety net like the English enjoy, Blendon said.
However, Britain's universal health-care system shouldn't get credit for better health, Marmot and Blendon agreed.
Both said it might explain better health for low-income citizens, but can't account for better health of England's more affluent residents.
Marmot cautioned against looking for explanations in the two countries' health-care systems.
"It's not just how we treat people when they get ill, but why they get ill in the first place," Marmot sa
end of article...
We are told that we are blessed, what is the truth?
In Christ
Jeff
This is a report card of the quality of primary education among the developed countries....
Country Marks and Grades
Class position
Country
Marks
out of
100
Final
grade
(A-F)
1st
Norway
100
A
2nd
Netherlands
95
A
3rd
Denmark
86
B
4th
Sweden
84
B
5th
United Kingdom
76
B
6th
Ireland
74
B
7th
Canada
65
C
8th
Switzerland
59
C
9th
Belgium
55
C
10th
Finland
48
D
11th
France
46
D
12th
Luxembourg
41
D
13th
Portugal
38
D
14th
Greece
37
D
15th
Japan
35
D
16th
Germany
34
D
17th
Australia
31
D
18th
Italy
23
E
18th
Spain
23
E
19th
New Zealand
22
E
20th
USA
18
F
21st
Austria
11
F
Why do we think of ourselves more highly than we are?
In Christ
Jeff
The Russian President Putin said this about the United States yesterday...
But amid increasingly vocal American criticism of his domestic and foreign policies, Putin also issued a veiled response to Vice President Dick Cheney's accusations that Moscow is rolling back on democracy and strong-arming its ex-Soviet neighbors.
"Where is all this pathos about protecting human rights and democracy when it comes to the need to pursue their own interests?" said Putin, who also used a fairy-tale reference to criticize the aggressive U.S. course in global affairs.
"We are aware what is going on in the world," he said. "Comrade wolf knows whom to eat, it eats without listening and it's clearly not going to listen to anyone."
CNN's Senior International Correspondent Matthew Chance said the speech -- the text of which had been kept secret until it was delivered -- was not the one that had been expected.
Kremlin watchers said the speech would focus on international affairs, said Moscow-based Chance. But the main themes of the speech were economic, although the Russian leader did touch on some international issues.
The main themes of Putin's speech were the importance of the Russian army and the need to increase the country's birthrate, calling the persistent population decline one of the most serious problems facing the country.
Putin also called for Russia to focus on investment and innovation to win its deserved place in the world economy. He also called for more work to tackle alcoholism.
Devoting much of the hour-long speech to defense, Putin stressed that Russia needs a strong military not only to guard against terrorism and attacks but also to resist political pressure from abroad. He noted that Russia's military budget was 25 times lower than that of the United States.
"Their house is their fortress -- good for them," he said. "But that means that we also must make our house strong and reliable."
end of article..
Isaiah 25
2 \tFor You have made a city a ruin,
\tA fortified city a ruin,
\tA palace of foreigners to be a city no more;
\tIt will never be rebuilt.
3 \tTherefore the strong people will glorify You;
\tThe city of the terrible nations will fear You.
4 \tFor You have been a strength to the poor,
\tA strength to the needy in his distress,
\tA refuge from the storm,
\tA shade from the heat;
\tFor the blast of the terrible ones is as a storm against the wall.
5 \tYou will reduce the noise of aliens,
\tAs heat in a dry place;
\tAs heat in the shadow of a cloud,
\tThe song of the terrible ones will be diminished.
6 \tAnd in this mountain
\tThe LORD of hosts will make for all people
\tA feast of choice pieces,
\tA feast of wines on the lees,
\tOf fat things full of marrow,
\tOf well-refined wines on the lees.
7 \tAnd He will destroy on this mountain
\tThe surface of the covering cast over all people,
\tAnd the veil that is spread over all nations.
8 \tHe will swallow up death forever,
\tAnd the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from all faces;
\tThe rebuke of His people
\tHe will take away from all the earth;
\tFor the LORD has spoken.
9 \tAnd it will be said in that day:
\t“Behold, this is our God;
\tWe have waited for Him, and He will save us.
\tThis is the LORD;
\tWe have waited for Him;
\tWe will be glad and rejoice in His salvation.”
10 \tFor on this mountain the hand of the LORD will rest,
\tAnd Moab shall be trampled down under Him,
\tAs straw is trampled down for the refuse heap.
11 \tAnd He will spread out His hands in their midst
\tAs a swimmer reaches out to swim,
\tAnd He will bring down their pride
\tTogether with the trickery of their hands.
12 \tThe fortress of the high fort of your walls
\tHe will bring down, lay low,
\tAnd bring to the ground, down to the dust.
There will come a time where those who place their faith in their fortress, those who build their walls high to protect themselves, they will find that God will tear it all down...
In Christ
Jeff
Hugo Chavez, president of Venezuela, is offering to sell oil at $50 per barrel. It has become apparent that Venezuela has more oil than Saudi Arabia. Why won't the nations of this world take his offer?
Chavez wants to invest the money he receives from the countries oil resources back into the nation. Saudi Arabia on the other hand, takes the money it recieves and buys U.S. Treasury Bonds.
Do you see the difference?
In Christ
Jeff
The nation of Ecuador nationalized its oil industry yesterday. Democracy and nationalism is taking root in all of South America.
The people of these nations desire to use the petro dollars to build up their own nation.
What does that mean for the prosperity of our nation?
In Scripture we find that God overthrows nations when they begin to do things similar to what is spoken of in Amos 8:
Amos 8:5 Saying:
\t“When will the New Moon be past,
\tThat we may sell grain?
\tAnd the Sabbath,
\tThat we may trade wheat?
\tMaking the ephah small and the shekel large,
\tFalsifying the scales by deceit,
6 \tThat we may buy the poor for silver,
\tAnd the needy for a pair of sandals—
\tEven sell the bad wheat?”
In Christ
Jeff
bro Jeff
i know it has been a while since you posted this but i feel led to respond.
i too came here in pursuit of that dream but was quickly disillousioned. even before i was saved i was aware of some of the shady things which go on. now that the Lord has His hand on me and He is showing me things as He sees them i too see that there is no hope in man. it used to be that when i'd see a talking head talking up some politician or going to bat for them i'd say "you know what, you'll get yours...just you wait..." that was because my ego was in the way. but praise God i now see that He is the victim here, i share in His grief that men will go through all kinda of things to put their hope in other men and yet not in God. Those who have faith in systems of government, wealth, military might will all be sorely disappointed and i share in the Lord's grief over that.
when it all falls apart wherein will they place their faith?
God have mercy on us. AMEN.
Brother Ironman wrote:
when it all falls apart wherein will they place their faith?
Proverbs 11:
Prov. 11:1 Dishonest scales are an abomination to the LORD,
\tBut a just weight is His delight.
2 \tWhen pride comes, then comes shame;
\tBut with the humble is wisdom.
3 \tThe integrity of the upright will guide them,
\tBut the perversity of the unfaithful will destroy them.
4 \tRiches do not profit in the day of wrath,
\tBut righteousness delivers from death.
5 \tThe righteousness of the blameless will direct his way aright,
\tBut the wicked will fall by his own wickedness.
6 \tThe righteousness of the upright will deliver them,
\tBut the unfaithful will be caught by their lust.
7 \tWhen a wicked man dies, his expectation will perish,
\tAnd the hope of the unjust perishes.
8 \tThe righteous is delivered from trouble,
\tAnd it comes to the wicked instead.
9 \tThe hypocrite with his mouth destroys his neighbor,
\tBut through knowledge the righteous will be delivered.
What Solomon wrote in this passage of Scripture speaks to the generation we live in. There are two paths. There are two sources of hope. There are two judgements.
If we are approaching the Day of the Lord, this will certainly be a time where God's plan will partly consist of this aspect:
Isaiah 30
27 \tBehold, the name of the LORD comes from afar,
\tBurning with His anger,
\tAnd His burden is heavy;
\tHis lips are full of indignation,
\tAnd His tongue like a devouring fire.
28 \tHis breath is like an overflowing stream,
\tWhich reaches up to the neck,
\tTo sift the nations with the sieve of futility;
\tAnd there shall be a bridle in the jaws of the people,
\tCausing them to err.
Doesn't is seem everywhere we look there seems to be this sense of futility?
In Christ
Jeff
I heard this testimony of a writer who is Bolivian.
He said that Americans, from Chile to Alaska share and strive to frame their ideals by words and the thoughts that they paint. He began to testify of a growth of freedom that is beginning to grow in South America. He testified that this is occuring because the United States is preoccupied by the events in the Middle East.
He spoke of democracy taking root. He spoke of patriotism for one's nation growing in many of the nations of the South American continent. Then he spoke about another insight.
He spoke of nations who have developed military/industrial complexes and the fruit that comes from these nations. He said that Patriotism is encouraged in these nations. The words spoken in all sources of information promote patriotism. Yet in third world countries, the promotion of patriotism is demonized by the first world nations.
He gave an illustration which spoke of the current situation in Venezuela. He said that in the information disseminated by the United States, the present democratically elected president, Hugo Chavez is painted as a despotic dictator. This Bolivian writer state that Hugo Chavez has been elected by the majority of Venezuelan for eight consecutive elections. This writer also states that these elections have been certified as being legitimate by people like former President of the United States, Jimmy Carter.
Yet the information, the propaganda that the people of the United States continually hears seeks to demonize the democratically created government of Venezuela.
The writer then paints a picture of what he has come to understand. The military/industrial complex manufactures weapons. The military/industrial complex needs oil to maintain itself. In nations where patriotism grows, in nations where the people begin to believe that they have the right to own, the freedom to own the natural resources that exist within their nation, these nations present a threat to the military\\industrial complex. The growth of patriotism in these third world countries is then demonized. These military/industrial complexes need demons. They need to use the weapons that they have manufactured. They need to continue to create a perception in their own nations that demons exist so that they can continue to convince people that money and resources must be spent to build the fortress.
He said the manufacturing of weapons need demons. And once the demons are created, wars can then be waged.
end of thought...
Doesn't this speak of the futility that is spoken of in this work by God...
Isaiah 30
28 \tHis breath is like an overflowing stream,
\tWhich reaches up to the neck,
\tTo sift the nations with the sieve of futility;
\tAnd there shall be a bridle in the jaws of the people,
\tCausing them to err.
Democracy is not the answer...
In Christ
Jeff
bro Jeff
the Lord has made it plain to me and to many others that it is only a matter of time before all this comes tumbling down and the futility of all our efforts to exercise our perceived sovereingty is exposed. How terrible it will be for those who have yet to know the Lord! Even so the Lord will call some out from that number into His own camp and make them mighty men and women of valour for His sake and His glory.
It shall all happen in a way such that no man will be able to deny the hand of God coming against the world even if they do not say it with their lips.
Quicken us Lord to our foolishness so we may repent and know you. AMEN.
Col. 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
Brother, there are many who do not want to see, there are many who are still yoked to the "traditions of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ."
Many fall under the same condemnation as those who Paul sought to correct in the Corinthian church.
2Cor. 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? 15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols?
What is the solution?
17 Therefore
\t“Come out from among them
\tAnd be separate, says the Lord.
\tDo not touch what is unclean,
\tAnd I will receive you.”
18 \t“I will be a Father to you,
\tAnd you shall be My sons and daughters,
\tSays the LORD Almighty.”
Scripture will teach those what is of God and what is according to the world. The question remains, do we want to see?
In Christ
Jeff
1 in every 136 people of this nation is behind bars.
In Christ
Jeff
bro Jeff
like Christ said to the pharisees in matthew chapt 3
[b]Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, 2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. 3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. 5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; 6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
so much has crept in from the traditions of men and poisoned the Faith and morphed it into some hideous thing which is abominable before God. you are indeed right in that many men do not want to break free from these traditions of men because they are indeed comfortable in them but what fellowship has light with darkness? None except light banishes darkness. What fellowship does the temple of God have with idols, none save that the God of the Temple abhors idols and destroys them all. Christ's accord with belial is that He will crush his head under foot. The only fellowship the true faith has with the traditions of men is vanquishing them, that doesn't bode well for these traditions...
The solution is that we repent. we must repent before a Holy God or die! We know very well the things we do wrong in the Faith yet noone or very few want to rock the boat.
bro the last question is where it's all at. the vast majority don't want to see and learn the truth of God because it exposes the fallacy of all they hold dear. their false holiness and righteousness, perceived control over all things, false doctrines and practices and all. noone likes to be invalidated, especially by God. it seems to me that is a natural aversion to God and the things of God which is inherent in our flesh.
May the Lord see to it that our flesh is crucified and that only He lives in us and through us. AMEN.
Br Ironman wrote:
bro the last question is where it's all at. the vast majority don't want to see and learn the truth of God because it exposes the fallacy of all they hold dear. their false holiness and righteousness, perceived control over all things, false doctrines and practices and all. noone likes to be invalidated, especially by God.
This is the difference between those who still need to be fed with the milk of the word. They are not able to stand and feed on the meat of the word. Many have not found and experienced what the word of God can actually do in their lives. I myself still fail, yet He is faithful and able to continue to seperate me of the hope I have in this world.
Clarity comes as one walks with Him. Discernment of what is evil grows in those who put into practice what the word of God speaks.
Heb. 5:12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Keep on keepin on bro...
In Christ
Jeff
I heard a speech from a world leader the other day.
In this speech he said,
Democracy is the hope of the Middle East.
Democracy is the world's destiny.
Are these words and the picture they paint according to what we believers see in Scripture? Is this of the world or His kingdom?
In Christ
Jeff
bro Jeff
to go deeper into the word and chew on meat is where our Lord is taking us and it is a wonderful and fearful thing. one experiences God in a deep way and sees Him as He is but one is left forever changed. Praise God indeed He continues to separate us from the world and concecrate us to His purposes. AMEN.
Is this of the world or His kingdom?
Hi Jeff,
Your question here is adjacent to a non-rehetorical question I was going over in my head recently.
Does God's kingdom work through this worldly one or on some other plane? You've probably heard the joke about the man who was praying to be rescued from the roof of his house during the severe flood. Even though the water rose higher and higher, he would away various rescue efforts and stayed on his knees praying. To his surprise he drowned, and when he got to heaven he excitedly asked St. Peter, "Why didn't the Lord rescue me?" Peter replied of course, "What do you mean? The Lord sent a life raft, a fishing boat, and a helicopter!"
We Christian fathers often pray for God's help in providing for a family, knowing provision must come in the form of human devices like medicine, money, or material items. I've often lamented how meaningless it seems to work for money, but how necessary. Government is part of these evils. I'm not saying that American Democracy is a life raft...I've simply been wondering if God could not use democracy, though it be so very far from perfect, to bring relief to a region that is weary from totalitarianism and oppression?
I admit, I am skeptical that Democracy, which has become an increasing secular concept, can ever take root in a part of the World that has only known religous fascism.
Yet, it is a fundamental question for all Christians...how does God move in our Earthly lives? We don't put our trust in money per se, and yet without money we can't live. We look to God for justice and saftey for our families, yet ultimately hope to see our prayers realized in righteous Earthly government. We desire to be separate from the World...but we can only be separate in our hearts. Our hearts may be in heaven, but our physical feet still touch the Earth. Earthly/Heavenly is a constant tension in our lives.
Because of this tension, every day in a variety of common circumstances, I am asking the very same question you asked: "Is this of the world or His Kingdom?"
MC
I hear what you are saying Br. Mike.
In terms of Scripture, there are many examples given to us, to enable us to "discern" good from evil. We often dwell in the NT and mostly on the promises of God. Yet Scripture also gives us numerous examples of how the wicked live and what they strive for. I haven't heard many sermons that dwell on this issue that permeates Scripture.
Why?
I think maybe the people don't want to hear about the wicked. They may see some of these things in their own life.
In terms of Democracy, I go back to examples given to us in Daniel. When Daniel interprets the dream of Nebuchadnezzar, we are given an example of what God foretells of the nature of the governments to follow. It seems that the quality deminishes with each government that follows.
The last government seems to describe what we find today in Democracy. If you look to this description, it seems that God considers the government that we would label as a "king and his kingdom" to be superior to all other forms of government. Democracy would then be the most inferior.
We are given examples such as the time when the people challenge the leadership of Moses. What happened to them?
Just some thoughts. As we search the Scripture, we find clues as to what will happen in the last days. When we see these things we ourselves must discern our times. The lie of Satan is very powerful especially in the last days.
In Christ
Jeff
Thanks Jeff,
In terms of Democracy, I go back to examples given to us in Daniel... It seems that the quality deminishes with each government that follows. The last government seems to describe what we find today in Democracy. If you look to this description, it seems that God considers the government that we would label as a "king and his kingdom" to be superior to all other forms of government. Democracy would then be the most inferior.
You've mentioned this idea before. I think it's interesting. We learn from childhood that Democracy is supposed to empower the people to keep the rulers in check. Yet what happens when the people have fallen away from righteous precepts? Perhaps this is the great weakness of Democracy. It does seem, once a Democracy is in moral and spiritual decline, difficult to imagine it turning around, because there is so much divsion and individualistic resistance to authority. Perhaps one possible advantage of a Monarchy is that if the ruler repents, he can steer the government more forcefully.
MC
I realize that I’m way behind, but would like to jump in with a comment on a statement I read near the beginning:
I completely disagree with studying false religions to learn more about the world.
This statement concerns me. Oh true, there is a fragment of justification for caution. One might become attracted to a religion while studying it. However, I highly suspect that it is the LACK of adequate study that causes one to fall for false religions, or rather, religion of any kind, for all religion is false. When people choose to study religions, they should investigate MORE thoroughly, not less. They should dig underneath the shiny illusionary façade till they see the true enslavement that religion produces.
It has been said, ‘Know thy enemy.” In the same way, I believe it is of value to understand religions - how and why people are drawn in. To cloister our minds from all that stuff may temp us to relax in a smug sense of “I Thank God, I follow the RIGHT way.”
Consider our most widespread modern day religion: humanism. We are saturated in it, and constantly tempted by its lure. If we fail to see it and understand it, we fall into its deadly trap and not even know it.
Now there is another reason why your statement doesn’t make sense. You couldn’t even study the Bible. In a sense the Bible is a huge thesis on false religions – beginning in the Garden – right through to Revelation - from barbaric paganism to righteous Judaism. The fig leaves were the beginnings of false religion, and nothing has changed since. Religion of any kind is a big fig leaf, one’s way of hiding from God.
Biblical Jewish history reveals the outcome of blind ignorance. Because they refused to understand and admit the ways of their own ancestors, they also couldn’t see it in themselves. And so they merely repeated the past.
One other thought: I feel that some of the cautions given in scripture make more sense when we see that their purpose in protecting the flock from certain false religions/heresies; ex Colossians (Gnosticism, etc)
Maybe what I mean to say overall is: It’s not whether one studies or doesn’t study religions as much as what lens one looks through – God’s eyes or man’s. I suppose that could also be said for world events or issues of any kind.
******
Now back to the topic ...
Diane
Brother Mike wrote:
Yet what happens when the people have fallen away from righteous precepts? Perhaps this is the great weakness of Democracy.
Dan. 2:36 “This is the dream. Now we will tell the interpretation of it before the king. 37 You, O king, are a king of kings. For the God of heaven has given you a kingdom, power, strength, and glory; 38 and wherever the children of men dwell, or the beasts of the field and the birds of the heaven, He has given them into your hand, and has made you ruler over them all—you are this head of gold. 39 But after you shall arise another kingdom inferior to yours; then another, a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth.
In this section of Scripture we find that God has given the king; the power, strength, and glory. Then in verse 39, the succession of kingdoms diminishes in quality.
41 Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay. 42 And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile. 43 As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay.
In this last kingdom we find that division will always exist. Clay and iron do not mix. 43. "As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another...
Why do they not adhere?
Luke 12:51 Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division.
Even for those who are babes in Christ...
1Cor. 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; 3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?
Mere men, without the mind of Christ, are subject to the carnal mind. The fruit of the carnal mind cannot bring peace but strife for the carnal mind cannot please God. The carnal mind is an enemy of God.
Democracy is a picture of this iron and clay. The leaders of this world saturate the media with this notion that Democracy is a noble pursuit. The pragmatic efforts spent in this endeavor will reap peace. However, Democracy finds it's demise because of the pride of man.
Prov. 13:10 \tBy pride comes nothing but strife,
\tBut with the well-advised is wisdom.
Prov. 28:25 \tHe who is of a proud heart stirs up strife,
\tBut he who trusts in the LORD will be prospered.
The government of men for men will fail, yet God will seperate the hopes of those who find Him from the hopes of mere men.
1Tim. 2:1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence.
What is Paul's focus for what we the believer should pray for?
In Christ
Jeff
Sister Diane wrote:
Maybe what I mean to say overall is: It’s not whether one studies or doesn’t study religions as much as what lens one looks through – God’s eyes or man’s. I suppose that could also be said for world events or issues of any kind.
All things profitable are found in the Scriptures. Yes, much of Scripture deals with how man is fallen. We are given many examples of the ways men only find death. This part of Scripture is often treated with just a passing mention.
I do not believe however, that there is much need for a beleiver to spend much time actually studying the written words of men about their own beliefs of man made religion. For those who are mature, for those who by practice according to the word of God will be able to discern evil and good. For those who have had God change the substance for what they have hoped in, God will give them the testimony that brings to light the darkness found in man's religion.
What is most important is that we devote our time in the word of God, He will give us the wisdom and power to tear down and then to build.
In Christ
Jeff
bringin this up
I found another definition for the word evil --"worthless"----- and it is that definition I witness more than any other in life.
:-(rm
Hi
I'm just new, and sorry I'm a bit behind but I've just been reading the thread, it's encouraging to know that there others who have opened eyes to see.
Many of the things you have talked about, particularly the moral slide, is mirrored in my Country (Australia). It seems as though it is the blind are leading the blind, and we are both heading towards the pit.
One of my concerns, and I would appreciate others thoughts on this, (I think some of the quoted articles touched on it) is way humanism has influenced many a christian that it is our right to choose how many children we will have.
Throughout scripture, children are always seen as a blessing from the Lord. when did this change? Why would christians wish to dampen the blessing of the Lord?
It seems as though many people cry out for blessing with their tounges, but then reject the blessing with their bodies, aided by conctraception.
Perhaps this is why the Lord is tarrying with revival?? (He who has been faithul with little, will be put in charge of much)
Perhaps the Lord is wishing to bring revival through the heratige of the Righteouss (a Godly family)?
But it seems that as the battle approaches, many quivers will be empty, or HALF FULL.
It doesn't take long to do the calcs. In Australia the average amount of children born in each family is 1.5. So after 4 generations The great granparents will have 3 or 4 great grand kids.
If christians averaged 12 (just a random No. based on 12 tribes), then the great grandparents would have 1728 great grandkids as opossed to 3 or 4!! Also note that this is happening on grand scale.
It seems that the reason for this is either for the fufillment of selfishness (which we learnt in the school of humanism), or we do not have faith that the Lord will provide our needs, (as I think it was Bill Gothard who said "God always pays for what he orders") but also remember anything not done in faith is sin.
Or perhaps people are just blinded by the gods of this Age??
(I'm not sure but maybe do some medical reasons demand contraception?)
Anyway I would appreciate other thoughts and comments, as I recognise that I do not have a morgage on the truth!
Your brother in Christ
Ashley
Brother Ormly wrote:
I found another definition for the word evil --"worthless"----- and it is that definition I witness more than any other in life.
Thankyou for this thought. As I read it, all kinds of Scriptures come to mind which support this thought of worthlessness. I had never seen this idea of evil and worthlessness in the same light.
I will be pondering this thought for it has opened another door in which to glean from Scripture.
God Bless
In Christ
Jeff
Sister Ashley wrote:
Throughout scripture, children are always seen as a blessing from the Lord. when did this change? Why would christians wish to dampen the blessing of the Lord?
Because the world teaches us to strive for "worthless" hopes and desires. The wisdom of this world promotes the things that brings only pride, strife, and death.
It seems that the reason for this is either for the fufillment of selfishness (which we learnt in the school of humanism),
The school of humanism, now that is another thought. There is a thread that preceeds this thread. "These days are Evil." In it I have posted thoughts as to how "the school" goes about teaching and implanting the 'worthless hopes and desires." Like you I have only a part of the understanding of the truth and how this truth has shed light on the darkness the permeates this generation with the worship of man...
The seed of Satan worships the creation and not the Creator. How much of what we believer's strive for is worthless?
In Christ
Jeff
Quoting Ashley:
Throughout scripture, children are always seen as a blessing from the Lord. when did this change? Why would christians wish to dampen the blessing of the Lord?
Not nearly so, in the days of idolatous Israel, see what GOD said:
Isaiah 3:5 And the people shall be oppressed, every one by another, and every one by his neighbour: the child shall behave himself proudly against the ancient, and the base against the honourable.
Isaiah 3:12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.
Children are blessings only to the extent where parents are bringing them up to the "..nurture and admonition of the Lord...." ,by HIS Grace and to HIS glory.
I think, :)
:-)
rookie wrote:
Sister Ashley wrote:Throughout scripture, children are always seen as a blessing from the Lord. when did this change? Why would christians wish to dampen the blessing of the Lord?
Because the world teaches us to strive for "worthless" hopes and desires. The wisdom of this world promotes the things that brings only pride, strife, and death.
It seems that the reason for this is either for the fufillment of selfishness (which we learnt in the school of humanism),
The school of humanism, now that is another thought. There is a thread that preceeds this thread. "These days are Evil." In it I have posted thoughts as to how "the school" goes about teaching and implanting the 'worthless hopes and desires." Like you I have only a part of the understanding of the truth and how this truth has shed light on the darkness the permeates this generation with the worship of man...
The seed of Satan worships the creation and not the Creator. How much of what we believer's strive for is worthless?
In Christ
Jeff
:-Drm
Sorry I haven't replied for a while, I've been busy with work.
Just a point of clarification, it may be more appropriate to refer to me as brother Ashley, rather than "sister Ashley". lol. Sorry I should have posted something more about myself in the welcome and intro. Also, I'm 19 y.o and do not have a wife let alone children, it was not my intention to lead anyone on.
In light of that some may not take what I have said about children seriously, but can truth be excused because of the speaker?
mamalukNot nearly so, in the days of idolatous Israel, see what GOD said:
Isaiah 3:5 And the people shall be oppressed, every one by another, and every one by his neighbour: the child shall behave himself proudly against the ancient, and the base against the honourable.
Isaiah 3:12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.:
I think we may agree, but in these verse's it refers to children as opressors, not a curse.
Psalm 127:3 (NLT)
3Children are a gift from the LORD;
they are a reward from him.
My understanding is God Bless's us with children (Ever good gift and every perfect gify is from above, and comes down from the father of lights - James 1), if parents do not delight in the Law of the Lord and train them up, they may indeed be oppressers of their parents, but as far as God is concerned, he has given us the good gift and the manual, if we do not follow the manual and the gift is ruined, is God to blame?
I suppose the argument comes down to "did God give the gift with intentions of Judgment, pre-empting that the recievers would not obey the manual??
I myself have moved to Calvanist theology (particularly after street preaching)-though I do not wish to argue that here and I'm sure every body else dosn't either.
But I think as far as God's revealed will is concerned, he gives mankind children as blessing.
Quoting Ashley:
Throughout scripture, children are always seen as a blessing from the Lord. when did this change? Why would christians wish to dampen the blessing of the Lord?
Perhaps a better question, in reference to genesis 1:28 (And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply , and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.) Did God tell us to stop multiplying?
It seems that Onan tried to slow down the multiplying process (purely with selfish motives - "And Onan knew that the seed should not be his") "And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also." Gen 38:10
But I suppose the real problem, is that due to all the "science" we have learned growning up, We (as a general consensus) no longer believe that God opens and closes the womb.
Genesis 20:18
For the Lord had fast closed up all the wombs of the house of Abimelech, because of Sarah Abraham's wife.
Genesis 30:22
And God remembered Rachel, and God hearkened to her, and opened her womb.
(also a side note, my freind was studying medicine, and in Chemistry they taught that; the difference between dead matter and living is simply a makeup of a specific a chemical formular, which mankind has not yet worked out
Perhaps they should read Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
thanks for your replies, I appreciate your encouragment and critisicm.
Ashley
I think we may agree, but in these verse's it refers to children as opressors, not a curse.
Sorry I should have written; it refers to children as opressors, not a curse from God.[/
Sorry to "hog" the thread. I acciddently post the last 2 posts in the wrong thread .
appologies
I haven't spent time in this thread for a while...just catching up.
Sorry Brother Ashley for calling you a sister in the Lord...
Brother or Sister mamaluk quoted this Scripture...
Isaiah 3:5 And the people shall be oppressed, every one by another, and every one by his neighbour: the child shall behave himself proudly against the ancient, and the base against the honourable.
Isaiah 3:12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.
These particular Scriptures are pronouncing judgement on a wicked generation in Israel. Instead of mighty men ruling over His people, God will give them men and women who are not able to rule over His people. Instead, these childish rulers will further increase the desolation that is coming upon Israel...
In Christ
Jeff
Bernanke urges soft hand in globalization
Argues for work retraining programs and other ways to ease pain caused by economic shifts; no comments on interest rates or inflation.
August 25 2006: 10:14 AM EDT
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke urged policymakers and the nation at large Friday to embrace the global economy and help those hurt by shifting economic patterns, saying disruptions caused by lost jobs or declining profits in some industries would be offset by stronger overall growth.
Speaking at the Federal Reserve bank of Kansas City's Economic Symposium in Jackson Hole, Wyo., Bernanke avoided any specific talk on interest rates, inflation or the pace of economic growth, instead focusing on the long term benefits of globalization.
Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke
"The potential benefits of increased global economic integration are large indeed," said Bernanke in prepared remarks. But "social and political opposition to rapid economic integration has also emerged."
He urged expanding work retraining programs and other social programs to ease the disruptions caused by a changing global economic environment.
"The challenge for policy-makers is to ensure that the benefits of global economic integration are sufficiently widely shared (so) a consensus for welfare-enhancing change can be obtained," he said.
end of article...
Is globalization good or evil according to Scripture?
In Christ
jeff
Brother Rahman suggested this video from another thread...
This video explains the existence of the Federal Reserve...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4991544789166784731
In Christ
Jeff
hey bro Jeff
i got to watch that video on the federal reserve and it was most enlightening. it's amazing how the enemy has his hands in all the world's affairs. what is even more amazing though is that while he thinks he's pulling a fast one on God, he's the one getting hustled. i've not known my God to ever lose at anything.
Brother Ironman wrote:
what is even more amazing though is that while he thinks he's pulling a fast one on God, he's the one getting hustled. i've not known my God to ever lose at anything.
Ephesians 2:1-2
"And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience..."
Yes brother it is true for the believer in Christ, yet look to what Paul says of the many who do not know Christ. They are walking in the path directed by Satan. His lies are very enticing. The great whore Babylon is one of his main devises in destroying and devouring the masses of men.
Why doesn't the church bring into the light the efforts of Satan to bring about the globalization of the world's economies?
In Christ
Jeff
bro Jeff
"And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience..."
AMEN bro, we whom God in His infinite wisdom and mercy has called to Himself before the setting of the foundations of the earth walk in according to the Spirit of God. The world would have us think that things are relative, that there are shades of grey in God but He is black and white. We may not always be able to see that clearly but that is the case. whenever even us believers aren't doing what God has called us to do, we are doing what the enemy would have us do. praise God though that for us somehow He works all things to His glory (Romans 8:28) This is not to say we should do whataver we want but rather we should be even [i][b]further compelled
indeed the enemy's lies are most enticing and the truth seeming like a very bitter bitter pill. cotton candy might taste good but it'll rot your teeth...i've not known any medicine to taste good no matter what flavouring they put on it, but if you take it as prescribed, you get better.
Why doesn't the church bring into the light the efforts of Satan to bring about the globalization of the world's economies?
bro it seems to me the church (so called) is caught up in the lies of the enemy and/or is just a straight tool of his and has become this allied to/become this great whore and so is not going to squeal on what is happenning. of course while the enemy thinks he's getting over on God, God somehow works even this deception to His advantage. however the Church proper is not fooled by this by God's grace and mercy. thank God we're vessels of mercy...
bro Jeff
you know i never understood how or why a country could owe itself money or if not itself, WHO on earth would a nation owe money to. now i know. the enemy is most insidious and sinister in how he operates so as to enslave people...in spite of all this the word says that our Lord will ultimately be victorious and the gates of hades will not prevail against His Church, although we may come to being within one blow of a K.O.
man bro as our Lord led bro Rahman and i through Romans 9 on predestination, our Lord showed me that the victory we have in Him is absolute. this is further reinforced by romans 8 28.
God bless you bro
bump
Rookie, your no "rookie". EXCELLENT JOB! I am amazed and thankfull that you were able to pull all that into this thread. I hope everyone who has not read it will! God bless, John
thingsabove wrote:
thankfull that you were able to pull all that into this thread.
There is another thread which is the precursor to this thread, These Days are Evil...
This all makes more sense if you go back to the beginning.
God is the amazing One...
God Bless
Jeff
Here is an example of the manifestations brought about by globalization.
article found on Financial Sense Online...
"The most influential driver behind the CRB’s plunge since August 8th however, was the unwinding of the Iranian “war premium” which had inflated the price of crude oil by as much as $15 per barrel this year. Iranian negotiators have skillfully split the British, French and the German coalition away from the Bush administration’s hard-line stance for economic sanctions against Iran.
Iran’s rulers have always relied on the Russian and Chinese veto to any economic sanctions, but now there are signs the Europeans are also seeking a way out, once the moment of truth had finally arrived. On Sept 13th, British Foreign office minister Kim Howells waved the white flag, “I can’t see a military way through this, and I’m not sure that even there’s an easy way for the UN to impose sanctions," he told parliament’s Foreign Affairs Committee.
Economic sanctions against Iran would jeopardize more than 10,000 jobs, the German Chamber of Commerce said on Sept 1st. “Economic sanctions against Iran would solve none of the political problems. But the German economy would be hard hit in an important growing market.” France’s oil giant Total is interested in a 10-15% stake in Iran’s Azadegan, seen as one of the largest unexploited oilfields in the world, said head of exploration Christophe de Margerie on Sept 12th.
On Sept 18th, Norwegian energy and aluminum giant Norsk Hydro, signed an oil exploration deal with the National Iranian Oil Company for the Khorramabad block in southwestern Iran. “If exploration proves to be successful, the period of the agreement will be 25 years,” Hydro said.
Iran’s chief nuclear negotiator Ali Larijani reportedly offered a 2-month suspension of Tehran’s nuclear enrichment program in talks with EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana, which sent crude oil plunging below $66 per barrel. Still, there are questions of whether or not Iran’s internal debate is over, and if the concession by Larijani is fully backed by the Ayatollah Khameinei and president Amadinejad in Tehran."
What is the underlying motivation that is found in this situation?
Is it the workings of the Great Whore Babylon?
In Christ
Jeff
In the example given in the previous post, Britain, France, Germany, Norway, China, and Russia have chosen to oppose the United States in their effort to stop Iran from developing a nuclear weapon.
What is it that the kings of these countries prize more than the threat of Islamic Facism?
Remember this is a spiritual battle that we fight.
So is this an example of spiritual adultery?
In Christ
Jeff
My son is currently studying the U.S. Constitution is social studies. As a way to help frame the time...we watched a Ken Burns documentary on the life of Thomas Jefferson.
After watching the documentary my son said that he did not like Thomas Jefferson. Why?
He witnessed the evidence of hypocracy that existed in this man. Thomas Jefferson like the leaders of France, Germany, England, Norway, China, and Russia also share in this type of hypocracy.
What is the root of this hypocracy?
In Christ
Jeff
What is the root of this hypocracy?
Firts thing that comes to mind is the root is rebellion against the government of God. The branch that Jefferson locked onto was a form of universalism I think. The fruit produced was french revolution with heads being cut off. I think Dwight ?? and also lyman beecher? put up a good counterattack to the universalists doctrine.
God bless, John
What is the root of this hypocracy?
First thing that comes to mind, the root is rebellion against the government of God. The branch that Jefferson locked onto was a form of universalism I think. The fruit produced was french revolution with heads being cut off. I think Dwight ?? and also lyman beecher? put up a good counterattack to the universalists doctrine.
God bless, John
Yes brother John.
First and foremost is the fact that Jefferson was not enlightened according to Scripture but according to man. Wisdom that is from above is perfect, peaceable, and pure. Jefferson struggled throughout his life with these divergent paths. He chose the path walked by many.
Jefferson's life was founded on sinking sand. Many of his day knew of a world ruled by the elite. They saw that man ruled over other to their own injury. They saw the pitiful conditions of the majority. They saw the injustices.
Yet, the French Revolution just reversed the roles of the elite and the masses. The same fruit came from the same bad tree.
In Christ
Jeff
I found this article on Yahoo...it speaks of world religion and the prosperity gospel...
"Wealth and Values
God and Money
MarketWatch
By Thomas Kostigen
We're all one faith in the religion of getting rich
Lots of people pray they'll get rich. But increasingly, that rite is being taken more seriously.
In a recent survey of people with at least $25 million to invest, "hard work, smart risk-taking and God" were credited for wealth accumulation. Recently, Time magazine's cover story asked "Does God Want You To Be Rich?"
Investment funds, investment strategies and investment advisers specialize in particular religious beliefs, tailoring products and services to a certain faith's principles. There are even faith-based hedge funds. These mechanisms and maneuvers tie into both old and new ways of thinking about being rich.
Muslims, for example, are forbidden from receiving interest from their investments, so practices have to be established to adhere to this principle. And certain Christian groups forbid investing in anything that promulgates birth control.
But a new and broader way of thinking about money is sweeping all faiths: It's OK to be rich.
Time magazine explores this concept in depth specific to Christians. The "prosperity movement," as it is dubbed, is growing -- big.
In a poll, Time found that 61% of Christians believe that God wants people to be prosperous. Almost one-third believes that if you give your money to God, God will bless you with more money. Another 17% consider themselves part of a movement to prosper.
With more than two billion Christians on the planet, that could add up to a lot of active investors -- which may explain why the Christian Brothers Investment Services is in the news so much. The Aug. 21 edition of Pension & Investments, a financial-services trade publication, named four CBIS funds as top performers in their asset class. This distinction is prominently displayed just below the group's banner, "Responsible Stewardship of Catholic Institutional Investments."
CBIS, with $4 billion under management representing more than 1,000 catholic institutions, plays an active role in the management of its money, seeking corporate reform where it sees fit and lobbying for better shareholder rights.
As Time points out, there is a wide embrace and new interpretation of biblical passages, such as John 10: 10: "I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly."
Worldwide faith
But it isn't just Christianity, as it were, looking to profit. Muslims have devised a whole system of investing around Sharia, the part of Islamic law that stipulates what's legal, or not.
Popularity of Muslim investing compelled Dow Jones to create an index around it: The Islamic Index. Why? Consider that the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority, responsible for investing all of the government's oil reserves and assets, has $500 billion alone, and that hedge funds such as Shariah Capital in Greenwich, Conn., have been created to invest private Muslim capital, and it's easy to understand the size of the market.
Jewish investment groups have sprung up as well, adapting investment criteria to halacha, Jewish religious law.
Make no mistake, there are many who believe profit-making and religious beliefs are at odds. The charitable Jewish concept of tzedakah is a high belief that runs through pretty much all faiths.
Time magazine points out that the prosperity movement among Christian groups has "infuriated a number of prominent pastors, theologians and commentators." They would like people to give unto others, not only themselves.
And there are Muslim clerics who are opposed to many types of Shariah investing. Some say the interpretation of taking and receiving interest can be too loose. Indeed, it's difficult to understand how a Shariah-compliant hedge fund could invest in debt instruments.
A prayer for pieces of eight
In any event, people now seem to want God on their side when they are making money.
Wachovia's Calibre multifamily office, which conducted the survey of people with more than $25 million to invest, found that 47% called their wealth "a blessing from God." Eighty-five percent have had their wealth for 10 years or less, Wachovia's Calibre said.
It didn't say whether or how much they donated, or what else they did with their money. But I bet the Atlanta-based Christians Financial Professionals Network, which has trained 1,000 advisers, could tell you.
It seems God and money may no longer be at odds. In fact, combining the two may be a new way to attract investors to the capital markets. After all, the Bible doesn't say, "Money is the root of all evil." It says, "The love of money is a root of all kinds of evil."
The difference in wording could make you rich -- with God's blessing.
end of article...
The Great Harlot, why do the kings of the earth fornicate with her? Why are the masses of men toss to and fro by the wine of that fornication?
In Christ
Jeff
The Great Harlot, why do the kings of the earth fornicate with her? Why are the masses of men toss to and fro by the wine of that fornication?
The world is blind to the treasure that God speaks of. They seek that which never satisfies.
Yet, look to what is happening in religion today. It too is polluted by the wine of fornication.
Do you see how the lies of Satan are manifested in those who seek that which will never satisfy? And this lie is spread over all nations and tongues. This wine is filling the earth. That is why so many will one day seek peace and put their faith in a man who has become like Satan.
Do you see that because they seek in vain, their lusts grow, and their hatred grows.
The great whore is very powerful.
In Christ
Jeff
This is a two part article talking about money and influence in our political system...and this I believe is an example of the kings fornicating with the Great Whore Babylon...
"Of Dues and Deadbeats on Capitol Hill
Parties Extract Cash from Lawmakers NYT Oct 1
To move up the ladder in Congress, you must do more than win votes; You are, quite literally, expected to pay your dues.
If you are a rank-and-file member of the House, the amount is up to $100,000. If your ambitions are to preside over a powerful committee, the duty is $300,000. For a top party leader, the tally can climb beyond $600.000.
Make those checks payable to the Republican or Democratic Congressional campaign committees…..
Four years after Congress tried to reduce the influences of money in politics by rewriting the rules of how campaigns are financed, Republicans and Democrats alike have found myriad replacements for the river of financial contributions known as soft money….
With five weeks remaining in the race, nearly half of the House Democrats are in arrears. Even a month by month installment plan –let alone the prospect that they could regain control of the chamber if they can out-hustle the Republicans-has not provided an incentive for Democrats to pay what they owe.
“Some people make a lot of money for the party, others make a lot of issues,: said Representative Dennis J. Kucinich, Democrat of Ohio, who contributed for the first time this week, but still owes $115,000. “I work on the issues side. That’s where I excel.”
The delinquency statements that Democrats sent via overnight delivery to the representatives’ homes throughout the year have been supplanted by telephone calls or personal visits from party leaders.
Representative Luis V. Gutierrez, Democrat of Illinois, said he had no intention of paying his dues of $250,000, assessed because of his seniority on the Financial Services Committee. But after a two-minute telephone conversation with the minority leader, Representative Nancy Pelosi of California, he changed course and sent in a check for $15,000.
“It’s kind of hard to ignore,” Mr. Gutierrez said in an interview, conceding that before Ms. Pelosi rang his cell phone, he had not given a nickel. “I still owe $225,000. Thank God it doesn’t affect my credit score when I go get a mortgage.”
It could, however, affect what committee assignments are passed out when Congress convenes in January. Several members said they had been told by party leaders that their positions could be on the line if they fail to contribute.
Last week, Ms Pelosi made more than 50 telephone calls to members of her caucus, chiding them to pay their dues, Representative Rahm Emanuel, Democrat of Illinois and chairman of the Congressional Campaign Committee, has barred phones at party headquarters if they had not paid at least some of what they owe.
“This is not my job,” said Mr. Emanuel, recalling the message he repeats again and again to fellow Democrats. “This is our job.”…….."
(article to be continued)
In Christ
Jeff
For Republicans, each member of the House is expected to make a contribution to the Battleground Program. The amounts range from $70,000 to $600,000, depending on the member’s position. Since July, when the program began, party leaders said, about 90 percent of the members have contributed to the program, which they hope will raise $22.5 million.
There is no public disapproval for those who do not participate. Arm twisting is conducted privately, which is why Republican officials said at least five members were summoned this week for a meeting with Speaker J. Dennis Hastert of Illinois; the majority leader, John Boehner of Ohio; and the majority whip, Roy Blunt of Missouri.
“Oftentimes Wall Street gauges a business’s future success by the number of employees investing in their company, said Representative Eric Cantor, Republican of Virginia, who heads the House program. “I view Battleground the same way.”
In the Senate, neither the Republicans nor the Democrats employ a rigorous system of dues and contributions.
Many Senators raise more money for their respective party committees than their colleagues in the House, but committee assignments in the Senate depend on a tradition of seniority.
Still, the House, where financial contributions and other demonstrations of party loyalty can trump seniority, not all longtime Democratic members believe this year’s strong push to collect dues will ultimately raise, or lower, a member’s prospects of winning an influential committee seat.
“No Democrat really believes that if you’re going to be the chairman and you don’t give the money that you’re going to lose your seat,” said Representative Barney Frank, Democrat of Mass. “If you’re a Republican, you do.”…
(end of article)
What do the kings get in return for money? What do the kings have to do to get the money?
In Christ
Jeff
Listen to the prophet Samuel as he declares his standing before God's people...
1Sam. 12:3 Here I am. Witness against me before the LORD and before His anointed: Whose ox have I taken, or whose donkey have I taken, or whom have I cheated? Whom have I oppressed, or from whose hand have I received any bribe with which to blind my eyes? I will restore it to you.”
Samuel declares that he has not stolen anything from anyone. He declares that he has not oppressed anyone. And then he speaks of the idea of taking bribes.
What happens to those who choose to accept bribes from another? What impact does taking a bribe have on one's spirit?
In Christ
Jeff
The kings and princes commit fornication, what about the sea of men?
THE COMING CORRECTION
by Bill Bonner and Addison Wiggin
Editor, The Daily Reckoning
October 13, 2006
The Daily Reckoning PRESENTS: Now that the housing market, which has been propping up the U.S. economy for quite some time now, has gone soft, what's next? Well, despite a stock market rally and high consumer confidence, Bill Bonner and Addison Wiggin warn that a correction is headed our way - and it won't be pretty. Read on...
Tout passé, tout casse say the French. Everything goes away. Everything breaks down. Nothing is born that does not die. Nothing begins that does not end. There is no morning without an evening, and no silver lining without a cloud. Empires come. Empires go.
In the financial markets, the "going" phase is called a correction. It is intended to correct the excesses and mistakes of the expansion phase. In a bull market, there are corrections that bring extraordinary gains down to more modest ones. In a bear market, corrections - which soften extraordinary losses into more ordinary ones - are known as rallies.
Generally, the force of a correction is equal and opposite to the trend that precedes it. And the pain it causes is directly proportional to the pleasant deception that went before it.
As a practical formula, this does little to help us. We still do not know when or how the correction will come. And, to borrow an idea from Lord Keynes, the deception can last a lot longer than you can remain solvent betting against it. And yet, it is even more dangerous to bet on it.
America's empire of debt rests on many huge deceptions that we have described in this book:
• That one generation can consume - and stick the next with the bill.
• That you can get something for nothing.
• That the rest of the world will take American IOUs forever - no
questions asked.
• That house prices will forever go up.
• That American labor is inherently more valuable than foreign labor.
• That the American capitalist system is freer, more dynamic, and
more productive than other systems.
• That other countries want to be more like America, even if it is
forced on them.
• That the virtues that made America rich and powerful are no
longer required to keep it rich and powerful.
• That domestic savings and capital investment are no longer necessary.
• That the United States no longer needs to make things for export.
The deception that sent credit expansion soaring between 2001 and 2005 came eagerly from America's own central bank. By setting its key lending rate below the current inflation rate, the Fed misled almost everyone.
Throughout the boom years of 2002 to 2005, the Great Deceiver, Alan Greenspan, appeared before the U.S. Senate and dissembled. Not only did inflation present no clear and present danger, neither did Americans' debt loads, nor did the negative numbers in the current account. Mr. Greenspan, who surely must have known better, found nothing to dislike and nothing to worry about.
So, we stop, draw breath, and wonder.
The deception is so large, we wonder how it could ever be fully corrected. We speak not merely of Mr. Greenspan's perjury before Congress, but of the larger deception, in which Mr. Greenspan plays a leading role.
The promise of American capitalism is that it makes people richer, freer, and more independent. But since the introduction of the Fed and the rise of the empire, the currency in which Americans keep score has so addled the figures, we scarcely know if we are winning or losing. The dollar we knew as a child - in the 1950s - is only worth a tenth as much today.
The average household today has far more of them than we did. In 1950, U.S. household debt to disposable income, which is basically after-tax income, was 34 percent (if disposable income was $10,000, households had $3,400 in outstanding debt). Today, the average American household has learned to live large - on an imperial scale. Its house is worth more dollars.
It has a bigger car. It eats out more often. It has a wider TV screen with a clearer picture. It has more employment insurance. More health insurance. More Social Security Insurance. More protection offered by more government employees than ever before. It has many more credit cards, with much larger lines of credit. It has more clothes. More toys.
More gadgets, gizmos, and whatchmacallits. It has more debt. More obligations. More chains.
Almost every American believes he is richer. Certainly, compared with the Old World, Americans have no doubt that the rise of their empire improved every subject's life. Is it true?
We pause to deliver a shocking update.
People love myth, fraud, and claptrap - especially when it flatters them. Maybe their food, life expectancy, crime rates, transportation, liquor, women, and architecture are nothing to brag about, say Americans to each other, but when they grub for money, they grub good. "Old Europe," they say, making a comparison, "is too rigid, fossilized, hidebound...a museum."
And yet, even this is a fraud. Despite Laffer's curve, Greenspan's Bubbles and Reagan's revolution, the U.S. economy has done no better than Europe.
The Economist examined the evidence. Everybody believes that America grew a lot faster than Europe over the past 10 years. But the figures, in terms of GDP/person are very close - 2.1 percent per year for America against 1.8 percent for Europe. Take out Germany - which has struggled with absorbing its formerly communist cousins from the East - and the two regions are exactly the same.
And productivity? A study by Kevin Daly, an economist at Goldman Sachs, finds that, after adjusting for differences in their economic cycles, trend productivity growth in the euro area has been slightly faster than that in America over the past 10 years.
What about jobs? America is the greatest jobs machine on the planet, right? Again, excluding Germany, jobs in the rest of Europe grew at the same pace as in America. And more jobs have been created in the Euro.
It's true that Americans earn more and spend more than Europeans...but they work a lot more hours. Europeans simply enjoy leisure more.
But what about the post-2001 "recovery?" Hasn't it been much more vigorous in America than in Europe? Well, only on the surface. Spiked up by the biggest dose of fiscal and monetary juice in history, America's economy has slightly outpaced Europe's.
But the figures are hard to compare. Europe calculates GDP growth more conservatively than America...and understates the truth, rather than overstates it, as they do at the Labor Department. More importantly, America's jolt of growth has come at great cost. While Europe got no net stimulus, America has gotten enough to give it the shakes.
"Super-lax policies of the past few years have left behind large economic and financial imbalances that cast doubt on the sustainability of America's growth," says the Economist. "From a position of surplus before 2000, the structural budget deficit (including state and local governments) now stands at almost 5 percent of GDP, three times as big as that in the Euro area.
America has a current-account deficit of 5 percent of GDP, while the euro area has a small surplus. American households now save less than 2 percent of their disposable income; the savings rate in the euro area stands at a comfortable 12 percent. Total household debt in America mounts to 84 percent of GDP, compared with only 50 percent in the euro zone."
Barely has the twenty-first century begun and America finds itself in a remarkable position. It has, what it believes is, the world's most powerful economy . . . and the world's most powerful military force. Like the defunct Soviet Union, it has a sickle in one hand and a hammer in the other. The sickle, alas, has an awkward bend in it.
Since 1990, income for the average American household has risen only 11 percent while average household spending has jumped 30 percent. How could people spend so much more money without earning more?
Outstanding household debt doubled to more than $10 trillion between 1992 and 2004, even adjusted for inflation. And in Utah last year, 28 of every 1,000 households declared bankruptcy, almost three times the rate of a decade earlier.
People are determined to live large and live better than they can afford. They do this by what economists call smoothing income. Anticipating higher incomes in the future, young families spend the money now (e.g., buying bigger houses than they can afford). Nationwide, house sizes have grown 30 percent since 1980, says Cornell economist Robert Frank.
And now even people in their 50s and 60s look forward to either higher incomes or miracles. Some economists refer to the whole phenomenon as the "democratization of credit." "Innovation and deregulation have vastly expanded credit availability to virtually all income classes," says the Fed chief. He did not mention his own role in this democratic revolution. He is too modest. He is a Danton and Robespierre put together.
The Fed chairman accomplished more than all the nation's innovators and deregulators put together. Dropping the price of credit below the inf lation rate, he offered the entire world something for nothing. Now, everyman could get himself into financial trouble, not just kings, speculators, and financiers. He made it possible for lending institutions to extend such a long rope of credit to the common man that millions are sure to hang themselves.
We don't know what to make of it, so we turn to the dead for an opinion. But it is hopeless, the corpses know even less than we do. They can't even imagine what is happening. Borrow against your house when you don't have to? Buy a house as an "investment?" Take out "equity?" "Depend on foreigners to balance your budget?" "Live beyond your means and expect Third World wage earners to make up the difference?"
The ideas that Americans once took for absurd, they now take for granted.
What was wrong with our parents, grandparents, and long-dead ancestors?
Why weren't they smart enough to realize that they could have a brand-new house with all the modern conveniences without paying for it? Why didn't they figure out that they could all get rich by buying each others' houses? But now, thank God, we are all geniuses.
The baby born when the empire began in 1913 came into the world with nothing. But he owed nothing. Now, he comes into the world owing his share of 37 trillion; that's about $128,560 with his name on it. Is he richer? Is he better off? What would the dead say? That doesn't include his share of Federal obligations and commitments that he'll have to pay, which could add $100,000 more...
(end of article)
What has American style "capitalism" wrought?
In Christ
jeff
bro Jeff
i read with much interest this last article our Lord had you post. i had long heard rumblings from a few people i know saying our economy is a house of cards which will collapse at some point. it has all become much clearer in these last couple of years by God's grace. it makes perfect sense, what goes up must come down. i know why people don't think that this will all come down, many are deceived. i mean how on earth can house prices go up and continue to do so without consequence? there is no way because when people can't afford them anymore you have to bring the prices down.
i listened to this book ( hey i'm tech-savvy, i listen to books on cd 8-) :smart: )called rich dad poor dad by robert kiyosaki and it was most enlightening. the problem with most of us is we spend more than we make so we think a raise is the way to fix it but nothing changes. there were so many things which i was convicted of (because i was guilty of them) by listening to the book. people think a house is an investment but it is a liability unless it's paid for and you have a tenant paying rent, then it is an asset. i guess hitler was right, tell a lie long and loud enough and it will become truth...
bro american capitalism has brought about an enslavement to a system the enemy cleverly designed to keep us from focusing on God. and it has worked well. however what the enemy meant for evil God will turn around for the good of those He has called so God gets the last laugh!
i believe firmly as do some other brothers i know out there that next year the economy will collapse ushering in a time wherein if we are not firmly rooted in God, we will be swept away by that judgement.
For anyone who hears, REPENT,REPTENT,REPENT OR DIE!!!
A business partner of mine recently returned from South Korea visitng family. He said his family there owns what they use...they live in old houses, and pay for cars with cash. They buy fresh produce during the week and rarely eat out. His brother-in-law runs a fruit farm and really only works about 4 months out of the year for about 60K US.
Yet their tax system is also different...not nearly as corrosive to the family income as our's is.
All these things are different over on this side of the Pacific...I am coming to the conclusion that most people I know are numbing their financial pain with credit. Credit burdens have become a divider in our local Christian bodies...each family has their own debt that they cannot share with any one else. It is a sad dynamic that is isolating peoples concern from each other. No longer do we Christians have 'all things in common"...our personal debt forces us into lonely tracks of survival.
I'm not sure about when all of this will come to a reckoning...some of it is voluntary and some of it is what the system forces you into. I pray that God have mercy on all of us...the poor among us especially. Let's feel sensitive that the poor among us might feel the sting of our prophetic finger wagging more then the "affluent" among us. We don't want to always set the children's teeth on edge for the sins of their baby boomer fathers.
I remember a quote from a Rabbi who said something like "Never announce in public that we shall not see the righteous begging for bread, because poor and hungry people might be present." And I remember this plaintive observation..."God is always hardest on the poor." Maybe, in the midst of a possible coming depression, we can work to help soften such views of God on poor people...and hopefully not be the shrewd beneficiaries of our revelations.
Blessings brothers,
MC
You know, at the beginning of this year there was one house for sale on my street, and i think in the entire neighborhood. Today this same house is still up for sale and over the last few months several other houses have gone up for sale and it looks like noone is biting. Anybody else noticing a trend lilke this where they live? I wonder if in the ensuing months, years, decades 'for sale signs' become a ubiquitous feature that dots our landscape.
There's a glut of unsold homes slowly pervading across America. This in itself will produce a ripple effect with slowing in construction and all its related sectors. Chain stores specializing in furniture and such will see a drop in demand as most furniture is bought to outfit newly bought homes, ect. Massive layoffs look imminent.
bro american capitalism has brought about an enslavement to a system the enemy cleverly designed to keep us from focusing on God.
Amen to that. To supplement what you wrote, i would add that big business marketing has masterfully lured Americans into consumer drones (i know just stating the 'obvious'. I just finished reading a book by a writer named Michael Dawson, 'The consumer trap' which basically blows the lid off and exposes the colossal business marketing machine.
Consider that the business marketing industry spends TRILLIONs of dollars a year "to manufacture customers."
Corporate marketers employ various means of obtaining demographic information to understand their buying targert. The end result - "We are the most heavily probed, surveyed, and categorized society since the dawn of human history. The intensity of this assualt has changed us, both as individuals and as a culture." Big business marketing "exist to make consumers' off-the-job habits better serve corporate bottom lines, and, thereby , to further fatten the portfolios of the established ultra-rich families..."
Its so effective, people are still spending money they don't even have yet - via credit cards - to horde ever growing stockpiles of of useless, transient junk.
America is living on borrowed money, and borrowed time.
Rob
bro Mike
All these things are different over on this side of the Pacific...I am coming to the conclusion that most people I know are numbing their financial pain with credit. Credit burdens have become a divider in our local Christian bodies...each family has their own debt that they cannot share with any one else. It is a sad dynamic that is isolating peoples concern from each other. No longer do we Christians have 'all things in common"...our personal debt forces us into lonely tracks of survival.
you know i read your post with much interest, i guess i do that with all your posts coz i do hear God speaking through them and the above hit home. my wife and i do owe a bundle in terms of student loans and credit cards but as i look around me i see others in even MORE debt and getting deeper still. new cars, houses, whatchamacallits and a big part of it IS an attempt to fill some void, a void only Christ can fill. everything outside of God that we do is because of this desire. i mean bro, these are symptoms of a much deeper and longer festering sickness, Godlessness and the only cure is the Blood of Christ. and when you mentioned about how debt loads keep us from being concerned about others, WHOA! how true is that bro? we don't have anything in common like it once was as a result we want for much. Holy Spirit is not moving as He did hence the great disunity.
I'm not sure about when all of this will come to a reckoning...some of it is voluntary and some of it is what the system forces you into. I pray that God have mercy on all of us...the poor among us especially. Let's feel sensitive that the poor among us might feel the sting of our prophetic finger wagging more then the "affluent" among us. We don't want to always set the children's teeth on edge for the sins of their baby boomer fathers.
Some of the mess we're in is voluntary, in fact i can attest to the consequences of some of my own foolish decisions financially and how although i've since repented and been forgiven, i must deal with the consequences. the thing is though God is using all that to soften me so that when He does pour out the financial blessing He promised, i'd be able to empathize with people and dish out as He requires.
God bless you bro
Chariot
You know, at the beginning of this year there was one house for sale on my street, and i think in the entire neighborhood. Today this same house is still up for sale and over the last few months several other houses have gone up for sale and it looks like noone is biting. Anybody else noticing a trend lilke this where they live? I wonder if in the ensuing months, years, decades 'for sale signs' become a ubiquitous feature that dots our landscape.
there has been a good amount of that going on...down here in galveston a story was in the paper about a couple who after 3 yrs and numerous price reductions later had not sold their home. my parents had been in the market for an investment property down here and found none. house prices in galveston are sky high...it's obscene.
Amen to that. To supplement what you wrote, i would add that big business marketing has masterfully lured Americans into consumer drones (i know just stating the 'obvious'. I just finished reading a book by a writer named Michael Dawson, 'The consumer trap' which basically blows the lid off and exposes the colossal business marketing machine.
and you know what that is also very true. we are programmed to be consumers as opposed to being business owner minded which is a completely different thing. my wife and i have a home business and most people think we're nuts...
God help us! We are going into the teeth of God's judgment and we need to be rooted in Him or we are done.
Some of the mess we're in is voluntary
I feel you here bro.
My wife and I had some time together today to discuss these things...we do this more often these days. We are attempting to live sans credit now...and it's been very difficult. I understand why people pull out the credit card now and then...not for new TV's and clothes but also for more important things. Still, we tell ourselves it's better to cry a few tears along the way rather then owing all them all at once.
Part of repentance is maintaining vigilance over our hearts...keeping out not only envy and covetness, but also fear and insecurity. How ironic that our idol money has the truth printed on it..."In God we trust." In a land where poor people are made to feel illegal and disreputable, the worship of money is all too attractive...affuent churches teach in a variety of ways that God wants you to have abundant stuff to go with your abundant life, banks are eager to give inflated home appraisals in order to sell bigger mortgages, and approved credit cards seem to literally fall out of your mailboxes.
I have a friend whose wife started a lucrative home business, and for one year enjoyed a new life style...but their fortune bit them because they didn't understand the tax ramifications...and in the following year their fortune almost destroyed them. My heart went out to them...I have another friend who has the most perfect credit score but owes almost ten times his annual salary in various real estate and credit card debts. I have another friend who was known by others as the very model of the blessed Christian business man...but upon his untimely death it was found out his 'blessing' was maintianed with massive credit card and LOC debts not even his wife knew about.
Now I've made more mistakes here then most...or at least on a bigger scale then most. They say good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement. Well even with good judgement you can dodge most of the mines and still meet up with plenty of trouble. Yet, when I allowed Jesus to take hold of me,...that is to 'hold' me instead of money comforting me... his 'chastisement' I feared became his grace...that is I was able to respond and not go on my darkened way without correction. Like the Puritans prayed "There is no wrath like the wrath of being governed by my own lusts for my own ends."
Now I have another friend who most people look down on as impoverished. His condition is often discouraging to him...yet he owes no money at all. I encourage him weekly because he only needs a few more dollars a year to pay his living expenses...such a cheap remedy would have no effect curing the financial ills of the "affuent" people I know.
God bless you brother...I can tell you too are paying your tears along the way. God may not be concerned with us driving big cars and having our fat wallets stuffed with 20's all the time...but I believe he is concerned with taking care of us!
The hardest thing for me to learn, to always be learning, are the ways of God's heart and not my own. Even when light enters our hearts, there is still plenty of darkness there...and compared to Christ's light we are still darkened brutes. To mention the prayers of the Puritans again...Let me know that the work of prayer is to bring my will to thine and that without this it is folly to pray. When I try to bring thy will to mine it is to command Christ, to be above him and wiser then He.
This is my sin and pride.
MC
bro Mike
My wife and I had some time together today to discuss these things...we do this more often these days. We are attempting to live sans credit now...and it's been very difficult. I understand why people pull out the credit card now and then...not for new TV's and clothes but also for more important things. Still, we tell ourselves it's better to cry a few tears along the way rather then owing all them all at once.
bro i look back and my foolishness is very plain to me and when you have a familiy and all that hits you, it's easy to want to run. there are indeed times one has to whip out the card to by groceries, i can testify to that. nonetheless bro it is better to cry a few tears along the way than a whole lot at once.
Part of repentance is maintaining vigilance over our hearts...keeping out not only envy and covetness, but also fear and insecurity. How ironic that our idol money has the truth printed on it..."In God we trust." In a land where poor people are made to feel illegal and disreputable, the worship of money is all too attractive...affuent churches teach in a variety of ways that God wants you to have abundant stuff to go with your abundant life, banks are eager to give inflated home appraisals in order to sell bigger mortgages, and approved credit cards seem to literally fall out of your mailboxes.
bro mike this is so true, we have to be renewed in our minds and hearts daily lest we fall back into the same mess we just got out of. it is so easy to fall back into that mess or begin to have doubts and fears but bless God for His hand on us and His mercy or else we really would be toast...
you know sometimes when i think about "in God we trust" and how some people want to have that removed from the bills i think they might as well, and change it to in money we trust...that article "does God want you to be rich?" comes to mind...i've concluded that if God intends for someone to be rich, it is for the benefit of the Body not for our own self-indulgence. of course God will take care of what we need.for the past year God has been dealing with me about casting out all that self-indulgence so that what He gives to me won't be held up by me wanting a new Rolls-Royce or something.
I have a friend whose wife started a lucrative home business, and for one year enjoyed a new life style...but their fortune bit them because they didn't understand the tax ramifications...and in the following year their fortune almost destroyed them. My heart went out to them...I have another friend who has the most perfect credit score but owes almost ten times his annual salary in various real estate and credit card debts. I have another friend who was known by others as the very model of the blessed Christian business man...but upon his untimely death it was found out his 'blessing' was maintianed with massive credit card and LOC debts not even his wife knew about.
it's interesting about your friends and the different ways in which money has affected them all. the last one though got me thinking, perhaps we have our view of what it is to be blessed all messed up. Paul went without food or wam clothes for some time and was content in that, to me that is being blessed, knowing God is in control and yeilding to Him.
Now I have another friend who most people look down on as impoverished. His condition is often discouraging to him...yet he owes no money at all. I encourage him weekly because he only needs a few more dollars a year to pay his living expenses...such a cheap remedy would have no effect curing the financial ills of the "affuent" people I know.
yes bro your advice and encouragement to this brother wouldn't go over well with the more affluent ones you know, but God will chasten us and the wisdom of that simplicity will be plain. .
God bless you brother...I can tell you too are paying your tears along the way. God may not be concerned with us driving big cars and having our fat wallets stuffed with 20's all the time...but I believe he is concerned with taking care of us!
thanks bro, indeed our Lord is chastening me and my wife both so that we understand the implications of foolish decisions financially. in this way when we are in a position to help others, we can empathize. also bro God has gotten me past getting a dream car and other dram things. i had it priced out, a black on black bmw 760li, $130,000 with every package on it...let me tell you that's a load off...and it frees up a whole lot to benefit the Body.
bless God that HE is indeed into taking care of us even if we don't get from a to b in the most luxurious auto!
The hardest thing for me to learn, to always be learning, are the ways of God's heart and not my own. Even when light enters our hearts, there is still plenty of darkness there...and compared to Christ's light we are still darkened brutes. To mention the prayers of the Puritans again...Let me know that the work of prayer is to bring my will to thine and that without this it is folly to pray. When I try to bring thy will to mine it is to command Christ, to be above him and wiser then He.
bro Mike i feel you there too. when we got started with this whole business, i had my own ideas, i didn't know the extent of them until God flushed it all out, it's taken a year! to learn His desires in all things is probably the hardest thing for us all because we have to yield what we hold dear in exchange for something else. but bless God He gives us grace enough to seek His will and lay down our own.
bless you bro mike, this has been most uplifing and i have learned much from God through you.
we are programmed to be consumers
We simply must not be programmed by anything but the Bible. Not to ourselves nor to our children ( our second selves:} ), be not consumed by the lies of corporate America/the world, but consume the Word of God.
" ...godliness and contentment is great gain.."
"..love not the world and the things that are in the world..."
Do we want to gain? Be content!
No worries, it is never too late to re-organize one's finance, one step at a time, little by little. As Christians, we ought live by the instructions and precepts of the Bible pertaining money issues. The WORD of GOD gives us power when we adhere by IT. Power to deprogram ourselves, and to be unaffected by this world's lies. Power to be content, and to hold contempt to what this world has to offer.
I can testify to this, as a tax accountant, reading Proverbs day in and day out for over 20 years has helped me with financial matters a great deal. The wisdom laid out in these 31 chapters is incredible. One often prays to God for wisdom, that's great, but it is even greater to learn practical wisdom from the Bible, especially from the wisdom books such as Psalms, Proverbs and Ecclesiastes.
Yes, do familiarize with them, meditate on them, 'brainwashed'by them, let the Word of God be our financial advisors, and guide in our daily living, not TD Waterhouse,not Fidelity.. daily..:) May God bless you and watch over us when we draw near to Him with our all.
Brother Mike wrote:
Like the Puritans prayed "There is no wrath like the wrath of being governed by my own lusts for my own ends."
mamaluk wrote:
We simply must not be programmed by anything but the Bible.
To understand these two precepts, for them to become what we hold to as truth, is truly a liberating experience.
I too struggle...we sold everything in California and moved to Pennsylvania. We have one car payment and that is all. I got a new job which pays half of what I earned in California. We have lots of money in the bank. And we rent a 1100 square foot house in Hershey Pa. This home satisfies all our needs. It is a well built brick home. I can walk to work. We don't have to pay taxes. We don't have to maintain or improve the home. We don't even have to pay for heating oil. Unfortunately, the temptation to purchase a 'fancy house" is strong.
To pray as the Puritans did, to call on the name of our Lord, that is the only way.
In Christ
Jeff
ironman wrote:
''bro american capitalism has brought about an enslavement to a system the enemy cleverly designed to keep us from focusing on God. and it has worked well. however what the enemy meant for evil God will turn around for the good of those He has called so God gets the last laugh!
Sorry, Cant really agree with you.
Its the spirit that things are done in that must be correct. Read the Book of Proverbs.
Nothing wrong with Capitalism if the businessman LOVES his neighbour!
he wont rip him off
nor lie
nor destroy his dignity
God Bless Christian Capitalists for leavening the community with righteous activity!
I have been a business man [ heating] for 30 years ,[ retired now], and God has blessed me and my customers- it's been a great mission field for Jesus
yrs
J
Well, one should not be ignorant of the devil's methods of ensnaring people in his many false religions based on lies ..
such as:
Bahai
The Bahai faith is often included in the "New Age" family of cults.
Historically, it is a sect or cult derived from Islam. Yet like many new age groups, it attempts to absorb Christianity by claiming that Christianity was a phase in the overall evolution of true spirituality and faith. It tries to build on Christianity with repeated references to Jesus and the ethical teachings of the Christian faith.
The belief of the Shi'ite division of Islam is that a "messiah" or Imam will arise at the end time and usher in a world of peace.
In 1844, Mizra Ali Muhammed was convinced that God had called him to a similar ministry as John the Baptist. He assumed the title "the Bab" which means "the gate." Some feel that he actually believed he was the Imam.
His charisma and message began to draw many. J.E. Esslemont writes of the Bab, "The Bab was the manifestation of God, the Founder of an independent religion," (Baha'u'llah and the New Era, 1980, p. 14).
The Bab and his followers were horribly persecuted by Moslems and he was martyred in 1850. In 1863, Mizra Husayn Ali, a prominent follower of the new faith, announced that, "He was the one whose coming had been foretold by the Bab-the Chosen of God, the Promised One of all the prophets," (Ibid,pp.23,30)....snip
watchman.org
I have come out of cults and am thankfull for the prayers of others who see the lie that ensnares
yrs
J
sorry- this was for another thread!
cant seem to move it
re
by groh_frog on 2005/12/28 10:05:33
I completely disagree with studying false religions to learn more about the world.''
Well, one should not be ignorant of the devil's methods of ensnaring people in his many false religions based on lies ..
such as:
Bahai
The Bahai faith is often included in the "New Age" family of cults.
Historically, it is a sect or cult derived from Islam. Yet like many new age groups, it attempts to absorb Christianity by claiming that Christianity was a phase in the overall evolution of true spirituality and faith. It tries to build on Christianity with repeated references to Jesus and the ethical teachings of the Christian faith.
The belief of the Shi'ite division of Islam is that a "messiah" or Imam will arise at the end time and usher in a world of peace.
In 1844, Mizra Ali Muhammed was convinced that God had called him to a similar ministry as John the Baptist. He assumed the title "the Bab" which means "the gate." Some feel that he actually believed he was the Imam.
His charisma and message began to draw many. J.E. Esslemont writes of the Bab, "The Bab was the manifestation of God, the Founder of an independent religion," (Baha'u'llah and the New Era, 1980, p. 14).
The Bab and his followers were horribly persecuted by Moslems and he was martyred in 1850. In 1863, Mizra Husayn Ali, a prominent follower of the new faith, announced that, "He was the one whose coming had been foretold by the Bab-the Chosen of God, the Promised One of all the prophets," (Ibid,pp.23,30)....snip
watchman.org
I have come out of cults and am thankfull for the prayers of others who see the lie that ensnares
yrs
J
_________________
http://www.biblicalzionist.com/index.htm
groh_frog wrote:
I completely disagree with studying false religions to learn more about the world.Understand this: If Jesus was who he says he was, then he is the only way to God (Jn 14:6). If that's true, then all other "paths" are false, and as he put it, are a part of the wide road.
To be more blunt, they are not only "askew", they are lies from Hell, and that's where they're taking people! To study the lies of Satan in hopes of becoming more worldly is playing with fire. I've said before that there's a place for an apologist to know the ways of the enemy, but to learn from the enemy in hopes of gaining what you might view as some of his better qualities is not right. To quote Ravenhill summerizing what Paul said of the world, "It's antichrist from the word 'Go'".
As for me and my house, we shall serve the Lord. Don't get involved in the false things of this world.
Grace and Peace...
Brother John...
Hi, I agree with you in terms of working for a living and representing the glory of Christ to those whom you serve. If one searches the Scriptures, we find that there is an economy in which God provides for His children.
In terms of capitalism, is this type of economy founded on world principles or kingdom principles?
In Christ
Jeff
Brother John wrote:
I have come out of cults and am thankfull for the prayers of others who see the lie that ensnares
yrs
False religions is one of the many devices Satan uses to destroy the masses. I am glad that you are now my brother...
In my own life in Scriptures, I have found that the more I feed on them the more clearly I can distinguish the lie that comes from the evil one. As you have pointed out, all these new age thrusts are deceptive. Even within the Christian world, there are division and strife because of the teachings of men can stray ever so slightly from the one Truth. We all miss the mark, we only see dimly, but there will come a time when we will see Christ.
So I believe that God intended for us to maybe begin with the sowing and watering of men. Yet, according to the New Covenant, He has given us the most perfect way to come to a greater, a clearer understanding of Him and kingdom. So I always preach that one must live in the Scriptures. It is only there, where one finds the liberty and treasure that transforms what we once hoped for in the things of this world for the things of Christ.
God Bless
Jeff
JohnJames4 wrote:
Sorry, Cant really agree with you.
Its the spirit that things are done in that must be correct. Read the Book of Proverbs.
Nothing wrong with Capitalism if the businessman LOVES his neighbour!
he wont rip him off
nor lie
nor destroy his dignity
God Bless Christian Capitalists for leavening the community with righteous activity!
I have been a business man [ heating] for 30 years ,[ retired now], and God has blessed me and my customers- it's been a great mission field for Jesus
yrs
J
bro JohnJames
i agree, things must be done in the right spirit,but look at the majority of how business is conducted. it seems to me you're more of an exception. not all businessmen have been as yourself.
another thing also to remember is that for the most part the Faith has been compartmentalized as opposed to being a thing which touches the believer's whole life and this has manifested itself in all facets of our society, politics, business, relationships with others and so on. so as a result we see much corruption, scandal etc.
how many businessmen really love their neighbour?
how many businessmen don't rip off their neighbour?
how many businessmen lie?
how many businessmen destroy people's dignity?
again all this is a consequence of our own Godlessness as a nation and people. if we let our Faith touch every area of our lives like it ought, we wouldn't hear of things like ENRON, TYCO and so on because God wouls keep us straight there. most people in business are trained by the world's universities and so on in the ways of the world. there is a way to do things in the world and a way to do things in the SPirit, most subscribe to the former. that is what i'm getting at.
bless God though that not all businesspeople are like that because we have an example of a Godly businessman in you bro!
In another time in Scripture we find another generation judged by God...
Micah 1:
6 \t“Therefore I will make Samaria a heap of ruins in the field,
\tPlaces for planting a vineyard;
\tI will pour down her stones into the valley,
\tAnd I will uncover her foundations.
7 \tAll her carved images shall be beaten to pieces,
\tAnd all her pay as a harlot shall be burned with the fire;
\tAll her idols I will lay desolate,
\tFor she gathered it from the pay of a harlot,
\tAnd they shall return to the pay of a harlot.”
Micah 2:
1 Woe to those who devise iniquity,
\tAnd work out evil on their beds!
\tAt morning light they practice it,
\tBecause it is in the power of their hand.
2 \tThey covet fields and take them by violence,
\tAlso houses, and seize them.
\tSo they oppress a man and his house,
\tA man and his inheritance.
Micah 3:
1 And I said:
\t“Hear now, O heads of Jacob,
\tAnd you rulers of the house of Israel:
\tIs it not for you to know justice?
2 \tYou who hate good and love evil;
\tWho strip the skin from My people,
\tAnd the flesh from their bones;
3 \tWho also eat the flesh of My people,
\tFlay their skin from them,
\tBreak their bones,
\tAnd chop them in pieces
\tLike meat for the pot,
\tLike flesh in the caldron.”
Micah 5:
10 \tAre there yet the treasures of wickedness
\tIn the house of the wicked,
\tAnd the short measure that is an abomination?
11 \tShall I count pure those with the wicked scales,
\tAnd with the bag of deceitful weights?
12 \tFor her rich men are full of violence,
\tHer inhabitants have spoken lies,
\tAnd their tongue is deceitful in their mouth.
What comes to mind when the Scriptures speak of "short measure", "wicked scales", and "bag of deceitful weights?"
What was the source of corruption in that generation?
What idols did they have?
What was the nature of their wickedness?
In Christ
Jeff
Here is a looong article, sorry,
The Islamic Tide
by J. R. Nyquist
The Muslim “street” in the Middle East has a saying. “First comes Saturday, then comes Sunday.” According to Brigitte Gabriel, a survivor of the Muslim terror in Lebanon, this saying means, “first we fight the Jews, then we come for the Christians.” It must be admitted, of course, that Muslims haven’t waited for Israel’s defeat to begin attacking Christians.” Once upon a time the peaceful Christians of Lebanon built a democracy with open borders in the Middle East, and the Muslims destroyed it. They couldn’t help themselves. One day they began murdering Christians until the country was no longer recognizable. Christians fled the rubble of their homes. The same situation is now repeating itself in Iraq. The New York Times Headline story on October 17 was, “Iraq’s Christian Minority Flees As Extremist Threat Worsens.” As reported in the Times, Christian churches in Iraq are regularly bombed, Christians are assassinated, priests are kidnapped and beheaded, and hundreds of thousands of Christians have fled their homes and abandoned their businesses.
According to the Times, “The last Iraqi Census, in 1987, counted 1.4 million Christians….” Some Christian authorities say that only 600,000 remain in the country today. With Christians being assassinated, with churches being bombed, what choice do Christians have? In Iraq, under a Muslim majority, democracy signifies nothing more than the unleashing of Islamic gangs that authorities either cannot or will not control. While the neo-communists and their useful idiots around the world decry U.S. war crimes against Muslims, the Muslims have been perpetrating crimes against Christians. And don’t imagine the U.S. military has intervened to save the Christians. The American military is weak because it is governed by political correctness. The commander-in-chief has already declared that Islam is “a religion of peace.” American military commanders must therefore be careful and avoid any religious conflict, though that is precisely the conflict they are in. Muslims may hate and kill Christians in Iraq, but American soldiers must refrain from hating and avoid any killing of Muslims. The idea is to arm the Muslims, and give them a democratic government. The Bush administration will never consider the possibility that many of those they have armed and empowered are implicated in the country’s religious violence. That is to say, the Iraqi police and security services are more likely to work against Western values in Iraq than to support them. (By “Western values” we include the core values that make democracy possible in a country.) If anyone should doubt what has already occurred in Lebanon, what has been happening in Iraq, and what is ready to overwhelm Arab Christians on the West Bank, they ought to watch Brigitte Gabriel’s documentary video on Islam’s war against Middle East Christians. Here is the very ground of Muslim democracy, exposed for the barren desert it is. If democracy is possible to all races and peoples, it is yet impossible under the banner of at least one religion. For Islam democracy can only signify religious domination over non-Muslims. That this is incompatible with democracy helps to explain in part the failure of President Bush’s policy. As long as President Bush continues to credit Islam with values and ideals entirely inconsistent with the teachings of the Koran, his administration will continue down the path of oblivion.
America and Britain invaded Iraq to free the people from a totalitarian regime. The invader did not win the gratitude of the country’s Muslims, who quickly set up their own militias and armed gangs. Through laxity and misunderstanding, in an effort to win over the Muslim population, the occupying powers wanted to give freedom of action to the Muslims so they could govern themselves. What followed was merely the logical consequence of an absurd policy adopted out of ignorance. Herein lies the impotence of the supposed occupying power and its sham occupation and the sham democracy it aspires to nurture. There has been no Christian crusade in Iraq, no attempt to suppress the Muslims or convert them by the irresistible power of the U.S. and British forces. Irony of ironies, the invasion of Iraq best serves al Qaeda and the fanatic Islamist regime in Iran. The American and British forces uncorked fanatics who were previously bottled up by that wicked but effective dictator, Saddam Hussein. His methods were evil, but he nonetheless governed a backward religion whose ideology is hardly compatible with the construction of a prosperous modern country. From all this we can see that the West’s political leaders have got it wrong. “Whether motivated by naïve wishful thinking or rigid political correctness,” wrote Brigitte Gabriel, “they assert that Islam is a ‘moderate,’ ‘tolerant,’ ‘peaceful’ religion that has been hijacked by ‘extremists.’ They ignore the repeated calls to jihad … emanating from the government-controlled mosques of so-called moderate Islamic countries such as Egypt, Pakistan, and Indonesia. They refuse to accept that in the Muslim world, extreme is mainstream.”
The West believes in commerce and trade. Everyone can get rich if everyone gets along. So why shouldn’t we all get along? Enmity is obsolete, say the Western businessmen. War is counterproductive and wasteful. Borders should be open, because trade is the path to a good life. Armies should be small because large armies are expensive and cut into a country’s standard of living. The desire to conquer, to inflict death and destruction on enemies seems entirely irrational. To those motivated by money and the good things promised by economic freedom, the war system of the religious fanatic is sheer lunacy. But from the standpoint of the religious fanatic, economic freedom is lunacy because its creed of tolerance signifies surrender to alien ideas and “outsiders.” In the last analysis there can be no agreement, no compromise between those who fight for freedom and those who fight for the triumph of Islam. But the West is slow to understand this reality.
“Even after 9/11,” wrote Gabriel in her book, “there are those who say that we must ‘engage’ our terrorist enemies, that we must ‘address their grievances.’ Their grievance is our freedom of religion. Their grievance is our democratic process. Islamic religious authorities and terrorist leaders repeatedly state that they will destroy the United States and Western civilization. Unless we take them at their word, and defend ourselves, they will succeed.” Sadly, there is no arguing with the logic of Gabriel’s analysis. As she explains in her book, the Christians of the Middle East mistook their Muslim neighbors. In Lebanon, she noted, “Prosperity enabled the various communities and factions to suppress their ancient hatreds enough to tolerate each other, but differences in cultural standards, values, and customs between the Christian and Muslim communities may have made conflict inevitable.”
Prosperity enables a society to cover up its internal divisions – both religious and ideological. Prosperity masks the warning signs and symptoms. When prosperity is removed, conflict may begin. And those who are slow to understanding the cleavages, to grasp where the battle lines are drawn may be destroyed and uprooted suddenly, unexpectedly. When prosperity crumbles the spoiled child is unleashed to vent his violent, selfish urges. The religious fanatic may attack those of other faiths. The Bolshevik and the Nazi may be counted on to fight for the transformation of society according to the dictates of class or race hatred. This is what the breakdown of modern society amounts to. Look at Weimar Germany and identify the dynamic. Then look at America today. Ignorant people say that totalitarianism has already arrived, but they have mistaken a few minor probing actions and incursions for the main event. Just wait until the bottom drops out of the U.S. economy. Wait until the left is fully empowered to decry the “failure of capitalism.” The Muslims will joyously congratulate their own patience, thanking Allah for what they will term “deliverance.” And then the real destruction is sure to begin.
In the known instances of modern totalitarianism, the Bolshevik, the Nazi and the Islamist share a common anti-Jewish, anti-democratic and anti-American set of themes. The Nazis under Hitler killed six million Jews, and the communists under Stalin killed 600,000 for good measure. Today the Muslim clergy preaches the extermination of Israel, the killing of millions of Jews. As reported by Paul Sperry, in a book titled Infiltration: How Muslim Spies and Subversives Have Penetrated Washington, we hear of Muslim clergy preaching the destruction of the Jews and the takeover of America right here in the United States. The native laxness and permissiveness of American society has long nurtured enemies within. Totalitarian thinking thrives in America – in the socialism of the university faculties, in the fanaticism of the growing Muslim minority, in the angry racism of White supremacists, Mexican nationalists and black militants. A rainbow of many-colored hatreds is brewing beneath the surface, involving a small but growing number of empty individuals who have lost their way, forgetting the spiritual richness of Western culture and its unmatched record of prosperity. These have united under various banners – Islamic, communist, anti-war, anti-Bush.
The communists have long predicted the collapse of capitalism, and soon they will enjoy a run of victories. We only have to consider how communist ideas have captivated a leading section of the Democratic Party. It is naïve to imagine that American communists gave up their fanatic beliefs because of Moscow’s retreat. People do not forfeit their faith because the news from abroad is contrary to expectations. Faith in ideology continues even if the power of the believer is eclipsed by tactical retreat in Eastern Europe, where the KGB and its sister agencies exchanged open, targetable structures for deceptive invisible structures. The recent outcome of the Bulgarian elections tells the story, as the country’s president and presumptive winner of the next round of balloting had a secret police code name. In ungary we see the celebration of the 50th anniversary of the revolt against Soviet occupation disrupted by riots in which the rioters cry out against the continuation of communist power under a social democratic façade. In Moscow a KGB officer presides over the ongoing murder of journalists, and open assaults against the staff of pro-democracy activist and former world chess champion Garry Kasparov.
The Nazis and other racist groups are also active, and ready to make an appeal. Like the leftists and Islamists they fulminate against Israel and Bush. They are ready to make common cause with the enemies of America because they seek to destabilize the country as a prelude to winning over the white population to their ideology. Timothy McVeigh was only a precursor, inspired by the white separatist ideas of The Turner Diaries. Others are sure to follow if America’s prosperity is compromised.
Returning to Sperry’s account of radical Islam in America, the Islamists are not simply a force in the Middle East, but a growing force for agitation and terror here on U.S. soil. According to the Brooklyn Islamic leader, Imam Siraj Wahhaj: “In time, this so-called democracy will crumble, and there will be nothing.” What happened to the Christians in Lebanon was one victory in an anticipated string of Islamist victories. While feigning “shock and disgust” over the events of 9/11, the Islamic Society of North America’s Muzammil H. Siddiqi contradicted his “moderate” image when he stated: “We must not forget that Allah’s rules have to be established in all lands, and all our efforts should lead to that direction.” Sheikh Hamza Yusuf, a charismatic Muslim teacher in Northern California, suggested that Islam was hijacked on 9/11. But on Sept. 9, 2001, he told a group of Muslims of America’s impending fate. “The reason,” he said, “is that this country stands condemned. It stands condemned like Europe stood condemned because of what it did. And lest people forget, Europe suffered two world wars after conquering the Muslim lands.” In reaction to these statements Paul Sperry wrote, “Surely a California-born U.S. citizen raised by a Catholic father and Greek Orthodox mother would never wish such a fate on America.” Then Sperry quotes a speech in which Yusuf said, “I am a citizen of this country not by choice but by birth. I reside in this country not by choice but by conviction in attempting to spread the message of Islam in this country. I became Muslim in part because I did not believe in the false gods of this society, whether we call them Jesus or democracy or the Bill of Rights or any other element….” The black American convert to Islam, Ihsan Bagby stated: “Ultimately we [Muslims] can never be full citizens of this country because there is no way we can be fully committed to the institutions and ideologies of this country.” Deceptively portraying himself as a moderate, founder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations Omar M Ahmad stated: “Islam isn’t in America to be equal to any other faith but to become dominant. The Quran should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth.”
The problem of American policy in Iraq, of Islamic hatred and violence, is not simply a problem of one region. It is the problem of France, where a dozen policemen are injured in clashes with Islamic youth on a daily basis. It is the problem of Germany, where Islamic youth intimidate school administrators and non-Muslims. It is the problem of England, where al Qaeda has spread its tentacles throughout the city of London. If America retreats from Iraq the Muslims will take it as a sign, and they will advance. The strength of Islamic fanaticism will increase. “First comes Saturday, then comes Sunday.”
(end of article)
There are two sources for this strife according to the author....what are those sources?
In Christ
Jeff
In the last analysis there can be no agreement, no compromise between those who fight for freedom and those who fight for the triumph of Islam. But the West is slow to understand this reality.
Bro Rookie,
I've been following your articles for a good while now, and to be honest, I'm a little surprised you posted this article. The author seems to be advocating earthly engagement rather then spiritual detachment...if I didn't know better I'd say you didn't want to see our homeland destroyed by Islam.
As citizens of another kingdom why should we care if there is a cultural and even nuclear fatwa in America?
(edit: My question is not as rhetorical as it might sound. I am curious how different people resolve this tension for themselves...)
MC
you asked:
As citizens of another kingdom why should we care if there is a cultural and even nuclear fatwa in America?
plenty.
This is our earthly homeland, and its a land, where you can buy a Bible, buy a Koran,buy buddhist tomes, buy L. Ron Hubbards stuff, you can make a church out of storfront, a mosque in a mall, a sweat lodge on a hill, and aint nobody gonna come kill you for that. On Saturday, you can enter a synagogue to worship, on Sunday you can either go to church, or you can get drunk in a gay bar, and you wont get killed for either, thats called freedom.
in this nation, there are so few of our young men and women willing to volunteer and serve to protect these freedoms...so few. As a 17 year old volunteer in the Navy, I applaud and identify with these fellow servicemen, brave kids.
time to sell the cloak and buy the sword, and I am so sick of chicken hawks like Dick Cheney and George Bush Jr, and Ken Mehlman running the works I wish I could toss them all out right now. The only Republicans I think are worth anything, to lead this country IN WAR, are John McCain and Colin Powell.
and I'll tell you what, after watching what Corker and Mehlman pulled on a good man like Harold Ford with that BLATANTLY rascist ad in Tenn, I'm so white hot, I cant even begin to tell you.....doing negative rascist ads in wartime is sick.
When is this nation going to wake up and realize we are in the fight of our lives?
Let me ask you this: What do you think King David would do about the jihadi's?
in return, you might ask what would Jesus do?
pray for our enemies, and then sell the cloak and buy a sword, its that bad.
Whats the alternative? Jacobs field nuked with 40,000 fellow Americans inside it?
Tehran is Berlin, and we might be seeing a return to the draft.
bartle
in return, you might ask what would Jesus do?
pray for our enemies, and then sell the cloak and buy a sword, its that bad.
This is a clear response to the question. Thanks for not dancing around.
MC
These are just some of my loose thoughts on the article Rookie posted, "The Islamic Tide." Its not a response to the general theme of the article.
The opening paragraph of "The Islamic Tide" reminds me a little of Acts Chapter 8, except instead of Saul of Tarsus, its extreme Islamists doing the persecuting.
"Here is the very ground of Muslim democracy, exposed for the barren desert it is."
And American hubris to think that it could be imposed from outside.
"America and Britain invaded Iraq to free the people from a totalitarian regime."
Let us not fall to easily for such propaganda - American support for war was whipped up, on the heals of 9/11, to the spurious
claims that Saddam was a danger to his neighbors and to America, and that he possessed WMD. Only after it started to become clear that Iraq did not have WMD, did the rhetoric of freeing Iraqis from a tyrannical despot become the central slogan.
"Totalitarian thinking thrives in America – in the socialism of the university faculties, in the fanaticism of the growing Muslim minority, in the angry racism of White supremacists, Mexican nationalists and black militants."
She forgot to include the extreme right wing element a.k.a The Bush/Cheney cabal. Anybody hear about the demise of habeas corpus. The eerie silence to this developement here in America is a little unsettling. Bush swore to protect the constitution...
"The American and British forces uncorked fanatics who were previously bottled up by that wicked but effective dictator, Saddam Hussein."
Not entirely true if true at all. Men and women who were otherwise 'moderate' and generally against terror, have gravitated toward those more extreme elements due in part for sympathy to those they believe will liberate Iraq from America - and crossed the threshold into becomming terrorist themselves.
"Wait until the left is fully empowered to decry the “failure of capitalism.”"
Is she kidding me?? Is she talking about the liberals here in America?? The liberals that are in power??
"Timothy McVeigh was only a precursor, inspired by the white separatist ideas of The Turner Diaries."
Inspired also by the Wako debacle. Extend this idea out to Islamists, and you can see that many are inspired by America's foreign policy in the Middle East not to mention our presence there, and not simply because they hate our freedom.
"If America retreats from Iraq the Muslims will take it as a sign, and they will advance. The strength of Islamic fanaticism will increase."
Hold on - were terrorist activities more prevalent in Iraq before or after American presence. America helped stir up the hornets nest in Iraq. Before America invaded, its own Top Generals, before congress, declared that an Islamic uprising was highly probable, that a civil war was all but inevitable. Some of those generals are no longer there. Cheney, in response, said "i believe we will be greeted as liberators." The failure of this administration is incalcuable.
Why did America concentrate all its energy and resources in Iraq, instead of Afghanistan?? Nahh, oil couldn't be a reason. Cheney himself said - "The American way of life is nonnegotiable"
And i feel many Christians may have confused the American way and its ideals of life with the way of Christianity.
As to American culture, sorry to sound so pessimistic, but i feel its living off the residue of Christianity, which was so influential in America up until the last century. In my view, its in terminal decline and the Church need not prop it up, but instead just be the Church - the holy nation.
These are just some of my thoughts, not fully fleshed out
God Bless
Ah I'm always out of step it seems...
I try to gird myself up for the big apocalypse that is to come but..
I don't know about the rest of you brethren, but my heart is hurting these days. Maybe I'm just a buttercup because I can't stomach the fear and hate in our own nation...let alone in the other nations. In the end let the Muslims hate me and the whole world for all I care...I simply don't see a way to abide in Christ and to match their hatred in kind. The mere thought leaves me feeling seperated from God. It's a tough spot for a bible-belt conservative like myself...I guess I'll just have to wear another label.
Or perhaps I am just having spiritual allergic reactions to the political season we are in. We've really done it this time...haven't we.
Well, to all the precious saints in fellowship on this site, know that the Lord has unfailing love for all of you. God will keep us in his hands dear brethren.
"say to those with fearful hearts,
"Be strong, do not fear;
your God will come,
he will come with vengeance;
with divine retribution
he will come to save you."
And a highway will be there;
it will be called the Way of Holiness.
The unclean will not journey on it;
it will be for those who walk in that Way; wicked fools will not go about on it.
No lion will be there, nor will any ferocious beast get up on it; they will not be found there. But only the redeemed will walk there, and the ransomed of the LORD will return. They will enter Zion with singing; everlasting joy will crown their heads. Gladness and joy will overtake them, and sorrow and sighing will flee away.
Ever notice how holiness and love seem to be interchangable,..once you understand more about them? This is the hour to abide in both brethren.
MC
October 29, 2006
Islam, Terror and the Second Nuclear Age
By NOAH FELDMAN
I.
For nearly 50 years, worries about a nuclear Middle East centered on Israel. Arab leaders resented the fact that Israel was the only atomic power in the region, a resentment heightened by America’s tacit approval of the situation. But they were also pretty certain that Israel (which has never explicitly acknowledged having nuclear weapons) would not drop the bomb except as a very last resort. That is why Egypt and Syria were unafraid to attack Israel during the October 1973 Yom Kippur War. “Israel will not be the first country in the region to use nuclear weapons,” went the Israelis’ coy formula. “Nor will it be the second.”
Today the nuclear game in the region has changed. When the Arab League’s secretary general, Amr Moussa, called for “a Middle East free of nuclear weapons” this past May, it wasn’t Israel that prompted his remarks. He was worried about Iran, whose self-declared ambition to become a nuclear power has been steadily approaching realization.
The anti-Israel statements of the Iranian president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, coupled with Iran’s support for Hezbollah and Hamas, might lead you to think that the Arab states would welcome Iran’s nuclear program. After all, the call to wipe the Zionist regime from the map is a longstanding cliché of Arab nationalist rhetoric. But the interests of Shiite non-Arab Iran do not always coincide with those of Arab leaders. A nuclear Iran means, at the very least, a realignment of power dynamics in the Persian Gulf. It could potentially mean much more: a historic shift in the position of the long-subordinated Shiite minority relative to the power and prestige of the Sunni majority, which traditionally dominated the Muslim world. Many Arab Sunnis fear that the moment is ripe for a Shiite rise. Iraq’s Shiite majority has been asserting the right to govern, and the lesson has not been lost on the Shiite majority in Bahrain and the large minorities in Lebanon and Saudi Arabia. King Abdullah of Jordan has warned of a “Shiite crescent” of power stretching from Iran to Lebanon via Iraq and (by proxy) Syria.
But geopolitics is not the only reason Sunni Arab leaders are rattled by the prospect of a nuclear Iran. They also seem to be worried that the Iranians might actually use nuclear weapons if they get them. A nuclear attack on Israel would engulf the whole region. But that is not the only danger: Sunnis in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere fear that the Iranians might just use a nuclear bomb against them. Even as Iran’s defiance of the United States and Israel wins support among some Sunnis, extremist Sunnis have been engaging in the act of takfir, condemning all Shiites as infidels. On the ground in Iraq, Sunni takfiris are putting this theory into practice, aiming at Shiite civilians and killing them indiscriminately. Shiite militias have been responding in kind, and massacres of Sunni civilians are no longer isolated events.
Adding the nuclear ingredient to this volatile mix will certainly produce an arms race. If Iran is going to get the bomb, its neighbors will have no choice but to keep up. North Korea, now protected by its own bomb, has threatened proliferation — and in the Middle East it would find a number of willing buyers. Small principalities with huge U.S. Air Force bases, like Qatar, might choose to rely on an American protective umbrella. But Saudi Arabia, which has always seen Iran as a threatening competitor, will not be willing to place its nuclear security entirely in American hands. Once the Saudis are in the hunt, Egypt will need nuclear weapons to keep it from becoming irrelevant to the regional power balance — and sure enough, last month Gamal Mubarak, President Mubarak’s son and Egypt’s heir apparent, very publicly announced that Egypt should pursue a nuclear program.
Given the increasing instability of the Middle East, nuclear proliferation there is more worrisome than almost anywhere else on earth. As nuclear technology spreads, terrorists will enjoy increasing odds of getting their hands on nuclear weapons. States — including North Korea — might sell bombs or give them to favored proxy allies, the way Iran gave Hezbollah medium-range rockets that Hezbollah used this summer during its war with Israel. Bombing through an intermediary has its advantages: deniability is, after all, the name of the game for a government trying to avoid nuclear retaliation.
Proliferation could also happen in other ways. Imagine a succession crisis in which the Saudi government fragments and control over nuclear weapons, should the Saudis have acquired them, falls into the hands of Saudi elites who are sympathetic to Osama bin Laden, or at least to his ideas. Or Al Qaeda itself could purchase ready-made bombs, a feat technically much less difficult than designing nuclear weapons from scratch. So far, there are few nuclear powers from whom such bombs can be directly bought: as of today, only nine nations in the world belong to the nuclear club. But as more countries get the bomb, tracing the seller will become harder and harder, and the incentive to make a sale will increase.
II.
The prospect of not just one Islamic bomb, but many, inevitably concentrates the mind on how Muslims — whether Shiite or Sunni — might use their nuclear weapons. In the mid-1980’s, when Pakistan became the first Islamic state to go nuclear, it was still possible to avoid asking the awkward question of whether there was something distinctive about Islamic belief or practice that made possession of nuclear technology especially worrisome. Most observers assumed that Islamic states could be deterred from using nuclear force just like other states: by the threat of massive retaliation.
During the last two decades, however, there has been a profound change in the way violence is discussed and deployed in the Muslim world. In particular, we have encountered the rise of suicide bombing. In historic terms, this development is new and unexpected. Suicide bombing has no traditional basis in Islam. As a technique, it was totally absent from the successful Afghan jihad against the Soviet Union. Although suicide bombing as a tool of stateless terrorists was dreamed up a hundred years ago by the European anarchists immortalized in Joseph Conrad’s “Secret Agent,” it became a tool of modern terrorist warfare only in 1983, when Shiite militants blew up the U.S. Marine barracks in Lebanon.
Since then, suicide bombing has spread through the Muslim world with astonishing speed and on a surprising course. The vocabulary of martyrdom and sacrifice, the formal videotaped preconfession of faith, the technological tinkering to increase deadliness — all are now instantly recognizable to every Muslim. And as suicide bombing has penetrated Islamic cultural consciousness, its list of targets has steadily expanded. First the targets were American soldiers, then mostly Israelis, including women and children. From Lebanon and Israel, the technique of suicide bombing moved to Iraq, where the targets have included mosques and shrines, and the intended victims have mostly been Shiite Iraqis. The newest testing ground is Afghanistan, where both the perpetrators and the targets are orthodox Sunni Muslims. Not long ago, a bombing in Lashkar Gah, the capital of Helmand Province, killed Muslims, including women, who were applying to go on pilgrimage to Mecca. Overall, the trend is definitively in the direction of Muslim-on-Muslim violence. By a conservative accounting, more than three times as many Iraqis have been killed by suicide bombings in the last 3 years as have Israelis in the last 10. Suicide bombing has become the archetype of Muslim violence — not just to frightened Westerners but also to Muslims themselves.
What makes suicide bombing especially relevant to the nuclear question is that, by design, it unsettles the theory of deterrence. When the suicide bomber dies in an attack, he means to send the message “You cannot stop me, because I am already willing to die.” To make the challenge to deterrence even more stark, a suicide bomber who blows up a market or a funeral gathering in Iraq or Afghanistan is willing to kill innocent bystanders, including fellow Muslims. According to the prevailing ideology of suicide bombing, these victims are subjected to an involuntary martyrdom that is no less glorious for being unintentional.
So far, the nonstate actors who favor suicide bombing have limited their collateral damage to those standing in the way of their own bombs. But the logic of sacrificing other Muslims against their own wills could be extended to the national level. If an Islamic state or Islamic terrorists used nuclear weapons against Israel, the United States or other Western targets, like London or Madrid, the guaranteed retaliation would cost the lives of thousands and maybe millions of Muslims. But following the logic of suicide bombing, the original bomber might reason that those Muslims would die in God’s grace and that others would live on to fight the jihad. No state in the Muslim world has openly embraced such a view. But after 9/11, we can no longer treat the possibility as fanciful.
Raising the question of Islamic belief and the bomb, however, is not a substitute for strategic analysis of the rational interests of Islamic governments. Like other states, Islamic states act on the basis of ordinary power politics as much as or more than on the basis of religious motivation. Pakistan, which tested a series of warheads in 1998, at the height of tensions with India, has not used its atomic power as a tool of the faithful in a global jihad. The proliferation operation spearheaded by the nuclear scientist — and sometime Pakistani national hero — Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan appears to have been based on a combination of national interest and greed, not on religious fervor. Khan found buyers in Iran and Libya, but also in decidedly non-Islamic North Korea. (In a twist much stranger than fiction, Saddam Hussein apparently turned down the offer.)
Some observers think that Iran, too, wants the bomb primarily to improve its regional position and protect itself against regime change — not to annihilate Israel. According to this view, Iran’s nuclear push reflects a drive to what is sometimes called national greatness and might more accurately be defined as the ability of a country to thumb its nose at the United States without fear of major repercussions. A televised pageant hastily arranged to celebrate Iran’s atomic program in April of this year featured traditional Persian dancing and colorful local garb intermixed with make-believe vials of enriched uranium. To an Iranian audience accustomed to decoding official symbols, these references were nationalist, not pan-Islamic. (They were also subtly subversive of the mullahs: singing and dancing are not favored forms of expression in the clerical enclave of Qom.)
But at the same time, Ahmadinejad has emphasized Iran’s pan-Islamic aspirations to act on behalf of Muslims everywhere. An emerging nuclear power needs friends. Right now Iran wants to reduce, not promote, division between Sunnis and Shiites — and promoting broader “Islamic” interests by going after Israel is one way to lessen Sunni fears about Iran’s rise. Ahmadinejad has put his money where his mouth is, providing Hezbollah with medium-range missiles — though apparently not chemical warheads — to use against Israel. The nationalist language he has sometimes used at home may be a cover for sincerely held pan-Islamic ends — a version of the old revolutionary strategy of making nationalist claims in order to attract the support of those fellow Iranians who do not respond well to Islamist ideology. That it is convenient for Iran to emphasize Islamic unity does not mean that at least some of its leaders do not believe in it as a motivating goal.+
It is common among foreign-policy realists to suppose that a country acting on nationalist motives is easier to deter than a country moved by religious ones. There is no especially strong evidence for this assumption — plenty of nationalist regimes have done crazy things when they logically should have been deterred — but the claim has a common-sense ring to it. Nationalists care about peoples and states, which need to be alive to prosper. It is a basic tenet of nationalism that there is nothing higher than the nation-state itself, the pinnacle of a people’s self-expression. Religious thinkers, on the other hand, believe almost by definition that there is something in heaven greater than government here on earth. Under the right circumstances, they might sacrifice lives — including their own — to serve the divine will as they interpret it.
III.
We urgently need to know, then, what Islam says about the bomb. Of course there is no single answer to this question. The world’s billion-plus Muslims differ regarding many aspects of their 1,400-year-old religious tradition. Furthermore, nuclear weapons are a relatively new technology, unforeseen by the Prophet and unmentioned in the Koran. Nevertheless, contemporary Muslims are engaged in interpreting their tradition to ascertain how and when nuclear power may be used. Their writings, contained in fatwas and treatises that can be found on the Web and in print, tell a fascinating and disturbing story.
The Islamic discussion of nuclear weapons is profoundly intertwined with a parallel discussion of suicide bombing that is also taking place in the Muslim world. Suicide bombing and nuclear weapons typically kill without discrimination, murdering soldiers or civilians, men or women or children. And using nuclear force against another nuclear power can be suicidal, in the broad sense that retaliation may destroy the nation that attacked first. Beyond these commonalities is the fact that the rise of suicide bombing is driving a historic reconsideration of what might be called the Islamic ethics of violence. To consider Islam and the bomb today must thus inevitably draw us into the complex legal and political thinking of those Muslim authorities who justify the use of force.
The story starts with traditional Islamic law. The Shariah never followed the Roman adage that in war the laws are silent. Because jihad is a pillar of Islam, and because in Islam God’s word takes legal form, the classical scholars devoted considerable care to identifying the laws of jihad. In common with the just-war doctrine developed in Christian Europe, the law of jihad governed when it was permissible to fight and what means could lawfully be adopted once warfare had begun. There were basic ground rules about who was fair game. “A woman was found killed in one of the battles fought by the Messenger of God,” runs a report about the Prophet Muhammad considered reliable and binding by the Muslim scholars. “So the Messenger of God forbade the killing of women and children.” This report was universally understood to prohibit the deliberate killing of noncombatant women and children. Some scholars interpreted it to mean that anyone incapable of warfare should be protected and so extended the ban to the elderly, the infirm and even male peasants, who as a rule did not fight. Muslims living among the enemy were also out of bounds. These rather progressive principles were broadly accepted by the Islamic legal authorities, Sunni and Shiite alike. For well over a thousand years, no one seriously questioned them.
Such black-and-white rules were well suited to the hand-to-hand or horse-to-horse combat characteristic of limited medieval wars. A few quirky challenges did arise, and the Muslim lawyers had to deal with them. The great theologian and jurist al-Ghazali, who wrote in the 11th and 12th centuries and was widely noted for his revival of religious piety and his skepticism of secular philosophy, dealt with the problem of human shields. He ruled that if the enemy drove captured Muslims before him, the Muslim army could still fight back, even if it might mean killing some of those Muslims. The reason he gave was that “we know that the law intends minimizing killing.” There was also the catapult — precursor of artillery and air power — which was capable of sending a burning projectile into a populated city, where the resulting fire might kill women or children. Authorities differed on whether that tactic was permissible. Some disallowed the catapult when children or Muslim captives were in the city. In support, they cited a verse from the Koran that reads, “Had they been separated clearly, then We would have chastised the unbelievers among them with a painful chastisement.” According to this school of thought, the “separation” of permissible targets (i.e., non-Muslim men) from impermissible targets is the precondition for a general attack. Another school of thought, by contrast, permitted the use of the catapult regardless of collateral damage in order to serve the general interest of the Muslims.
No law can exist for a millennium without being broken, and there are scattered historical reports, mostly from Christian chroniclers, of Muslim forces acting outside the bounds of lawful jihad, without the authorization of the scholars. Men were always considered legitimate targets, and Muslim armies sometimes slaughtered them just as Muslims could be slaughtered by their enemies. Remarkably enough, though, the legal principles of jihad protecting women, children and fellow Muslims survived well into the modern era, when the secular regimes of the Muslim world began to fight according to secular ideas. The World War I Armenian genocide, which took place in the last, secularizing gasp of the declining Ottoman Empire, was the first really substantial systematic violation of the ban on killing women and children in recorded Islamic history. In the bloody 20th century, when mass exterminations took place in Europe, Africa and Asia, Muslim states had a relatively better record, marred of course by Saddam Hussein’s gassing of the Kurds. And there have been the genocidal killings in Darfur in this new century. Even these horrific events, however, were not dignified by the claim that they were permitted under the law of jihad.
IV.
The last two decades have seen a challenge to this Islamic tradition of warfare under law, a challenge driven mostly by the attempt to justify suicide bombing despite its evident inconsistency with Islamic tradition. On the subject of suicide, the Koran could hardly be clearer: “Do not kill yourselves; for surely God has been merciful to you.” Faced with this explicit text, the solution of the militant Islamist ideologues has been to avoid the category of suicide altogether and to treat the bomber as a martyr rather than as one who has taken his own life. This interpretation is not very convincing in historical terms: martyrdom classically meant that another person killed the Muslim warrior, not that he pushed the button himself. Nevertheless, many Muslims now seem to find the argument convincing. Even among rather secular Muslims, it has become standard to refer to suicide bombers as martyrs.
The killing of women, children and Muslim men, however, has proved harder to explain away as a permissible exercise of jihad. The reaction to 9/11, which has (so far) been the high-water mark of suicide bombing, illustrates the nature of the difficulty of reconciling suicide bombing with Islamic law. One problem concerns the offensive nature of the attack at a time when the United States was not at war with any Muslim entity. Offensive jihad requires the authorization of a legitimate Muslim leader, absent on 9/11. A more serious concern was the obvious reality that the 9/11 attacks were certain to kill — and did kill — women, children and Muslims, all in direct contravention of classical jihad principles. Since the whole point of 9/11 was to announce and embody jihad on the international stage, the attacks quickly became the centerpiece of a high-stakes debate about whether they did or did not qualify as legitimate acts of jihad.
In the immediate aftermath of 9/11, it was sometimes asserted in the West that there were no Muslim voices condemning the attacks. This was never true. Prominent Muslim scholars expressed their disapprobation in public arenas like television and the Internet. These included senior Sunni scholars like the grand mufti of Saudi Arabia and the head of Al-Azhar, in Egypt, nominally the flagship institution of Sunni higher learning — who gave a news conference. More popular figures, like Al Jazeera’s resident cleric, Sheik Yusuf al-Qaradawi, explained that Islam “considers the attack on innocent human beings a grave sin.” Shiite scholars also spoke out, including Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the supreme leader of Iran.
The position of the Muslim scholars and observers who condemned the 9/11 attacks was simple and consistent across the Sunni-Shiite divide: this was not jihad but an unlawful use of violence. Offensive jihad was prohibited in the absence of formal authorization by a Muslim leader. But even if the attacks could somehow be construed as defensive, the perpetrators of 9/11 broke the rules with their willingness to kill women and children. In confident and insistent tones, these critics cited the classical scholars and insisted that nothing in Islamic law could justify the tactics used by Al Qaeda. Ayatollah Muhammad Husayn Fadlallah, the Lebanese cleric whose spiritual authority is recognized by Hezbollah, gave an interview to the Beirut newspaper Al Safir in which he asserted that given their impermissible choice of targets, the 9/11 bombers were not martyrs but “merely suicides.”
At the same time, it is important to note that in 2001 few prominent Muslim scholars — the Saudi grand mufti was the main exception — condemned the use of suicide bombings in all circumstances. Fadlallah approved the attack on the U.S. Marines in 1983 and, according to the United States, played a role in ordering it. Qaradawi, whose television presence gives him reason to stay within the Islamist mainstream, distinguished the 9/11 attacks from the permissible defensive jihad of the Palestinians. He was happy to praise a God who “through his infinite wisdom ... has given the weak a weapon the strong do not have, and that is their ability to turn their bodies into bombs as Palestinians do.” Qaradawi has also repeated the common view that the killing of Israeli women is justified on the grounds that all Israelis must serve in the military, and so no Israeli is a true noncombatant: “An Israeli woman is not like women in our societies, because she is a soldier.”
The equivocation by Muslim scholars with respect to the technique of suicide bombing reflected the reality that throughout the Muslim world, Palestinian suicide bombers were by 2001 identified as martyrs dying in a just cause. This, in turn, was the natural outgrowth of the decades before suicide bombing, when Palestinian terrorists were applauded for killing Israeli civilians, including women and children. Given that embracing Palestinian suicide bombing had become a widespread social norm, it would have been essentially unthinkable for an important Muslim scholar to condemn the practice without losing his standing among Muslims worldwide. In the Islamic world, as in the U.S. Supreme Court, the legal authorities cannot get too far away from their public constituency without paying a price.
What happened, in other words, is that without the scholars paying too much attention to the question, the killing of Israeli women and children had become a kind of exception to the ordinary laws of jihad. Opportunists like bin Laden then began to widen the loophole to include new victims. With respect to the unauthorized nature of his offensive jihad, bin Laden asserted that in fact the attacks were defensive, since in his mind the U.S. was occupying the sacred soil of Saudi Arabia — just as Israel was occupying the Muslim land of Palestine. Once all of Saudi Arabia was placed on a par with the holy cities of Mecca and Medina, traditionally closed to non-Muslims, the presence of American soldiers anywhere on the Arabian Peninsula (even if their presence was with the permission of the Saudi government) could be depicted as a profanation, a violation of the Prophet’s deathbed directive to “banish the pagans from the Arabian Peninsula.”
Bin Laden was embroidering on the theories of his onetime mentor Abdullah Azzam, the intellectual godfather of Al Qaeda. Azzam was a Palestinian Islamist who made his way to Afghanistan via Saudi Arabia and established the so-called Bureau of Services to channel Arab youth into the Afghan jihad. As Azzam trod his personal path from Palestinian militancy to universal pan-Islamic jihadism, he wrote an influential treatise called “Defense of Muslim Lands.” In it, Azzam argued that not a single hand span of Muslim territory anywhere could ever be ceded to the enemy “because the land belongs to Allah and to Islam.” Though Azzam would never have acknowledged it, his account of the divine ownership of Muslim lands was probably influenced — unconsciously, to be sure — by religious-Zionist claims about the holiness of the Land of Israel.
When it came to the killing of civilians, bin Laden’s thought developed more gradually. In early pronouncements, before 9/11, he spoke as if the killing of women and children was inherently an atrocity. “Nor should one forget,” he admonished an interviewer in 1996, “the deliberate, premeditated dropping of the H bombs [sic] on cities with their entire populations of children, elderly and women, as was the case with Hiroshima and Nagasaki.” After 9/11, however, the argument changed. Now bin Laden began to suggest that American civilians were fair game. He could not argue that like Israelis, all Americans were subject to mandatory military service. Instead he proposed that because “the American people are the ones who choose their government by their own free will,” and because they “have the ability and choice to refuse the policies of their government,” attacks on American civilians were justified. Voting was now playing the role for Americans that military service played in the case of Israelis: the active step transforming civilians into fair game.
Such an appeal to collective responsibility was, however, pretty weak in Islamic legal terms. It might suffice for bin Laden’s videotaped self-justifications, and it might salve the consciences of potential jihadis hoping to join the rank and file of Al Qaeda. But it would never satisfy serious students of classical Islamic law, who found the 9/11 attacks problematic from an Islamic legal perspective.
In Saudi Arabia in particular, radical Muslim scholars with much more learning than bin Laden have sought to develop legally persuasive justifications for civilian killings. Probably the most sophisticated effort from a legal standpoint is a document titled “A Treatise on the Law of the Use of Weapons of Mass Destruction Against the Unbelievers,” written in 2003 by a brilliant Saudi dissident named Sheik Nasir bin Hamad al-Fahd. (Fahd, a theorist rather than an activist, is currently back in prison, as he has been off and on for almost a decade.) The treatise begins with the assumption that the world’s Muslims are under attack. But how are today’s Muslims supposed to defend themselves, given their military inferiority? Fahd’s response is that, if they have no other choice, they may use any means necessary — including methods that would otherwise violate the laws of jihad. “If the unbelievers can be repelled . . . only by using” weapons of mass destruction, then “their use is permissible, even if you kill them without exception.”
Lest his argument prove too much, Fahd tempers it by the claim that the Muslims fighting the jihad may not inflict disproportionately more harm on the enemy than the enemy has inflicted on them. That raises the question of the extent of American guilt. “Some Brothers have added up the number of Muslims killed directly or indirectly by [American] weapons and come up with a figure of nearly ten million,” the treatise states. This total, Fahd concludes, would authorize the use of weapons of mass destruction to kill 10 million Americans: indeed, “it would be permissible with no need for further [legal] argument.” (The number is never explained or analyzed, and you might assume that it was meant to correspond very roughly to the population of New York.)
Fahd’s arguments sit uneasily with the classical Islamic discussions of the laws of jihad. The classical Islamic law never explicitly says that women and children may be intentional targets if it is the only way to win the jihad. It does not allow violations of the law just because the enemy has broken the rules or killed many Muslims. So the treatise must fall back on whatever evidence it can muster from the classical sources that seems to modify the basic rules. The catapult rears its head and is cited as precedent for nonspecific killing. The right to fight even when Muslim hostages may be killed is brought out as proof of the permissibility of collateral damage when there is no other choice.
The legal arguments in use here are stronger than bin Laden’s makeweights, but they, too, would probably not be sufficient on their own to justify the deviation from the legal traditions of jihad wrought by today’s jihadis. The notion that it’s right because it’s necessary is doing the real work, and old-fashioned legal arguments are following along. It is no accident that the argument from necessity has been so prominent in modern Western writing about modern warfare in general and the nuclear bomb in particular. If the technology of mass destruction can be exported, why not the justification that comes with it?
Within the world of radical Islam, there are those who believe that the erosion of the laws of jihad has gone too far. There are reports of difficulty recruiting foreign candidates for suicide missions directed at Iraqi civilians. The debate about how jihad may be prosecuted is not over by any means. But it is an unavoidable fact that the classic restrictions on the killing of women, children and Muslims in jihad have been deeply undermined in the last decade.
V.
If the Islamic laws of war are under revision, or at least the subject of intense debate, what does that mean for the question of the Islamic bomb? The answer is that the expanding religious sanction for violence once thought unacceptable opens the way for new kinds of violence to be introduced and seen as legitimate in turn. First Israeli women and children became acceptable targets; then Americans; then Shiites; and now Sunnis of unstinting orthodoxy. It would seem that no one is out of bounds.
It is therefore now possible to imagine that the classical Islamic principles governing war would not be applied even by a self-consciously Islamic regime deciding when and if to detonate a nuclear device. The traditional ban on killing women, children and fellow Muslims would have gone a long way toward banning most potential uses of nuclear power by a sincerely Islamic state actor. As those prohibitions have eroded, the reassurance that might be afforded by a state’s Islamic commitments has waned.
This means that a nuclear Islamic state would be at least as willing to use its weapons as a comparable non-Islamic state. But would an Islamic state be prepared to take the jihad to the enemy even if it would result in what amounts to collective suicide through the destruction of the state and its citizens? If the leaders of Iran or some future leaders of a radicalized, nuclear Saudi Arabia shared the aspiration to martyrdom of so many young jihadis around the world, might they be prepared to attack Israel or the United States, even if the inevitable result were the martyrdom of their entire people?
The answer depends to a large degree on whether you consider Islam susceptible to the kind of apocalyptic, millennial thought that might lead whole peoples, rather than just individuals, into suicidal behavior. It is important to note that for all his talk of the war between civilizations, bin Laden has never spoken of the end of days. For him, the battle between the Muslims and the infidels is part of earthly human life, and has indeed been with us since the days of the Prophet himself. The war intensifies and lessens with time, but it is not something that occurs out of time or with the expectation that time itself will stop. Bin Laden and his sympathizers want to re-establish the caliphate and rule the Muslim world, but unlike some earlier revivalist movements within Sunni Islam, they do not declare their leader as the mahdi, or guided one, whose appearance will usher in a golden age of justice and peace to be followed by the Day of Judgment.
From this perspective, the utter destruction of civilization would be a mistake, not the fulfillment of the divine plan. Even the most radical Sunni theorists of jihad invoke a passage from the Koran according to which civilization itself — “the crops and the cattle” — must not and cannot be destroyed completely. Bin Laden might seem to have few qualms about killing millions of Americans or other Westerners. He might well use a nuclear device if he gambled that there would be no enemy for the United States to bomb in retaliation. But even he might not be prepared to unleash a global nuclear conflagration on the expectation that a better order would emerge once many millions of Muslims and infidels died. (Bin Laden has called for Muslims to acquire nuclear weapons, and in the 1990’s reportedly tried to acquire them himself — but there is little hard evidence that he has made subsequent efforts in that direction.)
With respect to Shiite eschatology, there is greater reason for concern. Iran’s Shiism is of the “Twelver” variety, so called because the 12th imam in the line of succession from the Prophet disappeared into a state of occultation — or being hidden — from which he is expected to return as the mahdi. Ayatollah Khomeini played on the messianic overtones of this belief during the Iranian revolution, in which some of his followers went so far as to hint that he might be the returning imam. Moktada al-Sadr’s Shiite militia in Iraq is called Army of the Mahdi. Recently, Iran’s president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, contributed to renewed focus on the mahdi, by saying publicly that the mission of the Islamic revolution in Iran is to pave the way for the mahdi’s return, and by visiting the mosque at Jamkaran, on the outskirts of Qom, where, according to one tradition, the vanished imam was last seen. Some reports suggest that youth religion in Iran in increasingly focused on veneration of the vanished imam.
Islam has a vision of the end of days, with wars between the faithful and the tribes of Gog and Magog (Yuj and Majuj in their Arabic incarnation). Twelver Shiism is, at its core, an eschatological faith, focused on the ultimate return of the imam-mahdi, who will restore the Shiites to their rightful place and redeem their generations of suffering. Since the vanished imam is by tradition a human who has never died, but remains in occultation, he is also believed to affect the course of events even from his hidden place. And Shiite tradition fills in the picture of the mahdi’s return with an elaborate account of signs that will herald the event, including advance messengers, earthquakes and bloodshed.
But belief in redemption — even accompanied by wars and death and the defeat of the infidels — need not translate into a present impulse to create a violent crisis that would precipitate the messianic situation. Like their Jewish counterparts, Shiite religious authorities have traditionally sought to resist speculation about the imminence of a messianic return. Shiite messianic thought is less focused than its messianic Christian counterpart on generating global crisis and letting God sort things out. Khomeini himself believed that the mahdi’s advent could be hastened — but by social justice, not by provoking war. This put him on the activist side of Shiite teaching about the mahdi, much as he was also an activist about the exercise of worldly power by the mullahs. A popular revolutionary slogan urged the imam’s coming but asserted that Khomeini would govern alongside him.
Other Shiite thinkers, by contrast, take a more fatalist stance, and prefer to believe that the mahdi’s coming cannot be hastened by human activity — a view that corresponds loosely to Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani’s belief, with regard to Iraq and elsewhere, that the clerics should not themselves govern. One small, semi-secret Iranian organization, the Hojjatiya Society, was banned and persecuted by Khomeini’s government in part for its quiescent view that the mahdi’s arrival could not be hastened.
Ahmadinejad is not the only or even the most important player in Iran’s nuclear game. The supreme leader, Ayatollah Khamenei, still makes the ultimate decisions on armaments and other matters, and there are numerous factions in the country with opposed interests and ideology and goals. Nevertheless, Ahmadinejad has in some respects succeeded in making the nuclear issue his own, and as a result his personal views about the end of days have been the subject of much speculation and innuendo, inside Iran and out. The Mideast scholar Bernard Lewis, in a recent Wall Street Journal column, hinted darkly and without much evidence that Ahmadinejad might be planning a nuclear attack on Israel for the Night of Power (this year it fell on Aug. 22), when the Prophet Muhammad made his mystical journey to the Furthest Mosque, associated in tradition with al-Aqsa in Jerusalem. Rumors, possibly spread by Ahmadinejad’s enemies, have tied him to the outlawed Hojjatiya — a link mistakenly interpreted outside Iran as evidence that he might want to bring back the imam by violence, rather than that he might prefer to wait piously and prepare for the imam’s eventual return on his own schedule. It is of course impossible to gauge the man’s religious sensibilities perfectly. Yet the relative absence of a contemporary Shiite trend to messianic brinkmanship suggests that Ahmadinejad’s recent emphasis on the mahdi may be interpreted more in terms of an attempt to summon Khomeini’s legacy and Iran’s revolutionary moment than as a desperate willingness to bring the nation to the edge of war. When Ahmadinejad invoked the mahdi in his now-famous letter to George Bush, he seemed to be using the doctrine in ecumenical terms, emphasizing the Islamic tradition that Jesus — revered as a prophet, though not as the Son of God — will return alongside the mahdi and govern in tandem with him.
So although a renewed Shiite messianism does create some cause for concern about the potential uses of an Iranian bomb — in particular because it suggests that Ahmadinejad may be more a utopian than a realist — it is almost certainly a mistake to anticipate that Iran would use its nuclear power in a way that would provoke large-scale retaliation and assured self-destruction. Iranian leaders have been more than ready to sacrifice their own citizens in large numbers. During the Iran-Iraq war, major efforts went into recruiting young boys to the Basij militias, which were then sent to the front lines on what were essentially suicide missions. Religion played the central part in motivating the teenage soldiers, and it is reasonable to believe that religion helped salve the consciences of those who ordered these children into battle. Yet even this discounting of the value of human life — in a war started by Saddam Hussein, not by Iran — fell short of voluntarily putting an entire nation at risk. Ahmadinejad surely understands the consequences of using a nuclear bomb, and Shiite Islam, even in its messianic incarnation, still falls short of inviting nuclear retaliation and engendering collective suicide.
VI.
These worries about an Islamic bomb raise the question of why we trust any nation with the power that a nuclear capacity confers. Why, for instance, do we trust ourselves, given that we remain the only nation actually to have used nuclear weapons? The standard answer to why we keep our nuclear bombs — a response developed during the cold war — is that we must have the capability to deter anyone who might attack us first. The promise of mutually assured destruction was its own kind of collective suicide pact, albeit one supposed to scare both sides out of pushing the button. That is why, throughout the heyday of the unilateral disarmament movement, critics of this justification pointed out that our threat was only credible if we were, in fact, prepared to kill millions of civilians in a rapid act of retaliation. If this kind of killing was morally unjustified, went their argument, then the threat to use it was also immoral.
The truth is that we hold on to our nuclear capability not only as a matter of deterrence but also to maintain our own global strategic position. If we do not want Islamic states — or anyone else for that matter — to have a nuclear capability, it is not necessarily because we consider them especially likely to bring on their own destruction by using it. It is, rather, that we do not want to cede some substantial chunk of our own global power to them. This principle — if it is a principle — lies behind the general strategy that is embedded in the international nuclear-nonproliferation treaty. Everybody involved understands that if any government got a chance to acquire nuclear power before the other treaty members had a chance to notice and impose sanctions, it would jump at the opportunity.
So the nonproliferation regime is not and could never be based on some principle of international fairness. But it does not follow that the United States and its allies should simply accept the development of nuclear technology by just anyone. It should be relevant to our deliberations that a particular candidate is our enemy. When it comes to Islamic states, there is serious reason to worry that, both now and in the immediately foreseeable future, popular anti-American sentiment is especially likely to play an important role in the shaping of foreign policy. Over the next quarter-century, it is conceivable and certainly desirable that Islamism and anti-Americanism may be unlinked. But we must be honest and acknowledge that in the short term at least, the U.S. democratization strategy has done almost nothing to reduce Islamist anti-Americanism, whether Shiite or Sunni — this despite the fact that the same strategy has benefited Islamists across the region by allowing them to run for office and enter government.
Much of the reason for this close linkage between Islamism and anti-Americanism comes from Iran. As an enemy of the United States, which has worked consistently against American interests, Iran is in a category by itself, most nearly matched by North Korea, the other still-standing member of President Bush’s axis of evil. In this, Iran’s motives have been primarily Islamic-ideological, not pragmatic.
For many years under the shah, Iran was a natural American ally — precisely because it was Shiite and non-Arab, and uncomfortably close to the Soviet Union and its fantasy of a warm-water port. Even after the 1979 revolution and the hostage crisis, it is possible that the United States would have eventually reopened relations with an avowedly Islamic Iran had the government softened its anti-Americanism. The United States has never made secularism a condition of friendship. It has been fully prepared to support Islamic states like Saudi Arabia, and even used religion to cement the anti-Communist alliance during the cold war. The Iraqi Shiite Islamists have been willing to work alongside the Americans, and the United States has in return treated them as its allies, democratically chosen by the Iraqi electorate.
Islamist anti-Americanism is the direct legacy of Ayatollah Khomeini’s success in marrying Islamic faith to anti-imperialism — making “Death to America” into a religious chant, not just a political slogan. Of course the United States was hardly blameless. It did everything it could to open itself to the imperialist charge, including, in Iran, backing the famous 1953 countercoup that removed from power Iran’s first democratically legitimate prime minister, Mohammed Mossadegh. Contemporary Islamists can also point to America’s continuing hypocritical support of regional authoritarian regimes.
Iranian-rooted Islamist anti-Americanism has worked far better than its designers might have imagined, spreading to Sunni Islamists who have little love to lose for Iran. The marriage of Islamism and anti-Americanism will probably be considered by history as the most significant consequence of the Iranian revolution. Anti-Americanism has become a staple of Islamist sermons and Web postings, an effective tool for drawing to the movement angry young people who might not naturally be drawn to religion. Bin Ladenism, in this sense, owes much to the Iranian revolution even though Al Qaeda was never Iran’s direct ally. United States support for Israel has always been an important part of the argument for Islamist anti-Americanism, but today it is by no means a necessary component. If U.S. support of Israel were to weaken, the American presence in Iraq and elsewhere in the gulf would easily substitute as a basis for hatred.
The United States therefore has strong reason to block its enemy Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons — not simply because Iran will seek to become a greater regional power, as any nation might do, but because the Islamic Republic of Iran as currently constituted is definitionally anti-American. There need not be a direct threat of Iranian first use against either the United States or Israel for this reason to weigh heavily. A nuclear Iran will be a stronger and more effective enemy in pursuing anti-American policies under the banner of Islam. That will not change until the Iranian state abandons either its Islamic identity or its association between Islam and anti-Americanism. Iran’s eagerness to acquire nuclear capacity need not be a result of a particularly Islamic motivation, but if and when Iran does have the bomb, its enhanced power and prestige will certainly be lent to policies that it conceives as promoting the Islamic interest.
Whether force, negotiation or some combination is the right path to take to keep Iran from going nuclear is of course a hugely important question. It turns on many uncertain facts, like the true progress of Iran’s nuclear program and how much it can be affected by air attack; Iran’s capacity and will to retaliate against an attack; whether there is any chance Iran would respond to negotiations; and the ability of the United States to withstand any retaliation while 150,000 U.S. troops are in Iraq. As we have recently learned in Iraq, it is not enough to think you have a good reason to go to war — you must also have a realistic understanding of the practical and moral costs of things going horribly wrong. Any choice, though, must be made against the backdrop of the reality that the Islamic government of Iran is not only unlikely to collapse soon — it is also very unlikely to become less anti-American in the near future.
The same, unfortunately, is true of the world’s Islamist movements, for whom anti-Americanism remains a rallying cry and a principle of belief. Perhaps the promotion of democracy in the region, pursued consistently by the United States over the long term, might someday allow the rise of leaders whose Islamism is tempered by the need to satisfy their constituents’ domestic needs — and who eschew anti-Americanism as wasteful and misguided. Iraq was the test case of whether this change could occur in the short term. But we failed to make the experiment work and gave Iraq’s Islamist politicians, Shiite and Sunni alike, ample grounds to continue the anti-American rhetoric that comes so easily to them. In the wake of our tragic mismanagement of Iraq, we are certainly a generation or more from any such unlinking of Islamism and anti-Americanism, if it is to occur at all. And Islamism itself shows no signs of being on the wane as a social or political force.
That means that the best we can hope for in nuclear Islamic states in the near term is a rational dictator like Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan, who sees his bread buttered on the side of an alliance with the West. Such rulers can be very strong and can bring stability, but we also know that their rule (or reign) promotes Islamist opposition, with its often violent overtones. When such rulers die or otherwise fall from power, the Islamists will be poised to use the international power conferred by nuclear weapons to pursue their own ends — ends for now overwhelmingly likely to be anti-American.
None of this is inherent in the structure of Islam itself. Islam contains a rich and multivocal set of traditions and ideas, susceptible to being used for good or ill, for restraint or destruction. This interpretive flexibility — equally characteristic of the other great world religions — does not rob Islam of its distinctiveness. An Islamic bomb would not be just the same as the nationalist bomb of a majority-Muslim state, nor would it be the same as a Christian bomb or a Jewish one. But its role in history will depend, ultimately, on the meaning Muslims give it, and the uses to which they put their faith and their capabilities. In confronting the possibility of the Islamic bomb, we — Muslims and non-Muslims alike — need to remember that Islam exists both as an ideal system of morals and values and as a force that motivates actual people living today, with all the frailties and imperfections that make us human.
Noah Feldman, a contributing writer, is a law professor at New York University and adjunct senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations.
Ah I'm always out of step it seems..
I'm with you brother. Its not easy to disentagle yourself from your own culture to step back and assess it ALL. I'm at a great loss much of the time myself.
I live in the bible belt as well - literally right down the road from Pat Robertson's Regent Campus.
Or perhaps I am just having spiritual allergic reactions to the political season we are in. We've really done it this time...haven't we.
It looks that way. The mudslinging being volleyed from each party is horrific- what a mockery of our democratic process.
Bartle, still working on that behemoth of an article you posted up.
God Bless
Chariot,
I don't actually live in the bible belt anymore. (I did attend VCU though, and frequently visited the Tidewater area close to Regent University.):-)
MC
By REUTERS
Filed at 11:21 a.m. ET
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Bush administration is failing to counter Islamist online propaganda that could propel militancy into the next generation, experts say.
From the Middle East, Asia and Europe, Islamists have built an expansive Internet library of sophisticated texts on the ideology that underpins violence against the West and other enemies, analysts and intelligence officials said.
``It's a steady, stealthy indoctrination aimed at creating a whole new generation of jihadists. And scandalously, it is unopposed,'' said Stephen Ulph, who studies the Islamist Web for the Jamestown Foundation, a Washington think tank.
E-books and online pamphlets, with titles such as ``39 Ways to Serve and Participate in Jihad,'' encourage the growth of home-grown militant cells across the world, including in such Western countries as Canada and Britain, the experts believe.
U.S. intelligence is reluctant to mount an effective counteroffensive by recruiting Islamic experts from overseas to rebut and even ridicule Islamist authors, according to experts and U.S. officials.
``Anything exposing the West as a supporter would destroy Islamic opposition to the jihadis,'' one intelligence official on condition of anonymity. ``We are completely out of luck with the Muslim world, across the board.''
Several agencies including the CIA, FBI and the office of U.S. National Intelligence Director John Negroponte are part of a closely guarded effort to monitor the content of Islamist Web sites.
But the program is hampered by stringent security standards that make it hard for intelligence agencies to employ Islamist experts from the Arab world.
``Even if we think we understand elements of the religion, we certainly don't understand elements of their cultural communications,'' the intelligence official said.
POP JIHAD PROPAGANDA
Others warned that U.S. policy-makers could be making a fatal error by ignoring doctrinal online texts that lay bare the substance of a violent Islamist mind-set.
``In order to be able to fight something, you have first of all to understand what is going on. And I don't think that at this stage they understand it well enough to fight it,'' said Rita Katz, director of the SITE Institute, which tracks and analyzes international terrorism.
In a presentation this week, Ulph said doctrinal material accounts for 60 percent of Islamist Web content and most texts are in Arabic. But many have begun to reappear in English and other European languages in an apparent appeal to Muslims living in the West.
One of the most popular is the 1,600-page treatise, ``Call to Global Islamic Resistance,'' a comprehensive guide to militant life by al Qaeda ideologue Mustafa Setmariam Nasar, also known as Abu Musab al-Suri, who was captured in Pakistan a year ago.
The Islamist Web became a center for al Qaeda operational planning, training and fund-raising after the fall of the Taliban regime in Afghanistan.
Thousands of Islamist Web sites have since sprouted, many appealing to disenfranchised Muslim youth with so-called Pop Jihad propaganda that can include films of beheadings and spectacular attacks on U.S. troops in Iraq.
But Ulph and others, including former intelligence officials, say the future of Islamist militancy depends on the more sophisticated doctrinal material, capable of guiding the life of the committed militant from childhood to martyrdom.
``The focus has been on how these guys use the Internet for fund-raising and operations,'' said Jarret Brachman of the Combating Terrorism Center at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, New York. ``Only recently have we realized there are strategic implications.''
The clash of the Titans...Wars and Rumors of Wars...Nation Rising up Against Nation
Islamic Jihadist, American Interest, Iran, North Korea, a burgeoning China, reemergence of Russia, a consildating Europe, talks of a Soviet/China block to check American power in that region, a more defiant South America looking to thwart American interference etc...
Did i miss anything?? Or am i overreacting??
If interested, examine this site - a neocon thinktank.[url=http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm]Project For The New American Century
A comment from its statement of principles, America must implement "a foreign policy that boldly and purposefully promotes American principles abroad; and national leadership that accepts the United States' global responsibilities.
Among its signees: Rumsfeld, Cheney, Jeb Bush
Some of these thinktanks have been influential in shaping American Foreign policy.
My heart aches at the prospects we might face in the foreseeable future. From my standpoint things look very bleak...
Rob
``It's a steady, stealthy indoctrination aimed at creating a whole new generation of jihadists...many appealing to disenfranchised Muslim youth with so-called Pop Jihad propaganda that can include films of beheadings and spectacular attacks on U.S. troops in Iraq
I'm confused...are they talking about CNN and BBC here?
I don't usually read this thread, but was invited to read 'The Islamic Tide', by someone on SI.
Right now, I'm sitting in a Muslim internet cafe, and am aware that everything I pull up to read, may be pulled up by anyone interested to know what I use the computer for. I trust this will not make me any more or less discreet than usual.... nor you, beloved brethren.....
I have some random thoughts - reactions to this slightly simplistic view of the issues brought to our attention by the author. Probably I could say even more, but, I will refrain, as my time is limited.
I am led to believe that it is normal for men in Iraq to own a gun. In other words, everyone is armed, whether they group together to further their preferred politic, or simply protect their families if possible.The invader did not win the gratitude of the country’s Muslims, who quickly set up their own militias and armed gangs.
Muslims govern themselves in many countries..... though not necessarily by whatThrough laxity and misunderstanding, in an effort to win over the Muslim population, the occupying powers wanted to give freedom of action to the Muslims so they could govern themselves.
In the UK, [i]democracy
No ignorance here; I think they knew exactly what they were doing.What followed was merely the logical consequence of an absurd policy adopted out of ignorance.
Herein lies the impotence of the supposed occupying power and its sham occupation and the sham democracy it aspires to nurture. There has been[b]no Christian crusade in Iraq[/b] , no attempt to suppress the Muslims or convert them by the irresistible power of the U.S. and British forces.
This is wishful thinking on the part of J. R. Nyquist....!
Well, there may have been some misjudgment of what would ensue on the part of some politicists, but I don't think the[b]Irony of ironies[/b] , the invasion of Iraq best serves al Qaeda and the fanatic Islamist regime in Iran.....From all this we can see that the West’s political leaders have got it wrong. “Whether motivated by naïve wishful thinking or rigid political correctness,” wrote Brigitte Gabriel, “they assert that Islam is a ‘moderate,’ ‘tolerant,’ ‘peaceful’ religion that has been hijacked by ‘extremists.’ They ignore the repeated calls to jihad … emanating from the government-controlled mosques of so-called moderate Islamic countries such as Egypt, Pakistan, and Indonesia. They refuse to accept that in the Muslim world, extreme is mainstream.”
In N Ireland, part of the strategy of HMG has been to isolate the most extreme elements as 'criminal', while embracing those who will, at least, play an apparently peaceful part in a kind of democratic process. Realistically, this is not expected to take much less than two generations..... like, fifty years..... but, what we have now, is posted as 'progress'.
This statement may be what is put forward at a political level, but it's not how it works.....!!!!The West believes in commerce and trade. Everyone can get rich if everyone gets along. So why shouldn’t we all get along? Enmity is obsolete, say the Western businessmen. War is counterproductive and wasteful. Borders should be open, because trade is the path to a good life. Armies should be small because large armies are expensive and cut into a country’s standard of living. The desire to conquer, to inflict death and destruction on enemies seems entirely irrational. To those motivated by money and the good things promised by economic freedom, the war system of the religious fanatic is sheer lunacy.
The author doesn't seem to understand politics! And, the underlying thesis that democracy is freedom, or that freedomBut from the standpoint of the religious fanatic, economic freedom is lunacy because its creed of tolerance signifies surrender to alien ideas and “outsiders.” In the last analysis there can be no agreement, no compromise between those who fight for freedom and those who fight for the triumph of Islam. But the West is slow to understand this reality.
In fact, everyone believes in trade. This is how anyone who survives.... survives. But, what is trade? Trade is the people with something that someone else needs, selling it to the person who needs it..... And if the person who needs it cannot afford to pay, then 'trade' is a way of bringing PEOPLE into subservience.... through debt...... Iow, the plan is simple, the people with the goods - and the power - render another people (who might have goods.... but won't have them for long now....), into a state of neediness.... and bob's your uncle.... you have 'trade'. I know it's mean, but this is actually [i]how
I don't have time to say more, but that last paragraph about trade is definitely my favourite in the whole article. All that is said about intolerance, and about the drive of Islam to dominate the world, may be true, but let's remember.....
John 19:11
Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power [[b]at all
I'm confused...are they talking about CNN and BBC here?
dont be confused, they're not talking about CNN or BBC, they're talking a wide world of internet sites, that you can't read because they are in Arabic, discussion forums, much like this, AND even youtube, which has now started to come down on those who post videotaped IED attacks against our boys.
In aysmetrical warfare, everything becomes a weapon, and the internet is a potent weapon.
there is an islamic internet discussion forum, islamcity..makes an interesting read, its rather benign, much of the same religious cyber tussling you see here goes on there also, I would suggest more of the malignant internet discussions in the islamic world, go on in Arabic only sites.
bartle
I asked:
There are two sources for this strife according to the author....what are those sources?
I am not interested in who is right or wrong. What I am interested in is finding the source for the strife. Why?
The Scriptures point to a time where the world will be so tired of striving and waring against one another that most will look to a man to save them. They will give their lives, they will give their faith to a man whom they believe.
We are not yet there.
So according to Scripture, I know that there will be wars and rumors of wars. I know that there will be an unrelenting push to establish a globalization of the economy. And finally there may be a religion that seeks to overcome the world.
So I submitted this article as an exercise in identifying the underlying strife that exists between two civilizations. And Christianity is not one of them. Christianity is used by the author as an instrument. I posted another thought under a new thread that concerns politics. In the last post, that author speaks of Christianity, that is used as a means to unify people without regard to glorifying God.
What is the source, what is the lie?
Have you ever looked at Scripture to find what God defines as evil? Probably half of Scripture deals with this issue...
In Christ
Jeff
Sister Dorcas wrote:
This statement may be what is put forward at a political level, but it's not how it works.....!!!!
Sis, if this is the last time you ever read this thread, please listen to this discussion on the nature of our Banking system. Could this be the great whore that someday might be overthrown by a religion called Islam?
We are given the Scriptures, we are called to observe the world through Scripture.
Heb. 5:12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Do you see that the word of God enables us to discern both good and evil. However, this ability only comes as we mature in the use of the word of God...
This mp3 is the clearest and simplist explaination that I have heard on this topic..
http://www.financialsense.com/Experts/2006/Griffin.html
In Christ
Jeff
Jeff,
Thanks for your post. I confess I'm not quite sure what you're saying.... but, I'm listening to the mp3 on the page you linked (about the Federal Reserve ). Although I could not have explained how the non-existent money works, I was aware of it, and also, that the ordinary man is actually 'paying' for it.
In the interview, I've just got to the place where he's explaining about wars, but I need to hear the rest of it.
Now, have you ever read 'In God's Name', by David Yallop? This also explains an aspect of financial markets which is part of the world system. I thought Griffin's point about a world currency was interesting.
Sister Dorcas wrote:
Thanks for your post. I confess I'm not quite sure what you're saying.
I am concerned with trying to identify devices created by Satan to lead men astray. In Scripture, I find that God's judgement is meeted out when generations begin to reflect conditions similar to what is found in Habakkuk:
5 \t“Indeed, because he transgresses by wine,
\tHe is a proud man,
\tAnd he does not stay at home.
\tBecause he enlarges his desire as hell,
\tAnd he is like death, and cannot be satisfied,
\tHe gathers to himself all nations
\tAnd heaps up for himself all peoples.
6 \t“Will not all these take up a proverb against him,
\tAnd a taunting riddle against him, and say,
\t‘Woe to him who increases
\tWhat is not his—how long?
\tAnd to him who loads himself with many pledges’?
7 \tWill not your creditors rise up suddenly?
\tWill they not awaken who oppress you?
\tAnd you will become their booty.
8 \tBecause you have plundered many nations,
\tAll the remnant of the people shall plunder you,
\tBecause of men’s blood
\tAnd the violence of the land and the city,
\tAnd of all who dwell in it.
9 \t“Woe to him who covets evil gain for his house,
\tThat he may set his nest on high,
\tThat he may be delivered from the power of disaster!
10 \tYou give shameful counsel to your house,
\tCutting off many peoples,
\tAnd sin against your soul.
11 \tFor the stone will cry out from the wall,
\tAnd the beam from the timbers will answer it.
12 \t“Woe to him who builds a town with bloodshed,
\tWho establishes a city by iniquity!
13 \tBehold, is it not of the LORD of hosts
\tThat the peoples labor to feed the fire,
\tAnd nations weary themselves in vain?
For what do the peoples labor in vain to feed the fire?
What are they seeking?
In Christ
Jeff
John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
The devil speaks a lie...he speaks from his own resources...he is the father of it...
Now we know that gold, silver, and precious stones were created by God through Jesus Christ. We know that God creates our commodities...wheat, corn, pigs, cows, and chickens...
Who is the creator of a "fiat currency?"
(fiat currency = paper money not backed by anything created by God)
In Christ
Jeff
from: [url=http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm]Statement of Principles
...build on the successes of this past century
and to ensure our security
and our greatness in the next.
from King David:
19 Arise, O LORD, let not MAN triumph;
let the nations be judged in your presence.
20 Strike them with terror, O LORD;
let the nations know they are but MEN.
Ps. 9
"... let THY Glory be over all the earth."
Strike them with terror, O LORD Ps. 9:20
I feel an explanation for my last post is in order, as it could be perceived as a hostile stance towards our dear southern neighbors. Really not. SI is a wonderful facilitator in dissolving boundaries, and moving us beyond the latest media report.
Nevertheless, I feel that an ever-growing plague called terror (as opposed to terrorism) has fallen on our nations, especially experienced by those who do not know the Lord, and who rely on this earth for everything.
Here in Canada, there is a smoldering feeling of terror too - a fear that we are getting helplessly swallowed up - sucked into a forced friendship with our neighbors. Antiterrorist laws are quickly eroding our freedoms, and e-mail warnings are circulating.
As the days move on we will require deeper and deeper faith in order to pray:
Let man not triumph”
“Hallowed be THY name…
“THY will be done….”
For THINE is the glory….”
"The earth is the Lord's and everything in it,
the world and all who live in it..." Ps. 24:1
Diane
Sis wrote:
As the days move on we will require deeper and deeper faith in order to pray:Let man not triumph”
“Hallowed be THY name…
“THY will be done….”
For THINE is the glory….”"The earth is the Lord's and everything in it,
the world and all who live in it..." Ps. 24:1
Amen...
A deeper faith is the product of growing in the understanding of the truth and how this truth sets one free from the bondage of the vain traditions and philosophies of this world. A deeper faith is secured more firmly in the heart of the individual who has seen the power of the truth seperate the evil desires that one once hoped in and renew the hope of salvation that is in Christ alone.
There is coming a time where the world will place total faith in a man who is the seed of Satan. Only those who know God and walk with Him will be able to stand in that day.
God Bless
Jeff
Back to the recently article...
What is the source for wars and rumors of wars?
Why does Islam hate post christian, post modern western civilization?
In Christ
jeff
I once worked with a man who grew up in the oil fields of Saudi Arabia. For the most part he lived with his parents on a compound which isolated the foreign workers from the Saudi's.
He told me of a story once where he was traveling as a young boy from one town to another on a company bus. He told me of an incident where the police stopped the bus and forced everyone to get out of the bus. The reason for this action was to demonstrate to the people the justice of their law. You see they still live according to the OT law. They believe in upholding an eye for an eye enforcement of the law.
My friend was made to witness a beheading of a man who had killed another man. He will never forget that day. The muslims live according to the law. And everyone who lives in that region of the world is expected to live according to the law.
If one were to compare that culture with the culture of the post modern west what would one find? Why is there so much strife and warring between these two cultures?
In Christ
Jeff
What is the source for wars and rumors of wars?
King David understood:
Ps. 2
1 Why do the nations conspire
and the peoples plot in vain?
2 The kings of the earth take their stand
and the rulers gather together
against the LORD
and against his Anointed One. ]
3 "Let us break their chains," they say,
"and throw off their fetters."
There will always be wars and rumors of wars because nations will always rebel against his Anointed One They want to be free from the yoke of the Lord. They want to rule themselves. They want to save themselves. They want to be their own God. They want to preserve their own kingdom – and the only way they do that is by having an army to protect its turf.
The unredeemed man: Revenge, “….eye for an eye..” He fights for a kingdom of this world with man's weapons.
The follower of Christ: He follows the teachings of Christ - Forgiveness, “….turn the other cheek, love your enemy, do not resist an evil one. He is a citizen of the kingdom of Heaven, and defends it with God-given weapons.
12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms....
14Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist,
with the breastplate of righteousness in place,
15and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace.
16In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
17Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
Why does Islam hate post christian, post modern western civilization?
Imagine being a Muslim watching our TV shows - where women are so brazen, so loose, so aggressive. Imagine seeing our glorification of evil, and how we are so entertained by it. Imagine seeing our rough language, our children mouthy towards their elders.
Imagine them seeing western newscasts - so arrogant, "king of the castle" attitude, disrespect for one another. What about our drug problems, immorality, our famiy breakdowns, crime, our pleasure seeking society that doesn't care to be fruitful and multiply. Imagine watching a society that fails to correct its wrongs, that behaves like permissive parents .... and on and on and on....
What must the Muslim think of our western hypocrisy – claiming to be Christian, but showing little evidence of humble Christ-following?
Do we really expect the Muslim to be jealous of our wonderful 'freedoms'?
Diane
Sis wrote:
There will always be wars and rumors of wars because nations will always rebel against his Anointed One They want to be free from the yoke of the Lord. They want to rule themselves. They want to save themselves. They want to be their own God. They want to preserve their own kingdom – and the only way they do that is by having an army to protect its turf.
Is. 14:12 \t“How you are fallen from heaven,
\tO Lucifer, son of the morning!
\tHow you are cut down to the ground,
\tYou who weakened the nations!
Imagine being a Muslim watching our TV shows - where women are so brazen, so loose, so aggressive. Imagine seeing our glorification of evil, and how we are so entertained by it. Imagine seeing our rough language, our children mouthy towards their elders.Imagine them seeing western newscasts - so arrogant, "king of the castle" attitude, disrespect for one another. What about our drug problems, immorality, our famiy breakdowns, crime, our pleasure seeking society that doesn't care to be fruitful and multiply. Imagine watching a society that fails to correct its wrongs, that behaves like permissive parents .... and on and on and on....
What must the Muslim think of our western hypocrisy – claiming to be Christian, but showing little evidence of humble Christ-following?
Do we really expect the Muslim to be jealous of our wonderful 'freedoms'?
Thankyou Sis for coming alongside in the work.
Eph. 4:11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,
Keep fighting to bring to light that which struggles to remain in darkness.
God Bless
In Christ
Jeff
What must the Muslim think of our western hypocrisy?
If they are honest, maybe they are thinking.."Huh, that's just like our middle eastern hypocrisy."
Regardless of race and religon, without the Spirit of the living God, all religions are little more then a profession of unlived beliefs....hypocrisy. Islam is a cultural pretext more then a true faith for millions of lost people over there...just like Christianity is over here.
For instance, in the week leading up to 9-11... a few of those infamous 'devout' Muslims were getting their souls ready for holy martyrdom...so where did they spend the last days of their lives? In a strip club.
MC
If they are honest, maybe they are thinking.."Huh, that's just like our middle eastern hypocrisy."
Notions like this get rather close for comfort. Don’t people often hate the very ones who present same flaw as they have?
If we were to do a bit of unravelling, we might just discover that, in actuality, we have two major world religions fighting against each other, which are identical in a fundimental way, yet imagine they are totally opposite to each other.
“Eye for an eye”. Funny, on a recent PBS documentary about the Civl Rights Movement, I heard these very words used to describe a prevailing American philosophy that was holding back a resolution to the ongoing racial tension.
Jesus said, "You have heard that it was said, "Eye for an eye"... BUT I TELL YOU.... " Mat. 5:38
Diane
Diane wrote
If I may say so, I think this is too simplistic a question.What must the Muslim think of our western hypocrisy – claiming to be Christian, but showing little evidence of humble Christ-following?Do we really expect the Muslim to be jealous of our wonderful 'freedoms'?
People (Muslim or not), crave for a peaceful place to live, food to feed their children, and opportunities to prosper like others they may see or hear of.
There are 'freedoms' in that list I've made, but the real freedom craved - particularly by Muslims - is to be released from the fear of not getting to heaven.
It is exercising my soul and my mind greatly, that when Paul preached on Mars Hill, he wound up his announcement with a statement about judgment.
In the West, we are not nearly interested enough in how to be judged pleasing to God (or maybe it's just me) and we don't worry that we might not have done enough kind and good deeds to make up for our sins.
It has been an eye-opener to me to see the general level of kindness and civility offered to me as a stranger, and amongst the Muslims with whom I mix or have an opportunity to observe (from my car, usually). These appear to be ordinary people seeking a peaceful, sociable, law-abiding lifestyle. Personally I am challenged as to how I could turn these hearts towards the true and living God. Apart from anything else, I need the nerve. :-( You could pray for me, if it ever comes to mind.... thanks. 8-)
Just a quick thought to keep this thread from becoming about Muslims...my comments below were not a critique of Muslims per se, but an observation that hypocrisy is not a uniquely western vice. ;-)
MC
Without Christ all are condemned to hypocrisy...
God Bless
Jeff
This is a note added to the first thread, "These Days are Evil."
I was watching PBS History Detectives and found this mention of "Operation Paper Clip." In the previous thread, I worked to establish how propaganda is used to spread the lies of Satan.
The Hisory Detecttives episode on tape decks exposed how the Nazi's created the first magnetic recordings on tape. To understand more of that time and see where we have come since then, I would encourage you to view this episode.
http://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/investigations/306_tapedeck.html
Then click on Features, Nazi Technology, which is found on the left side of the page...
In Christ
Jeff
Another note to the origin of propaganda, and Nazi Germany is found in the works of this man...
Edward Bernays
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Cover of Bernays' 1928 book, Propaganda.Edward Bernays (November 22, 1891 – March 9, 1995) is regarded by many as the "father of public relations," although some people believe that title properly belongs to some other early PR practitioners, such as Ivy Lee.
Born in Vienna, Bernays was both a blood nephew and a nephew-in-law to Sigmund Freud, the father of psychoanalysis, and Bernays's public relations efforts helped popularize Freud's theories in the United States. Bernays also pioneered the PR industry's use of psychology and other social sciences to design its public persuasion campaigns. "If we understand the mechanism and motives of the group mind, is it not possible to control and regiment the masses according to our will without their knowing about it? The recent practice of propaganda has proved that it is possible, at least up to a certain point and within certain limits." (Propaganda, 2005 ed., p. 71.) He called this scientific technique of opinion-molding the "engineering of consent."
One of Bernays' favorite techniques for manipulating public opinion was the indirect use of "third party authorities" to plead for his clients' causes. "If you can influence the leaders, either with or without their conscious cooperation, you automatically influence the group which they sway," he said. In order to promote sales of bacon, for example, he conducted a survey of physicians and reported their recommendation that people eat hearty breakfasts. He sent the results of the survey to 5,000 physicians, along with publicity touting bacon and eggs as a hearty breakfast.
Bernays drew upon his uncle Freud's psychoanalytic ideas for the benefit of commerce in order to promote, by indirection, commodities as diverse as cigarettes, soap and books.
[edit] Famous clients
Bernays' clients included President Calvin Coolidge, Procter & Gamble, CBS, the United Fruit Company, the American Tobacco Company, General Electric, Dodge Motors, and the fluoridationists of the Public Health Service. Beyond his contributions to these famous and powerful clients, Bernays revolutionized public relations by combining traditional press agentry with the techniques of psychology and sociology to create what one writer has called "the science of ballyhoo."
[edit] Public relations
PR industry historian Scott Cutlip describes Bernays as "perhaps public relations' most fabulous and fascinating individual, a man who was bright, articulate to excess, and most of all, an innovative thinker and philosopher of this vocation that was in its infancy when he opened his office in New York in June 1919."
Merely ten years later, in October 1929, Bernays was involved in promoting "Light's Golden Jubilee." The event, which spanned across several major cities in the U.S., was designed to celebrate the 50th anniversary of Thomas Edison's invention of the light-bulb {note: the light-bulb was in fact invented by Joseph Swan}. The publicity elements of the Jubilee -- including the special issuance of a U.S. postage stamp and Edison's "re-creating" the discovery of the light bulb for a nationwide radio audience -- provided evidence of Bernays' love for big ideas and "ballyhoo."
Much of Bernays's reputation today stems from his persistent public relations campaign to build his own reputation as "America's No. 1 Publicist." During his active years, many of his peers in the industry were offended by Bernays's continuous self-promotion. According to Cutlip, "Bernays was a brilliant person who had a spectacular career, but, to use an old-fashioned word, he was a braggart."
"When a person would first meet Bernays," says Cutlip, "it would not be long until Uncle Sigmund would be brought into the conversation. His relationship with Freud was always in the forefront of his thinking and his counseling." According to Irwin Ross, another writer, "Bernays liked to think of himself as a kind of psychoanalyst to troubled corporations." In the early 1920s, Bernays arranged for the US publication of an English-language translation of Freud's General Introduction to Psychoanalysis. In addition to publicizing Freud's ideas, Bernays used his association with Freud to establish his own reputation as a thinker and theorist—a reputation that was further enhanced when Bernays authored several landmark texts of his own, most notably Crystallizing Public Opinion (1923, ISBN 0-87140-975-5), Propaganda (1928, ISBN 0-8046-1511-X) and "The Engineering of Consent" in Annals of the American Academy of Political and Social Science (March 1947).
Bernays defined the profession of "counsel on public relations" as a "practicing social scientist" whose "competence is like that of the industrial engineer, the management engineer, or the investment counselor in their respective fields." To assist clients, PR counselors used "understanding of the behavioral sciences and applying them—sociology, social psychology, anthropology, history, etc." In Propaganda, his most important book, Bernays argued that the scientific manipulation of public opinion was necessary to overcome chaos and conflict in society:
The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ... In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons ... who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.
Bernays' celebration of propaganda helped define public relations, but it did not win the industry many friends. In a letter to President Franklin D. Roosevelt, Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter described Bernays and Ivy Lee as "professional poisoners of the public mind, exploiters of foolishness, fanaticism and self-interest." And history showed the flaw in Bernays' identification of the "manipulation of the masses" as a natural and necessary feature of a democratic society. The fascist rise to power in Germany demonstrated that propaganda could be used to subvert democracy as easily as it could be used to "resolve conflict."
In his autobiography, titled Biography of an Idea, Bernays recalls a dinner at his home in 1933 where
Karl von Weigand, foreign correspondent of the Hearst newspapers, an old hand at interpreting Europe and just returned from Germany, was telling us about Goebbels and his propaganda plans to consolidate Nazi power. Goebbels had shown Weigand his propaganda library, the best Weigand had ever seen. Goebbels, said Weigand, was using my book Crystallizing Public Opinion as a basis for his destructive campaign against the Jews of Germany. This shocked me. ... Obviously the attack on the Jews of Germany was no emotional outburst of the Nazis, but a deliberate, planned campaign.
It is impossible to fundamentally grasp the social, political, economic and cultural developments of the past 100 years without some understanding of Bernays and his professional heirs in the public relations industry. As a result his legacy remains a highly contested one, as evidenced by the 2002 BBC documentary The Century of the Self. PR is a 20th-century phenomenon, and Bernays -- widely eulogized as the "father of public relations" at the time of his death in 1995 -- played a major role in defining the industry's philosophy and methods.
Bernays once engineered a "pancake breakfast" with vaudevillians for the icy Calvin Coolidge in what is widely considered one of the first overt media acts for a president.
Bernays is held in high regard by some and thoroughly despised by others even today, and was even named as one of the 1,000 most influential people of all time.
In addition to his uncle Freud, Bernays also used the theories of Ivan Pavlov.
(end of article)
Do you see how the world is brain washed...do you see the method used for injecting the poison?
In Christ
Jeff
Upon researching Edward Bernays I found this documentary made by the BBC. The title of this 4 part video found on Google Video is "The Century of the Self."
I have found this to be major and significant step in bringing clarity to these two threads, "These Days are Evil," and "These Days are Evil II."
As you view this documentary you must view it in light of Scriptures. You must see the depravity of man, you must see the hopelessness of the carnal mind...you must see the emptiness of men who seek satisfaction in "self."
Warning...there is about 10 seconds of nudity in the 3rd episode between the 35 minute mark and 42 minute mark. This part of the documentary is covering the free sex movement of the sixties.
Search for the meaning of democracy and how it relates to 'self.'
Search for the meaning of materialism and how this pretains to "self."
You will find why we as a nation find ourselves in the depth of indebtedness. It is all vanity...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8953172273825999151
In Christ
Jeff
Wow Bro Jeff,
This "The Century of the Self" is some "heavy" material, just the kind of material i like in reference to Scripture ... Of course it isn't the type of info one can easily share with others, but praise God for an understanding of Rom. 12: 3-10 and Heb. 11:6 ... This is very much in line with two Frontline episodes i have yet to listen to regarding "the lure of advertising" and "the lure of pornography" ... The devil's a fisherman too, and this material shows us exactly how he's fashioned his lures and dragnets ...
i heard this weekend a really good quote;
"God is not interested in enabling us to get ones "self" over, but enabling us to get over ones "self"
... or as Christ said. "If any man will come after Me, let him deny him(self), and take up his cross daily, and follow Me" - Luke.9:23
Christ says the key to satisfaction is denying ones self in following Him, satan says the key is endulging ones self in following Him ...
Our mouths say we're following Christ, but what do our actions say? ...
Isa.29
[13] Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
[14] Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
[15] Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?
If it were not for knowing He will not allow us to continue in our present stupor, but that He is determined to finish His good work in us, to refine us to a Church without spot or blemish, a Church surely to prevail against the gates of hell, i'd be in despair ...
Praise God that we can depend on Him to correct we that He loves ... Clarity is about to come not only to these threads.
Brother Rahman wrote:
Of course it isn't the type of info one can easily share with others,
I believe that I will have to disect this documentary one thought at a time.
God Bless
Jeff
Bro Jeff you wrote;
"I believe that I will have to disect this documentary one thought at a time."
Amen if that's how you have to do it, tho our Lord has had me on a path of revealing to me just how and why things have come to be for a while, so when i hear things just seem to click ... i believe it's not by accident that we're as inquisitive as we are ... satan hates God's inquisitive folk, for such are used to uncover his mechanations ...
After listening to this site you posted i watched the history of Thanksgiving last nite, and noted just how much the pursuit of commerce had to do with the jockeying around of the date (pushing it back from the 30th to the 23rd to allow more shopping time before Christmas) ... It also stated how many Christian groups protested the first major Thanksgiving Day Parade because not only did it draw more folk than the usual coming to church, it also drew many saints away from coming to church on that day ... Subsequently it's not even in the American custom to go to church on Thanksgiving anymore ...
Satan has mightily used the pursuits of commerce and amusement as huge draws away from God, your posted documentary mightily shows how and gives one amo in explanation to others ... It's like the first time i heard that our government was involved in organized sports, in an effort to keep the working class man preoccupied to give him something to do to keep him out of trouble ... What a stark eye opener that was for me
about the manipulation of the masses ...Well it certainly has worked pretty well, with so many guys living vicariously thru a sports star/team, with commerce greatly benefiting by all the stuff they sell ... Even in many Christian circles we still have a lot of guys who know far more about their teams than they do Christ or the word of God, and will alter spiritual things around game time ...
Have you ever wondered why our Lord has you so interested in these things that others concider a raining on their parade if you try to share them? ... i have, and i believe there
is soon coming a time when folk will be open to hear an explanation of just why His correction has befallen us ...
Nobody wants to hear "why" as long as the bubble is in tact, but let it burst and all of a sudden everyone wants to know "why has God knocked us to our knees" ...
I've been researching propaganda myself for some time now and how it relates to democracy and how it has effected us spiritually.
As i've dug deeper i've hit upon a few threads leading in different directions one of which staggers me the most. The Federal Reserve.
If i might add, here's a very interesting video which seeks to demonstrate just who exactly is holding the reins in the US and its money supply.
Its as if God has peeled back the veneer of delusion and allowed me to peer inside. If this material is correct, what i find is something very sinister and captivating.
This stuff sheds some light on just to what extent Satan has control - "..that the whole world is under the control of the evil one."
God Bless
Rob
brethren
i watched with great interest how the enemy has so manipulated things. how he has played on the depravity of our fallen state in order to swing things in his favour, however i bless God for showing me through Job that both deceived and deceiver are not independant of God...this system satan has created is masterful, subtle, designed to run without God, to distract us from Him and it works well...i bless God though for by His own grace and mercy allowing foolish ones such as ourselves to look at the inner workings of this system even though many of our brethren are blinded to it. God does use the base to upturn the esteemed...
Praise God that we can depend on Him to correct we that He loves ... Clarity is about to come not only to these threads.
bless God for that. AMEN.
bro Rahman et Al
Amen if that's how you have to do it, tho our Lord has had me on a path of revealing to me just how and why things have come to be for a while, so when i hear things just seem to click ... i believe it's not by accident that we're as inquisitive as we are ... satan hates God's inquisitive folk, for such are used to uncover his mechanations ...
i can relate to how watching these documentaries, God just lets things click and i'm like "whoa" it all makes so much sense. i guess it's like a conspiracy of conspiracies!!!it's completely hidden to the masses (like any good conspiracy should be in my book) and yet God by His own grace has gathered together a few who He has decided to unpeel the onion to.
After listening to this site you posted i watched the history of Thanksgiving last nite, and noted just how much the pursuit of commerce had to do with the jockeying around of the date (pushing it back from the 30th to the 23rd to allow more shopping time before Christmas) ... It also stated how many Christian groups protested the first major Thanksgiving Day Parade because not only did it draw more folk than the usual coming to church, it also drew many saints away from coming to church on that day ... Subsequently it's not even in the American custom to go to church on Thanksgiving anymore ...
i didn't know all that about thanksgiving! i didn't know it was customary to go to church on that day and that it was also originally a little later than the day it is celebrated now...and for allowing more days to shop between thanksgiving and christmas? wow!
no doubt the enemy appealing to our flesh through commerce is abig distraction...nonetheless that distraction is about to be undone as i heard from our Lord next year some time.
Have you ever wondered why our Lord has you so interested in these things that others concider a raining on their parade if you try to share them? ... i have, and i believe there
well it seems our Lord is filling us up with info to disperse to the bewildered and hurt millions out there in our nation who in the blink of an eye will find themselves destitute and without hope except for God and His Church. let us who are His Church not be found wanting. AMEN.
bro Rob (hey those have the same letters)
i watched that series on the federal reserve and was blown away. i mean the fed is a private entity? the things which never made sense to me was how the government could owe anyone money. if i was the government everyone would owe me money! but like you said, our Lord has allowed some of us nobodys to peer into the machinations of the enemy for the purpose of explanation when the whole system falls apart.
our Lord is about to put us out there beyond these boards...
Brother Rob,
I have also seen the money master's videos. And then I came across this book on the subject.
The book is long and I have only just begun.
The Creature from Jekyll Island, by G. Edward Griffin. A Second Look at the Federal Reserve.
This book covers how the Federal Reserve was brought into existence. It covers like the video, the different aspects of our money system.
In Christ
Jeff
Brothers,
There are so many things in this video, that if one is grounded in the Scriptures, one will see how Satan attacks the very depravity; the ways that fallen men have actually come to recognize this depravity, ie Sigmund Freud. Then, we see how men with this knowledge seek to "push the buttons" that open men up to the further their "self."
The video begins to paint a picture of how Satan will enable the anti christ. And it all comes down to man's futile attempt to imitate the same way Lucifer himself fell. He wanted to be free.
God Bless you all in this work. May we learn to effectively communicate to the church what God is working in us.
In Christ
jeff
Brother Ironman and Rahman,
In the book Daniel, there is a progression of the visions and dreams that God gives Daniel. Over time the same dream becomes clearer and clearer. And in Daniel's case, he saw more than God wanted revealed in Scripture at that time.
Likewise, after reading your threads on prophesy, things are becoming clearer as we waite on Him. This is a wonderful time isn't it.
We ourselves are experiencing a picture of how God works in those who live by faith. The word is living and powerful...
In Christ
Jeff
God Bless
Jeff
Bro Jeff ...
A loud and hearty AMEN to both your previous posts! ... After viewing your posted documentary i'll never see a 'commercial" the same way again ...
i think you will find these interesting in the same vein;
[b]THE MERCHANTS OF COOL
They spend their days sifting through reams of market research data, focus groups, the streets, the schools, and the malls, hot on the trail of the "next big thing" that will snare the attention of their prey (youth) -- a market segment worth an estimated $150 billion a year.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/cool/view/
WARNING: Small Portions of Dirty Dancing and Profanity in Some Segments.
[b]THE PERSUADERS
Americans are swimming in a sea of messages. Each year, legions of ad people, copywriters, market researchers, pollsters, consultants, and even linguists—most of whom work for one of six giant companies—spend billions of dollars and millions of man-hours trying to determine how to persuade consumers what to buy, whom to trust, and what to think.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/persuaders/view/
brethren
you know, i used to think that freud was simply full of it however he is right in that men are driven by these weird suppressed urges. his solution to dealing with it (psychoanalysis and getting people to follow societal rules) however simply didn't cut it as evidenced by the suicide of that one lady of that prominent American family (in his own apartment in the place he satyed at in england) and her brother by alcoholism. what men need is Jesus, and like bro Rahman says often "that's my final answer"
the enemy has most craftily figured out a way to pander to this depravity which by nature will keep us from God hence his ploy is simply to distract us by anything else which appeals to this, sex, money, stuff the whole 9. bless God however that He has kept for Himself a remnant which He has redeemed by the blood of His own Son from all this to reach out to others. of course this makes us targets for the enemy and even some of our brethren who have yet to be loosed from those bonds but the work continues.
the enemy indeed is slick, knowing full well our depravity, he has pandered to our individual wants and has really caused us to be distracted from God.
yet even so, Christ said to Peter, on this rock, i will build my Church and the gates of Hades WILL NOT prevail against it.
Praise God! WE have the victory!!!
bless out Lord bro Jeff
In the book Daniel, there is a progression of the visions and dreams that God gives Daniel. Over time the same dream becomes clearer and clearer. And in Daniel's case, he saw more than God wanted revealed in Scripture at that time.
that's right bro! the more i see what's going on in the world and in my life in the light of God's ultimate purpose, seeing this all from His lofty ultimate perspective, the more excited i get because i see His will being fulfilled.
Likewise, after reading your threads on prophesy, things are becoming clearer as we waite on Him. This is a wonderful time isn't it
yes indeed bro!
bless our Lord bro!
Bro Jeff ...
i don't know if you've seen/listened to this but i believe led of our Lord to do so today, and i've found it to put our present in both eye opening and jaw dropping perspective ...
[u][b][color=FF0000]THE POWER OF NIGHTMARES 1 - 3[/color]
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1038.htm
This is a BBC historical documentary of how the clash between Radical Islam and the Neocons, and why the involvement of the so called Right Wing Christian Evangelical ...
Amazing
Bless God we know Who's really in control ... ;-)
I heard this on the news this evening...
There is 4 percent of the world's population that consumes 66 percent of the world's illegal drugs...
Do you have any guess of what country this is?
In Christ
Jeff
The United States is the worlds largest consumer of illegal drugs.
Have you ever thought about all the commercials for alchohol, prescription drugs, weight loss drugs, and over the counter drugs?
Here is another example of how the masses are manipulated by advertising. Drugs will make things better...
Satan is a lion in wait of those whom he might devour. Do you see how powerful his message is?
Just a thought, not looking for a response.
In Christ
Jeff
The following audio essays describe in more detail the ways in which Satan works his lies through the manipulation of information. This addresses the history of public relations and further builds on the history of people like Bernays.
There are six episodes developed by a journalist of the CBC.
It covers the history of public relations beginning at the end of the 1800 in the United States.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/spincycles/index.html
In Christ
jeff
Thanks for posting this site, Jeff. I find these messages fascinating and informative. They portray an aspect of our history that we’d rather not know about: the clever and sophisticated use of the media for manipulation and fabrication.
I had never heard of a spin doctor, but now I realize that no politician leaves home without one “in tow”.
Lying and deceit has become the norm and we don’t even bat an eyelash because we are accustomed to the highly polished language of the media. On the contrary, think how many of us would be appalled to hear the words of that one business man at the turn of the century: “Damn the public!” Is that still not the hidden message? Have we really "progressed" since then?
Jeremiah addresses this same issue in his day:
“If you can find but one person who deals honestly
and seeks the truth,
I will forgive the city.
Although they say, ‘As surely as the Lord lives,’ still they swear falsely.”
O Lord, do not your eyes look for truth?” Jer. 5:3
“…, you are trusting in deceptive words that are worthless.” Jer. 7:8
Why do we keep on looking so eagerly to the media for information, and subjecting ourselves to its manipulative devices?
I find scripture a much more accurate barometor of our times: ex: Jeremiah
Diane
Sister Diane wrote:
I find scripture a much more accurate barometor of our times: ex: Jeremiah
Heb. 5:12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
How many shy away from what Scripture teaches? How many have not allowed the Scriptures to cut away the hopes of the heathen, the hopes of the nations, the lie of the devil?
How many are still in the grips of the lie? How many are still in bondage to the lie? How many will there be that do not choose to allow Scripture it's way?
In Christ
Jeff
Bro Jeff ...
i just heard on a site that i dare not post on SI because some of the brothers ideas are a little out there, but other of what i hear is amazing and not reported on in depth anywhere else ... What i'm asking here is the first i've heard of this ...
Have you heard anything about the buying up of national stock markets intent on creating one Global Stock Exchange, and if so do you know who's specifically (in the natural) behind it other than the elusive "They"? ...
It's just amazing to me how so many of the U.S. public spend most of their time in such trivial wonderings as "what will happen with Spears, Richie and Lohan" :-?, while "They" are gobbling up wealth, manipulating markets, buying up Stock Exchanges, and planning for One World governmental and financial control ....
Compared to the sinister roaring lion implications of Globalism, Nationalism now seems to me like a house cat ...
[b]Future of Stock Exchanges ...
http://www.globalchange.com/stocktime.htm
[b]Death of all national stock exchanges ...
http://www.globalchange.com/stock.htm
[b]The New York Stock Exchange Goes Global
The Cherry On Top Of World Government ...
http://www.rense.com/general69/globalm.htm
i heard a statistic the other day that it would take $16 billion a year to feed every hungry person in the world annually, while the governments of the world spend $800 billion a year on weapons ...
i thought that was pretty evil ... :-o
I just read today, that a child living in West Africa can live on 50 US dollars per year...
The world spends 173 dollars per person on weapons...
World military expenditure in 2005 is estimated to have reached $1,001 billion at constant (2003) prices and exchange rates, or $1,118 billion in current dollars;
This corresponds to 2.5 per cent of world GDP or an average spending of $173 per capita;
World military expenditure in 2005 presents a real terms increase of 3.4 per cent since 2004, and of 34 per cent over the 10-year period 1996–2005;
The USA, responsible for about 80 per cent of the increase in 2005, is the principal determinant of the current world trend, and its military expenditure now accounts for almost half of the world total;
This means that the U.S. alone could spend 86 dollars a year on each child in West Africa.
Your brother in Christ
Jeff
You know bro Jeff ...
i've tried to watch a couple of times some investigative special reports on what's occuring in Darfur, and in many other so called third world countries where people are starving and each time i just can't get thru the programs because they just gut wrench me, and send me into anguished tirades of pleading for these folk in one instance, and Job like questioning of Him in another ... Why Lord? ... How long O Lord? ... i say out loud to Him, "Lord if i can't stand to look upon such misery how can You over all these millenia, especially now when it just seems so much worse"? ...
It's just mind boggling to me ... Many pray for God's continued mercy upon us but i don't ... i pray as John did, come quickly Lord Jesus (PLEASE!) and put an end to all this satanically inspired evil ... So much evil ... So much evil ... :-o
In the threads, "These days are evil," and "These days are evil II," I covered to some extent how a lie becomes truth. Yesterday I read an article which describes how our current presidential canidates are utilizing the same technics that Nazi Germany's Goebels used back in the 1930s...
False ads abound -- and often work
Outright falsehoods are too frequent, observers say, in the 2008 presidential campaign
IS THAT A FACT?Check the Truth-O-Meter to get the facts about the candidates' claims.
The Truth-O-Meter is a feature in Under the Dome online -- at dome.newsobserver.com -- that we hope you will find useful as the presidential campaigns heat up. It's a service offered by CQ Politics and the St. Petersburg Times to fact-check statements by and about the presidential candidates.
Distortions, stretches, half-truths and omissions are familiar features of political campaigns. But independent fact-checkers and analysts say that outright falsehoods in candidates' ads may be reaching a level not seen since TV commercials entered presidential politics more than half a century ago.
It is happening, they say, because false advertising has worked; because there are few, if any, penalties for it; and because truth becomes a relative and disputable term in the alternate reality of partisan politics -- or as George Costanza once put it on "Seinfeld," "It's not a lie if you believe it."
"They're drinking their own Kool-Aid," said Brooks Jackson, director of the nonpartisan FactCheck.org at the University of Pennsylvania's Annenberg Public Policy Center. "I've come to believe that an awful lot of the time they believe the ads. They've convinced themselves.
"We saw something that fascinated me," he said. "Several political reporters noted that Sarah Palin and John McCain continued to repeat the fable that she was a big opponent of the so-called Bridge to Nowhere. Everybody wrote about it, and they kept saying it anyway," in speeches and in TV ads.
Pushing the envelope
Political scientist Darrell West examined past patterns in his book "Air Wars: Television Advertising in Election Campaigns." He said the most dubious and misleading ads generally have come from groups independent of candidates, such as those who made the "Swift Boat" ads against John Kerry in 2004.
"This year, the candidates themselves have really pushed the envelope," West said. "The 2008 campaign has reached all-time lows in the use of misleading and inaccurate political appeals. Even Karl Rove, the architect of negative ads in previous campaigns, has complained about the tenor of this year's campaign."
"When Karl Rove says that," Jackson added, "you probably ought to pay attention."
Barack Obama has been cited for ads that quoted McCain out of context to say he would support "100 years" of war in Iraq or that said McCain would slash Social Security benefits.
Obama's campaign also aired a higher percentage of negative ads than McCain's -- 77 percent to 56 percent -- in the first wave of advertising after the conventions, according to a study by the University of Wisconsin Advertising Project.
But negative is not necessarily untruthful.
PolitiFact.com, a project of Congressional Quarterly and the St. Petersburg Times, rated 47 McCain ads and statements from "barely true" to "pants-on-fire" false, compared with 30 for Obama. McCain had six ads in the "pants-on-fire" category. Obama had one.
"McCain ... has had the bigger problem in terms of factual accuracy," West said. The Republican, he added, was the one coming up in the polls until the crisis in financial markets started this month.
Two McCain ads drew particular notice from fact-checkers. One said Obama's "one accomplishment" was "legislation to teach comprehensive sex education to kindergartners" -- misrepresenting his support for teaching them about inappropriate touching by adults, and understating his record.
The other said a "disrespectful" Obama compared Sarah Palin to a pig. Actually, he was talking about McCain's claim to be a force for change when he said, "You can put lipstick on a pig, it's a still a pig" -- using an expression that McCain once applied to Hillary Clinton's health-care plan.
Whatever the intent or term, false and negative ads often work very well, said Dr. Carolyn Lin, a communications professor at the University of Connecticut. "When it works, it works like a charm, and historically it has worked. That's why they do it.
"The unfortunate thing about political advertising," she added, "is that when you tell lies, these lies often stick, and the liars never receive any penalties."
Studies have shown that debunking falsehoods can have the backfire effect of reinforcing falsehoods by repeating them.
(end of article)
What does your heart tell you in light of Scripture? Are you part of this lie or are you a pilgram?
In Christ
Jeff
It's a service offered by CQ Politics and the St. Petersburg Times to fact-check statements by and about the presidential candidates
Well Jeff, it's a good thing we have the media keeping an eye on these deceitful politicians for us. :knockedout:
MC
