Women Preachers

I was reading through the testimony of Reverend Ruth Pugh in the "Lounge" section ("My Grandmother's Testimony") and ran across this quick justification for women being authorized as being preachers."It wasn’t long after my husband passed away, the voice of the Lord came to me and He spoke very clearly, “Go preach My Word and help spread the Gospel to a lost and dying world.” I didn’t want to do this as all my life I had thought little of the women preacher. I had told my husband many times, “A woman just has no business up in the pulpit preaching. That is a man’s job.” When we get saved the Lord will change our minds about a lot of things. I didn’t know much about the Bible when I first got saved, but later I read in the Bible where He said in the last days, “I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy…And on my servants and on my handmaidens…and they shall all prophesy.” So in the last days He has given the woman a right to preach."Now, Paul also carefully instructs that no woman should have authority over a man, and should remain quiet.For those who support women as preachers, how do you support it? I believe that women have a place in teaching, such as to a group of children, or youth group, etc. They can also "talk shop", as many women do here on SI. But I don't believe that a woman is to have authority over a man, as a preacher in the traditional makeup of the church, would.Grace and Peace...

I have some questions: Where in the Bible are women told not to PREACH? Note: I said "Preach"What is preaching? (ie, according to the Bible, not our tradition) Whom in the Bible preached?Where did they preach?What did they preach? Now ask: Should women "be allowed" to preach? Diane

For those who support women as preachers, how do you support it? I believe that women have a place in teaching, such as to a group of children, or youth group, etc. They can also "talk shop", as many women do here on SI. But I don't believe that a woman is to have authority over a man, as a preacher in the traditional makeup of the church, would.Can you qualify what you mean as a preacher? Do you mean women pastors, or do you mean that once they step behind the pulpit they are preachers? As a female I have pondered these things an awful lot - I want to be right before God and according to His word. I personally don't see were the word supports female pastors - however I do believe its possible that a female's role within church can reach beyond the sunday school and youth group. Is prophesy not considered preaching on one level - a proclamation? And I believe that the scripture does support prophesy by women in church I personally would rather not preach in a church setting (I do occasionally preach on the streets and on the door steps), but I wonder about the likes of Catherine Booth wife of William Booth (founder of the Salvation Army)- it would appear that she was anointed to preach?I was also thinking about the many women who have gone to foreign countries as lone missionaries..... I'm sure that they must have been in situations where they taught men and had authority over them as they started their work.... would it have been better for them not to have gone?I always end up leaving myself with more questions than I attempt to answer with this issue - God have mercy on us women!

Rebecca said, I believe that women can only prophesy in the church.What is the dividing line between preaching and prophesying? Anything outside of the church doesn't matter.Could you support this with Scripture? What do you mean by "anything"? Could you define the difference between preaching and prophesying, and also explain why God would permit one for women, and the other not? Use scripture to explain. Thanks. Diane

First of all, as a woman, as Raven's wife, I address the women who have spoken on this issue of 'women preaching". "THE AGED WOMEN LIKEWISE, THAT THEY BE IN BEHAVIOUR AS BECOMETH HOLINESS...TEACHERS OF GOOD THINGS; THAT THEY MAY TEACH THE YOUNG WOMEN TO BE SOBER, TO LOVE THEIR HUSBANDS, TO LOVE THEIR CHILDREN, TO BE DISCREET, CHASTE, KEEPERS AT HOME, GOOD, OBEDIENT TO THEIR OWN HUSBANDS, THAT THE WORD OF GOD BE NOT BLASPHEMED."-Titus 2:3-5So, you see, the elder women are teachers of good things - to teach the younger women good things."IT IS WRITTEN, THAT MAN SHALL NOT LIVE BY BREAD ALONE, BUT BY EVERY WORD OF GOD."-Jesus"IF ANY MAN WILL DO HIS WILL, HE SHALL KNOW OF THE DOCTRINE, WHETHER IT BE OF GOD OR WHETHER I SPEAK OF MYSELF."-JesusRegarding the Scripture Peter quoted from Joel, "AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS IN THE LAST DAYS, SAITH GOD, I WILL POUR OUT OF MY SPIRIT UPON ALL FLESH: AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY..." (Acts 2:17) I believe that "ALL FLESH" are the Gentiles as well as the Jews; not "men and women" as some would suppose. The promise spoken of in V. 39, I believe, clarifies that: "FOR THE PROMISE IS UNTO YOU AND TO YOUR CHILDREN, AND TO ALL THAT ARE AFAR OFF..."In Ephesians it is confirmed:"WHEREFORE REMEMBER, THAT YE BEING IN TIME PAST GENTILES IN THE FLESH, WHO ARE CALLED UNCIRCUMCISION BY THAT WHICH IS CALLED THE CIRCUMCISION IN THE FLESH MADE BY HANDS; THAT AT THAT TIME YE WERE WITHOUT CHRIST, BEING ALIENS AND FROM THE COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL, AND STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANTS OF PROMISE..."BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS YE WHO SOMETIMES WERE FAR OFF ARE MADE NIGH BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST."-Eph. 2:11-13 These, I believe, confirm that 'all flesh' is speaking of Jews and Gentiles alike.The "prophesying" that Peter by the Holy Spirit speaks of, is not preaching according to what is written. I would encourage all of you women to study all the prophecies of the women in the Bible, and you will see that they are speaking the utterances of the Holy Spirit. May our Lord confirm to you His Holy Word.The Holy Spirit also speaks through Paul saying: "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not (allow not) a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." I Timothy 2:11-12. So it is written. - Mrs. Nelson

This topic has been discussed a number of times previously in these threads:Women in the ministryCan women preach/teach in church?You may want to check this out also:Headcovering Q

yes it has been talked about as many older members know but then praise the lord we also now have new members, who want answers.

Here is a quote from a pastor I know:I don't believe in women preachers. I don't believe in men preachers. I believe in the Holy Ghost preaching through willing vessels.

1 Cor 14:34] Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.[35] And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.The wife should be silent in such cases where she has a godly husband who can answer what she wants to find out. Women should be quiet concerning the 'voice of the church' so to speak. I don't think this is saying that it is a sin for a woman to make a vocal sound on the church property, but rather that she is not to have a voice in church government.1 Tim 2:[11] Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.[12] But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.I would say that the woman Christian is free to do anything in service to God as long as she does not take a position in authority or teaching over a man. NOW, does the church I attend abide by this, or does my wife abide by this: NO. If I felt that God wanted me to leave my church because of this, I would. I trust that if revival comes to our church, the Spirit will bring correction, and will guide us in ALL truth.These verses are some of the many that it seems some try to explain away or re-interpret, where I see them just as Redpath saw some other verses and said, "I think it means just what it says."

It seems like we're wandering all over the place on this topic - inserting a variety of subjective comments. We are mixing this in with church authority/order, and all kinds of other stuff, (at least that's the way I see it.)Can anyone define "PREACH", according to its use in scripture? What did Jesus mean when he said, "The gospel must be preached to all nations."Mk. 13:10 Who did he expect would do this? "How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace and bring glad tidings of good things." Rom. 15:15Whose feet? Diane

Well put, Di.Any of you ladies wear headgear at church?Agree that authority over a man is risky business for a woman. but preaching the Gospel out of love is fitting, even in a church building.Just be women, even weaker vessels, and His Spirit will guide and reprove. Men are who are told to love their wives as Christ loved the church; correct me if I err, but I do not remember women being told to love their husbands anywhere.We need you! :-?

Rebecca can you clarify what you meant by sying this, "You'll laugh over the wicked too.You'll be thinking why was I ever worried about that for???"Thanks

hey all,rebecca,i don't know about asuza street, but according to the bible, the men who was in God's presence did not roll on the floor laughing, but was in fear in tremblingIsaiah 6:5 (New King James Version)New King James Version (NKJV)one of many examples:5 So I said: “ Woe is me, for I am undone! Because I am a man of unclean lips, And I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; For my eyes have seen the King, The LORD of hosts.” mloaks,you said you don't remember the bible saying for women to love husband. check out titus.Titus 2:4 (New King James Version)New King James Version (NKJV)4 that they admonish the young women to love their husbands, to love their children,

It is more than obvious that some of the best preachers of our time are women...Why shouldnt women preach? Did not woman come from man? When did God become a respecter of persons? Are we not equal in his eyes?

hi rebecca,in psalm 126 it talks about God restoring juresulem. so yes, i can see the joyous laughter in that, just like when they came out of egypt full of joy and singing. but you quoted from asuza street about being in the presence of God. being in the presence of God is different from receiving God's blessings. if we're talking about revival (asuza street) surely there was weeping and trembling first before laughter (i hope). if the lost were entering in to this fellowship in asuza street, i hope they were convicted first of their sin with much brokeness. (just like in acts when 3000 were saved).we're totally off the topic here. so maybe, if we want to continue this we should pm each other.blessing,lisa

Axe1338 wrote:It is more than obvious that some of the best preachers of our time are women...Wow! There's a statement to get a fire started if I've ever heard one! That might create some "heated" conversation.Grace and Peace...

There's a statement to get a fire started if I've ever heard one! That might create some "heated" conversation.Okay, here's some heat, or maybe just a spark to get started: Fanny Crosby, a very tiny blind lady was a powerful preacher. People lined the streets for blocks to hear her. She was in the same league as Moody and Sankey - one of the "giant" preachers. However, she is known, for her hymns and poetry - not her preaching. (wonder why?) Guess who has been writing the history books - not women usually. I wonder if that has anything to do with the slight ommission. Then there was Catherine Booth, another powerful preacher. She faught her calling, thinking that her husband should do the preaching. But, thankfully, she submitted to God's call. What about Mary Slessor, who went to the fierce jungles in Africa by herself, Gladys Alward in China, and many more mighty pioneer preachers like her who tread ground where no man dared to go. We will probably never know just how much preaching has been done by women. After all, our knowledge is a very small sphere at best. Our religious hierarchy has had a heavy control on who "qualifies" as a preacher, and what "preaching" entails. The tragedy is evident in the results. I believe that there have been countless female preachers all over the world for centuries who have not "qaualified" in man's eyes, but who were mighty in God's eyes. They dared risk their lives, counted the cost, and kept their focus on Christ. Diane

roadsign wrote: I believe that there have been countless female preachers all over the world for centuries who have not "qaualified" in man's eyes, but who were mighty in God's eyes. They dared risk their lives, counted the cost, and kept their focus on Christ. DianeI completely agree with you, just to set things straight. There are many women who are great in God's eyes.But among all the things that women are given alongside men, authority is not one of them. And that dates back to the Garden. If you don't understand why it's set that way, read Genesis again.Now, women do have a very important role, but it's not in leadership.Women have a place in service to the body, just as men have a place in leadership of it. Tip that balance, and you begin to have problems within the church, not to mention it's in disobedience to the Word.Grace and Peace...

there is a fire that we will go through and it's not of mans making. be careful of what anointing one is called by, it must be backed by the word that doesn't change. because a lot of people are jumping off a bridge doesn't make it correct. those who have gone on before have made their choice and will stand before God to answer for their actions. err on the side of God and not mans reasoning. back what you do by the word of God and Gods word will prove you right. every word we say will be put in to account and judged.Can those who have gone on before you save you in the day of judgment by their reasoning.It's not about man or woman it's about what is right. there is one power on the throne, he sets the rules and if we don't follow, we are then disquified from the greatest race we now run.

1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 1Co 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. I have coined a new saying since the old one is obviously outdated.OLD:The Bible says it, I believe it, That settles it.NEW AND IMPROVED:The Bible says it, I believe it, now lets rationalize it away. I find more and more that Christians are able to look you straight in the eye and contradict the Bible with no problem. I could understand if there was a reasonable argument or some scripture that was open to question, but for goodness sake look at what the Bible is saying. Could a womans place be any clearer? The truth is that modern culture absolutely despises this part of God's word. I would think it would be wise therefore to separate ourselves as far as possible from modern culture. I have come to realize that some gentleness is necessary in discussing this subject. It is a lot like cigarette smoking. Cigarette smoking is wrong and God hates it and his Spirit bears witness to it, but that doesn't mean that everytime you walk by a professing Christian that is smoking that you just reach up and yank the cigarette out of his mouth. There is the unseen addiction that has involved years of conditioning that requires patience to overcome. In the same way the world has been conditioning our minds not to accept the word of God on the subject of a womans role in life for a long time now. So I guess this is my gentle way of saying, hey sister, did you read those verses up there real close? I think God may be saying something that you want to hear. Everything in our modern culture has taught us that a womans place is the exact opposite of the above stated word of God. In fact our culture pretty much holds that anyone who would still hold such a belief must be an idiot. Whats to be done? Sometimes you just got to put your faith in Jesus, trust Him - that his words are good, live out what the Bible says, and let the chips fall where they may.

But among all the things that women are given alongside men, authority is not one of them.This comment begs the question: "What is authority?" Jesus showed us by example. He surrendered his authority and totally submitted to his Father. He spoke not one word except by his Father's authority. So that is our example. Ever since Constantine, countless male leaders in the church have taken the authority into their hands, rather than surrender if to Christ. And the church has been imprisoned as a result for much of its history. False doctrine has been propagated by males - probably exclusively because power has been in their hands. The argument that the church falls apart when females "take authority" is assumed without considering history. For centuries women have not had any positions of authority in religion, and males have done drastic harm through abuse of their "authority". the reason: Because Christ was not their authority. But, now we are talking about something that has little to do with preaching (proclaiming) the Good News to the world.

To preach means: to proclaim, or publish, declare, herald;In Scripture it refers to a general testimony to all with whom they came into contact.from Vine's Expository DictionaryThe phrase, "preach the Gospel" or something similar is repeated so often in Scripture that it demands our attention. It was an important activity of Christ and His disciples. He sent them out on field assignments "preaching the gospel and healing people everywhere". Lk 9:6 Where did they preach? They went to the towns, roadsides, riverbanks, homes, synagogues, marketplaces, villages, and into foreign territory. Jesus emphasized the importance of this activity when He said, "The gospel must be preached to all nations." Mk. 13:10 That is a gigantic task - much bigger than what can be accomplished on a Sunday morning in church by a very select number of professional people.Christ has given all believers the "ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself...and he has committed to us this message of reconciliation. We are therefore ambassadors, as though God has made his appeal through us." 1 Cor. 5:19,20The harvest is plentiful,but the workers are few.Ask the Lord of the harvest, thereforeto send out workers into his harvest." Lk. 10:2Although, every believer has a role in this harvest, God is the one who makes it all happen, and no one can claim credit."Neither he who plants,nor he who waters is anything,but only God, who makes things grow." 1 Cor. 3:7The Gospel continues to be preached relentlessly by those empowerd by the Spirit - whether they be the downtrodden, the poor, the uneducated, children, teens, women, men, the hungry, the beaten, repentant sinners -and most importantly - those who KNOW THE FREEING POWER of the gospel.These people "put up with anything rather than hinder the gospel." 1 Cor. 9:12 They are " not ashamed of the gospel." Rom 1:16 Through them the true gospel message is preached with a " demonstration of the Spirit's power." 1 Cor. 2:4"not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power." Again I ask, Where in Scripture are women told not to proclaim (preach) the Good News?

Here's an excellent article that was written on this topic in 1920 for consideration and prayer. It is a scripturally solid explanation in my view. When I was younger I was strongly opposed to women preachers but my views have changed. My grandmother in her testimony recited part of Joel 2 that was preached by Peter at Pentecost and cited in Acts 2:17-18 and says "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: Should Women Preach?by Sarah BishopThere are scriptures that apparently oppose women’s preaching, thus creating some argument and sentiment against women’s laboring in that capacity. Because of such sentiment they are not only hindered in a measure from doing good they could do, but also their work is made doubly hard.The following scriptures are the ones that give the above-mentioned impression: 1 Tim. 2:12-13, “But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed then Eve.” 1 Cor. 14:33-36, “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home; for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.”In the light of these statements some people honestly and sincerely believe that it is against the teaching of the Bible for women to preach. This is much harder to meet than insincere persecution. But, let us follow the scriptures on this subject through the Old and New Testaments.2 Kings 22: 13, 14 tell that King Josiah sent Hilkiah the priest saying, “Go ye, enquire of the Lord for me, and for the people” concerning the words of a book they had found. So Hilkiah went until Huldah, the prophetess, the wife of Shallum, and they communed with her, and she said unto them, “Thus saith the Lord God of Israel.” We see here that although Hulda was a man’s wife, she was a prophetess of the Lord and God spoke through her to his people.Also see Judges 4th chapter. Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, judged Israel at the time spoken of in this chapter. “And she dwelt under the palm-tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in Mount Ephraim: and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment. And she sent and called Barak the son of Abinoam out of Kedesh-naphtali and said unto him, Hath not the Lord God of Israel commanded saying Go and draw toward Mount Tabor, and take with thee ten thousand men of the children of Naphtali and of the children of Zebulun? And I will draw unto thee to the river Kishon Sisera, the captain of Jabin’s army, with his chariots and his multitude; and I will deliver him into thine hand. And Barak said unto her, If thou wilt go with me, then I will go: but if thou wilt not go with me, the I will not go. And she said, I will surely go with thee: notwithstanding the journey that thou takest shall not be for thine honor; for the Lord shall sell Sisera into the hand of a woman. And Deborah arose, and went with Barak to Kedesh.” By reading on we find that the Lord discomfited Sisera, and he was defeated, and that he fled and was killed by a woman. So God not only spoke through this woman to his people, but he through her led this great army to success.Another example of woman’s leadership is that of Miriam, Moses’ maiden sister, who was a prophetess, and who took part in leading the children of Israel out of Egypt. Aaron recognized Miriam’s part in the great undertaking and said, “Hath the Lord indeed spoken only by Moses? hath he not spoken also by us?” (see Exod. 15:20 and Num. 12:2). Note also at Christ’s birth that a man and a woman both blessed him. Simeon came by the Spirit into the temple and took Christ in his arms and blessed him. Also Anna a prophetess coming in the same instant gave thanks to the Lord and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem (see Luke 2: 27, 28, 38). A woman received the first message from Christ after his resurrection and delivered it. Mary lingered at the tomb. Christ spoke to her and said, ‘Go tell my brethren’ (John 20-17). Some may say that God spoke through women under the old dispensation, but that he does not under the new, that we have ministers in place of prophets now. Is it not true that a prophet and a minister are practically the same? The prophets of old looked forward to Christ and foretold future events mainly, while the ministers of today look back to a crucified Christ and expound his written Word—in both cases instruments used by God in speaking to his people.In regard to the new dispensation ministry we shall notice it first in prophecy. We shall call your attention to Joel 2: 28-33. “And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and y our daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions. And also upon the servants and upon the handmaidens in those days will I pour out my spirit.”Let us turn to Acts 2: 12-22: “But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice and said unto them, Ye men of Judea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and harken to my words; For these are not drunken as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day, But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy,” etc. Peter made quotation of Joel’s prophesy, and said it was fulfilled on that day. We see here that God poured out his Spirit on men and women alike that both should prophesy in the new dispensation.Acts 21: 8-9 speaks of Philip the evangelist, who had four daughters, virgins, who prophesied. In Phil. 4:3, Paul said, And I entreat thee also, true yokefellow help those women which labored with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other fellow laborers whose names are in the book of life.” So Paul had both men and women in his company.In 1 Cor. 11:4, 5 we read, “Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoreth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoreth her head,” etc. This implies however, that both men and women prophesied in Paul’s time.1 Cor. 14:3, “He that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.” We see here that “prophesy” covers the ground of preaching to an audience. Gal. 3: 27-29, “For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, . . . there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.” 1 Cor. 12: 13 reads, “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body,” etc. Verse 18, says “now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.” So we see that if women are baptized into the body, they are part of the body and have their God given functions to perform. Verses 8-12: “For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; to another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another diverse kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: but all these worketh that one and selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.” The Bible does not teach a set of gifts for women differing from those for men.“But,” you will ask, “what does Paul mean by those scriptures which say that women shall not preach?”The Scriptures nowhere state that women should not preach. But Paul told the women at that particular time to keep silent. 1 Cor. 14:33 reads, “God is not the author of confusion, but of peace.” These women must have been out of God’s order and making confusion. So Paul commanded them to keep silent that the confusion might be stopped. The men also were making some confusion, and Paul told them to keep silent in the church when there was no one to interpret (see 1 Cor. 14:28).In 1 Tim. 2:12, Paul says, “I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, . . . for Adam was first formed, then Eve.” To my mind he was here reproving those women who were usurping authority or ruling over their husbands and others, which is not consistent with the Spirit of Christ.

Hello,Though I believe that women can and do prophesy today and that it is a good thing. And though I regularly go back to read Hannah and Mary's prophecies and have gained much strength from them (some of the richest words I have read in the Bible). I am going to have to go with the word of God when it comes to women preaching or being in leadership over men. The Bible says no. Can women contribute? Yes in a complimentary way through a word, or tounge, or prophecy. But no taking charge of the meeting through preaching or teaching. The Bible says no. You just can't argue with the scripture when it speaks in such a clear way, and I don't think it is a good habit to get into - to just ignore the word because it happens not to be popular right now, But then say in 20 years when the word happens to come in line with popular thought again to readily obey it. Sometimes you just have to go against the tides.

If we can't follow Gods word as he gives it to us why even bother. to call ones self a CHRISTain. make up ones own religion, it happening every day. it's better to not have known the way of the word then to have it and not follow it. those who would be ignorant I will leave to their ignorance as it is written.

I have a friend that is a missionary in the trucking industry who is a woman. She has been involved with ministry for 30 years. Every day there are two services in the evening and a third on Sundays and holidays at the chapel that she is a chaplain at.When her and her now deceased husband went as missionaries into the trucking industry they sold everything and lived on a mobile chapel. As time went on, all of their savings was spent doing the Lord's work. When the savings was gone, the Lord has provided to continue to send money to do his work.When her husband died in the early 90's she continued to run the chapel. She could not drive the chapel but the Lord would send drivers to move the chapel to other truck stops. There were over 80 drivers that drove the chapel to new destinations in a 3 year period and the chapel was never late. At least once the driver showed up at almost the last minute to volunteer to move the chapel. The chapel is now a stationary chapel.Often people who come to the chapel are invited to bring a message or play instruments. Many people have preached for the first time at this chapel. Some are currently pastors of churches.The ministry she is involved in is truly a faith ministry. This woman of 82 years old probably gets involved in more hands on situations than any church in the area. I've seen tears wiped from grown men's eyes by Chaplain Kris. I've witnessed her buying many bus tickets, motel rooms, meals, gas, etc. for travelers and destitute people. Often there is no money yet God makes a way. She lives at the chapel and tells people to wake her up during the night, especially if there is a problem. Her personal van has been used to take many stranded people often hundreds of miles to destinations. She considers others above herself. She wants everyone to know the Lord.Once I heard Jim Keys, the man who started the first truckers chapel ministry in the US and Canada say that he wished he had 10 chaplains like Chaplain Kris. He had been asked about woman chaplains.If you ever go visit the chapel for a service, you will probably sing a few hymns, give a testimony, and hear Chaplain Kris read from the bible and talk about what the word was saying. Then there will be prayer requests and prayer. Everyone is invited, including those that don't believe there should be woman preachers. Sometimes the best preaching isn't with words but with action.In Christ,GaryE

Gary, a very touching account of a godly leader! Who can dispute that God does amazing things through those who are humble and reliant on him, regardless of gender. The people who need to have the gospel proclaimed to them are those outside the church. Of course you know that many within the church are not saved, even if they think that they are saved. They need to understand the gospel message. Or some Christians are not walking with the Lord as they should be. Some are seeking wisdom, or some kind of guidnce from the Lord. All these can be greatly strengthened by the prophetic ministry. The church needs to listen to those who are in tune to God, who can discern the Spirit for a timely word for the church, collectively, or for individuals. We must learn to recognize it, and discern it. To discard the message because the messenger is female would be to quench the Spirit. This is sin. Neither can we limit where and when this occurs.Here I paste a portion that I copied from this site: Understanding the GiftsIn its broadest understanding, the prophetic outpouring of the Spirit must be understood as the intimate revelation of God Himself to His people. More narrowly, the specific gift of prophecy in the New Testament is a spontaneous revelation from God for the situation at hand which is spoken by the Spirit through the Christian who has been given the gift of prophecy.Preaching and teaching explain the revelation of God to man; prophecy is itself revelation. I hope this is some food for thought. PS: I regard prophesy and preaching as something separate from church government - which seems to get mixed in, probably because traditionally, the same person who governs, also preaches, also teaches, also runs committees.... also gets paid, also went to seminary. .... has the highest authority, makes the final decisions. But that is no guarantee that this person is hearing from God - ie, in tune to the Spirit.

roadsign wrote:This comment begs the question: "What is authority?" Jesus showed us by example. He surrendered his authority and totally submitted to his Father. He spoke not one word except by his Father's authority. So that is our example. Ever since Constantine, countless male leaders in the church have taken the authority into their hands, rather than surrender if to Christ. And the church has been imprisoned as a result for much of its history. False doctrine has been propagated by males - probably exclusively because power has been in their hands. The argument that the church falls apart when females "take authority" is assumed without considering history. For centuries women have not had any positions of authority in religion, and males have done drastic harm through abuse of their "authority". the reason: Because Christ was not their authority. Diane,In considering church history prior to Constantine, could you give me an example of a female "pastor" or Bishop? To my knowledge there are none. The early church fathers were exactly that, fathers. In my opinion they understood what Paul wrote on the subject and accepted it.But using Christ as our example, surely he could have chosen a few women to be counted among His 12 disciples. He was not given to political pressures of the times and most certainly would have chosen some women to be in the leadership of the church, had He wanted to.Considering the fact that Christ Himself chose no women as leaders, the clear teachings of Paul, and the lack of women Bishops in the very earliest of church history, it makes me wonder if your opinion has more to do with your desires than an objective look at the facts.

Women should remain silent in the churches... [1 Cor. 14:34] Paul, who wrote this, also wrote, 'judge for yourself' so that's what I will do.It does not make sense to interpret this verse superficially in isolation from the rest of Scripture because it presents too many problems. We end up contradicting other Scriptures, ignoring the context, and applying the "letter of the Law" rather than "the Spirit". "Obeying" for the wrong reasons:Women might be eager to remain silent for ungodly reasons. They may want to avoid the embarrassment of stuttering in front of others. They may be afraid of rejection, shaming, or being accused of dominating . They might have hypocritical pride and fear man, or fear of taking risks at the root of their conviction. Women might prefer to remain silent as a way of avoiding responsibility in the Body. The silencing of women is sometimes practiced in order to perpetuate male dominance and control. Men don't want to listen to women or are threatened by them because that is humiliating to their ego. Pride is the real issue here. These people only fool themselves if they think that they have succeeded in pleasing God by silencing the women. To apply Scripture in this way is like putting a building on a sandy foundation. Discounting it for the wrong reasons:Some explain away this verse by saying that it was only meant for the culture of their time - but to me, our culture is not much different. Besides, I cannot disregard any Scripture simply on that basis. Throughout history there have been countless examples of women who led and spoke effectively for the Lord. I do not believe that God would have blessed and used them unless he called and enabled them. Applying the spirit of the law:There is a spiritual law that we must recognize and obey. When this verse is placed in the context of the entire Corinthian epistle it makes sense to me. The biggest problem in the Corinthian church was division caused by worldly thinking. The solution was to replace the worldly thinking with the mind of Christ. I will try to do follow that line of thinking. It seems that the women in that church were ignorant of God's ways. They did not seem to have an attitude that was submissive to the church body. That tells me that they likely were seeking their own selfish ambitions. Also, they were ignoring their husbands, obviously not ministering (submitting) to the ones closest to them. That is un-Christlike. These women were eager to ask questions perhaps to their favourite admired leaders. This may have contributed to the conflict over who was the best leader. The women should have humbly sought the mind of Christ, remembering the New Covenant promise that "...the Holy Spirit will teach you all things" [John 14:25] I think that Paul suggested they ask their husbands in order to expose their faulty motives. Perhaps they were too attracted to these "fine" charming men.These women were obviously disconnected from the Head, and therefore could not have been able to speak words that reflected God's thoughts. They needed to keep silent in order to avoid further disorder and damage. They needed to learn to silence their minds and listen to the Lord. Today, all who are causing division and promoting worldliness in the churches should be silenced. For example, women who have a worldly women's rights mindset and are not submitted to godly thinking should not be given an influential voice. This would foster divisive thinking. Titus speaks of men in the church who needed to be silenced. They were men who were promoting a legalistic message: "There are ... those of the circumcision group who must be SILENCED because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach." [Titus 1:11] People, whether men or women who insist on living by the 'letter of the Law ' are disconnected from the Head. They need to be silenced. This is because the promises of the New Covenant will not sit properly on the Old Covenant type of foundation. (Funny, how this pervasive problem in the church rarely gets dealt with)No human being, male or female, is ever to have a higher place of authority in anyone's life than God. Those who try to usurp the role of the Head,that is, Christ, by taking unauthorized authority are quenching the Spirit. God will eventually silence them. Everything should be donefor the strengthening of the church...in a fitting and orderly way."14:26,40] It is never fitting to inject damaging influence and teaching into Christ's body - nor is it fitting to quench the Spirit by enforcing unauthorized silence. That deprives the body of spiritually nourishing words and disconnects the Body from the Head. That paralyzes all the parts. A weak church is easy prey for Satan. The Body needs to be strong in order to stand against the pressures of the world. In our culture, TV is a powerful source of a lot of worldly influence and weakens the church. Perhaps it is the television that needs to be silenced - turned off! These days so much of the world has infected our modern day churches that it is rather a farce to think that by silencing the female half of the congregation, the church will have a better standing with God. That is the way I see it for the moment. I need to trust that the Lord will guide me when to speak, what to speak, and when to be silent. Through many experiences, I am learning that I can trust him to lead as this experience indicates: One day while I was preparing to lead worship, I prayed for direction. God told me to be a silent worship leader. I was only allowed to speak bare-bones instructions, but give no prayers and say no spiritual words. I didn't know why, but I obeyed anyway. That Sunday God rewarded my obedience with an awesome manifestation of his presence during the service. It was amazing, and caused all to marvel. I considered being silent all the time after that, hoping to invoke more blessings. However, God was not pleased with my faulty motives, and convicted my heart. I was straying. My thoughts were not God's thoughts. I must remember to keep my "mind set on what the Spirit desires." [Rom. 8:5] Only then will I really be able to "understand what the Lord's will is" [Eph. 5:17]Diane

Boy, I knew this thread would draw a crowd, and I will not personally comment on it because I don't understand the scriptures on this well enough to comment, but what a perfect example of how we all can read scriptures and come up with different views, I guess you might say If we could fully understand God He would not be God. :-)

A few years ago, while driving down the highway listening to a Christian radio station, I heard Corrie Ten Boom telling her story. Corrie had that night what I will call, carrying the goods. I was affected by hear testimony to the place of tears.When I think of Corrie I don't think so much of a person who has all the theological answers to everything. She may have been educated, I'm not sure of that but it wasn't the education that made Corrie useful to the Lord, it was how she came out of her trials that made her useful. Her Seminary was a Nazi prison camp. She went through her trials and came out carrying the goods. Often people don't.There were probably many opinions that Corrie had that I wouldn't agree with. Many of the preachers on the Sermon Index are from backgrounds that make me think that some of there beliefs I wouldn't agree with. What really matters though is, do they carry the goods. Does God have his way in their life so they are able to carry the goods. Can I hear life in there words. Does God speak to me through what they say.So, when I listen to anyone speaking, I want to hear someone that is carrying the goods. Women like Corrie carry the goods.In Christ,GaryE

GaryE,Corrie Ten Boom may have had the goods, but the question is should women be pastors?I believe Christ (by example) answers that question.

I heard a great teaching on this exact point and I agree with it. Woman have to raise the children and secure the home for the family unit, it is the most important job in our society. They teach moral values, to the children and much much more, besides the hundreds of other things that go with maintaining a home. HOWEVER, when men fail to do their job in a church, fellowship, congregation, etc. God will use who ever is willing, many times, it is a woman. There are some good teacher/ preachers. Is that God's plan? No, but as they say something is better than nothing. Worse yet is when the flesh is so demanding the woman have to go to "work" to help pay for the desires of the flesh, THAT is the real sin against our children and if you notice as the percent of woman working outside the home increases, the worse society gets.

…the question is should women be pastors? A “parable” that my minister preached yesterday helps direct the thinking regarding this question:A boy wanted to learn how to dive, and was eager to follow the correct steps, so he asked his instructor what to do. His coach said, “Just keep your head straight”. The boy listened carefully and then plunged into the water, doing a belly flop. He then asked the instructor, “Where my feet straight?” The instructor said, “Never mind that, just keep your head straight”. The boy tried again and as he came out of the water he asked, “Where my hands pointed right?” The instructor again said, “Never mind that, just keep your head straight.” I relate to this, as I have often asked God a question, and heard him say, “Never mind that………. Just………..” I have to learn to ask the right questions. I suspect that the question, “Can women be pastors?” is much like asking, “Are my feet straight?” The real question needs to be, “Is our Head in the right place? Before we will be able to obey God in the area of church government, we too need to ask, “Are we (Am I) connected to the Head?” Perhaps there are some other questions we need to ask: “Is our traditional model of church Biblical?”“Is our definition of “pastor” as we practice it the way God intended?” We have to admit that much of our religious practice is similar to the pre-reformation Roman Catholic model. Luther didn’t get it all straight, by a long shot. Woman have to raise the children and secure the home for the family unit, it is the most important job in our society. Amen, and amen! As has been said, “The hand that rocks the cradle, rules the world.” That begs the question: Since people’s mindsets are formed very early in life, shouldn’t men be the ones in the nurseries and preschool classes? Is that not where pasturing the flock can be most effective? And, since by far, most of those adults in the pews already have their life-views cemented in, what difference would it make who runs church. How many have heard great sermons for years, and have never changed……… by far, most people. One more consideration: “The alarming statistics regarding the personal lives of pastors, ex: their family breakdowns, burn out, collapse, adultery, emotional and physical illness….. etc, begs an important question: “Why?” Could it be, partially, because we have come to define that role “Pastor” outside of Biblical standard. Perhaps we have been trying to follow the letter of the law, and missed the spirit. Perhaps the real challenge is to learn how to ask the right questions, and then this gender concerns will be straightened out. Diane

Diane,I printed off that about prophesy you posted, and looked up the Scripture.It is very good.Thanks for posting it.Concerning Women Preachers, I have heard many Anointed ones, and have really been up lifted by their Message.As far as I'm concerned, the Holy Spirit can use who ever He wants to use.He needs to be in charge of our Worship Services, and in charge of us.God BlessNellie :-)

Do you know why Katherine Kuhlman had her powerful ministry? She asked God, "Why me?", and He said "I went to FIVE men to do this first, and none would do it".Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.I know Paul is hard to understand. One of the other apostles (I think it was Peter) said so. I was told that the main problem with women speaking in church was that they had been brought up in a very male-dominated society where they were taught very little about God ("keep them barefoot and pregnant") and now that they had freedom in Christ, and were allowed into the church, and were so ignorant, that they asked their husbands about what the speaker was saying. These buildings had no microphones or amplifiers, and were designed so that a whisper could be heard 50 feet away. It got kind of loud and distracting.I don't know which side is right. But when our pastor bailed out on us, the only person capable of taking the job was a woman. She said that it would be better to have a male covering, because of God's order of things, but someone had to do it until the pastor was replaced. Meanwhile, I've learned a lot from her, and she gets very accurate messages for us that she had no way of knowing if she hadn't been listening to God.jimbob wrote:

roadsign wrote:This comment begs the question: "What is authority?" Jesus showed us by example. He surrendered his authority and totally submitted to his Father. He spoke not one word except by his Father's authority. So that is our example. Ever since Constantine, countless male leaders in the church have taken the authority into their hands, rather than surrender if to Christ. And the church has been imprisoned as a result for much of its history. False doctrine has been propagated by males - probably exclusively because power has been in their hands. The argument that the church falls apart when females "take authority" is assumed without considering history. For centuries women have not had any positions of authority in religion, and males have done drastic harm through abuse of their "authority". the reason: Because Christ was not their authority. Diane,In considering church history prior to Constantine, could you give me an example of a female "pastor" or Bishop? To my knowledge there are none. The early church fathers were exactly that, fathers. In my opinion they understood what Paul wrote on the subject and accepted it.But using Christ as our example, surely he could have chosen a few women to be counted among His 12 disciples. He was not given to political pressures of the times and most certainly would have chosen some women to be in the leadership of the church, had He wanted to.Considering the fact that Christ Himself chose no women as leaders, the clear teachings of Paul, and the lack of women Bishops in the very earliest of church history, it makes me wonder if your opinion has more to do with your desires than an objective look at the facts.

{Quote} JimBobCorrie Ten Boom may have had the goods, but the question is should women be pastors?.................................................Jimbob, actually the post is on [Woman Preachers]. The question is can woman preach or/and prophesy. By the Word of God they can and do. Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call..................................................As far as the word pastor goes, in the KJV the word pastor is used over and over in the book of Jeremiah to describe the position of the one who looks over the flock or a shepherd. Strongs uses the word shepherd to describe pastor. In the same era as Jeremiah, Ezekiel uses the word shepherd to describe the same people who Jeremiah described.Eze 34:2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks? Eze 34:3 Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock. Eze 34:4 The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them. Eze 34:5 And they were scattered, because there is no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered.I believe these verses in Ezekiel are a perfect description of a pastor who is not doing the work of a pastor. Here we see that the wicked pastors didn't feed the flock, but they fed themselves. We can also see other descriptions of these wicked pastors. They didn't strengthen and heal the sick of the flock. They didn't bind up the broken or seek that which was lost. By force and cruelty they ruled the flock.Jimbob, there are many churches where the pastor of the church doesn't do all or even most of these things. Often the person behind the pulpit can be described by the words rule with cruelty and force. You say and do things my way and by my biblical interpretation or else. On the other hand, you will find in practice that often it is a woman that will visit you at the hospital when you are sick. Often it is a woman that will visit you when you are in prison. Often it is a woman that will give you a word of encouragement instead of telling you that you can't do a certain thing. And sometimes it is a woman like Mary at the garden tomb that brings men the Word, "He has Risen".So, who is doing the work of a pastor considering the words of Ezekiel and who ends up carrying the goods?In Christ,GaryE

I think we need to take care of the definition of a pastor versus a preacher. Much of the justification for having a woman as a pastor/preacher or not having one is done by wordplay rather than biblical evidence. I'll just lay it out, that you can justify anything using wordplay- just ask the cults. Grace and Peace...

Pastor: n. a minister in charge of a Christian church or congregation. - origin latin, 'shepherd'Preach: v. (1) give a religious talk to a group of people. (2) recommend to someone: my parents have always preached moderation. - derivatives preacher, n.Grace and Peace...

Now, there should be no question that there is a place for women to preach by definition of the word. The question seems to have taken the line of, and this is what I think is the root issue, should women be pastors?Grace and Peace...

Eze 34:2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks? Gary, you referred to the passage about shepherds in Ezekiel. I notice in the Lectionary, the scriptures for Nov. 20/05 are: Ez. 34:11-16, 20-24. I couldn’t help but wonder why the other verses: 1-10 and 17-19 were left out. Those are the verses you mentioned – that exposed the failures of the shepherds. It is evident that religious leaders are sheltering churches from the Biblical warnings to shepherds, and also from the reason WHY God promised to send his own Shepherd: the shepherds failed. So today, God is by-passing the shepherds by pouring out his Spirit on the people –both men and women. Now I ask: When the failure of our shepherds (predominantly male) is such a colossal issue in our churches, why is there far more debate about the gender of pastors than about the failure of pastors? Diane

roadsign wrote:Now I ask: When the failure of our shepherds (predominantly male) is such a colossal issue in our churches, why is there far more debate about the gender of pastors than about the failure of pastors? DianeMaybe they're both important issues? I think sermons by Ravenhill and others would testify to the opposite.Grace and Peace...

I have been watching this thread and have wondered about the comment that woman cannot preach.In China many of the leaders are women who as part of their leadership role, preach. China is experiencing revival. Would God bless error? God uses those who are His and are available.What about every woman who has had a call on their lives? Would God put that calling in them and anoint them for the work only for them not to be allowed to follow that calling? That would be cruel. That would be pointless. That cannot be Gods will.Many women in history have contributed to the kingdom in dynamic ways as church planters, ministers, prophets, missionaries, evangelists, teachers etcAre you saying that their contribution is wrong? Are you saying that a church that was more motivated to follow after God after hearing a woman preach, was not worth while?Are you saying that those souls that were won through a womans preach count for less just because it should have been a man?Those now assigned to hell probably wouldn't have cared if they heard the way of salvation from a woman or a man, just that someone had told them.The church in many nations is weak and ailing, revival is not present, many are left unsaved. There is a big job to be done and at this point we do not have the luxury of being able to select out a few people (just a few men) to work for the kingdom. At this point it requires every hand on deck (men women, young and old, etc) to turn the tide.Perhaps it is not about whether women are allowed to preach but about whether there are enough labourers. Are these labours living a holy life? Are they dead to self? Are they living in Gods anointing? Are they walking in obedience to every request God gives them each day. If we are walking by the Spirit we will be told what to do and when to do it and if we are obedient we will just do it. We will obey God even if at some point we are instructed to preach so that signs and wonders may follow, which they do even for women! Humbly yours, a handmaiden for the kingdom

Read the word to know Gods will. Is God so powerless that he needs any of us. yet he has set rules to run the race. only those who follow the rules qualify for the race god has set before us.At one time there were only 7.001 who had not bent their knee to this world. read the word. ask for more wisdom. err on the side of God not man man has always found a way to sin for his own reasons. adam,cain,saul(king)David... all the way to us...

Dear Diane,If that was one of my posts you referred to, I couldn't find it. It seems to be one of my posts since Ezekiel 34 has been on my mind many times in the past.When I look at Ezekiel 34, I see God speaking to the shepherds and then speaking to the sheep in a separate section of Ezekiel 34. Probably to make a post shorter and more likely to be read, I would have stuck to what God was speaking to the sheep. The last post on Woman Preachers was concerning the shepherds. so the verses used were about the shepherds and not the sheep.It seems to be correct that the shepherds, just like the kings of the Old Testament, are responsible for the lost sheep. The various leaders of the church today have the same resposiblily.James 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.Strongs interprets masters to be doctors, masters, and/or teachers. I have personally been warned by the written word to beware of what I speak or write because it is teaching. I have found out that there are times I am wrong about things therefore it is better to be quiet much of the time.Since my begininnings as a Christian, many of my opinions have changed through the years. This subject, Woman Preachers, is one of them. I can easily see where others are coming from yet I believe the Lord has showed me I was wrong in applying certain scriptures to mean that women can't preach.In Christ,GaryE